1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:07,240
Speaker 1: M how many times have you been bit by a

2
00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,000
Speaker 1: poisonous snake? I really didn't keep count. I don't know

3
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:18,720
Speaker 1: why I'm guessing. On this episode of the Bear Grease Podcast,

4
00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:24,079
Speaker 1: we've gone absolutely wild. As we discuss the original human

5
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,640
Speaker 1: fear serpents and their bikes. You'll meet a man who's

6
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,600
Speaker 1: been bit so many times by venomous snakes he's lost count.

7
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,559
Speaker 1: We'll have an enlightening conversation with the nationally recognized herpetologists

8
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,519
Speaker 1: about what he calls America's rattlesnake and what to do

9
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,040
Speaker 1: if you get bit, And we'll hear a story you

10
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't believe unless you heard it from the person it

11
00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,600
Speaker 1: happened to, a story of tragic loss and overcoming fear.

12
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 1: You're not gonna want to miss this one. What do

13
00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,280
Speaker 1: you do if you get bit by a snake? The

14
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 1: first thing I'll do is tell you that you should

15
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,360
Speaker 1: have planned to not get a fight and and I say,

16
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 1: that doesn't can't you can't tell me that? My name

17
00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,200
Speaker 1: is Clay Nukelem and this is the Bear Grease Podcast

18
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 1: where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search for insight

19
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the story of

20
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 1: Americans who lived their lives close to the land presented

21
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,320
Speaker 1: by f HF Gear, American made, purpose built hunting and

22
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 1: fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the

23
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 1: places we explore. The serpent was the shrewdest of all

24
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,760
Speaker 1: the wild animals the Lord God had made. One day,

25
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,640
Speaker 1: he asked the woman, did God really say you must

26
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,160
Speaker 1: not eat of the fruit from any of the trees

27
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,680
Speaker 1: in the garden. The Lord God asked the woman, what

28
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,919
Speaker 1: have you done? The serpent deceived me? She replied, that's

29
00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,920
Speaker 1: why I ate it. Then the Lord God said to

30
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,200
Speaker 1: the serpent, because you have done this, you are cursed

31
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,680
Speaker 1: more than all animals, domestic and wild. You will crawl

32
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,120
Speaker 1: on your belly, groveling in the dust as long as

33
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 1: you live, and I will cause hostility between you and

34
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,480
Speaker 1: the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He

35
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,680
Speaker 1: will strike your head and you will strike his heel.

36
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,919
Speaker 1: This is from the Bible, in the Book of Genesis,

37
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:56,640
Speaker 1: chapter three. This ancient text is fascinating. It highlights the

38
00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 1: long standing relationship between mankind in a very particular wild beast,

39
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,720
Speaker 1: one that has become a defining feature of the human experience.

40
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,320
Speaker 1: I believe this story has significant meaning. It holds within

41
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,119
Speaker 1: it the foundations of a human world view, and it's

42
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:20,440
Speaker 1: ripe with unbendable biological reality. Humans flip out when they

43
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:31,840
Speaker 1: see a snake, well at least most of them. Well,

44
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't really get into woods heavy till

45
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,280
Speaker 1: I was like seven, and so I created a little

46
00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 1: bucket list of things that I wanted to accomplish, you know,

47
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,600
Speaker 1: turkey hunter, deer hunter, bow hunter, and I wanted to

48
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,680
Speaker 1: get involved with a big rattlesnake, you know, one way

49
00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 1: or the other. I just I've heard so much about him,

50
00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 1: and this is my dad, Gary Nucolm in a lifetime

51
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 1: of searching for the mythical black panther inside joke from

52
00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 1: episode one, He's kept his eyes on the ground looking

53
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 1: for acorns and big rattlesnakes. His fascination with nature and

54
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 1: curious spirit tutored me into a lifelong fascination with snakes

55
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: and acorns. He was ahead of his time by proclaiming

56
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:21,400
Speaker 1: a don't kill snakes policy long before it was. So

57
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,840
Speaker 1: I'm out in the National Forward actually wasn't, as it

58
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,760
Speaker 1: was warehousing land driving around and I was on a

59
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,840
Speaker 1: real straight road and I looked down the road. At

60
00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 1: a time I thought a quarter of a mile. It

61
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,680
Speaker 1: could have been two hundred yards. But I saw a

62
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,200
Speaker 1: log across the road, and I was already anticipating going

63
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,920
Speaker 1: over that log. I thought, man, I wish I could

64
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,039
Speaker 1: get around that thing. Well, I got up there, and

65
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,440
Speaker 1: it was a diamond back rattlesnake that somebody had killed

66
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,000
Speaker 1: and then cut the rattlers off. So this was a

67
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,360
Speaker 1: snake that I wanted to get involved with one way

68
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,320
Speaker 1: or the other, probably at the town. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

69
00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,960
Speaker 1: And so you know, I'd love to have had the skin.

70
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,160
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. At that time, you know,

71
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,880
Speaker 1: you didn't hear much about that kind of stuff. So

72
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,159
Speaker 1: I drove up on it and kind of went around

73
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 1: it and pulled my jeep over and open the door

74
00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,640
Speaker 1: and looked at this sucker, and I mean cold chills

75
00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,640
Speaker 1: went up my back. I could not get that snake, man,

76
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,960
Speaker 1: I mean I just had so you were gonna get

77
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,120
Speaker 1: out and take it? I was gonna get it. Yeah,

78
00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,920
Speaker 1: I was gonna take it. And and since the guy

79
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,960
Speaker 1: had taken the head and rattlers, you know, I thought, well,

80
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,839
Speaker 1: I'll just take the hide. I couldn't touch that snake.

81
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,240
Speaker 1: But but I mean it was a big one. I

82
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,599
Speaker 1: mean it was huge. You know, it's hard to tell,

83
00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,120
Speaker 1: but i'd say at least five feet and maybe bigger

84
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,520
Speaker 1: in a whole lot, bigger than the biggest timber rattler

85
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,160
Speaker 1: I've ever seen, and I've seen one or two really

86
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,520
Speaker 1: big timber rattlers. In fact, one of them was as

87
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,800
Speaker 1: big as you'll ever see. Well, you told us that

88
00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: story when we were kids, and I could have told

89
00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,600
Speaker 1: that story word for word, just the way you told it,

90
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,960
Speaker 1: and so that that impacted me. That put a value

91
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:07,279
Speaker 1: system marker inside of my head that there's value on

92
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,920
Speaker 1: a big rattlesnake. And then how you responded to it,

93
00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, just like it. The visual look at that

94
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 1: snake just scared you. Well, you know, uh, it's it's

95
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,560
Speaker 1: almost biblical the impact it has on you. You just

96
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,800
Speaker 1: wonder how how I can see a bear in it?

97
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,920
Speaker 1: In it? You know, I respect it, but I don't

98
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,000
Speaker 1: scream and holler and jump back. But I see a snake,

99
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,320
Speaker 1: and I mean my first reaction is is automatic. It's

100
00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:43,599
Speaker 1: a verbal outcry and a movement to the rear. Let's

101
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,880
Speaker 1: talk about getting bit by snakes in the next two interviews,

102
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna hear from some snake bite victims. I'm always

103
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,839
Speaker 1: very interested in the exact detail of every snake bite

104
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 1: that I hear about. You'll recognize this first voice when

105
00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,040
Speaker 1: you hear it, and you probably won't be surprised that

106
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,560
Speaker 1: this guy has been bit by a poisonous snake. I'll

107
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 1: give you a hint of who it is. He's wearing overalls.

108
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 1: Brent Reefs, Why does it not surprise me that you're

109
00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 1: the only friend I know that has been bit by

110
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 1: a snake alongside having seen two legitimate mountain lions. Tell me,

111
00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 1: tell me about what year did you get bit by snake?

112
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,400
Speaker 1: We'll say I was nineteen years old, so it'd have

113
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,880
Speaker 1: been about nineteen. Where you tell me this story? Where

114
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,119
Speaker 1: are you at, what happened? And what kind of snake

115
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 1: was it? Give me the whole spield. Me and a

116
00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,320
Speaker 1: buddy of mine had been and we were going to

117
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 1: look at a boat, an old illuminate boat that we

118
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 1: were going to buy and get rich in the Duck Guide,

119
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 1: Business Guide and duck Hunters. It turned out good, it

120
00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 1: did it? Actually did? Actually you were a successful duck guy.

121
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 1: Carry on for about twenty six years. But I digress.

122
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 1: We had gone to look at this boat, and we

123
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 1: were going back and we were almost to the house.

124
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,880
Speaker 1: Out of nowhere, this big carpet head is crawling across

125
00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,080
Speaker 1: the middle of the gravel road. I said, stop, man,

126
00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,680
Speaker 1: that is a huge copper head. Let's catch him. He stops.

127
00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 1: We get out and I go back to the back

128
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,720
Speaker 1: of the truck. We run over him, you know, not

129
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,200
Speaker 1: we straddle him, I should say, and stop. So and

130
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 1: when the truck goes over, he calls up in the

131
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,360
Speaker 1: in the road, and so I'll go up there and

132
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,800
Speaker 1: I put my foot. I even remember what I had on.

133
00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,360
Speaker 1: I don't a pair overalls, a T shirt and a

134
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 1: pair of high top converse. Yeah. I replaced the converse

135
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: with crocs because they're easy to tie. But I would

136
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 1: I put my foot on this on his head, you know,

137
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,520
Speaker 1: and I get his head. He's just barely sticking out

138
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,240
Speaker 1: from ut of the bottle of my foot, so I

139
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,080
Speaker 1: can reach down and grab him and have control of

140
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,200
Speaker 1: his head, and I don't get bit. Well, you know,

141
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 1: there's a gravel road, and I was standing on top

142
00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,840
Speaker 1: of a rock that was beside this snake's head. So

143
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,200
Speaker 1: I really was exerting no pressure on this snake's head.

144
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 1: So when I stuck my hand down there in my

145
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: left hand for some reason, he turned around and bit me.

146
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,960
Speaker 1: And it was like, how did that happen? And I

147
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,320
Speaker 1: stepped back and I told my buddy Wayne. I said, Wayne,

148
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,960
Speaker 1: he just bait me. He said no, he didn't, and

149
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 1: I showed it to him and a little blood started

150
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,320
Speaker 1: to come out. He said, oh, my god, you're gonna die.

151
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 1: Brent went to the hospital, received two vials of anti venom,

152
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,560
Speaker 1: and stayed overnight, but was no worse for the wear.

153
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 1: He just learned a good lesson. Snake bites in the

154
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,960
Speaker 1: United States aren't all that common, at least if you

155
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,280
Speaker 1: believe statistics. Around five thousand people get bit each year,

156
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 1: and relatively few die from snake bites in this country,

157
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:58,040
Speaker 1: but not so in other places. Worldwide, they're over five

158
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 1: hundred venomous snakes, and to be accurate, you should say venomous,

159
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,439
Speaker 1: not poisonous. Estimates are hard to calculate, but it's believed

160
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,400
Speaker 1: that as many as a hundred thousand people die each

161
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,319
Speaker 1: year from snakes, many of them in Africa and India.

162
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,680
Speaker 1: They have some ridiculously deadly snakes in these places much

163
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:22,840
Speaker 1: more dangerous than America's snakes. The Russell's Viper is a

164
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,080
Speaker 1: bad boy that lives in India and Asia, and the

165
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,680
Speaker 1: puff Adder and black Mamba are the culprits in Africa.

166
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 1: Everybody has a different answer for what is the most

167
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,160
Speaker 1: poisonous snake in the world. Some say it's the Eastern

168
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,680
Speaker 1: brown snake in Australia, some say the Belcher Sea snake

169
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,679
Speaker 1: living around the Indian Ocean. Others say the inland taipe

170
00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:50,679
Speaker 1: han in Australia. It's almost impossible to nail down. However,

171
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,560
Speaker 1: the most venomous aren't the ones causing the most deaths.

172
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 1: It's a complex equation based on numbers of humans and

173
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,720
Speaker 1: how their lives over lap with snake habitat, combined with

174
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,319
Speaker 1: access to modern ana venoms, and therein lies the real issue.

175
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,520
Speaker 1: Access to ana venom in many places is a real problem.

176
00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:20,200
Speaker 1: You should research this. You're about to meet a very

177
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,120
Speaker 1: unique human who resides on the outskirts of human tolerance

178
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:29,400
Speaker 1: of the original fear. Mr. Fred Lally is an unusually

179
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,320
Speaker 1: vibrant and energetic man for his age. He looks fast

180
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,000
Speaker 1: and wired. He's a swift and accurate judge of character.

181
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 1: After decades of living on the road, you'll have a

182
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,040
Speaker 1: pretty good beat on you after making eye contact and

183
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,360
Speaker 1: exchanging a few words. I found this out when I

184
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 1: pulled off the road, walked through his yard and introduced

185
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,800
Speaker 1: myself to him. He was digging worms for a fishing trip.

186
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,920
Speaker 1: For the last fifty years, Mr Fred has made a

187
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 1: living traveling around to America a fairs, carnivals, and festivals

188
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 1: with an exhibit called Lally's Oddities. He's got a trailer

189
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,720
Speaker 1: full of head scratching and even disturbing biological rarities that

190
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,520
Speaker 1: at one time included two headed rattlesnakes and turtles, and

191
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 1: eight legged pig and the skeleton of a two headed monkey.

192
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:26,440
Speaker 1: But he specializes in venomous snakes. But first I'd like

193
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,199
Speaker 1: to make a disclaimer. I'm extending some trust to you

194
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,400
Speaker 1: all and a favor by letting Mr Fred tell just

195
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 1: a small part of his incredible life story. We talked

196
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,480
Speaker 1: for a couple of hours. The casual nature in which

197
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:45,040
Speaker 1: he handles getting bit by venomous snakes isn't normal, nor

198
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 1: is it advised to take medical advice from this section.

199
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 1: Later we'll swing the pendulum back the other direction. I

200
00:12:53,679 --> 00:13:02,440
Speaker 1: want you to meet my friend, Mr Fred. Mr Fred,

201
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 1: tell me about tell me about your relationship with snakes.

202
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 1: It really started, I guess when I was ten years old.

203
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,640
Speaker 1: My daddy died and I was a lot freer than

204
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,080
Speaker 1: to do what I wanted. That means even venomous snakes. Well,

205
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 1: the pigmy right where wasn't numerous? Copperheads were fairly numerous

206
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,920
Speaker 1: back and this is in the early forties. Well, actually

207
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 1: this was after my dad. How old are you, Mr Fred?

208
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,960
Speaker 1: Eight years old? And you where did you grow up

209
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 1: in Louisiana as specifically around Puncha Toola, Hammond, which is

210
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,400
Speaker 1: about fifty miles north of New Orleans. So you started

211
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,480
Speaker 1: catching snakes and you just liked snakes, just liked them.

212
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 1: And now you got bit when you were young though, yeah,

213
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,720
Speaker 1: I think it was thirteen. Tell me what happened. Well,

214
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,440
Speaker 1: it was a pigmy righter. I shot a squirrel and

215
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,400
Speaker 1: I was butchering it down, force feeding the little pigment ratler.

216
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,000
Speaker 1: I didn't have anything that was that he would eat,

217
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: but I do that a lot some achs. You wouldn't

218
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,400
Speaker 1: have to force speed him a couple of times and

219
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,400
Speaker 1: they realized what you put in their mouth is food,

220
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,920
Speaker 1: they'd just go and eat it. Now, the pigmy rattlesnakes

221
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 1: like a lot of rattlesnakes. They're an ornerary type. Their broncos.

222
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,640
Speaker 1: The pigmy rattlers are yeah, now, the pigmy right. I

223
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,600
Speaker 1: never had any attempt, even as a youngster, to try

224
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,720
Speaker 1: and calm them down to where you could just freehandle them.

225
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 1: And I read an article in a True magazine. The

226
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,800
Speaker 1: True magazine was nineteen forty seven, and it was about

227
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:38,080
Speaker 1: Grace Olive Wiley, the California snake Lady. Oh my god,

228
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 1: that woman didn't matter what it was, and she called

229
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,160
Speaker 1: it teams. I'd use her techniques after I read that.

230
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 1: I was probably eleven or twelve when you read that,

231
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 1: when this pigmy rattler bitch, he bit you on the hand, yeah,

232
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 1: I turned my head to get the second leg, the leg, yeah,

233
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,880
Speaker 1: and he had already sw at the first one. I

234
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 1: put it in his mouth and partially shoved it into

235
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 1: his throat. Then I'm back off, and I'm holding him

236
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 1: a lot. You're holding him by the neck with one

237
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: hand and feeding him a squirrel with your other hand,

238
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 1: and uh, as I turned my head, and like I said,

239
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,200
Speaker 1: I loosened my grip on him a lot. Well the

240
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,240
Speaker 1: thing was gone now, first bite, and we didn't Is

241
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 1: that what happened to your hand? Oh lord, No, no, no,

242
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:32,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't hardly anything. The first bite would prove to

243
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 1: be the beginning of a lifetime of handling snakes. You

244
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,800
Speaker 1: heard him mention that that finger is gone. Well he's

245
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,480
Speaker 1: missing a ring finger in a fair chunk of his

246
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 1: right hand. But the pigmy rattlesnake didn't have anything to

247
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,600
Speaker 1: do with that. Later he'll tell us what happened. Back

248
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,280
Speaker 1: to Fred, although I had anaplectic shock from that ceremon

249
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't Did they take you to the hospital? That

250
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 1: would have been in the forties, did you Did you

251
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 1: know I made a mistake? I did say the authorities.

252
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 1: It was definitely fifty three when I was bitten by

253
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 1: the snakes and they gave you some anivenum without testing.

254
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,000
Speaker 1: The doctor just panicked and he didn't test to see

255
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 1: if I was allergic to it. It's made from a

256
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,240
Speaker 1: horse serum, you know that bit and all, and there's

257
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 1: quite people are allergic to it. And I was highly allergic.

258
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 1: I mean he gave me the shot. Within thirty seconds,

259
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 1: I passed out. My poor mother saying there obviously thinks

260
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:38,880
Speaker 1: the rattle snakes doesn't kill me, you know, normally snakes. God,

261
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 1: so well, you'll probably delete all this. I got bitten

262
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 1: enough between the cotton mouths, just one copper head bite

263
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 1: and different kind of rattle snakes, quite a few of them,

264
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,760
Speaker 1: and a few other exotics. It's not nearly as bad

265
00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:01,240
Speaker 1: as even doctors, your general doctor. They think it's perhaps

266
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,680
Speaker 1: life threatening. When I say perhaps more than likely, it's

267
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,320
Speaker 1: almost because they they don't know how to treat them. Mostly,

268
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna tell me a snake that they panic. M hm, Well, yeah,

269
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 1: how many times have you been bit by a poisonous snake?

270
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 1: I really didn't keep counting, really, I mean, like like

271
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:26,639
Speaker 1: more than five. Oh, definitely, I tried to somewhat count up.

272
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm guessing twenty, give or take one

273
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 1: or two of that, right, twenty poisonous snakes. Okay, so

274
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,520
Speaker 1: you you started collecting and handling snakes when you're young,

275
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,440
Speaker 1: and you've done that your whole life pretty much, So

276
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 1: tell me about the first time you got Have you

277
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 1: been bit by a timber rattler, cane break, timber rattle,

278
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,240
Speaker 1: same thing. Yes, tell me about what happened there? How

279
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 1: hard somebody new to help me. And as I was

280
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 1: traveling setting up a shopping sounds at that particular time.

281
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,440
Speaker 1: This is in the early seventies and the cane break

282
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,640
Speaker 1: oh down in the Panhandle of Florida. Going along, You're

283
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 1: in state ten, hitting towns about every miles, going into

284
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,200
Speaker 1: different shopping center, setting up. I got bit. I'm trying

285
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,920
Speaker 1: to think which hand it was. Then I got bit

286
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 1: on my left hand, which is unusual, and it nailed

287
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,199
Speaker 1: me pretty good. It started swelling pretty good, got up

288
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 1: to about here swell and started going back down and

289
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 1: then it started retreating. Well, I mean, I'll continue work,

290
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 1: and it doesn't seem to bother me that much, really,

291
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,880
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I've had quite a few

292
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 1: bites by that time, some of them bad. It started

293
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 1: going back down, and you didn't go to the hospital. Oh,

294
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 1: absolutely not h You just kept working. Yeah, I mean,

295
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want something put out that this

296
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 1: is not bad, and I don't want to put this

297
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 1: out that you become immune to it. But your body

298
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,959
Speaker 1: does build up and a body where you ever bitten,

299
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 1: like just out in the It wasn't always when you

300
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 1: were messing around with your pet snakes. No, because Alton

301
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: the wild is my favorite thing is going out even

302
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,600
Speaker 1: catch them and turn loose. That's my golf, you know

303
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,159
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's just gonna be starting off somewhat

304
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 1: of a fun day and I'm gonna go down to

305
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 1: New Orleans to see this animal dealer. On the way there,

306
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 1: he asked me if I pick he wanted some cotton mouse,

307
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 1: And that was kind of the off season when but

308
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 1: I'm going through a swamp of thirty something miles to

309
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 1: go to New Orleans. And there's an old highway right

310
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,640
Speaker 1: next to the newer highway and that old bridges they

311
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: hang out there, and I usually anytime I go there,

312
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 1: the six of this bridge, but six of the next bridge,

313
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: and it might be a seven or eight mile stretcher

314
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: where it's real headed. Every every bridge, it just slews

315
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,359
Speaker 1: it going to the road. So I can take you

316
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 1: cotton mouse. Probably that trip down it might take me

317
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 1: two hours. But I had on good shoes and there

318
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: was one spot he didn't want any water snakes. By

319
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 1: saw this water snake. It slides into the water. And

320
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: I'm going across this old log this land there in

321
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 1: the mud and slop very little water about that deep.

322
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: And I'm up on that walking slow, and I saw

323
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to the the water. I knew where he stopped.

324
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 1: He stopped right there. So I walk pretty much that area,

325
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 1: and I saw his back sticking up out of the

326
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 1: I caught him. Didn't pay any attention is to He

327
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 1: was just getting thorn away, biting out of me. I

328
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: get by the water snakes ever really vicious about biting, biting, biting,

329
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,679
Speaker 1: And I look down, I see that broadhead of that

330
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 1: cotton mouth, and it's done bit me three times on

331
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 1: you thought you were picking up a banded water snake

332
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 1: picked up a cotton mouth, Yeah, I saw it right there.

333
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: So I just slung it. I mean, yeah, I just

334
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 1: I used to. I just slung it. I kept it.

335
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: You weren't worried about that water snake biting you, Oh no,

336
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: just you just figured he'd hit you a couple of times. Yeah,

337
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: I was getting ready of slinging. So so what did

338
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 1: you do? You got bet three times in the arm,

339
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: by in the hand, in the hand. Yeah, it was

340
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 1: in between these two things on your right hand. So anyway,

341
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: well it's on the way, maybe go to the hospital

342
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 1: and maybe have something done, because I'm still young at

343
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: this point, and I mean it was maybe a bad bite,

344
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 1: really bad, So I'm thinking about going to the hospital.

345
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: I'll go to the emergence room and sit there a while,

346
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: if you know, I'll be at least yeah, I start

347
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 1: feeling you. I wish I had time for you to

348
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,719
Speaker 1: hear the whole story, but it went like this. He

349
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: goes to the e R and asked to just sit

350
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: in the waiting room to see if it gets bad.

351
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 1: The doctors said, no way, we're giving you the an event.

352
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: Mr Fred denies the treatment for financial reasons, but also

353
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: because of his allergic nous to an event him. He

354
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: then takes a taxi to another hospital, where they allow

355
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 1: him to wait it out in the are They offered

356
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 1: to take him in an ambulance, but no, sir, not

357
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 1: Mr Fred. The taxi was a more affordable way to travel.

358
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: He never received an a venom and later just went home.

359
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 1: Mr Fred, what does it feel like to get bit

360
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: by a snake? Can you describe that to me? There's

361
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: a similarity of the same thing to all of them.

362
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: The actual physical aspect of their things going into your

363
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: skin and all. It's it's all negligible, not much to

364
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: it at all. It deals more like sometimes you catch

365
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: yourself on a brawer. Even you feel a little bit,

366
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: but it's not no big deal, you know what I mean,

367
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 1: nothing big at all, and or wasp. When it stings,

368
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: you have instantaneous hot, searing pain sometimes, especially the big

369
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: old red wah. Well, they put a wall upon you.

370
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: Only one time that I experienced something like that. I

371
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: got bit on this thumb here. It's messed up a

372
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 1: little bit thinking. They doesn't grow straight, it bends over

373
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: and I've got different sensations to this day. That's messed

374
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 1: up from nerve damage. It put a thing in onto

375
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: there and gave me a pretty good wall. Oh it hurt.

376
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: So typically, what does it feel like on a normal

377
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: snake bite? Like you you feel the impact, but then

378
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: it kind of just moves up your arm tensions swelling.

379
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: The swelling starts producing a lot of uncomfortable pain, deep

380
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: aches or setting in. I know, it's kind of gradual.

381
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: It kind of just starts creeping up your yeah, yeah,

382
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: a lot of swelling, yeah, and then discoloration some have

383
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: more discoloration than the others. I'm not sure what causes that.

384
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: Why don't why don't you tell me specifically what happened

385
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: to your hand? Now? Which what kind of snake did

386
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: that bite? A big Western diamond back a little of

387
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: five maybe, and they had to cut off on your fingers. Yeah,

388
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: and I told him going to cut this finger off

389
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: too at the time. See this finger was ruined one

390
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: from another bite. Can can you tell me all the

391
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: different types of snakes you've been bit by? I mean,

392
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 1: let's just walk through them. Well, like I said, cotton mouth,

393
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: copper head, rattle snake, even the coral snake. It was

394
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: a drawd bite. I don't think I got one bitter

395
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: down on Karma. And then the Pope's tree vipers from

396
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: Asia they called two step Charlie. During the Vietnam War,

397
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: that was a very popular thing. They were talking about

398
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: two steps Charlie. They've seen guys and get bit and

399
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: money to fall over dead. It's about like a copper

400
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: head bite. And so that's I think that's five snakes,

401
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: five different snakes. And then a banded Egyptian cobra. Yeah, yep,

402
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 1: I just said banded Egyptian cobra. Mr Fred went into

403
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: an elaborate story on getting bit by this exotic serpent

404
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 1: and not getting any medical treatment, but I simply couldn't

405
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: fit it into the podcast. I'll tell you about at it.

406
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: On the render. They were again, I got a dry

407
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: b from a king cobra. Only one thing, but it

408
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: opened my finger up, literally to the bone. Yeah, he

409
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: just said he got dry bit from a king cobra. Okay,

410
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: let let me let me go through them again. Then

411
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: copper head watermarks and multiple types of rattlesnakes, pig me

412
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 1: timber rattler, diamondback and u and then that pit viper,

413
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: Pope's tree viper, then a coral snake, then a banded

414
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: Egyptian cobra, and then a dry byte of a king cobra.

415
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: So that's seven species of poisoned snakes you've been bit by. Yeah,

416
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: but I didn't get any of thenom from the coral

417
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: snake either. Okay, that's right. I'd say that's a pretty

418
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: good resume there for snake bites. Well, hey, I mean,

419
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: you're still alive at eighty years old and in good health, folks.

420
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: I want to say a few things. Every state has

421
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: different laws regarding captive snakes and taking them out of

422
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: the wild. Much of Mr Fred's work was done decades ago. Secondly,

423
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to minimize or give anyone the idea

424
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: that they shouldn't go to the hospital if they get bit.

425
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: But I feel like Mr Fred has earned the right

426
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: to share his story, of which he didn't ask to tell.

427
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: I pride one more thing on Mr Fred. He has

428
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: the utmost respect for snakes and cringes at their mistreatment

429
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: or their senseless killing. Lastly, we're about to nerd out

430
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: into some snake biology and it's fascinated. But if for

431
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: some weird reason you don't like that, I will ask

432
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: a favor of you, and that's to listen until the

433
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: very end. The last story told on this podcast you

434
00:26:42,320 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: will never forget. Dr Chris Jenkins is a herpetile just

435
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: with a long list of accolades. Aside from being a

436
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: North Georgia Turkey and deer hunting Jedi master, he's the

437
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: executive officer of the Orient Society, which works to conserve

438
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: critical habitat for imperiled reptiles and amphibians. He's also the

439
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: host of Snake Talk podcast, which you should check out.

440
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask him about snake bites, timber, rattlesnake biology,

441
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: and what to do if you get bit Meet Dr

442
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: Chris Jenkins. Dr Chris Jenkins, I have always been fascinated

443
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: with snakes, and specifically rattlesnakes. In EO. Wilson's book titled Biophilia,

444
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: which is roughly translated into Love of Life, he suggests

445
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: that humans have been so successful on planet Earth because

446
00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: of our fascination with living creatures and living animals, and

447
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: that fascination has a pendulum, and that pendulum would go

448
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: from like us loving puppies and quala bears all the

449
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: way to a deep and almost irrational fear of snakes.

450
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: Like we have this incredible relationship with snakes as humans

451
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,479
Speaker 1: and have for like a long time. Why do you

452
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: think people are so afraid of snakes? Well, the first

453
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: thing I'd say is that while we as humans maybe

454
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: want to put snakes into another category of animals or

455
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: another category of nature, I have spent my entire career

456
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: and the one thread that I see that goes throughout

457
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: everyone I encounter is a fascination. And I always like

458
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: to say nobody's indifferent to a snake. Let's say you've

459
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: been walking the same trail near your house every day. Uh,

460
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: you see a gray squirrel. You might see thirty gray

461
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: squirrels on that walk. You might get to the point

462
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: where where you just kind of you don't you don't

463
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: even notice that particular squirrel. But snakes are different. There

464
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: are very few humans on this planet that would be

465
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: moving and they pass a snake and they would do nothing.

466
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: It just it just like just brings out these very

467
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: intense emotions and they can range widely. As you mentioned,

468
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: they can be excitement. Are there other animals that do

469
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: the same thing. I would think so, and they can.

470
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: They typically classify they have some similar aspects to them, like,

471
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: for example, things like sharks, spiders, maybe some of the

472
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: large mammalian carnivore animals. People notice those. And to get

473
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: to your question about fear, I really do believe that

474
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: it is a combination of genetic aspects that are in

475
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: our DNA that have allowed us to survive so many

476
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: years by avoiding predation, combine with a huge amount of

477
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: education or learning, you know, so on that that genetic side.

478
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: While there are very few snakes on the planet that

479
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: could eat a human, now it does happen, but incredibly rare.

480
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: You know, historically there would have been very very large

481
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: snakes on the landscape that fed on primates. There's this

482
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: snake called Titana boas and you'd be amazed to see

483
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: how large this snake is. And so they're there, and

484
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: there are studies that are confirming this, that there is

485
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: a component of us where we understand that this could

486
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: be a predator. But the more interesting part, and I

487
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: do think that the bigger part is the learned part.

488
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about the foundation of

489
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: that fear ultimately, is that a human would be bit

490
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: by a poisonous snake. Right, let's talk about the probabilities

491
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: of being bit by a snake, and as we go further,

492
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: I want to specifically talk about rattlesnakes. What are the

493
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: chances in the probability these of being bit by a

494
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: snake here in the United States? You know, so first

495
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: I would say that it varies so much across the country,

496
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: depending where you are, the density of people, the density

497
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: of snakes, types of snakes. But in general, if you

498
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: take a state like Georgia where I live, that is

499
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: a um you know, we have fairly high snake diversity

500
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: of six species of venomous snakes. We certainly have multiple

501
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: venomous snake bites a year. Even in the county that

502
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: I live in, where we only have timber rattle snakes

503
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: and copper heads, we usually have at least one, if

504
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: not multiple snake bites per year. However, I will say

505
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: you don't First of all, you don't want to get

506
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: a snake bite, a venomous snake bite. They're all different,

507
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: the venoms different, but it can make you very sick

508
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: and can kill you. But if you just look at

509
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: the raw probabilities in the United States of your chances

510
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: of dying from a venomous snake bite, they're much much

511
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: low or than than so many other things you do.

512
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: The truth is, if you're going to go to a

513
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: nature preserve and you're going to go for a hike,

514
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: the most dangerous thing that you did was drive there.

515
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: You have a much higher probability driving there. And most

516
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: people are not petrified to the point where they wouldn't

517
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: go in the woods because they had to drive the

518
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: I mean, there are other notable things. You know. Your

519
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: chances of dying safe from a stinging insect is much

520
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: greater than dying from a rattlesnake bite in the US,

521
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,479
Speaker 1: or if you want to go ride a horse. Notice

522
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: he didn't say mule. Very interesting, and those things people

523
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: are probably you know, have some fear around horses, or

524
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: have some fear around stinging insects, but it's not the

525
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: type of horrific fear that might keep people out of

526
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: the woods that that snakes bring about. Dr Jenkins, can

527
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: you tell me about, on average, how many people in

528
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: the United States die of snake bites each year? Well,

529
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: I'd answer that first by comparing the number of people

530
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: who get snake bites to the number who die, and

531
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: so thout there are thousands of venomous snake bites in

532
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: the United States every year, which might sound like a

533
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: big number. That's actually not very big if you compare

534
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: that to some other types of injuries you might incur

535
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: in a typical year. It's only a handful of people,

536
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: but it's certainly less than twenty, and it might be

537
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: much less than that. I would suspect less than ten

538
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: your average die from a venomous a wild snake bite.

539
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: So if you think about that, your chances are incredibly low.

540
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: That number of people. More than that number of people

541
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: die every day in vehicle accidents million people in the

542
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: United States, and less than twenty die per year from

543
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: snake bites. I mean, you have a higher probability of

544
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: death by almost anything. What's so interesting about that is

545
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: that our fear of snakes and our fear of dying

546
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: from snake bite it is like very, very large. It

547
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: feels like in broad society compared to the actual data

548
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: of the possibility of you dying from a snake bite.

549
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: That's some really good marketing from the from the snake

550
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: bite people. I guess maybe the snakes themselves. They've marketed

551
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: their bites pretty good to make us this fearful for

552
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: this long man. Yeah, no, that's that strong marketing campaign

553
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: for snake bites. And I don't want to minimize despite

554
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: a low number of deaths. Still, you know you don't

555
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: want to receive a venomous snake bite. I mean, it

556
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: can have long lasting impacts on your life in a

557
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: variety of ways. It can leave you maimed, you can

558
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: lose you can survive but potentially lose certain limbs or

559
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: have other long term problems. So, but your chances of

560
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: dying are very low. I want to specifically talk about

561
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: the timber rattler that is in the United States before

562
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: we dive into that. How many species of rattlesnakes are

563
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: there in the United States. Well, like all fields of biology,

564
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: this is changing rapidly. But let's just say that there

565
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: are about thirty two species of rattlesnakes, some of them

566
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: going all the way down into South America. So what

567
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: I'm calling a timber rattler, and I'm kind of just

568
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: using that as just the naming convention that I've heard

569
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: people around here use their whole lives, velvet tells, timber rattlers,

570
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: cane brake rattlers. What what is the scientific name of

571
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 1: that species? Yeah, I mean a common name, as you said,

572
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: is just that it's a common name. The Latin name

573
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: for a timber rattlesnake is Crotalus horridus. You're right when

574
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: you mentioned cane brake. People think of cane brakes sometimes

575
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: as a different species, but cane brakes and timber rattle

576
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: snakes are actually the same species. But timber rattlesnakes can

577
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: look very very different depending where in the country that

578
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: you find them. Describe the geographic region that the timber rattlers.

579
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: In timber rattle snakes are an amazing snake and that

580
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: I like to call him a merry Ricca's snake, in

581
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: that they are really one of the most wide ranging species.

582
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 1: You can find them. Historically they're now gone from Maine,

583
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: but historically you could find them in the northeast up

584
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: to Maine, and then they come down all the way

585
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: south into northern Florida, and they go west into Texas

586
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: and then back up north into kind of the northern

587
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: Midwestern states states like Minnesota and Wisconsin. So really wide

588
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: ranging snake lay by far overlap with human populations, much

589
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: more than than any other snake in the US um

590
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: and then they've we've just used them as as such

591
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: a symbol, the symbol of a rattlesnake on a don't

592
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: tread on Me flag. Are there rattlesnakes on other continents.

593
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: There are rattlesnakes on on South America, you know, through

594
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 1: Central America and into South America. There are many vipers.

595
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: So rattles snakes are a member of the family vipara

596
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: day and there are vipers on most continents in the world.

597
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: And it's actually thought that vipers came over the Burringian

598
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: land bridge, you know up in where we think of Alaska.

599
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: Like a lot of other animals shout out to Josh

600
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: spilmmakers land bridge, mustache separ grease render inside joke, you're

601
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: all invited. And then really diversified into the rattle snakes.

602
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: And we think they did that somewhere kind of in

603
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: the southwestern US and Mexico, so where they only North

604
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 1: and South America are the only places that have rattle snakes. Yeah,

605
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: they are a new world group of species. They do

606
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: run some islands still within North America, you know, islands

607
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: off of you know, say the West Coast and in

608
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: the Gulf and the Caribbean. But in general, uh, you know,

609
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: they are a new world species. Talk to me about

610
00:37:54,440 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: the rattle Dr Jenkins, what biologic advantage does that attle rattlesnake? Well,

611
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: it's thought, of course, we don't know exactly. If we

612
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: could interview them this this biology thing would be a

613
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: lot easier. But no, with the rattle. One of the

614
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: theories is that these animals evolved from these some of

615
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: these vipers that came over from Asia. They evolved in

616
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: a landscape where there are a large of large ungulates,

617
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: things that might step on you. But the idea is

618
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: that the rattle is really a defensive mechanism. It's a

619
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: warning if a bison's near you or humans coming around.

620
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: There's some interesting kind of examples off of islands off

621
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: of North America where rattlesnakes have moved to those islands

622
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: many many, you know, thousands of years ago, and on

623
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: those islands there are no large mammals, no predators, and

624
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: over time, while those animals are still rattlesnakes, they no

625
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: longer have a rattle, so they were just trying not

626
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: to get stepped on. I'm no scientist, Dr Jenkins, but

627
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, in this theory makes sense to me. I mean,

628
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: clearly they're using it as a as a warning, you know, yeah,

629
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: I mean that's some other good evidence is is the

630
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 1: things we haven't seen the rattle used for our So

631
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: for example, they don't use the rattle in luring prey

632
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: like a feeding type, or you know, the males don't

633
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: rattle to attract females, and if that was the case,

634
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: you would expect female rattlesnakes not to have them. Let's

635
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: talk specifically about timber rattlesnakes. I grew up with timber

636
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: rattlesnakes and just had a massive fascination with them. You've

637
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: you've described this large geographic area where timber rattlers are.

638
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: Are there places inside that jurisdiction where there are more

639
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: than others? Can you tell me where most of them are?

640
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 1: The timber rattlesnake First of all, one of the reasons

641
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: it's been so successful is it's been able to get

642
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: into very extreme environments. So you do find them at

643
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: high elevation. I've seen them over five thousand feet here

644
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 1: in the southern Appalachians, and they go all the way north,

645
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, I mentioned uh, you know Maine. Historically they

646
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: used to be in Ontario. But there are certain places

647
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: where they're doing relatively well. I'd say one of the

648
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: hot spots for timber rattlesnakes were probably a good numbers

649
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: still remain, good densities still remain would be kind of

650
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: the central Appalachian region, so places like Pennsylvania, they're Virginia's um.

651
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: The other place that they're probably doing really well would

652
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: be kind of in that cane break part of the

653
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: range down here in the southeast, down in the coastal plain.

654
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: Um in many places in the coastal plain they're doing

655
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: really well. But there are other places. I mean, I

656
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: think in Arkansas, for example, in the Ozarks, and I

657
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: think they're doing relatively well. They're probably comparable to this

658
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: Southern Appalachian region. On the flip side of that, there

659
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: are places where they're doing very poorly. And those are

660
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: typically places at the fringes of the change. So if

661
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 1: you go to the northern midwest Minnesota, Wisconsin, or you

662
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: go to the northeast, they're gone from Maine, They're gone

663
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: from Rhode Island. There's one population left in New Hampshire, too,

664
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: left in Vermont, a handful in each of Massachusetts and Connecticut,

665
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: so they're up there. They're one of the most endangered species.

666
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: So if you were looking at a mountain in the

667
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: Southern Appalachians, is there a place on that mountain where

668
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: you would go to find a snake? And I'm not

669
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: suggesting someone go try to find one, but just but

670
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: are there places on the mountain like where I see

671
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: rattlesnakes in arkansass and some of the roughest, rockiest, most

672
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: remote country. I would assume that is because there are

673
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: populations of snakes in that remote country that haven't been

674
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: is harassed by humans, you know that hadn't for the

675
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: last two fifty years been killed by humans that have

676
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: seen them, and they've kind of you have these hubs

677
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: and these like more remote areas, rough rocky is that

678
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: is my anecdotal observation hold true? Yeah, I would think

679
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 1: it kind of course scale you certainly would be correct,

680
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: But at that micro scale that you mentioned in areas

681
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: where they've disappeared from or in very remote areas, they're

682
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 1: gonna need some of the same things. And the other

683
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: important thing to know about rattlesnakes. I always like to

684
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: tell people rattlesnakes have a biology. To people kind of

685
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: minimize them to like an environment where they don't think

686
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: much about what they do. But rattlesnakes do very particular

687
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: things very certain times of the year. And so you're

688
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: seeing them in very rough, rocky country. So there are

689
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: certain times of the year that that timber rattlesnakes will

690
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: often focus on those types of environments. Those are oftentimes

691
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: but not always, where they will have their overwintering dens

692
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: are in fissures and rocks where they can go underground

693
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: and escape cold temperatures. These are areas where the females

694
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: go to raise their body temperatures and preparation for giving birth.

695
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: Those are often the areas that animals who are gonna

696
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: do anything like physiologically challenging, meaning like if they're going

697
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: to shed their skin, or if they've eaten and they

698
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: need to digest, they'll oftentimes go to rocky areas um

699
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: And that's to raise their body temperature because they don't

700
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: maintain a constant body temperature like we do. But the

701
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 1: other piece of that is an observer bias, meaning that

702
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: you know when you go to these rocky areas. First

703
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 1: of all, it's a type of environment that you might

704
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: key in on more um than any particular little grove

705
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: of oak trees. So I can guarantee you though over

706
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: your years you've walked by so many rattlesnakes out in

707
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: these hardwood forests and just never known them. They're they're

708
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: much much harder to see. I've had snakes that have

709
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 1: radio transmitters, so I'm following them. I know where they are,

710
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: and I'm standing there in an open oak forest and

711
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I've circled this area and I know that

712
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: there is a rattlesnake within like five yards in front

713
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,959
Speaker 1: of me, and I have a technician standing five yards away.

714
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: We're looking at each other. We know the rattlesnakes in

715
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 1: front of us, we cannot see it. And then all

716
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: of a sudden, just like appeared, and I just realized

717
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,479
Speaker 1: that the snake was sprawled out full lengthwise in front

718
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: of us. And I've seen tens of thousands of rattlesnakes

719
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: in the wild. My point is is that there is

720
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 1: an observer bias as well. Let's talk about rattlesnake camouflage.

721
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: Your story is fascinating that you could be that close

722
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: to rattlesnake and not see it, and I think many

723
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 1: of us have experienced that. Tell me about rattlesnake camouflage,

724
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: and this is really across many species. But timber rattlesnakes,

725
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: I think of them as a hardwood associated rattlesnake. Those

726
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: hardwoods dropped their leaves and and just produced this kind

727
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: of canvas of a forest floor with just an incredible

728
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: complexity of texture of color. And so a rott dottle

729
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: snakes body looks like that color wise. And also interestingly,

730
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: snakes have different types of scales, and rattlesnakes have what

731
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: are called keeled scales, which means each of their scales

732
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: has a little bit of a ridge on it, like

733
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: a keel on a boat. That texture on their body

734
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: is you know, one of the functions that is likely

735
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: to help with the camouflage. It's like they're wearing a

736
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: Gilli suit as opposed to you know, just a regular

737
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: camo shirt. It's like it's like three D camo. I mean,

738
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, like light hitting it. If there's a ridge,

739
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: it means that there's two different angles on a single scale,

740
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: which I think would create a visual nuanced difference in

741
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, three D Gilly sue. Wow, that's fascinating.

742
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 1: I mean, rattlesnakes make their living not being discovered, whether

743
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: they're hunting, you know, they're they're sitting weight predators. They

744
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 1: don't want you know, say visual prey to see them.

745
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: They don't want potential predators to see them. They don't

746
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: want people to see them. You know, you might walk

747
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: right by one and they would never make a noise.

748
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: If you discover them, they're probably going to use that

749
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: rattle that we have talked about, this warning system, and

750
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: they're going to try to slowly move away. And the

751
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: last thing they'll do is if you try to touch

752
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 1: them in some form or get close enough, is they'll

753
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: bite you because you have to almost touch or step

754
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: on a rattlesnake. That's that's one of the big myths

755
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: that that these animals are leaping through the air and

756
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: chasing you down. Um. A rattlesnake typically bite and this

757
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 1: is with the perfect perch, you know, great kinetic energy

758
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: built up and something to push against. You know, they're

759
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: they're striking half to a third of the length of

760
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: their body, so you almost have to touch them to

761
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 1: get a bite. You said a phrase there that they're

762
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 1: sit and wait predators, and that's the perfect lead into

763
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: my next question is how do they hunt and what

764
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: and what do they eat? So how do they hunt?

765
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: What do they eat? Well, most rattle snakes and timber

766
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: rattlesnakes eat rodents. As they get larger, they'll typically eat

767
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: larger rodents. So you think of things like your little paramiscus,

768
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: your kind of forest mice, squirrels, chipmunks, um, rodents like that. Um,

769
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: But they're not active predators in the sense they're not

770
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: chasing these animals down. What they do is they travel

771
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: through the forest and they use their tongue. You've probably

772
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: seen snakes flicking their tongue. What they're doing is they're

773
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: picking up chemicals in the environment and running them across

774
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: an organ that they have in their mouth. And you

775
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: could almost think of it like a really really intense

776
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 1: sense of smell to the level where rattlesnake moving through

777
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: the forest tongue flicking is probably like, oh, there was

778
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 1: a chip monk here probably three or four days ago,

779
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: but a mouse came through here an hour ago, and oh,

780
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: a human stepped right there four days ago, like really

781
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: fine tuned chemical reception type mechanism. And what they do

782
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 1: is they go through the forest and they use those

783
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: chemicals to decide where to hunt. So you have to

784
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: think that they're looking for places that rodents travel frequently.

785
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: So you might think of a rattlesnake at the base

786
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: of a tree where squirrels are frequently going up and

787
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: down a down log, that are rodents running a clock

788
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: cross or just other trails, And then they set up

789
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: on these trails and they get in kind of a

790
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: hunting position where they're coiled up and kind of primed

791
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: to strike, and then they use the pits. We haven't

792
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: talked about it, but these are pit vipers um and

793
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 1: and so they have kind of if you look at

794
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: their face, they have a nostril, but they have an

795
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: extra hole there which is the pit. And this pit

796
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: essentially allows them to sense heat, which allows timber rattlesnakes

797
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: to do a lot of foraging at night. But the venom,

798
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: it is a fine tuned chemical cocktail that rattlesnakes have

799
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: for feeding. First thing it does is it allows the

800
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: snake to kill its prey without having to rest soil

801
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: with it. It's the difference between you being able to

802
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: shoot that elk from a hundred yards with your thirty

803
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: six as opposed to you going in and trying to

804
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: kill it with a tomahawk, and you have a much

805
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: greater chance of getting injured by that elk. They just strike,

806
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 1: inject the venom and they get away from that animal,

807
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: and then the venom kills the prey. You know, Then

808
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: the prey runs off and the venom kills it, and

809
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, the snake then has to find that in

810
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: a maze of rodent chemicals all through the forest, and

811
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: it uses the chemical signature of its own venom to

812
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 1: track down prey that its venom is killed. And then finally,

813
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: most rattlesnake venoms, and certainly timber rattlesnake venom is then

814
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: also used in digestion and that helps them eat really

815
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: large meals compared to their body. So while their stomach

816
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: and their digestive system is digestive from the outside, the

817
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: venom is breaking down and digesting this rodent from the inside.

818
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 1: The positive side of that as well is that a

819
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: three and a half a timber rattlesnake his venom is

820
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: not designed to kill a hundred and eighty pound human.

821
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: If if we're continuing to build these like rational ideas

822
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: that make us not afraid of snakes. You know, you

823
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: have this idea you get bit by a snake, you

824
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: know you got an hour before you're dead, And not

825
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 1: to minimize it in any way, but like that venom

826
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: is designed to kill a squirrel, yes, I will say,

827
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: and that timber rattlesnakes, of the venomous snakes in their

828
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: range in the east are fairly toxic. Say you know,

829
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: a timber rattlesnake bite on average would be a much

830
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: more much much more significant bite than say, like a

831
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: copper head or cotton mouth some other venomous species you'd find.

832
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: What what about the age of snakes, Chris, It takes

833
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: a it takes a snake a female, how long to

834
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: become reproductively active? And how long can a snake live? So,

835
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: first of all, rattlesnakes, timber rattlesnakes in particular, live much

836
00:50:55,480 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: longer than most people might imagine. There are timber rattlesnakes

837
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: alive today that we know are over fifty years old,

838
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: and we don't know what that upper ceiling is. Like

839
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: you mentioned female rattlesnakes, they can take and kind of

840
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 1: extreme environments, meaning like really far north, like high latitude

841
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: or high elevation. These snakes can take eight nine years,

842
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 1: ten years maybe to reach sexual maturity. And then the

843
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 1: females don't give birth every year. They can go to

844
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: three four maybe in some cases five years in between

845
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: a pregnancy. And so you can have some female rattlesnakes

846
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: that you know, they might only have two or three

847
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: opportunities to have a litter of young snakes, and they

848
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: don't have many snakes. They're not some snakes have hundreds,

849
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: but rattlesnakes. Timber rattlesnakes are not like that. You know,

850
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,720
Speaker 1: they'll have somewhere. You know, it could be five somewhere

851
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 1: in that ballpark. They have evolved to have a very

852
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: long life too. For a female rattlesnake to replace herself,

853
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: she has evolved a life history strategy that requires her

854
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: to live a long time. That's fascinating, fascinating. That's a

855
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: great way for me to ask you. The question at hand,

856
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 1: Dr Jenkins, is what do you do if you get

857
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: bit by a snake? We we run on this default

858
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,959
Speaker 1: mechanism that we think we know what we would do.

859
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I live my whole life in snake country,

860
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: So I mean anytime I leave my house and it's

861
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: above sixty degrees sixty degrees, there's a chance and I

862
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 1: get bit by a snake. And apparently I feel like

863
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: I'm competent enough to handle that. I don't know if

864
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: I ever not. I've never been bit by by poisonous snake.

865
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: Tell me what you do. Clay Nucomb is out in

866
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: the mountains by himself, coon hunting on a warm fall night,

867
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 1: and I get just slam dunk bit on the calf

868
00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: by big four ft timber rattler. I'm three quarters of

869
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,240
Speaker 1: a mile from my truck, I'm alone. What do I do?

870
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 1: I won't go into it in great depth, but the

871
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: first thing I'll do is tell you that you should

872
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 1: have planned to not get a bite. And and I say, then,

873
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: can't you can't tell me that? I will? I will.

874
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 1: I will get to what to do in that situation.

875
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: But I will say that the most effective way to

876
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: deal with a snake bite is to not get one.

877
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 1: They're already very rare. And there's a few very simple things, um,

878
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,839
Speaker 1: that you can do. And you know, as a sportsman

879
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: or somebody you know, say a wildlife biologist or a

880
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: forest or somebody who spends a lot of time potentially

881
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: coming in contact with snakes, I would invest in a

882
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: pair of snake gators. Many sportsmen wear them anyways, Um,

883
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: if you're in snake country, you should take that precaution.

884
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: The other precaution you should take is have a plan.

885
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: Most outdoor people have a plan for different things. So

886
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: what to do if you are back in the others

887
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: are and you get that bite. Perhaps the best way

888
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: to start that is what don't you do? So there

889
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: are so many things that people have been taught to

890
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: do with snakes. You know, you could still go buy

891
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: snake bite kits at Walmart that have like a razor

892
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,959
Speaker 1: blade in it, for example, to cut and suck. Don't

893
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 1: want to do that. Myths about drinking alcohol, about using cold,

894
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: about using electricity like a little shocking device on the bite,

895
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: none of that is helpful, and in fact, much of

896
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: that can actually have a negative impact. The other thing

897
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: I would say is that about twenty five to fift

898
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 1: of all venomous snake bites are dry, which means they

899
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: don't put venom into you snakes. Snakes can control or

900
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: meter whether they deliver and approximately how much venom they deliver,

901
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: but you have to you have to treat it like

902
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: it has because you don't know, and a timber rattlesnake

903
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: could be life threatening. The two key components to to

904
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: dealing with a snake by in almost any situation are

905
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 1: very intuitive. Their transportation and communication. You know, you could

906
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 1: back in the ozarks quite a ways, and if you

907
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 1: get a rattlesnake by it could potentially kill you. You You

908
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: need to have a way to call for help, and

909
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: if you can, in most situations, have other people come

910
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: to you. So in this planning I'm talking about, you

911
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: don't don't walk out it if you could be if

912
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: someone could drive to you, don't walk out. You have

913
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: this venom in you. The venom is going to be

914
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: pumping through your body and you know, so you're probably

915
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: increasing the chances that that venom gets to things like

916
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: your lungs and your heart, things that could kill you

917
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: and there. But there's a trade off. You know, if

918
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 1: you completely isolated, say put on a tourniquet, then you're

919
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: gonna very likely lose that limb that you have tourniqueted off.

920
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: So I would say I would rarely use a tourniquet,

921
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't completely write that off because you know

922
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: in Australia, know they use tourniquets Oftentimes. You would have

923
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: to be really remote a long ways from UH medical

924
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: help and think that you have a really serious venom

925
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: dose to to ever think about applying a tourniquet. Time

926
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,439
Speaker 1: is everything with a venomous snake. By the longer you wait,

927
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: the more of those molecules are going to be attached

928
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: to your blood cells, and the more damage you're gonna have. Basically,

929
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: you need to get out of the woods as fast

930
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: as possible, but with the least energy of the person

931
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 1: that's bit being expelled. If I was in the Cranberry

932
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: Wilderness in West Virginia, very large wilderness, and I'm in

933
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 1: the middle of it, and I get a bite, and

934
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: I know it's going to take me a couple of

935
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: days to get out, I think I have a serious bite.

936
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: I am going to get on the SAP phone or

937
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: the in reach again. I am going to call for

938
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: help and have them come get me. Um. If I

939
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: am on a relatively small day hike and say I'm

940
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: less than an hour from the truck, I'm still going

941
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: to communicate. I'm going to start shooting people text messages,

942
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: let them know what's happening. I'm here and I'm walking out,

943
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: because I could pass out before I could go down

944
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: before I get out. But I would probably try to

945
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: walk out and uh, you know, I would do things

946
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: like take off jewelry, take off rings. Um. So I

947
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: don't have constriction points that are going to cause a

948
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: lot more damage. I might if I had a bite

949
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: on the hand, I might kind of hold that bite

950
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: kind of not above my head to help the venom

951
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: get towards my heart or not down low, so it

952
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: kind of wells up in my hand kind of mid

953
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: level and walk out. And you always communicate with a

954
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 1: hospital that you're gonna go to, even if you're coming out,

955
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: you want them to know you're coming, because the things

956
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: that they need to treat you may not be at

957
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: that hospital. The story you're about to hear is quite shocking,

958
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: and we'll pull the pendulum back from the lighter side

959
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: of snake bites that you've heard about from Mr Fred

960
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: and even Brent. This one will put into perspective the

961
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: seriousness of a snake bite. You're about to meet Lisa

962
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: Damn Run from Northern Georgia. I think you'll agree after

963
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: you hear her story that she's a pretty incredible lady.

964
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: She's being interviewed by Dr Jenkins, and there are a

965
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: few details you'll need to know. The snake in this

966
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: story is an adult timber rattlesnake and Lisa is pregnant.

967
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: Here is her story. My husband and I have actually

968
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: gone on just an impromptu date night and we had

969
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: just gotten home and I pulled into the driveway, stepped

970
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: out of the car and on our date night we

971
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: had gone gotten gotten groceries because you know, um, and

972
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: I had stepped out of the car and stepped to

973
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: the back seat just to grab a couple of bags

974
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: of groceries and felt the only way I can describe

975
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: it would be extremely forceful. I felt like somebody hit

976
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: me with a hammer that had a point on it

977
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: as hard as it could. And I was wearing sandals

978
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: and the snake got just me, no strap, no shoe, nothing,

979
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: so I felt at all. And it was so forceful

980
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: that I remember looking up because I never thought that

981
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: it had come from the ground. Um. I thought something

982
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: had to have fallen on me or something like that.

983
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: And my husband said that I jumped back. I don't

984
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: really remember, because it's sort of I think I went

985
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: into shock. UM. And he came around the car and

986
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: he said, I just kept saying, what was that? It hurt?

987
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: What was that? And it wasn't until he came around

988
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: and he said, oh my gosh, it's a snake that

989
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: I even knew what had happened. But I looked down

990
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: at that point and I remember seeing it curled up

991
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: in the driveway and its head was up looking at

992
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: my husband and its tail up rattling at him. Just

993
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,919
Speaker 1: warning him like to stay back that point it went

994
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 1: under the car, and my husband told me to jump

995
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: in the car and let's go. So we took off

996
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: at that point. So that's where we were. So you

997
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: see the bite actually happened on your foot is where

998
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: I was on my foot, on the top left side

999
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: of my left foot, so you you get the snake bite.

1000
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: Your husband said, let's let's get into the car. How

1001
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: many months pregnant were you I was seventeen weeks pregnant,

1002
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: so almost halfway the pregnancy. So you guys get in

1003
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 1: the car, and then what happens? Uh? He dialed nine

1004
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: on one and took off, driving very quickly down the

1005
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: road straight toward our hospital because we just figured that's

1006
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:34,959
Speaker 1: where we need to go UM. But he also called

1007
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 1: nine on one and as he was on the phone

1008
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: with them, they had called the hospital and found out

1009
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: they were actually out of anti venom because someone I

1010
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: think had been bitten the week before or something and

1011
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: they didn't have anymore. So they advised us to just

1012
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: go to UM where an ambulance was waiting for us

1013
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: just down the road. And when we got there, I

1014
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: was obviously very upset at this point because It was excruciating,

1015
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: but also I was worried about about my son, so

1016
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: I was upset and crying. And when we got to

1017
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: the paramedics, they actually then could tell it was pretty

1018
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: severe and had called a helicopter in. So you were

1019
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: up here in the mountains at you know, a small

1020
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: mountain hospital, and the helicopter picked you up up here. Yeah,

1021
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: they took me from here down to an hour away

1022
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: so to a different hospital. So what happened when when

1023
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 1: the helicopter landed and you got to the hospital in

1024
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: the larger city. Unfortunately, that's where my story gets um

1025
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 1: not great. The e er didn't really know what to

1026
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 1: do because I was pregnant. They just kept saying they

1027
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: weren't sure if anti venom was safe for someone who's pregnant.

1028
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: And it was a very busy night that night. I

1029
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 1: remember there being beds in the hallways, other patients and stuff.

1030
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 1: And so they left me laying there for a long time,

1031
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: many many hours, with nothing. And because I was pregnant,

1032
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even take pain killers, and so I just

1033
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: laid there in a lot of pain, and every thirty

1034
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: minutes they would come in and take a sharpie and

1035
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: mark my leg and after a lot of time I

1036
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 1: had gone by, it's clear it wasn't stopping, and they

1037
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 1: were at least halfway up my thigh at that point, marking,

1038
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 1: and they decided to start the anti venom at that point,

1039
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: what was the pain level, like, would you say during

1040
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: that part of the process, The actual by itself and

1041
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,919
Speaker 1: the you know, when the venom initially started to take

1042
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 1: over was excruciating. It was like I remember describing it

1043
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: like it was like lava was all over my foot

1044
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 1: while things were stabbing me and poking me and a

1045
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: lot of pressure. It was just it was really interesting.

1046
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: It never felt anything else like it. So they make

1047
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 1: the decision that well, to save your life, they need

1048
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: to start administering anti venom, but they're unsure about what

1049
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: might happen to the baby. So what happened next? So

1050
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 1: then when I got to IC you and nurse came in,

1051
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: the very first nurse I had, and she started asking

1052
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: me questions like, well, what did they say, since you're pregnant,

1053
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: you know they're going to be any side effects and

1054
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: he does will be birth effects anything like that? I said,

1055
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: They never did say. They never really seemed to find

1056
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: out and she said, I'm gonna call crow fab and

1057
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: that was the first time I'd even heard the name

1058
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: crow Feb. I didn't even know what that was. I

1059
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 1: was like, who's that? She said, as he makes the

1060
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: anti venom. Let's see if they know anything, and she

1061
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: came back in the room within twenty minutes with all

1062
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: kinds of information for me actually that it was perfectly safe.

1063
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: There's no side effects whatsoever, so maybe feel a lot

1064
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: better about the whole situation. Unfortunately, because they did wait

1065
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 1: too long, I did end up losing my son. Um

1066
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 1: I was written on the twenty one June, and on

1067
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: the twenty three June his heart stopped. So I was

1068
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: still an ic U spent until the twenty five, and

1069
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: I see wasn't until then I was released and then

1070
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: sent to labor and delivery. Unfortunately at that point, so

1071
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 1: it actually took a couple of days for your son's

1072
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: heart to stop beating. Said, yeah, it was the twenty one,

1073
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: but it was at nine fifteen at night, and then

1074
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: it in the morning, I found out, So it wasn't long.

1075
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,919
Speaker 1: They were obviously monitoring him. Was it a sudden thing

1076
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: or was it something that you all realized he was

1077
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: battling for life as well. It seems sudden to me, Um,

1078
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: when I found out my brother, who's actually a doctor,

1079
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: was in the I see you with me, just visiting.

1080
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: And so when they came in that that morning to

1081
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: do the ultrasound, he knew, Um, he could see and

1082
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 1: he knows what he's looking at, and so he actually

1083
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 1: followed the doctor out and asked, could I please be

1084
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: the one to tell her? And he told me, and

1085
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: then they actually allowed him to look over the day

1086
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: before and his heart rate had been dropping. Well, it

1087
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: seems like a big part of your story actually has

1088
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: to do with what happened or didn't happen at the hospital.

1089
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: So do you have any advice for people on how

1090
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 1: they can be advocates for their own treatment in this

1091
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 1: type of situation? Yeah, definitely. I mean, if anyone here's

1092
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 1: my story, especially if they're pregnant in their bitten, just

1093
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 1: know you should get anti venom. For one. I didn't know,

1094
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 1: and I even had people texting me like, I've been

1095
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: googling it and it seems fine, Like just even a

1096
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: quick Google search could kind of tell you that it's

1097
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 1: perfectly safe, and the quicker you get it, obviously the better,

1098
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 1: so for for your recovery and for your unborn child

1099
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: if you were pregnant. I have learned to be more

1100
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: of an advocate for myself and my family in medical field,

1101
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: because you know, I think they're the doctors are great

1102
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: and everything, but they don't know everything they know. One actually,

1103
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: in the almost week I was in the hospital and

1104
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 1: I see you labor delivery, you are not a single

1105
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 1: person who cared for me had ever had a patient

1106
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: bit by a venomous snake that was pregnant. Not one person.

1107
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 1: So you know they're not going to know everything. Well,

1108
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 1: I want the I want the audience to know that

1109
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: Lisa and I are sitting at a table in my

1110
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: office and there is a cage between us with a

1111
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: rattlesnake in it. I could literally, if the case, if

1112
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: the snake was not in the glass, either Lisa or

1113
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: I right now could reach out and touch that rattlesnake.

1114
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: And given this environment that we're sitting in, I wanted

1115
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: the last question I wanted to ask is how has

1116
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: this experience impacted how you think about snakes? Yeah, before

1117
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 1: living up here, you know, I knew that they were around,

1118
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 1: and so we we thought we were being aware and

1119
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: watching out. Um. But I wasn't fearful or you know,

1120
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: afraid of them. Um. Right after the experience, I think,

1121
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: given the fact that it wasn't just trauma for me,

1122
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: it was trauma plus grief. Um, it took a pretty

1123
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: large impact on me for a while. I had a

1124
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: really unrealistic fear of snakes for a while there. Like

1125
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 1: I was afraid to get out of bed in the mornings,

1126
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: thinking there might be a snake on my floor. I mean,

1127
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: it was just and I knew it was silly. I

1128
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 1: knew it was unrealistic, but I couldn't help it. I

1129
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 1: was very afraid. Now, after some time has gone by,

1130
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 1: and you know, I've educated myself and our children and

1131
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 1: things like that, I'm actually not afraid at all. I

1132
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: just I've made myself get out. It took a little

1133
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: a while. I didn't even want to get out in

1134
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:02,919
Speaker 1: the woods and go high I can and do things

1135
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: that I used to enjoy. Um, But I kind of

1136
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 1: made myself just go and do it and tell myself

1137
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 1: it's gonna be okay. And it has been okay. And

1138
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 1: now I actually find myself advocating for snakes a lot

1139
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 1: of times. I'll see people you know on Facebook make

1140
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 1: a post and they'll people will constantly talk about them

1141
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: and say things like, uh, only good snake is a

1142
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: dead snake and stuff like that. People love to say

1143
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: things like that, and I'll speak up and be like, no,

1144
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: that's not true. You know. I feel like if anybody

1145
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: has the right to feel that way, it would be me,

1146
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: and I don't. So people just I don't know. They're

1147
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: not bad, they're not. I don't just be watching out.

1148
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't I'm not afraid anymore, which

1149
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: I'm thankful for, because it really was hard there for

1150
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 1: a little while. But I've gotten past it. I was

1151
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 1: taken aback by Lisa's concluding statements of advocating for snakes

1152
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: and not living in fear. I would say that her

1153
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 1: response is powerful and inspiring. In conclusion, snakes are a

1154
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 1: cog in the wheel of the human experience. They're part

1155
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 1: of our lives. They live in the woods where we

1156
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: hike and hunt. They live in our yards, They live

1157
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 1: in our dreams and haunt our unconscious thoughts. The ancient

1158
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: mechanism at work and humans creating this innate fear and

1159
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 1: fascination with snakes is undeniable. My mother Juju, dedicated a

1160
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 1: fair part of her life to warning me about snakes.

1161
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: I now realized that my life would be incomplete without

1162
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 1: them and those warnings. It's almost like we needed a

1163
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 1: villain to learn the highways of human relationship. My mother's warning,

1164
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: combined with an instinct to not trust long slithery crew,

1165
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 1: has taught me to trust her to obey her, which

1166
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 1: ultimately ushered me into successful human life. Where would we

1167
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 1: be without snakes? And from my dad I learned that

1168
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 1: snakes inhabit the wild places of the earth, and what

1169
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 1: would a wilderness be without the possibility of coming on

1170
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,600
Speaker 1: a big timber rattlesnake. I guarantee I will never not

1171
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,560
Speaker 1: be excited when I see one. To me, they represent

1172
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 1: an uncontrollable wildness, which is something that I crave engagement with.

1173
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 1: It's my hope that we've presented a balanced view of

1174
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 1: snakes that will garner a deep respect for them in

1175
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 1: two ways. Number One, they can take your life or

1176
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 1: alter it in a significant way. Number Two, a wild

1177
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 1: place isn't wild at all without them. I encourage you

1178
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 1: to check out Dr Jenkins Snake Talk podcast to learn

1179
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 1: more about snake conservation. Long Live the beast and the

1180
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:12,639
Speaker 1: ancient human mechanisms that make us who we are. Thanks

1181
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: a ton for listening to the Bear Grease Podcast. Please

1182
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: leave us a big slithery review on iTunes and share

1183
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 1: this podcast with your buddies. We'll see you next week

1184
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: on the Bear Grease Render