1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's Sophia, Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello 2 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: Whips Martis, Welcome to a very special episode of Work 3 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: in Progress. Today we are joined by one of my 4 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: absolute advocate, Idols. America stands at a crossroads right now, 5 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: and the choices that are made in the coming months 6 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: might determine the very survival of our democracy. And when 7 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: I feel overwhelmed by that, I look for the helpers. 8 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: And some of the helpers are elected leaders that are 9 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: speaking truth to power despite the shifting tides of political 10 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: power in our country right now, and Representative Rocana knows 11 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: how to do this better than most. From his childhood 12 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia as the son of Indian immigrants to his 13 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: rise as a leading progress voice in the US House, 14 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: Congressman Kana has dedicated his life to fighting for working families, 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: protecting civil liberties, and holding power accountable. He represents Silicon 16 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: Valley's seventeenth district and has championed bold legislation on technology, manufacturing, 17 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: and climate while pushing for a more just and equitable America. 18 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: And right now, as threats to democratic institutions intensify, from 19 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: voter suppression to ice abuse and ice being deployed in airports, 20 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: to the unchecked influence of corporate money, to the absolutely 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: abhorrent handling of the Epstein files and the fact that 22 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: that scandal touches the White House, and of course this 23 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: multi billion dollar war with a RAM that the President 24 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: started without congressional approval. The stakes could not be higher. 25 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: And when things feel overwhelming like that list just did, 26 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: I want to ask experts what we can do to 27 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: maintain our hope and what we can do to maintain 28 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: our fight. And Rocanna is a fighter that I would 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,639 Speaker 1: get in the ring with any day, same team, of course. 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: So let's dive in with the congressman and figure out 31 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: what the hell we're all supposed to be doing right now. 32 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: It's so nice to have you here, a Congressman. There's 33 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: so much I want to ask you about that's pressing 34 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: in the news. But before I do, I like to 35 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: go backwards with everybody, because plenty of people know your resume. 36 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: But I think it's fun for people to know a 37 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: little bit about my guests before they were public figures. 38 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: You grew up in Philadelphia, and I know that your 39 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: parents were Indian immigrants. I'm very curious if you could 40 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: paint a picture for the listeners and I of what 41 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: life was like in your childhood, what you were up 42 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: to around say the age of eight, what the conversations 43 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: were like in your house with immigrant parents around, you know, 44 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: your culture, your American identity, you're having been born here. 45 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: Give us to use a film term, set the scene. 46 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 2: Wow, Sophia. Well, this is a unique podcast because I've 47 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 2: had hundreds of them, and I don't think I've been 48 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: asked such an interesting, thoughtful question. Roy started. I just 49 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: want to say I admire your voice. There are a 50 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: lot of people who have your platform move choose to 51 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: use it for more frivolous things, and you're speaking out 52 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: about the issues of our time. Is really a testament 53 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: to your character. So I appreciate that. Thank you. You know, 54 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. My parents were 55 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: hard working. They expected us to do really well in school. 56 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: You know, when I would get ninety percent on my exams, 57 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: my dad would say, where's the other ten percent? I 58 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,119 Speaker 2: played little ly, not well, you know, but the coach 59 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: has always said plays and I often that ninth date, 60 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: when I get up to the plate, they'd say watch 61 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: the bunt, because you know I couldn't hit well. I 62 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: was pretty good in the field, but couldn't couldn't hit, 63 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: but I played through seventh and eighth grade. I was 64 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 2: a big collecting baseball cards. We'd go two friends of mine, 65 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: uh Jordan Rosen and uh uh and and and Mike Rosen. 66 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: We used to have go to flea markets and baseball 67 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 2: card shows and sell baseball cards, trade baseball cards to 68 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 2: make a little extra cash. Uh and uh you know 69 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 2: shoveled snow driveways when when it when its snowed uh 70 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 2: and uh ref Bay basketball. But sports was a big 71 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 2: part of it. I did uh ref basketball games. Was 72 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: a big Philadelphia uh sports fan. Uh. And then we 73 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 2: would go to India during the summers often to visit 74 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: my grandparents, and my grandfather would say, is my biggest 75 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: inspiration was in jail as part of Gandhi's independence movement 76 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: for fifteen years twice a fifteen years part of the 77 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: moment twice in jail in the nineteen thirties and nineteen 78 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: forties fighting for Indian independence. And I lost twice before 79 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: I got into Congress. And I've had a lot of 80 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: ups and downs, But anytime I've had sort of a 81 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 2: down in my life or any time I take any 82 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: kind of risk. I was thinking of my grandfather and 83 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: think about the sacrifices he made, the courage he showed, 84 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 2: and I feel like my life is so easy comparatively, 85 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: and it gives me a inspiration to show more boldness 86 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: and courage. 87 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: That's really beautiful, you know. I think that there's there's 88 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: a truth in certainly so much American legacy. And I 89 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: was thinking about it a few months ago. I was 90 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: shooting a film in South Africa and staring at Robin 91 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: Island and thinking about Nelson Mandela's legacy, and you realize 92 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: that sometimes in our human history, just because something has 93 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: been legal or power has been exercised, it doesn't mean 94 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: it's been right. And when you tell the story of 95 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: your grandfather being jailed and that being such an inspiration 96 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: to you to fight not just for what's allowed in 97 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 1: the current system, but for what's correct, I feel that 98 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: in my bones. I also feel that where's the other 99 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: ten percent, you know, immigrant family On my end too, 100 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: it was like it better be. 101 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 3: Straight as or nothing. 102 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 103 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 3: Well, so my mom's. 104 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: Mom came from Italy, but my mother grew up in 105 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: a you know, fully immersed immigrant household. And then my 106 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: dad came to the States in the seventies to go 107 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: to college. So as you know, well, being such a 108 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: wonderful elected who stands up against ice abuse. When people 109 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: say do it the right way, I'm like, look, my 110 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: dad's a middle class guy from a white guy from Canada, 111 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: and it took him until I was thirteen to become 112 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: a citizen. So take several seats when you say that 113 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: to me, please and thank you. I'm very curious. You know, 114 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: as a member of Congress, having made your way to California, 115 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: taking those losses on the chin, but representing our great 116 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: state since twenty seventeen, you have always struck me as 117 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: relentless and dogged in the fight. And my parents love 118 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: to say I'm like a dog with a bone when 119 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: I have a social justice issue, and I always tell 120 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: them that's the immigrant in me. 121 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 3: I'm very curious for you how you. 122 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to say prioritize, but you know you'll 123 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: hear people say pick your battles. 124 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 3: I don't think when. 125 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: We're fighting for human progress in decency, you can necessarily 126 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: pick an issue. But you are so much frontline champion 127 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: defending people, whether it's exposing the Epstein files, to ending 128 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: ice abuse, to standing up for a climate that is 129 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: livable for us and our eventual children. Do you identify 130 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: a through line that's common in all of those things, 131 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,679 Speaker 1: or is the through line for you as a leader 132 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: what you know to be right and fair. 133 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: That's a very deep question. I think the through line 134 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: for me is that America becoming a cohesive multi racial democracy, 135 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: fulfilling what was Frederick Douglas's vision of being a composite nation, 136 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: a nation for people from all different backgrounds, would be 137 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: a civilizational achievement and also lead to an America that 138 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: recognized the human rights and dignity of people around the 139 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: world and moved us past a colonial model of the world, 140 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 2: harkening back to my grandfather. And so that is the 141 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: north star. How do we build in America that is 142 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: this vibrant, pluralistic, multi racial democracy, something that's never been 143 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: done in the history of human kind. And given that 144 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: we're the most powerful country in the world, if we 145 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: were like that, would that mean that we would exercise 146 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: power internationally in a more just way that recognizes the 147 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: aspirations of people around the world. Now that's the broader frame. 148 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: I didn't come to Congress saying I was going to 149 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 2: be a champion for survivors of sexual assault or epsteint. 150 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: I don't think that's the way it works. But what 151 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: happened is that I met with survivors and their stories. 152 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: They were so powerful. I mean, they were in my office, 153 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: they had tears, They were treated as dispensable. And it 154 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 2: became to me personal that these rich and powerful people 155 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: thought they could write the rules and ignore the rules 156 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: and just treat girls of working class families for many 157 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: immigrant families, as objects, as dispensable, and it became something 158 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: personal for me, personal for Massy, personal for Margie Tellgreen, 159 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: which is to say that politics is also somewhat organic. 160 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 2: If I came in and just said, Okay, here are 161 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,599 Speaker 2: the issues I want to work for to build a 162 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 2: multiracial coees of democracy, that may not be what the 163 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 2: moment requires. And so what I say is I had 164 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: my values, but then I look for what people are 165 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 2: feeling and where we're having we can push the boulder 166 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: in the right direction, and that often results in the 167 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 2: issues that I dedicate myself to On Epstein. It was 168 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: both the emotional power and the fact that I thought 169 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: we could actually accomplish something. We could get something done 170 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: absolutely well. 171 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: I have to thank you for your leadership on this, 172 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: you know, as a woman with my own stories, and 173 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: as one of the three hundred women who signed the 174 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: original Times Up letter you know that we published in 175 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: January of twenty eighteen. It is scary to stand up 176 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: against the power of industry, or the power of finance, 177 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: or the power of government and say fifty one percent 178 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: of us are being treated as dispensable. And I know 179 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: that this doesn't just happen to women, but I know 180 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: it is an outsized abuse of our gender. You know, 181 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: to see you and Massey working together on this has 182 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: been I think powerful to a lot of us who 183 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: feel like our real lives get reduced to partisan gamesmanship. 184 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm curious about a couple of points. You know, I've 185 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: been really amazed by how you've been able to communicate 186 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: the complexity of this with the American public. You know, 187 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: from pointing out the fact that the DJ under the 188 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: leadership of Pam Bondi, or the capture of Bondi, maybe 189 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: I should say, is purposefully muddying the waters. You know, 190 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: you tweeted something that I thought was brilliant to say 191 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: to have Jenis Droplin, who died when Epstein was seventeen, 192 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: in the same list as Larry Nasser, who went to 193 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: prison for the sexual abuse of hundreds of young women 194 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: and child pornography, with no clarification to how either is 195 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: in the files is absurd. The mention of a famous person, 196 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: perhaps because he or one of his compatriots was listening 197 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: to her music, is not the same as people who 198 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: with whom he was trafficking women and girls. And you've 199 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: pointed out the over one hundred million dollars that his 200 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: estate has paid to one hundred and fifty survivors. You've 201 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: pointed out the fact that his estate under Richard Kahn, 202 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: paid a settlement to Jane do number four in response 203 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: to her accusation against both Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. 204 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: You're really deep on the details. I appreciate your following 205 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 2: this and I appreciate it. I knew of your advocacy 206 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: in the me too moment. 207 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: It's very true, and I think you know every woman 208 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: I know with a story. When that news broke, was 209 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: heartbroken for Dolores Huerta and thrilled that she was able 210 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: to finally tell her truth, especially at her age. You 211 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: know that that was not a secret that would eventually 212 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: pass with her. I really also want to appreciate that 213 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: you've called out some of the women that are your 214 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: Republican colleagues on this. What I'm curious about because obviously, 215 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, you get to see the files that we 216 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: don't get to see. We know that in the files 217 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: you have access to in Congress that Donald Trump's name 218 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: is mentioned nearly one million times in three and a 219 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: half million files. And if you're in twenty five percent 220 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: of a predator's files, I'd go ahead and say you're 221 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: a predator. We have very credible evidence. We know the 222 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: FBI and the DOJ have credible accusations that they investigated 223 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: that they believed. We see the evidence of the payments 224 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: both on behalf of Epstein and the president. Why do 225 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: you feel like this man, for some reason is teflon 226 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: when it comes to this issue, Because I know that 227 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: if any other president were met with this mountain of evidence, 228 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: they'd be impeached immediately. So what do you see going 229 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: on behind the scenes right now? Is it the capture 230 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: and in progress coup of the country under the umbrella 231 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: of Project twenty twenty five? And it's nine hundred and 232 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: twenty five pages of authoritarian goals. Why are we so 233 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: unable to stop the madness, whether it's in relation to 234 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: the sexual predation or it's in relation to the absolute 235 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: abuse of American citizens and our taxpayer dollars, Like, what's 236 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: the hold up here? 237 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's a very important question. First, let me 238 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: just say how important the survivors were in all of this, 239 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: because to your point of not recognizing the grift, the 240 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: thing that got Marjorie Taylor Green, that got Nancy Mays 241 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: to recognize the grift, or the survivors, I mean, if 242 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 2: they had not come to the Capitol and told their 243 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 2: story twice, there's no way Massey and I would have 244 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 2: been able to pass this to the House or Senate 245 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: or force the President to sign it. And they really 246 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: are going to be remembered in history because it's the 247 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: first time that MAGA has turned on Trump on anything 248 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: since he came down the escalator, and it's and they've 249 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 2: basically created a permission structure now for more Republicans to 250 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: speak up against Trump. Yes, it's not as many as 251 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: we want, but we've gone from Massey and my doing 252 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: being one of the few distrust petitions to now hundreds 253 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 2: of distrust petitions. They when people look at the beginning 254 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 2: of the end of the Trump era, they're going to 255 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 2: credit the survivors. But why is it that Trump then 256 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: has gotten away with as much? And I haven't seen 257 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: as many of the files because he's redacted the files 258 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: he's showing members of Congress. And this is so important 259 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: to understand because they've obfuscated this. They scrubbed those files 260 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: in March, and then they scrubbed him again at the 261 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: Justice Department, and what they showed members of Congress was 262 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 2: the part that the Justice Department redacted. But they're still 263 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: largely blacked out documents because the FBI had already scrubbed 264 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: them in March. And so they have protected the president, 265 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: they've protected people around him, and there are three million 266 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 2: documents that still need to be released. What we've seen 267 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 2: is just the surface, and it's already chilling. But you know, well, 268 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 2: this president is defending for some of their way of life, 269 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 2: and he tapped into the anger of the American people 270 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: against the corrupt elite. He said, I'm going to fight 271 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: for your pride that people had lost, and so they 272 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: have given him an emotional allowance. I don't understand it, definitely, 273 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 2: and I certainly don't condone a lot of the things 274 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: he's gotten away with. This perhaps the most egregious, But 275 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: it's the first issue that people are turning to him 276 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: against him. Not because of the allegations of him raping 277 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 2: a girl at thirteen, which we don't know whether it's 278 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 2: true or not, but we do know they covered up 279 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: the witness interviews with this survivor and we forced the release, 280 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: But not because of that. They're turning on him because 281 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: he promised to expose this Epstein class and he's now 282 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: become part of the Epstein class. He promised to fight 283 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 2: for the working class, and now he's getting us into 284 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 2: these wars. So it's the betrayal of what he represented. 285 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 2: And you know why that makes me sad that he 286 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 2: so broke the trust even of his own voters. That 287 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: I fear whoever our leaders coming next, are operating in 288 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 2: such a trust deficit that yes, someone like me wants 289 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 2: national healthcare and medical care for all and taxing billionaires 290 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 2: and childcare, that voters look at me and say, come on, bro, 291 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 2: we've heard all this before. It's too corrupted. All these 292 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: politicians come and they make promises and you don't get 293 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 2: anything done. And I think one of the biggest legacies 294 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: of Trump that we're going to have to grapple it 295 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 2: he's done so much harm, is just the utter breaking 296 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 2: of trust. How he sold a lie to so many Americans. 297 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 1: Yes, and now a word from our sponsor, who make 298 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: this show possible. Well, and I think to your point, 299 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: you know, the the lie has always felt clear to me. 300 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: You know that a man would call an elected representative 301 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: like you, or you know, a SAG union member like me, 302 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: an elitist. Yet he's got billions of dollars to his name, 303 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: and a plane, a plane with his name on it, 304 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: you know, and has a gold toilet in his penthouse apartment, 305 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: yet is calling other people the elite. 306 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 2: You know. 307 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: I think what's been so hard to watch is the 308 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: level of grift this time around, particularly because so many 309 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: of us knew it was coming, you know, to see 310 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 1: the one point five billion dollar bet that was just 311 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: placed this week prior to him announcing, fifteen minutes prior 312 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: to him claiming that he had productive talks with Iran, 313 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: and so someone has made hundreds of millions of dollars 314 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: on oil. We've seen the Bitcoin grift with him and 315 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: the first Lady. We've seen all of the dark money 316 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: flowing into politics. We've seen the contracts given to the 317 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: very people that you know he lied swearing he would 318 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: go up against, from the manufacturers of glyphosate to you know, 319 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: all sorts of other chemical companies. The walking back of 320 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: HHS policy where they're saying, well, it turns out we 321 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: know how to fight cancer and it's vaccines. I'm sitting here, 322 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: pardon my French, going no shit, Sherlock. Turns out science 323 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 1: is real and the climate exists. You know, how are 324 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: we having these conversations? And I think a few of 325 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: the things that have been alarming to me, particularly with 326 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 1: regards you know, to the Epstein files, as that does 327 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 1: seem to be a breakpoint for a lot of people, 328 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: is the evidence we do have, because I know that 329 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: what we know about what this man is doing in 330 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: his administration doing is only a fraction of what's going 331 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: on behind the scenes. But the fact that we know 332 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: that the FBI paid eight hundred and fifty thousand overtime 333 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: hours for agents to identify Trump's name in the files 334 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: that we have watched live on the publication of the 335 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: DOJ website files being deleted, including the photograph of him 336 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: in the top drawer of Jeffrey Epstein's desk. We are 337 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: watching a cover up happening in real time, and to 338 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: watch it happen so blatantly, I think is both shocking 339 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: and I fear leads to a feeling of hopelessness, because 340 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: if they're doing this in broad daylight, we can't imagine 341 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: what they're doing in the dark, you know, and that 342 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: abuse in daylight to darkness pipeline we know has happened 343 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: in this world with Epstein. We now know that Jeffrey 344 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: Epstein and Steve Bannon took place in launching backslash poll 345 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: on four Chan, launch in QAnon. They created the every 346 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: accusation is actually projection, sort of routine operating procedure for 347 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: their world by saying, oh, let's tell people what we're doing, 348 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: but say other. 349 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 3: People are doing it. 350 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: It's a level of depravity and darkness, particularly as it 351 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: surrounds the sexual abuse of women and children, that is 352 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: so shocking to me. But it's exactly what we're seeing 353 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: in a whole other vertical with ice. We are seeing 354 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: untrained radical known domestic terrorists signing up to work for ICE, 355 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: carrying guns in our streets, abusing and assaulting people, abusing 356 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: and assaulting American citizens, murdering American citizens, shooting people and 357 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: then bragging about it in their text threads. And now 358 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: the news is released this week in a grotesquely cover 359 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: up manner that underage girls are testing positive for pregnancy 360 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: and ice facilities, meaning children are being raped in ice 361 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: facilities and getting pregnant. How do we fight this stuff, Congressman? 362 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: Because it's so awful that I feel almost knocked over 363 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: by it. Oh sorry, I'm getting emotional on it makes 364 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: me feel almost powerless, But I'm so angry that I'm 365 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: not going to stop fighting. But much like you collected 366 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: baseball cards as a kid, you've got the inside baseball 367 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: and how we're going to fix this. So what is 368 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: the move? How do we stop this? I know you've 369 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: presented a ten point plan to end ICE abuse, bless you, 370 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: But since then we've gotten this news about the girls 371 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: in detention. We see ICE agents getting deployed into airports, 372 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: which we know was a point in Project twenty twenty 373 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: five to privatize the TSA because they love union busting 374 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: it feels like things are getting worse, but you have 375 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: a plan to make them better. 376 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 3: So what can we do? 377 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 2: So, yeah, that was so roy and i and so 378 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 2: beautifully put. I mean, I think we have to start 379 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 2: with what's going on in this country, right, and it 380 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 2: goes to the original paradox of America, a country in 381 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 2: one place founded on incredible ideals of liberty and equality 382 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: with the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, but also a 383 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 2: other strand founded on dominion and subjugation of slaves, of 384 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: Native Americans, of women. And what we're seeing is that 385 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 2: ugly strand of American conquest. Be put as pre eminent, 386 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: be put as in the center of power, and not tamed, 387 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 2: not in service of any higher ideals. And so you 388 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: have the Epstein class, these rich and powerful men who 389 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: basically treated young girls for their sexual pleasures as totally 390 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 2: dispensable and had no shame in abuse and rape, and 391 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: thought the laws didn't apply to them. This sense of 392 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: dominion over another human being, you have in ice the 393 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: sense for a lot of these people untrained, with an 394 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 2: ugly power dynamic, where yesterday I was in a testimony 395 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,239 Speaker 2: where a sixteen year old was in a chokehold by 396 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 2: an ICE officer who was an American citizen. A mother 397 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 2: talked about being told to shut up, and then how 398 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 2: she didn't take care of her kids as well as 399 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 2: ICE could, and how they would blow our heads off. 400 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 2: It's the exertion of power. And you see this happening 401 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 2: in our foreign policy, where we're killing fishermen on boats 402 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 2: in the Caribbean, where we're threatening conquest in Greenland, where 403 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 2: the president is saying I'm going to just obliterate power plants. 404 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: In Iran, where we struck a school with young girls 405 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 2: in Iran and hundreds of people died, and no sense 406 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 2: of accountability. It's a world that might makes right. But 407 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 2: the good news is that across the country, people like 408 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 2: you are becoming emotional and rejecting it. Not just kids 409 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 2: of immigrants like you and me, people who trace their 410 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 2: heritage back four or five six generations. When I went 411 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 2: to Minneapolis for the memorial of Alex Predi, there were 412 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 2: six seventh generation Minnesotans there talking about how they were 413 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: under tyranny, how they were under siege, and how they 414 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: were going to fight back through social movements, through protests. 415 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 2: I believe social movements and organizing will overcome this ugliness 416 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: in our body politic and that we're going to have 417 00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 2: a new generation with a new moral direction that emergesies. 418 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 2: The people out there were talking about kindness and decency 419 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 2: and truth that are also part of the American story, 420 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 2: and that in our history have triumph. That after the 421 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: Civil War we did have reconstruction. For twelve years after whoever, 422 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 2: we did have FDR, after George W. Bush, we did 423 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: have Obama. That is my underlying faith as an American, 424 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 2: and I hope it'll be vindicated. 425 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 3: I hope so too. 426 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: I also, frankly, Congressman, I hope we get to a 427 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: point where we don't continue to do this amnesia based swing, 428 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: where we let a Republican get into office and destroy 429 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: the economy and get us into a war, and then 430 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: we elect a Democrat and they have to do a 431 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: clean up job and build the fix instead of continue 432 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: building on the fix. You know, you look at the 433 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: last you know, sixty years, and that swing is what 434 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: happens over and over and over again. It seems like 435 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: our political memories are quite short, and we forget that 436 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: progress takes time. Destruction is very quick. It takes a 437 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: second to blow up a building, it takes a long 438 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: time to build one. But if we continue adding floors 439 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: of progress to the nation year after year, and we 440 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: don't allow for the destruction swing every four to eight years, 441 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: I think we could really be onto something. 442 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: Although sometimes I agree with you, although sometimes in our 443 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 2: country it's after destruction that we have progressive swings on 444 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 2: a much higher plane. And so maybe we're building step 445 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 2: by step by step, but we're a floor level six 446 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 2: and it gets destroyed to two, but that destruction gets 447 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: us to floor number ten. That's what happened with the 448 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 2: reconstruction and the New Deal. And I believe we're in 449 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: one of those moments that the next time the Democrats 450 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 2: are in power for the House of the Senate, the presidency, 451 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 2: it's not going to be incremental fixing and let's just 452 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 2: build it to be destroyed. It really needs to be 453 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 2: a transformational moment where we tackled the wealth inequality, where 454 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 2: we tackle the fact that people don't have healthcare and childcare, 455 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: we're tackling geographical and quality, where we're tearing down ice 456 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 2: and saying, you know what, yeah, it's being abused under Trump, 457 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 2: but let's be honest. I mean the abuse under Trump 458 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: is grotesque. But there was ice abuse under George W. Bush, 459 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 2: and there was ice abuse during the two terms of 460 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 2: a bombing. There was ice abuse under the first Trump 461 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,719 Speaker 2: administration and the biding Trump administration. And we just need 462 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 2: to tear down this agency. It's not an agency with 463 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 2: human rights, and we need to start afresh with an 464 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 2: agency that actually is going to uphold human rights. So 465 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 2: there's an opportunity to rebuild this country in a more 466 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 2: moral direction, in a bold direction that I think are 467 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 2: we need to take up. 468 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: I also think you and MASSI are setting a great 469 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: example to return to healthy debate versus ideological disagreement, because 470 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: this whole let's run on a problem instead of fix 471 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: a problem thing that seems to be happening, and the 472 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: sparring is a mess. The fact that we have not 473 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: relatively easily for the sort of power of a nation 474 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: like America fixed our immigration system is preposterous, and it's 475 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: because people like to complain about it. 476 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 3: They like to point fingers. 477 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: And they allow the people who are trying to do 478 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: things the right way and some of the folks that 479 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: are desperately running from problems that, let's be frank, our 480 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: nation has absolutely helped contribute to We're letting those people 481 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: be used as ponds instead of remembering who we are. 482 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: We are the nation that launched USAID. We are the 483 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: nation that has helped take care of people around the world. 484 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: For all of our faults, as you mentioned, we also 485 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: have a side of incredible goodness. And I think the 486 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: point of the progress of time is that we do 487 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: more and more good and we learn our lessons in 488 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: less and less harm. And we seem to really be 489 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: in a backswing into harm right now. One of the 490 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: things that frightens me about the potential of us being 491 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: on a precipice of a huge leap forward into true 492 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: progress that takes care of everyone, that helps people undo 493 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: the lie of scarcity mentality is the Save Act. You know, 494 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: this could disenfranchise one hundred and forty million Americans. 495 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 2: Oh, NIC's crazy. I'm sorry. I don't know if you're 496 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 2: married or not, but for anyone who's married, it's the 497 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 2: most absurd thing. You're going to have to go to 498 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 2: the registrar and show your marriage certificate to prove that 499 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 2: you've changed your name. I mean, it is the biggest 500 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,479 Speaker 2: tax on voting. 501 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: It's a pull tax, which is illegal for our friends 502 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: at home, because you know this and I know this. 503 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: You know you're an actual elected official and I'm a 504 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: constitutional nerd. But for people at home who might not know, 505 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: there are laws that prevent our nation from charging a 506 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: poll tax. And every provision in the Save Act, whether 507 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: it's having to go to the registrar and show them 508 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: your birth certificate, which many people don't have access to anymore, 509 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: and your marriage certificate, getting a passport which is incredibly expensive, 510 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: getting a new form of ID, which also is not free. 511 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: Those are all poll taxes on your time and your expenses. 512 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: They are illegal. And the GOP currently in power is 513 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: claiming that this is a voter ID law, but this 514 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: is truly a voter suppression law because your ID is 515 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: not good enough. 516 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: To vote with yes. And it's a solution in search 517 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 2: of a problem, because it's just not true that undocumented 518 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 2: folks are voting. Just think about it this way, And 519 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 2: you know people who are undocumented as I do. Do 520 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 2: you really think that someone undocumented who's concerned about their 521 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 2: status is going to be taking the chance. Yeah, I 522 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 2: really want to go cast a vote that desperately that 523 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to go risk being in jail. And doing 524 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: it illegally, of course not. I mean, it's just an 525 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 2: absurd proposition. They just want to live their life. They 526 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 2: want to make some money and maybe send some money 527 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 2: back home to their families. They're not dying to vote 528 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 2: for Rokana in some election and risk going to gail. 529 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 2: So I mean it makes no sense it logically. 530 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 3: Well, of course not. 531 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: And by the way, the fact that we do know 532 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: because research is not emotional, you know, morals are emotional, 533 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: math is not. And the research shows that immigrants commit 534 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: far less crimes than American citizens. So we think the 535 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: immigrants who are trying to stay here are committing the 536 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,719 Speaker 1: crimes that won't let them stay here. Like, come on, 537 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, nobody wants criminals on the streets, but law 538 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: abiding residents of our country don't deserve to be persecuted 539 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: this way. And I found this week a statistic that 540 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: I thought was quite interesting. There was a bipartisan commission. 541 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of it, but I do 542 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: remember the specificity that it was bipartisan that has studied 543 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: the last it's either twenty five or thirty years of voting, 544 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: examining voter fraud. We are a nation of three hundred 545 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: and thirty two million people, and in the last twenty 546 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: five to thirty years they have found twenty four incidents, 547 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: meaning twenty four votes total cast by non citizens in 548 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: three decades. That amounts to less than three a year. 549 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: And they're trying to disenfranchise all, you know, ninety million 550 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: married women in the country and up to one hundred 551 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: and forty million people who don't have a passport. It's 552 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: the most insane math I've ever heard in my life. 553 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 3: So is there something that you would. 554 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: Recommend as an elected official for us to be doing, 555 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: Because a lot of people are afraid that the Save 556 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: Act is going to get signed off on because of 557 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: the way that the President is, you know, pounding his 558 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: fists and saying he won't approve anything until it does. 559 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: What can we as a constituency do to put a 560 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: stop to our voices being denied at the ballot box. 561 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 2: Well, we need you out there stumping and talking to 562 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 2: people with the facts you have. I mean, I don't 563 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 2: think most Americans know and understand these facts of how 564 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 2: few actual fraud cases there are, of how many people 565 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 2: would be impacted one hundred and forty million Americans who 566 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 2: don't have passports ninety million married women who have to 567 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 2: go and then show ID, and then people who have 568 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 2: student idea. I mean, think about this. Some states, it's 569 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 2: fine to have a hunting license that's valid ID to vote, 570 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 2: but it's not fine to have a student idea. I mean, 571 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 2: it's totally rigged to favor groups that are going to 572 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 2: vote Republican and put attacks on people who vote Democratic. 573 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 2: But we just need the facts out there, and we 574 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 2: need people's voice out there. Ultimately, I do think we 575 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 2: can stop this in the Senate, and there are enough 576 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 2: Republicans who we have who will be opposed to this 577 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 2: kind of a bill. But we can't take it for granted. 578 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 2: And really, your voice matters. You're traveling the country giving talks, 579 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 2: being on social media and all of your incredible listeners. 580 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 2: Everyone's voice really does matter. The only thing in America 581 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 2: that overcomes entrenched power and wealth is social movements, and 582 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 2: that's what we need. 583 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's far more of us than there are 584 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: of them, but my god, do they have a big 585 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: war chest. We'll be back in just a minute, but 586 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: here's a word from our sponsors. 587 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 3: I'm curious because I know you've. 588 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: Got to go back to the floor, So I'm going 589 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: to get you out of here as quickly as I can. 590 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 2: All Right, I'm enjoying the conversation. I appreciate it me too. 591 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 1: I can't wait to have a longer one at some point. 592 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: But you know, tough times, I think require more hope, 593 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: and I know that you know, we're definitely bruised and bloodied, 594 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: but we're not laying down the fight. What do you 595 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: think is the core message that you want Americans from 596 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: small towns to big cities to carry with them about 597 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: not only the future of our country and what's possible, 598 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: but their role in shaping it. 599 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 2: It's still an incredible country. It's an incredible country that 600 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 2: has the most open political process and an incredibly kind 601 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 2: and good country. From my life experience, I mean, I'm 602 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 2: an Indian American of Hindu faith. My parents were middle class. 603 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 2: My dad a chemical engineer, my mom a teacher's assistant 604 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 2: for special needs. I took out hundreds of thousands of 605 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 2: dollars of loans to finish education, over one hundred thousand dollars. 606 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 2: My grandfather spent years in a British prison fighting for 607 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 2: Indian independence, and this country elected me at the age 608 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 2: of forty to represent Silicon Valley, arguably the most economically 609 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 2: innovatid of place in the world. America is a place 610 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 2: that is making progress in spite of herself, ourself. One 611 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: way of looking at Kamala Harris's election is that you lost. 612 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 2: Another way of saying, well, an African American Indian American 613 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 2: woman got forty eight point five percent in Pennsylvania. When 614 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 2: I was growing up in nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties 615 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, that would have seemed impossible. So what I 616 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 2: would say to folks is, we have a lot of challenges, 617 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 2: and our challenges are fundamentally the economic divide that wealth 618 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 2: is concentrated in places like mine. That we have nineteen 619 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 2: billionaires who own twelve and a half percent of the economy. 620 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 2: That's triple the concentration as during the Gilded Age when 621 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 2: we had Rockefeller, Morgan, Vanderbilt, and Carnegie. That we've got 622 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 2: to have the future economy working for every town, for 623 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 2: every community, for every place in America. And then we 624 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,800 Speaker 2: need to have every family having a stake in economic 625 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 2: independence and security. But if we do that, if we 626 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 2: can democratize the economy, if we can create eight economic 627 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 2: independence and security for people across this country. Then we 628 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 2: really can build a multi racial democracy, a model to 629 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 2: the world. And I guess I would just say the 630 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 2: challenges we have paled in comparison, though, tough, to the 631 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 2: challenges that John Lewis had, my late colleague, or that 632 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 2: my grandfather had, or that the people who fought in 633 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 2: scale the Cliffs of Normandy had, or the people the 634 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 2: women who were Rosy the Riveter. In industrialized America, we've 635 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 2: been We are the beneficiaries of Mendela and King and 636 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 2: Gandhi and Rosie the Riveter and the soldiers of the 637 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 2: Greatest generation. We have been given such a rich inheritance. 638 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 2: And you're telling we were going to let Donald Trump 639 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 2: destroy it. Come on, have more guts, have more confidence 640 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 2: in the American project. It's for us to seize the 641 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 2: moment and build the nation we want. 642 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 3: You'll love this. 643 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: I think of the journal w Camal Bell who says, 644 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: whenever he gets exhausted and thinks he just wants to 645 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: hide for a day, the ghost of Harriet Tubman smacks 646 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: them on the back side of the head and says, 647 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: get up. And I really think that that's true. You know, 648 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: when I feel overwhelmed. I think about doctor King and 649 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: Audrey Lord and Glorious Steinham and all of these women 650 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: who did all of this incredible work, and I think 651 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: to myself, who would we be to stop? So it's 652 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: a really poignant reminder and I appreciate you giving it 653 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: to us today. You know, from rallying behind survivors in 654 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,840 Speaker 1: the Epstein files, to pushing back to fighting Ice, to 655 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: being incredibly vocal against this non congressionally approved war that 656 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: Donald Trump has started and Iran. There's also the other 657 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,720 Speaker 1: side of your life, you know, your personal life, your world, 658 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: your family. As you look at the two, the following 659 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: question could apply to either it could be big picture 660 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: political or in your four walls personal. But I'm curious 661 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: what today feels like You're work in progress. 662 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 2: You know. Obviously my family it comes first, but I 663 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 2: try to keep them out of things because it's such 664 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 2: an ugly world, yeah, we live in. But for me, 665 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 2: the progress that I hope is that I can do 666 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:39,720 Speaker 2: my small part to say that I worked to create 667 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 2: a nation and a world that was a little bit 668 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 2: more just, and a little bit more kind and a 669 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 2: little bit more decent. And you know, Benjamin Disraeli once 670 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 2: said that every political career ends in failure. And as 671 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,959 Speaker 2: a student of history, you know, I was reading something 672 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 2: about Churchill and Gandhi, and there are two opposites. But Churchill, 673 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 2: even though he wins World War Two, was very disappointed 674 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 2: because he wanted the fundamental success of the British Empire. 675 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 2: I'm glad the British Empire ended, but he failed. And Gandhi, 676 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 2: even though he achieved the Indian independence, he didn't want 677 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,959 Speaker 2: India to be partitioned to India and Pakistan. He wanted 678 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 2: Muslims and Hindus to live together, and he failed. And 679 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 2: so the act of a political life is one of 680 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 2: pushing a rock up hill in terms of the challenge 681 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 2: of overcoming so much of human nature. Might makes right 682 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 2: and power, but all any of us can do is 683 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 2: just do our part to push it a little bit, 684 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 2: to leave it the world and the nation a little 685 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,919 Speaker 2: bit better. And I don't view myself as any better 686 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,879 Speaker 2: morally or any you know, we're all living complex lives. 687 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 2: But I just hope at the end of the day, 688 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 2: at the end of my service, people's you know what. 689 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 2: On balance, he made mistakes, He did things that weren't 690 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 2: right here and there. But on balance he did enough 691 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 2: to move the world in a little better place. And 692 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 2: that's that's really by what I live by. 693 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: It's really beautiful, and I think you're right, you know, 694 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: it's we hear those stories, the the David and Goliath stories, 695 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: but I think that's in each of us. It's are 696 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: we going to let our our terrible animal brain win 697 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: or are we going to let the part of us 698 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: that has all of this incredible research and human history 699 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,359 Speaker 1: under our belts and say, oh, we can pick our 700 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: better angels. And I do think that that's a wonderful goal, 701 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, in the macro and the micro of life 702 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,240 Speaker 1: to be focused on. Thank you so much for joining 703 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: us today. 704 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 2: Thank you so what a great conversation. I appreciate it, 705 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:53,839 Speaker 2: and I appreciate your voice out there. 706 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: Thank you. We're here to support you. You tell me 707 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: where you need me, I'll get on a plane. 708 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Thank you, good 709 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: Luck the rest of the day, Take care, Bye bye.