1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and fifty four, 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: airing in mid June of twenty twenty two. Sarah is 12 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: going to be interviewing the Anxiety Sisters about their book 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: and about this topic of how we can deal with 14 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: life in this anxious world. So, Sarah, maybe you could 15 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: tell us why you wanted to do this interview and 16 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: why this one stuck out for you. Yeah, we for 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: listeners who are wondering, like, how do we find our guests. 18 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: I think we've talked about this a little bit, but 19 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: sometimes it's just someone Laura and I have come across 20 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: and think would be awesome. Sometimes people write us emails 21 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: and suggest other people or suggest themselves, and then we 22 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: get a lot of pitches from pr people who represent 23 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: authors and other speakers, and a lot of coaches, lots 24 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: and lots of coaches. Anyway, So this was a book 25 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: that kind of stood out from some of the others 26 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: that we've seen, just because I felt like it was 27 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: a topic that impacts everyone in so many different stages 28 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: of life, and it was a little, i don't know, 29 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: different from a lot of the fodder that is sent 30 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: to us. And it was all about anxiety. And it 31 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: was a book about anxiety told by two women who 32 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: have had a lot of experience with anxiety, but who 33 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: also want to give it an air of normalcy, talk 34 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: about different degrees of anxiety, and have a very friendly 35 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: and conversational tone when talking about a tough and potentially 36 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: anxiety provoking topic. Yes, anxiety itself can be anxiety provoking, 37 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: as they actually talk about in the book. So I 38 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: picked up the book and it was great, and so 39 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: we invited them to come on, and actually it was 40 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: going to be both sisters, but one of them was 41 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: on a river cruise in Europe, so it ended up 42 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: being one of the sisters, but she was great to 43 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: talk to, so I think you'll enjoy the interview. I 44 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: don't have clinical anxiety. I don't think, you know. Even 45 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: when I read the book, I didn't think I fit 46 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: like you know, true anxiety. But I think, like many 47 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: other people, I have lots of anxiety in my life. 48 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: And I don't think I have a single friend who 49 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: I can point to and be like, oh, that person 50 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: has no anxiety. Laura, you're on the lower end to 51 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: the anxiety. I don't know. I think I have plenty 52 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: of anxiety. Maybe I just don't show it. I don't know. 53 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: Maybe I feel like you fret about things less than 54 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: the average of my friends, but not zero, not zero, 55 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: no no, no no. And then we know that teens 56 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: and anxiety is a huge, big deal right now, and 57 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: so I don't know. Are there things in your life 58 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: that have improved your anxiety? Well, I think trying to 59 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: limit news consumption is part of it. And you know, 60 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: you recognize when you are in a more vulnerable place 61 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,839 Speaker 1: really don't want to have the news. And I sort 62 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: of remember, I mean this seems like ages ago now, 63 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: but shortly after Henry was born, there was the whole 64 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: bombing of a place in Iran where to kill one 65 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: of the generals, which I mean, I'm sure there are 66 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: many schools of thought on the foreign policy, and I 67 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: don't want to even remotely get into that. But I 68 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: was just like, well, a war with Iran would be 69 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: really terrible. So I was, you know, just very kind 70 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: of in that newborn mode. I'm like, I just cannot 71 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: read about this, Like I cannot follow the news about it. 72 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: I cannot. There's nothing I can personally do of whether 73 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: we're going to, you know, be in a nuclear war 74 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: with Iran, I mean little knowing that then people would 75 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: be worried about a newclear war with Russia. I mean, 76 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: who you know, it just the country moves around and 77 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: live through a pandemic as well. But so you know, 78 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: if anything else, it's helpful to remember that whatever you're 79 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: anxious about now, something else supplant it later. But that 80 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: was the time I remember just like consciously getting off 81 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: the internet, getting away from the news, not reading the newspaper, 82 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: not looking at anything filling you know, your life with 83 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: HGTV magazine or something. And you know, I guess there's 84 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: you want to be informed. But again, in the situation 85 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: where there is nothing you can personally do, then it 86 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: doesn't help to get that marginal extra news story about it. 87 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: Or you know, I think both of us when we 88 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: encounter a situation, we try to, you know, make a 89 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: donation to nonprofit that is doing work in the area, 90 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, consume news in very limited amounts of something 91 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: that's a reputable source for just a few minutes, and 92 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: then do other things. Fill your life with what you 93 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: can control. I also find that exercising, so running frequently, 94 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: getting outside those help as well. Yes, running totally helps. 95 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: Exactly what you said about the news. Social media, same thing, 96 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: because that can become very news heavy, especially when things 97 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: are stressful, and you can find yourself in a spiral 98 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: of like, oh my god, I've spent know an hour 99 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: hearing one hundred people's different hot takes on something that 100 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: you didn't need to be spending an hour on because like, yeah, 101 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: how were you going to fix it just by watching this? 102 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: And yeah, just filling your life with other things. I mean, 103 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: I was just thinking back to twenty twenty and why 104 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: you know, of course we were all you know, cnning 105 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: and looking at these sources, whatever your preferred source is 106 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: or was, and by the way, that's that's a source 107 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: that I don't love anymore because it feels very much 108 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: like they want a lot of page views by making 109 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: things seem as scary as possible, which is what I've 110 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: read is kind of how a lot of media has 111 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: to operate these days anyway, total sideline. But when you're 112 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: doing other things, when you're having a social engagement, when 113 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: you're going outside, when you're doing a craft, when you're 114 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: ready in a journal and playing with pens, like, you're 115 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: not going to be focusing on those things. So sometimes 116 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: just filling your life with things that are more valuable, 117 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: more calming, more fun in itself can actually help lower, 118 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: at least for me, my anxiety. Again, I don't have 119 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: clinical anxiety, so that's maybe very different in different degrees. Yeah, 120 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: I would also say again for people without the clinical 121 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: anxiety that needs to be treated or anything like that. 122 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: But if you're anxious about a certain event, sometimes it 123 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: helps to realize that you will be on the other 124 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: side of it. Like it can feel like this giant, 125 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: big cement truck in the road in front of you 126 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: that you can't see around, but like you will be 127 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: Like time keeps passing and if you are anxious about 128 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: a meeting, like eventually that meeting is going to be over, 129 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: like you're going to be on the other side of 130 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: that meeting and life will continue, no doubt for decades 131 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: after that. So it's just I think, you know, we 132 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: don't want to wish time away. I mean, we don't 133 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: want to fall too much into that trap, but we 134 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: have to see that that you know, you can picture 135 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: yourself on the other side of it. It also helps 136 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: to remind I mean I was saying this facetiously with 137 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: the like we've moved on to a different nuclear war. 138 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: But it's the truth is that things do change on 139 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: the you know, conditions change on the ground, and in 140 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: many cases, things that you are anxious about in the 141 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: past that are within your sphere of influence you have 142 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: dealt with and moved on from. Again, not the nuclear war, 143 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: which none of us personally can do anything about, but 144 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: if it is, say, you know how you're going to 145 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: deal with a difficult employee issue, like probably you've dealt 146 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: with those in the past, right and you know or 147 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: once you deal with this, you'll have insight for the 148 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: next time you experience this. So you are a capable 149 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: person and you can remind yourself of this that like 150 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: you have solved problems, like you have solved really bad problems, 151 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: and you've you know, figured out a way forward, and 152 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: so I think that can help with the anxiety too. Awesome. Well, 153 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: I hope everyone enjoys this interview. I really enjoyed doing it. Well. 154 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: I am so excited to welcome Maggie Maggie Sarah Check. 155 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: Did I say it right? You said it perfectly? Yeah, 156 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: I should check that prior, but I'm so excited to 157 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: welcome Maggie Sarah Check of the Anxiety Sisters onto this podcast. 158 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: We get a lot of emails about books that come out, 159 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: and this one really captured my attention because anxiety is 160 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: something so many of us struggle with, even you know, 161 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: from really mild degrees in specific situations to a much 162 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: more global, debilitating issue, and I felt like this book 163 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: covered all of those bases in like a really nice, 164 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: friendly tone. So I'm so excited to have you on. 165 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: Can you introduce yourself and tell us like where you are, 166 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: how old your kids are, and then of course you 167 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: can speak for your co author as well. Sure, So 168 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm MEGS from the Anxiety Sister on Maggie, and I'm 169 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: living now in Columbus, Ohio. But as I was telling 170 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: you before, I am a lifelong New Yorker, so came 171 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: from Manhattan. Then I moved to Hoboken, which is another 172 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: little city right next to Manhattan, so we didn't have 173 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: a car. And then we moved to Columbus, Ohio, which 174 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't have found on the map before we moved here, 175 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: but has been a happy surprise for us. And I 176 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: have two children, ages oh, nineteen and fifteen. Wow, Wow, 177 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: it goes so fast. Nineteen and fifteen. And then my 178 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: co anxiety sister is Abby, and she lives in New Jersey, 179 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: in Monroe, New Jersey. But again, she is from Florida 180 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: and has spent a lot of time in South Florida. 181 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: And she has three children. And I'm embarrassed, but her 182 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: oldest two daughters are well into their thirties, but I 183 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: think about thirty four, but I could be wrong somewhere 184 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: in their thirties, you know. And then her son is 185 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: twenty four to twenty five. Awesome, And I'm really hoping 186 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: I didn't get those ages very wrong. Well approximate works, well, okay, 187 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: I actually thought you were sister sisters when I read 188 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: the books, So I'm like, oh, they're not actually sisters. 189 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: You coined the term after you became good friends. How 190 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: did you connect with each other? Well, we met in college, 191 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: and Abby likes to say we sort of recognized nervous 192 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: expressions on our faces. But we became very very close friends. 193 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: And then after college, you know, we stayed very close, 194 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: and as our anxiety for both of us got worse, 195 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: we became really each other's touchdowns, and so we kind 196 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: of went through the process of anxiety together in many 197 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: different ways and really supported each other. And we reached 198 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: a point when we felt like we had done a 199 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: fair amount of work and healing and research where we 200 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: decided that we needed to sort of include others in 201 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: our little sorority of two. And that's how we became 202 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: the anxiety Sisters. No, that totally makes sense. Yeah, so 203 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: we're soul sisters. We're solis. Yes, I mean I literally 204 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: I read your book entirety, and I well, maybe it 205 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: was covered in the beginn and I forgot or something, 206 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: but I in the whole time I was thinking you 207 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: were both sisters. So I'm totally excited to hear that 208 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: it was it was a virtual sisterhood. Yes, we are sisters. 209 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: We just we fight like sisters, and we're just from 210 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: different mothers and fathers. And can you talk a little 211 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: bit about your journey with anxiety, whatever you feel comfortable 212 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: with sharing, or how it came into your life. We're 213 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: pretty much both open books. But so I realized much 214 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: later that I had had anxiety even as a fairly 215 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: young child. I had a lot of separation anxiety, and 216 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: I didn't name it that I didn't know sort of 217 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 1: what it was. And I had anxiety sort of all 218 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: the way through my life in different ways. But in 219 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: my twenties I ended up really dealing with severe panic 220 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: disorder agoraphobia, which is when I was pretty afraid to 221 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: be outside of my safe zone, which was my apartment 222 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: at the time. And I developed a lot of other phobias, 223 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: you know, phobias of driving, of being on trains, planes, elevators, 224 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: which was rough because I looped on the sixteenth floor 225 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: of a building in Manhattan and took the subway every 226 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: day and the bus every day. But I really developed very, 227 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: very severe phobias that affected my ability to function in 228 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: every way. It sounds like the less you were able 229 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: to do the less you were able to do, if 230 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense, Like it was like a circle. 231 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: It is a circle. It's it is exactly. It's sort 232 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: of like we call it the anxiety loop. And you 233 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: get into that loop, and the loop gets bigger and 234 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: bigger and bigger. It becomes very hard to get you 235 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: to sort of push your way out of the loop. 236 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: That is so hard, And how did you find your 237 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: way out? And I guess how did having kids interact 238 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: with that? Well? I have to say I was one 239 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: of those people that really held off having kids. I 240 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: mean I was married and met my husband and got 241 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: married pretty young and was married for a very long 242 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: time before I had kids. Yeah, we were together probably 243 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: fifteen years before we had kids, and that was in 244 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: large part because of my anxiety disorder, because I didn't 245 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: think I would be able to manage kids and feel 246 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: as I felt. And I guess Amy and I always say, 247 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: like our twenties, we called it the Decade of ours, right. 248 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: We went around, We went to every iss you could imagine, 249 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: the neurologists, the acupuncturists, the cardiologists, the past life regressionists, 250 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: I mean, anyone who would take our money. We were 251 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: going to help because we just wanted to feel better 252 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: and we didn't really know and believe that we had anxiety. 253 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: So each person gave us a little something right along 254 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: the way. And I ended up going to social work school. 255 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: I had always sort of been oriented that way and interested, 256 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,359 Speaker 1: and Abby ended up becoming a professor of communication, studying, 257 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: particularly self talk and the power of self talk. And 258 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: she was a communications professor for many years. And so 259 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: we just started sort of putting the pieces together between 260 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: therapy and medication and lots of alternative therapies and then 261 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: our professional lives and then really starting to talk to 262 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: people about anxiety. That was incredibly powerful. We have an 263 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: ethnography we've interviewed at this point thousands of women because 264 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: we hear we now hear from people through anxiety sisters 265 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: all the time. But we started interviewing people and saying, like, 266 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: what works in the real world, what works for you, right, 267 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: not in the academic world, because that's a completely different 268 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: thing than the real world. And then we started going 269 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: to conferences and interviewing the quote unquote experts anxiety and 270 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: just sort of putting that all together. And so as 271 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: we were starting anxiety sisters, we were more and more 272 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: coming to terms with our own anxiety. Do you think 273 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: that learning about anxiety helped with your anxiety? Yes, Before 274 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: we even start our website, we had been doing this 275 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: for several years. So twenty seventeen is when our website 276 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: sort of came up in this form, But we had 277 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: been working on this probably since twenty ten, I would say, 278 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: And in the beginning it was very anxiety provoking to 279 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: talk about anxiety, but as time went on, we kind 280 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: of found it's sort of exposure therapy, I would say. 281 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: So you kind of get exposed to talking about it 282 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: all the time and get much more comfortable with it, 283 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: and you hear other people's stories. And I think the 284 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: greatest thing to know is that no matter what your 285 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: anxiety level is, you are not alone. Yes, And I 286 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: think your book does such a nice like it has 287 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: such a playful, we're all in this together kind of tone, 288 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: and I can totally see how that could benefit people 289 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: who instead we're treating it as more of like this 290 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: big secret or this big thing that was special to themselves. Well, now, 291 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: oh go ahead, no, no, sorry, I was just going 292 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: to say, anxiety is like such a spectrum. I mean myself, 293 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: I'm definitely anxious about certain things and I totally have 294 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: a phobia. This will be a pop quiz for any 295 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: listeners who have been listening for a long time. Do 296 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: you know what my phobia is? Relatives? You don't count? 297 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: But do you feel like this is something that's starting 298 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: to be acknowledged as more universal that like, everyone has 299 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: some degree of anxiety? I mean is it is one 300 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: of the emotions we have, And if we didn't have anxiety, 301 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: we would never get out of bed, you know, and 302 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: get to work or you know, pick up our kids 303 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: or make dinner for the family. You know. And I've 304 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: had those days where i haven't done any of that. 305 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: So I'm not judging, but no, literally, anxiety does push 306 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: us forward, and we are starting to talk about it more. 307 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: I think the thing that I see is that while 308 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: people talk about mental health a lot more, the consequences 309 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: of mental health on someone's life are still not so 310 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: acceptable in society. So you know, we're, oh, you have 311 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: anxiety disorder or depression. I totally understand, but I don't 312 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: understand that you didn't make my party, or I don't 313 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: understand that you can't do carpool today, or that you 314 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: didn't get to work on time. You know, So the 315 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: there are these really inconvenient consequences of having true mental 316 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: health disorders. And I don't know that we've yet come 317 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: to the point where we've really accepted that piece. Yeah, 318 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: that makes sense. I mean even with physical health disorders, 319 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: I feel like people aren't always accepting in that piece. 320 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: And I think the barriers even higher for things that 321 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: you can't see outright, we are going to take a 322 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: quick ad break and then we're going to start talking 323 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: about some of the tips, because there were so many 324 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: in this book as well as, as I said, like 325 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: so much companionship. All right, we'll be right back. All right, 326 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: we are back, And because your book is chock full 327 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: of very actionable tips, I was interested in kind of 328 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: separing them out a little bit and first talking about, 329 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: like what are some things you might start with if 330 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: you're dealing with a much lower key anxiety, like nothing clinical, 331 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: nothing debilitating, but maybe it's the start of the school 332 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: year and you just find yourself like kind of circling 333 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: because there's so many moving parts in the air. I 334 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: will share that one of my favorite tips was the 335 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: creative outlet section. I was like, oh, yes, those are 336 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: some of my favorite things. And choosing the right calming 337 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: activity when you're in a certain state of mind has 338 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: definitely been something that I am learning over the years. 339 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: But that's great. Share some of your other favorites well, 340 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: for the low level in particular, a lot of self 341 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: talk and self compassion also for the high level. But 342 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: that self to talk, which is like, I've been through 343 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: this before. I know that this is a really hard time, 344 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: but I know that I'm going to get through it. 345 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: You know, I know it's really chaotic right now, but 346 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: I'm going to just, you know, do one thing at 347 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: a time and I'm going to get through it. Or 348 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: you know, this will pass. I know that this will pass. 349 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: So that really calm and kind way of reassuring yourself 350 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: and talking to yourself, and if you can do it 351 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 1: out loud, all the better. With everyone talking on their 352 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: cell phones all the time, I feel like we can 353 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: sort of talk to ourselves out loud. And then I 354 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: think there's the other the balance of making sure that 355 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: you are taking that time to refill your tank. And 356 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: I don't love the term self care. I don't know why, 357 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: but it just always annoys. It always sounds like massages 358 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: and bathsaal, so it goes straight to that. It does, 359 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: it does. A friend of mine recently said the term 360 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: restoration she likes better or self connection. So taking that 361 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 1: time to self connect. One of the best things any 362 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: of us can do, like research shows it time after 363 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: time after time again, is to get outside and get 364 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: into nature. However, we can do that. You don't even 365 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: have to exercise it nature. Just getting outside and being 366 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: in nature is one of the most powerful ways to 367 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: calm our heart rate, our respiration, our hormone, like our cortisols, 368 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: you know, like which you produce when you're very anxious. 369 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: It's like your body physiology actually changes when you're out 370 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: in nature. And so for people with a low level 371 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: anxiety who can get out in nature, that is one 372 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: of the things I would definitely recommend. I love that, 373 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: especially even when the weather is not great. Sometimes even 374 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: just a short little dose can be so much better 375 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: than nothing. Yes, or like worst case scenario, just stare 376 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: out a window and like wait for a bird to 377 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: come and like you know, or lot to storm, like 378 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: you're you know, you're like you're in it without even 379 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: having to be in it sometimes and if you can't 380 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: be outside, having plants in your house, believe it or not, 381 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: does unbelievable. Actually physiologically also does work. So any looking 382 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: out windows, having plants in your house anything really makes 383 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: a big difference, and a lot. I would say, have 384 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: cats or dogs, definitely, she would say animals. Yes, well, 385 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: my kids are certainly lobbying for that. And I could 386 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: see how how a pet, even for like an anxious child, 387 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: like such a beautiful gift, like Okay, it's something to hold. 388 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: It's something calming, thinking about like a you mentioned, I 389 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: think a pet like a cat purring in your lap 390 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: or something like that. Yes, it's a sensory calming. It's 391 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: very calming from a sensory point of view. And they've 392 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: done some new studies about kids with dogs having less 393 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: anxiety and better mental health than kids without dogs. I'm 394 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: now trying to sell my family on the idea of 395 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: a cat versus a dog. Yes, because to be quite honest, 396 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: I have so much anxiety surrounding a dog, whereas I 397 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: can see a cat. Yeah. No, No, a cat also 398 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: does the trick. It would be the benefits without the 399 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: stress stressors of ownership. No, I get that a cat 400 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: also has that soothing peace and like petting a cat. Yeah, 401 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: that's very soothing. It's unfortunately a hard sell on my husband, 402 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: but I'm working on it all right. Well, how about 403 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: more severe forms of anxiety? And you know, we have 404 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: a lot of new parents on this that listened to 405 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: best of both worlds. Yes, and I know postpartum or 406 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: peripartum anxiety is really really common and can be incredibly severe. 407 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: What are the best ways you've found in those scenarios 408 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: and in particular when it's time to seek out help 409 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: but you might be paralyzed because you're in an anxious state, 410 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: how do you reach out and get what you need? Well, 411 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: I think for new mothers it's especially fraud because I 412 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: think there's still that stereotype like, oh, you had a baby, 413 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: this is supposed to be the best time of your life. 414 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: You're supposed to be so happy, and that fear, especially 415 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: when you're your anxiety or depression or a lot of 416 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: mothers new mothers find themselves with like a lot of OCD, 417 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: a lot of obsessive compulsive disorder around the baby. When 418 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: that becomes really severe, I think a lot of mothers 419 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: fear like if I tell anyone, they're gonna think I 420 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: can't take care of my baby, you know, which is 421 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: not the case, but it is. It is a fear. 422 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: And the first thing to know is that women experience 423 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: more anxiety when our hormones are in flux in general, 424 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: and there is no time almost in your life that 425 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: there's such a dramatic hormonal shift as you know, childbirth 426 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: basically the day after childbirth, right after childbirth, childbirth, weaning, 427 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: when you stop breastfeeding. I found that was like a 428 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: crazy making time. And perimenopause, oh oh, menopause, perimenopause, puberty too, 429 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: But there's such an extreme when you give birth of 430 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: like in that twenty four hour period of a change 431 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: of hormones. And so know that people don't always talk 432 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: about it, but you're absolutely not alone with this, and 433 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: it's time to kind of if you have anyone around 434 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: you that you can really trust, you know, whether that's 435 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: a mother or a good friend, or your husband or 436 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: wife or whomever else is with you. It's really the 437 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: time where if you can't reach out, reach out to 438 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: them and have them help you reach out. There are 439 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: so many websites and I can get you some for 440 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: the show notes of you know, for postpartum depression or 441 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: postpartum anxiety, which is actually something really being recognized right now, 442 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: and you know that will help direct that person to 443 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: finding you some help. I love that. So when you're 444 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,719 Speaker 1: in a position where you can't even you know, you're 445 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: not able to handle reaching out of your that's so 446 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 1: interesting about being afraid of what people will think, which 447 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: is totally part of the whole thing itself. So that's 448 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: so hard to just like get to a friend, get 449 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: somebody else, and then have them do the legwork of 450 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: feeling out if anyone is around, and if no one 451 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: is around for you, then I really believe in the 452 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: crisis text line, and there are seven four one, seven 453 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: four to one. They have resources about everything, and they're 454 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: incredibly non judgmental and they help a lot of people. 455 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: They will help you find the resource that you need. Awesome, 456 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: and we'll definitely link to that as well. How about 457 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: since our podcast does focus a lot on working parenthood 458 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: working motherhood in particular, how about handling anxiety and professional settings. Now, 459 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: whether that is related to your professional activity yourself, like 460 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: you're afraid of speaking or you're afraid of I don't 461 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: know being interviewed or something like that. Do you have 462 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: tips for that or also how to talk about it 463 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: at work without inviting judgment or without maybe sharing more 464 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: than you want to, but still enough so that people 465 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,479 Speaker 1: understand and can help and be supportive. Right, And that 466 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: really depends on your workplace. I know you know that 467 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: it depends on what the environment is like, or what 468 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: your particular boss or supervisor is like, how much you 469 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: feel comfortable sharing. I think the thing about sharing at 470 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: work is doing that piece where you figure out what 471 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: do you need? What do I need, so that really 472 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: you come to whomever you're speaking with and kind of 473 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: talk about the thing that you that would the accommodation 474 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: you would need to make your life easier. You know, 475 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: do I need a speaking coach? That's a reasonable request. 476 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: You don't have to give a whole backstory. I want 477 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: to make sure I can do this in the best 478 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: way possible. You know, Do I need some adjustment and 479 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: hours so that I can pick up my kids and 480 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: figure this all out? But really figuring out what you 481 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: need and how you're going to make it work for 482 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: your company is kind of the goal. I think you 483 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: can share whatever you feel comfortable sharing. Obviously, but I 484 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: don't know that that's the ultimate important piece. I think 485 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: it's just like, Okay, I need this, and then this 486 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: is why the company wants to do this for me, 487 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: This is how it's going to work for that, This 488 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: is what I need so that it will benefit you, exactly. 489 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: That classic like always talk to your boss about like 490 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: how can I help company? Even more? I love that 491 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: example of a speaking coach, and you don't have to 492 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: say because you're anxious. You might just be like, I 493 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: want to be able to present my very best in 494 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: meetings and stressful presentations, So I think i'd really benefit 495 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: from a speaking coach, I like exactly. And then in 496 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: terms of you know, mothers, I mean, working mothers have 497 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: just such a big load on them in general, so 498 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, I think it really depends on what the 499 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: area that you're struggling with is. But I always say, like, 500 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: we all have to reach out for help as much 501 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: as possible, whatever kind of help will will help us, 502 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: and we you know, and we have to be willing 503 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: to help other people like this whole idea like I 504 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: can just fold it all together, nobody can. We working 505 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,959 Speaker 1: mother can, yes, And we try to emphasize that on 506 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: our show on a regular basis takes a village for 507 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: pretty much everyone. And if you think that you're going 508 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: to do every part by yourself and be happy and 509 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: smiling while doing it, then you've can fed a lot. Yes, definitely, definitely, 510 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: I mean so accepting that reality, yeah, well, is that 511 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: piece of real acceptance of like what your abilities and 512 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,239 Speaker 1: limitations are, you know in that And I don't mean 513 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: abilities like you can't do something, but just like we're 514 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: all just people, like none of us can do it 515 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: all perfectly. Yes, and you're right, Accepting that can go 516 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: a long way towards some anxiety that's based on the 517 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: idea that you are supposed to be achieving some very 518 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: specific instagram worthy ideal. Oh yes, yes, and your kids 519 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,479 Speaker 1: are supposed to be perfect and you're supposed to be 520 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: perfect and you're supposed to be great at your job 521 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: and it's not possible. It's just not possible. And so 522 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: it's like accepting and then figuring out, like, as much 523 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: as you can, what do I need? What do I 524 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: need right now? You know, for what will make my 525 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: life manageable? Because it doesn't stay that way for moms 526 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: of young children, like okay, it will always be this hard. 527 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: But having slightly older children, you know, I can tell 528 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: you that that piece changes. And so you know, if 529 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: I could speak to my younger self, I would have 530 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: said to myself, you know what, even if I have 531 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: to spend more money now, you know, or do something 532 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: that I wasn't thinking about doing now, it's worth it. 533 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: Because this is temporary. I am already getting a taste 534 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: of that. And because my kids are four, eight and ten, 535 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: and let me tell you, that's really different than zero. Yeah, 536 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: four and six yeah. And I can tell you so 537 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: that even in a fairly short period, it can get 538 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: a little bit, a little bit of the pressure comes out. 539 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: And we always also really believe in having something we 540 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: call a spin kit with you. So this is a 541 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: first aid kit for anxiety. And basically, like you would 542 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: carry an EpiPen if you have an allergy, you carry 543 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: a spin kit. So the spin kit has three different 544 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: types of things in it. One is something to if 545 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: your anxiety is really bad, something to give you a 546 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: little distraction. For me, like I sometimes carry a little 547 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: bit of crochet with me because like crafting helps. Some 548 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: people carry coloring or even just pictures of their pets, 549 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: or something non stressful or a beautiful scene to look 550 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: at and then have something that will help soothe your 551 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: senses and ground you. So when we get anxious, you 552 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: know how sometimes you can kind of feel like a 553 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: little bit like you're not quite in your body, can't 554 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: think straight. And so you know, some people like to 555 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: carry like a smell an essential oil, lavender, or some 556 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: people like to carry a mint because if you put 557 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: in like a strong altoid or something that can really 558 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: really ground you, like you just come back into your body. 559 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: Some people like to carry something very soft, you know 560 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: that they can just like have in their hands or 561 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: worry stone, something with a little bit of And I've 562 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: seen people who put a rubber band around their wrist 563 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: and they just kind of I'm forgetting the word, but 564 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: they just kind of like push the rubber band back 565 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: so it kind of hits them on the wrist, you know. 566 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: Little stimulation, Yeah, a little stimulation to get you back 567 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: in your to get us back in our body. And 568 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: we just suggest people carry this around in like a 569 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: small like makeup size bag and so that when you 570 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: have anxiety, you can pull out your spin kit. You 571 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: also may have some symptom relief in your spin kit. 572 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I forgot the third one. And so that 573 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: might be like t if you have a bad stomach, 574 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: it might be headache medicine, or if you take you know, 575 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,239 Speaker 1: at a van or xanax or something, it might be 576 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: one of those, so you know, something to help your 577 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: anxiety symptoms as well. I think that probably just the 578 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: presence of the kit itself and knowing it's there kind 579 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: of reminds you, like, you know what, Normally, I'm a 580 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: level headed person who packs myself a spin kit, so like, yes, 581 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm taken care of Yes. Us being prepared is like 582 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: half of the battle, because if you're prepared of the anxiety, 583 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: it can't sneak up on you. You're not like, oh 584 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: my god, what is going on? You know, Oh I'm anxious. 585 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to take something out of my spin kit. 586 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: And we call it a spin kit because sometimes the 587 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: word panic or anxiety makes us anxious, so we call 588 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: it spinning often. I love it just a gentle well. 589 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,479 Speaker 1: I think this is going to be filled with useful things, 590 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: and just the normalizing of anxiety along the spectrum from 591 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: mild to and pervasive to severe, I think is just 592 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: really a helpful way to think about it. And I 593 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: did want us to share our love of the week. Sure, 594 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: so you said something about nature, so I feel even 595 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: better about my love of the week. Mine is kind 596 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: of just like a thing that I did the other day, 597 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: which I will I triple test picking up my kids, 598 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: taking a walk, and calling my parents. I actually, I 599 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: mean I didn't really do all those things, but I 600 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,479 Speaker 1: drove to pick them, I parked like and I got 601 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: there a little bit early, and I was able to 602 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: take like a thirty minute walk in nice weather at 603 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: the end of the day, and then I used that 604 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: time to call my mom while I was walking, and 605 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: then I was there for pickups. So it was like 606 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: totally lovely and I was like, wow, three productive but 607 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: nice things to do at once. Yeah, and you did 608 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: like the connecting with your parents, Yes, there was a 609 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: major There was connecting. And then there's the practicality of like, okay, 610 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: my kids need to get picked up. And the movement 611 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: piece too, I mean, because that is something Also I'm 612 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: not saying go to the gym and pound, but any 613 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: kind of movement is something that really alters our moods. 614 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: So as much that is like perfect and then maybe 615 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: it was actually quadruple TSK take it gold fast, Yes 616 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: you did. I think my love of this Week happened 617 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: actually in our Anxiety Sisters community because we have a 618 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: really big Facebook community and we are on Instagram too, 619 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: but our Facebook community people tend to talk a lot, 620 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,919 Speaker 1: and then we have some support groups as well, and 621 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: in our community, someone was really really struggling with something 622 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: and you know, put it out there and I just 623 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: watched people saying like, oh, yeah, me too, I have 624 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: that too, and this is what I do. So it 625 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: really was like sort of going went on for quite 626 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: a while, like like maybe fifty sixty seventy comments of 627 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: people kind of empathizing and then sharing what they do. 628 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: And you know how the internet is often so mean, kid, 629 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: it was like a ganging up, but a positive ganging Yeah. 630 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: Our community is not, generally, I mean ninety nine percent 631 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: of the time is really really empathetic and kind. And 632 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: so someone came on and you know, was struggling and 633 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: people really opened up and that like just made me 634 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: feel so good. That is so nice. Yes, a very 635 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: safe and supportive place to go, Yes, definitely. Well, on 636 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: that note, remind everybody where they can find your community, 637 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: your book, and anywhere else that you and your anxiety 638 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 1: partner are living on the interneor you can find us. 639 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: We have a website www. Dot anxietysisters dot com. We're 640 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: on Instagram it's the Anxiety Sisters. We're on Facebook Anxiety 641 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: Sisters again. We have a podcast called The spin Cycle 642 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: that talks about all things anxiety. And you can always 643 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: always reach out to us at abs and Mags at 644 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 1: anxietysisters dot com and we answer every email we get, 645 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: so feel free to email us. It takes us a 646 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: few days, or you can private message us on Facebook 647 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: and we try to answer everything. And you have a book, 648 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, our book. I'm not a very good promoter. 649 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: Our book, The Anxiety Sister's Survival Guide. It was published 650 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 1: in September twenty twenty one by Random House and so 651 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 1: you can really find it anywhere that you find books. 652 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: I really recommended it has a lovely as I said, like, 653 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: if you just want to read about anxiety in a 654 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: very conversational, non anxiety provoking way that will make you 655 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: feel very not alone in the world, it is a 656 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: great book for you. Thank you so much. That's really sweet. Well, 657 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: it was wonderful to have you on. I hope Abby 658 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: enjoys the rest of her trip, but I loved having 659 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: one of you, and I'm sure our listeners will really 660 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: enjoy hearing all of this. So thank you so much. Oh, 661 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: thank you, well, that was great. Sarah was interviewing Maggie 662 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: Sarah Chek, who is one of the co authors of 663 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: The Anxiety Sisters Right to hear about them and what 664 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: they suggest for dealing with that so common issue. So 665 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: here's a slightly different question, totally different idea from a 666 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: listener who says she wants to hear from us about 667 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: planning to come back from an extended break, like a 668 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: year long sabbatical. I assume that this listener is an academic, 669 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: because that is often when this happens, that professors get 670 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: like a year to do their research every I don't know, 671 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: after seven or fourteen years or something like that. She says, 672 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 1: I have the summer to plan my return, but I'm 673 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: starting to slowly think about how or what I should 674 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: be mindful of as I do. I would love your 675 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: ideas about how we should think about this, about getting 676 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 1: back to work after a long time away or back 677 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,240 Speaker 1: to regular sorts of work after an extended time focused 678 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: on something else. So, Sarah, what do you think? Oh Man, 679 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,879 Speaker 1: I can't give you an expert opinion on this because 680 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: I can't. Even The closest thing I've had to be 681 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: sabbatical is three maternity leaves. Does that count? I don't know, 682 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: but it was fun to indulge in the fantasy of 683 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: having one and what I might think about doing. So 684 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,320 Speaker 1: just some ideas. I think if I were truly away 685 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: for a year, I would plan some one on one 686 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,800 Speaker 1: social catchup meetings with some of the people I wanted 687 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: to kind of just find out what I missed and 688 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: what's going on, and without having to do it like 689 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: all at once or in some big group setting. So 690 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: maybe like schedule a couple of lunches with some of 691 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: your favorite people that you work with, you can get 692 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: a sense of what's going on. I think if I 693 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: had had a sabbatical where I was digging deep on 694 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: some project or topic and I wanted to continue that 695 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: in some fashion, I would just really think about, like, 696 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: what was it, What part of that project can I 697 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: carry forward? Because it's probably not going to be the 698 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: whole thing, like you're not because you're not going to 699 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: have as much kind of free time to go so deep. 700 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: But if there's maybe some particular element that you can 701 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: identify and maybe write out a year's long plan of 702 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: how you might go about that. You don't always have 703 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: to commit to sticking exactly to the plan, and you 704 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: have to understand you're going to have more constraints than 705 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,240 Speaker 1: you had when you were on the sabbatical, but maybe 706 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: just doing a little bit of exploration of what you'd 707 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: want to carry forward. And then this one comes a 708 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: little bit cal Newport inspired and actually he answered a 709 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: similar question recently, which makes me wonder did you write 710 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: to him too, which would be kind of funny but cool. 711 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: And you know, really, when you're on about you're not 712 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: talking with anyone. That's kind of the big benefit. Nobody's 713 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: bothering you. So take advantage of that clean slate where 714 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: people might have kind of forgotten that you're someone who's 715 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: easily irritably available, and maybe think about ways you might 716 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: be able to streamline communication in the future because you 717 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: have this nice blank slate, like people weren't used to 718 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: being able to bug you all the time. And maybe 719 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: if you you know, are like okay, Friday is my 720 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: office hours for that's when students should reach me. Or like, 721 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: you know, you have an assistant that you're an administrative 722 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: assistant and she used to text you all day, but 723 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: you could come back and be like, Hey, I want 724 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: to try this new thing where we do check ins 725 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: on Wednesday afternoons and Friday afternoons at four and otherwise 726 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: unless something's urgent, let's wait for those meetings. Things like that, 727 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: like thinking about maybe ways in which that constant availability 728 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: that you've got to break from could be preserved in 729 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: some fashion. Yeah, that sounds like great ideas, and you 730 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: know things that think about what you missed while you're 731 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: on sabbatical, if there's anything you know because you want 732 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,359 Speaker 1: to make sure that you put that back in your life, 733 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: and also think about what you really didn't miss and 734 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: think about it if there are ways that you can 735 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: keep that out of your life as much as possible. 736 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 1: But in keeping with our theme of anxiety for this episode, 737 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,479 Speaker 1: I would note that you don't need to overthink this, okay, Like, yes, 738 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: you are away from your normal responsibilities for a while. 739 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: Now you are resuming them again, but it will all 740 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: be fine, Like you don't need to hold yourself to 741 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: creating a perfect new schedule or perfect new work style, 742 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: because life always happens. There's no point in being disappointed 743 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: if you can't take the aspects of the sabbatical you 744 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: loved into the year. That's why we have sabbaticals in 745 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: certain jobs so that you can devote the time to it. 746 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: So I think it might help to review what you 747 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: did over the sabbatical and sort of remind yourself that 748 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: you had time for these things, so you don't immediately 749 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 1: jump into this like woe is me, I don't have 750 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: any time to focus anymore. It's like, okay, well you 751 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: had a year to focus. I mean, it's the same 752 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: thing with I whine speaking with a lot of people 753 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: who are coming back from maternity leaves and they're like, 754 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: I'm not spending much time with my kid during this 755 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 1: first time back when it's crazy because they're getting caught 756 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: up on everything. It's like, but you just spent four 757 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,839 Speaker 1: months with your children, like all day long, Like does 758 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 1: that count for something? Like? Remember you had a season 759 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: that you were very into that, and now you have 760 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: a season where you're gonna have to be a little 761 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: bit more into work. But it will all probably balance 762 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: out over the time. Well, this has been best of 763 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: both worlds. Sarah has been interviewing Maggie from The Anxiety's Sisters. 764 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,919 Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more on making 765 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: work in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can 766 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at 767 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me 768 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the 769 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time 770 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: for more on making work and life work together.