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Speaker 1: Good afternoon, and welcome to another episode a Weizian House.

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Speaker 1: This episode is titled know Your Rights. Before I delve

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Speaker 1: into the deep matter of knowing our rights, let me

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Speaker 1: give you a quick quiz a true or false? True

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Speaker 1: or false? Unhoused people have no civil rights. If you

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Speaker 1: said false, because the police finds ways to criminalize cite

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Speaker 1: unhoused people, do council members and business owners vigilante pressure,

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Speaker 1: then you are correct. If you said true because on

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Speaker 1: house people are protected by the US Constitution and Martin

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Speaker 1: versus Voises Knife Circuit Court ruling which state that is

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Speaker 1: true and unusual punishment to criminalize unhouse people living and

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Speaker 1: trying to survive when there are no adequate shelters and

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Speaker 1: lodging to be had in the country, then you are

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Speaker 1: also true. It is also a crime to prevent people

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Speaker 1: from sleeping, sitting, and resting on sidewalks and parks, so

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Speaker 1: you also are correct. Now, let's look at the Webster's

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Speaker 1: definition of what criminal is. Webster's definition of criminal states

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Speaker 1: a person who committed a crime. Okay, let's look at

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Speaker 1: it from another angle. What about a lawbreaker? A lawbreaker

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Speaker 1: is an act punishable by law considered an evil act. Now.

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Speaker 1: I want you to consider for a moment what happens

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Speaker 1: when law enforcement council members break the law and criminalize

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Speaker 1: in house. This episode addresses this. Joining us in the

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Speaker 1: studios today is executive director Calf Rogers and Tariq Shalti,

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Speaker 1: who will discuss this matter at limit. But first letters

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Speaker 1: look into unhoused news. In San Antonio, police officer handed

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Speaker 1: a feces sandwich to an unhousedman, wins his termination appealed.

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Speaker 1: I want you to consider that Joanne o'tero, an unhoused woman,

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Speaker 1: was brutally murdered looking for a place to sleep. Twenty

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Speaker 1: nine year old Carlos Uriels assaulted the woman, who succumbed

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Speaker 1: to her traumatic injuries to her chest. Kid Morton in Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: Ohio or Cincinnati, Ohio, I'm sorry. An unhoused man froze

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Speaker 1: to death at a bus stop one Santiago. An unhoused

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Speaker 1: man who was beaten into a coma sheds tears before

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Speaker 1: dying with his dog Cheto by his side. In Los Angeles, California,

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Speaker 1: rapper Blueface humiliates the in housed, and an Instagram video

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Speaker 1: of throwing money in the air while unhoused people strumble

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Speaker 1: on all fours to get their financial blessing. As Tiffany

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Speaker 1: Hattish called it, here's my response to that train wreck

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Speaker 1: in my outra. Please listen to that fervor. Family of

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Speaker 1: seven in Atlanta lose their home to a fire, then

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Speaker 1: become unhoused. In Houston, Texas, Houston Police force forces and

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Speaker 1: throws away donated food donated to unhouse people allows their blankets,

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Speaker 1: leaving them with nothing to survive the wintry winters. So

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Speaker 1: with all that said, let us look into our interview

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Speaker 1: today with James, an unhoused resident of Echo Park and

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Speaker 1: his experiences with being unhoused. James is an Echo Park

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Speaker 1: resident who has been targeted and harassed by the park rangers,

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Speaker 1: law enforcement, and homeowners in the area consistently. He's going

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Speaker 1: to tell us about his experiences recently with a sweep

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Speaker 1: that targeted on house people during a razy Christmas Eve.

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Speaker 1: This is THEO Henderson whey On Howes. I'm going down

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Speaker 1: across the street from Echo Park after the aftermaths of

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Speaker 1: what happens when you displaced on house people with a

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Speaker 1: short period of time. I'm talking to what's your name,

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Speaker 1: Sir James, James and he's going to tell us what

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Speaker 1: he his experience in his own words. What happened? James,

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Speaker 1: tell us what happened this morning? I came back to

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Speaker 1: Tackle Park and we had gone to a clothing thing

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Speaker 1: this morning, and so when we got back, it was abrupt.

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Speaker 1: They were making everybody take their stuff down and move

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Speaker 1: the tents out, and we had to drag our stuff around.

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Speaker 1: One of our friends was handcuffed, and I had an

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Speaker 1: appointment to go to, so I literally had to leave

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Speaker 1: all my stuff to my family and my friend and

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Speaker 1: my tentmate to help get that picked up and go

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Speaker 1: to my gr appointment. So this was I almost didn't

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Speaker 1: think my stuff was going to get picked up and

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Speaker 1: make my appointment. So it was really big inconvenience, really,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was like, hey, without you were going

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Speaker 1: to do it yesterday, but it was raining. You guys

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Speaker 1: clean every time, you know, and we keep it pretty clean.

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Speaker 1: We don't make messes. We pick up after ourselves for

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Speaker 1: the most part, So I don't know, it's frustrating. This

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Speaker 1: is a reality at a house people. What he's draws

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Speaker 1: a very clear distinction. Many people stay on house people

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Speaker 1: don't want help. But here's the catch. Twenty two when

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Speaker 1: you're going to trying to get yourself out on your

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Speaker 1: feet like a gr appointment, and you have to leave

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Speaker 1: your things just like anybody else that has a house.

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Speaker 1: You cannot lug everything with you because they have restrictions

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Speaker 1: that requirement. And if you can't do that and you

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Speaker 1: leave it unattendant and something like this an an announced sweep,

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Speaker 1: you get all of your possessions taken. Thus you start

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Speaker 1: all over. So how does what would you want the

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Speaker 1: rest of the audience to hear about this? Just that

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Speaker 1: we're a community out here too. We can coexist as

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Speaker 1: communities together, like we can work things out, like we've

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Speaker 1: tried to do our part, like we're people too, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of us want to get back on our feet,

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Speaker 1: but we need the stability to be able to do

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Speaker 1: that really honestly, and it works. The public doesn't offer

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Speaker 1: the stability because of the virtual that is going on

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Speaker 1: from these heads, the leaders from the Mayor's, Mitchell, Pharaoh,

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Speaker 1: other politicians who believe that we are the problem and

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Speaker 1: we need to find somewhere. What is your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: I went to city Hall yesterday and I'm willing to

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Speaker 1: inform all of us because this affects us that I

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Speaker 1: would sit again listening and they stated that they only

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Speaker 1: have monies for six hundred beds. However, they only the

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Speaker 1: county was only going to give approximately a right five

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifteen million dollars. They're not going to extend

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Speaker 1: the budget to the ongoing crisis. So what that means

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Speaker 1: is that they have no more money really to give

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Speaker 1: to help unhouse people. But what they do have is

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Speaker 1: more money that they allocated for the police budget. The

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Speaker 1: police budget, I want to remind you, has already bloated.

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Speaker 1: But that police budget is already eighty percent of their

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Speaker 1: calls are on unhoused people. So you can see where

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Speaker 1: this is going. What is your thoughts on that? I

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Speaker 1: will please do their their job, but I mean, we

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Speaker 1: work with the police, so why would they take that

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Speaker 1: from us? If they don't want to deal with this,

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Speaker 1: then why would you take money from helping and continuing

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Speaker 1: to help us get on our feet. The craasy is

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Speaker 1: why would they give what be okay with having that money?

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Speaker 1: Why isn't the police unions saying why don't you take

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Speaker 1: this money that we cannonate to the crisis instead of

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Speaker 1: them calling us over these crazy reasons and help them

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Speaker 1: build some beds for them so we are not seen

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Speaker 1: as the bad guy. But that's too much like right, Mona,

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Speaker 1: you have something else you wanted to say, And then

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Speaker 1: if you see everybody that you're noticing that we left

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Speaker 1: the park and then we found ourselves in front of

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Speaker 1: a church because the Lord looks out for us. Yeah. Incidentally,

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Speaker 1: she mentioned some religious reference about how what would Jesus do?

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Speaker 1: And it seems like the most of the people are

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Speaker 1: that claim that they are good people are Christians, seem

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Speaker 1: to be working against the message about ministry, about serving

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Speaker 1: the poor, feeding and clothing the unclosed and naked, and

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Speaker 1: helping people when they are on their not at their best.

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Speaker 1: Instead we're lambasting them or telling them that they're going

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Speaker 1: to hell or pointing fingers that that's their problem and

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Speaker 1: they are being punished by God instead of doing the

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Speaker 1: altruistic Christian like response. This is theo Henderson from Wiedow

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Speaker 1: on house. I'm going to cut see if I can

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Speaker 1: find a few more and then give their experiences. Thank you, Jan,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. Thank you James. I've got to

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Speaker 1: access questions, But how did you become on house? Well?

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Speaker 1: I came out of the Dream Center, and I chose

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Speaker 1: to Echo Park because it's a safe place to be

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Speaker 1: and it's a place where people can come in it

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Speaker 1: and there's no violence, there's no drama really, and so

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Speaker 1: it was a place where I felt like I could

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Speaker 1: find a family and connection and really be out here.

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Speaker 1: And for me, it's out here ministering and going to

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Speaker 1: church and trying to live that lifestyle as well too,

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Speaker 1: but it's being having nothing makes you more humble to

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Speaker 1: be out here. So I don't know, it's so how

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Speaker 1: long have you been unhused about five out of seven

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Speaker 1: months here in California? What brought you here to California?

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Speaker 1: The Dream Center originally the Dream Center originally brought him

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Speaker 1: here and after being expelled out of the Dream Center,

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Speaker 1: you became living in the park. What is the challenges

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Speaker 1: did you face? What is the hardest thing about being

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Speaker 1: at house. I'm the shelter part, like having the tents

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Speaker 1: and blankets and stuff to stay warm, but was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I had to rely on the people here for that,

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Speaker 1: and there's not a lot of that outsource. So I'm

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Speaker 1: thankful for the people here that had that stuff to

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Speaker 1: help me. So I mean there's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: outsource to help with that kind of stuff, tense and sleepings,

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Speaker 1: So you're basically relying on the community of unhoused people

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Speaker 1: that understands the situation, which the society should be doing

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Speaker 1: that part as well as being understanding. Is that correct? Yeah? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: Thank you James for telling me your story again, if

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Speaker 1: it's okay, if I come back and follow up an

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Speaker 1: update later, absolutely, thank you very much. Our next guest

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Speaker 1: is becoming a legal giant in the air of Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: I can attest to her legal acumen because she helped

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Speaker 1: me out of a harassing situation by the City of

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles Department of Recreations employee and their staff, as

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Speaker 1: well as the city council member the LAPD at what

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Speaker 1: they targeted and coordinated harassment along with the neighborhood prosecuted

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Speaker 1: and Business Improvement District owner George you So Cap. Rogers

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Speaker 1: is the executive director of the National Lawyer's Guild. At

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Speaker 1: Rick Huti is a defense lawyer that deals with dealing

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Speaker 1: with people that have legal troubles and they are unhoused.

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Speaker 1: So let us please welcome Kath Rogers and Trek Shout.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Lisian House. This is Theo

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Speaker 1: Henderson for the second episode or second part series of

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Speaker 1: the Know You're Rights episode. We are in the studios

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Speaker 1: with Tarek Shalkey, the criminal defense attorney and executive director

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Speaker 1: Cath Rogers of the National Lawyer's Guild. We also have

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Speaker 1: a legal student by the name of Ada. So at

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Speaker 1: the X we're just going to go around and have

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Speaker 1: a little brief infrotroduction and then we will delve into

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Speaker 1: the meat of the podcast. Let's start with Cath. Hi. Everyone,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to be with you. This is Cath Rogers

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Speaker 1: with the National Lawyers Guild, and the National Lawyer's Guild

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Speaker 1: has long fought the criminalization of homelessness and we actually

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Speaker 1: run to homeless legal citation clinics, So if anyone out

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Speaker 1: there is interested, these clinics will help represent you if

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Speaker 1: you have a citation and infraction citation that's related to

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Speaker 1: your homelessness. So just as an example, some of the

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Speaker 1: things that we represent people on are forty one to

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Speaker 1: eighteen d or sitting or lying down on public property,

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Speaker 1: the shopping cart ordinance, open container, some vending related ordinances,

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Speaker 1: oversized vehicles, things like that that are infractions, and we

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Speaker 1: have one in Venice which is run in collaboration with

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Speaker 1: Venice Justice Committee and that's the first Sunday of every

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Speaker 1: month from one to three pm. And then we have

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Speaker 1: one on skid Row which is the third Wednesday of

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Speaker 1: every month from six to eight pm, and that one

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Speaker 1: is in partnership with LA CAN and it's actually held

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Speaker 1: at LA CAN. So if you're a volunteer and you

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Speaker 1: want to help out at the clinics, we would love that.

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Speaker 1: And if you are unhoused and you have a citation

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Speaker 1: related to your homeless as, please come check out the

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Speaker 1: clinics and we'll represent you for free. Hello everyone, thank

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Speaker 1: you THEO for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 1: And my name is Tarak Shaky. I'm a criminal defense attorney,

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Speaker 1: former public defender, and in my experience, I've found that

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Speaker 1: those who are in house or those who tend to

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Speaker 1: be on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum tend

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Speaker 1: to get a lot more. They tend to be on

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Speaker 1: the front lines when it comes to police interactions and

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Speaker 1: police encounters. Cops are a lot more likely to target

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Speaker 1: folks who have less money. So I've found in my

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Speaker 1: time As a PDA, I've tried to do a lot

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Speaker 1: of legal trainings, know your rights workshops and giving folks

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Speaker 1: the tools and the skills so that they can flex

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Speaker 1: their muscles, exercise their rights and be able to push

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Speaker 1: back and know what the boundaries are so they could

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Speaker 1: safely protect themselves from the long arm of the law

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Speaker 1: that often crosses the lines that they shouldn't cross. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's get down to the meat of the no matter,

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Speaker 1: why are we having an excellent meal? Can you tell

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Speaker 1: me on how's community, how your guilt helps some cath Sure? Well,

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Speaker 1: the main thing right now is the two monthly legal

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Speaker 1: clinics that we run for infraction citations that I just

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Speaker 1: went over. We also have a number of lawyers, namely

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Speaker 1: Carol Sobell, Brooke Weitzman, Kathy Sweetzer, who have long fought

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Speaker 1: for the criminalization of homelessness. Some people might have heard

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Speaker 1: of the case of Jones versus the City of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: and that was a case back in two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: and that case is not binding precedent because the decision

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Speaker 1: was ultimately vacated because it's settled. But basically there's a

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Speaker 1: decision that you can still look up, and it's a

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Speaker 1: really powerful and influential decision, even though it's not precedent

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Speaker 1: setting that basically strikes down the City of LA's law

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Speaker 1: that bans sitting or lying down on public property, imaginal

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Speaker 1: law that bans sitting or lying down on public property,

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Speaker 1: and how that affects people who are unhoused. It's basically

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Speaker 1: only intended to affect people who are homeless, right, it's

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Speaker 1: never enforced against housed residents. And the decision that is

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Speaker 1: not published but is again very influential, says that that

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Speaker 1: it strikes down the law. It says it's unconstitutional because

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Speaker 1: people who are homeless have no alternative to sleeping in public. There's, frankly,

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Speaker 1: so many more people who are unhoused than there are

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Speaker 1: shelter beds available for them. So there are people on

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Speaker 1: the street who have no alternative. They have no place

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Speaker 1: to go other than be on the public sidewalk. And

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Speaker 1: the decision says that sleep is unavoidable. It's a physiological

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Speaker 1: human need. Everyone needs to sleep, right, we can't. The

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Speaker 1: case actually says we cannot exist in a state of

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Speaker 1: perpetual motion. We can't be walking constantly. So basically, these

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Speaker 1: individual have absolutely no choice but to fall asleep on

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Speaker 1: the public sidewalk. And so you can't criminalize someone for

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Speaker 1: their very existence. So this case actually said that it's

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Speaker 1: unconstitutional under the Eighth Amendment. The Eighth Amendment, for constitutional

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Speaker 1: scholars in the audience, bans cruel and unusual punishment, and

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Speaker 1: so basically, usually we think of the Eighth Amendment as

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Speaker 1: banning things like really inhumane forms of torture or disproportionate,

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Speaker 1: disproportionate punishments like think about, you know, the death penalty

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Speaker 1: for shop minor shoplifting or something like that. That would

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Speaker 1: all be unconstitutional under the Eighth Amendment. But here the

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Speaker 1: court is actually saying that you can't ban or you

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Speaker 1: can't criminalize someone for their very existence, something that they

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Speaker 1: can't control, just by the nature of their very existence.

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Speaker 1: So our very incredible attorney, Carol Sobel, was the litigator

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Speaker 1: in that case. And ultimately it's settled, and it basically

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Speaker 1: now the settlement requires that the sit in lie law

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles cannot be enforced between nine pm and

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Speaker 1: six am. So that's what the settlement holds, and that's

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Speaker 1: still effective in LA I was going to ask just

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a follow up question on that,

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Speaker 1: how does the police get around that? If do you

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Speaker 1: have because I've noticed that they sometimes do run up.

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Speaker 1: For example, I had an incident where a park ranger

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Speaker 1: at the park tried to run me out of the

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Speaker 1: partner in daytime hours. You said you can't be here,

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Speaker 1: and I says, why can't I be here? It's not

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Speaker 1: after ours and at the time it was brought almost

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Speaker 1: ten eleven o'clock in a day. So why do they

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Speaker 1: feel that they can use at a target unhouse people. Well,

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Speaker 1: one thing, okay, so one thing that we've seen a

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Speaker 1: lot with law enforcement against people who aren't house is

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Speaker 1: that it's sort of like if law enforcement can't use

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Speaker 1: one thing, they're going to another thing. It's like whack

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Speaker 1: a mole, like the law enforcement is going to figure

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Speaker 1: out some workaround where they're going to try to criminalize people.

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Speaker 1: And they also do violate people's rights, right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we can tell you what your rights are, but we

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Speaker 1: can't necessarily say that law enforcement knows you know your

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Speaker 1: rights and can't. Oh and cops on the beat are

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Speaker 1: not always the ones who actually understand the law right,

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Speaker 1: so they are constantly finding new ways to criminalize people

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Speaker 1: who are, and especially people living in poverty and people

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Speaker 1: living on the street. This question is for Taric, what

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Speaker 1: happens if I am jammed up by the police who

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Speaker 1: doesn't know or care about the ruling of the laws

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Speaker 1: and or my civil rights. It's a great question because

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Speaker 1: it happens all the time where people get arrested for

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Speaker 1: things that are not illegal. I didn't mention that. I'm

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Speaker 1: also remember the lawyer's guilt. The Cath's kind of like

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Speaker 1: my boss because she runs the Oregon We we follow

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Speaker 1: her brave leadership and into battle. But the reason I

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Speaker 1: thought of that is that we have cases where people

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Speaker 1: come to us where they get arrested for existing arrest

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Speaker 1: and that's basically the whole basis of their crime. They

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Speaker 1: got arrested for existing arrest. They go to court and

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Speaker 1: they have a whole trial where the prosecutor is basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to convict them of resisting arrest. But

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Speaker 1: you ask them what's the underlying offense, like, well, there

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Speaker 1: isn't one. They just were not cooperating with their arrests.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, well, you know, how are you arresting

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Speaker 1: somebody who didn't break the law. And it's like cat said,

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Speaker 1: you know, they find ways to criminalize people that they

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Speaker 1: want to criminalize, even if it's for nothing, but not

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Speaker 1: complying with an unlawful arrest and saying, you know, you

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Speaker 1: should have cooperated when we told you you're under arrest

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Speaker 1: for nothing. And then when the person doesn't, all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, they you know, drag them to court and

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Speaker 1: throw a jury in the box and try to paint

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Speaker 1: them to look like the boogeyman and the bad guy

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Speaker 1: and a violent offender and every day of the week.

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Speaker 1: So I've learned a few tools through a lot of trials,

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Speaker 1: a lot of experiences, from sharing a lot of stories

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Speaker 1: and hearing a lot of stories. I think number one

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Speaker 1: is the same way that police officers now have body

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Speaker 1: cameras and can record interactions, we also have the right

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Speaker 1: to record interactions, and a lot of times that's your

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Speaker 1: best defense, because you know, a lot of people go

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Speaker 1: to courton if they have prior records and prior arrests,

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Speaker 1: and it's a he said, she said kind of situation. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: jurors are more inclined to believe the law enforcement officer

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Speaker 1: because they want to believe that they're honest and upstanding

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Speaker 1: officers who don't break the law and don't harass good

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Speaker 1: people for no reason. So until a jurrasey is a

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Speaker 1: video of you know, somebody getting dragged out of their

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Speaker 1: tent or you know, dragged across the sidewalk for nothing,

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Speaker 1: and you know, being thrown in the back of the car,

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Speaker 1: they don't believe it when that person gets up there

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Speaker 1: and said, I got arrested for nothing. So I tell

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Speaker 1: them record the interaction, even just an audio recording, is

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Speaker 1: often very persuasive to a jury when they hear the

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Speaker 1: tone of the officer. You know, they hear the person saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, what's going on, officer? What have I done?

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Speaker 1: You know, did I you know, break the law? And

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Speaker 1: a lot of times it's just obscenities from the law

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Speaker 1: enforcement officer grabbing them, throwing them the car, and then

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Speaker 1: citing them for resisting arrest. I will say, though, as

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Speaker 1: a caveat, when you do record the interaction, try to

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Speaker 1: do it discreetly. Because police officers are human. They know

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Speaker 1: that when somebody catches them doing something wrong, they're going

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Speaker 1: to find a way to cover their tracks, right, So

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Speaker 1: if they see you holding the phone in front of

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Speaker 1: you as they're engaging in illegal police misconduct, They're going

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Speaker 1: to find an excuse to take that phone from you

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Speaker 1: and delete the footage. So ideally you help somebody out

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Speaker 1: when you see them being you know, mistreated by pulling

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Speaker 1: out your phone and recording them from a safe distance.

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Speaker 1: When when I say safe distance, ideally you want to

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Speaker 1: record them from a distance where the officers aren't going

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Speaker 1: to be able to run up to you and take

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Speaker 1: the phone from you. And I always tell people, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes the best thing to do is when you see

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Speaker 1: a police encounter where you know, you know something's wrong,

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Speaker 1: across the street to the other side of the street,

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Speaker 1: where it's a lot less likely that they're gonna leave

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Speaker 1: the scene of the incident to cross the street to

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Speaker 1: go grab your phone. If you run up to them

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Speaker 1: so you can get the best shot, chances are you're

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Speaker 1: gonna lose your phone in that in that moment. So

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Speaker 1: sometimes it means, you know, standing back behind a tree

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Speaker 1: across the street, standing behind a car and trying to

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Speaker 1: be discreet about it, you're less likely to be able

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Speaker 1: to keep that footage. If you're standing over there, youing, hey, pig,

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Speaker 1: I got you on camera. I'm gonna give this to

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Speaker 1: the Channel seven News. You know, they may they may

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Speaker 1: make it a point to come and get that from you.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things is recording audio and video.

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Speaker 1: Recording definitely makes a huge difference. I've gotten a lot

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Speaker 1: of cases dismissed based on audio or video footage because

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Speaker 1: that's undeniable. You know, if they could sit there and

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Speaker 1: tell me all day oh with your clients lying, we

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Speaker 1: don't believe him, blah blah blah. But as soon as

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Speaker 1: you hit play and they say it for themselves, suddenly

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Speaker 1: that case is getting dropped real fast. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: the best, the best way in this day and age.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's got a cell phone, everybody's got you know, smart

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Speaker 1: watches now, and you know options, so you those options

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Speaker 1: to your defense. The other thing to do is to

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Speaker 1: file reports. And you know a lot of people tell me, well,

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Speaker 1: why would I go file a report on a cop?

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Speaker 1: How's that ever going to help me? It seems like

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Speaker 1: a waste of time and it's just going to make

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Speaker 1: them hey me more. I'm not going to do it again.

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Speaker 1: In my experience, if you have a dirty cop, chances

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Speaker 1: are you're not the first person that he's done dirty.

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Speaker 1: Then if he has enough complaints in his file, then

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Speaker 1: as a defense attorney, I can get access to those

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Speaker 1: files before trial. If someone tells me, hey, this cop

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Speaker 1: is dirty, he did this to me, I could file

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Speaker 1: a quest with the court. The court and tell the judge, Hey,

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Speaker 1: this guy, you know has a dirty conduct and I

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Speaker 1: want to see if he has other misconduct, and the

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Speaker 1: judge will read my emotion, He'll go into the personnel

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Speaker 1: file and if the guy's personnel file has ten complaints

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Speaker 1: for similar misconduct, I get those complaints and I can

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Speaker 1: call each of those ten people's witnesses. And I've actually

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Speaker 1: seen police officers get fired because of this, because you know,

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Speaker 1: once you have ten witnesses coming and saying this guy's

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Speaker 1: dirty and uses excessive and he lies in his reports,

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Speaker 1: then eventually the DA is going to stop prosecuting his

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Speaker 1: cases because they're going to keep losing his cases, and

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Speaker 1: he becomes not only a liability to the department, but

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Speaker 1: he becomes financially a burden on a department where they

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Speaker 1: can get convictions from a guy because he's unethical. So

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Speaker 1: I tell people, file the report, whether or not I

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Speaker 1: think it's going to go anywhere, file it because if

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Speaker 1: nothing happens on your end, at least on my end.

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Speaker 1: You know, if enough of these happen and people step forward,

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Speaker 1: then eventually these people can get fired, which is the goals.

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Speaker 1: If you want to fire dirty cops and people want

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Speaker 1: help with and if people want help with police complaints,

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Speaker 1: contact the National Lawyer's Guild and we can help you

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Speaker 1: file a police complaint. So those are the two of

430
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: the most effective ways that I can tell your listeners.

431
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: I was going to say that very same thing. Like

432
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: four years ago, I had a situation where I was

433
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 1: surrounded by thirteen cops and I tried to go around there,

434
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: and their way of mitigating the situation is they will

435
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: try to intimidate you. So this is very good. You

436
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: don't go alone because they are not going to take

437
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: you seriously or they're going to paint you off as

438
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: they're doing their job to have legal advice. I'm going

439
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: to backtrack a little bit and ask both of you

440
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: guys this question. What are your thoughts about the Supreme

441
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: Court ruling or lack of ruling thereof recently, So give

442
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: us a little snapshot. What this what we're talking about,

443
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: and how does this apply to unhoused rights? Okay, Well,

444
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: today actually was the Supreme Court basically decided not to

445
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: grant cerciori in a case called Martin v. Boise, and

446
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: it was a Ninth Circuit case that was decided earlier

447
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: this year. That was basically great for unhoused rights, and

448
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: we were all kind of worried, given the current nature

449
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court, whether the Supreme Court was going

450
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: to take it on. The anti unhoused lawyers were fighting

451
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: really hard and lobbying really hard to get cities and

452
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: counties to all write amicus letters and briefs to basically

453
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: ask the Supreme Court to take this issue on. And

454
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: today the Court decided not to grant certiory. And in

455
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: order to grant cert you need four Supreme Court justices

456
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: to say yes, we want to hear this matter. Today

457
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: they said no. Apparently they didn't have four and they

458
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: didn't take it on. So they denied this this they

459
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: denied cert and basically the Martin v. Boise Ninth Circuit

460
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: decision is going to stand, and that's a really important

461
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: decision for a number of reasons. So basically, earlier this

462
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: year twenty nineteen, in Boise, they held that a municipal

463
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: ordinance that criminalizes sleeping, lying down, or sitting down on

464
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: all public property at all times. It's unconstitutional. So you

465
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: may recognize that fact pattern from the Jones decision that

466
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: I talked about earlier. It's basically the exact same thing

467
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 1: they actually quote from the Jones decision in LA. So

468
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like a copy paste almost of

469
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: Jones in terms of the fact pattern, in terms of

470
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: the logic, they actually use a lot of the quotes

471
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: from that decision. But they basically said, under the Eighth Amendment,

472
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: it's cruel and unusual to ban sitting or lying down

473
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: at all times because again, people who are on house

474
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: have no place else to go if there's not enough

475
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: shelter beds, and again you can't help but to sit down,

476
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: lie down, or sleep at some time if you're a

477
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: human being. So so that's what Boise held, and it

478
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: has huge implications. It's the Ninth Circuit, which is the

479
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: circuit we're in, and so that means that it applies

480
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: to LA and you know, all the places right around us,

481
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: and so if cities in you know, in the Ninth

482
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: Circuit have laws that ban people being on public property,

483
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: like an anti camping ordinance, an anti sitting down ordinance,

484
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: a lying down ordinance. You know, all all of these

485
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: could be ruled on constitutional under the Eighth Amendment as

486
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: cruel and unusual as applied to unhoused folks if they

487
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: fit into the fact pattern under Boise. So it's a

488
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: huge deal and it's really really great that the Supreme

489
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: Court didn't Granser. We're all really really excited about it,

490
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: and so now Boise stands, and so we're going to

491
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: see how that plays out in the local courts. Yeah,

492
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: so it's a great, a great thing. And to me,

493
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: that case is a human rights issue. I mean, it's

494
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: basically saying people who don't have a place to sleep

495
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: still have a right to exist in our city because

496
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, realistically, what those laws are doing is saying

497
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: we want you to disappear. You know, you don't have

498
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: a place to stay, you don't have a place to go,

499
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: but we don't want to see you. So essentially you're

500
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: telling them, you know, you can't exist in the city

501
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: or and that place where this ordinance is. And to me,

502
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: this law is basically human rights edicts that says you

503
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: do have a right to exist, and if the city

504
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: can provide an option for you because housing prices are ridiculous,

505
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: Because we can't provide for our own public, then that's

506
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: the city's fault. It's not your fault. And you do

507
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: have a right to be here, and you do have

508
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: a right to stay here, and you know you have

509
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: a right to say what you need to say, and

510
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: to me, it is you know, it's a beautiful thing

511
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: that the courts are recognizing the rights of unhoused people

512
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: to exist where they have so much pressure from a

513
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: lot of money, from a lot of different organizations telling them, now,

514
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: we want this people to disappear, and they head to

515
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: the backbone to say, no, we're not going to tell

516
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: them to disappear. They're human beings. They have the right

517
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: to exist, and until you can house them, then they're

518
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: going to be where they need to be, until they

519
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: have an alternative. Do you think they will have Do

520
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: you think the city attorney, like Mike for Board Supervisors

521
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: Katherine Barger, Janet's Hahn, Mark Ridley Thomas, do you think

522
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: that they will try to retaliate or fight back on this. Well.

523
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: One interesting thing to note is that the city attorney

524
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: and the Board of Supervisors all filed amicist letters that

525
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: asked the Supreme Court to grant cert in Boise. They

526
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: basically they opposed the Boise decision. Our city attorney for

527
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: all of his rhetoric around you know, homeless rights. If

528
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: you listen to any of his you know, Twitter videos

529
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: and things like that on his website, I mean, the

530
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: rhetoric completely contradicts the action that that he takes on

531
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: this issue. So they oppose Boise, and now they will

532
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: be forced under the Ninth Circuit decision to abide by it.

533
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: They will have to abide by Boise and so and

534
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: if they don't, they'll subject themselves to litigation. Yeah, I

535
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: think I was looking forward. I was going to say,

536
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: because that is important for you, all of us, to

537
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: understand our rights about this. One thing I wanted to

538
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: ask about it is, excuse me, is about the Boise situation.

539
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: How do you think what is the best way of

540
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: us spreading the information to unhouse people about this. What

541
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: would be your idea, Let's say, for example, not only

542
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: unhoused people know this, but what would you consider to

543
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: be appropriate vehicle for us to give this out, this

544
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: message out to them, because they might be on the

545
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: cloud of you know, bluff by the police. I'll let

546
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: you ask it. That's a tough one. I would tell

547
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: them to listen to your podcast and talks to THEO

548
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: listen here. I got to say. You know, it's about organizing,

549
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: it's about teaching people. You know, if you know, go

550
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: tell people who don't and get the word out. You know,

551
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: chances are the city is not going to go around

552
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: advertising this to anybody. And like you said, police are

553
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: going to still try to push people over, take advantage

554
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: of the information gap when they realize that somebody doesn't know.

555
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: And I guess it's up to the unhoused community to

556
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: make sure that everybody knows the state of the law

557
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: and could speak up for each other. And that's another thing,

558
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: you know, this is a chance for folks to speak

559
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: up for each other. When some person who knows the

560
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: state of the law sees an officer trying to do

561
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: something that's unlawful, that's an opportunity for them to step

562
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: forward and say, you know, excuse me, officer. You know,

563
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: as of this date, the law says this, and this

564
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: person has every right to be here, and I'm going

565
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: to ask you to leave my friend so and so

566
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: alone and explain to so and so that this is

567
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: the state of the law. One thing I will say is,

568
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: you know, I always encourage people to proactively exercise their

569
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: rights and educate others. And one of the ways to

570
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: more effectively do that is to do it in a

571
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: very respectful way. And I tell folks, you know, even

572
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: when cops are disrespectful, it's important to respond respectfully, not

573
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: because they necessarily deserve your respect, but because if you don't,

574
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: you're going to get the short end of that stick.

575
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: And you know, folks who approach the police in an

576
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: aggressive way, and you know, I imagine that a lot

577
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: of your listeners already know this because they've had to

578
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: deal with the cops a lot, and they know how

579
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: to and how not to. But you know, folks who

580
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have a lot of police interaction, and I

581
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: think that cops are just like everybody else. You can,

582
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: you know, go assert your rights and and do it,

583
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: you know, as aggressive, lead enforceful as you want. That's

584
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: not necessarily going to get you the best outcome. So

585
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: you know, be calm, cool and collected as but at

586
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: the same time, be confident in your position and that

587
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: the laws on your side and you know, be assertive

588
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: without pissing them off, because that's definitely not going to

589
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: get you where you need to go. What if there

590
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: are people that have been jammed up by these interaction

591
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: citations that what that has basically have been struck down

592
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court ruling. Actually the law should have

593
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: stood until the ruling was an effect. But the police

594
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: have nonetheless have done these unjust things. So what advice

595
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: cats would you give for them? Well, I'm going to

596
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: largely defer to Tarak, who's the criminal defense lawyer. I mean,

597
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: we have what I would what I would post to

598
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: Taric is what what are some of the basic rights

599
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: that everyone should know when they're dealing with police in

600
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: terms of you know, answering police questions, in terms of

601
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: rights upon arrest, in terms of all these things. If

602
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: you're walking on the street and an officer comes up

603
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: to you and talks to you, you know, what are

604
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: your recommendations in general for dealing with police? All right,

605
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: how much time do we have? You know? I usually

606
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: focus on three things that are outlining the build rights

607
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 1: that I think are very important in situations like these

608
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 1: and others. The first one is you write your main silent,

609
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: and that may not always apply. But if there's a

610
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: reason why you don't want to communicate with the police,

611
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: because there's something that you may have done that you

612
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: don't want them to know about, or there's something that

613
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: you have that you don't want them to know about,

614
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: or you basically just don't want to open yourself up

615
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: to any kind of criminal liability, you always have the

616
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 1: right to be quiet. And you know, people who've dealt

617
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,919
Speaker 1: with law enforcement more probably know this better. You could

618
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: just say, you know what, I don't want to speak

619
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: to you, or you could just not respond. You could

620
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 1: play dumb and just walk away, and that's your right.

621
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: They can't arrest you for not communicating with them, one

622
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: of the few rights that they still know that they

623
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: can force. You know, in some places like old movies,

624
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 1: when people got beat down by the cops until they spoke,

625
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 1: they know that they can't get away with that anymore.

626
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: So you literally all you have to do is walk

627
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: away and keep your mouth shut and they can't force

628
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: you to say anything. And you know, I've had too

629
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: many cases where people wanted to talk their way out

630
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: of a problem, and it usually ended up in them

631
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: going away. In handcuffs. Not to say that folks aren't

632
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: smarter than the cops. It's just they can use words

633
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: against you. You know, even if you think you have

634
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,959
Speaker 1: a great explanation for something, they can turn that great

635
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: explanation into a confession and suddenly you find yourself on

636
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: your way to the station. So exercise your rights. Number one,

637
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: keep your mouth shut. Number two, don't consent to a search.

638
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: If you're not on probation or a parole, they're not

639
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: allowed to search you. So a lot of times they'll

640
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: come up to you an act af friendly and say, hey,

641
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: excuse me, sir, how you're doing. You know, I hope

642
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: you're enjoying the weather? How about them dodgers? What you

643
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: got in the back and have a quick look. Do

644
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: you mind if I take a look? And you know,

645
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: sometimes people don't want to ruin the rapport that they

646
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: think they have with this officer and that god, this

647
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: guy's being so friendly, it's been so nice. I'll just

648
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: consent to something. And again that's a horrible idea. And

649
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: you never need to consent to a search. You have

650
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: the right to be free from search and seizure. That's

651
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: an absolute right in the Bill of rights, and it's

652
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: something that protects us against law enforcement because our founders

653
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: new that we don't live in a police state. We

654
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: don't ever want to live in a police state, bless you,

655
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: and we never want police officers to feel that they

656
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: have a right to go into our personal belongings without

657
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: a warrant. So that's why the founder said, you know,

658
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 1: if the person consents, that's fine. If they don't consent,

659
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: officer has to walk away. So you always, you know,

660
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: tell them you don't consent. And I tell people, you know,

661
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 1: even if I get pulled over and I have nothing

662
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: in the car, my tags are fine. I'm not worried.

663
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: If they're going to ask me to search my car,

664
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: that's an inconvenience to me. They're going to get ask

665
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 1: me to get out of the car, sit on the curb,

666
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: go through my vehicle for a good twenty minutes. And

667
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: for what I mean, this is a free country. Why

668
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,479
Speaker 1: would I sit there and consent to a police search

669
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: for twenty minutes when I have better things to be

670
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: doing with my time, So don't consent to a search.

671
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 1: I have a question because I have heard this all time,

672
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,479
Speaker 1: and there has been people as says this all the time.

673
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: If you haven't done any wrong, what do you have

674
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: to worry about it? Why don't you just comply? What

675
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: is your answer to those kind of people? My answer

676
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: is that we were founded on a country where we

677
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: have rights over police, and police are supposed to serve

678
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: and protect us. Over the years, that script has been

679
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 1: flipped to where now we feel like we're in a

680
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: little bit more of a police state, where police feel

681
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: a little more entitled to come up to people to

682
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: question them, to search them. I mean, even this notion

683
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: that they're going to ask you for and sent to

684
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: search that should be offensive to anybody who studied the

685
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: constitution or the history of this country. If there's no

686
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: reason for them to search you, they shouldn't be coming

687
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: up and asking for permission to search. I mean me,

688
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: as a private citizen, if I want up to a

689
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: female and said, excuse me, your ma'am, you do you

690
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: mind if I have a look in your purse, She's

691
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: probably gonna slap me, and she should because I have

692
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: no business in her purse, the same way that officers

693
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 1: have no business in your personal property. And just because

694
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: they wear a badge and a gun, you know that

695
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: does not give them the right to violate your privacy.

696
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: And that's what our founders, you know, decided when they

697
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: wrote the Bill of Rights. So it's not so much

698
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: you have nothing to hide, it's, you know, we want

699
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: to assert our rights so that police officers remember that

700
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 1: we live in a country where we're free from search

701
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: and seizure. We're free from being stopped in first, we're

702
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: free from being questioned without you know, probable cause that

703
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: something happened, and we want to bring it back to

704
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: that place. And the only way that that's going to

705
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 1: happen is if people start exercising their rights in larger groups.

706
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: Right when police officers feel like, you know, you know,

707
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: sixty or seventy percent of the time when I go

708
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: ask somebody, they're going to get offended and yell at

709
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: me and be like give me your give me your office,

710
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: your supervisor's badge number. I want to give him a

711
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: call and I want to talk to him, and I

712
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: want to ask him while you're walking around asking me

713
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: to search me when I haven't done anything wrong. And

714
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: when they start to feel like people are empowered in

715
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: their rights and empowered knowing that the laws on their

716
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 1: side and the constitution protect them. That'll make an officer

717
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: think twice before they go and try to, you know,

718
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: do things that they shouldn't be doing. So it's it's

719
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: about flipping the script and bringing it back to a

720
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: place where it was intended to be. Whereas we're all

721
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: free citizens. The police are here to service, not to

722
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: harass us. And until we confidently, you know, exercise those rights,

723
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: it's never going to be that. It's going to continue

724
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: to be, you know, a police state as long as

725
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: we let it be. And again we it really is

726
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: up to us. We have to be you know, strong

727
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: and confident in the way that we serve those lights

728
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: rights so we can flip the script. The last one

729
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about is the right to be

730
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: to write, the right to terminate a police encounter. Whereas

731
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: you know, a police officer will come up to you

732
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: and as long as you're talking to them, they're going

733
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: to continue having conversation with you, try to get evidence,

734
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: try to get you to give up somebody next to

735
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: you or you know, who's that sleeping in the ten

736
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: next door? What do they do? You know, do they

737
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: smoke meth? Do they sell? Do they do this? You know,

738
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,479
Speaker 1: who's the prostitute, who's the dealer, who's this? And they're

739
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: going to sit there and talk to you as long

740
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: as they can talk to you to get as much

741
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: information as they can out of you, and you don't

742
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,439
Speaker 1: have to be sitting there listening to them at any

743
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: point in time. The quickest way to end a police

744
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: encounter is to ask very politely and courteously officer mind

745
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: or arrest, and probably not because you would have been

746
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: in handcuffs already, and when they say no, you're not

747
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: under arrest, you could say, all right, have a nice

748
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: day and you will walk away. So terminate a police

749
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: encounter whenever you want. It could be from the very

750
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: it could be from the get go, from good morning, sir,

751
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 1: how you doing officer minder? Arrest or am I free

752
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: to go? And then you can walk away right there.

753
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: So that's an important skill to have because people get

754
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 1: intimidated by cops and they want to sit there and

755
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: engage in the conversation because they're afraid of telling them

756
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: that they want them to stop. But you have the

757
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: right to tell them to stop, and the easiest way

758
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: to do that is that one question, am I under arrest? Or?

759
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: Am I free to go away, and when they tell

760
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: you that you're free to go or you're not underrest.

761
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: So that's my abbreviated version of my Know Your Rights workshop.

762
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: So assert those rights, exercise them, teach them to other people,

763
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: let them know that these laws are there to protect us,

764
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: not to protect the police. And until we start using

765
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: them more frequently and more confidently, you know, the cops

766
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: are going to keep doing what they're doing. This is

767
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I felt this podcast is

768
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: too part of this podcast is so important. I also

769
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: know that some of our on house friends are experiencing

770
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: this and they may have some questions in themselves that

771
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: I have not thought of. And I was wondering if, like,

772
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: is it possible because I'm thinking of a couple of

773
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: parts issues that are going through this that we have

774
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: workout at workshop where I have some pre planned questions

775
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: they feel they can have and communicate. Would you guys

776
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: be willing to come in and have a chit chat

777
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: with them? I would love that, I being honor Yeah, absolutely,

778
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: that's why we're here. Okay, one last thing, if you

779
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: could on a bill board say something about anything about

780
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: the unhoused rights or community activism in such what would

781
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: that be? I will start with Captain, I was with you, well,

782
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: I think in terms of the guild, I mean, our

783
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: motto is human rights are more important than property rights.

784
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, in Los Angeles right now, our city leaders

785
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: don't think that that's the case. And that's why we're

786
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: here to flip that script and change that narrative. I

787
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: would also say that you know, everybody matters whether your

788
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: house or not housed. At the end of the day,

789
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: everybody gets a vote. So we were talking about this

790
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: before the show, about organizing and you know, possibly creating unions, coalitions,

791
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: because you know, there's power numbers. There's certainly a lot

792
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: of numbers of unhoused folks in La County, and you know,

793
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: if we can organize that power, then we can change elections.

794
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: We can decide who gets in the city council. We

795
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: can decide, you know, who gets elected and what the

796
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: policies are going to be. And that's another really good

797
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: way to affect changes, To organize folks show up when

798
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: we need to show up, and protest when we need

799
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: to protest, and vote when we need to vote. And

800
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: there you have it. Two of my friends guests today

801
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: Kat and Tariq Tarik Trek. I'm sorry I get this

802
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: name right. I'm going to leave you with the quote

803
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: from Doctor King that says, the ark of the universe

804
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,919
Speaker 1: is long, but it bends to us justice. So once

805
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: we find justice, we can have harmony within the community

806
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: of a house and an house. This is THEO Henderson

807
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 1: from me to a house, and I thank you all

808
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: for listening, and maybe we again meet in the light

809
00:44:40,960 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: of understanding to put in the batta in the b