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Speaker 1: All eyes are on Minnesota as Americans watch what has

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Speaker 1: been unfolding in an effort called Operation Metro Surge. Now

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Speaker 1: in its second month, two people have been killed by

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Speaker 1: federal immigration agents, and the tactics of ICE are being

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Speaker 1: met with outrage and disbelief by not only protesters in Minneapolis,

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Speaker 1: but by people all across the country. It's against this

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Speaker 1: backdrop that Governor Josh Shapiro has written a book called

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Speaker 1: Where We Keep the Light. In it, he explores an

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Speaker 1: increase in political violence, including his own experience of the

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Speaker 1: Governor's mansion, the polarization that is rupturing America, and the

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Speaker 1: future of the Democratic Party. I asked him what he

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Speaker 1: hopes readers will conclude about where he stands politically and

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Speaker 1: his ambitions for twenty twenty eight.

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Speaker 2: I'm really excited to see you.

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Speaker 1: I don't think i've talked to you since COVID, and

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Speaker 1: I've been desperate to have a conversation with you. So

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Speaker 1: thank you for making time for me in this you

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Speaker 1: put your book out in the world.

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Speaker 3: I'm grateful, Thank you. I'm glad to get the chance

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Speaker 3: to have a conversation.

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Speaker 2: I remember we had so much fun.

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Speaker 1: I know it seems incongruous, but we had a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun talk during COVID, so looking forward to this conversation. So,

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Speaker 1: Governor Shapiro, as you well know, books like this are

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Speaker 1: generally put out in the world for candidates to introduce

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Speaker 1: themselves to a national audience before they announced they're perhaps

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Speaker 1: running for president. So before we get to that, what

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Speaker 1: do you hope readers conclude about stand politically after they

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Speaker 1: finish Where We Keep the Light.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you're going to ask me about this, and

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Speaker 3: you'll probably be skeptical when I say this, and maybe

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Speaker 3: even smirk a little bit. But when I set out

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Speaker 3: to write this book, it really was not to make

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Speaker 3: a political point. It was because I saw this real

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Speaker 3: clear division between what's happening in the media, particularly on

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Speaker 3: social media, what most of the dialogue and our politics

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Speaker 3: is about, which is typically darkness and division. And then

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Speaker 3: when I was out in communities every day, I was

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Speaker 3: seeing an entirely different side of America here in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 3: good people doing good things, lifting up their communities, and

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Speaker 3: as I write in the book, spreading light. And then

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Speaker 3: about halfway or so through writing this book, my family

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Speaker 3: and I were attacked at the Governor's residence. I'm sure

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Speaker 3: we'll talk about it, but that was a moment where

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Speaker 3: darkness fell upon our family and our commonwealth, and there

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Speaker 3: was this moment where you could feel like you were

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Speaker 3: going to be consumed by that darkness. Except what I

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Speaker 3: saw in the days after that, really in the hours

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Speaker 3: after that, were a whole lot of people from all

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Speaker 3: different walks of life, all different religions, coming together and

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Speaker 3: praying for us, lifting us up, strengthening us, and bringing

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Speaker 3: the kind of light to our family that up helping

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Speaker 3: us heal. And so in many ways, that became the

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Speaker 3: exclamation point on this book and my desire to do it.

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Speaker 3: I think the story of America, as I write at

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Speaker 3: the end of the book, is the story of ordinary

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Speaker 3: Americans doing extraordinary things and constantly striving for something a

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Speaker 3: little bit better, a little more, just a little more free.

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Speaker 3: I'm not suggesting people should not understand that there is

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Speaker 3: darkness out there. I'm sure we'll talk about Minnesota and

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Speaker 3: all the other challenges that are going on right now.

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Speaker 3: There are many challenges, and there's a lot of reasons

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Speaker 3: to feel down. But just simply turning off the news

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Speaker 3: and pulling the covers over your head doesn't make the

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Speaker 3: darkness go away. And I hope this book encourages people

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Speaker 3: to go seek light and find the goodness in their communities.

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Speaker 1: An effort, if you will, to try to appeal to

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Speaker 1: people's better angels, for sure, Abraham Lincoln said, but you're right,

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Speaker 1: there is a lot of darkness, and of course I

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Speaker 1: want to jump right into that. This past Saturday, in Minneapolis,

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Speaker 1: federal immigration agents fatally shot thirty seven year old alex Pretty,

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Speaker 1: an ICU nurse at the city's VA Hospital. He is

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Speaker 1: the second person to be fatally shot and killed in

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Speaker 1: the city during ongoing protests against a ramped up immigration

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Speaker 1: enforcement effort by the Trump administration. Does this feel to

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Speaker 1: you like a dangerous inflection point or watershed moment? How

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Speaker 1: would you assess what's happening in Minneapolis?

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Speaker 3: I believe that it is the primary responsibility of any governor,

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Speaker 3: mayor president to keep people safe. That is the foundational

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Speaker 3: and fundamental responsibility we all have. Part of the way

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Speaker 3: you keep people safe is by building trust between law

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Speaker 3: enforcement and the community that they police and protect. What

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Speaker 3: the federal government under Donald Trump and Jdvan and Christy

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Speaker 3: nome I've done is eviscerate that trust and leave people

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Speaker 3: less safe and brought more chaos into the streets of Minneapolis.

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Speaker 3: I think it is critically important that this mission be

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Speaker 3: terminated immediately and there'd be a full investigation into the

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Speaker 3: killing of Renee Good and Alex Pretty. You know, Katie

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Speaker 3: you mentioned at the top. I think the last time

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Speaker 3: we spoke was during COVID and I was the Attorney General.

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Speaker 3: Then I was the chief law enforcement officer of this commonwealth.

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Speaker 3: I sent agents out in the field routinely, and I

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Speaker 3: will tell you that the practices that CBP and ICE

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Speaker 3: are engaged in communities do not meet baseline proper policing procedures.

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Speaker 3: From the manner in which they are masked, to the

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Speaker 3: manner in which they are stopping people simply because they

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Speaker 3: have an accent or their skin is a different color,

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Speaker 3: to the way in which they're discharging their weapons in

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Speaker 3: the community. This is not proper policing. It's eviscerating the

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Speaker 3: trust that exists. And then the leadership at the top

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Speaker 3: who's put them on this mission. President Trump, Vice President

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Speaker 3: Vance and others are shamefully gaslighting the community, attacking Alex

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Speaker 3: Pretty after their own agents claimed his life, forcing parents

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Speaker 3: who are grieving to have to come out and defend

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Speaker 3: their son in death because of the actions by these

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Speaker 3: federal officials. This is not okay. This is outside the

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Speaker 3: bounds of the law. I would argue, violates the tenth

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Speaker 3: Amendment of our Constitution, and it needs to end. This

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Speaker 3: mission needs to be terminated.

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Speaker 1: Well, Governor, that's all well and good, but I guess,

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Speaker 1: to borrow a phrase, it seems appropriate given what's happening

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Speaker 1: across the country. There seems to be a snowballs chance

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Speaker 1: in hell that ice is going to stop this operation,

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Speaker 1: that the proper investigations are going to commence, And you know,

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Speaker 1: quite frankly, it sounds almost no for you to insist

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Speaker 1: upon that, because I think that's what everyone has been saying,

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Speaker 1: but nothing's being done.

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Speaker 3: May I just very respectfully push back on that lease,

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Speaker 3: And I know you asked the question in a respectful

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Speaker 3: way and your right to push me on it. I

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Speaker 3: think number one, the state attorney general has the power

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Speaker 3: to conduct an investigation and should conduct the investigation, and

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Speaker 3: should they find that federal officials obstructed justice by impacting

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Speaker 3: the crime scene, that is a crime and they should

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Speaker 3: be charged. There's nothing stopping state officials from conducting a

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Speaker 3: full investigation. That's point number one.

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Speaker 1: Right, But they don't have access, as you know, Governor,

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Speaker 1: to a lot of the information from the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: And they have said Keith Ellison, the Attorney General of Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: has said they're going to do an investigation. But it

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Speaker 1: seems to me, and you're an attorney, I'm not the

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Speaker 1: federal government is really impeding their ability to do just that.

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Speaker 3: And that is a crime. That is a crime. If

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Speaker 3: you're obstructing justice, that a crime. I believe the state

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Speaker 3: has the power to conduct an investigation and should. I

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Speaker 3: think the second point about the mission is also something

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Speaker 3: that I would respectfully push back on. We have seen

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Speaker 3: courts curtail the power of this president when it comes

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Speaker 3: to the National Guard as an example. I believe that

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Speaker 3: there is a similar tenth Amendment argument that can be made.

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Speaker 3: I believe they're making it in a court of Minnesota

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Speaker 3: today or tomorrow, and it is important that that be pursued. Third,

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Speaker 3: I believe that this week the Congress of the United

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Speaker 3: States can stop the funding for ICE's mission in Minnesota,

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Speaker 3: and I would like to see them do that. So

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Speaker 3: I do not believe that all is hopeless. I believe

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Speaker 3: that there is an opportunity to do this. I would

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Speaker 3: hope that the federal government under Donald Trump would participate

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Speaker 3: in a responsible approach here. I think you are right

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Speaker 3: to suggest that they won't. But it does not mean

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Speaker 3: that there are others that don't have power in this process,

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Speaker 3: and I believe they need to execute that power and

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Speaker 3: use it to protect the community.

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Speaker 1: Many Democrats have apparently voted not to defund ice, So

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Speaker 1: what if Congress does his step in. I know one

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Speaker 1: changed her mind after the killing of alex Pretty but

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Speaker 1: are there any other alternatives? Are there any other things

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Speaker 1: that can be done? And the Trump administration, quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: has been known to ignore court orders.

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Speaker 3: Well, again, I think if court orders, you have funding.

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Speaker 3: I think what's also clear is that Donald Trump is

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Speaker 3: afraid of public opinion turning on him. And what is

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Speaker 3: clear is that reasonable people in America are seeing with

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Speaker 3: their own eyes the lawlessness and the violation of people's

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Speaker 3: fundamental constitutional rights, and they don't like it. It's not

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Speaker 3: just elected leaders who are speaking up. Community leaders are

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Speaker 3: speaking up, athletes are speaking up. People in public life

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Speaker 3: who don't engage in politics typically are speaking up. I

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Speaker 3: happen to think that Coach Steve Kerr of the of

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Speaker 3: the Golden State Warriors spoke so beautifully about this yesterday.

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Speaker 3: I think when those voices speak up, that begins to

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Speaker 3: shape public opinion. And Donald Trump, who puts on this

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Speaker 3: sort of veneer of strength, is really, you know, quite

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Speaker 3: a weak human being deep down inside. I think he

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Speaker 3: is susceptible to you know, the shift in public opinion.

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Speaker 3: And this is a moment where I think the public

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Speaker 3: needs to speak up. So between our courts, between the

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Speaker 3: Congress and the funding, and between the public speaking up,

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Speaker 3: I think that we can shape a change in Minnesota,

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Speaker 3: and I think we need to.

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Speaker 1: And when do you think this might happen? You know,

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Speaker 1: this has been going on for a while now. I

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Speaker 1: think every day this is going on, the temperature increases,

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Speaker 1: the anger intensifies, and I'm curious when you see potentially

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Speaker 1: this being resolved.

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Speaker 3: Well again, I believe the lawyers are in court today

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Speaker 3: in Minnesota. I don't want to kind of backseat drive

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Speaker 3: on their case, but certainly what I'd be doing is

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Speaker 3: pushing this Tenth Amendment argument. And if I prevailed, I

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Speaker 3: would immediately ask for a restraining order or an injunction

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Speaker 3: to stop the federal government from being on the streets

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Speaker 3: of Minnesota, to effectively remove them, and as I said

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Speaker 3: at the top in response to your question, terminate this mission.

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Speaker 3: I think that is the first step. The second step

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Speaker 3: will come on I believe it's Friday when the Congress

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Speaker 3: of the United States votes on this funding package, and

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Speaker 3: if they don't have the funding in order to carry

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Speaker 3: out the mission in Minnesota, then it is going to

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Speaker 3: force them to change the mission if they want to

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Speaker 3: receive funding from Congress. That's another leverage point.

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Speaker 2: What if they do get the funding.

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Speaker 3: I know you keep responding to my suggestions with what

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Speaker 3: if I get that this is a very unpredictable.

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Speaker 1: Seems like it's a real possibility. I'm not just pulling

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Speaker 1: this out of thin air.

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Speaker 3: No it is, and I'm not trying to be argument

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Speaker 3: in any way. I'm just suggesting to you, in response

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Speaker 3: to your questions about there's nothing we can do, there

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Speaker 3: are things that we can do, And I think the

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Speaker 3: public has a role to play to continue to express

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Speaker 3: their public outrage by what they're seeing. I think the

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Speaker 3: Congress has a role to play, and I think the

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Speaker 3: courts have a role to play, and I think those

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Speaker 3: are three really powerful tools.

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Speaker 1: Governor Shapiro, I'm sure that you've thought about or gained out.

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Speaker 1: What if an operation like Metro Surge came to your

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Speaker 1: state of Pennsylvania and an influx of ICE agents came

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Speaker 1: to Philadelphia or Pittsburgh and operated the way they're doing

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Speaker 1: in Minneapolis and Saint Paul. Is there anything you would

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Speaker 1: have done differently or you would do differently if that

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Speaker 1: were to happen.

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Speaker 3: I'm certainly not going to Monday morning quarterback Governor Walls,

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Speaker 3: or Mayor Fry or the police commissioner there. Here's what

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Speaker 3: I will tell you about Pennsylvania. We have long been

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Speaker 3: preparing for the federal government deploying soldiers or deploying federal

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Speaker 3: agents to the streets of our commonwealth against the wishes

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Speaker 3: of me and against the wishes of local authorities. And

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Speaker 3: Katie Well, I want to answer all of your questions here.

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Speaker 3: I would respectfully submit that I'm not going to get

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Speaker 3: into the specifics of what our plans would be, but

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Speaker 3: I can tell you that we will do everything in

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Speaker 3: our power to keep Pennsylvanian safe and free from that

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Speaker 3: type of intrusion. As I said at the top fundamental

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Speaker 3: responsibility for a governor, president, mayor is to keep people

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Speaker 3: safe in their communities. And this is unprecedented to have

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Speaker 3: a federal government doing things that undermine that trust between

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Speaker 3: law enforcement and the community and make people less safe.

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Speaker 3: We will do everything in our power to push back

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Speaker 3: on it. We have ideas on how to do that,

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Speaker 3: some that have been deployed in other cities and states

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Speaker 3: and some that have not yet been deployed and were

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Speaker 3: prepared to do just that should this come to Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's me Katie Couric. You know, if you've

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Speaker 1: been following me on social media, you know I love

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Speaker 1: to cook, or at least try, especially alongside some of

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Speaker 1: my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blanco, Jake Cohen,

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Speaker 1: Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman, and Inagarten. So I started a

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Speaker 1: free newsletter called good Taste to share recipes, tips and

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Speaker 1: kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katiecuric dot com slash

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Speaker 1: good Taste. That's k A T I E C O

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Speaker 1: U r I c dot com slash good Taste. I

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Speaker 1: promise your taste buds will be happy you did this

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Speaker 1: past weekend. Attorney General Pam BONDI sent a letter to

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Speaker 1: Tim Wallas, the Minnesota governor, blaming him other Democratic elected

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Speaker 1: officials for allowing quote unquote lawlessness. In the letter, she

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Speaker 1: pressed him to share state records on Medicaid and food

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Speaker 1: and Nutrition service programs, repeal migrant sanctuary policies, and turn

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Speaker 1: voter rolls over to the DOJ to quote confirm that

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Speaker 1: Minnesota's voter registration practices complied with federal law. Do you

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Speaker 1: believe that this letter supports speculation that the Trump administration's

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Speaker 1: deployment of ICE is part of the quest to quote

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Speaker 1: unquote take control over the upcoming midterm elections.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's frankly less about my opinion

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Speaker 3: and more about what is written in black and white

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Speaker 3: on that sheet of paper. The federal government has been

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Speaker 3: trying to get access to your private personal information on

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Speaker 3: our voter roles, and at least here in Pennsylvania, I've

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Speaker 3: stood up to stop them. Let me explain. The federal

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Speaker 3: government demanded that I turn over all of the voter

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Speaker 3: information for Pennsylvania voters, roughly nine million people, and Katie,

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Speaker 3: for those who are not familiar, it is a matter

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Speaker 3: of public record, say that Katie Kirk is registered this way,

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Speaker 3: voted in these elections. Right, that's a matter of public record.

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Speaker 3: Any political party can gain access to that information. But

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Speaker 3: beneath that, there's a lot of private personal information about

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Speaker 3: Katie Kerrieshin's at Kitty Kirk, about Jane Doe, and that

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Speaker 3: is more personal information that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has

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Speaker 3: a legal responsibility to protect, a legal responsibility. I can't

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Speaker 3: turn that over. And so we responded to their demand

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Speaker 3: by saying, no, Number one, I've got a legal responsibility

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Speaker 3: to protect it. Number two, I don't trust you with it,

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Speaker 3: which is what we made clear. And the Trump administration

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Speaker 3: turned around and sued us to compel us to turn

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Speaker 3: over that information. That seems to me to be a

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Speaker 3: similar argument that they've made to Governor Wallace in Minnesota.

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Speaker 3: I'm not an expert on Minus Minesota law, but I

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Speaker 3: can just speak to what's happening here in our commonwealth.

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Speaker 3: And so I do not trust them with it, and

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Speaker 3: I've got a legal responsibility to protect it. And I

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Speaker 3: do believe that the administration in Washington wants to use

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Speaker 3: those voter lists and use people's private personal information for

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Speaker 3: bad purposes, for nefarious purposes, and they want to use

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Speaker 3: it in part to undermine the midterms. And again this

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Speaker 3: is not hyperbole. Donald Trump has been on the ballot

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Speaker 3: three times in Pennsylvania over the last decade, and each

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Speaker 3: and every time they've taken steps to undermine our elections,

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Speaker 3: and we've had free and safe and secure elections each time.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I think one of the last times you

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Speaker 3: and I spoke again, I was the attorney general of

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Speaker 3: Pennsylvania in the twenty twenty election. Trump and his allies

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Speaker 3: sued me forty three different times to try and undermine

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Speaker 3: our free and fair, safe and secure election. They went

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Speaker 3: on forty three, I went forty three and zero. We

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Speaker 3: defended our voters here in Pennsylvania, voters who voted for

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump well and voters who voted for the other candidates.

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Speaker 3: And to me, that is the point here. We're going

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Speaker 3: to continue to have a free and fair and safe

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Speaker 3: and secure election. But the Trump administration their allies are

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Speaker 3: going to try and do everything in their power to

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Speaker 3: undermine that, and we're going to stand up to that.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, Governor, when you say they're going to try

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Speaker 1: to do nefarious things, can you game that out for me?

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Speaker 1: What would they try to do with the information they're

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Speaker 1: trying to get.

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Speaker 3: I think what they may try to do is take

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Speaker 3: legal eligible voters and make up phony arguments as to

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Speaker 3: why they should not be permitted to vote. I think

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Speaker 3: they may use it to target people with federal officials

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Speaker 3: and intimidate them before the election. I think they may

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Speaker 3: use it in a way that allows them to shape

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Speaker 3: where they want to send federal troops to intimidate people

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Speaker 3: come election time. There's a whole host of things they

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Speaker 3: can do. And I know this may sound somewhat outlandish

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Speaker 3: to people, but again, this is an administration Washington that

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Speaker 3: has been acting outside the bounds of the law, who

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Speaker 3: are unwilling to follow the rule of law, and who

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Speaker 3: have proven to us in election after election that they

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Speaker 3: are not bound by norms and they are not bound

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Speaker 3: by the law, and they will do anything to undermine

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Speaker 3: people's right to vote if they're not voting for the

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Speaker 3: candidates that they prefer.

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Speaker 1: Getting back to your book, as you mentioned, you open

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Speaker 1: it with the recounting of the firebombing of the governor's

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Speaker 1: residence while you and your family slept. This happened on

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Speaker 1: April thirteenth of last year. You've said that you only

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Speaker 1: understood the danger you faced as a public figure theoretically

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Speaker 1: before this attack took place, and I know that you

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Speaker 1: have said this attack changed you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how so? Well, first off, we thank god that

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Speaker 3: none of us were physically hurt. And at a time

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Speaker 3: where you have rising political violence against the present and

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Speaker 3: I States and Butler against Charlie Kirk against Speaker Hortman

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Speaker 3: and others where they were killed or where they were

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Speaker 3: injured in many ways, we feel blessed that we were

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Speaker 3: not physically harmed. I think for us, we understood sadly

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Speaker 3: that there were risks associated with being in public life,

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Speaker 3: particularly when you're in public life and speak your mind

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Speaker 3: and you're open about who you are. But to me,

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Speaker 3: I always felt a sense of comfort knowing that I

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Speaker 3: had this privilege of traveling around with Pennsylvania State troopers

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Speaker 3: and having a level of protection that most Americans don't receive.

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Speaker 3: I felt fortunate to have that. I think all of

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Speaker 3: that was really pierced that evening when someone who was

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Speaker 3: trying to kill me broke into our home and threw

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Speaker 3: Molotov cocktails around and tried to break through the door

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Speaker 3: that led to where my family, and I were sleeping

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Speaker 3: holding a weapon that he said he was going to

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Speaker 3: use to kill me. Had a number of talks as

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Speaker 3: a family in those hours and days thereafter, and to

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Speaker 3: be honest with you, Katie, it was less about me

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Speaker 3: being governor more just trying to be a good dad

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Speaker 3: and husband and answer my kids questions. And you know,

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Speaker 3: as a parent, you just want to assure your kids

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Speaker 3: that they're safe. And for the first time in my life,

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Speaker 3: it felt that I couldn't as a dad, look my

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Speaker 3: kids in the eye and guarantee that. And so we

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Speaker 3: had to work through that. And so I would say

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Speaker 3: that even though we were not physically harmed, emotionally there

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Speaker 3: are scars and we've had to work through it. But

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Speaker 3: I think as a family, we all understood and came

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Speaker 3: to this conclusion that bailing on this life of service,

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Speaker 3: walking away from the people who I took an oath

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Speaker 3: of office to protect, not continuing, you know, to pursue

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Speaker 3: this work that I find great purpose in, would mean

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Speaker 3: that those who bring violence in our communities one and remember, Katie,

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Speaker 3: the goal of political violence is not just to harm

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Speaker 3: the one individual that they are seeking a harm. Melissa

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Speaker 3: Horton and Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump, myself. It's really to

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Speaker 3: try and inflict damage on a broader community, to make

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Speaker 3: people wonder whether they're safe, to make people wonder whether

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Speaker 3: they can still pray the way they would or if

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Speaker 3: they're in more danger because of how they look when

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Speaker 3: they walk down the street. And to me, that is

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Speaker 3: insidious and we have to speak out against that. And

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Speaker 3: one of the most important things I can do is

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Speaker 3: stay in this and not allow those destructive voices to

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Speaker 3: drive me out of this or to scare my family.

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Speaker 3: In Ioway, you.

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Speaker 1: Write in the book that it took President Trump a

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Speaker 1: week to call you after the attack, and during that

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Speaker 1: call he said something about running that will strike a

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Speaker 1: lot of readers as odd. Can you tell us what

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Speaker 1: he said to you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And look, it took him a week, but he called,

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Speaker 3: and I appreciate the fact that he called. And I

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Speaker 3: said that in the book. And when he called the

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Speaker 3: first time, it was from a number I didn't have

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Speaker 3: in my phones, I didn't know who it was. I

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Speaker 3: didn't answer it. I listened to his voicemail, and a

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Speaker 3: couple minutes later called him right back, and we spent

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Speaker 3: the first couple of minutes of the call where he

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Speaker 3: was checking in on me and my family, which I

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Speaker 3: appreciated very much, and letting me know that all federal

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Speaker 3: resources would be brought to bear to make sure that

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Speaker 3: the person who did this would be held to account,

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Speaker 3: which that person was. That person is behind bars for

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Speaker 3: up to fifty years. And then after a couple of minutes,

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Speaker 3: he kind of moved into other topics, tariffs and other things,

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Speaker 3: and I frankly use as an opportunity to talk about

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Speaker 3: some of the needs in my state and a big

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Speaker 3: issue involving steel workers in my state. And we had

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Speaker 3: quite a productive conversation where, by the way, ultimately the

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Speaker 3: issue we talked about was resolved and resolved favorably to

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Speaker 3: Pennsylvania and in a way that I had hoped. Toward

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Speaker 3: the end of the call, he began musing aloud about

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Speaker 3: political violence, how dangerous it is to be a president,

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Speaker 3: and he was complete with statistics on the number of

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Speaker 3: presidents who have been assassinated or where there's been an

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Speaker 3: attempted assassination, and just said it's a very dangerous thing.

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Speaker 3: Don't run. And I sort of chuckled and was president,

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Speaker 3: that's not my plans, that's not what I'm doing. But

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Speaker 3: I appreciate your sentiments, and you know, he was complimentary

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Speaker 3: in my work, and you know, we agreed to stay

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Speaker 3: in touch. So it was strange, certainly, But again I

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Speaker 3: appreciate the fact that he called, as I appreciate the

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Speaker 3: fact that President Obama and President Biden, President Clinton and

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Speaker 3: others from this country and world leaders called to check

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Speaker 3: in on us. Again, as I said a moment ago,

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Speaker 3: the act of political violence maybe targeted at one individual,

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Speaker 3: in this case, my family, but it really impacts broader

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Speaker 3: swaths of people, and I think, you know, broughtder swaths

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Speaker 3: of people feel their own sense of vulnerability from an

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Speaker 3: attack like that.

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Speaker 1: But it does seem odd that he used the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to encouraging not to pursue the presidency.

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Speaker 3: Again, it was free wielding conversation. I wrote about it

437
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: in the book. I thought it was a bit strange,

438
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 3: but he was saying what was on his mind.

439
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: You are one of this country's most prominent Jewish democrats,

440
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 1: and you proudly celebrate your faith openly. The person who

441
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: fire bombed your house was motivated by anti Semitism. At

442
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: the same time, the broader climate around Israel and Gaza

443
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: has made conversations about Jewish identity feel more fraught than ever.

444
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: You've been criticized by progressives for being an unapologetic Zionist,

445
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: for censoring pro Palestinian protesters at the University of Pennsylvania

446
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: and expanding the definition of anti Semitism to include certain

447
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: rhetoric aimed at delegitimizing the state of Israel. I. Should

448
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: point out, though, Governor, that you have criticized Israeli Prime

449
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 1: Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in no uncertain terms. But this laundry

450
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: list may cause some people to wonder if you are

451
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: somehow out of step with the Democratic Party. Polls show

452
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: that Democratic voters are increasingly sympathetic to Palestinians. Even national

453
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: Jewish Democrats like JB. Pritzker and Ram Emmanuel, both considered

454
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: possible candidates in twenty twenty eight, have publicly challenged Israeli policy,

455
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: and in July, a record twenty seven Senate Democrats, a

456
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: majority of the caucus, supported a pair of resolutions calling

457
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: for the blocking of weapons transfers to israel I. Know

458
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: you have been Adamcgovernor that your views will not be

459
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: influenced by polling, But do you feel that you have

460
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: been two pro Israel in some cases, and that whether

461
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: you like it or not, this may hurt you politically.

462
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 3: Okay, it's a lot to unpack there, so let me

463
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 3: let me track go through point by point, and if

464
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 3: I missed something inadvertently, certainly come back to me. On that.

465
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 3: I think that there are two conversations that need to

466
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 3: be had and you sort of blended both of them

467
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 3: together in this question, one about anti Semitism and the

468
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 3: other about Middle East policy. First, on anti Semitism, I

469
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 3: view that as a very in many ways black and

470
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: white issue. There is no room in our society for

471
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 3: anti semitism. There's no room in our society for hatred

472
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 3: or bigotry of any form, and I routinely call on

473
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 3: people to condemn it. And I think anti Semitism is

474
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 3: a problem on the political left and the political right,

475
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 3: and it shouldn't be hard for anyone to come out

476
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 3: and condemn it, period, full stop, end of sentence. The

477
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 3: second piece of what you said has to do with

478
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 3: policy in the Middle East, and on that I have

479
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 3: been crystal clear, by the way, for years, even before

480
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 3: October seventh, that I thought Benjamin Natanyahho was isolating Israel

481
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: the world community making Israel less safe. October seventh is

482
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 3: an example of Israel being less safe under Nittanyahu's leadership,

483
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 3: and that the long term prospects of Israel being able

484
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: to create stability and peace in the region were being

485
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 3: undermined by Nittanyahu. I have also, for years even before

486
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: October seventh, and continue to feel this way to this day,

487
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 3: believe in a two state solution. That Palestinians need to

488
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: have their own homeland secured next to Israel, in a

489
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 3: place where they are not governed by Hamas, which is

490
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: a terrorist organization, but instead governed by a government of

491
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: their choosing that recognizes Israel's right to exist, renounces terror,

492
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: and where Palistinian children grow up where they feel like

493
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 3: they have a future ahead of them, where they can

494
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 3: be anything that they want to be. That is my hope,

495
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: and I realize that at this moment in time that

496
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 3: feels very very far way, but that is my hope.

497
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: That is what I would like to see. I've been

498
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: consistent on these issues. The other thing I've been consistent

499
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: about throughout my entire political career is I don't put

500
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 3: my finger to the wind and look at what the

501
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 3: polls say and just react to the polls. I tell

502
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: people what I believe. I stand up for what I believe.

503
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 3: In the final thing I'd like to say about your question,

504
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 3: you used a word that I would respectfully object to,

505
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 3: and I don't think it was your word. You were

506
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: citing others this notion that I somehow support censoring those

507
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 3: who protest in this country, even taking a position that

508
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 3: I disagree with. Understand that I am someone who has

509
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 3: quite literally gone to court and someone who speaks every

510
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 3: day about the need to protect civil discourse and protect

511
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 3: the right to peacefully protest, and that is something I

512
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 3: support on college campuses and all across our communities. Here's

513
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: what I don't support. I don't support you using the

514
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: veneer of prot test to assault a kid because they're

515
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 3: a Jew. I don't believe using the veneer of protest

516
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: to stop a Jewish kid from going to class simply

517
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 3: because he's Jewish, sure to block him from getting back

518
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: to his dorm because he supports Israel. That's not okay,

519
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 3: and that is something that I have been outspoken about

520
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: and I certainly don't apologize for that. What I said

521
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 3: at the top of this answer about anti Semitism being

522
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 3: a black and white issue, I stand by, but I

523
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 3: also would recognize that policy in the Middle East is

524
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: super complicated, it's really nuanced, and it is anything but

525
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 3: black and white. This is an issue that has confounded

526
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: the world for hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of years,

527
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 3: and it's something we've got to find ways to work

528
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 3: through together. So I'm happy to have a longer conversation

529
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: about my views on policy. I'm happy to have a

530
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 3: conversation about my views on anti Semitism, Islamophobia, hatred, bigotry

531
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 3: of all forms. My point, too, is I think they're

532
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 3: two very distinct conversations and need to be held as such.

533
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: Something tells me you'll have plenty of opportunities Governor in

534
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: the future to elaborate and talk more about this. But

535
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: you also you're making a lot of headlines because there's

536
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,959
Speaker 1: been a sort of tip for tat thing going on

537
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: with Kamala Harris's book and now your book. You write

538
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: about the vetting process for consideration to be Vice President

539
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: Harris's running mate, during which you were asked if you'd

540
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: ever been an agent for the Israeli government or had

541
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,959
Speaker 1: communicated with undercover Israeli operatives. You took umbrage at that,

542
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: did you not?

543
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 3: Yes, But I wouldn't characterize as a tit for tat.

544
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I wrote a few pages and a much

545
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: longer book about how I arrived at making a decision

546
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 3: that I didn't want to serve as or be considered

547
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 3: as vice president to Vice President Harris, and I wrote

548
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 3: about how I went through that decision making process, and yes,

549
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: during that process, I was asked that question about an

550
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 3: hour before I walked into a meeting with the Vice President,

551
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 3: about whether or not you know I was some kind

552
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 3: of double agent for Israel or had some dual loyalty

553
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: toward Israel, and whether I had communicated ever with some

554
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 3: undercover operative. I mean, I could tell you as a

555
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 3: former Attorney General, Katie, I sent people undercover all the

556
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 3: time for different operations. Someone who's doing their job undercover,

557
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 3: how the hell would you know you're talking to them?

558
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: So I felt that the questions were loaded. I didn't

559
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 3: appreciate them. But I also write in the book about

560
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: how I understood why the vetters felt that they needed

561
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 3: to ask lots of different questions. And so I've got

562
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 3: no ill will toward anyone. I was just simply explaining

563
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: what the process was like for me, and you know

564
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 3: throughout that process and anyone who's ever been through it

565
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: would probably say something similar. It is an honor to

566
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: be considered. It's also a strange situation because, unlike every

567
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 3: other aspect of my life, which is very public, I

568
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: answer questions to folks like you all the time, this

569
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 3: is one of those situations where you're really not permitted

570
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 3: to say any things. You go through the process, and

571
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 3: so this was my first opportunity to explain what happened

572
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 3: from my perspective and to show how that, like many

573
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: other decisions throughout my career that I write about in

574
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: this book, what sort of process I went through to

575
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 3: make those judgments.

576
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: Former Biden Chief of Staff Ron Klain said that asking

577
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: a high level appointee if they have ever been a

578
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: foreign agent is a standard vetting question, citing Standard Form

579
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: eighty six, which national security officials fill out for vetting

580
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: and includes questions about foreign government interactions. So did you

581
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: feel like because you are Jewish you were being singled

582
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: out in any way, shape or form or held to

583
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: a higher center through those questions? Because I know that

584
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: you also wrote Governor that you are asked to either

585
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: apologize or recant some of the statements you had made

586
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: in the past.

587
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: They had every right to ask me whatever they wanted.

588
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: And I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm not, you know,

589
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 3: labeling anyone's conduct or behavior or use a certain way.

590
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: I'm just telling you how I feel. And this was

591
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 3: a process I went through one of many decision making

592
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 3: processes throughout my career, and I wanted to explain, you know,

593
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 3: why I felt the way I felt, and how I

594
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 3: was able to come to that decision.

595
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: In her own book, former Vice President Harris said she

596
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: worried you would struggle to accept a supporting role, that

597
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: you wanted to be quote in the room for every decision,

598
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: and that she felt the need to remind you a

599
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: vice president isn't a co president. When you hear that characterization,

600
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: now of sort of your attitude during the process, what

601
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: is your response, I.

602
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 3: Thought the Vice President I had a very very candid meeting,

603
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: and I write about in the book how much I

604
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: appreciated the candor, and we talked about both the role

605
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: on a campaign, which was a fairly short period of

606
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 3: that conversation. I think we both understood, you know, what

607
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 3: I would be able to bring to the ticket. Then

608
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 3: we had a much longer conversation that was very honest

609
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 3: about a role for a vice president in her mind,

610
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 3: not necessarily mean specifically, but in her mind what she wanted.

611
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 3: And you know, she made very clear that it was

612
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 3: not someone who was going to be in the room,

613
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 3: not someone who was going to get to be heard

614
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: necessarily on issues. And what I made clear, and I

615
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 3: read about this in the book, is that if there

616
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 3: was a choice between door A and door B, and

617
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 3: she favored Door A and I favored Door B, I

618
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 3: just wanted to be able to make the case for

619
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 3: door B. And if she made the choice to go

620
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 3: through Dora A, I'd run through a brick wall to

621
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 3: effectuate that. I will say to this day, I appreciate

622
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 3: the Vice president's candor about saying what she wanted. I

623
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: just have a very different perspective, you know, albeit on

624
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 3: a much smaller level. But I chose a lieutenant governor

625
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 3: here in Pennsylvania, someone who's a true partner to me,

626
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: someone by the way history making lieutenant governor our first

627
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: black LG in Pennsylvania. And I believe the nation's youngest

628
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 3: LG as well Austin Davis, and you know, we just

629
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 3: have a very different relationship. So the perspective that I

630
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 3: came to that discussion with was really different. But I

631
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 3: have no ill will, I have no negaive feelings. I

632
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 3: appreciate her candor very much. It allowed me to leave

633
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 3: that evening, to go back to my family and to

634
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 3: make the determination that this was just simply not going

635
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: to be the right fit, which is why I picked

636
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 3: up the phone. I guess roughly forty eight hours before

637
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 3: she made that decision to call an informer that I

638
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 3: did not want to be considered. And again, this is

639
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: not ill will, and I know use the term tit

640
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,919
Speaker 3: for tat. I certainly don't feel that it is that way.

641
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: And I appreciate the chance that I get to share

642
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 3: my perspective on things. And as you well know, after

643
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 3: she made that decision to choose Tim Walls, I worked

644
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: my tail off for both of them in Pennsylvania, across

645
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 3: the country and did everything I could. I wish they

646
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 3: would have won. The country would be far better off

647
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 3: had they won that election.

648
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: Isn't it annoying though, for you, Governor to have have

649
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: the rap bee, that you came in sort of overconfident.

650
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: People have suggested you were measuring the drapes before a

651
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: decision was made.

652
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: I mean that for me, honestly, that would bug the

653
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 2: shit out of me.

654
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 3: You know first off that I mean, that's certainly not

655
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 3: an accurate assessment of what transpired. But that being said, Katie,

656
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: I have learned in this business, I've learned in life

657
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 3: that you can't get a motion, you can't get too high,

658
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 3: I can't get too low. And it was an honor

659
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 3: to even be in the room, an honor to be

660
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 3: considered and to be in that position, And to this

661
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 3: day I'm grateful for it.

662
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a

663
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

664
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

665
00:37:52,840 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. When

666
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: you are considering, or people believe you're considering, or you're

667
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: on a list as a potential presidential candidate, as you've

668
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: learned very quickly, Governor, you are put under a pretty

669
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: serious microscope. And while you're popular in Pennsylvania, I guess

670
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: some of your fellow Democrats in the state have not

671
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: been that flattering when they talk about you. One state

672
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: official said, you don't want to turn your back on him.

673
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: Loyalty is not his strong suit. Now I need to

674
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: add to that, this individual still insisted that you'd be

675
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: a great president. But I wanted to give you a

676
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: chance to respond. Why do you think some of your

677
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: fellow Democrats apparently have some ambivalence about you? Do you

678
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: think at times your ambition gets the better of you?

679
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: Because that has been suggested.

680
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: Look, I get people will suggest things, People will say

681
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 3: things off the record or allegedly say things to you know,

682
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 3: to reporters, Katie. At the end of the day, my

683
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 3: job is to deliver for the good people of Pennsylvania.

684
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 3: Where I think, as you'd acknowledge, the people in Pennsylvania

685
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 3: are happy with the work we're doing, happy with our

686
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 3: ability to get shit done every single day for them,

687
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 3: and so I'm not going to concern myself with you know,

688
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 3: some unnamed insiders. You know, frankly, Katie, at the end

689
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 3: of the day, if there's a couple of insiders who

690
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 3: are upset, but the people that I take an oath

691
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 3: of office to serve and protect or please with the

692
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 3: work we're doing, I'll take that. I think anytime you're

693
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 3: reform minded, anytime you are doing things not just based

694
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 3: on conventional wisdom, you may rub some people the wrong way.

695
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 3: But I'm going to continue to work my tail off

696
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 3: every day for the good people of Pennsylvania and deliver

697
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 3: for them.

698
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the Democratic Party writ large.

699
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: A lot of soul searching going on in the Democratic Party,

700
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: as you well, we know it's popularity is an all

701
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: time low as well. What do you think Democrats need

702
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: to do to earn the trust of the American people again,

703
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: because that, I think is one of the biggest questions

704
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: facing Democrats today.

705
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: I can just tell you what we're doing in the

706
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 3: ultimate swing state, the biggest toughest swing state in the

707
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: entire country. I think, by the way, maybe one of

708
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 3: the things Republicans and Democrats agree on that Pennsylvania is

709
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 3: the toughest state and is that swing state. What we

710
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 3: have shown is an ability to bring Democrats and Republicans together.

711
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 3: I've got a divided legislature in Harrisburg and our state capital,

712
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 3: and yet we've been able to come together and make

713
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 3: historic investments in public education and public safety. Our economy

714
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 3: is growing. In fact, we have the only economy in

715
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: the Northeast that's growing in the United States. We've cut

716
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 3: taxes seven times, and we have an eight billion dollars surplus.

717
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 3: We're in a very strong fiscal position. Our crime rate

718
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 3: is down, educational opper tunity is up. Good things are

719
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: happening in our state and throughout it all. Every time

720
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 3: I've been on the ballot, we've won by setting a

721
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 3: record each time, and so record number of votes each time.

722
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 3: And so the point I'm making here is that the

723
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 3: focus to me is not on pontificating or what the

724
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: political pundits would say. It's on figuring out ways to

725
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 3: bring people together to get stuff done, to make a

726
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 3: difference in people's lives. Now, I'm from a state where

727
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 3: we've got sixty seven counties, and roughly fifty eight or

728
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 3: so of them, almost sixty of them are rural communities,

729
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 3: communities that don't typically vote for Democrats. I go there,

730
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 3: I spend a lot of time there. I've earned their

731
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 3: trust and their support. I also spend a lot of

732
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 3: time in our big cities like Philly and Pittsburgh and

733
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,479
Speaker 3: suburban communities as well, where folks support the work we're doing.

734
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 3: And no matter how different the terrain is, how different

735
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 3: the voter registration is, the folks I talk to every

736
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 3: day just kind of want the same few things. They

737
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 3: want a good for their kids and grandkids. They want

738
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 3: a safe community, they want economic opportunity, and they want

739
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 3: their freedoms and their liberties protected. That's what I hear

740
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 3: every day, and that's the focus that I have here

741
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and that's what we're going

742
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 3: to continue to stay focused on.

743
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 1: Do some of those good people at Pennsylvania. Are any

744
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: of them having second thoughts about their support for Donald

745
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: Trump given what has happened in his first year of

746
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 1: his second term.

747
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 2: What are you hearing from voters about that.

748
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 3: I do hear folks expressing second thoughts, and you know,

749
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 3: I've heard it around a number of things, But if

750
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 3: I can focus on just two of them where it's

751
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 3: been most pronounced, I've heard a lot from farmers who

752
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 3: are just getting absolutely screwed by these tariffs, and the

753
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 3: presidents acknowledge that the tariffs have heard farmers because he

754
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 3: put together this bailout fund that a whole lot of

755
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 3: our farmers haven't yet seen any money from so the

756
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 3: tariffs have really hurt our farmers. They're actually hurting our

757
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 3: domestic manufacturers, even though the president's purported reason for these

758
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 3: tariffs were to resure manufacturing, which would be a wonderful thing,

759
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 3: but our manufacturers here are getting hurt because of rising

760
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: prices and shuttered markets. So I hear a lot about that.

761
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 3: The other thing I've heard a lot about is when

762
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 3: the federal government broke its compact on SNAP, of course,

763
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 3: is the food Assistants program for those who were low

764
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: income who are just struggling to make ends.

765
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: Me.

766
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 3: That is a compact that existed for I think six

767
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 3: or seven decades, never been broken, and it was used

768
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,959
Speaker 3: as a tool in a political game in Washington, DC.

769
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 3: And there were a whole lot of people, including a

770
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: majority of SNAP recipients in Pennsylvania, who came from counties

771
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 3: that Donald Trump won. So I think those two issues

772
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: were too where I'd have folks come over to me,

773
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: oftentimes folks who voted for Trump and then turned around

774
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 3: voted for me as well, and who said, I know,

775
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 3: I voted for the guy, I like the guy, but

776
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 3: this is really hurting me, and I don't get why

777
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 3: he's doing it. You know, in many ways, I think

778
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 3: what you're seeing is Donald Trump is screwing over the

779
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: very people that put him in that position in the

780
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 3: first place, whether it's by cutting Medicaid and shuttering hospitals

781
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 3: and rural communities that are so critical, whether it's cutting

782
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 3: food assistance, or whether it's these tariffs that are making

783
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 3: it harder for our farmers and our rural constituents.

784
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: I'm just curious for my own interests. Are you worried

785
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: about the president's speech and Davos and the fact that

786
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: he seems to be wanting to recalibrate a world order

787
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 1: and a NATO alliance that has been in place since

788
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: the end of World War Two? And what did you

789
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: think of that speech.

790
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 3: I thought the speech was unhinged. I think more and

791
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 3: more he seems confused each day, and I thought that

792
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 3: was an example of a speech where he seemed confused.

793
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 3: He certainly was confusing Iceland and Greenland, but there were

794
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 3: other facts as well where I thought he was confused.

795
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: I think on the broader piece here, related to foreign policy,

796
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 3: there has been a marked shift in American foreign policy

797
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 3: under this president. Rather than trying to be a voice

798
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 3: for human rights, a voice for democracy, a voice for freedom,

799
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 3: a voice for economic opportunity for Americans all around the globe.

800
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 3: He is instead, I think, limiting America's voice to trying

801
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 3: to be a bully in one hemisphere, in seed the

802
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 3: other two hemispheres, to Russia and to China, to effectively say,

803
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 3: you guys, go do whatever you're going to do over there,

804
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 3: leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone. And here

805
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 3: in our hemisphere, we're going to dominate. How else do

806
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 3: you explain the way he bullies Canada, one of our

807
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 3: most trusted allies, and calls him the fifty first State,

808
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,320
Speaker 3: the level of disrespect he showed to former Prime Minister

809
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 3: Trudeau and now Prime Minister Carne, or the manner in

810
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 3: which he's gone after Greenland, or the way in which

811
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 3: he is threatening Latin America in the case of Venezuela,

812
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 3: actually operationalizing those threats. And so what I think we

813
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: are seeing is a foreign policy that limits America, that

814
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 3: actually makes things economically worse off for the American people,

815
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 3: and eviscerates many of the alliances we've relied on that

816
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 3: have helped guarantee the safety of the United States and

817
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 3: so sure. While it's true that European countries need to

818
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 3: pay more in to NATO. While it's true that other

819
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 3: countries need to step up and be a part of

820
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 3: some of those efforts that America has led on in

821
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 3: recent years or really over the last couple decades, it

822
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 3: is also true that we are less safe when you

823
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 3: break those alliances and you put us in a position

824
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 3: where we're forced to go it alone on all these things.

825
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: America has an extraordinary military. We should all be proud

826
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 3: of that. I certainly am. But military might alone is

827
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 3: not going to ensure the American people's safety. Diplomacy and

828
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 3: alliances are critically important, and what I see under this

829
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 3: president is the evisceration of both.

830
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: You've been so generous with your time. I just have

831
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: a couple more questions. Getting back to the Democratic Party,

832
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: it seems to be an existential question what direction this

833
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: party goes in. Does it go back to being more

834
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: centrists and the spirit of Bill Clinton, or does it

835
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: need to be more progressive in the spirit of Bernie

836
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: Sanders and AOC.

837
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: Where do you fall on that. I predict you're going

838
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: to say more centrist.

839
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 3: I would just say that the Democratic Party has some

840
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 3: extraordinary leaders right now, and I'm excited for the next

841
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 3: generation of leadership and the Democratic Party. And it is

842
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 3: true that that those Democratic leaders are on different parts

843
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 3: of the political spectrum. I would say that I would

844
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 3: caution anyone from saying, well, this particular representative or governor,

845
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 3: may or what have you, is on this part of

846
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 3: the spectrum, and this is on the other. I don't

847
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 3: think that's how the average person thinks about it. They

848
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 3: just want to know that you're on their side, that

849
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 3: you're going to take on the powerful and stand up

850
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 3: for the people, something I have done throughout my career.

851
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 3: I write about it in this book quite extensively. They

852
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 3: want to know that you're going to get stuff done

853
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 3: for them and make their lives a little bit better,

854
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 3: whether it means making their healthcare a little more affordable,

855
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 3: making their kids school a little bit better, making their

856
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 3: streets a little bit safer. And that's the kind of

857
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 3: work that I think is going to define our party

858
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 3: going forward. We are the party of freedom and liberty.

859
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 3: We are the party of standing up against the powerful,

860
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 3: not coddling them or not enriching them further. We are

861
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 3: the party that I believe has quite a big tent,

862
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 3: and you see that with some of the extra ordinary

863
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 3: leaders we have across the board serving in really important positions,

864
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 3: whether in Washington or in their states or cities. So

865
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 3: I'm bullish on the future of the Democratic Party. I'm

866
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 3: proud to be one voice in it, and I think

867
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 3: we're going to continue to hear other voices shine through.

868
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: If all that is true, Governor, that there's so many

869
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: great leaders, why is the party struggling so much, especially

870
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: when it stands in such sharp contrast to the Trump

871
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: administration and Republicans on Capitol Hill.

872
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: I actually think our party, particularly in recent months, has

873
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: really found its footing. I think what oftentimes people attribute

874
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 3: to struggling, and I'm not putting this on you, Katie,

875
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: but I have heard this from others, is the lack

876
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 3: of one particular voice leading the Democratic Party at a

877
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 3: time where there is one voice, Donald Trump leading the

878
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: Republican Party. And frankly, of course, there's not one person

879
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 3: leading our party right now. There shouldn't be. I think

880
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 3: we have some extraordinary leaders who bring a lot to

881
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 3: the table and who are doing really important work both

882
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 3: in the federal government in DC and also in the States,

883
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 3: and so I think this is an opportunity for our

884
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 3: party to be able to hear from a lot of

885
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 3: really terrific voices and to cultivate a vision going forward

886
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 3: as to all the specific things we will stand for

887
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 3: as we head into the next presidential election. But I

888
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: would also caution anyone who wants to just simply look

889
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 3: ahead to who that person is or what that particular

890
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 3: political lane is. I'd caution anyone from looking past these midterms.

891
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 3: You and I started this conversation an hour or so

892
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 3: ago by talking about the threats to our upcoming election

893
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 3: because of Donald Trump. I think the most important election

894
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 3: we face are these midterms. If you want to stop

895
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 3: the lawlessness that we are seeing in the streets of

896
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 3: Minneapolis and elsewhere, if you want to stop the chaos

897
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 3: and the cruelty and the corruption of Donald Trump, it

898
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,959
Speaker 3: starts by winning these midterms, by winning the US House

899
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 3: of Representatives, by winning these governors' races. I think there's

900
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 3: thirty six governors races across the country. By standing up

901
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 3: for the rule of law and embracing candidates that do

902
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 3: that important work. And so that's what I'm focused on,

903
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 3: is I know many Democrats are, and I think we've

904
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 3: got a lot of talented people to help lead us forward.

905
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: Are you the kind of guy who would be willing

906
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: to call balls and strikes against the national democratic establishment

907
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: if necessary?

908
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 3: I mean, I always have, and I write in this

909
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: book about times where I've disagreed with the sort of

910
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 3: party orthodoxy and where I've respectfully suggested my own way

911
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 3: of doing things. And again, I'm doing it in the

912
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 3: toughest state in the country to do it in here

913
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania, and I'm still standing and doing pretty well here,

914
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 3: as you acknowledge. And so it is important, I think,

915
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 3: to always speak your mind. I think it is important

916
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 3: to listen to the people you represent and have your

917
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 3: views reflect where those folks are in rural, urban, suburban communities. Democrats, Republicans,

918
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 3: independents alike. I've always tried to do that work, and

919
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 3: I'm going to continue to do that work going forward.

920
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: Governor Josh Shapiro, thank you for being so generous with

921
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,479
Speaker 1: your time for talking with me about your new book,

922
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: Where We Keep the Light, and about the state of

923
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: play politically in this country and abroad.

924
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 2: We really appreciate your time.

925
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie. It's been great to be with you.

926
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

927
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want

928
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,760
Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

929
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would

930
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

931
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Katie kirk Media. The executive producers are Me,

932
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

933
00:52:55,560 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

934
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,

935
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call,

936
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

937
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 1: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me

938
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

939
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

940
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.