Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Welcome to It Could Happen Here podcast about the most
Speaker 2: unhinged union story I have ever covered. I am your host,
Speaker 2: Mio Wung, and in a moment we will return to
Speaker 2: my interview with Yahoo Sports journalist Charles McDonald. So if
Speaker 2: you have not listened to the last episode, you should
Speaker 2: listen to the last episodes. We can get you up
Speaker 2: to the twenty twenties in terms of the horrifying and
Speaker 2: depressing story of the NFL Players Association's leadership gradually selling
Speaker 2: out more and more of their players.
Speaker 3: And in this episode, we're going to really sort.
Speaker 2: Of get down to the brass tacks of what's been
Speaker 2: happening in the twenty twenties and answering the question to
Speaker 2: what extent has the NFL paid in order to have
Speaker 2: a pro management installed at the head of the union.
Speaker 3: A question that is really distressingly. We have good evidence.
Speaker 2: Of this, but before we can get to that, we
Speaker 2: need to talk about one of the other absolutely horrifying
Speaker 2: things that this union regime has done, and that is
Speaker 2: the union covering.
Speaker 3: Up as reported by Public Poria. Originally it reports by
Speaker 3: an arbitration judge about whether or not the independent teams
Speaker 3: in the NFL, which are supposed to be businesses competing
Speaker 3: against each other. And I kind of emphasize this enough
Speaker 3: because this is a major portion of how the NFL's
Speaker 3: anti trust exemption is supposed to work, is that these
Speaker 3: teams are nominally competing against each other. So there is
Speaker 3: supposed to be a labor market with competition. But this
Speaker 3: document that the union covered up from an arbitration process
Speaker 3: they were in is about it has very good evidence
Speaker 3: of the league actively colluding in order to pay players less,
Speaker 3: and the union covered it up. So here we go
Speaker 3: back to our interview.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about this collusion thing, because I've been losing
Speaker 2: my fucking mind about this for a really long time
Speaker 2: and I cannot imagine just literally having evidence in your
Speaker 2: hand that the owners are colluding against your members, like
Speaker 2: like these are literally you, like this is supposed to be.
Speaker 4: You, and you're just sing hiding the report even like okay,
Speaker 4: so even if you lose the arbitration. Yeah, the fact
Speaker 4: that a judge wrote in a legal document that it
Speaker 4: was like beyond the benstead of a doubt that Roger
Speaker 4: Goodell and the thirty two owners were colluding.
Speaker 5: We've seen text messages between the.
Speaker 4: Cardinals owner and the Chargers owner talking about yeah, how
Speaker 4: much to pay Justin Herbert.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2: Can we explain the Lamar Jackson situation and like explain
Speaker 2: who Lamar Jackson is for people who don't watch football
Speaker 2: so they can understand how unhinged this is.
Speaker 4: Lamar Jackson is a wizard, is the best way that
Speaker 4: I could put it. Lamar Jackson. He is the franchise
Speaker 4: quarterback for the Baltimore Ravens, and I just think that
Speaker 4: anyone with the brain could have seen what.
Speaker 5: Was going off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, like with this situation, so so and even
Speaker 4: before Deshaun, even even before Lamar Jackson. You have to
Speaker 4: take it back to Deshaun Watson trade out of Houston.
Speaker 2: Oh god, the one trade we've ever covered on this show,
Speaker 2: because holy shit, dude, Oh but this this is.
Speaker 5: What got the Domino's rolling on this stuff.
Speaker 4: Where As terrible as Deshaun Watson is as a football
Speaker 4: player now and obviously as a human being, yeah, like
Speaker 4: right when he was in Houston, it feels like a
Speaker 4: different world, but he was the man, Like he was incredible,
Speaker 4: like to the point where the Texans I think his
Speaker 4: last year starting there, they went four and twelve, and
Speaker 4: it was like, so obviously not his fault, like in
Speaker 4: terms of efficiency, like he was right behind Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 4: to the top of the league. Like he got an
Speaker 4: apology from JJ Watt that year saying, like, dude, we
Speaker 4: wasted an absolutely incredible year from you. And then you
Speaker 4: know the thirty accusations of at best sexual mixed conduct,
Speaker 4: at worst sexual assault and in some of those cases.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really hideous shit.
Speaker 4: Right, So then it gets to a point where he
Speaker 4: the texts they don't want him there.
Speaker 5: He doesn't want to be there anymore.
Speaker 4: But you have what looks to be a franchise quarterback
Speaker 4: in his mid twenties available for any team to have,
Speaker 4: you know, with the trade. So my team, Sally d
Speaker 4: lash Falcons, they thought that they had a deal done
Speaker 4: for Deshaun Watson, and then the Cleveland Browns came in.
Speaker 4: And this is where the where the ownership you know,
Speaker 4: feedback with kind of gets broken, where Jimmy has them,
Speaker 4: breaks the ranks and says, I want this guy on
Speaker 4: my team so bad.
Speaker 5: You know, this is why I like no by.
Speaker 4: He ever hit free agency in the NFL, because this
Speaker 4: is what it would look like in terms of like
Speaker 4: when owners actually have to bid against each other for
Speaker 4: elite talent. Yeah, Jimmy has comes in and says, here's
Speaker 4: five years, two hundred and thirty million dollars. Every single
Speaker 4: penny will be guaranteed, no stipulations, nothing like that.
Speaker 2: Which is like not how this works normally, Like, no
Speaker 2: one gets guaranteed contracts, right, And.
Speaker 4: Because the previously the actual first player to get a
Speaker 4: fully guaranteed the contract from another team was actually Kirk
Speaker 4: Cousins with the Vikings when he left Washington. They gave
Speaker 4: him like a three year I think it was three
Speaker 4: years eighty eight million dollars fully guaranteed. But still that
Speaker 4: ain't five years, two hundred and thirty Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: And what the owners were mad about was not that
Speaker 4: you would seek out someone with the personal background Deshaun
Speaker 4: Watson to represent your franchise, is that you would pay
Speaker 4: any NFL player two hundred and thirty million dollars guaranteed.
Speaker 5: Because now that sins precedent.
Speaker 4: Because if you're Lamar Jackson whose contract was coming to
Speaker 4: an end at the season after de Shaun Watson signed
Speaker 4: this deal, I didn't touch those women. Yeah, I'm an
Speaker 4: MVP quarterback and I'm in my twenties. Why shouldn't I
Speaker 4: get a fully guaranteed contract. Yep, right, which is what
Speaker 4: he was doing. And the Ravens they said, okay, fine,
Speaker 4: go out into the market.
Speaker 5: And I felt like I was going.
Speaker 4: Insane during this because, oh my god, there were so
Speaker 4: many arguments from talking heads about why teams shouldn't sign
Speaker 4: Lamar Jackson. So he was hit with what's called a
Speaker 4: non exclusive franchise tag, which means the Ravens. I don't
Speaker 4: even know how how the idea of the franchise tag
Speaker 4: existing is another youth like labor.
Speaker 3: L hideously anti labor practice.
Speaker 4: Right, So his contract with the Ravens is over and
Speaker 4: they can hit him with an exclusive franchise tag, which
Speaker 4: means you will be playing for us next year. You
Speaker 4: basically have no say in it unless we remove this
Speaker 4: or you know, we work out a trade with somebody
Speaker 4: else that you cannot go negotiate with anyone else even
Speaker 4: though your contract has expired. And yeah, to be quote
Speaker 4: unquote fair, like, the payment is a average of the
Speaker 4: top five you know, yearly salaries of the position you play,
Speaker 4: so you will get paid like you know, a top
Speaker 4: five player for one year at your position. It really
Speaker 4: only goes to mostly valuable players that they're trying to extend.
Speaker 4: But they hit him with a non exclusive franchise tag,
Speaker 4: which means they have right a first refusal on if
Speaker 4: another team offers Lamar Jackson a contract, and that team
Speaker 4: would owe the Ravens two first round picks in order
Speaker 4: to sign Lamar Jackson. So, dude, Deshaun Watson just one
Speaker 4: for three. Yeah, and this rule is legally mandated. That
Speaker 4: is two first round picks. And I'm sure you know
Speaker 4: the Raves will probably ask for a little stuff beyond that,
Speaker 4: but I only have to give you two first round
Speaker 4: picks and I can just sign Lamar Jackson just like
Speaker 4: a generational quarterback, like right, right, right, at this point,
Speaker 4: we're talking about a quarterback who is like twenty five
Speaker 4: years old. He's the first unanimous MVP, which he one
Speaker 4: of his first season as a starter. Yeah, since Tom Brady.
Speaker 4: He's one of two players in like or you know,
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's two, but it's less than
Speaker 4: five players in the history of the league that have
Speaker 4: been unanimous MVPs. Every single person voted for Lamar Dacks
Speaker 4: to be an MVP, and the Ravens said, go ahead
Speaker 4: and negotiate with another team. And no one, no one
Speaker 4: even brought him in to talk to him, right, Like,
Speaker 4: it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: I grew up in Chicago, so like I grew up
Speaker 2: with the Bears, and my family are like a like
Speaker 2: a family like Seahawks fans. Right, Neither of those two
Speaker 2: teams have ever had a quarterback who's in the same
Speaker 2: stratosphere as this guy.
Speaker 3: Like this is right. These guys never like ever ever ever.
Speaker 4: Hit free agency, never ever, and people like they'll bend
Speaker 4: the rules to things that aren't written were let's say, oh,
Speaker 4: you know the Ravens will just match, make them match,
Speaker 4: then you have them.
Speaker 3: That's a competitive advantage for you.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 4: I hate that my favorite team can popped up in
Speaker 4: this Atlanta. But but Arthur Blank, he put his name
Speaker 4: on it saying, you know, the Falcons, they were trying out,
Speaker 4: you know, backup quarterback quality guys.
Speaker 5: Because after Matt Ryan left has been rider like Jesus.
Speaker 4: Christ, Marcus Mariota, dude, And and I'm sitting there like
Speaker 4: you're telling me that I can sign Lamar Jackson, and
Speaker 4: I got to give up two first round picks for him, Like, dude,
Speaker 4: pay him sixty million guaranteed every year.
Speaker 5: He's worth that much.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And Arthur Blank says, well, you know, Lamar Jackson,
Speaker 4: he's gonna get hurt too much for us to sign him.
Speaker 5: So no, no team signs him, No team even talks
Speaker 5: to him.
Speaker 4: So obviously he goes back to the Ravens, doesn't get
Speaker 4: the full guaranteed contract that the Shaun Watson got And
Speaker 4: that kind of put an end to it for a
Speaker 4: little bit until the power of journalism pops up. Poullotory
Speaker 4: does his his investigation. Here's about an arbitration, hearing about
Speaker 4: collusion in the NFL, and he gets his hands like
Speaker 4: on the documents that say that while Lamar Jackson was
Speaker 4: going through his free agency basically rejection by thirty one
Speaker 4: teams when he would have been upgrade for like.
Speaker 5: Twenty eight of them, twenty nine of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at the time, I would throw a number one
Speaker 2: overall rookie quarterback that I just drafted with the first
Speaker 2: ro overall pick out the fucking window thrown away to
Speaker 2: get Lamar Jackson, right.
Speaker 4: You could be a part of this. Two first round
Speaker 4: picks were giving you two first round picks plus. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know if like at that time, like it may
Speaker 4: have been like Kyler Murray or something like that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, take him like it's taken.
Speaker 2: It's unbelievable, Like I cannot he literally, Like the game
Speaker 2: of football is a fundamentally a different game now, but
Speaker 2: it was when when Lamar Jackson like started playing.
Speaker 3: Because of him, And it's just like he didn't take him.
Speaker 4: His influence on the NFL is so strong that we
Speaker 4: don't really do the black quarterback talking points anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 4: because the league was like, oh, we can't let that
Speaker 4: happen again, like when Lamar Jackson felt to thirty two
Speaker 4: and everyone's talking about doesn't he needs to play a
Speaker 4: different position, And in year two he wins an MVP.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the.
Speaker 4: Year after he signs his deal with the Ravens, he
Speaker 4: wins his second MVP. Like that kind of cool to fans,
Speaker 4: Like when you get to see guys like Kim Warre
Speaker 4: going first overall or even Kyler Murray going first of
Speaker 4: all and there's no talk about how smart they are
Speaker 4: as players.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like that's his influence directly.
Speaker 4: His success contribute to that, Like he is a Hall
Speaker 4: of fame. It kind of gives me chills, like think
Speaker 4: about like what he's accomplished concerning like what has this
Speaker 4: fact against him? Yeah, Like he he is such an
Speaker 4: important figure for this era of football and really just
Speaker 4: the whole league, like on the field and off the field,
Speaker 4: like what he means like culturally in society, for like
Speaker 4: for the chances that black man can get to play
Speaker 4: in a position that deemed like they were deemed not
Speaker 4: the place smart enough because he was so good that
Speaker 4: they said, we can't look that stupid again. This player
Speaker 4: was available. This player was available in his athletic primes.
Speaker 3: Every team could have drafted him. Every single team in
Speaker 3: the league could have drafted him, and they fucking didn't.
Speaker 4: The Ravens pass on him. It's like he was not
Speaker 4: even the first Ravens draft pick that year. No, they
Speaker 4: drafted Hayden Hurst twenty five overall before they drafted Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 5: Every single team passed on him, and he's one.
Speaker 4: He's one of eleven players in the history and NFL
Speaker 4: to win two MVPs. Every other player that has won
Speaker 4: two or more MVPs is either a Hall of Famer
Speaker 4: or actively playing. Aaron Rodgers and Pat Mahomes. That's it,
Speaker 4: Like this guy is a Hall of Famer already, and.
Speaker 2: He should have won a third by the way, like right,
Speaker 2: he should have won the third. But either way you're identical,
Speaker 2: like like statistical tie for like a third one.
Speaker 4: So yeah, he's first. He's the three time first team
Speaker 4: up pro. He's going to be a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 4: And the fact that nobody nobody called him in to
Speaker 4: say what what would it take? What contract are you
Speaker 4: looking for? That that's why I was like something something,
Speaker 4: something is so obviously not right here. The Colts traded
Speaker 4: two first round picks for a quarterback, like yes, right,
Speaker 4: precisely precisely, and like.
Speaker 3: They're starting a guy who broke his leg and then
Speaker 3: also New York's achilles like two years later, was like
Speaker 3: I just.
Speaker 5: Do Jalen Ramsey went for two first round picks and
Speaker 5: he's a great play. But he's a cornerback. You know,
Speaker 5: it's not even the same thing.
Speaker 3: So is the most important position in sports?
Speaker 5: Right? A first ballot Hall of famer was on the
Speaker 5: market in his prime and nobody talked about a contract
Speaker 5: except the team that owned that, you know, owned like
Speaker 5: the rights of first refusal and it was so frustrating
Speaker 5: to see, like my colleagues in the media say, oh,
Speaker 5: you know the ns were just gonna match. That's so disingenuous.
Speaker 5: That's so disingenuous because you're you're stripping Lamar like of
Speaker 5: his agency as a player one like he's better than
Speaker 5: every other quarterback that just about any team has. It
Speaker 5: will be such a severe upgrade.
Speaker 4: And you're also just like holding the line for what
Speaker 4: you're not getting cut of that money?
Speaker 5: Why are you lying for these people like that?
Speaker 4: But but Pablo, you know, Polo took back, like in
Speaker 4: his reporting, he found out that a judge agreed with
Speaker 4: the union that the players were being colluded against, like actively,
Speaker 4: like there's there's text messages and J. C.
Speaker 5: Tredder and Lloyd Howell they hit this from the union.
Speaker 2: Bro.
Speaker 5: If if you're a union and you have even if
Speaker 5: you lose.
Speaker 4: Arbitration, you have physical note from a judge that says
Speaker 4: you were included against, take your megaphone to the top
Speaker 4: of the talls mountain in the world and talk about this.
Speaker 4: Apply some pressure now, Like this is where I started
Speaker 4: to get curious, like why why did this happen? Because
Speaker 4: that part we still don't have enough information all like,
Speaker 4: like I need to like how much like if there's
Speaker 4: a kickback going back to like Jasey Treader, Yeah, how.
Speaker 5: Much is it? And we do know that Lloyd Howe.
Speaker 4: Part of the reason, also part of the reason why he
Speaker 4: was fired or had to resign was because he along
Speaker 4: with he along with a former former MLBPA union leader,
Speaker 4: Tony White, who was recently fired for banging his brother's
Speaker 4: wife who he hired to work at the mL LBU.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the NFLPA is so lucky that the MLBPA had
Speaker 2: a shadow.
Speaker 3: That's almost as embarrassing to the Strung Club.
Speaker 4: Maybe, But Lloyd Howe and Tony White, they were working
Speaker 4: together as part of.
Speaker 5: An eight man group of like union.
Speaker 4: Parasites like at the top of the corporate ladder in
Speaker 4: America to siphon money away from the union into their
Speaker 4: own personal pockets.
Speaker 5: Like this is what's running it.
Speaker 4: We know for a fact, Lloyd Antony White, who's the
Speaker 4: you know, baseball union head what it was because he
Speaker 4: no longer has his job or family.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that did for him, But fucking you brought this
Speaker 3: upon yourself.
Speaker 5: Right, he can't go home for Christ like that like
Speaker 5: he's done.
Speaker 4: They were part of a small group that was sifeing
Speaker 4: money away from union funds to line their own pockets.
Speaker 4: Like that is verified. They've been sued for that. So
Speaker 4: what else is going on here?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: What is the incentivization for j. C. Tredder to push
Speaker 4: someone like that through? And then the backside is Jac's
Speaker 4: bign as the union president expires, well, Lloyd How's the
Speaker 4: executive director, and Lloyd makes a new cushy role for
Speaker 4: JC as like you know, I don't remember what the
Speaker 4: role was called, but like.
Speaker 3: It's like if a strategy or something.
Speaker 4: Yes, chief strategy officer, so something that paid him like
Speaker 4: three million dollars a year, very handsomely punctually. Lloyd was off,
Speaker 4: you know, blowing money at the Trip club, and JC
Speaker 4: was kind of running like the actual data day things
Speaker 4: because he's the one that has a connection to the players, right,
Speaker 4: And now we've gone through a point where after Gene
Speaker 4: Upshaw dies, the two executive directors who followed him, as
Speaker 4: you know, the head of union, Jamar Smith and Lloyd Howe.
Speaker 4: Neither of those guys were NFL players, So you can
Speaker 4: understand how players might feel we've gotten a little bit
Speaker 4: too far from our roots, Like we don't have guys
Speaker 4: who are from our background interested in, you know, players
Speaker 4: and what we go through, which leads back to j. C. Trader,
Speaker 4: who played for the Packers, played for the Browns, was
Speaker 4: at his Peakman, he was a good player. Like I'm
Speaker 4: not gonna take that away from Like, he was a
Speaker 4: good starting center on a lot of good offensive lines
Speaker 4: in Cleveland that didn't win any games, no, but they
Speaker 4: they blocked the hell out of people, man Like, like
Speaker 4: like when you go back, you look at some of
Speaker 4: those lines, like they had Joe Thomas and Alex Snack
Speaker 4: and Mitchell Schwartz, Joe Patonio, like they have some stars
Speaker 4: that are out there winning four or five games a year.
Speaker 4: So Lloyd Halliver resigns in a mess. JC is still
Speaker 4: the Chief Tragedy offers of the NFLPA.
Speaker 3: I think he resigns eventually from there.
Speaker 4: But yes, yes, yes, after what HALLI resigns, j C
Speaker 4: resigns too. So now we're up to last summer summer
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five. Yeah, eight months ago, right, it's March
Speaker 4: twenty seven, eight months ago j C tried to resign
Speaker 4: from the Chief Tragedy officer role that was cut out
Speaker 4: for him and says he said in an interview to
Speaker 4: my friend Jonathan Jones, I have no interest in any
Speaker 4: leadership roles in then moving forward, he said, I have
Speaker 4: given this my all. I've given everything I had. I'm
Speaker 4: gonna go home and be a family man. I have
Speaker 4: no interest in this at all. And it seemed like
Speaker 4: it until this month when j C pounced back up
Speaker 4: as one of the finalists for the new executive director
Speaker 4: role that's was previously left by Lloyd Howe.
Speaker 5: Now this is where it's murky.
Speaker 4: I don't know, like all the processes that go on
Speaker 4: with like how they decide like who's gonna, you know,
Speaker 4: do what, like they apparently they have three hundred candidates.
Speaker 4: It will have down the three. I don't ask some
Speaker 4: players was going on in the past couple of weeks.
Speaker 4: They don't know like how like all this was selected.
Speaker 4: But they are presented with three finalists for the executive
Speaker 4: director role to vote on j C.
Speaker 5: Tredder, who has popped up out of nowhere.
Speaker 4: Then the commissioner of the American Athletic Conference, so like
Speaker 4: Temple and you know those East Coast schools, like like
Speaker 4: James Madison or whatever, like he's overseeing that.
Speaker 3: It's like a college football commissioner.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, like like yeah, college football, college football commission
Speaker 4: Like he's talking to like the president of Rice University
Speaker 4: about like scheduling games against Toledo or some shit. Ch
Speaker 4: But see you Jase Trader, the American Conference Commissioner, not
Speaker 4: even like the ACC, the aa C, right say ass Conference.
Speaker 4: It used to be the Big East, like they're stolen
Speaker 4: Big East valor this this guy was running against Jayce Tratder.
Speaker 5: And also the third was a former Hollywood union.
Speaker 4: Exec who didn't really seem to be that interested in
Speaker 4: the role in the first place.
Speaker 5: So we get down to the election.
Speaker 4: Day and we find out the American Conference Commissioner drops out.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, on election day he dropped right. Okay, so
Speaker 4: now so now we're dealing with We've had two executive
Speaker 4: directors back to back, Morris Smith, Lord's howe not football
Speaker 4: players didn't go well.
Speaker 5: Ja C.
Speaker 4: Tretder was part of that. But he played football, right,
Speaker 4: So you see the JAYC. Tratder or this Hollywood guy
Speaker 4: who doesn't give a crap. I forget his name, but
Speaker 4: his background wasn't like always a qleaness in terms of
Speaker 4: you know, actually getting things done, in terms of you know,
Speaker 4: being pro labor all the time, ultimately as fucked up
Speaker 4: as it is. That's an easy choice if you're a player.
Speaker 4: These are my two options. I'm gonna take the guy
Speaker 4: who at least has played football.
Speaker 5: So you had j. C.
Speaker 4: Tredder, who's now back as the executive director eight months
Speaker 4: after he said he had no interest in being any
Speaker 4: type of union leadership, and.
Speaker 3: Like somehow this whole process has like stage manage. He's
Speaker 3: like back again, right.
Speaker 4: But to me, this lynchpin right here is actually most
Speaker 4: fascinating part of what's happened. And this is where, like
Speaker 4: if you listen to this podcast, probably won't sound like
Speaker 4: the conspiracy. If you're not thinking about labor relations in America,
Speaker 4: it might sound like conspiracy to you.
Speaker 5: But j C.
Speaker 4: Tredder when he was the president, like his right hand man,
Speaker 4: I think it was like the vice president was Jayalen
Speaker 4: Reeves maben Or was very important. He was especially seams
Speaker 4: linebacker for the lines for a long time. He became
Speaker 4: the union president after j. C. Tretder left and you know,
Speaker 4: became like the chief strategy officer. So hesically followed in
Speaker 4: j C. Treators' footsteps as the union president. So you know,
Speaker 4: while all this shapey stuff's going on, Jalen Reeves Mayban
Speaker 4: is an underrated part as you know, the new union
Speaker 4: president because Lloyd was executive director.
Speaker 5: J C had this new role as the chief strategy officer.
Speaker 4: But Jalen Reaves Mayban is sitting there as the president
Speaker 4: of the union, so obviously he is involved in this somehow, right,
Speaker 4: Like he is involved.
Speaker 5: With like the cover up for the players.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, not being as aggressive as you should
Speaker 4: be towards ownership in terms of gave up a seventieth
Speaker 4: game dog Like that's insane and you've got nothing back
Speaker 4: for it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So there's a clock though, in terms of how long
Speaker 4: you can like be removed from being a player and
Speaker 4: still be the NFLPA president. And last year Jalen maybe
Speaker 4: and he had been out of the league, so his
Speaker 4: clock was almost up. I think it's within yes, two years,
Speaker 4: two years. So if you fought the league, you're not
Speaker 4: signing a contract like no one's pursuing you, like you
Speaker 4: to just get filed as retired even if you're not,
Speaker 4: even if you haven't come out and say like I'm retired.
Speaker 4: Like there's a bunch of players that never said I'm retired,
Speaker 4: but nobody's signed them, like t Y Hilton.
Speaker 5: T Y Hilton just functually retired, like yeah, two weeks ago.
Speaker 4: He hasn't played like five years, okay, but he has
Speaker 4: been placed in a retired file in the NFL. As
Speaker 4: far as just like labeling things go, and if you
Speaker 4: are retired, if you are labels retired, you can't be
Speaker 4: the nflpat president.
Speaker 5: Makes good, perfect sense.
Speaker 4: So okay, this does not sound crazy probably the people
Speaker 4: who listen to this podcast. Right, If you are one
Speaker 4: of thirty two owners, right, and you have this power
Speaker 4: structure of an organization that you negotiate against, the NFLPA,
Speaker 4: this power structure is very friendly towards you. You know,
Speaker 4: they've given you a lot over the past fifteen years
Speaker 4: since you ripped up the two thousand and six Cbah.
Speaker 5: How much would you pay to keep that in place? Right?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 5: How much would you pay to keep it in place?
Speaker 4: And I haven't seen many people talking about this part
Speaker 4: of it, but yeah, the Chicago Bears signed Jalen Reeves
Speaker 4: Maybin this fall. Oh my god, right to a betterment deal.
Speaker 4: I looked it up. I think he played like forty
Speaker 4: special team snaps for them this season. But that resets
Speaker 4: his clock. That resets his clock to be president of
Speaker 4: the union. So now we get to the end of
Speaker 4: the season. Yep, Jailerryvaven runs again to be president. I'm
Speaker 4: not sure anybody ran against him. No one's told us
Speaker 4: who the other Cannions were. Yep, if there were other candidates,
Speaker 4: And now he's the president of the union again after
Speaker 4: he was almost barred from it. Does any bear Shani
Speaker 4: remember like any play the Jalen Reeves Maben made no right.
Speaker 5: Like I wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I watched every game of that team, y'all. I guess
Speaker 3: they're like two that I missed for those on planes.
Speaker 4: But like no, but okay, But but some think about
Speaker 4: it from disrespect. If you are an owner and you
Speaker 4: have this power structure that is generating billions capital b
Speaker 4: billions of dollars back in your direction away from the
Speaker 4: people that they represent, would it be worth five hundred
Speaker 4: thousand dollars keep that dealing and a little roster spot
Speaker 4: at the bottom.
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: Now that's the part that I haven't seen people you know,
Speaker 4: bring up as much because it get stuck on Trader.
Speaker 4: But Treader's right hand man was almost ineligible to be
Speaker 4: the president of the NFLPA. Yeah, and he pops up
Speaker 4: in this little role when it looks like his career
Speaker 4: is over, like they signed him late in the season
Speaker 4: to play special teams. Really, you should bumple some of
Speaker 4: them in practice squad to go do that, because because
Speaker 4: you want guys that you've already you know, developed a relationship,
Speaker 4: guys you've started, you started training working with to get
Speaker 4: those reps. Some outside guy like coming into play special
Speaker 4: teams that you know that's it's unnecessary. It's unnecessary.
Speaker 3: It's been out of the lead too, Like, yeah, there's.
Speaker 4: No reason to do it unless you, as a power
Speaker 4: structure are interested in him having eligibility to keep funneling
Speaker 4: you money yep, at expense of the players. And I've
Speaker 4: really changed my tune like on players not carrying over
Speaker 4: the past month just from talking to guys, like because
Speaker 4: I used to cover the Jets and the Giants like
Speaker 4: for a newspaper here in New York City, Like this is
Speaker 4: what I've done for the past ten years.
Speaker 5: I've met a lot of guys.
Speaker 4: They are like purious because you're like, what is this
Speaker 4: mechanism that is allowing you guys to operate with so
Speaker 4: much secrecy?
Speaker 5: Where you have J. C. Trader, I mean shout.
Speaker 4: Out to like the people who ran against him or
Speaker 4: were there for a minute, but functionally, like practically he
Speaker 4: ran unopposed for the executive director role. And so you
Speaker 4: whittled it out from three hundred candidates to three and
Speaker 4: one of them is J. C. Tratder and the other
Speaker 4: is the commissioner of like the sixth mostly important college
Speaker 4: football conference in the country, and then a Hollywood movie
Speaker 4: like Union exact guy. I mean, that's that's that's functionally unopposed.
Speaker 4: And then with Jalen reason Laban, we don't even know
Speaker 4: if anyone ran against him. So yeah, these guys are
Speaker 4: just walking back into power yep. And the question that
Speaker 4: I and players and other drills have what is that
Speaker 4: mechanism that is operating in the shadows that is allowing
Speaker 4: this to happen? And how much is it worth? Because
Speaker 4: now we're coming up on a new CBA negotiation, they're
Speaker 4: probably going to get an eighteenth game in eighteenth like
Speaker 4: you you have gone from in twenty years, You've gone
Speaker 4: from a spot where you had revenue majority. Even if
Speaker 4: it wasn't the sixty percent fifty two fifty three, that's
Speaker 4: better than forty seven. And like the literal death of
Speaker 4: Gene Upshaw. Yeah, it like killed this union in a
Speaker 4: way that I don't know if it's recoverable from because
Speaker 4: you've sent precedent over two cbas likely to be three
Speaker 4: that you will give up anything for.
Speaker 3: What though, yeah, for nothing, but for what, Like.
Speaker 4: Like Roger Goodell should never be coming out and saying
Speaker 4: I'm glad that j. C.
Speaker 5: Tretder was named the executives, Like j C. Tredder should
Speaker 5: be a pain in his past.
Speaker 4: No, And it just it's sad to me, like as
Speaker 4: someone like who like I love the sport so much
Speaker 4: and to see like what's happening to the union, it's
Speaker 4: horrible because ultimately, like we're so short sighted that you
Speaker 4: know what what's happening front me, like right now or today,
Speaker 4: it's the only thing that matters. But like there's gonna
Speaker 4: be real consequences for these guys for decades, and man,
Speaker 4: like I remember my first year covering the Jets and
Speaker 4: the Giants for the Daily News up here in New
Speaker 4: York was twenty nineteen and the Jets had a legend's.
Speaker 5: Day like where a bunch of guys that came back
Speaker 5: and they were on during halftime.
Speaker 4: For crappy teams do and you have nothing to talk
Speaker 4: about then, like you talk about talk about the good
Speaker 4: old this, right, yeah, but you know these guys that
Speaker 4: come up and they were hanging out with us in
Speaker 4: the press box before they went down on the field
Speaker 4: of the halftime. These are like fifty year old men
Speaker 4: like on canes and stuff like that, Like like my
Speaker 4: dad's sixty and he still shoots hoops sometimes like at
Speaker 4: the gym. These are like forty five fifty year old
Speaker 4: men that they can't walk with that assistance that are
Speaker 4: like like they walk around like and they're forgetting, like,
Speaker 4: oh what I just turn this corner to do like
Speaker 4: all the time, like you're talking to them and you
Speaker 4: have to keep reminding like refresh, like refreshing them on
Speaker 4: what we were talking about, as if it's like chat GBT,
Speaker 4: you know, like and it's sad, but when you see
Speaker 4: like like the material restrictions that these guys have in
Speaker 4: their own lives post playing, and these guys like they're
Speaker 4: not all rich, like they're just normal people. It's it's
Speaker 4: sad that this union has capitulated to the owners for
Speaker 4: such a violent job. And sure, like you can say,
Speaker 4: like you know, no one's telling you to be a
Speaker 4: football player, but that's the only option a lot of
Speaker 4: these guys have, like to go be football players and
Speaker 4: to go put their body on the line just so
Speaker 4: their family can live.
Speaker 5: In comfort for a few years. Oh it's sad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like it's the actual poverty draft. It hits
Speaker 3: way way, way more.
Speaker 2: People than the military does, like significantly more. And I
Speaker 2: think it's something that's really really really badly understroud on
Speaker 2: the left because like people on the left head not
Speaker 2: to care about sports stuff. But it's like football is
Speaker 2: a structural part of the entire American economy. It's a
Speaker 2: structural part of our the entire American educational system, like
Speaker 2: half of the educational system is designed to funnel people
Speaker 2: into this sport, specifically so these people could make fucking
Speaker 2: money off of it.
Speaker 3: Yes, and that stuff shapes everything.
Speaker 4: And I understand like why I left these like they
Speaker 4: don't care about for us, Like I get it. But
Speaker 4: if the NFL were to cease existing, tomorrow. That would
Speaker 4: be like a major collapse within the US economy. Yeah,
Speaker 4: like I'm I'm not joking. Basically, everything you watch, especially now,
Speaker 4: is subsidized by some NFL game, right, Like yeah, that's
Speaker 4: that's why these companies exist. If you if you go
Speaker 4: back every single year and you look at the top
Speaker 4: of one hundred most watched TV shows of the year,
Speaker 4: ninety seven of them will be NFL games, And you'll
Speaker 4: have like the two Coms football games and like the
Speaker 4: Macy's things.
Speaker 2: Giving pretty yeah, maybe like maybe the World Series, right,
Speaker 2: maybe the World Series.
Speaker 4: Like right, maybe the Oscars cane like maybe the Oscars
Speaker 4: versus like Jets Bills like Week twelve that's.
Speaker 3: Not flow like throw on a Thursday night like right,
Speaker 3: But that's.
Speaker 5: How big this is.
Speaker 4: And I I would implore people to not say, hey,
Speaker 4: who cares about this? It's important. And also like there's
Speaker 4: there's there's also just like clear like you look at
Speaker 4: a game, there's clear racial divides. Yeah, and who has
Speaker 4: to play this game? Who doesn't have to play this game?
Speaker 4: There are studies that show that like upwards of eighty
Speaker 4: percent of black boys who play sports want to be
Speaker 4: professional athletes. I mean because that's that's it really like
Speaker 4: it's that yeah, or I'm gonna go do I don't
Speaker 4: fucking know, and and and those are really your options.
Speaker 4: And that's why I say, like I've I've used I've
Speaker 4: used the NFL to kin kind of figure out my
Speaker 4: way like through you know how I feel about things,
Speaker 4: because there's so real desperation from these people to get out.
Speaker 4: And the problem, like also with the union is like,
Speaker 4: let's say, like some of these guys come from nothing.
Speaker 4: Like the fact that they could figure out a way
Speaker 4: to get to a bus that woul take them to
Speaker 4: a school where they could play football is like a
Speaker 4: major accomplishment in the rown. And the fact that you
Speaker 4: can go from that to making three hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 4: in a year at twenty one, that will distort you
Speaker 4: as well, because now you've made such an extreme jump
Speaker 4: so fast, probably gonna be a little bit complacent. You
Speaker 4: might not be thinking about what's next because and I
Speaker 4: say this for like a twenty one year old person,
Speaker 4: you spent the last twenty years of your life fucking
Speaker 4: fighting like just to get to the next day.
Speaker 5: I remember one of the craziest things back in the.
Speaker 4: Day, like when Laramie Tompsall was at Ole Miss like
Speaker 4: back when they got busted. Before the nil stuff going out,
Speaker 4: there's this text thread between Laramie Tumpson's old line coach
Speaker 4: and his mom saying like, hey, like can you send
Speaker 4: money for the light bill this month? Yeah, he's a
Speaker 4: five star starter on your team that is generating millions
Speaker 4: of dollars and you could get in trouble for sending
Speaker 4: his mom like two hundred bucks to keep the lights on.
Speaker 4: You know, there's a there's a real like systemic, like
Speaker 4: obvious extraction of value from these black men, and once
Speaker 4: it's over, they say, go up, get fucked until you know,
Speaker 4: we had like the CTE lawsuit where they have to
Speaker 4: payout billions of dollars. But ultimately you just kind of
Speaker 4: come in and get discarded. Which is why this union
Speaker 4: is so important. And the fact that you can be
Speaker 4: JC Tretterer use the trust that you have earned through
Speaker 4: your own blood, sweat and tears of being an NFL
Speaker 4: player and good enough to stand on your own as
Speaker 4: like almost a decade long NFL starter. The fact that
Speaker 4: you would use that and turn around and like just
Speaker 4: capitulate the owners like that's scum hideous, it's scum, and
Speaker 4: it's it's it's sad and just everyone here deserves better
Speaker 4: except for the people at top. And there needs to
Speaker 4: be some answers on why are you guys doing this?
Speaker 4: They're not doing for no reason. There has to be
Speaker 4: something there. That's the part that we don't know.
Speaker 2: One thing I want to kind of go back to
Speaker 2: for seconds, like how they're able to do this. I
Speaker 2: don't know the exact mechanisms of how they specifically have
Speaker 2: been able to do this, because every union is structured
Speaker 2: like kind of differently. But this is something that's actually,
Speaker 2: unfortunately like pretty common in even sort of like progressive
Speaker 2: unions where yeah, you know, like we've had people on
Speaker 2: this show a few times who were trying to dislodge
Speaker 2: this clique that used to run actually I'm not sure
Speaker 2: if they're still running it, but they used to run
Speaker 2: the Big Nurses union, like a huge portion of the
Speaker 2: country's nurses, and so okay. One of the problems here
Speaker 2: is that, like you need elections, even if they're well publicized,
Speaker 2: even if you are trying to get everyone to vote,
Speaker 2: have really really low turnout. Members unless they're really engaged,
Speaker 2: do not pay attention to it. Yeah, and that's not
Speaker 2: even really engaged in the sense of engaging union activities,
Speaker 2: because even most of the people who like are really
Speaker 2: engaged in like I want to go on strike or
Speaker 2: like I want to I'm gonna show up to this
Speaker 2: like contract session are voting in the union elections because
Speaker 2: no one knows it's happening. No one knows who any
Speaker 2: of the candidates are. It's no one cares. It's like
Speaker 2: it's it's an even more extreme version of the problem
Speaker 2: with like no one voting in regular elections, and so
Speaker 2: with a really small amount of votes, you can just
Speaker 2: get you and your faction installed for generations. Right, Like
Speaker 2: there are admin caucuses in a whole bunch of unions,
Speaker 2: like and we're talking about like like the Teamsters, and
Speaker 2: like the union's on that scale. We're like, yeah, there was.
Speaker 2: It was a huge deal when the Teamsters I finally
Speaker 2: ran out their ADMIN caucus. But like, these these people
Speaker 2: are in power for half a century, super empowered for
Speaker 2: like generations of these guys are able to stay in
Speaker 2: these unions, and they're able to do it because it's
Speaker 2: really really easy to control union elections, especially once you're empowered.
Speaker 2: And this is something like I've talked about on this
Speaker 2: fucking show, Like I've seen union staffers whose job it
Speaker 2: is to do organizing get fired for telling their own
Speaker 2: members to read a contract there but they were being
Speaker 2: asked to vote on because that was considered a threat
Speaker 2: to the power base, right. And the problem is is
Speaker 2: that once you're running the union, you can troll the
Speaker 2: jobs of all of the staff be these you And
Speaker 2: one of the things that actually came out in public
Speaker 2: tourist reporting is that they offered anyone who'd been at
Speaker 2: the unit for more than seven years a buyout.
Speaker 3: And so you know, you can watch them do like
Speaker 3: they're doing.
Speaker 2: A systemic purge of all of this stuff, and then
Speaker 2: like the moment, Shredder is like leading the search, right,
Speaker 2: he's able to use his position, like his very specific
Speaker 2: position in this bureaucracy, like as a president of the union,
Speaker 2: to like go change the terms of the search so
Speaker 2: that it's no secret and you can just keep using whatever.
Speaker 2: Every position you take over gives you a little bit
Speaker 2: more sort of bureaucratic power that you can use to
Speaker 2: rat fuck people. And once they're in, it's like it
Speaker 2: is possible to dislodge them, like I mean, this is
Speaker 2: something that happened with the UAW in the last like
Speaker 2: that was twenty twenty, twenty twenty three. They got in
Speaker 2: and they dislodge an admin cost that had been in
Speaker 2: power and like doing similar shit to this for like
Speaker 2: decades and decades and decades, and so it is possible
Speaker 2: for you know, reform caucuses inside the union to organize
Speaker 2: and drive the leadership out, but it's really hard, and
Speaker 2: the moment you start doing that, like every single person
Speaker 2: who's any way affiliated with you will get targeted for
Speaker 2: retaliation by the union.
Speaker 5: And yes, that's that's what has happened. Yeah with j C.
Speaker 4: Trader Ye again, Pablo Tori, he released an interview two
Speaker 4: weeks ago with you know, longtime security officer who was
Speaker 4: basically one of the people who was like, hey, yeah,
Speaker 4: what's going on here with DoD j C try to
Speaker 4: anoid house stuff.
Speaker 5: And they fired him for that, Like the.
Speaker 4: Even fired the security guy who's been working like yeah,
Speaker 4: keep been working there since like Dean upsal I was
Speaker 4: working there. So he he's part of the old guard
Speaker 4: that is there for like the material like improvement of
Speaker 4: players lives, like as far as they can take it
Speaker 4: without you know, dealing with the real bounds of like
Speaker 4: we got to kind of get this number for the
Speaker 4: season or our worker base is gonna be harm Like
Speaker 4: those guys don't really work there anymore. Yeah, someone like
Speaker 4: Dominicq fox Worth, he's like he's on TV now, you know,
Speaker 4: and I know he cares a lot about this, but
Speaker 4: he's off doing different things.
Speaker 5: And I think.
Speaker 4: Another thing that that's tough when you look back at like, okay,
Speaker 4: who is playing football. These are ultimately young men who
Speaker 4: like they enter this union without any knowledge of like
Speaker 4: how unions work, Like what are the finances behind any
Speaker 4: of this? You're geared to take like your high school
Speaker 4: free time and your college free time, especially now that
Speaker 4: these colleges are thrown out cash, Like you are honed
Speaker 4: to care about football and get football done. And you know,
Speaker 4: once we get to college, like we'll see what it is.
Speaker 4: Hopefully you can get your degree and keep it moving.
Speaker 4: But most of the time, like these guys, they don't
Speaker 4: know what any of this stuff is. So you have
Speaker 4: like this very uninformed you know, labor force that's game
Speaker 4: turned out two three years at a time. It would
Speaker 4: probably be pretty easy, honestly to create a blockade of
Speaker 4: knowledge when the people who could be asking you about
Speaker 4: this are going to be irrelevant.
Speaker 5: If you just hold the lines for a year, you know,
Speaker 5: it's It's sad.
Speaker 2: The other thing about this, right, is that these guys
Speaker 2: don't have even the basic concentive that even like the
Speaker 2: UAW and their bost In Shrench had, which is like,
Speaker 2: if you fuck this up enough, there won't be a union.
Speaker 2: It was like these guys, what, there's always going to
Speaker 2: be something called the NFL Players Association, right because the
Speaker 2: NFL needs it, Yeah, for cover, which means they don't
Speaker 2: even have to do the minimal organizing work or like
Speaker 2: even the minimal like pretending to actually fight for the
Speaker 2: people who are supposed to be the union because it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter to them, Like why the fuck would they
Speaker 2: Why the fuck would they try to onboard new people
Speaker 2: like into the union and like get their involved with
Speaker 2: They're like why are they here? They can just fucking
Speaker 2: go home and like pash their checks and get whatever
Speaker 2: the fuck benefits are getting from the league for doing
Speaker 2: this shit.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I want to know those benefits are. I
Speaker 5: just want to know.
Speaker 3: Yep, me too.
Speaker 5: I would love like really because when it gets down to,
Speaker 5: like how much is your soul worth? Man?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like JC is one of those guys ultimately who
Speaker 4: has made enough money playing football where he doesn't have
Speaker 4: to do this, you know, he doesn't have to go
Speaker 4: around like this. Like it's it's a little baffling in
Speaker 4: that sense, Like and I know that, Like I guess
Speaker 4: something that I guess I struggle with.
Speaker 5: Sometimes, like why are y'all doing this fuck m shit?
Speaker 4: Like why Like it's really like that, like a couple
Speaker 4: more bucks really means that much to you, Like you're
Speaker 4: really willing to sell out all these people? But the
Speaker 4: answer is yes, The answer is yes. Personally, I can't
Speaker 4: really reconcile that. It's abhorrent. It's terrible, but it's just
Speaker 4: the truth of the matter is so hopefully they can
Speaker 4: figure out a way to kind of dismantle this. But like, man,
Speaker 4: even the fact that like man, you got like the
Speaker 4: Bears they signed Jalen Reeves made all of a sudden
Speaker 4: like his clocks back and now you have the same
Speaker 4: power structure as you hit another landmark where you're gonna
Speaker 4: be negotiating for eighteen games. That's a tough thing topple over. Man,
Speaker 4: that's a tough thing to get past. It's really difficult. Yeah,
Speaker 4: eat at Arby's. Actually, don't do that. Arby is not good.
Speaker 3: No, it's just.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a decent point to sort of
Speaker 2: end on unless you have a Yeah, do you have
Speaker 2: anything else? You want to make sure people know about
Speaker 2: this whole thing.
Speaker 4: I would say, like, if you're not watching football, you should.
Speaker 4: It's a great game. I I say this as somewhere
Speaker 4: football has like materially harmed me. Like my back is
Speaker 4: messed up. I've had two hernia, a dis my back
Speaker 4: sol seventeen. I turned thirty two this year. It's like
Speaker 4: half my life. You know, would I do it again?
Speaker 5: Fuck? Yeah, I don't know, don't I don't know.
Speaker 4: And like this this is where like my my like
Speaker 4: the people who know me, they like, man, you're wired
Speaker 4: a little differently, But I think that standard for football players.
Speaker 5: Like it's a really complicated relationship.
Speaker 4: But like all my best friends are still like football
Speaker 4: related in some way, whether it's college or journalism now
Speaker 4: or you know, going back to high school back in
Speaker 4: the day. Like I still talk to so many people
Speaker 4: that I played football with, Like I'm watching like I'm
Speaker 4: the guy watching these like crappy, like Division two games
Speaker 4: like on a on a Friday.
Speaker 5: Night, it's it's awesome.
Speaker 4: So like you know, yeah, you should check out Lamar Jackson,
Speaker 4: Like just go on YouTube, just look up a highlight
Speaker 4: and then.
Speaker 3: It's just wild.
Speaker 4: Like you know, when you when you've watched football or
Speaker 4: really any of these sports, like they are just inescapable.
Speaker 4: I hate to even say microcosms of like American society
Speaker 4: because like this is obviously this is this is American society.
Speaker 4: Like when you just look on the influence that football has,
Speaker 4: like the economy as a whole, and the way that
Speaker 4: people who are less fortunate are able to be extracted
Speaker 4: and run into the ground, yeah, and forgotten even by
Speaker 4: the people who are supposed to protect them. I think
Speaker 4: that's something that we see here just about every arena
Speaker 4: of American life. So I would just implore some of
Speaker 4: our our fellow left us you don't be the who
Speaker 4: cares about sports, because whether you know about it, sports
Speaker 4: is in interacting and directly impacting your life in this
Speaker 4: country every single day. And I think it's important to
Speaker 4: kind of care about some of the labor practices that
Speaker 4: are going on, even if you know the labor practices
Speaker 4: are around Lamar Jackson getting paid you know, sixty million
Speaker 4: dollars a year over.
Speaker 5: Fifty million dollars a year. But it's still it's still important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And I think there's I think there's
Speaker 2: two there's two points that can make there. One is
Speaker 2: that like, yeah, I don't know, like it was it was.
Speaker 2: It was the fucking like transwomanted college sports thing was
Speaker 2: like one of the two avenues through which like, oh wait,
Speaker 2: hold on, a bunch of us just don't have fucking
Speaker 2: rights now. Yeah, And you know, and like and that
Speaker 2: that kind of like cultural stuff that comes.
Speaker 3: Out of places that were just not usually.
Speaker 4: Right right, and just to to tackle onto that as
Speaker 4: we've seen over you know, the past few months, and
Speaker 4: as many dangered and misrepresented and punchdown communities have said
Speaker 4: to y'all forever, and I say, this is a person.
Speaker 5: If they do it to us, yep, we'll do it
Speaker 5: to you.
Speaker 4: At some points, it's just sad that like we've gotten
Speaker 4: to the point where you know, you've been fighting and
Speaker 4: screaming for so long, Like, bro, could you just turn
Speaker 4: your head this way and just look you see, like, bro,
Speaker 4: we're the same man. We're all just humans out here
Speaker 4: trying to make it that thought process is just so
Speaker 4: violently opposed by the powers that be, and it's just
Speaker 4: so ingrained in our society, like certain people have to
Speaker 4: get stepped on that you will let yourself get stepped on.
Speaker 5: And now, shit, we got videos.
Speaker 4: Of you know, people getting executed in the street in Minneapolis,
Speaker 4: and what's happened.
Speaker 5: Nothing, Just like.
Speaker 4: Every other police shooting, you know, of a black person
Speaker 4: or a transperson getting killed, like nothing happened, and nothing
Speaker 4: keeps happening, and ultimately we get to a point where
Speaker 4: that's just the norm. So shit, there's a lot of
Speaker 4: stuff to fight, but you can even see like how
Speaker 4: the NFL union has caused followed that same like deterioration. Shit,
Speaker 4: you know, you go back to the two thousand eleventh CBA.
Speaker 4: You threw the rookies under the bus, and then what
Speaker 4: them is do they came and took your money too?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Right, And then when it came down to you know,
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty CBA, you guys have set such a
Speaker 4: precedent of us running your pockets that we will set
Speaker 4: the hard, non negotiable stance of an extra football game
Speaker 4: and you will capitulate. That's everywhere, man, that that is
Speaker 4: everywhere in the corporate structure and lafe of America.
Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, sports and is capable. Check out Lamar
Speaker 5: Jackson on Sundays. It's good stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, I think.
Speaker 2: I think. The one last thing I want to say
Speaker 2: is that, you know, the Reform Caucus taking over the
Speaker 2: UAW was something that was seen as impossible. Like it
Speaker 2: was like literally like every union has the reform Caucus,
Speaker 2: they normally lose every single time, and then one day
Speaker 2: they won and like completely changed what the labor movement
Speaker 2: in America is. And you know the thing the thing
Speaker 2: about organizing reform caucuses is that I know the people
Speaker 2: who organize these things like they're just random people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like anyone can do this.
Speaker 2: This is this is not something that requires like, you know,
Speaker 2: an incredibly specialized skill set.
Speaker 3: You can just do it.
Speaker 2: And as much like actual teenagers do this shit watching
Speaker 2: people and how tenaciously they could fight and watching them win.
Speaker 2: That that's how I get out of bed in the morning,
Speaker 2: is I have I have seen the hope in how
Speaker 2: how people can fight fights that are just unwinnable, that
Speaker 2: are so unfathomable that most people don't even think there's
Speaker 2: a point in fighting it, and then one day they win.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe one day well.
Speaker 5: Two, I mean, I mean yeah.
Speaker 4: And if you just think about the basis of the
Speaker 4: nfl PA, because now it's an anti trust blocker, right,
Speaker 4: that's what it is now. But the roots of it, yeah,
Speaker 4: there were guys trying to get rights for they're trying
Speaker 4: to get paid for the amount of time that they
Speaker 4: put into this job. One of the base like complaints
Speaker 4: is when the league was smaller and you had like
Speaker 4: kind of other leagues you know that are defunct now
Speaker 4: or were absorbed by the AFC or the NFC before
Speaker 4: it all merged the NFL. One of the basises was
Speaker 4: the NFL owners would ban you if you played in
Speaker 4: another league, Like if you spent any time playing another league,
Speaker 4: they would ban you for five years.
Speaker 5: Man, that's your whole career.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah.
Speaker 4: And I don't know if this made the show, if
Speaker 4: we're talking about before the show, but one of the
Speaker 4: things that got the nflp like organized in the fifties
Speaker 4: was guys, we're doing training camp in preseason games for free.
Speaker 4: They weren't getting paid for it, but these are just
Speaker 4: regular men who are just like, fuck it, I'm tired
Speaker 4: of this. Yeah, and sadly it has been co opted
Speaker 4: into something that does not represent what it was before.
Speaker 4: But you know, this stuff is started by regular as
Speaker 4: people who are saying, fuck it, I'm tired of this.
Speaker 5: We got to make a change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think on that note, where can people
Speaker 2: find your work?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can find me on Blue Sky four verts,
Speaker 4: you can find me on Yahoo Sports Football three oh
Speaker 4: one podcast.
Speaker 5: Trying to be found a little bit less these days.
Speaker 3: That's so reasonable.
Speaker 5: Find for the most part. Yeah, you know, it's a
Speaker 5: little less. I get there's a read.
Speaker 3: There's a reason I'm not putting by handling.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I will say this is not necessarily a
Speaker 4: friendly Blue Sky count I'm not one of those guys
Speaker 4: who's just gonna let you just pop off.
Speaker 5: We do clap back around.
Speaker 6: Here, right, We do, in fact, love to see Yeah.
Speaker 2: It could happen.
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