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Speaker 1: Hey, Alry, I've always wondered how did you learn to draw?

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Speaker 1: So well? Oh, well, thank you for saying that I

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Speaker 1: draw well. But I would attribute to practice. You know,

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time doodling on my notebooks

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Speaker 1: when I probably should have been paying attention in class. Well,

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Speaker 1: did you ever wish you could just like skip all

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Speaker 1: that practice, Like if the twenty year old me could

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Speaker 1: draw like the forty year old me. Yeah, like accelerate

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Speaker 1: your skills. Yeah, but then what would I have done

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Speaker 1: in class, like pay attention? Which class are we talking

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Speaker 1: about here? Well, A little embarrassed to say, but it

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Speaker 1: was mostly physics. Well then I'm glad one of us

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Speaker 1: was doodling and one of us was paying attention. Wait,

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Speaker 1: you were doodling too. I was paying attention to my

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Speaker 1: doodles him or handy cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I usually paid

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Speaker 1: attention in physics class. Paying attention? Now, do you pay

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Speaker 1: attention when you teach physics? That's what I want to know?

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Speaker 1: Or are you sort of an autopilot at this point? No?

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Speaker 1: In fact, when I lecture, I solve problems I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen before. I put fresh problems up on the board

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Speaker 1: and solve them on the spot, No kidding, what did

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Speaker 1: you can't do it? I think that's actually really valuable

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Speaker 1: for the students to see me get stuck and then

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Speaker 1: have to back up and go in another direction. And also,

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Speaker 1: after twenty years, I'm pretty much able to solve any

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Speaker 1: freshman level physics problem on the spot. Even how to

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Speaker 1: retrieve a homework from a dog's stomach or something like that.

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Speaker 1: That's an engineering problem. To buy you engineering, I guess.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge

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Speaker 1: Explain the Universe, a production of our Heart Radio where

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Speaker 1: we like to talk about everything in the universe and

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Speaker 1: we try to explain it all in about fifty minutes.

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Speaker 1: Everything is fair game to this podcast, from what's going

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Speaker 1: on in the inside of black holes to how many

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Speaker 1: dimensions there are of space and time to what is

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Speaker 1: the smallest, tiniest particle out there and how does it

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Speaker 1: all fit together to make this incredible, bonkers, glorious, delicious

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Speaker 1: and mysterious universe that we are sharing. Yeah, because we

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Speaker 1: are all in the same universe together and we're all

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Speaker 1: looking out into the stars, wondering what's it all made of,

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Speaker 1: what's going on up there? What is possible in this

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Speaker 1: crazy cosmos that we live in. At least we're assuming

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Speaker 1: that all of our listeners are in our universe. Maybe

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Speaker 1: this podcast leaks out somewhere into the multiverse. What wait,

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Speaker 1: you mean we might have listeners from a different universe.

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Speaker 1: I check the email adjust if everybody who writes to me,

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Speaker 1: but I can't actually trace it. It might come from

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Speaker 1: another part of the multiverse, like another part of the

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Speaker 1: Internet or the dark Web perhaps, or are you talking

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Speaker 1: about like the dark universe? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows?

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Speaker 1: What's possible? And that's the subject of this podcast, trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what's real and what's possible and can

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Speaker 1: it all be explained? Yeah, because we like to talk

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Speaker 1: about the real science that's out there and all of

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Speaker 1: the knowledge we've gotten about the universe and the great

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Speaker 1: work that scientists are doing. We also like to talk

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Speaker 1: about what's possible and what might happen in the future.

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Speaker 1: And I at least like to read science fiction, which

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Speaker 1: means I'm always getting my brain deep into some alternate

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Speaker 1: fictional universe and trying to figure out what are the

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Speaker 1: rules of that universe and could our universe actually have

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Speaker 1: those same rules. Yeah. I don't read a lot of

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Speaker 1: science fiction, but I do love listening to podcasts that

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Speaker 1: talk about science fiction, or hosting them for example, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or listening to them as they're being recorded. That's pretty

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Speaker 1: exciting too. Yeah. So sometimes we like to talk to

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Speaker 1: science fiction authors out there who are coming up with

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Speaker 1: the next great ideas that scientists might pursue in the future.

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Speaker 1: Because sometimes it's fun to solve the mystery of this universe,

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Speaker 1: but it's also fun to liberate your mind and let

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Speaker 1: it play around in other universes and think about what

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Speaker 1: the rules could be over there. And that's not just

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Speaker 1: playing around intellectually to dip into another pool and figure

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Speaker 1: out what it's like to swim over there. But sometimes

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Speaker 1: the ideas and science fiction really do leak into our

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Speaker 1: universe and help us reveal what's going on over here.

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Speaker 1: So I consider science fiction authors to be at the

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Speaker 1: extreme edge of theoretical particle physics. Yeah, because that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of what you do as a physicist, right, you

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Speaker 1: sort of sit around and thinking about what could be

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Speaker 1: what kinds of crazy explanations could help us understand what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing, the experiments and things like that, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the universe is literally stranger than fiction. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: to think up the explanations to understand why we're seeing

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Speaker 1: this weird stuff we see, we need a lot of creativity, so,

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Speaker 1: as usual, we borrow it from other places. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: today we're talking to a science fiction author who has

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Speaker 1: one book out. How many books out does she have?

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Speaker 1: This is her first book, but she is working on

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Speaker 1: the sequel, right, so to be on the program, we'll

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Speaker 1: be talking about science fiction universe of Essa Hanson. That's right,

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Speaker 1: as a. Hanson is the author of the book No

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Speaker 1: Feck Gloss, a super fun book that I just finished

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Speaker 1: reading and sa, like many of the folks were interviewing,

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Speaker 1: is a debut author. So congratulations to her on breaking

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Speaker 1: into this field. Oh that's great. How did you hear

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Speaker 1: about this book? How did I hear about this book? Man?

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Speaker 1: That is a hard question. Do you read every science

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Speaker 1: twitching book that comes out? No, don't be ridiculous. Only

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Speaker 1: of them, and I'll have time to read all of them.

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Speaker 1: You were served one for sleeping, for sleeping, good doodling,

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Speaker 1: doodling while you're reading it. May have been an Amazon suggestion,

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Speaker 1: or maybe a listener said it to me. I don't

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Speaker 1: even remember. But this is her debut novel, and she's

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Speaker 1: a pretty interesting author because she has another job which

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Speaker 1: is also pretty exciting sort of in the world of

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Speaker 1: science fiction as well. Yes, she is immersed in science

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Speaker 1: fiction because she is the sound designer for movies, and

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Speaker 1: she's working on lots of the Marvel movies like The Avengers. Wow.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel like a lot of people don't

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Speaker 1: appreciate sound design, but it's so important in movies, Like

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Speaker 1: it really makes the world come alive and then feel real. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I talked to her about it's super fun. She has

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Speaker 1: to decide, like what does it sound like when Iron

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Speaker 1: Man punches Captain America's shield? Or what does it sound

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Speaker 1: like when Loki punches Captain America. Like every single combination

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Speaker 1: has to sound different to sort of orally supplement the

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Speaker 1: story and give the viewer a sense of like what's

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Speaker 1: going on. There's a really rich sound texture that I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people aren't consciously aware of, but

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Speaker 1: it's really enhancing their experience. Right, we need a sound

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Speaker 1: designer for our podcast, and like, what does it sound

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Speaker 1: like when Jorge makes a bad pun in front of

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Speaker 1: thousands of people. That's the podcast. It's already rich in

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Speaker 1: awkward perhaps the sound of awkwardness. And she's a really

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Speaker 1: interesting person because she has synesthesia, which means that she

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Speaker 1: experiences sounds slightly differently from the way we do. She

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Speaker 1: told me that she's sort of feels their texture, like

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Speaker 1: as she's listening to some things, she can tell whether

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Speaker 1: it feels right. So for her, sound is more tactile,

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Speaker 1: I think than it is for most people. M M,

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Speaker 1: I see. Did you ask her what sound Robert Downey Jr.

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Speaker 1: Makes When he rolls his eyes or how often did

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Speaker 1: she have to kind of pace? I am grood for

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Speaker 1: the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. I did, but unfortunately

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Speaker 1: there's some ironclad n das there that prevented her from

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Speaker 1: spilling any details. Oh man, that's exciting. But she is

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Speaker 1: a debut science fiction novel author and her story is

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Speaker 1: is pretty cool. You really liked it. I really liked it.

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Speaker 1: I also found the writing to be really unusual and

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Speaker 1: very creative. The visuals in her book are really incredible.

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Speaker 1: They're like cinematic in a way that they create this

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Speaker 1: impression in your mind. You can really see this stuff happening.

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Speaker 1: It was really different from anything else I've read, and

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Speaker 1: I really thoroughly enjoyed it. I wonder if her SyncE

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Speaker 1: theseus sort of affects that. You know, that's when sort

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Speaker 1: of your different sensations kind of mixed together inside of

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Speaker 1: your brain, right, like you hear colors or you feel

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Speaker 1: textures and things and things like that exactly. So that's

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Speaker 1: sort of mixture of sensations. And so I think it's

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Speaker 1: different for every person. But it might be that, or

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Speaker 1: might just be that she's immersed in these movies and

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Speaker 1: so she has a very like visual sense of how

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Speaker 1: the action should play out. But while she describes in

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Speaker 1: her book a very alien and weird universe, I had

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Speaker 1: no trouble picturing it in my mind, and lots of

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Speaker 1: the action scenes were really incredible. I really felt like

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Speaker 1: I was watching a movie sort of in my own head.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, All right, Well let's get into what the

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Speaker 1: book is about, and then we'll talk about the kind

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Speaker 1: of the signs of it, which she said deals in

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Speaker 1: the multiverse, this idea that there are more than one

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Speaker 1: universe out there and maybe an infinite number of universes,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll hear an interview that you had with her. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun talking to her. All right,

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Speaker 1: I know. So what is the book No Fake Glass about.

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Speaker 1: So it takes place in a very different universe from

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Speaker 1: our own. It's not like one of these near future

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Speaker 1: almost Earth novels. This is a totally alien situation. But

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Speaker 1: they are humans. The main characters are humans. But it's

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Speaker 1: sort of been a very far future scenario where there

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Speaker 1: are civilizations all over the galaxy and on lots of

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Speaker 1: different planets, and the story follows the main character who's

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Speaker 1: born a slave, lives on a planet, helps sort of

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Speaker 1: tend these very dangerous, terrible creatures called the no Feck. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: so you don't know if it is the far future

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Speaker 1: or not. It's just sort of like this sort of

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Speaker 1: like Star Trek. Maybe it's the future, maybe it's an

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Speaker 1: alternate universe scenario, or maybe it's the deep past, right,

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Speaker 1: you never really know. But we follow a main character

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Speaker 1: who seems human and he raises these creatures, these no

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Speaker 1: fact and they produce these weird sort of blobs called gloss,

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Speaker 1: which like a pearl sort of you can hold in

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Speaker 1: your hands. This shimmery substance of great value. Now these

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Speaker 1: creatures that spelled n O p h e K no

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Speaker 1: fect And what are they like? Are they like the

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Speaker 1: worms and dune? Are they sort of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: cows or dogs or what do they look like? We

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Speaker 1: don't see them for very long because the first scene

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Speaker 1: essentially is the entire colony being slaughtered. But my mental

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Speaker 1: image of them is sort of like a cow sized

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Speaker 1: super spider with an incredible array of sort of slicy

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Speaker 1: teeth and little, you know, appendages coming out of its mouth.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, they're pretty horrible. Now, it's terrifying. I know.

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Speaker 1: He just gave me nightmares for the next couple of months.

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Speaker 1: Well you should read her description though she's a better

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Speaker 1: writer than I am, Like it makes it go down

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Speaker 1: easier or it's more terrifying. Yeah, exactly. It's a crisper image,

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Speaker 1: though I don't know either where you like it? Oh,

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Speaker 1: I see. So they're dangerous, but they produce something really valuable,

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Speaker 1: which is this gloss, and the slaves are the ones

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Speaker 1: taking care of them. But in the very first scene,

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Speaker 1: the entire colony is sort of liquidated by like a

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Speaker 1: spaceship or by death ray from the sky. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I don't want to reveal too much, but basically everybody

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Speaker 1: he knows is killed in front of him, and he

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Speaker 1: just barely apes and some band of explorers that happens

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Speaker 1: to be coming by scoops him up and whisks him away.

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Speaker 1: So he's like the only person from his planet to

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Speaker 1: survive this crazy calamity. And then he has to, I guess,

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Speaker 1: figure out what was going on and why his colony

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Speaker 1: was wiped out, and I imagine that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: sets off the plot. Yeah, and then he's on a

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Speaker 1: journey of discovery, both self discovery, like to figure out

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Speaker 1: who he is in this larger context, and also now

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Speaker 1: he's understanding this larger context he was living in but

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Speaker 1: was unaware of. So he meets all these crazy aliens

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Speaker 1: in this band of explorers, none of whom are human

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Speaker 1: of course, and have all sorts of really weird biology.

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Speaker 1: They also sort of take him around from planet a

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Speaker 1: planet and show him the structure of the multiverse that

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Speaker 1: he lived in without realizing it. Oh interesting, like everybody

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Speaker 1: knows they live in a multiverse except maybe him because

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Speaker 1: he was stuck into planet as a slave. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And so these aliens they look humanoid or so. The

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Speaker 1: aliens are a sort of human oid right. Mostly they

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Speaker 1: have like two arms, two legs, and a head, but

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Speaker 1: each of them has a weird characteristic. Some of them

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Speaker 1: can change shape. Some of them are literally gender fluid,

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Speaker 1: like they go back and forth between different genders. Other

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Speaker 1: ones have features of their skin that constantly reveal their

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Speaker 1: internal thoughts, like their internal emotions. Each one is really

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Speaker 1: very creative and really unusual, like stuff I hadn't imagined before,

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Speaker 1: but I could easily picture in my mind as she's

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Speaker 1: describing it. So it was super fun to meet all

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Speaker 1: these aliens and they all have like, you know, crazy

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Speaker 1: personalities and a backstory, and he's sort of thrown into

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Speaker 1: this cast of fun characters. Oh interesting, It's like he

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Speaker 1: was rescued by Serenity. The ship Serenity was something like

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Speaker 1: a rattack crew of explorers exactly, but none of them

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Speaker 1: are human. They're all sort of like near human. And

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Speaker 1: so he learns sort of the context of his universe,

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Speaker 1: meaning that he lives in the multiverse. How do they

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Speaker 1: know this? Everybody else seems to be aware that they

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Speaker 1: live in a sort of set of universes where each

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Speaker 1: universe is not an infinitely large thing. It's like a

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Speaker 1: huge bubble. And apparently they used to be just one

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Speaker 1: huge bubble, which was the single universe that existed, but

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Speaker 1: then other smaller universes started bubbling off of it. So

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Speaker 1: each multi versus like a bubble. Some of them are

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Speaker 1: really really huge and some of them are much smaller. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: all right, well, let's get into the signs of multiverses

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Speaker 1: a little bit later. But tell me what sort of

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Speaker 1: happens then? Then what's the overall plot of the book.

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Speaker 1: So he understands finally that he's been a slave, and

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Speaker 1: he figures out who was running the slave colony and

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Speaker 1: tries to understand why they decided to liquidate it essentially,

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Speaker 1: and he discovers this larger socio economic structure that fuels

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Speaker 1: the economic incentives for somebody to have, like a planet

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Speaker 1: of slaves, raising these no effects, producing these glosses. And

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Speaker 1: then he's on a crusade for justice. He wants to

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Speaker 1: take those folks down, he wants to expose them, and

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Speaker 1: he wants to get revenge. Interesting, he joins Antifa sort of,

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Speaker 1: he's like, let's take down the man he does or

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Speaker 1: alien I guess alien aliens. They're all aliens, and he's

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Speaker 1: sort of young. He's like, you know, in his very

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Speaker 1: early teens, so he's not really equipped to take this on.

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Speaker 1: So they take him to some nearby space station where

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Speaker 1: they have this really cool machine that can accelerate your body.

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Speaker 1: You can like grow you up by five years or

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Speaker 1: ten years, so you get bigger, stronger, and you accumulate skills. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: it's like a shortcut kind of. It's like a shortcut. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can get in this machine and come out and

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Speaker 1: you're five years older as if you've been training, and

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Speaker 1: now you have like martial arts skills and you know

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Speaker 1: how to fly a spaceship and all sorts of stuff,

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Speaker 1: sort of like in the matrix how you know, they

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Speaker 1: could just download skills into your mind, but it's a

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Speaker 1: bit more physical. Interesting, but you can choose when you

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Speaker 1: learn in that sort of accelerated time, like I want

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Speaker 1: to be a koon Fu master, or I want to

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Speaker 1: be a competent cartoonist, yeah, or I want to be

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Speaker 1: an online doodler or whatever. You can pay for what

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Speaker 1: you want, but it doesn't grow up your mind. You

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Speaker 1: don't like become more emotionally mature. So then this is

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Speaker 1: really interesting conflict within him where he seems older. He

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Speaker 1: now has the skills of an older person, but he's

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Speaker 1: still twelve years old at heart, and so it doesn't

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Speaker 1: make great decisions. I think you're assuming that if he

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Speaker 1: had grown up normally, he would have matured, which humans,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's always the case. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: still a twelve year old at heart, right, Well, that

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Speaker 1: explains a lot. Maybe somebody accelerated you. But it's really

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Speaker 1: fun because it helps you as the reader. You're also

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Speaker 1: getting introduced to this world, and he is getting introduced

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Speaker 1: to the world, so he's growing up rapidly and trying

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Speaker 1: to acclimatize into the world, and you're getting thrown into

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Speaker 1: it as a reader and trying to understand how this

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Speaker 1: world works. So it sort of makes you feel like

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Speaker 1: you're on this journey together a little bit. It makes

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Speaker 1: you feel like a twelve year old stuck in the

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Speaker 1: body over of a twenty year old. Al Right, well,

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Speaker 1: let's get into the science in the book, the multiverse,

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Speaker 1: accelerating your body and aliens, and then we'll get to

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Speaker 1: your interview with science fiction author is A. Hanson, author

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Speaker 1: of no fake clause. But first, let's take a quick break. Alright,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the science fiction universe of sa Hanson

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Speaker 1: and her debut novel, No Fact Glass. Now, Daniel, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the science in this book. And you said,

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Speaker 1: a big part of the plot is the multiverse. But

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Speaker 1: it's not sort of like the quantum multiverse that maybe

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Speaker 1: we've heard about. It's more like the bubble multiverse. It's

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Speaker 1: sort of like the bubble multiverse. And as you're referring to,

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Speaker 1: in current cosmology, we have several ideas for what we

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Speaker 1: mean by multiverse, all of which are totally different, and

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Speaker 1: all of which are totally different from the idea she

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Speaker 1: has in her book. So I think it's worth sort

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Speaker 1: of unpacking. Oh, I see, she has a whole new,

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Speaker 1: different idea for the multiverse. She does. She has an

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Speaker 1: idea for the multiverse which is not one that cosmologists

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Speaker 1: are currently imagining for our universe, though it's you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of related maybe to one of them. So the

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Speaker 1: simplest idea for the multiverse here in our universe is

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Speaker 1: the idea that we can't see everything in the universe.

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Speaker 1: There's a limit to like the observable universe. You can't

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Speaker 1: see everything just because the speed of light is limited,

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Speaker 1: and so it takes time for stuff to get here,

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Speaker 1: which means we can't interact or see or observe anything

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Speaker 1: past a certain distance. It's more than the age of

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Speaker 1: the universe times the speed of light, because the universe

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Speaker 1: is also expanding, but there's still this finite sphere around us,

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Speaker 1: something like nineties three billion light years across, that we

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Speaker 1: can interact with and can influence us. So the idea

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Speaker 1: of the multiverse is just that there are multiple observable

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Speaker 1: universes sort of like near each other, and if somebody

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Speaker 1: is really really far away, a trillion light years away,

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Speaker 1: they would have a different observable universe, And so the

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Speaker 1: multiverse is then that set of observable universes. Oh, I see. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's like we're all in the same space, but because

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Speaker 1: of the distances, you might as well consider them different

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Speaker 1: universes because we're so far away. Yeah, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like where I am in South Pasadena and you and

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Speaker 1: Orange County. We're both sort of in lay, but since

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Speaker 1: it takes three hours with traffic, we're basically in different universes.

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Speaker 1: And culturally it feels like another universe. You're all aliens.

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Speaker 1: I used to feel like an alien when I got

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Speaker 1: down here. Now it feels like home. You've been accelerated

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Speaker 1: into an assimilated. Now you're slaved. Then maybe I'm the master.

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Speaker 1: So that's the idea here of this multiverse is that

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Speaker 1: there are sort of like pockets of universes. That's one

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Speaker 1: idea of a multiverse. Another idea of the multiverse is

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Speaker 1: that we don't know how our universe started. We know

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Speaker 1: that it began with some really really rapid expansion of space,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know what caused that. What hypothesis is

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Speaker 1: that it was caused by the decay of some really

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Speaker 1: weird field we call an infloton field, which filled all

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Speaker 1: of space and sometimes randomly sort of decays into normal matter,

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Speaker 1: which creates a whole universe, and it's like a pocket universe.

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Speaker 1: And so then you can imagine that maybe somewhere else,

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Speaker 1: far away, in this infloton field, another pocket universe was made,

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Speaker 1: and this would be different from the first level multiverse

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Speaker 1: because these different multiverses might have different physical laws, like

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Speaker 1: they might follow the same fundamental rules. But it might

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Speaker 1: be that the Higgs field ended up at a slightly

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Speaker 1: different place in our universe and in the other universe,

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Speaker 1: which would make particles have different masses and have really

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Speaker 1: very different physics and chemistry and biology. Interesting, I see,

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Speaker 1: So we're all still in the same kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: continuum of this in ploton field, but like our space,

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Speaker 1: like what we call space, it's its own little bubble,

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Speaker 1: is its own little bubble, and there are different laws

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Speaker 1: of physics in that bubble and in our bubble. So

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Speaker 1: it might be like really impossible for us to even

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Speaker 1: imagine what it's like or to ever communicate because we

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Speaker 1: think that this infloton field is also expanding super duper rapidly,

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Speaker 1: faster than the speed of light, which would make it

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Speaker 1: literally impossible to ever send or receive a message to

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Speaker 1: any of these other multiverses in this in slaton field.

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Speaker 1: But like if two bubbles, you know, bumped into each other,

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Speaker 1: would they connect or there or is there some sort

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Speaker 1: of barrier in between? A great question. We think that

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Speaker 1: couldn't happen because the infloton field is constantly expanding, and

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Speaker 1: so it's creating new space, new infloton field space between

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Speaker 1: our universe and the other ones faster than our universe

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Speaker 1: could ever move through it. But there are some people

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Speaker 1: who think that maybe there are some scenarios in which

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Speaker 1: they bump into each other and then you get some clash,

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Speaker 1: you know, like space where the Higgs field is this,

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Speaker 1: another space with Higgs field is that, And now it

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Speaker 1: caused one of the two Higgs field to collapse to

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Speaker 1: the lower value. And there are some people who think

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Speaker 1: that maybe that could leave like an imprint on the

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Speaker 1: very early universe, and so they look for these sort

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Speaker 1: of imprints on the early universe by looking for the

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Speaker 1: cosmic microwave background. Nobody's ever seen anything like that, but

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Speaker 1: it's a fun thing to think about. I see, like

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Speaker 1: if you look at the cosmic microwave background and notice

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Speaker 1: like a big dent in it, it looks like we

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Speaker 1: had a little fender bender with another universe there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are these rings in the cosmic Mergaway background radiation

402
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Speaker 1: people look for. All right, So that's another idea for

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Speaker 1: the multiverse. What are some of the other ideas and

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Speaker 1: what's the idea in the book. Yeah, So the last

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Speaker 1: idea for the multiverse that people really do think about

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Speaker 1: in terms of current cosmology is the quantum multiverse that

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, and this is a way they sort of

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Speaker 1: understand why the way function and quantum mechanics, which describes

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Speaker 1: what might happen every time a quantum particle is doing something,

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Speaker 1: why it seems to pick one thing or another, Like

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Speaker 1: if an electron can go left and it can go right,

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Speaker 1: why does it seem to go right or why does

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Speaker 1: it seem to go left? And the way we answer

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Speaker 1: that question, or some people like Sean Carroll and other

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Speaker 1: ever endians who proposed this multi world's interpretation of quantum mechanics,

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Speaker 1: the way they answer it is they say that the

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Speaker 1: universe splits at every time a quantum particle can go

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Speaker 1: left or right, it goes left, and there's another version

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Speaker 1: of the universe created where it goes right. So it

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Speaker 1: tries to avoid answering the question of why does the

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Speaker 1: electron go left by saying it doesn't just go left,

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Speaker 1: it does everything possible. We just happened to be in

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Speaker 1: a left branch. And the consequences there are that the

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Speaker 1: universe is constantly branching. So you have like an infinite,

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Speaker 1: infinite infinite number of these versions of the universe, each

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Speaker 1: of which are different by one quantum particle's decision. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty mind blowing. And that's kind of like this

428
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 1: idea that maybe there's a version of the universe that's

429
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 1: just like ours, but a little bit different or a

430
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: lot different, you know, one where the dinosaurs didn't get

431
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 1: it by the asteroid, or one where JFK wasn't assassinated.

432
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: That's where this idea of like the multiple versions of

433
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: the universe comes from. Yeah, where you became a professor

434
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 1: of physics and I became a cartoon you know, crazy

435
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: things like that, and where that's right, the podcast will

436
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: be called John Daniel Explained the Universe. Yeah. And for

437
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: some people this isn't a metaphor, this isn't like a

438
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 1: hypothetical thought experiment. They believe that this is real, that

439
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 1: those universes actually exist and they are out there. I

440
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 1: personally find it ridiculous. I don't think it actually answers

441
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,719
Speaker 1: the question of the collapse of the way of function,

442
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 1: because we still have to answer like why are we

443
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 1: on this branch? You know. It tries to avoid answering

444
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: the question of why one branch feels special by saying

445
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: there are all these other branches, but one branch still

446
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 1: feels special because I'm in that branch and I'm not

447
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: in the other branches. Well, the other Daniel things he

448
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 1: is special, but also, yeah, well I didn't know that

449
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: the other Daniel exists, though I can't take his data

450
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: seriously anyway. Those are the ideas of the multiverse that

451
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 1: are sort of existent in current cosmology. Says, a multiverse

452
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: is quite different. She imagined, first of all, that the

453
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: multiverse started as a single bubble universe, and then new

454
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: universes were created like sort of nucleated off of it,

455
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: like at the edges of our universe, or like in

456
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: the middle of our universe is a bubble or what

457
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 1: does that mean both? She imagines these bubble universes created

458
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: at the edge, and so there's this transition between the universes.

459
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: She calls it the rind, like you know the peel

460
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: of an orange, where you go from one universe to

461
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: the other. But you can also have a new universe created,

462
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: like as a sub universe within your universe. This ragtag

463
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: group of explorers, for example, has a spaceship that's capable

464
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: of creating its own sub universe to wrap around itself,

465
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 1: and it can use that as a sort of like

466
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: method of propulsion and also protection. There's this awesome scene

467
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,239
Speaker 1: where it wraps itself in this new universe and then

468
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: it dives into the heart of a star and they

469
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: literally fly right through a star and it's sort of

470
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: like going underwater, but they're like understar. They're flying through it,

471
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: looking at the interior of a star. Super awesome. Wow.

472
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,239
Speaker 1: And so you can create universes too, like you can

473
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: some of manipulate this inflocon field and like create a

474
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: layer of universe between you and other stuff. As we're

475
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: all about it in the interview, you can hear it.

476
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: She doesn't go as deep as like understanding how you

477
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: could possibly influence the infloton field. She totally admits to

478
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: handwaving her way around that. But in her universe, yes,

479
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: you can create new universes, and new universes are being

480
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,719
Speaker 1: created all the time. And the cool thing is that

481
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,239
Speaker 1: you have different laws of physics in each of these

482
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: sort of bubble universes, and when you transition from one

483
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: to the other, things get like translated. It's sort of

484
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: like do you go to another country and suddenly become

485
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, like French Orge or something that is George. Cool.

486
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: That's pretty awesome. And so then I guess one cushion

487
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: is how do they get around so well in this universe?

488
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: Do they have like faster than light travel? They have

489
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 1: spaceships that can essentially propel themselves using these like relative

490
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: universe laws of physics. So you like wrap yourself in

491
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: this bubble and then you can move through this other

492
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: universe and sort of pop back out. Oh, I see,

493
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,239
Speaker 1: like you take shortcuts through other universes. Yeah, you can

494
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: take advantage of the fact that different universes have different laws.

495
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: So then that's the universe In her sci fi universe,

496
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: it's like a universe with little neighborhoods here and there.

497
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: And how does that affect I guess the you know,

498
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: cosmo politics of how people treat each other. Yeah, well

499
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: it means that there's a lot to explore because there

500
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: are a lot of different universes out there for people

501
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 1: to discover. And she's thought a lot about the economics

502
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: of this situation, like how would a huge, diverse, interplanetary,

503
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 1: multi species civilization actually work, Who would want to go

504
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 1: and explore, who would pay them to do that? And

505
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: she very specifically chosen to be sort of like a

506
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: little bit of an anarchy, you know, no tight central

507
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: government with a single set of laws, because she thought

508
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: that was going to be unrealistic. So there's this whole

509
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: collection of folks called cartographers that essentially incentivize exploration, pay

510
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,239
Speaker 1: people to bring back information about what's going on in

511
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: this other multiverse were more created, and this this whole

512
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: layer of mystery because they don't really fully understand the

513
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: physics of it. Some of the technology needed to create

514
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: and traverse these multiverses is left over from an ancient

515
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: now past civilization that seemed to have a better handle

516
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: on the physics than the current set of aliens. It's

517
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: sort of like magic to them. Kind of yeah, it's

518
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: sort of like magic, or at least it's like treasure.

519
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: When you find a little piece of this leftover technology

520
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: from that law civilization, they can do things you can't

521
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: understand and couldn't reproduce. And now, as a physicist, how

522
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: does this idea of the multiverse soundy? Does it sound plausible?

523
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: Does it fit within some of the theories that you have.

524
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: It's a little hard to imagine how it's plausible. I mean,

525
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: having different laws of physics in these bubbles, and then

526
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: the transitions between them. It's pretty hard to get your

527
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: mind around. You know. People wonder like, how could you

528
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: have different laws of physics in different places? And it

529
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: depends a little bit on the semantics. You know, we

530
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: talk about different laws of physics, we mean the rules

531
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: by which the things around us operate under. You know,

532
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: like what happens to an electron when it flies through

533
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: a magnetic field, or you know, how does the Higgs

534
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: boson decay? Those aren't actually what we think are the

535
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: most fundamental laws of physics. Those are the laws of

536
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: physics that we have here today, in our current temperature

537
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: and our current time. After the birth of the universe.

538
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: We don't know what the real fundamental laws of the

539
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: universe are. We're trying to figure that out, right. We

540
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: don't know how the universe works when it's hot and dead,

541
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: it's like in the original Big Bang. But we think

542
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: that what we're looking at is what we call an

543
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: effective theory, so as things cool down, they sort of

544
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: crystallize into the laws that we have now. But we

545
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: think it might have gone differently. We think that like

546
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: some random fluctuations in the early universe might have led

547
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: the same fundamental laws of physics to turn into different

548
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: effective laws of physics we have today. So it's possible

549
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: to imagine different parts of space or different parts of

550
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: the multiverse having different effective laws of physics, But it

551
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: seems like the fundamental rules really have to be the same,

552
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: because in the end, the source code for the universe

553
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: has to just be one thing. It can't like change

554
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: from here to there. Right, Well, it could have the

555
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: same source code, but as you said, it could have

556
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: maybe like different initial conditions, right Like maybe you know,

557
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: you could have a black hole with a universe in

558
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: the side of it, and somehow, you know, the value

559
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: of the mass of the electron is a little bit

560
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: different inside of it. Yeah, that's totally possible, And then

561
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: you have to worry about these transitions, Like at the transitions,

562
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: what happens. You know, we know that if the the

563
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: Higgs field is different in one place and another, that

564
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: it will cause the place with the higher field value

565
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: to collapse to the lower field value, and so that

566
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: kind of thing will spread, Like if you had created

567
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: a machine which collapsed the Higgs field value locally to zero,

568
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,239
Speaker 1: that would spread throughout the universe and basically change the

569
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: universe's effective laws of physics. To something else, and so,

570
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, not recommended, although it sounds that you consider

571
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: it sounds like you thought about what happens. I keep

572
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: an open mind, you know, yeah, exactly, try not to

573
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: just reject things out of hand. And I think about

574
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: it's sort of like analogous to phases. Imagine that the

575
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: universe was like a huge pool of water and some

576
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: parts of it had gotten cold and some parts of

577
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: it had gotten hot. Then aliens or humans who had

578
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: evolved under those circumstances would imagine that those were the

579
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: fundamental constraints of the universe and would understand the way

580
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: things work in that phase or in this phase, and

581
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't understand like the fundamental over all rules. So we

582
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: just think that we're sort of stuck in one phase

583
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: of the universe this temperature or this pressure, this age,

584
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: and we've learned the rules of this universe. But you

585
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: could have different you know, phases of space in other

586
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: parts of the universe and still follow the same fundamental rules.

587
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: But what would happen to the transitions. That would be

588
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: pretty tricky. I mean, sometimes transitions are stable, right. You

589
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: can have like a frozen lake and it doesn't all

590
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: sublimate into the air. Depends a little bit on the details,

591
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: but sometimes you have transitions that are unstable, where things

592
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: do sublimate and there's attention there because of the conflict

593
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: and that that can't survive. So he asked, like, what's

594
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: wrong with the universe. You could just say, Hey, it's

595
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: just going through a phase. Don't worry. It'll go through

596
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: puberty soon and then things will get really crazy unless

597
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: it just accelerates its way through puberty. Right there you go.

598
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: I feel like that happened to my son a little

599
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: bit because he spent all of his middle school in

600
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: the pandemic, so he just sort of like skipped middle school,

601
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: which is either like wonderful because middle school wasn't my

602
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: favorite time of universe or terrible because you had to

603
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: spend a year and a half inside. But you know,

604
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: there's two ways to look at accelerating pastive life events, right, Yeah,

605
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: middle school is its own pocket universe of formal terture

606
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: for everyone. Really. All right, well, let's get into your

607
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: interview with science fiction author Sa Hanson, author of the

608
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: book No Fat Claws. I think you asked her about

609
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: this idea of the multiverse. Where she got that idea

610
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: this idea for aliens being interesting, and this idea of

611
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: accelerating your growth and your cognitive development. So she had

612
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: answers for all of these questions, right, Daniel, she did,

613
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: Indeed she did. Indeed, I'm always amazing grateful when an

614
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: author is willing to talk to a busist about how

615
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: they built their universe. Right, that must be a little terrifying,

616
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: like running into a no effect book. Perhaps I try

617
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: to be friendly. Yeah, you could try pulling all your

618
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: mindibles and spider like appendages before you shred her science

619
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: to bits. It's like that scene when the monster smiles.

620
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: All right. Here is Daniel's interview with sign switching author

621
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: as a handsOn. So it's my great pleasure to welcome

622
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: to the podcasts A Hanson, the author of the book

623
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,479
Speaker 1: No Fact Loss Asa. Thanks very much for joining us.

624
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: Thanks for inviting me on the show. Wonderful. Well, before

625
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: we dig into your book, we'd love to hear a

626
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: little bit about your background. How you ended up being

627
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: a science fiction author. Yeah, I've been reading and writing

628
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: since I can remember, which is a really boring origin story.

629
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: But there there wasn't really one experience or piece of

630
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: media that kicked me into it. You know. I grew

631
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: up with a lot of the popular sci fi shows

632
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: and movies from the eighties and nineties like Star Trek,

633
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: Star Wars, Stargate when so many seemed to have Star

634
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: in the name. I also devoured nature shows like National

635
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: Geographic and spend most of my time outdoors exploring nature

636
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: since I've lived in or very close to backcountry areas

637
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: in national parks in the Western US and Canada. So

638
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: combined with studying science, math, acts, and philosophy for pleasure,

639
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: everything started to kind of come together in writing science

640
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: fiction and fantasy, which is such a great playground for

641
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: an overactive imagination concepts and explore fun what if questions.

642
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: And you use your imagination a lot in your other job,

643
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: don't you. I do. I'm a sound designer for science

644
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: fiction and fantasy films from like Marvel and Disney and Pixar,

645
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: so I definitely spend a lot of time in other

646
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: worlds wonderful. Well. We have a series of questions we

647
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: ask all of our science fiction author gifts so we

648
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: can compare and contrast them. The first one is about

649
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: Star Trek transporters. Is it your opinion that these devices

650
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: kill you and recreate you somewhere else, or that they

651
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: actually transport you from one place to another. I love

652
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: this question because to me, it's asking about the nature

653
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: of consciousness, Like, are we assuming that consciousness is an

654
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: emergent phenomenon from the structure of the physical system, and

655
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: that recreating it exactly from the quantum level up in

656
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 1: some new location will generate that same consciousness with out interruption.

657
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: I personally think there's something more fundamental going on with

658
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: conscious beings, so I'm more likely to believe that the

659
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: atoms are transported instead and the consciousness gets transported with it.

660
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: As a unified system. You think that an exact copy

661
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: of you wouldn't be you. Yeah, I would actually love

662
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: to see an episode where they explore, you know, they're

663
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: early testing and theories of the transporters. What working didn't work?

664
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: You know, does the clone appear but it's not the

665
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: same person, or you know, doesn't have any brain inflection.

666
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: Star Trek Research Division. I definitely want to see that

667
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: whole episode. So then it sounds like you would be

668
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: willing to get into a Star Trek transporter because you

669
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: think that they actually somehow move your same atoms from

670
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: one place to another. Yeah, I think so. Well, if

671
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: something went wrong, would my consciousness be stranded in some

672
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: other dimensions? It's another question. So then, what technology in

673
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: science fiction would you most like to see become reality

674
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: in our universe? What would you like scientists to make real.

675
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: That's tough, since there's so many mind blowing pieces of

676
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: technology that could just change our understanding of the universe.

677
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: But actually my mind goes right away to the really

678
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: practical things, since they could change so many aspects of

679
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: life and the environment. So I would probably pick a

680
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: replicator from Star Trek, you know, to be able to

681
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: synthesize food and drinking objects without needing the material to

682
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: print them. And I think it recycles too, doesn't it. Yeah,

683
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: environmentally be fantastic. It would change a lot of our infrastructure.

684
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: All right, Well, then let me pivot and ask you

685
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: about aliens. I'm sure you're familiar with the Fermi paradox.

686
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: Why haven't we been visited yet? If the universe is

687
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: so filled with wonderful planets? What's your personal thought on

688
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: that question? Why do you think we haven't yet been

689
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: visited by aliens? I like the theory that intelligent life

690
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: will or may have interacted with Earth's life forms in

691
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: ways we cannot detect. Most people's default thinking when they

692
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: hear aliens is, you know, intelligent biological life that's using

693
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: spacecraft comparable to something humans might do with more advanced technology.

694
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: I think it may be more likely that conscious beings

695
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: exist in domain means are on a scale that we

696
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: still struggle to measure or perceive with our current technology

697
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: and science. So I feel like a non physical alternative

698
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: is feasible, which means perhaps they have visited us or

699
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: are constantly in communication range waiting for us to catch up.

700
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: So you're imagining that consciousness and intelligence might be broader

701
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: than our particular imaginations have considered. That it could be

702
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: just something we can't even imagine or understand or interact with. Yeah, Like,

703
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: I think a lot about how limited the you know,

704
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: humans in two organs actually are compared to other animals,

705
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: and compared to the instruments that we've created to measure,

706
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: like the quantum world and things that we can't actually perceive,

707
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: even ranges of light that are outside of our natural spectrum.

708
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's too much of a stretch

709
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: to think that there may even be more beyond that

710
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: that we do not have instruments for yet. No, I'm

711
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: with you. I'm a big believer in the idea that

712
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: we've only begun to explore the universe, that we're seeing

713
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,439
Speaker 1: a narrow and probably unrepresentative slice of what's out there.

714
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: And we know from history that the discoveries revealed the

715
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: universe to be a very different place from the way

716
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: we imagined it. It would be shocking if intelligence was

717
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: exactly the way we expected it to be, which is

718
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: why I love reading creative science fiction and seeing people

719
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: explore these ideas and other concepts. But it's hard. Yeah, Like,

720
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: if you compare what we understand now he explain that

721
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: to someone as historical scientists, they might think just sounds

722
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: too bonkers. I would totally believe that there's things in

723
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: the future that will understand that now just seem inconceivable. Well,

724
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: it seems bonkers to me today, and so I'm getting

725
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: forward to future bonkers discoveries. That's the whole motivating premise

726
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: of my research. All right, But let's talk about your book,

727
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: which is super fun and congratulations on it, Thank you.

728
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: I really like the questions that your book raised, you know,

729
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: about like how a young person navigates through life and

730
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: grows up, how he finds his place in the world,

731
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: how he finds his justice, And you know, the world

732
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: that he grows up in, the universe that he grows

733
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: up into, the multiverse that he grows up and seems

734
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: to be very different from our own. But the themes,

735
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, are familiar. You know, these questions of how

736
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: you find your place? What drew you to these questions,

737
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: these themes, what made you want them to be sort

738
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: of at the heart of the journey of your character. Yeah,

739
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: so science fiction is so fun because you know, we're

740
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: taking a human angle on it and often telling very

741
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: human stories. But you know, something else is very inhuman,

742
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: whether it's the setting or the aliens or worlds are

743
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: interacting with. And I tend to write about outcasts like me,

744
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: protagonists who feel uprooted and struggle with belonging in identity,

745
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: people that don't have a culture, community, who are too

746
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: mixed to have roots or were cut off from them

747
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: by loss, and people who think are perceived a typically

748
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: who might feel like they're on the wrong planet, being

749
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: outcast or and more to such a relatable struggle for

750
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: so many different sectionalities. Of people. It's a story that

751
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: I feel can be told a lot in different ways,

752
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: and there will always be something to take from it.

753
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: You know, no matter how wild the sci fi setting,

754
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: our situation is, it always sort of that human heart

755
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: to it that readers find relatable. I think it's really

756
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: interesting to see what's a common what's human in these stories,

757
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: you know, what we can identify with, and it tells

758
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: me something about what you think is sort of going

759
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: to be constant in the human experience even if the

760
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: world is very different, and you have built a very

761
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: very different world from the one that we experience, but

762
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: there are also like a lot of similarities, and I'm

763
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 1: wondering if you built those in to be the same

764
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: as the world we experience, because you think that they're

765
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: going to be persistent. For example, in your book, there's

766
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: a lot of economic disparity and a lot of political maneuvering.

767
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 1: You know, other novels like Ian Banks culture novels, there's

768
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: no more scarcity and everybody has exactly what they want.

769
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: Do you think that these sort of like economic power

770
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: struggles will always be with us? Are there always going

771
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,439
Speaker 1: to be the super rich and the poor? I think

772
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: creatively I'm not so much assuming that, um, you know,

773
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: these worlds will be just like what we understand from

774
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: our human perspective, but more that if I'm gonna present

775
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 1: the reader with a bunch of feelings through wild ideas,

776
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: I do need some things that are familiar and relatable

777
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: so that they feel grounded. You know, if you make

778
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: absolutely everything in the world new and weird, the reader

779
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: will just feel unsteady. And in the case of my multiverse,

780
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: I feel the sheer volume of planets, species, cultures, and

781
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: resources is too unwieldy to have a perfectly peaceful and

782
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: balanced multiverse will society. You know, everything is going to

783
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: have a different material and moral value depending on a perspective.

784
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: So with trillions of unique planets, all with their own

785
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: variety of cultures and governments, it didn't seem feasible that

786
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: one set of needs, laws or rights could apply equally

787
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: to every potential species and belief system. So, you know,

788
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: the nature of a complex, diverse, and poorly interconnected multiverse

789
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: will be an ecosystem that involves power struggles and mismatch

790
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: value systems. I think my nature, so there's always going

791
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: to be struggle, even in the future. That's what you're

792
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: telling me. There's no federation or like unifying organization in

793
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: this multiverse besides the Cartographers, which is a neutral group

794
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: that maintains a database of knowledge and unifies much of

795
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: the multiverse with a goal of exploration and of safety

796
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: through shared knowledge. But they also provide free basic needs

797
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: to anyone without discrimination, the food, shelter, education, health care,

798
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: and so on, which I think is far more useful

799
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: than a space police or multiverse laws trying trying to

800
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: mesh together so many civilizations, you know, right, right, But

801
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: then you also have populations that are like raised in

802
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: slavery and then mistreated basically for economic gain. And it's

803
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: not explored in this first book, but the central and

804
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: largest universe unity is a utopian world, more along the

805
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: lines of Banks culture novels, and so a later theme

806
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: in the trilogy will be the pros and cons of

807
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: a utopian world where potential has been limited for safety

808
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: versus this chaotic multiplicity of worlds with a lot of

809
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: variety of experience, but with the overarching sort of pirate

810
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: culture where everyone takes response ability for themselves. Right. Well,

811
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: I'm excited to hear that there are more books coming

812
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: in the same universe. Can't wait to dig into those.

813
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: One thing I really liked about your book is that

814
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: I had a concept I hadn't seen in other science

815
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: fiction novels, which is always exciting for me. And those

816
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 1: are these bubbled multiverses where they have this like distinct

817
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: transition between one universe and another that you call them rhymes.

818
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about the nature

819
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: of the idea here, What was going on in your

820
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: mind why you decided to build these into your story. Yeah,

821
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: so the bubble multiverse concept was what kicked off this

822
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: whole story, and I don't think I've read it or

823
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: seen anything exactly like it in sci fi before. Most

824
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: multiverses involved a shift in dimension or time, whereas my

825
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: multiverse is a bunch of spherical universes like soap bubbles,

826
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: all on the same timeline, each with unique physical laws inside,

827
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: and all stuck together like a huge film cluster. And

828
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: they can range in sizes be so smallly fit in

829
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: the palm your hand, where they can contain entire galaxies,

830
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: with some universes nested inside other ones. And said, the

831
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: walls meet in energetic membranes called Ryan's that are in

832
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: a physical barrier, but whatever passes through is translated from

833
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: one set of loss to another and maybe almost unchanged

834
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: or might be destroyed or transformed in the process. I

835
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: got the idea initially while looking at macro photography of

836
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: bubbles and mentally extrapolating that out to massive scale, you know,

837
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: containing galaxies, the sort of world you could fly a

838
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: star shipped through. And the fact that physics itself might

839
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: be different from one universe to another has a lot

840
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: of fun implications to think about, like what it might

841
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: mean for trade and economy. An element that it's inaccessible

842
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: in one universe might become usable or malleable in another.

843
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: All right, so this is a lot of fun and

844
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: I got lots more questions for ASA. But first, un

845
00:43:44,480 --> 00:44:00,240
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. All right, we're back in

846
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: interview with science fiction author As A handsOn, author of

847
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: the debut novel no fack Gloss. I was really interested

848
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: in exploring an economy that operates on information is currency,

849
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, where exploration is incentivized and maps and knowledge

850
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: hold the most value. In order to be able to

851
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: explore more world, do you need a ship with technology

852
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: that's able to withstand different ryns, meaning you can make

853
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: more profit, to photo ship that can go even more

854
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: places to be more profit, and so on. You know,

855
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: exploration and curiosity is such a stable motivator, and science

856
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: fiction from a human perspective, like star treks to bully

857
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,919
Speaker 1: go where no one has gone before. So I think

858
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: this the whole multiverse allows for that, but with some

859
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: new elements, while also feeling different from so much science

860
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: fiction that focuses on war between factions and planets. Well,

861
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: you've basically written the first paper on multiverse economics. That's

862
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: pretty awesome. It's really cool, and it's really interesting to visualize.

863
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: In my mind, I was definitely sort of imagining a

864
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,919
Speaker 1: series of soap bubbles. But one question I had, which

865
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: it probably doesn't have an answer, is you you have

866
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: all these bubbles and they're connected to each other. Are

867
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: they all sitting in some larger sort of super space

868
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: in which they're embedded? Is there anything outside of these universes?

869
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 1: Does that not have any meaning? And I thought about

870
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: this because you know, if you think about an outer

871
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: edge and what's beyond that outer edge, and I know

872
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: a lot of similar theories have actual content if it's

873
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: a bubble universe to have the content of the universe

874
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: on the surface area of it, whereas mine the content

875
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: is all inside. And my idea is sort of more

876
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: like the rind contains sort of holographically stores the information

877
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: of all the content. But as for the edge, I

878
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,439
Speaker 1: haven't thought deeply about what is beyond it, because that's

879
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: the well that's really chewy the lure. The lure is

880
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: that there's originally one singular universe with stable physical laws

881
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: like our own, inhabited by, among others, an advanced civilization

882
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: called the Graven, and an unknown event caused daughter universe

883
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: is to start to bubble off of the outer border

884
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: of this one universe, inflating and continuing to bubble off

885
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: new universe as at the outer edges, the entire mask

886
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: Etine's expanding. Very cool. I love the idea that there

887
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 1: are different physical laws inside each universe and the concept

888
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: of how you translate an object from one to the

889
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: other is super cool. So is it explored in the book,

890
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: like how these new universes are created? Because I know this,

891
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: For example, one particular ship that's capable of creating its

892
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 1: own universe as it flies. Yeah, the protagonist Cadent ship

893
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: has weird craven technology in it, with the power to

894
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 1: expand and collapse a brand new universe of its own

895
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: out of nothing, which allows it to travel on harm

896
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: in places and situations it would be too destructive otherwise,

897
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 1: and the next books in the trilogy will explore more

898
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: of what that technology actually is and what the formation

899
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: of the multi Verse could have been and why it happened. Well,

900
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: I think one of the real strengths of your novel

901
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: are the incredible visuals. You know, it seems to me

902
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: like maybe not a surprise that you've worked on a

903
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: lot of movies, because I felt like I could I

904
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: was almost watching a movie in my mind with these

905
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: incredible visual descriptions, and one of them was when this

906
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: ship dies into the heart of a star, protected by

907
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: its own little universe, just imagining like what it's like

908
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: to fly through the heart of the star. Really fantastic stuff. Yeah,

909
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: and that's what I love to like trying to describe

910
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: the impossible in a way, like we know a lot

911
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: about the insides of stars, but you know, we can't

912
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: actually go in and experience it. So I love, you know,

913
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: kind of researching what's involved in like a situation like that,

914
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: and then how am I going to try to convey

915
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: what the experience might be like if it were safe to,

916
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: you know, fly, Well, I wish it were. I'd love

917
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: to take that trip, but I feel like I already

918
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: have a little bit in your book. Another thing that

919
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: was really richly imagined were all the aliens. There's so

920
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: many really interesting creatures with weird behaviors and capabilities that

921
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: I've never heard of before, But one thing they seem

922
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: to have in common is that most of them were

923
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: a humanoid. In your book, do they have like a

924
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 1: single origin where they've all branched off evolutionarily or they

925
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: evolved in parallel or is that not something you worried

926
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: about too much in detail? I actually love non humanoid

927
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: aliens the most, but this is one of those one

928
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 1: of those things where I knew I needed to balance

929
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: the story with familiarity and grounding for the reader, especially

930
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: since there's not just one first contact with one species,

931
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,919
Speaker 1: but so many different species of aliens, along with other

932
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: concepts and technology to wrap our hand around, and flying

933
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: into stars and creating universes and whatnotum I figured some

934
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: humanoid aliens would help the reader connects to look better.

935
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: So the actual humans in the story, of which there

936
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: is a broad variety, had a single origin in the

937
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: central universe. And for the other aliens, I did struggle with,

938
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: you know, whether to assume there's something fundamentally superior about

939
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 1: the general design of the human body. I'm not convinced

940
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: there is. Plus, the evolution of that design is inextricable

941
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: from the features of Earth. So if we assume humanoid

942
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 1: aliens evolving on other planets were assuming some earthlike features

943
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: of those planets, right, which is definitely true and feasible

944
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: in this multiverse. So I think the answer is a

945
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: mixed humans have a single origin and would have colonized

946
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: outward and differentiated as a multiverse inflated. But there are

947
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: also earthlike planets where humanoid design or similar will have

948
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: evolved on its own. Wow, A right cool. So tell me,

949
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 1: did you come up with this world first, this idea

950
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,280
Speaker 1: that multiverses and these aliens and then sort of find

951
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: a story to tell that takes us through that world,

952
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: or do you want to tell this story about this

953
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: young man and his journey through life and the search

954
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: for justice, and then you build a world around that story.

955
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: The world definitely came first, but the main character in

956
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: his ship came closely after, and they developed in parallel

957
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: from there. And at that time I did a lot

958
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: of my world building as I was drafting, rather than

959
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: developing all the features of the world up front and

960
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: then riding within that framework. So like I would find

961
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: I needed a technology or a new species and would

962
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: pause to create it on the fly and fitted logically

963
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: in the world, which I think the author creates a

964
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: greater sense of wonder from discovering things on the go

965
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: like this, because you know, the act of discovering excitement

966
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,399
Speaker 1: gets put right on the page, but you're way more

967
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 1: likely to having consistencies and elements that don't quite hold together.

968
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 1: Hopefully there's time during edits to shore that stuff up,

969
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: but a spontaneous story will definitely have a different feel

970
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: to it, I think than a book that was developed

971
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: over many years. Well, I'm a pretty close reader, and

972
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: I didn't find any big logical clause, So congrats to

973
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 1: you and your I'm careful, I think to hand away

974
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: of when I need to instead of not mention something

975
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: that might be a stitch to pull up. Yeah, so

976
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: how important to you then in your sort of final

977
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: story in Final Universe that the science is plausible. Are

978
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: you imagining that this is something that could happen in

979
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: our universe, or are you creating another universe with its

980
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: own laws and then trying to follow those strictly, or

981
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: you just sort of like navigating your way through the

982
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: story and making it up as you go. For this trilogy,

983
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 1: I'm definitely focused more on creative ideas and interesting implications

984
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: than on presenting a world that's plausible compared to our

985
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: own universe or current scientific understanding. There's already so much

986
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: well done plausible science fiction and hard sci fi, but

987
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot less blue sky thinking

988
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 1: science fiction that plays with things like massive cosmological scale,

989
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 1: or the implications of quantum mechanics on reality, or metaphysics

990
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 1: in the nature of consciousness as it relates the fabric

991
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 1: of spacetime. Not all those ideas are in this particular book,

992
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 1: but those are the areas of science that I love

993
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: thinking about, you know, the science that is still theoretical

994
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: or cutting edge, where all the creative thinking is happening

995
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 1: to try and solve the problems and unknowns we still face.

996
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: But one thing that was really fun. You know, I

997
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: didn't research the bubble multiverse kind of idea because I

998
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: thought it was so unplausible that there probably wasn't you know,

999
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: real physics that would describe this. But then afterwards I

1000
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: stumbled on I think the World Science Festival videos were

1001
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: all online, and I went into a rabbit hole of

1002
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: black hole research and the information paradox and all these

1003
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: different multiverse theories and you know, holographic principle and inflationary

1004
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: multiverse theory, and I was like, oh, my gosh, this

1005
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: actually does sound maybe plausible that we could be in

1006
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: a bubble multiverse. And you know, the edge of our

1007
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: one universe is so far away that will never prove

1008
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: or disproved because we can't measure out there. Maybe it's

1009
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: more plausible than I thought when I came up. We

1010
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: will see in the future. Yeah, And I actually think

1011
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: that science fiction plays an important role in the development

1012
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: of those theories because a big part of the development

1013
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: of the theories is just having the idea of what

1014
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: to consider what could be real about our universe. And

1015
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 1: since we know that the universe is probably very different

1016
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: from the one we imagined, we have to stretch our

1017
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: creative minds and consider these other alternatives, and reading science

1018
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: fiction is a critical element of that. So I think,

1019
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's more than just you're exploring this universe

1020
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: you or I think you're helping push forward the ideas

1021
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: that scientists themselves should be thinking about. Yeah. Absolutely, and

1022
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: that's and of what I love. Like there's you know,

1023
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: it's fun to play with the science we already have,

1024
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: but you know, we may not learn new things because

1025
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 1: we're only working within the constraints of what we know now,

1026
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: Whereas you know, stretching imagination and creativity is think what

1027
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 1: about this, what about this? Or you know, picking all

1028
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: often you know, here a theory and it will inspire

1029
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: me to like, oh, what if that means this? Or

1030
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,439
Speaker 1: like what if you know we expand that a bit.

1031
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: I think that kind of thinking is really inspiring for

1032
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: not just the reader. But you know, I don't know,

1033
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: I like to think that it can go beyond the

1034
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: book what we understand right now. Absolutely, it's fascinating to

1035
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: me to see how you walk the line though of

1036
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: like letting your imagination unspool into crazy other ideas of universes,

1037
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: but then still grounding in a way that we can

1038
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,240
Speaker 1: identify with some of the characters, and we can follow

1039
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: the story. Because as much as I'd like to believe

1040
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 1: that there are crazy aliens out there following rules we

1041
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: can't even imagine and weird societies, I probably have a

1042
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: hard time following that book. Yeah, it's a tough balance.

1043
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: Although actually I'm not sure. We just will kind of

1044
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: know what concepts are ones that I've pulled from actual

1045
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: science and which ones I just came up with out

1046
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: of the theoretical science. Right now is so exciting that

1047
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: you know the two are kind of the same, the

1048
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: bonker's ideas and the actual possibly plausible. Welcome to our

1049
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: bonkers reality exactly. I love it all right. Well, thanks

1050
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: very much for channing with us about your book, and again, congratulations.

1051
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: We look forward to reading the next novels. When are

1052
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: they coming out? Thank you. The sequel As Our Ghost

1053
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 1: is out December seven of this year. Does that mean

1054
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: that it's all written and in the hands of the

1055
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: publisher and the editors. It's very close. We're putting on

1056
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: the final polish and I'm already starting on book three. Wonderful. Well,

1057
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: we look forward to that and maybe we can have

1058
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: you back on to talk about the crazy bonkers ideas

1059
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: in the next book that you're right, there will be

1060
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: some more dimensions than a lot of bonkers ideas. Wonderful. Well,

1061
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 1: thanks again for joining us. Thanks, this is so much fun,

1062
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,240
Speaker 1: all right? Pretty cool. She sounds for really amazing and

1063
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: so multi talented, being a sound designer for big movies

1064
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: and also a science fiction author. Yeah, she's super creative.

1065
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: One thing I really loved about her book that I

1066
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: forgot to ask her about was how every scene in

1067
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 1: her book, which is like really diverse locations, really feels different.

1068
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 1: She's done this great job of like giving each location

1069
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: its own texture, its own sort of like feeling, so

1070
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: you can keep track of where you are in the book.

1071
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm not a sinis fit in any sense, but I

1072
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: feel like I was there, Like I could touch these

1073
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: places and hear what they sounded like. Interesting. Now, just

1074
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,439
Speaker 1: reading her book make you excited to kind of meet

1075
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 1: other aliens and discover more of other universes perhaps, or

1076
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: does it make you happy to just have a couch

1077
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: at the end of the day in Orange County. Well,

1078
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: I think it's a positive experience, mostly because when you

1079
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: meet aliens, they're like a fun rag tag bunt to

1080
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 1: educate him about the universe. And boy, I would love

1081
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 1: for that to happen to me. A bunch aliens come

1082
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 1: down to Earth and tell me all about the larger

1083
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: context of our lives, how things actually work. It'd be

1084
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: great if that didn't mean that everybody else on Earth

1085
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: had to die. But you know, don't make me make

1086
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: that choice, You're like, that would be great, But if

1087
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 1: it had to happen in order for me to gain

1088
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: knowledge about the universe, you know, too bad. If it

1089
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 1: has to happen, it has to happen, right, Wait, no,

1090
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: not necessarily. According to the quantum multiverse that she's one possibility, Daniel.

1091
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: There you go. So I don't have to feel bad

1092
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 1: because in another multiverse, the Earth survives. In an infinite

1093
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: number of universes, we all die, and in an infinite

1094
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: number of universe we all survive, so it all washes

1095
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: out in the end. So therefore there is no morality,

1096
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 1: all right, Well, thank you to author sa Hansen again.

1097
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: Her novel is called No Fag Class. That's n O

1098
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: P h e K Class and it's out now. You

1099
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 1: can get it wherever you get your regular books. You can.

1100
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: And she's just turned in the sequel and working on

1101
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: the next book. So everybody out there who enjoys this

1102
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: book and look forward to even more zipping around the

1103
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: multiverse a right, Thanks for joining us, see you next time.

1104
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge explain

1105
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of I Heart Radio. For

1106
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,479
Speaker 1: more podcast for my heart Radio, visit the I Heart

1107
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: Radio Apple Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1108
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: favorite shows.