Speaker 1: Episode three point fifty eight, Our Experiences with healthcare Sharing.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and liver your life. Here your hosts,
Speaker 2: Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jel, and we are rounding out November
Speaker 1: better late than Never with our annual health insurance adjacent episode.
Speaker 1: Uh and this one is not about insurance. It's about
Speaker 1: healthcare sharing because Jill and I both use healthcare sharing
Speaker 1: as we are self employed, employed by ourselves, and our
Speaker 1: bosses refuse to get a company a health insurance plan.
Speaker 1: It's us we refuse. So we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: our experiences. We've actually used them. We don't just pay
Speaker 1: for them and not use them. We have used them.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna look at some articles talk about our
Speaker 1: experience and see if maybe it's something you might be
Speaker 1: interested in using.
Speaker 3: But first, this episode is brought to you by the
Speaker 3: nice kid at Recess. They always noticed that you weren't
Speaker 3: picked for any of the games, like literally zero.
Speaker 1: This seems personal.
Speaker 3: They waited for you to tie your shoe and walked
Speaker 3: with you to the nurse's office after you got hit
Speaker 3: with every single ball on the playground straight to the face,
Speaker 3: one after the other. And they knew that sharing was caring.
Speaker 3: And today we are being the nice kid at recess,
Speaker 3: not just by sharing, but by giving away one thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: You heard that right. We're giving one lucky Frugal Friends
Speaker 3: listener one thousand dollars real USD to spend on whatever
Speaker 3: you want. Ideally, it's gonna be treating yourself. So head
Speaker 3: to Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash pamper like when you
Speaker 3: pamper yourself pamper to enter the giveaway.
Speaker 1: If you can dodge your wrench, you can dodge a ball.
Speaker 1: If you can't dodge your wrench, you can also not
Speaker 1: dodge a ball. And they all come flying at you, and.
Speaker 3: Every single time straight to the face. I wouldn't even
Speaker 3: be playing the games. I'd be somewhere else on the playground. Boom.
Speaker 1: And then you also get hit by a wrench for
Speaker 1: some reason, so it's just chaos. So one thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: we're gonna give that to you one person, one lucky person.
Speaker 3: You'll get picked by the nice kid at Recess.
Speaker 1: Maybe not for a thousand dollars, but you can always
Speaker 1: try and even if you don't want a thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: because we know some people do not want one thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Entering the giveaway helps us create more giveaways in the future,
Speaker 1: maybe of things that you will like. So Frugal friendspodcast
Speaker 1: dot com, slash Pamper so our annual health insurance If
Speaker 1: you want one that's more on the topic of open enrollment,
Speaker 1: check out the episode we did last year with our
Speaker 1: friend Eileen Doherty. It is episode two fifty four, How
Speaker 1: to Save money on health insurance Open Enrollment Explained, So
Speaker 1: she talks a little bit bit more about how you
Speaker 1: can make open enrollment decisions and save money without sacrificing
Speaker 1: the level of insurance that you need. And then we
Speaker 1: also have episode two thirty negotiating medical Bills with doctor
Speaker 1: Vergie bright Ellington. We just talked about on our last episode.
Speaker 1: This is such a This is an episode we personally
Speaker 1: recommend to so many of our friends. It is and
Speaker 1: our bill of the week. Last episode, she saved what
Speaker 1: was it, She said, ninety percent on her hospital bill,
Speaker 1: brought from like eight hundred dollars to ninety dollars using
Speaker 1: what she learned in episode two thirty. So definitely episodes
Speaker 1: to queue up for after this one. But we want
Speaker 1: to talk about our experiences with healthcare sharing ministries. If
Speaker 1: you are not sure what a healthcare sharing ministry is,
Speaker 1: it is an alternative to health insurance where people pay
Speaker 1: into a quote unquote monthly share and it's paid into
Speaker 1: a pot and people will share medical expenses with the group.
Speaker 1: So very similar but not it. So we'll talk about
Speaker 1: some of the similarities and differences as we go through.
Speaker 3: So this first article comes from UHSM and it's titled
Speaker 3: four Key Differences between Health share Ministries and health Insurance.
Speaker 3: So I think as we go through this, we will
Speaker 3: get a sense for just what our health share ministries
Speaker 3: and how do they differ, which I even with having
Speaker 3: a health share ministry to address our medical expenses, I
Speaker 3: even learned a lot going through this article.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, okay, So we're going to go through
Speaker 1: all of these. The first key difference and this is
Speaker 1: coming This is probably a little more bias towards healthcare
Speaker 1: sharing ministries because it's from United healthcare sharing ministries. But
Speaker 1: the first is affordability, so we all know health insurance
Speaker 1: plants are very expensive. Honestly, that's the primary reason most
Speaker 1: people choose health care sharing is for the affordability. So
Speaker 1: health insurance plans have been increasing. In twenty nineteen, the
Speaker 1: annual premiums for health insurance for a household with four
Speaker 1: cost twenty thousand dollars, and those costs don't even include
Speaker 1: out of pocket expenses that health insurance policyholders have to
Speaker 1: cover on their own. Members of health share ministries, however,
Speaker 1: they pay a lot less. They can save as much
Speaker 1: as fifty percent compared to traditional health insurance plans. So
Speaker 1: that's the main reason, honestly for choosing health care sharing.
Speaker 1: And we definitely that's the reason both Jill and I
Speaker 1: are on these health care sharing ministries because we just
Speaker 1: counted the costs and it was more affordable. But I
Speaker 1: will say so part, I'm the only one in my
Speaker 1: family of four on a healthcare sharing plan. My husband
Speaker 1: and two children are both on his insurance, and so
Speaker 1: what we looked at the cost of having all of
Speaker 1: us on his insurance and it was more affordable to
Speaker 1: and with the amount of times our kids need to
Speaker 1: go to the doctor, we just we calculated the cost
Speaker 1: the average and found that it's more beneficial to us
Speaker 1: to have insurance for the kids. And so if we're
Speaker 1: going to have insurance for the kids, we've got to
Speaker 1: have it for Travis two. But we save money by
Speaker 1: like a couple hundred bucks a month just by me
Speaker 1: being on the healthcare sharing and then being on insurance.
Speaker 1: So it's not an either or, it can be just
Speaker 1: kind of a hybrid. It's up to you to figure
Speaker 1: that out, and hopefully this episode will help you do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they referenced to and here, even before getting into
Speaker 3: the four main differences, that there's this pocket of society
Speaker 3: within the US of those who certainly earn well over
Speaker 3: the federal poverty limit, but still fall short of being
Speaker 3: what they might call quote unquote financially comfortable. And so
Speaker 3: for those who are choosing regular insurance options, sometimes healthcare
Speaker 3: can represent a significant portion of the family budget each month.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, that's where these healthcare sharing ministries come
Speaker 3: into play and can be helpful just regarding affordability month
Speaker 3: to month and sometimes with the out of pocket expenses.
Speaker 3: So then number two, as far as main differences go,
Speaker 3: is organizational aim, meaning what is a health insurance companies
Speaker 3: organizational aim versus a health share ministries organizational aim. And
Speaker 3: for typical health insurance companies, they are for profit organizations,
Speaker 3: so they are going to charge premiums for policies in
Speaker 3: order to make money. That's just how they function. That's
Speaker 3: how most businesses function. You're going to have to have
Speaker 3: some degree of markup to be profitable, and so we
Speaker 3: the consumers are going to be the ones who pay
Speaker 3: for that if we're going the traditional health insurance route.
Speaker 3: Whereas for healthcare sharing ministries, they are nonprofits, so contributions
Speaker 3: are collected in order to cover medical expenses for the members.
Speaker 3: It all kind of goes into a pool and a
Speaker 3: pot and is distributed amongst members. So you're not paying
Speaker 3: as much for some of that profitability of the organization,
Speaker 3: but rather sharing medical costs of those involved within that community.
Speaker 3: So very different of course, how a nonprofit versus a
Speaker 3: for profit might be set up.
Speaker 1: The third is eligibility and payment of medical expenses, and
Speaker 1: so this is what this is the main driver away
Speaker 1: from these programs. So health insurance programs are bound or
Speaker 1: were kind of iffy bound by mandates which dictate that
Speaker 1: all individuals must be accepted into plans, including those in
Speaker 1: poor health pre existing conditions. Health share ministries, on the
Speaker 1: other hand, are not mandated by that, So membership eligibility
Speaker 1: is based on the standards that a particular ministry outlines,
Speaker 1: and each program has different standards, so even if you
Speaker 1: don't qualify one, that doesn't mean you won't qualify for
Speaker 1: any of them. But in this way, healthcare ministry members
Speaker 1: don't have to pool their contributions in an insurance pool
Speaker 1: that doesn't choose its members based on lifestyle or health levels,
Speaker 1: and they have the freedom to share the cost of
Speaker 1: medical care with other like minded individuals. So it's so
Speaker 1: one of the main these eligibility things is is signing
Speaker 1: a statement of faith for for a lot of not all,
Speaker 1: but most of them. And so you have to sign
Speaker 1: a statement that you agree with the faith like foundation
Speaker 1: of the you know, quote unquote ministry. And so I mean,
Speaker 1: we're we're comfortable in doing that. I'm I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: that the one I'm on Liberty doesn't require you to
Speaker 1: have the same faith. It just requires you to accept
Speaker 1: that the nonprofit the ministry operates from. That's from that
Speaker 1: statement of faith. So I like that about about Liberty,
Speaker 1: but so that that is a primary barrier, but also
Speaker 1: the the lifestyle agreements. You have to agree to live
Speaker 1: a certain lifestyle, so and it's it's different again for
Speaker 1: every program, but there's usually you have to fill out
Speaker 1: a questionnaire about like smoking, drinking, you know, all recreational drugs,
Speaker 1: just kind of agreeing that you won't do anything illegal.
Speaker 1: So if you're prone to illegal activity, this isn't going
Speaker 1: to be the best best route for you.
Speaker 3: But what that also means is that some medical expenses
Speaker 3: that are directly connected to those lifestyles would not be
Speaker 3: covered or available for sharing out of the pool. So
Speaker 3: for instance, if it is said that you know, maybe
Speaker 3: lung issues that you're having are directly related to cigarette smoking,
Speaker 3: and they're saying we don't cover things related to lifestyles
Speaker 3: of tobacco use, then it's not going to be covered.
Speaker 3: So this is definitely the I think one of the
Speaker 3: biggest barriers for some people in choosing healthcare sharing ministries.
Speaker 3: That eligibility requirements or willingness to sign these different statements
Speaker 3: or agreements to lifestyle can be quite pro prohibitive to some,
Speaker 3: whereas for others it's the affordability is the biggest priority,
Speaker 3: and so some of these other things you might be
Speaker 3: willing to adhere to in order to save the amount
Speaker 3: of money. So definitely pros and cons and that that one,
Speaker 3: that third one is certainly a big one. The last
Speaker 3: one on this list of the big differences between the
Speaker 3: two options is flexibility with available medical professionals. So for
Speaker 3: health insurance, typical health insurance companies, usually, in an effort
Speaker 3: to keep costs well as low as possible on their side,
Speaker 3: they will restrict the choice of physicians and hospitals that
Speaker 3: policy holders can visit. Probably many of you are familiar
Speaker 3: with the rigamarole of maybe needing to change inssurance and
Speaker 3: then possibly change doctors and call around to see who's
Speaker 3: in network and who's out of network and where can
Speaker 3: I go and where can't I go, And they may
Speaker 3: place limits on the types of medications that are made available,
Speaker 3: whereas healthcare health share ministries often do not place such
Speaker 3: restrictions on the type of doctor or specialist that members
Speaker 3: can visit. So that's something to keep in mind as well.
Speaker 3: I will say, from my experience, there is still a
Speaker 3: version of an in network out of network. It doesn't
Speaker 3: preclude me from being able to visit whoever I want.
Speaker 3: There just might be increased savings if I were to
Speaker 3: choose a doctor or office or hospital that is termed
Speaker 3: kind of within I don't know if they even use
Speaker 3: that exact language, but essentially within network. Still I can
Speaker 3: choose wherever I want to go, I just might not
Speaker 3: see the same amount of savings. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So as we get kind of more into revealing
Speaker 1: our stories, we'll go into this next article from good
Speaker 1: RX and it's called what is a medical cost sharing program?
Speaker 1: But we really want to talk in this one about
Speaker 1: like what questions should you ask before you join a
Speaker 1: medical cost sharing plan?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: And so the first part of the article kind of
Speaker 1: covers what we already went through, but I will add
Speaker 1: this stat that more than one point five million Americans
Speaker 1: are members of these religion based cost sharing groups. So
Speaker 1: this isn't just a you know, a fringe, you know,
Speaker 1: group of people. There are a lot of people on
Speaker 1: these programs. They do what they say, what they claim
Speaker 1: to do, and so this is something that is a
Speaker 1: possibility for you to look into. If you don't have
Speaker 1: a lot of medical concerns, a lot of reasons you
Speaker 1: go to the doctor. That's probably the biggest. You know,
Speaker 1: if I had a chronic health condition that I was
Speaker 1: going to the doctor for regularly, I may be a
Speaker 1: little more hesitant. But I used this for my second pregnancy.
Speaker 1: I was on healthcare sharing. I had no insurance and
Speaker 1: obviously going to the doctor a lot, and it was
Speaker 1: there were some frustrations, but in the end, it was
Speaker 1: a very painless experience to use this. I think it
Speaker 1: was about as painful as using insurance for my first birth.
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's any harder to use health
Speaker 1: care sharing, but that was like a season in my life.
Speaker 1: If healthcare is something that you are, you know, dealing
Speaker 1: with constantly, then this is gonna be a harder decision
Speaker 1: for you. But so we want to go through those
Speaker 1: questions you should ask if you are thinking about it,
Speaker 1: and the first one is, well, the first one on
Speaker 1: this list is what are they But we kind of
Speaker 1: already covered that, so maybe we'll go into the second one. Jill.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So an important question to ask is can medical
Speaker 3: cost sharing be a better option than health insurance? Of course,
Speaker 3: the answer is ultimately going to be individualized, but as
Speaker 3: you ask this question, you can kind of look at
Speaker 3: the pros and cons of both what's going to fit
Speaker 3: for you. So those who are in support of medical
Speaker 3: cost sharing are often attracted by the lower monthly payments.
Speaker 3: So these programs typically call them share amounts, very similar
Speaker 3: to a premium that you might pay with a regular
Speaker 3: insurance So those monthly costs can be one hundred dollars
Speaker 3: or less for a single person by contract, a bronze
Speaker 3: level plan from the health insurance marketplace averages about three
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty dollars a month for that same one person.
Speaker 3: There of course, are some government subsidies available that can
Speaker 3: bring that cost lower, but if you were just to
Speaker 3: compare them at face value, one is at least double,
Speaker 3: if not more, as far as insurance goes from these
Speaker 3: monthly share costs, and that's not to then talk about
Speaker 3: other out of pocket expenses. And so these cost sharing
Speaker 3: plans can often get lower prices on treatment because the
Speaker 3: plans or their members pay healthcare providers directly, which does
Speaker 3: allow a lot more room for a different pricing structure
Speaker 3: with the healthcare providers or hospitals. And additionally, some of
Speaker 3: the healthcare sharing plans will cover some things that regular
Speaker 3: insurance does not. Examples of this include medical treatment and
Speaker 3: overseas if that's needed, funeral costs sometimes even adoption expenses
Speaker 3: at certain tiers and with certain types of healthcare sharing.
Speaker 3: So I think it really is going to depend on
Speaker 3: what types of coverage do you need, what is your
Speaker 3: biggest priority in considering whether medical cost sharing is better
Speaker 3: for you than health insurance. On the flip side, of course,
Speaker 3: medical cost sharing lacks some of the safeguards of regular
Speaker 3: health insurance, but it still can work for some people.
Speaker 1: Mm hm. So I have pulled up my plan, so
Speaker 1: I just want to since we're talking about costs, I,
Speaker 1: you know, do not know what your health insurance costs.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how it compares, but I can
Speaker 1: tell you what I am paying and what I'm paying
Speaker 1: for and just you know, out of this one peron
Speaker 1: this one healthcare sharing company or nonprofit and you can
Speaker 1: start to compare. So I am personally with Liberty health
Speaker 1: Share Jill. Which one are you one?
Speaker 3: Meta share?
Speaker 1: Meta Share?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: And I have been on Christian healthcare ministries in the
Speaker 1: way back. So this is I got free health insurance
Speaker 1: when I was employed, so I stopped that one and
Speaker 1: then when I left that job went on to liberty.
Speaker 1: So I am on the highest tier of liberty. So
Speaker 1: there's three tiers, well there's technically five, but one is
Speaker 1: for people on Medicare sixty five plus and the other
Speaker 1: one is for like eighteen to twenty nine year olds,
Speaker 1: And so I am on the highest tier of the
Speaker 1: one that I qualify for. And they actually break it
Speaker 1: down by age two. So if you're under thirty five,
Speaker 1: so basically you know, thirty to thirty five you get
Speaker 1: or thirty to thirty four you get one price, thirty
Speaker 1: five to forty nine gets a higher price, and then
Speaker 1: fifty plus gets a higher price up until sixty five
Speaker 1: that higher tier, and I'm on the most expensive tier.
Speaker 1: I am thirty four years old. So I pay two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty nine dollars a month my AUA, which
Speaker 1: is my annual unshared amount. This would be similar to
Speaker 1: I guess a deductible and I'm I will never insurance
Speaker 1: terms are the one thing I will always confuse, I
Speaker 1: will never master. I will always have to google. I'm
Speaker 1: a really bad personal finance expert when it comes to starts.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, but so my annual unshared amount is
Speaker 1: one thousand dollars anything after one thousand dollars is up
Speaker 1: to one million dollars per incident is completely shared. That's
Speaker 1: what's on the highest tier. I chose that one because
Speaker 1: I knew I was going to get pregnant. You have
Speaker 1: to be on it for at least I think it's
Speaker 1: six to ten months depending on the plant on the
Speaker 1: program before you before you can get pregnant and have
Speaker 1: that pregnancy covered, so which I was more than fine
Speaker 1: with because I've been on it for several years. But
Speaker 1: I chose into this one specifically at a time when
Speaker 1: I was like, I think I'm going to get pregnant
Speaker 1: in the future, I'm going to choose this one now,
Speaker 1: so I have the brand amount and I didn't even
Speaker 1: get my birth control taken out until it was, you know,
Speaker 1: six months into this current program. But they have two
Speaker 1: other lower ones. So the next lower one has the
Speaker 1: same annual unshared amount of one thousand uh and then
Speaker 1: it is there is a co share of fifteen percent
Speaker 1: after the AUA has been met. And then the lowest one,
Speaker 1: the auay is four thousand per year and there's a
Speaker 1: twenty five percent kosher. But that one I would be
Speaker 1: if I was on that one I'd be paying one
Speaker 1: fifty nine a month versus the two fifty nine, So
Speaker 1: it's like fifty dollars increments per month higher. And there's
Speaker 1: it's a little higher, you know if you're a couple
Speaker 1: or family, but still a lot better. So we are
Speaker 1: on a fairly low level, high deductible plan for Travis
Speaker 1: and the kids, and it was still cheaper for me
Speaker 1: to be on here. I think it was going to
Speaker 1: be an extra four or five hundred dollars a month
Speaker 1: to put me on the insurance and instead I'm over
Speaker 1: here paying two fifty nine per month. So even if
Speaker 1: there's if the person who's not owning the insurance policy
Speaker 1: maybe wants to look into getting onto healthcare sharing, that
Speaker 1: might be a way to save a couple hundred bucks
Speaker 1: a month, is by kind of doing the hybrid that
Speaker 1: we're doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Whereas Eric and I pay rite about two
Speaker 3: hundred dollars a month for the both of us, but
Speaker 3: we have a very high what is similar to a deductible.
Speaker 3: They don't call it that in the healthcare sharing world,
Speaker 3: but the deductible what you would have to pay out
Speaker 3: of pocket before they start covering your expenses. We chose
Speaker 3: the ten thousand dollars deductible, and that just has helped
Speaker 3: to dictate what is in our emergency fund, and certainly
Speaker 3: chose that during a time when we just did not
Speaker 3: have the money to spend more than two hundred dollars
Speaker 3: a month towards this and we're not going to the
Speaker 3: doctor hardly ever, So that's what worked for us.
Speaker 1: So the next question you need to ask before joining
Speaker 1: healthcare sharing program is what risks are associated. So unlike
Speaker 1: health insurance, the legal system can't, for worse, these programs
Speaker 1: to pay members medical bills. But honestly, even in health insurance,
Speaker 1: and it's very hard to get them to pay for
Speaker 1: some medical bills. But state governments have no control over
Speaker 1: healthcare sharing. In fact, thirty states have laws saying these
Speaker 1: plans are not bound by insurance company rules, insurance watchdogs
Speaker 1: and at least fifteen states have warned people to be
Speaker 1: careful with these plans. But these are you know, insurance,
Speaker 1: these are insurance people, insurance experts, and they say the
Speaker 1: Insurance Apartment department can't assist you with any complaints about
Speaker 1: a healthcare sharing ministry. So you do need to read
Speaker 1: the book they're gonna they have a book that you
Speaker 1: it's a it's a very thick magazine for us, and
Speaker 1: it tells you all the things they cover, the things
Speaker 1: they won't cover. All of this. You got to know
Speaker 1: all of this stuff before you signed up. There are
Speaker 1: time restrictions, like with the pregnancy thing like our like
Speaker 1: Liberty covered one hundred percent of everything for my pregnancy
Speaker 1: after the AUA and covered it as one considered it
Speaker 1: one expense, and so we got like, but I had
Speaker 1: to submit all of my claims for my pregnancy within
Speaker 1: six months of the the birth. So you have to
Speaker 1: there's a time limit on when you could submit medical
Speaker 1: bills has to be within six months of the of
Speaker 1: the date of service, and if it's after they don't
Speaker 1: have any they will not cover it. And that's again
Speaker 1: I only speak for Liberty, so yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: the only the only bad thing. So sometimes I think
Speaker 1: the biggest reason we chose Liberty was because they would
Speaker 1: pay the provider directly. Some of these require you to
Speaker 1: pay the provider and they reimburse you. But I knew
Speaker 1: for a pregnancy I was going to have a hospital stay,
Speaker 1: and lo and behold, I got a seventy two thousand
Speaker 1: dollars bill from my hospital for my c section in
Speaker 1: three days stay. That is a bandsive hotels.
Speaker 3: The day is.
Speaker 1: Right, and I couldn't pay that and have somebody reimburse me,
Speaker 1: no way. So I submitted it to Liberty as soon
Speaker 1: as I got it, and they paid the provider directly.
Speaker 1: Some of them they paid me. I overpaid my AUA
Speaker 1: and they reimbursed me. So all that, But then there
Speaker 1: was one snaff fu where I called and I thought
Speaker 1: they had they had paid the provider, but they had
Speaker 1: actually paid me. So I'm like getting letters that I'm
Speaker 1: in collections and I'm like, but no, but they say
Speaker 1: they paid it. And so I called again and I
Speaker 1: missed on the thing where it said it was paid,
Speaker 1: but it was paid to member. So I'd gotten a
Speaker 1: bunch of checks for overpaying my away and I didn't
Speaker 1: know what they were all for. I just I had
Speaker 1: a newborn. I just deposited the checks, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was like, yay money, uh, And so that happened,
Speaker 1: That's what it was. And so I am right now
Speaker 1: in collections. I have to pay this bill that just
Speaker 1: happened yesterday. But but yeah, so they were very diligent
Speaker 1: in paying me, reimbursing me. Literally. I submitted that seventy
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars expense and within a week I logged
Speaker 1: back in to the portal and it was zeroed out.
Speaker 1: So that was fantastic, very seamless. I think the biggest
Speaker 1: problem I had was with my doctor's office that I
Speaker 1: wanted them. I told I was like, you can bill
Speaker 1: the provider or sorry, you can bill the healthcare sharing
Speaker 1: and they were like, no, we can't. And I was like,
Speaker 1: yes you can, and they were like, okay, we will,
Speaker 1: and I was like cool and they were like nope,
Speaker 1: just kidding. And then I was like, okay, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: And so I'm thinking, I have to submit all these
Speaker 1: expenses and in the meantime they're submitting them too, so
Speaker 1: I And that's another thing I found out when I
Speaker 1: was on this call. Was it like yesterday or two
Speaker 1: days ago, that I had double sent in some bills
Speaker 1: because the doctor's office was sending them when I didn't
Speaker 1: know they were sending them. So it can be confusing
Speaker 1: for some doctor's offices to figure out what to do
Speaker 1: with people on healthcare sharing. Is it annoying?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Was it a deal breaker?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: Because the things got paid. If they weren't going to
Speaker 1: do it, I could do it and you know, would
Speaker 1: pay it. I didn't have to pay seventy two thousand
Speaker 1: dollars out of pocket. But so depending on which one
Speaker 1: you go to, having to pay out a pocket is
Speaker 1: a risk. And sometimes there's limits on how many doctor
Speaker 1: visits they'll cover the amount of coverage. So if I
Speaker 1: go in and the cost is under two hundred, they
Speaker 1: don't cover it no matter what it is. If it's
Speaker 1: under two hundred dollars, they don't cover it, don't build,
Speaker 1: you know, don't submit it. So some stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So you just have to read, read the book, and
Speaker 1: see and compare these programs before you go with.
Speaker 3: One, which goes to the next question. Do medical cost
Speaker 3: sharing plans cover all conditions? And the answer is no.
Speaker 3: They're not required to cover everything, and that's one of
Speaker 3: the reasons that they do cost less than regular health insurance.
Speaker 3: But these plans are not bound by the Affordable Care
Speaker 3: Act rules, so they do not have to cover pre
Speaker 3: existing conditions, and they are also not bound or that
Speaker 3: they can be exempt from having to cover the ACA's
Speaker 3: top ten essential health benefit fits, which are ambulatory patient services,
Speaker 3: emergency services, pregnancy, maternity and newborn care, mental health and
Speaker 3: substance use disorder services, prescription drugs, rehabilitative services and devices,
Speaker 3: laboratory services, preventative and wellness services, and pediatric services. Now
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that they do not cover these things.
Speaker 3: It just means that they don't have to. And that's
Speaker 3: where reading that book that Jen is describing the meaning
Speaker 3: the book that these healthcare sharing plans will give you
Speaker 3: outlining what will we cover, what will we not cover?
Speaker 3: That's going to help you determine is this going to
Speaker 3: be the right option for you, knowing what are you
Speaker 3: currently dealing with, what might you be dealing with in
Speaker 3: the future, What are you certain you want them to cover?
Speaker 3: What do you not care about? Are their aspects that
Speaker 3: they aren't going to cover that don't pertain to you?
Speaker 3: So that's no problem. So it's just worth noting that
Speaker 3: they don't they're not bound to cover these things, but
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that they won't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was just looking up kind of like
Speaker 1: what is the ambulance policy for liberty and so they
Speaker 1: have the right to dictate what is emergency and non emergency,
Speaker 1: So expenses resulting from transportation by ambulance for conditions that
Speaker 1: will not seriously jeopardize the sharing member's health or life
Speaker 1: are not eligible for sharing. But if it is deemed,
Speaker 1: you know, seriously jeopardizing to their life, those travel things
Speaker 1: can be eligible for sharing. So and any additional expenses
Speaker 1: for transportation to a facility the nearest facility capable of
Speaker 1: providing medically necessary care are not eligible for sharing. So
Speaker 1: again you should be reading these things. When you have insurance, right,
Speaker 1: you have to know which providers are in network, which
Speaker 1: are not, which hospitals are in network, which ones are not,
Speaker 1: and we talk a lot about that in our open
Speaker 1: enrollment episode from last year. But you have to do
Speaker 1: the same thing with healthcare sharing, so it's not different
Speaker 1: these Just because these healthcare sharing services don't have to
Speaker 1: provide care like an insurance company doesn't mean they don't.
Speaker 1: You just have to be aware of what they do
Speaker 1: and do not. So the next question to ask is
Speaker 1: can you lose your membership in a medical cost sharing
Speaker 1: plan And the answer is yes. So each plan's guidelines
Speaker 1: spell out the rules for members and if you don't
Speaker 1: meet those, Again, it's mostly the lifestyle stuff you can
Speaker 1: actually be dropped from a plan, which is it's a
Speaker 1: lot harder for insurance. Now, this this points out that
Speaker 1: a lot like you can be dropped for like religious reasons,
Speaker 1: that that is very rare in these plans nowadays nobody
Speaker 1: is nobody really cares if you know what you're doing
Speaker 1: behind closed doors. I think I haven't looked up kind
Speaker 1: of like what you can be dropped for on liberty,
Speaker 1: but these plans do come with that stipulation. So that's
Speaker 1: another thing to be aware of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think more often they just might not cover
Speaker 3: expenses over being dropped, but I would imagine it depends
Speaker 3: on how often you're submitting expenses that may not be
Speaker 3: in line with what you've already signed and agreed to
Speaker 3: not be engaging in. But haven't heard of it, but
Speaker 3: I guess it is possible. And then the last question
Speaker 3: to ask is just a series of questions. So here's
Speaker 3: some other ones that may or may not pertain to you,
Speaker 3: but worth considering if you're looking into these options, including
Speaker 3: what are the plan's lifestyle rules? What are you going
Speaker 3: to have to sign? Can you in good conscience sign that?
Speaker 3: What will I have to pay out of pocket? What
Speaker 3: if anything does the plan guarantee it will cover? Will
Speaker 3: my doctor accept the plan? Is there any sort of
Speaker 3: network of providers if I have a pre existing condition?
Speaker 3: What are the rules for cost sharing? When I have
Speaker 3: doctor bills? Does the plan pay them directly? Do I
Speaker 3: cover them and then the plan pays me back? Like?
Speaker 3: What is that process? Because Gen's process with Liberty is
Speaker 3: different from my process with Meta Share, so some of
Speaker 3: these healthcare sharing networks do approach that process differently. How
Speaker 3: do I appeal a sharing decision? And finally, how does
Speaker 3: the plan suspend a member's coverage if it gets to
Speaker 3: that point? What does that look like? I'm sure there's
Speaker 3: plenty of other questions, but this is a really good
Speaker 3: start as you're considering what's gonna be the best fit
Speaker 3: for you and speaking of good fits, best fits, right fits.
Speaker 3: We got the fit the fit for everybody. The Bill
Speaker 3: of the week.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 2: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 2: is Williams.
Speaker 1: Maybe you paid off.
Speaker 2: Your mortgage, maybe your car died and you're happy to
Speaker 2: not have to pay that bill anymore. That bills, Buffalo bills,
Speaker 2: Bill clion, This is the bill of the week.
Speaker 4: Hi, guys, love the podcast. So I have had to
Speaker 4: tighten my budget recently and was looking around for ways
Speaker 4: I could save money, and I realized I was spending
Speaker 4: about fifty dollars a month, not including tip, on my haircuts.
Speaker 4: I have a pretty short PIXI cut and so it
Speaker 4: has to be maintained pretty frequently, and I was going
Speaker 4: in for cuts about four weeks, maybe every five weeks
Speaker 4: if I could push it. And I was thinking about
Speaker 4: it and how I could save money, and I decided
Speaker 4: to take the step of shaving my head and I
Speaker 4: gave myself a buzz cut at home in my bathroom,
Speaker 4: got my teenage daughter to help me. And it is
Speaker 4: something I've always kind of wanted to do, but never
Speaker 4: felt brave enough to try. And I realized that by
Speaker 4: shaving it all off, I could save fifty dollars a
Speaker 4: month and rock an amazing buzz cut. My teenager loves it.
Speaker 4: She thinks it's the coolest thing ever. And I've been
Speaker 4: getting so many compliments and I actually love it. So
Speaker 4: that's my bill of the week. I no longer I'm
Speaker 4: spending fifty plus dollars a month on my haircuts, because
Speaker 4: now I have an awesome buzz cut.
Speaker 1: Thanks, oh my gosh, and you have an awesome bonding
Speaker 1: time with your daughter who's help and a buzz it.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: This is amazing. This is problem solving outside of the
Speaker 3: box thinking. I love the choice that you made in
Speaker 3: this and how it was congruent with something you actually wanted.
Speaker 3: I could never tell somebody just shave your head to
Speaker 3: save money on haircuts, and that's like a quality financial
Speaker 3: decision for everybody. But the part that stood out to
Speaker 3: me was you saying you've all always wanted to do
Speaker 3: this but never felt brave enough, and this was kind
Speaker 3: of the push that you needed to cut costs in
Speaker 3: that way by cutting your own hair, becoming brave, loving it,
Speaker 3: bonding with your child, like this is so amazing. I
Speaker 3: love the way that you've chosen to shave, save saved
Speaker 3: by shaving.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is like in this time
Speaker 1: in our lives, Like I so my friend Elena, she
Speaker 1: buzzed her hair and that same thing. She said she's
Speaker 1: always wanted to do it and then just finally did it.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I take take charge. If this is
Speaker 1: something you thought about, like it is your time. The
Speaker 1: people are with you. I love it.
Speaker 3: I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum by saving
Speaker 3: by never cutting my hair. That is where I grows
Speaker 3: and grows one hair grows and.
Speaker 1: Grows one hair cut a year.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 1: That's where I'm at.
Speaker 3: Regardless of where you're at. If you've got a bill
Speaker 3: to submit to us, if it has to do with
Speaker 3: saving by shaving, budget cutting by cutting your own hair,
Speaker 3: or your name is Bill, whether or not you have hair,
Speaker 3: visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash bill. Leave us
Speaker 3: your bill. We can't wait. And now it's time for
Speaker 3: the lightning round.
Speaker 1: Peo pew so for today's lightning round. So the question
Speaker 1: is like, would you recommend healthcare sharing? Why or why not?
Speaker 1: I don't think I can really say whether I recommend
Speaker 1: it because I don't know you, Like I don't know
Speaker 1: the effort you're willing to put into like negotiating costs
Speaker 1: self care, because some you can if you get a
Speaker 1: bill and whatever you go sociate down, they'll take that
Speaker 1: part as you're as part of your annual unshared amount.
Speaker 1: So if you are good at that and you want
Speaker 1: to do that, it's really cool, Like it's really good
Speaker 1: for you. Sometimes sometimes it's not. Uh, I think for me.
Speaker 1: I can only speak for me and my family. Uh.
Speaker 1: It made sense for us because we don't go to
Speaker 1: the doctor often. We do not have any chronic health
Speaker 1: care conditions. We don't have any like mental health care
Speaker 1: conditions that we seek out, you know that we seek
Speaker 1: help for We just like bury them down deep inside.
Speaker 1: Just kidding, We don't do that. So so it made
Speaker 1: sense for us, right. And even when I had the
Speaker 1: opportunity for free insurance, obviously I took it. And then
Speaker 1: when that was taken away from me so rudely, then
Speaker 1: we went we Travis and I just had insurance for
Speaker 1: a few years because it wasn't that expensive. And now
Speaker 1: that we have children, it's different. So you reevaluate every
Speaker 1: season in your life, right, So there was a while.
Speaker 1: So in Florida, under four kids can be on Medicaid
Speaker 1: medicids and we don't get it for free. It's based
Speaker 1: on income whether you get it for free or not.
Speaker 1: But you can still be on the plan and it's
Speaker 1: very inexpensive, even full price. So Kai was on medicids
Speaker 1: for the first four years of your life, and both
Speaker 1: of us were on healthcare sharing and that saved us money.
Speaker 1: So look at your state, county, city, whatever's programs for insurance.
Speaker 1: Compare it to some of the top healthcare sharing providers,
Speaker 1: and see the options that you have for just saving
Speaker 1: a little bit. See what your options are, because it
Speaker 1: can it is a way to temper one of those
Speaker 1: fixed quote unquote fixed expenses that we all view as
Speaker 1: fixed but can actually be creatively lowered. You know, it's
Speaker 1: not right for everyone, but I have personally had a
Speaker 1: good experience with Liberty. We are not paid by them,
Speaker 1: but I just literally found out ten seconds ago that
Speaker 1: anybody who signs up based on my referral, I could
Speaker 1: get one hundred and fifty dollars gift card. So let
Speaker 1: me know if you said, yeah, let me know if
Speaker 1: you sign up. But yeah, I mean, and Liberty has
Speaker 1: like all of the not all of but a lot
Speaker 1: of the benefits that I would have used that I
Speaker 1: would have assumed only traditional insurance had, Like telehealth. There's
Speaker 1: free telehealth from Liberty. I just download an app and
Speaker 1: I have several times use their telehealth for free, and
Speaker 1: then they just call in my prescription and I go
Speaker 1: pick it up. Uh, They've got a.
Speaker 4: Like a.
Speaker 1: Good RX type of say, like savings plan for prescriptions. Uh,
Speaker 1: they have a dental savings plan. Uh, they have one
Speaker 1: for I I wear. They even I just found out
Speaker 1: have discounts on Lasik, which I should have checked before
Speaker 1: I got Lasik. Oopsies, right, But yeah, I yeah, I
Speaker 1: really like it and it's got a lot of the
Speaker 1: things I like. I, you know, had a good experience
Speaker 1: with my maternity care. I got to pick I got
Speaker 1: to use my doctor that I like. I got to
Speaker 1: stay in the hospital for the entire time that I
Speaker 1: was able to. I literally I stayed an extra night
Speaker 1: and day than I did with Kai because I wanted
Speaker 1: to get home with Kai and with the second when
Speaker 1: I was like, please keep me as long as I
Speaker 1: am able to stay, I never got My mother in
Speaker 1: law said she stayed in the hospital ten days after
Speaker 1: she had Travis, and I was like, what why? And
Speaker 1: now I get it. So yeah, and I didn't have
Speaker 1: to worry about any of those costs not being covered.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say similarly, it's definitely an individual choice
Speaker 3: and decision, you know yourself best. For me and Eric,
Speaker 3: affordability was the biggest piece and factor. Knowing that we're
Speaker 3: relatively healthy. We don't go to the doctors that often.
Speaker 3: What I primarily utilize the doctor for is I've got
Speaker 3: a head cold or something else that I know what's
Speaker 3: going on, I can utilize the free telehealth. If a
Speaker 3: prescription is needed, they can call it in and just
Speaker 3: keep costs so so lu So if that's if you're
Speaker 3: in a similar position, then it could be worth it.
Speaker 3: Another benefit that we have through meta share is that
Speaker 3: they will give additional discounts for healthy living, So beyond
Speaker 3: the whole lifestyle thing that you have to sign, if
Speaker 3: you are willing to submit blood pressure, height, weight, you've
Speaker 3: kind of said, yes, we exercise, we live this healthy lifestyle,
Speaker 3: we're low risk for certain medical conditions. They give an
Speaker 3: even greater discount to your monthly share amount. So that's
Speaker 3: been a benefit to us as well. Two other things
Speaker 3: though that I will note didn't come up in these
Speaker 3: other articles, that are worth considering. If you are in
Speaker 3: this process of wondering what's best is to look into
Speaker 3: the process of what it means to adjust your monthly
Speaker 3: share amount. Were adjust your the equivalent of the deductible
Speaker 3: When I when we first went on Meta share, I
Speaker 3: had a lower essentially annual deductible. Again, that's not what
Speaker 3: they call it, but's what I'm going to call it
Speaker 3: for the sake of understanding. So we were at about
Speaker 3: maybe a four thousand dollars annual deductible at one point
Speaker 3: when I was just kind of readjusting all of our
Speaker 3: bills and expenses and realizing that we've been on this
Speaker 3: plan for six to eight years and we hardly ever
Speaker 3: use it. It didn't feel like the monthly amount was
Speaker 3: worth it for me for that lower deductible. So that's
Speaker 3: when I chose to increase it to the ten thousand
Speaker 3: dollars deductible. More recently, i've been interested in decreasing that amount,
Speaker 3: but only then did I realize that it's quite a
Speaker 3: process to change it. I don't know if this would
Speaker 3: be the case for all types of sharing plans, but
Speaker 3: when I called they you have to incrementally drop down
Speaker 3: your annual deductible. So they could have dropped me down
Speaker 3: from ten thousand and nine thousand dollars annually, which would
Speaker 3: increase my monthly I'd have to wait six months before
Speaker 3: I could drop again. So if I'm starting at ten
Speaker 3: thousand and I want to see myself back at five thousand.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're talking years before I'm going to get there.
Speaker 3: And then I asked, well, then why would I not
Speaker 3: just cancel and restart, and they were saying, yes, you
Speaker 3: could do that, but like we said at the beginning
Speaker 3: of this episode, for many of these health sharing ministries,
Speaker 3: they won't start providing benefits to you until six months
Speaker 3: after signing up. So yes, I could drop them and
Speaker 3: re become a member, but nothing would be covered for
Speaker 3: me or go towards my annual share amount until six
Speaker 3: months of being on the plan and paying monthly. So
Speaker 3: that's just worth stating. Make sure that you lock yourself
Speaker 3: in at a good annual deductible, because to change or
Speaker 3: to go to a lower level annual deductible might be
Speaker 3: quite a cumbersome process. I also have recently learned, at
Speaker 3: least with the sharing that we utilize with Meta Share,
Speaker 3: that even with your annual deductible, it's not as if
Speaker 3: every medical expense you pay goes towards that annual deductible.
Speaker 3: Not everything is eligible for sharing, so you may pay
Speaker 3: out of pocket for care that doesn't even count towards
Speaker 3: your medical deductible. So one of the things that Meta
Speaker 3: share specifically doesn't cover is just like routine preventative care,
Speaker 3: So like a PAP smear, if you're going for a
Speaker 3: pap smear, they're not going to cover it. And the
Speaker 3: amount that you pay towards a pap smear doesn't even
Speaker 3: count towards your deductible. So clearly not sponsored by them.
Speaker 3: Because that's in my estimation that that's not great. It's
Speaker 3: something I'm willing to do. I think overall, annually it's
Speaker 3: it is still less expensive for us than if I
Speaker 3: were to get on a traditional health insurance plan. But
Speaker 3: these are the things that are worth knowing before making
Speaker 3: the switch or signing up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Liberty. One of the reasons I chose Liberty was
Speaker 1: that they do cover like primary care, like yearly preventative,
Speaker 1: so you have to be on for at least two months,
Speaker 1: and then any annual preventative wellness visit and related lab
Speaker 1: work for which there are like no symptoms or diagnoses
Speaker 1: in advance are eligible for sharing up to a max
Speaker 1: of four hundred dollars. And they but they do have
Speaker 1: some like unshared amounts per visit, so like a primary
Speaker 1: care doctor would just be twenty five you'd have to
Speaker 1: pay twenty five for that, and then the map like
Speaker 1: beyond it would be like that, and then they have
Speaker 1: unshared amoun it's for like the emergency room is five
Speaker 1: hundred CT scans mrized two hundred, But that's very comparable
Speaker 1: to insurance, to those those prices. But yeah, again not
Speaker 1: sponsored by Liberty. But I you know, things, I've liked them.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're really the only thing they say they
Speaker 1: explicitly will not share are things that are outside of
Speaker 1: their sharing guidelines. So again like if you're taking illicit
Speaker 1: drugs and something happens, they don't cover anything related to
Speaker 1: results of you know, drug use or smoking. So I
Speaker 1: believe like that they didn't have to be on six
Speaker 1: consecutive months before they will share anything maternity related.
Speaker 3: Okay that yeah, I have a couple of friends on
Speaker 3: Liberty and I think with them you have to be
Speaker 3: on a specific tier to get maternity cover, and that
Speaker 3: wasn't great for a friend recently. Whereas so like for
Speaker 3: Meta Share, for example, any tier you're on medical care
Speaker 3: or maternity care is covered, but I believe it's Liberty
Speaker 3: you have to select the one that would cover it.
Speaker 3: So they were in a position where they thought that
Speaker 3: they were covered and then got pregnant, and then come
Speaker 3: to find out they weren't on the right tier of
Speaker 3: the medical share plan and then couldn't switch because you
Speaker 3: can't switch once you do become pregnant. So that wasn't
Speaker 3: a great experience for them. So it really is a
Speaker 3: matter of doing due diligence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am. I'm looking at the I'm looking at
Speaker 1: the maternity care and it does say any of the program.
Speaker 3: So maybe it wasn't you know what, Maybe it was
Speaker 3: CHM sorry Liberty, it was hm.
Speaker 1: Any Unite, Liberty connect Essential, even the eighteen to twenty
Speaker 1: nine or the sixty five plus plans. Oh, yes, just
Speaker 1: as long as you've been on six consecutive months. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, so if this causes you to sign up
Speaker 1: for Liberty, you better reach out to me on Instagram
Speaker 1: so I can get that gift card. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: if you're listening and this prompts you to do that,
Speaker 1: I'm no shame. Tell me so I can get a
Speaker 1: gift card because Liberty ain't paying me except for they
Speaker 1: pay my medical expenses. Anyways, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: We love, love, love reading your kind reviews. We especially
Speaker 1: love this one from poison Blackberries. I love that now
Speaker 1: and they say great tips from great chicks. This is
Speaker 1: a wonderful podcast with helpful finance tips. Jen and Jill
Speaker 1: are so genuine and helpful, and I love hearing their
Speaker 1: open and honest personal perspective. They have a wide variety
Speaker 1: of topics and their concept of the radical middle is
Speaker 1: so valuable and should be applied in all areas of life.
Speaker 1: So happy I found this podcast and I enjoy the
Speaker 1: fun banter between the hosts. I love the recent story
Speaker 1: of Jill's pans and how she fixed them and returned
Speaker 1: the new set excited for your upcoming book.
Speaker 3: Yay, I'm still wondering about those poisoned blackberries. Oh that's
Speaker 3: just your name. That's amazing, beautiful, and I'm glad that
Speaker 3: you enjoyed the story. Thanks so much for listening. If
Speaker 3: you all are listening and you are hearing this review
Speaker 3: and it's inspiring you to want to take a minute
Speaker 3: and leave a rating and a review, that is one
Speaker 3: of the best gifts you can give to us and
Speaker 3: others because it helps potential new listeners know if this
Speaker 3: is going to be a good fit for them. So
Speaker 3: please go right and review us.
Speaker 1: Bye Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.