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Speaker 1: I've never been in trouble in my life.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even have a parking ticket, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: I was brought up with cops are the good guys.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know what was going to happen, but I

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Speaker 3: do know that everything was stacked against me.

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Speaker 2: Everything like everything.

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Speaker 3: This isn't supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent. I

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Speaker 3: know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with this. How is this possible?

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Speaker 2: I grew up trusting systems. I've grew up believing that

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Speaker 2: every human being should do the right thing. And that's why,

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Speaker 2: even though I knew I was dealing with corerough people,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't going to break anyone to get me out

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Speaker 2: of prison because I wouldn't live with the fact that

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Speaker 2: I break my way out of my wife's death. I'm

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Speaker 2: not innocent, too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I prove

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Speaker 2: my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened to me.

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Speaker 4: Our system.

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Speaker 1: Since I've been out ten years, it has come a

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Speaker 1: little ways, but it's still broken.

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Speaker 2: I totally lost trust in humanity after what's happened to me.

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Speaker 1: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction with

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Speaker 1: Jason Flamm that's me, and today I have an extraordinary

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Speaker 1: person as my guest, a man named Rafael Madrigal. Raphael,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Good morning, and Raphael, you know

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Speaker 1: I often say it, I'm going to say to you,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy you're here, but i'm sorry you're here because

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Speaker 1: there's absolutely no excuse for what happened to you. And

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Speaker 1: as a member of as an American and as a human,

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Speaker 1: I apologize to you on behalf of everyone because this

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Speaker 1: this story, it literally makes no sense whatsoever. Are you

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Speaker 1: know better than anyone and I and I want to

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Speaker 1: get into all those details because your story has so

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Speaker 1: many things that we see again and again right. It

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Speaker 1: has mistaken eye witness identification. It has an incompetent defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: It has an air tight alibi that anybody in you know,

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Speaker 1: any with any degree of sanity or education or knowledge

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Speaker 1: of justice with nobody could have possibly convicted you based

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Speaker 1: on those factors. But we're going to unravel all of

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Speaker 1: that and find out how you got charged with first

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Speaker 1: degree murder and how you got exonerated as we go along.

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Speaker 1: But before we do that, let's go back, like at

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Speaker 1: a time machine, to when you were a kid. Where

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Speaker 1: where did you grow up in California?

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Speaker 4: Yes? I did. I grew up in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: So was it a difficult childhood or a happy family life? What?

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Speaker 1: What can you paint a picture for us to the audience.

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Speaker 1: What what was it like growing up?

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Speaker 4: Actually it was a real more lifestyle. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it was in a rough neighborhood, but I mean my

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Speaker 4: early teen years, I mean it was just a bigger neighborhood.

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Speaker 4: Everybody was going on and you know, trying to find themselves.

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Speaker 4: But later on, if we started getting older, then yeah,

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Speaker 4: things started changing. You know. It wasn't rough neighborhood. A

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Speaker 4: lot of gang violence around, and as the nineties started hitting,

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Speaker 4: maybe I started getting a little bit worse and worse

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Speaker 4: and worse as time went along, you know. But as myself,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I made the best of it. I graduated

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Speaker 4: from high school, I got a job right after high school.

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Speaker 4: College was informed me. I tried it for about a year,

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Speaker 4: and I think, you know what college is going to

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Speaker 4: for me? So you know, I decided, you know, I

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Speaker 4: think I've read the work and being that I was

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Speaker 4: already going to be a father at nineteen, then you know,

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Speaker 4: I knew my responsibility and.

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Speaker 1: That's and both of those things you just mentioned are

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Speaker 1: important parts of your story. Right. The fact that you

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Speaker 1: did become a father very young, and we know what

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Speaker 1: this wrongful incarceration took from you. We're going to discuss that.

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Speaker 1: But also the fact that you did start working very

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Speaker 1: young is an important thing as your story goes. Was

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Speaker 1: along because of the fact that in your alibi, what

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Speaker 1: made it so air tight, I mean, I was gonna

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Speaker 1: say bulletproof, you know, is the fact that you were

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Speaker 1: a highly skilled person who was the only person that

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Speaker 1: could operate the machinery at your job, which meant that,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's no way you could have committed this

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Speaker 1: crime fifty miles away when you were the only guy

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Speaker 1: there that knew how to do what you were doing,

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Speaker 1: and the whole factory would have shut down, right, So

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Speaker 1: the whole operation was so But let's get into that

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Speaker 1: by way of this crime, right, because it was I mean,

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Speaker 1: this sounds like it was a hit, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this was a this was a shooting. Can you can

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Speaker 1: you explain the crime itself? Obviously weren't there, but you're

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Speaker 1: super familiar with There was a guy named Aguilera right correct.

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Speaker 4: The victim his name was ricordagu I mean I ended

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Speaker 4: up seeing him when he came to the fighting court,

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Speaker 4: But other than that, I've never had seen the gentleman.

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Speaker 4: You know. It wasn't drive by shooting. It was a

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Speaker 4: game that was going on at the time. As you know,

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Speaker 4: I was forty five miles away from the incident, you know,

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Speaker 4: nowhere near it, and I was still put in a

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Speaker 4: situation where I lost ten years of my life.

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Speaker 1: Well, how did and and you were senced to twenty

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Speaker 1: five to life, which is I mean unimaginable to think

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Speaker 1: of how that must have, you know, just devastated you.

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Speaker 1: But how did your name come up in the first

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Speaker 1: place when you so obviously weren't there and you could

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Speaker 1: prove it. And who was it that first? I know

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Speaker 1: there were witnesses that identified you, but how did they

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Speaker 1: even come to bring your name up? Did you ever

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Speaker 1: find out how that happened?

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Speaker 4: Or it all started off with the picture that this

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Speaker 4: Los Angeles sheriff had on myself. The picture had took

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Speaker 4: me when I was I had just turned sixteen years

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Speaker 4: old at the time of the crime. I was twenty

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Speaker 4: five already. So they used that picture to show the

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Speaker 4: witnesses and the victim, and they all started with one

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Speaker 4: of the witnesses bid me that I resemble the shooter.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute now, first of all, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: let's go back. Let's go back for a second. So, Raphael,

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Speaker 1: you were sixteen when your picture was taken.

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Speaker 4: Great?

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Speaker 1: Was it even appropriate for that picture to still even

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Speaker 1: be in the books? Isn't that supposed to be sealed

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Speaker 1: after you turn eighteen?

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure. I don't know how exactly that works.

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Speaker 4: Is any type of law that prohabits them from using

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Speaker 4: the almost a ten year old picture?

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Speaker 1: And what was the original? Sorry? Interrupted, but why was

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Speaker 1: your picture in the book in the first place? What?

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Speaker 1: What were you picked up for when? And I don't

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Speaker 1: judge anything because I know where you grew up, as

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Speaker 1: a lot of people get picked up for a lot

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Speaker 1: of things. They do the sweeps and everything else. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we've had people talk about how they were

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Speaker 1: almost tricked into having their pictures taken and put into

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Speaker 1: the mug Shot book when they were just barely teenagers.

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Speaker 1: And it's also sort of ridiculous to point out that

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Speaker 1: you were they were using a nine year old can

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Speaker 1: imagine how much your appearance changes from sixteen to twenty five.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so why was your picture in the book

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Speaker 1: in the first place?

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Speaker 4: A picture, Like I said, it was taken when I

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Speaker 4: was sixteen, when they were in front of my house

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Speaker 4: and ganged unit ended up swooping by and everybody that

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Speaker 4: was there inside my house. They pulled us home out

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Speaker 4: and they took pictures of us and they went on

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Speaker 4: the way. Never did I imagine in my life that

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Speaker 4: that picture was coming hunt me almost ten years later.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, so you were literally doing nothing, standing around

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Speaker 1: in front of your own house and they took a

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Speaker 1: picture that ended up actually turning your life completely upside

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Speaker 1: down for the most random of reasons. And we'll get

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Speaker 1: into that too. That the fact is that we know

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Speaker 1: that there are ways to improve eyewitness identification procedures, including

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Speaker 1: the fact that I'm guessing in your case, like in

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Speaker 1: most cases, they were using six pictures on that page

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Speaker 1: in the Mugshot book. And you know, decades of research

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Speaker 1: have now proven scientifically that the human mind, if you

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Speaker 1: give it that many options, will go towards somebody that

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Speaker 1: sort of resembles a little bit. They'll start, you'll start

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Speaker 1: to make up things subconsciously that don't even that aren't

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Speaker 1: real because you see all these different pictures. So by

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Speaker 1: making the simple change of putting one picture per page,

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Speaker 1: we know that the incidents of wrongful identifications will go

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Speaker 1: down by around fifty percent. So that's the change that

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Speaker 1: we're trying to get made all over the country and

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Speaker 1: in any case. So so I mean, this is this

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Speaker 1: is an unbelievable thing. So you're now far away, have

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Speaker 1: no idea what's going on somewhere in a police station

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Speaker 1: in these Los Angeles, these witnesses, one of them randomly

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Speaker 1: picks your photo and then what happens.

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Speaker 4: And then from there, I mean, the night marriages started

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Speaker 4: from when the incident happened, I believe the incident took

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Speaker 4: please and from there after the incidet I believe, they

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Speaker 4: showed the pictures, the pictures to the nickup to the

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Speaker 4: witnesses could tell me about that to the witnesses, And

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Speaker 4: fifteen days later after the incident, that's when I got

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Speaker 4: picked up. I got picked up bunch of light the twentieth.

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Speaker 1: July to twenty so paint this picture for us place.

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Speaker 1: So you're July the twenties, where were.

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Speaker 4: You July of twenty I had just dropped off my

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Speaker 4: wife at work. I was because she went a little

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Speaker 4: bit earlier than I did. I dropped on us at work.

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Speaker 4: I was heading back home to get ready myself. And

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Speaker 4: when I was driving into I used to live in

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Speaker 4: a culvi Sec at the time. When I was driving in,

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Speaker 4: I noticed that there was a bunch of a shelf

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Speaker 4: deputy patrol cars on the side of the street and

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Speaker 4: they were all putting under gear. And uh, I see them.

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Speaker 4: I said, Oh, they're going to give somebody a rude

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Speaker 4: awakening right now. Little did I know they were going

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Speaker 4: to my house.

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Speaker 1: And you. I read an article about you in San

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Speaker 1: Francisco magazine where you were talking about how you were literally,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to quote you. You said, I was literally living

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Speaker 1: in the American dream, and then I got everything pulled

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Speaker 1: out from under my feet. You had two kids at

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Speaker 1: this point, your wife was pregnant, You had a good job, right,

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Speaker 1: so life was looking pretty pretty damn good.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I mean literally, I had we had just

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Speaker 4: thirty many years that we had boughtle in a house.

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Speaker 4: So I mean, I mean, therefore we were striving for it.

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Speaker 4: The fire own the house and we were tired of

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Speaker 4: paint where so I mean we put we put our

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Speaker 4: nesteak together and everything that we have saved up for

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Speaker 4: we eased to move. But literally we know that, I

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Speaker 4: mean this nightmare was going to start at night the

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Speaker 4: twenty year.

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Speaker 1: So you had two boys six and three and a

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Speaker 1: little girl on the way and then you get picked

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Speaker 1: up taken in for questioning. I assume, right, and explain

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Speaker 1: explain that process.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's the funny point is when I when I

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Speaker 4: see that take the sales the troll corse in the

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Speaker 4: Cola sat. I came to the stop sign and they

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Speaker 4: had a picture of me, a blown up picture that

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Speaker 4: they were going to my house with. So when I

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Speaker 4: got to the stop sign, one of the deputies that

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Speaker 4: at the picture. It happened to me. He had the

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Speaker 4: piers looking at the picture at the time when I

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Speaker 4: turned on and I looked at him, relacktizer to each other,

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Speaker 4: and he drew his weapon on me and he yelled

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Speaker 4: at me time to get off of my map. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: sure enough, they got me off the van and they

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Speaker 4: said the first one telling me all they need to

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Speaker 4: talk to you down the station. So I tell them

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Speaker 4: all of this here because they need to talk to me,

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Speaker 4: and he said, you know what, they'll explain to a

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Speaker 4: little bit more. Well, from there, they took me to

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Speaker 4: the station. They put me in a van outside of

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Speaker 4: the station and they left me there for it and

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Speaker 4: I say him, good four hours. For what reason, I'm

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Speaker 4: not sure, but I was here that for four hours.

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Speaker 4: Followers lady put me inside the Holy Pera and I

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Speaker 4: ask again, who need to talk to me? What do

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Speaker 4: we need to talk to me about? And they said, oh,

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Speaker 4: you know what, they'll talk to you. They'll talk to you.

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Speaker 4: That whole day went through, nobody came to talk to me. Uh.

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Speaker 4: Finally there was two other inmates in the cell next

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Speaker 4: to me when the detective involved in my case, can's

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Speaker 4: talk to them? And I asked them, Hey, who's going

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Speaker 4: to talk to me? And he says, you know what,

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Speaker 4: wait to turn. I'll talk to you when that time.

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Speaker 4: So I told him, I'm looking at you. You're not

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Speaker 4: gonna talk to me now. Let me know. I'm going

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Speaker 4: to bail out because I got to go to work.

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Speaker 4: And his words to me where, you know what, I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna give you some advice. Save your money because you're

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Speaker 4: gonna need it.

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Speaker 1: Who said that to you?

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Speaker 4: One of the need to take you in my case,

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Speaker 4: now you're there.

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Speaker 1: First of all, this I'm trying to process this whole

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Speaker 1: idea of sitting for four hours in a van, not

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Speaker 1: knowing what's going on, just like just left there. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's got to be a terrifying thing in

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Speaker 1: and of itself. But okay, So now finally they come

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Speaker 1: and talk to you and they tell you you're being

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Speaker 1: charged with first degree murder.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. No, actually no, they didn't come back to me.

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Speaker 4: It was into my arrangement because I got to rest

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Speaker 4: them on a Thursday morning. I got arranged on Monday morning.

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Speaker 4: The following week. When I went into my arrangement that

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Speaker 4: seemed to take they came to talk to me and

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Speaker 4: he asked me, but my co defendant, and he asked me,

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Speaker 4: when was the last thing you see him?

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Speaker 1: Right? And this is an important point because the co

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Speaker 1: defendant ultimately testifies that you were not involved. Right.

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Speaker 4: No, he didn't testify to it. What it was was

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Speaker 4: that there was a TEMP recording from the county jail.

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Speaker 4: Because me and me and my co defendant, I was

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Speaker 4: first enough to tell me who did this? I know

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Speaker 4: I have nothing to do with this. Somebody else was

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Speaker 4: with you, and he just got like very upset because

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Speaker 4: I was questioning them, and I told me, you know what,

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Speaker 4: I'm he'll be here this. I have nothing to do

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Speaker 4: with this. So me and him got into a real

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Speaker 4: big argument and we ended up being into a fight.

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Speaker 4: Two days later, his girlfriend came to visit him in

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Speaker 4: the county jail. Well, when his girlfriend came to visit him,

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Speaker 4: he had a black guy and his girlfriend started a question,

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Speaker 4: what's going on with you? What's going on with you?

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Speaker 4: And said jail. So he told us, you know what,

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna tell you. The children's that's going on. You

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Speaker 4: know what, Ralph has nothing to do with this. He's

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Speaker 4: asking around who was involved. And I told him the

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Speaker 4: spell of his business and he needs to keep this

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Speaker 4: his questions to himself and he shouldn't have nobody else

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Speaker 4: asking about this crime.

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Speaker 1: And that was that was that was said.

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Speaker 4: That yes, that was all. And originally when the tape

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Speaker 4: recording came to life, they had told my my my

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Speaker 4: attorney that it was me in the in the tamp

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Speaker 4: recording confessing to the crime. So, uh, right before travel,

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Speaker 4: he said, we got a tape recording was this confession

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Speaker 4: to the crime. We didn't use it. So when my

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Speaker 4: attorney asked me about this recording, I said, look at

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Speaker 4: Andrew's names. I understand. I said, look at from the

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Speaker 4: day that I hired you. I told you I had

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Speaker 4: nothing to do with this. I'm not going to change

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Speaker 4: up on you. I still stand one hundred percent that

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Speaker 4: I have nothing to do with this. So he teld me, Okay,

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Speaker 4: you know what, We're going to ask for an extension,

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Speaker 4: and I'm going to listen to the recordings and we'll

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Speaker 4: come back in a month. So moth later we come back,

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Speaker 4: and I asked him what happened to the recordings? I

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Speaker 4: don't know what. Don't worry about it. There's nothing that

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Speaker 4: can help you, and there's nothing in there that could

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Speaker 4: hurt you.

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Speaker 1: None of that makes any sense. So first of all,

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Speaker 1: let me backtrack. Were you out on bail or you

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Speaker 1: and were you locked up this whole time?

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Speaker 4: Well? I was locked up this whole time because originally,

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Speaker 4: when I went for my arrangement, my bill was at

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Speaker 4: thirty Kusand when I went to my arrangement, they raised

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Speaker 4: my bill from thirty kundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: To two million dollars two millions, So they didn't want

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Speaker 1: you going anywhere. And and this attorney who we know,

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Speaker 1: made a series of mistakes that are literally out age.

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Speaker 1: This is the only word I can think of to

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Speaker 1: explain the nature so many of them and so egregious

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Speaker 1: that any law student would have been able to handle

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Speaker 1: this case better than he did. Obviously, this was a

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Speaker 1: quarter pointed attorney, I'm assuming.

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Speaker 4: No, actually he was a private attorney.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So this was a private attorney. I mean, was

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Speaker 1: he Do you have any theory as to what was

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Speaker 1: wrong with him in terms of was why why was

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Speaker 1: he so ill suited for this job? Like? What was

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Speaker 1: there something going on in his personal life? Was there

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Speaker 1: some did you ever find out?

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Speaker 4: No? Actually, you know what, when when my family first

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Speaker 4: hired him, I mean he talked a real good story

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Speaker 4: to my family, said, you know what, I'm going to

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Speaker 4: get home and I'm going to prove his innocence. And

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Speaker 4: I mean he just said everything that you'll be said.

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Speaker 4: But as time was going by and postponement of post

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Speaker 4: it's like his whole demeanor just change, like you know,

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Speaker 4: like he just literally gave it up on the case.

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Speaker 4: Because he of the almost three years that I spent

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Speaker 4: in the county jail fighting this case. One time he

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00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 4: came within me. That was when when my family hired him.

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Speaker 4: After that, never again did he come and see me,

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Speaker 4: ask me questions, nothing. It was just I would only

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Speaker 4: see him and we would go to court.

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Speaker 1: He came to see you one time in three years.

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Speaker 1: And three years, Oh my god. You know, this is

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Speaker 1: so it's so outrageous, and it's amazing too.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I'm just finishing reading the amazing book by Anthony ray

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Speaker 1: Hinton called The Sun Does Shine. How I Found Life

346
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,960
Speaker 1: and Freedom on Death Throw by Anthony ray Hinton with

347
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Speaker 1: Lara lev Harden, and in it he talks about Brian Stevenson,

348
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Speaker 1: the legendary attorney who would visit him on death row

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Speaker 1: over fifteen years, like incredible in a remote prison in Alabama.

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Speaker 1: And here it is like one time in three years.

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Speaker 1: I like, I'm you know, I'm so angry at this

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Speaker 1: whole thing. It's like I can't process how that could

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Speaker 1: even be. And then in the meantime he also made

354
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Speaker 1: like mistakes that are unimaginable in terms of the idea

355
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Speaker 1: that you had a tape recording. I'm just reflecting on

356
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Speaker 1: this right, you had a tape recording with the actual

357
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Speaker 1: perpetrator saying that you his co defendant wasn't there and

358
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Speaker 1: and he he couldn't even work with that, Like he

359
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Speaker 1: couldn't even and he's telling you that the tape recording

360
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Speaker 1: doesn't matter, and then he doesn't bring it up at court,

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Speaker 1: among other things. Right, because I'm not stopping there. I

362
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Speaker 1: mean the idea that during the trial he was unable

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Speaker 1: to he did well, he wasn't unable. He didn't call

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Speaker 1: your coworker who would have testified and said that it

365
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Speaker 1: was impossible for you to have committed this crime since,

366
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Speaker 1: as I said earlier in the podcast, the whole you

367
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Speaker 1: were the only guy there that could operate the machinery,

368
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Speaker 1: and we know that the machinery was operating, and we

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Speaker 1: know that you were you were there, you were clocked in,

370
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Speaker 1: you were I mean, it's just mine how you know

371
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Speaker 1: how this could have transpired the way it did and

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Speaker 1: you lived it. So so I want to get to

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Speaker 1: this so it finally comes to the trial. It took

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Speaker 1: three years to get to trial.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, about two and a half years, which.

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Speaker 1: Is crazy in itself. And meanwhile, your kids are growing

377
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Speaker 1: up without their father, your wife is in the situation

378
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Speaker 1: of trying to figure out how to make ends meet,

379
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Speaker 1: which I know that ultimately she had to move out

380
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Speaker 1: of the house that your dream house, because I mean,

381
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Speaker 1: who can raise three kids and work a job, and

382
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,360
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, and in the meantime, she's

383
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Speaker 1: left with the task of trying to explain to the kids.

384
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Speaker 1: I'm sure they're asking, when's daddy coming home? Right, I mean,

385
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Speaker 1: it's just it's so I mean, it's so much. It's

386
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Speaker 1: just so much. So you finally come to trial, and

387
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Speaker 1: by the time you got to trial, now, I mean

388
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Speaker 1: you've got to be almost a basket case by this.

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Speaker 4: Point, I'm literally just I mean, words wouldn't even baber

390
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 4: explain it. And just the worst part about it was

391
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Speaker 4: that the doubt was there from the beginning year for

392
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Speaker 4: the prosecution. Keep in mind, I went through Ford justic attorneys.

393
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Speaker 4: It wasn't intil the fourth one that decided to take

394
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Speaker 4: you to trial. The first three came in. I mean

395
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Speaker 4: the first one, mister Dan Baker, which was the top

396
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 4: gang prosecutor in Los Angeles County at the time. He

397
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 4: came and he told my attorney at the time, you

398
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Speaker 4: know what I have an offer for him. My offer

399
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,880
Speaker 4: for him is twenty five with life. That's the only

400
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,920
Speaker 4: thing that will offer him, you know. A year later

401
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,640
Speaker 4: he leaves the case. They bring another prosecutor in from

402
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 4: another city, and he comes in the same way. You

403
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 4: know what. There's no deals, there's no deals. Finally, when

404
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 4: he's upt maybe about ten months into the case, he says,

405
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 4: you know what, I might have a deal for you.

406
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,439
Speaker 4: We'll see how that turns out. The following him, Monk,

407
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 4: he was off the case. They bought another gentleman from

408
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 4: the city of comped In. He was on the case

409
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Speaker 4: for a month. He let the case go. They finally

410
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 4: brought in This is Ramiors, Maria Ramiors, which is the

411
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 4: one that finally took me to trial, and she's the

412
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Speaker 4: one that finally convicted me, you know.

413
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Speaker 1: And my team was, yeah, Raff, where you tried If

414
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Speaker 1: it's okay if I call you Ralph. Were you tried

415
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Speaker 1: together with all of ours or separately?

416
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 4: No? Together?

417
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Speaker 1: But he didn't take the stand, and you had the

418
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Speaker 1: tape recording, But the lawyer didn't bother to tell anybody

419
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Speaker 1: about this tape recording where he was admitting that you

420
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Speaker 1: weren't there.

421
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 4: Exactly. It's like the stame recording. The prosecution is the

422
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 4: one that brought them to light, but at the end

423
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 4: nobody used them. And when we when we got our

424
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,959
Speaker 4: appeal granted, and we came to the Federal Court hall

425
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Speaker 4: and he asked mister Stein about the tape recordings. All

426
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 4: he responded was, you know what, I think my secretary

427
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 4: listened to them.

428
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: Wow, my secretary listened to them. Doesn't that say at all? Right?

429
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Speaker 1: That that is what's so nuts to me is that

430
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Speaker 1: there are that there are people in this less justice

431
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: system I call it sometimes in justice system that are

432
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: so cavalier about someone's life, because in your case, it

433
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: really was your life. I mean, twenty five to life

434
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 1: is a life sentence, Let's face it. I mean there's

435
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 1: when twenty five to life sentence. As a twenty five

436
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: year old man, you're basically looking at spending the rest

437
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: of your life behind bars. And this guy had his

438
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 1: secretary listen to the recording. Okay, that's I'm just gonna

439
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: think about this for a second. So when you went

440
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: to trial, by now you I mean, I'm assuming you

441
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: had lost faith in your attorney, had did you consider

442
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 1: it firing him? Hiring somebody else.

443
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 4: Well, I really didn't a system of what you could

444
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 4: and can do. It was my first time being in

445
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 4: a position like this. Keep in mind, I have never

446
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 4: been arrested soon, I have never been turned before. So

447
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 4: I was lost. You know, my only guidance was my attorney.

448
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: Right and you and you want to have you want

449
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: to have faith in him at this point, I'm assuming

450
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: because you need to have faith in somebody or something,

451
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: and he's your advocate, he's your champion. But when you

452
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: went to trial, did you feel like, how can I

453
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: say this? Did you feel like you were going to

454
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: be exonerated? I mean, at this point the system had

455
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 1: already you know, shown you it's its worst sides. So

456
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: but but still you knew you were innocent. So what

457
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: was your like going in to the court room finally

458
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: after all these years or two and a half years,

459
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: three years? Did you feel like you were going to

460
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 1: be exonerated? Or you were you like, oh, you know

461
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 1: they've got me and that's going to be it.

462
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 4: No, No, I I like, honestly, I never did my

463
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 4: faith in the truth. I was always under the impression

464
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 4: of one second of the trial, I'm going to be

465
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 4: able to prove my innocent. I'm going to prove it.

466
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 4: And the trial massed the two days deliberations, there's a

467
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 4: lot of it in the childhood deliberation was on four days,

468
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 4: and they kept on and they kept on coming back.

469
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 4: The jury kept on coming back to questioning my alibi.

470
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 4: So the doubt was there from the beginning. There wasn't

471
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 4: the doubt just to the jury.

472
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 2: It was.

473
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 4: It was there from the beginning, even with the prosecution.

474
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: But here's another thing. As I was reading and rereading

475
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: your story, I was thinking, you're sitting there next to

476
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 1: your lawyer. He's not calling your alibi witness. Uh, from

477
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: the I don't know what the guy's name was, from

478
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: the factory or was it a factory or or what

479
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: was the place that you were working at? What was

480
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: it called?

481
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 4: It was it was a manufacturing company.

482
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: And what was the name of the guy who never

483
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: was called that should have been called. That could have actually,

484
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: you know, absolutely without any doubt, established your your alibi

485
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 1: as being factful.

486
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 4: That was my manager, Bob Howards.

487
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: Was he in the courtroom, No, he was never in

488
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: the court room.

489
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 4: Actually he got to the court room and to my understanding,

490
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 4: by attorney told him that he was not going to

491
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 4: be called testifying, but he did show up.

492
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: Did you at any point say to your attorney, where

493
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: is Bob Howard? Why isn't he here? Why aren't you

494
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: calling him to the stand?

495
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: No, I mean I was.

496
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 4: My head was just just so lost when I kept

497
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 4: on just hearing on the prosecution kept on just making

498
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 4: me look like this animal, you know. And even when

499
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 4: the victim himself got up on the standing, they asked him,

500
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 4: do you see the person who's shout who shot you

501
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 4: here today in this court room? The gentleman said, the

502
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 4: person who shot me, he's not here. He wasn't lying,

503
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 4: he was not lying. He was saying the truth. But

504
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 4: what would make that bad was that right after he

505
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 4: got understand was that they put detected the move understand,

506
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 4: and they asked him to take to the move. Why

507
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 4: do you feel a monsieur Aguilla is saying that the

508
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 4: person who shot him is not here? So his comments were, oh, well,

509
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 4: he feels he doesn't want to be label to snitch,

510
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 4: he doesn't want to be labeled to rap, he doesn't

511
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 4: want any repercussions. But it was never that the gentleman

512
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 4: was saying the truth. The person that shot him was

513
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 4: not important.

514
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: I'm again trying to figure. I'm trying to put myself

515
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: inside the mind of the jury because even with such

516
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: even with such a I mean, inadequate is not a

517
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: strong enough word, but even with such an incompetent, disinterested,

518
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: even still with that alone, you would think that the

519
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: jury would go well, okay, I guess that's it, you know.

520
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: And obviously they thought long and hard before they finally

521
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: decided what they decided and and sentenced you to to

522
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: this this terrible uh, this terrible term in prison. So

523
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: that moment must have been the worst moment of your life.

524
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine anything worse. When the jury

525
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: came back in, did they look at you with your

526
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: family in the courtroom? Can you was it hot? Was

527
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: it cold? Do you remember? Can you paint the picture

528
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: for us of what that was like?

529
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 4: And I remember it clearly that it was yesterday, It

530
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 4: was almost days in for the jury, and I was

531
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: under the impression it was I believe a flighting. They

532
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 4: were gonna just bring us back on Monday. H the

533
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 4: bailiff called called us in from the from the holding tank.

534
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 4: Decision or what I think they came back with the

535
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 4: verdict three o'clock to me thirty in the afternoon, and

536
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 4: I remember my pums were swating so bad, and I

537
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 4: don't know if it was hot and narrow it is cold.

538
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 4: I was. I was nervous, you know, And the jury

539
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 4: came back and just hearing those words, you know, when

540
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 4: we find the defending guilty, It's like if I had

541
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 4: the world on my shoulders at the time, the world

542
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 4: just came crashing down on me.

543
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: And you can't help thinking, oh, sorry, go ahead, Ralph.

544
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 4: I mean it was just then turning along to fee

545
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 4: my family and just everybody breaking down, trying because they

546
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 4: knew the truth. I mean, nobody better than my family

547
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 4: knew the truth. And them hearing the word's Guilty's like

548
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,959
Speaker 4: they just took the air out of their ownness.

549
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: And I can't help thinking that the fact that it

550
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: was the weekend coming up and the jury didn't want

551
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: to have to come back or be I don't know

552
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: if they were sequestered, but that probably played a role

553
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: inside that room of them saying you know what, Maybe

554
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: there was one or two holdouts and they finally said,

555
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: you know what, this weekend and Monday, I gotta go

556
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: to work whatever. And so for anybody who's listening, I

557
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: always say, please, if you get called for jury duty,

558
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: first of all, show up. I know it's annoying, it's difficult,

559
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 1: it's in a position on all of our life. Show up,

560
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: serve on a jury. Pay attention, and remember that somebody

561
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: like Raphael is hanging in the balance. His whole life

562
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: is hanging in the balance. When you're sitting there, and

563
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's all of our duty to our fellow citizens,

564
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: so our fellow human beings, that we give it, you know,

565
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: all the attention that it deserves, and that we remember

566
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: that these mistakes happen as often as they do, and

567
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: you're living proof of it. So you're now convicted a

568
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: sense to twenty five years to life. The worst thing

569
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: that could possibly happen, you go to prison. I guess

570
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: I want to get to the I want to get

571
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: to the good part, right, the exoneration and what's happening now.

572
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: But if you can tell us during those see you

573
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: had been waiting almost three years for the trial, and

574
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: you were in for another almost seven in a maximum

575
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: security prison. And was that as bad as everyone is

576
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: imagining it to be. Was there anything, Was there any

577
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: bright spot in that whole time you were there? What

578
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: was the best and the worst aspect of that entire

579
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: miserable time of seven years? And then again this is

580
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: in adding because you were in for almost ten but

581
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: the seven years inside prison after you had been tried

582
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: and convicted, you.

583
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 4: Know, I could honestly say the best point of those

584
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 4: of those ten years was coming across Eric Moltop, which

585
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 4: was the attorney who originally contacted California intos budget. Mister

586
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: Motop was referred to me by my state appointed appeal attorney,

587
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 4: Laura Safer. And when Laura Seafer got my case originally

588
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 4: after I got sentenced, you know, she was very honest

589
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 4: with me. She told me the way it was, the

590
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 4: system works. She says, Looking, you got to understand where

591
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 4: state appointed appeal attorneys, they don't pay us to do

592
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 4: extra labors. They just pay us to do push PayPal

593
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 4: three days. You know. But after going through your case,

594
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 4: you're not supposed to be here. And I told him,

595
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 4: you know what, I know, I'm not supposed to be here.

596
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 4: And she went as far as tell him, but you

597
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 4: know what, You're gonna have to get a private attorney

598
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 4: to be able to help you out, and she referred

599
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,719
Speaker 4: me to this gentleman, Eric moltip out of the Valley, California.

600
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 4: And this gentleman from the beginning when he got a

601
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 4: hold of my case, he contacted me and within a

602
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 4: month a month and a half, I want to say,

603
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 4: he wrote me a letter and explained to me. He goes, look,

604
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 4: I read your case already. I don't know what you're

605
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 4: doing in prison. You know, we need to get you home.

606
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 4: And from there he got the bone rolling. He started investigating.

607
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 4: And the first thing that I call him when he

608
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 4: came to visit me, I told him, Eric, the only

609
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 4: thing I need you to do is because I have

610
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 4: never listened to the tape recordings. I asked him, please

611
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 4: listen to this tape recording to something there. It always

612
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 4: stood in the back of my mind. There has to

613
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 4: be since there and he goes, okay, you know Where'm

614
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 4: gonna listen to him? I kid you not. Maybe within

615
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 4: a month he went back to the prisoners in again

616
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 4: and he asked me, is that you and the tape recordings.

617
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 4: I said, look, Eric, I haven't listened to them. I

618
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 4: don't know what's in them. So he brought a copy

619
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 4: of tape recordings and he played it. And as soon

620
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 4: as the first work came out of the tape recording,

621
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 4: I told him that's Francisco. I recognized his voice immediately.

622
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 4: He says, are you sure? I said, look at them,

623
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 4: one hundred percent sure. That's Francisco and Waters and the

624
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 4: tape recordings. And that's what just got the ball rolling.

625
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 4: We're able to admit the tape recordings back into adment

626
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 4: because originally the prosecutions prosecution is the one that you

627
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 4: have brought them out to light, but they were never used.

628
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 4: So Eric goes, you know what, I got to get

629
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 4: this back in there, and sure enough, that was one

630
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 4: of the key things that the magistrate in the Federal

631
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 4: appeals court asked, why were these tape recorders never used

632
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 4: in his defense?

633
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: A damn good question, and that was newly discovered evidence

634
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: at that point as well, which is great. So okay,

635
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: so let's fast forward. Now. What must have been maybe

636
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: other than the of your kids or I don't know,

637
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: but it must have been the happiest day of your life,

638
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: which is the day that you were back in court.

639
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: How did you get end up getting exonerated released? And

640
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: must have been like this million pound weight has lifted

641
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: off your shoulders now, so can you explain that right?

642
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 4: Well, the flip side was that we first had a

643
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 4: file of motion for THEVID injury hearing and we got

644
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 4: that event hearing granted. So I was brought from prison

645
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 4: back down to Orange County where the evidence your here

646
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 4: was going to take place. So during that evident you're hearing,

647
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 4: we were able to call my attorney who represented me,

648
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 4: we put him on a stand, and we were able

649
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 4: to bring mister Bob Howard and put him on the stand. So,

650
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 4: I mean, all the pieces that were missing at the trial.

651
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 4: We put him in front of the federal courthouse and

652
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 4: that's what was able to bring the light. So once

653
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 4: we got mister Stein under Stein on the stand and

654
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 4: he was able to just literally deny everything that he

655
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 4: did and also put mister how I was understanding him,

656
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 4: admit you know what he was at work. I'm one

657
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 4: hundred percent positive to use at work. There's no way

658
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 4: he could have been gone. You know. That's what took

659
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 4: turn bottom. This was in October. In June of two

660
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 4: thousand and nine, my appeal was granted.

661
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: I mean, how did you feel you were you freed

662
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: from the courtroom. Explain the whole thing, because this is

663
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: my favorite part of the show, right, the good part.

664
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 4: Right. Well, the next day, all of that day, I

665
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 4: just slep all night. Literally, I slipped not one hour

666
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 4: of shod I The next morning, I'm thinking, Okay, they're

667
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 4: going to call me early in the morning. Then they're

668
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,479
Speaker 4: going to walk me out seven o'clock. He in eight o'clock.

669
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 4: Uttil finally winning the Tiputys came to the to my

670
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 4: cell and said, you know, we'll get your stuff ready.

671
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 4: I got to take you down to our which is

672
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 4: receiving a release. And he told me, oh, you're a

673
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 4: Turney is supposed to be here to pick you up

674
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 4: at eleven o'clock. But if he's not here, we have

675
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 4: to that you go those best to court order. So

676
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 4: eleven o'clock came and they walked me to the gate

677
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 4: and mister Eric Moscoup was they're waiting for me. You know,

678
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 4: it was it was an unexplainable relief happiness. I don't

679
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 4: know if it was just a bunch of emotions going

680
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 4: through me. You know, my dad just passed away eight

681
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 4: months earlier, so it was it was just a bunch

682
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 4: of things going through my mind. You know, how was

683
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 4: I going to get back into society? What was I

684
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 4: going to do? You know, it's just a million things

685
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 4: going through your mind. I get home, man, there's a

686
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 4: bunch of camera that's waiting for me, my family. I

687
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 4: mean literally, it was the best day of my life.

688
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 4: The only bad plub about it that my dad wasn't

689
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 4: there waiting for me.

690
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 1: I want to talk about something else that's really important

691
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: in your case, and I know we don't have a

692
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: lot of time left, but you were ultimately fully exonerated, conviction,

693
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: reverse charges dropped, declared, actually innocent. Is that right?

694
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 4: That's correct?

695
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: And so it's amazing Ralph, because I've been doing this

696
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: work for twenty five twenty six years now, and I

697
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: talk about it all the time, no matter where I am,

698
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: I'm always talking about it. And I tell these stories

699
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: about your case, about all these different cases that I know,

700
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: because it drives me crazy. And the first question everybody

701
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: asks me is did he get did the person to

702
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: man or woman the exonery? Did they get compensated? So

703
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: the first thing everybody wants to know. Their eyes get

704
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: real wide, they say, did the guy get I hope

705
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: they get and I have to tell them, well, it's

706
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: not what you think. And you're living proof of that,

707
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: right because you have gone through almost like another trial.

708
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: It really it is another trial, just trying to get

709
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: what's due for you. And in California the compensation statute,

710
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: and I'm working on getting it fixed. But it's so crazy.

711
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: Can you explain that a little bit? Because most people

712
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: think you get out, they send you a check. Hey man, sorry,

713
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: we've messed up your life, like, uh, you know, let

714
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: me give you a little way to get started here,

715
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, But that's not the way it is.

716
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 4: It's actually the total opposite. I mean California. And it's

717
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 4: sadly saying that California, up until recently, their whole exonerate

718
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 4: ex generation passes was never there. I mean, the gates

719
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 4: open for you, and you know, there's no apology, there's no,

720
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 4: like you said, a check waiting for you. There's nothing

721
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 4: waiting for you. It's their opening and they just kick

722
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 4: you out into the world. You know, I've been out.

723
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 4: As a matter of fact, it's been nine years. On Saturday,

724
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 4: October of sixth, it's been my nine year anniversary.

725
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: That I've been home, happy, Birthday, Happy University.

726
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 4: Thank you. Up until now, I haven't seen any type

727
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 4: of help from the State of California. I've been to

728
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 4: hearings after hearing, and every time we go with it's

729
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 4: like on the trail because you have these people on

730
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 4: the board who are more into denying you, not the compensation,

731
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 4: but the truth, denying you. They keep on denying the truth,

732
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 4: you know, for what reason, I don't know. I don't

733
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 4: know what holds them back from saying, you know what,

734
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 4: a mistake was made here, we have to fix it.

735
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 4: But up until this date, nobody, nobody in the state

736
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 4: of California have said, you know what, we've done, these

737
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 4: people wrong, we have to fix it. And I'm not

738
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 4: the only one. There's several individual Xanna Reeves that are

739
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 4: here in California where I have been compensated. They're in

740
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 4: the same situation that I'm in. They've been fighting for

741
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 4: their composition for six, seven, eight, nineteen years.

742
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 1: No I know, and I've read some of those stories

743
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: and it's really horrible, including some that have ended up

744
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: going back to prison just because they haven't been able

745
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: to support themselves. Because they're facing the same thing that

746
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: you're facing, which is they're coming out and having to

747
00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 1: tell their prospective employer that they have a conviction even

748
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: though it was overturned, and then they're either not getting

749
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: hired or getting fired from the jobs that they know

750
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: that they should have. I think as a society, we

751
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: have to open our hearts and minds, and we have

752
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: to open our companies. I talked to CEOs and other

753
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: people in positions of power that run big companies about

754
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: this all the time. I think there's a lot more

755
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: openness to this now, to this concept that we need

756
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: to give people a second chance, innocent or guilty, but

757
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: particularly if you're innocent, to get back on their feet.

758
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: And yet people like Kenneth Foley is a classic example, right,

759
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: who was convicted of armed robbery in ninety five cents

760
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 1: to twenty five years to life and exonerated two thousand

761
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: and seven, and then denied compensation and couldn't get a

762
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: job and ultimately had PTSD and all these other things

763
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: that ended up with a fifteen year cents for a

764
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 1: vehicular manslaughter because he was high on drugs or whatever

765
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: it was. I mean, it's a tragedy on top of

766
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: a tragedy. So it's amazing this Stayady's willing to pay

767
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: all this money to keep you locked up, but they're

768
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: not willing to pay anything to help you when you

769
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: get out. It's so strange. What do you and and Rob?

770
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 1: It's like to me, it seems like the people sitting

771
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: on that board their job should be to figure out

772
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: how to get you this money and how to help

773
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,959
Speaker 1: you manage it once you do get it. That would

774
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: be the job of that board. If I was running it,

775
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: I would say, Okay, let's make sure that not only

776
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: are you going to get it, but you're going to

777
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: know how to invest it. We're going to show you

778
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: how to you know, I mean because a lot of

779
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: people in your situation coming out and what you were

780
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: actually successful businessman already, but many people are not and

781
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: this is their first experience having a lump sum of money.

782
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: So how would you fix this? Because it's crazy. You're

783
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: literally having to prove your innocence again after a judge

784
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: and a jury and a prosecutor everybody else has decided

785
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: you're innocent. How would you fix the system? What do

786
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: you think it should be?

787
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 4: Well, I think the first thing off the top, it

788
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 4: makes no sense to me for you to put a

789
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 4: prosecutor on the compensation board. I mean, to me, that's

790
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 4: the number one biggest mistake they could do. You know,

791
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 4: a prosecutor to me will always be a prosecutor no

792
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 4: matter how you look at it. You know, he's never

793
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 4: going to go against other prosecutors who probably convicted you

794
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 4: and they know for a fact you were innocent. This

795
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 4: is a situation that happened in my in my, in

796
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 4: my situation. You know, mister Mike Romos, who is no

797
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 4: longer on the board, but I mean this here, Never

798
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 4: once did he even take the time to say, you

799
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 4: know what, I have an innocent individual here in suddenly,

800
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 4: what am I going to do fix this problem? Instead,

801
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 4: he was up on that seat being a prosecutor. He

802
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 4: questioned me so much in regards to what took place

803
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 4: twenty years ago, instead of focusing on, you know what,

804
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 4: we have an individual. That was the case with him.

805
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: It's important to recognize that there are thirty one states

806
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: that have compensation statues in nineteen that have none, and

807
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: even then in some of those states it's only you

808
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: have to have a DNA proof or you have to

809
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: have this or that. It's not a streamline system like

810
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: it should be. I think to me, once you're proven

811
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: innocent and you're out, there should be there's like in Texas,

812
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: there should be a very ironically, Texas has the best system.

813
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: You get eighty thousand per year for every year you

814
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: in you get an annuity, and sort of ironic that Texas,

815
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: which most people would think would have one of the

816
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: worst systems, actually has one of the best. I know

817
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: why that is. It's thanks to Rodney Ellis, who was

818
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: a state senator who passed a bill that really changed it,

819
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: turned it upside down. And we need to do the

820
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: same thing in California. And there are a lot of

821
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 1: you should know, there are a lot of good people

822
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: working on it, and I'm going to be helping to

823
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: lead this charge to fix it for you and for

824
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: everyone else like you, because it's absolutely it's disgusting in

825
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: my opinion that you are now having to fight. And

826
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 1: by the way, not only is it as you said,

827
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: it's the opposite of what it should be because on

828
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: top of everything else, you have to make time in

829
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,959
Speaker 1: your life, which you have enough obligations with three kids, work,

830
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: struggling everything else, to go and appear in all these

831
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: different hearings and everything else. It's ridiculous. There should just

832
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: be a check in the mailbox for you with your

833
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: name on it that says, hey, good luck, Sorry this

834
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: happened to you, you know, looking forward to seeing you

835
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: succeed moving forward. Hope this helped something like that, you

836
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But man, it's really I think

837
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: it's so important that you're here and talking about this

838
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: because that problem has to get fixed, and it has

839
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: to get fixed at the highest levels, right And I

840
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: think I'm going to be I'm going to be keeping

841
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: in touch with you, if it's all right, because I'm

842
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 1: going to call on you maybe to have some meetings

843
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: with some you know, people in positions of power who

844
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: can who can make these changes, because I believe if

845
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 1: if the people that make these decisions are made aware,

846
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: which is why it's so important that you're here, they're

847
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: going to want to fix this because it's it's just

848
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: it just doesn't make any sense. But I just think

849
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: people aren't really focused on it. So the more attention

850
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: we can bring, the better it's going to be, obviously

851
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: for you and everybody else. So before before we have

852
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: to wrap up, I wanted to ask you one more question.

853
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: There was actually two more questions. One question, how how

854
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: is your How are your kids doing?

855
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 4: My kids are doing great, thank god. You know. My

856
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 4: oldest Andrew, he's twenty four. He has about one more year,

857
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 4: about a year and a half left in Long Beach

858
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 4: State to complete his major. My second oldest, he just

859
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 4: gotta to accept this letter to Long be State and

860
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 4: one to chelsetate fulish and also so I mean family wise,

861
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 4: I cannot complete one bit. You know, I thank god

862
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 4: that I came out. That my wife done such a

863
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 4: great job with them in those ten years. She you know,

864
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 4: guided them in the right direction. And now these kids

865
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 4: are open and they're they're leading a good life.

866
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: It's amazing that that's really an amazing testament to them.

867
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: And like you said to your wife, because to grow

868
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: up in that situation without their dad and and to

869
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: be able to, you know, take that adversity and turn

870
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: it into we can call it triumph because it sounds

871
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: like they're they're they're knocking it out of the park.

872
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're doing amazing and that's and it's

873
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: also it's also a tribute to you. I mean, you

874
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: obviously have had a tremendously positive influence on them, so

875
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, I wish I wish you and them all

876
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: the best and everything that you deserve before we go,

877
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 1: and I know you have to run, but I always

878
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: like to end the show the same way, which is

879
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: that I like to this is I think everyone's favorite

880
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: part of the show. When I stopped talking, and I

881
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: just first of all want to thank you again for

882
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: being here taking time I'm out of your schedule to

883
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: share your story with the audience here on WRON for conviction,

884
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: and now I'm going to turn it over to you

885
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,439
Speaker 1: just for any last thoughts that you want to share

886
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: about anything. So the microphone is yours, and thank you

887
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: again for being here.

888
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,919
Speaker 4: Thank you well, I just want to take the time,

889
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 4: more than anything to thank my family and my wife,

890
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 4: my kids, my mom, my dad who was no longer

891
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 4: with me, but I mean all my thanks goes to

892
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 4: him because he was one of the ones always in

893
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 4: the front right with me fighting for this. I also

894
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 4: want to thank Justin and all of the California Indusry Project.

895
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 4: Eric Moltop. Eric Moltop was the key piece to exonerating me,

896
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 4: to getting me home, you know, and lesson, but at

897
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 4: least you know, to those prosecutors, and to take this

898
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 4: out there. You know, if you're hearing me, you know,

899
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 4: take the time to investigate your cases. Don't just look

900
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 4: for a conviction. It's not right putting people in prison

901
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 4: as if in that command, you're not only destroying their life,

902
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 4: but you're destroying many lives behind their their kids, their families,

903
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 4: I mean, their parents. It just takes a toll on

904
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,439
Speaker 4: society itself. You know, I was one of the lucky

905
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 4: ones who it only took ten years to exonerate me.

906
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 4: But there are gentlemen out there who were concentrated for

907
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 4: twenty thirty years. Thirty years later, there's not a life

908
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 4: out of here for you. You know, everything has changed.

909
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: I think that's that's a great way to wrap up.

910
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the California Innocence Project. I've

911
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: had Justin on the podcast a couple of times, I think,

912
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: and he is a huge source of inspiration for me

913
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: and everybody in the movement. Of course, right now he's

914
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: marching to Sacramento to deliver to deliver petitions for clemency

915
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: on behalf of the California twelve. And he really is

916
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: just a great, great man. And I want to encourage

917
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: everyone to go to California Innocenceproject dot org. That's California

918
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: Innocence Project dot org. Get involved, volunteer, donate, hold a fundraiser,

919
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: do a bake sale, whatever your thing is. There's too

920
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: many people in the same situation that Raphael was in

921
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: and we need to go get them out. And uh

922
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: and I will say to you now again, Raphael, and

923
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: I'll never stop fighting. There's a there's a ton of

924
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: good people who care about you and everyone else like

925
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: you out there, so I know you got to get

926
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 1: to work, so I'm not gonna hold you up anymore.

927
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: But thanks again. I'm looking forward to meeting you in

928
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: California the next time. And uh and and all my

929
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: best to you and your family. Likewise, don't forget to

930
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: give us a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts,

931
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 1: it really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the

932
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me and

933
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 1: supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future

934
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: wrongful convictions. Go to Innocent'sproject dot org to learn how

935
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our

936
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in

937
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

938
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction

939
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with

940
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: Jason Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts

941
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one