1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: I am fascinated by the origins of things, and the 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys really reimagine sports franchises and remade the NFL. 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: And wait until you hear where those Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: came from. Bert Murchison was there at the founding. His father, Clint, 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: was the first owner and visionary of the Cowboys. This 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: is an origin story you don't want to miss all 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: on this edition of the Arroyo Grande Show. Come on, 8 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: I'm Raymond Arroyo. Welcome to Arroyo Grande. Go subscribe to 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: the show. Now turn those notifications on so you know 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: what's coming. And we'd so appreciate it if you like it, 11 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: so others can enjoy the show as well, and go 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: to Raymondarroyo dot com if you'd like to support our work. 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: Now to our deep dive. They are known as America's team, 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: but the founding of the Dallas Cowboys and the construction 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: of Texas Stadium really set the path for all NFL franchises. 16 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: Clint Murchison Junior was the team's first owner and their visionary. 17 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: I sat down with his son Burke Murchison recently in 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: Dallas to talk about his Dad's vision, his book, Hole 19 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: in the roof, the Dallas Cowboys, Clint Murchison Junior and 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: the stadium that changed American sports forever, and the origins 21 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: of those famous Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders. Something incredible happens in 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven when a stripper named Bubbles Cash comes 23 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: from the upper tier of the Texas Stadium and saunters 24 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: down and she electrifies the stadium. How did that lead 25 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: to the evolution of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders. 26 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it just it was so interesting because 27 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: she she at the time, was buying to be kind 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: of the stripper in Dallas, Texas, and she was competing 29 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: with a lady named Candy Bar and so she thought 30 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: this would be a great forum to kind of show 31 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: her talent. All yeah, she kind of sashaging down. She 32 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: got the mini skirt, the leopard spotted many skirt and 33 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: uh cotton Candy and all this coming down, his hair 34 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: going everywhere, you know, big hair. It's just phenomenal. But 35 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 2: everybody in the crowd went went nuts in the stadium 36 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: immediately around her and everywhere, even to the point that 37 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: Don Merrit and and the team in the huddle suddenly 38 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: like heard all this and they just broke huddle and 39 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: looked up. See but was just simple at total distraction. Wow, 40 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: and and and and and afterwards, you know, I think 41 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: it was just kind of it showed up in the 42 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: papers and it was highly common and on and and 43 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: and then afterwards, uh, later in the week, Uh uh 44 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: tex Shram who kind of decided he has you know, 45 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: kind of had came up with all the good ideas 46 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: the Cowboys ever did. But the general manager the general manager, 47 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: but he met with Mitch Lewis, who was a pr person. 48 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: They knew a good friend of dads who did a 49 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: lot of work for the Cowboys, and they would have 50 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 2: a drink periodically together and the next time they got together, 51 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 2: Mitch said, look, this is the missing ingredient for your cheerleaders, 52 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 2: you know, because they kind of fumbled around with cheerleaders. 53 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: They used high school cheerleaders and they were just knowing 54 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: they were just nothing like you see in college. They 55 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: were just kind of ignored. And you know, we got 56 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: to do more, and so sex sells and so they 57 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: began working kind of in that direction. They added some cheerleaders, 58 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: not the current version, but they did some you know, 59 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 2: trying to find some models. But it wasn't just looks. 60 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: It was more there needed to be some kind of 61 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: like acting going on, sex appeal and the floor show. Yeah, 62 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: floor show going on, and that's what and that's what. 63 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: And then by the time in seventy three work leading 64 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: up to that, Tex realized that and I think gave 65 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: him well, he was a very bright man. He gave 66 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: it a lot of thought. He actually recruited theater uh choreographer, 67 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: choreographer from theater to head it up. And then the 68 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: process so they added the dance portion and those kind 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 2: of routines with a high kicking and oh yeah, well 70 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 2: then and then and then Tex said, well, we need 71 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 2: a uniform for these people. And it turns out he 72 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: was friends with a lady's dress owner of shop in 73 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 2: prest Royal Village which is right near in town in town, uh, 74 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: and and went to this man and goes, we need 75 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: to design it. Do you have somebody And so one 76 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: of his suppliers there was a tailor, a lady with 77 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: one of the suppliers, Paul van Wagner. Oh my gosh, 78 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: you know, and they asked he designed that classic He said, 79 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 2: he sat down her boss came to her said we need, 80 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: we need a uniform. And she took She said, she 81 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: took three hours short shorts and short shorts. What do 82 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: you call these big boots? High boots and all that 83 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: and the colors, and presented in that uniform. And and 84 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: she actually went to the Smithsonian a couple of years ago, 85 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: and I were reading your book. 86 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: I was just I was I could not believe that 87 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders really were inspired by a pair 88 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: of strippers coming down the aisle. Eventually, Okay, you learn 89 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: something new every day, that's right. Tell me, first of all, 90 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: how your dad, Clint Murkison Junior, founded America's team, the 91 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys. 92 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: How did this come to be? You know, it's that's 93 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: an interesting question. It's one I've given a lot of 94 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 2: thought to obviously, and and it just became a parent 95 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 2: that he uh, well, Number one, he was a goal setter, 96 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: and he always set goals growing up, and at some 97 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: point he must just set one. I think he became 98 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: infatuate with football. He was not a player and not 99 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: really a true athlete. He was small and and kind 100 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: of puny is you know, going through high high school 101 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: and thanks, but you know, he played intermural football and things, 102 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: and I think he just grew to love the game 103 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 2: and started with college football. And I remember growing up 104 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 2: in our family home, we'd have black and white TV 105 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: on and back then there's pre Cowboys, there being the 106 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: Chicago Bears. We fell in there kind of like region 107 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: or something and just boring asself. But Dad would always 108 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: have the game on and it was just something that 109 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: he he focused on and became something that he wanted 110 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: to act on. And he was a goal setter, which 111 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: is really incredible. And he wanted to bring the team 112 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 2: to Dallas. He wanted to think to Dallas. Yes, very 113 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: definitely have one, except you know, he was around. He 114 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 2: had moved back to Dallas with my mother and older 115 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: brother in the late forties after World War two, and 116 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 2: at that point, you know, college football was big. There's 117 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 2: dope Walker that's in cotton bowls around. And then the Texans. 118 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: There was a franchise, kind of an unknown, unheard of franchise, 119 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: the Dallas Texans. It was founded in nineteen fifty two 120 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: by a group of business people and that was a 121 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: miserable failure. They were under capitalized and didn't even make 122 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: it to the season and Bert Bell the commissioner then 123 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: that was prior to Pete Roselle, but Burt Bell's commissioner 124 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: then ended up taking over the team. They finished up 125 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 2: the season playing it away games. They ceased they ceased 126 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: playing at. 127 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: Home because they couldn't get people to turn that. 128 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: Yeah and yeah, nobody. Well, and you know that was 129 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: I mean, Dallas at that point was a high school 130 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: in college town rather than pro football. And but you 131 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: know that's all that's going on, and actually wanted to. 132 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: He bought when they for that season, he bought twenty 133 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: season tickets himself. He was probably the only one that 134 00:07:58,800 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: seems like this. 135 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: But then in the late fifties, I mean, I was 136 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: amazed as I read your book A Hole in the Roof, 137 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: which is about the building of the stadium, which I'm 138 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: going to get to in a minute. The vision he 139 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: had to bring a pro team to Dallas, and he 140 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: was obsessed with this idea. So the late fifties he 141 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: tries to launch the Cowboys, and the owner of the Redskins, this. 142 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: Is in fifty nine, is when he actually acquired the franchise. 143 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: Their opening season was in nineteen sixties. But you know, 144 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 2: behind the scenes. The acquisition of the franchise occurred in 145 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: fifty nine, and at that point there was no I 146 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: think the Redskins were the only team south of the 147 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: Mason Dixon line. And George Preston Marshall, the owner of 148 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: that team, he had bought something. They'd been in Boston. 149 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: They'd been in Boston, they moved into DC, changed the 150 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: name became the Redskins. He had a series of radio 151 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: stations that ran through the southeast and kind of towards 152 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 2: the southwest, and he decided, like everything south of the 153 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: Mason Dictionon was his his territory. Yeah, and so he 154 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: didn't want the Cowboys, and and and so he was 155 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 2: Dad was concerned. I think they I think they could 156 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: have one Veto, you know, you could have one team Veto, 157 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: but you couldn't have two. And he was concerned that 158 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 2: somehow he would get some traction and recruit another another 159 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 2: owner to vote against the expansion franchise. And so Dad 160 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: wanted to was working to you know, it took certain 161 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 2: means to convince him to come on the you know, 162 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: to vote in favor of the franchise itself. 163 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: Well, and that led to that, Yeah, let's tell people 164 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: your father. Clint Murkison does something kind of unique here. 165 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: He comes across. Was it an ex wife of the 166 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: owner of. 167 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 2: The Rich Yes, she was a silent movie star and 168 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 2: they've been married like twenty some odd years and and 169 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: and just at the timing of this, she apparently wrote 170 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: the lyrics for UH for the Redskins UH song song, 171 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: and and and Barney Breskin was the band, the band manager. 172 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: I mean this kind of entertainment, halftime entertainment, you know, 173 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: that was you know, that's what George Preston Marshall just 174 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: loved this. He loved this more about than fielding a 175 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: winning team. It was really just it was a. 176 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: Bizarre man, but he was obsessed with this song Hart song, Yeah, 177 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: and the lyrics that went with it. 178 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so what they they approached a friend of 179 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 2: dad's who was a lobbyist, Tom Webb, and somehow he 180 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: knew Barney or something. They approached him and said, look, 181 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 2: can you buy this from us? And and and she 182 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 2: joined him and so they bought the lyrics and the 183 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 2: and the song, the music for this, okay, And then 184 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 2: there was and then at some point as they were 185 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 2: meeting down in Miami for the vote and stuff, and 186 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: Dad called, uh, called George Preston Marshall and said, you know, 187 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: the beginning discussion, and it came clear during the discussion 188 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 2: that Dad owned those rights and if George wanted to 189 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 2: maintain the ownership or regain it, he's going to have 190 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 2: to vote for the Cowboys. And it was just it 191 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 2: led to it just led to kind of a sad 192 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: but funny kind of series of events that followed in 193 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: the years that followed in terms of pranks that the 194 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: dad would play with because it's just a shame. It 195 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: seemed like Marsha was just somewhat clueless. His ex wife 196 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: refair to him as the Marshal without a plan was 197 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: really I thought it was really great. 198 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: But I love that the Cowboys were basically founded from 199 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: by holding a song hostage. Yeah, I mean, that's kind 200 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: of how it happened, and without that they may never 201 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: have been. 202 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 2: It was a different time and expansion was a new 203 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 2: thing for the NFL. You know, they'd failed tenures or 204 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 2: less than ten years before in Dallas, and so there 205 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 2: was a lot on the line here. 206 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: And why were the people in Dallas, the city council, 207 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: the people, the planners, the officials. Why were they so 208 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: hostile reluctant to adopt your father's idea of not only 209 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: bringing the team to town, but more importantly, he wanted 210 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: to have an arts and sports complex downtown. 211 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: Well, they didn't like that. They didn't oppose his founding 212 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: atteam in Dallas as long as they played the Cotton Bowl. 213 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 2: And they see the Cotton Bowl. Fair Park was the 214 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: site it was built. Well, the study of pre existed that, 215 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 2: but in thirty sixth they had to buy Centennial, Texas. 216 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 2: By Centennial, it was at fair Park, which was you know, 217 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: had been around right, But a lot of things were 218 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 2: built for that, and over time, the entertainment, the museums, 219 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 2: the severalws, the art museums, the natural history museum, the 220 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 2: science museum they acquire, they all just kind of gravitated 221 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 2: down there and that became kind of the hub of cultural, 222 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 2: uh and sports activity down there. But what happened is 223 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: that over time, with the changes in movement of population stuff, 224 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 2: that it kind of died out. 225 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: But your dad did not care for the Cotton Bowl. 226 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: That's where the Dallas Cowboys had their opening seasons. 227 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 2: What was the problem. It was just an aging, out 228 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: of date thing. That had fallen disrepair, that had been 229 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: built and added to in the late forties when doak 230 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 2: Walker was such a phenomenon. They added upper decks and 231 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 2: but it was just they was never well maintained or 232 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: kept by the city. And Dad just thought, and it 233 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,599 Speaker 2: was in the area of town. It was there. It 234 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: was deficient parking within walking distance of the stateium. You 235 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: had to park in people's yards in the surrounding neighborhood, 236 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 2: all sorts of stuff. 237 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: And so your dad wanted to build a new stadium 238 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: very definitely. The place became Irving, Texas. 239 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 2: Why there, Well, he had wanted, you know, all the time. 240 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 2: When he first started, you know, this idea of acting 241 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 2: on this idea of building a stadium, he kind of 242 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 2: looked down at fair Park just to replace the cotton 243 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 2: Boat within the maybe even smaller stadium. But he was 244 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: looking down there, but mainly because he didn't think that 245 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: there was real estate affordable to place the stadium elsewhere. 246 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 2: And as he did research and as he got involved, 247 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: they were a merchant brothers. His partnership with his brother 248 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 2: was involved with some downtown buildings and whatnot, construction and 249 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: whatnot down on the western end of town. And as 250 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: he as he kind of like just you know, was 251 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 2: out there and learning more. He realized that there was 252 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 2: properties down there that were affordable that you could actually 253 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: build a stadium out. He was really an innovator. 254 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: I mean, tell us where this vision came from. What 255 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: was his concept for what became Texas Stadium. 256 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 2: Well, you know, he he was affectionists and he was 257 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 2: a visionary and it was interesting and he had this 258 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: mind in mind from the time the Cowboys were founded. 259 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: This stadium thing was in the back of his mind 260 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 2: because I know when they when he went to he 261 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: went to all the away games, and when he go 262 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: he made a point of sitting down with the crowd, 263 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 2: not in the owner's box, but he wanted to sit 264 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: down with the crowd and get a sense of the stadium, 265 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: the pros and cons of it. And he was like 266 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: building building heads in his head, building ideas as to 267 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: as to what that would work and didn't work. And 268 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: he was all about policing the spectator and providing as 269 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: great as good an experience with the spectator as possible. 270 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: Tell me how big an influence the astrodome was in 271 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: his mind. 272 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: It you know, I think it just it opened his 273 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 2: I think it opened his eyes to the possibility. He 274 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: was moving ahead with his own plans when that happened, 275 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: and there were things about it, and he saw that, uh, 276 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 2: you know that it kind of it showed that it 277 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 2: was possible. A couple of things that again it was 278 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: these were kind of in this case, it was kind 279 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: of a criticism. He didn't. He didn't. It didn't allow 280 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: because it was totally domed and covered. It didn't allow 281 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: the elements to be involved in all. He thought that 282 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: was a mistake. And he also was in favor of 283 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 2: the sole purpose, single purpose stadium football baseball. That one 284 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: has combined it and they had to move stands around. Yeah, 285 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,359 Speaker 2: and and and when you do that, you get compromised 286 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: in terms of your seating and the experience of the spectator. 287 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: Why the hole in the roof which became the defining 288 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: mark of the technology. 289 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: That was allowed the elements to be involved. And I 290 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: think bottom line, I think deep down he wanted that 291 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 2: like natural grass on the field, and he could they 292 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: couldn't didn't do it. They didn't. You know, I don't 293 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: know if you realize, but in Phoenix they had natural grass, 294 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: but they actually moved the whole field outside the dome 295 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: grow yes, when the games aren't playing, and then they 296 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: move it back in. I did not. It is bizarre, 297 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: and they spent a ton of money doing that. So 298 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: he didn't go to that extreme. And so they did 299 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 2: have natural turf. 300 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: But but the luxury suites, the sponsorships, all of that 301 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: is your father, Clint Murkison's innovation. 302 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the way it was financed, that's very interesting 303 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 2: because he when he first, you know, he got he 304 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: was shunned by Dallas and he knew that he always 305 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: held out hope that he would be able to do 306 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 2: a downtown stadium, and he just you know, he optioned, 307 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: even optioned fifty acres of property down on the west 308 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of the southwestern sector of Dallas, 309 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 2: in order to as a starting point for all this 310 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So he did that, but he knew 311 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 2: he needed to have an option and so he reached out. 312 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: He kind of looked at Arlington, which is where AT 313 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: and T Stadium is now located, and Dallas was a 314 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 2: different place that was for worth a different places. And 315 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: he says, I just can't ask my fans to come 316 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 2: to drop all the way out the way for that 317 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 2: because there was a stadium out there or there was 318 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 2: property available, and so it was through a friend, Max Thomas, 319 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: who was a Dallas business guy. It was a friend 320 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: of Ads but was from Irving And it was Max 321 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: and some other locals that actually introduced Dad to the city, 322 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 2: to the mayor out there, Lynn Brown, it was his name. 323 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: He was an incumbent mayor five terms or something, and 324 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 2: that's a story, but it was it was. Max also 325 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 2: helped him locate the property that there was eighty five 326 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 2: acre tear drop shape property that Dad ended up identifying 327 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 2: and optioning and ultimately purchasing. 328 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 1: Tell me how Texas Stadium really becomes the prototype for 329 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: all the NFL stadiums we've seen since then. 330 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 2: Well, you just look at where it's located, it said, 331 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 2: they call it it's like a influence of three freeways, 332 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: and its surrounded. There's there's plenty of parking. Uh, there's 333 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: plenty of parking. Uh. It's very successible, you know. It 334 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 2: just then in terms of the experience, So that parking 335 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 2: was a big deal because that was a problem right 336 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 2: here at the Cotton Bowls. He really focused on parking 337 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 2: and in terms of the stadium, you know, he wanted 338 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 2: to do chairback seats because we had out here at benches, 339 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 2: benches out here, uh at at at the cotton Bowl. 340 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: So everything he was trying to counter with the Cotton 341 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 2: Bowl and make it even more appealing to the fan 342 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: in terms of their acceptance. 343 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: And the corporate sponsorship. I mean he coined this idea 344 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: of attaching corporate sponsorship. 345 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: Well that was at sea, that came. That came later 346 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 2: a little bit. I think the sponsored I think what 347 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 2: you may be thinking about are the circle suites of 348 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: the tree suite. There were two levels of those that 349 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 2: that there had been in certain cases in other stadiums 350 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: there there was a suite or two, but nothing on 351 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 2: a commercial scale. And he actually had two levels between 352 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 2: the top and bottom decks, two levels, one hundred seventy 353 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 2: eight suites priced that and he was ended up. He 354 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,719 Speaker 2: didn't know how to price these things. Nobody knew what 355 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: people do, but he priced at fifty thousand unfinished shell space, 356 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 2: and so people would buy them and then come in 357 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: with their decorator and finish him out as well. So 358 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 2: you had one hundred and seventy eight different designs. It 359 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: was fascinating, and there was one like incredible to a 360 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: photo was in the book It's a lowis the fourteenth 361 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 2: solid if you saw that, I wish chandeliers law. We 362 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 2: were hopefully to dode in cover color. But he had 363 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 2: like blue dark blue carpeting and stuff. I mean, it 364 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: was it was outrageous, but I mean it was that 365 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 2: the kind of creatative he saw and it it just 366 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 2: he caught people's imagination and it took the whole experience 367 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 2: to another level. 368 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: How did he find Tom Landry? 369 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: That's that's interesting because his first hire was Text Ramp, 370 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 2: the general manager right who came out of the Los 371 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 2: Angeles RAM organization, and he had had done it. He 372 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 2: had to help George Hollis of the Chicago Bears very 373 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 2: helpful to him. He had helped him identify tex RAM 374 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 2: and then and then Text basically in his own mind. 375 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 2: He had hired and worked with Sid Gilman, who was 376 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 2: another coach who went on after the the new League 377 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: came into being, the AFL came into being, went on 378 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 2: to coach Santa Chargers. Very good coach, experienced coach, had 379 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 2: coached Rams and the Chargers. But but Dad, he got 380 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: word through from friends that you know Alicia Landry text 381 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 2: of Tom's wife lived was from Dallas and they would 382 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: come back. He coached in their season up for New York. 383 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 2: He was a player player coach and then defensive coach, 384 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: and so he was, you know, highly recommended. And it 385 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 2: was really Dad that really, uh you know, came is 386 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 2: the one that made that selection as opposed to tax 387 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 2: and that's some Tech kind of did everything or took 388 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 2: took credit for everything. But in this case, Dad, it 389 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 2: was It was interesting because I think, uh, he had 390 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: I mean, Tom Landry was a genius and Dad had 391 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 2: a ton of respect for him. And but there they 392 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 2: kind of thought the same because Tom and his on 393 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 2: the off undergraduate wise had gotten a degree in chemical engineering. 394 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 2: Dad was an electoral engineer by education, and so they 395 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 2: kind of like thought the same. And that's a that's 396 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 2: a that's a statement, that observation that Joe Bailey, who 397 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: worked for text Ram kind of made. He's still living 398 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 2: and we've talked about it, but it's really fascinating, I think, 399 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 2: and it was really Dad that caused text you know 400 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 2: that they worked together and Dad, you know, they ended 401 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 2: up hiring Landry as a coach, and that's it's pretty incredible. 402 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: Tell me tell me about from sixty six, for the 403 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: next twenty years the Dallas Cowboys have winning seasons in 404 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: that Texas stadium. What was the magic there? 405 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 2: Well, it's just everything came together, you know. I mean 406 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: Tom Landrew was on a had a player, it's like 407 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 2: a five year player, and he didn't quite meet that 408 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 2: because I think they ended up they were set back. 409 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 2: One of the setbacks is in the first year, they 410 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 2: didn't weren't able to participate in the draft, and so 411 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: they were just you know, they were signing a few 412 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 2: free agents like doubt Don Meredith, and there was a 413 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 2: running back, good running back, Don Perkinson, so they had that, 414 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 2: but they didn't and so it kind of set him back. 415 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 2: But by sixty six is when they won and they 416 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 2: played the Green Bay Great green Bay Packers in the 417 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: Cotton Bowl in a fabulous game, one of the best 418 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: games they ever been to nineteen and it was pre Berger. 419 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: So it was like, what's interesting also is that is 420 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: that had we won that game, so we beat Let's see, 421 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 2: we lost the green Bay. Green Bay went on and 422 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 2: played the Kansas City Chiefs in the in the first 423 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,719 Speaker 2: but had we won that, we would have been in 424 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 2: that vers and we would have been matched up against 425 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 2: the Dallas Texans who were founded that the same year 426 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: the Calier were, and we competed. Dad and the team 427 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 2: competed not on the field, but it commercially for three 428 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 2: or four years before before Lamar Harnt decided to move 429 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 2: into Kansas City. But we would have played them in 430 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 2: the first of It has just been a phenomenal thing. 431 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,479 Speaker 2: And also if you think about it, had we we 432 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 2: lost that game, just we should have won that game. Frankly, 433 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 2: the next year it was the Ice Bowl in Rain Bay. 434 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 2: We should have won that game. Lost, But had we 435 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 2: won those two, those two championship games, it would probably 436 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: be the Landry Trophy rather than the Lombardi Trophy. Wow, 437 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 2: I mean you think of that. I mean things turned 438 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 2: on just two games in terms of that, because Landry's 439 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 2: success from starting at sixty six through the time Dad 440 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 2: sold the team after the eighty three season, that's I 441 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 2: think that's eighteen years winning record playoffs every year, five 442 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 2: Super Bowls, uh and two and two victories and it's 443 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 2: Super Bowls incredible in that period of time. I mean, 444 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: it's just unbelievable. 445 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: Has your father's vision, I mean, your dad coined and 446 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: created what we know of now as the modern day 447 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: NFL stadium. Has his vision been perverted in your mind? 448 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 2: Well, I think a little bit. It just depends on 449 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 2: what these owners owners want, and and and I don't 450 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 2: recall when you know they were Jerry Jones, rather than 451 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: renovate and do things at Texas Stadium, he chose to 452 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 2: move them to a new venue. He wanted to start over. 453 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 2: His vision was entirely different. And Dad was all about 454 00:25:54,280 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 2: the experience of the spectator, sidelines, access comfort, all that 455 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 2: kind of Jerry Jones. His his mantra was more and 456 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: he actually had a T shirt out is Bigger is Better. 457 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: So they had the outline of AT and T Stadium 458 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: over over reaching the outline of Texas Stadium, on the 459 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 2: on the traffics, on the hurt stuff, and really, I 460 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 2: mean and so he's all I mean. And what he's 461 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 2: what he's always you know, kind of commented on, is 462 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: he's all about the money. And he ended up with 463 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: eighty you know, a studying with eighty thousand capacity of 464 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: eighty thousand spectators seated another twenty there standing room for 465 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: another twenty and and it just it was just a 466 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: different priority really and and Dad was about the experience. 467 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 2: Jones was more about just packings mean people. We can't 468 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 2: end there. 469 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: When Jerry Jones bought the team, he bought the lease 470 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: to the Texas Stadium, and people laughed at him. 471 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 2: Why was that a good idea? It was a good 472 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 2: idea because they had a profit potential that he identified 473 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: and people didn't realized that that that But what it 474 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: took is that the need what you were able in 475 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 2: order to uh uh you know, make that take advantage 476 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: of that, you had to have a winning team. You 477 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 2: had to pull people in and and Jimmy Johnson was 478 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: able to turn that that team around with this a 479 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: matter of like three years. They were they went to 480 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 2: the back to the super Bowl, and the excitement that 481 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: caused in the community and the and it's just a 482 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 2: surge of interest in buying the tech. It's just a 483 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: long story. But then they were able to take advantage 484 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 2: to add new suites, sell these commercials, sell these luxury suites, 485 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 2: and and it just ended up being just a you know, 486 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 2: the the commercial success followed the success on the on 487 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 2: the on the fields. 488 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: When they when the Texas Stadium finally came down, they 489 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 1: tore it down, there were three buttresses still standing. 490 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 2: What did that mean to you? Oh, that's interesting. You 491 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 2: know people have had said they had different ideas about that. 492 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: Somebody said they kind of symbolized what Landry Shrem and 493 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 2: Gil Brandt maybe or something or Dad. I don't know, 494 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,719 Speaker 2: they're just you know, but it was it was you know, 495 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: that was an emotional day, but it was you know, 496 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 2: it's something that that And what's interesting there is is 497 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 2: that occurred in twenty ten after the Cowboys had moved 498 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 2: to AT and T a year later in the spring 499 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 2: a year later. But that had been negotiated way back 500 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 2: in early two thousands when the Cowboys had made a 501 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 2: decision that they were going to leave Texas Stadium and 502 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 2: relocate in Arlington. And that was something that came down 503 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: between a negotiation between Herbert Gears, the mayor at the 504 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 2: time of Herba, and Jerry Jones. And he, you know, 505 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 2: Jones's big negotiating point was he wanted the stadium torn down, 506 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 2: demolish because he moving to the new stadium. He didn't 507 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 2: want any competition for college games, high school, non cowboy stuff. 508 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 2: He wanted it all there. So he made and you know, 509 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 2: Irving got things in return monetarily and stuff that they 510 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: negotiated for but ended up so that decision happened almost 511 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 2: you know, way before, to move itself in the to 512 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 2: the new stadium. 513 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: Well, they've had a string of bad luck though since 514 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: they moved to that new house. Maybe they should have 515 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: stayed in Texas Stadium a little longer. I mean, the 516 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: good luck charm is clearly there. 517 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 2: I mean, well so much, you know, I mean, it's 518 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: just you know, it's management style and things, and I 519 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 2: don't know how much you want to get into that. 520 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 2: But dad, Dad was a hands off kind of guy. 521 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 2: You know. He hired the people, He hired the best 522 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 2: and let them tell let them run it, and just stood. 523 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: But he was in Texas at some point referred to 524 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: him as the glue that kept our operation organization together, 525 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 2: which is true because he was always there to do 526 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 2: to support him and back them up when they when 527 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 2: they were challenged for one reason another. 528 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: What did your dad have that you don't see in 529 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: these NFL franchises today? And what do you think he'd 530 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,479 Speaker 1: think watching this, seeing this and the way that his 531 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: team has evolved. 532 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 2: Oh he would. He remained a cowboyd fan throughout I 533 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 2: mean after he's old. I remember going back he was 534 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: in bad chet physically and whatnot health was. But I 535 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 2: remember going visiting him in his he had kind of 536 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 2: a sitting room where office sitting room we watch and said, 537 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 2: and he'd watch all the games, he'd be there and 538 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 2: and I don't know, I think I think there would 539 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: be he was. So I'm sure he's proud about what 540 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 2: he did. He was proud about the honor Wroughte, the 541 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 2: Dallas turning the team around and not turning the team 542 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: were getting established and making a winner and said, so, 543 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: I guess, I mean, it'd be hard to say. I 544 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 2: would assume he'd be disappointed. And why, Well, I mean, 545 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: I just think there's a I think if if you know, 546 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 2: you can follow his model and if you find the 547 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 2: right people, I think he can bring the stability that 548 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: you can find success and and uh, and I think 549 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 2: they just kind of you know, gotten off the path 550 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,479 Speaker 2: kind of and and and really the model that Jones 551 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 2: is Jerry Jones uses now in terms of the you know, 552 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 2: owner management coach is more like it's an outmoded model 553 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 2: that the last person UH to use it was at 554 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 2: UH at Oakland. He was the owner GM of the 555 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 2: Al Davis And when when Jones was just first getting started, 556 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 2: Owl was still around and Jones really they they bonded 557 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: and I think he picked up a lot of his 558 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,959 Speaker 2: somehow he appreciated his philosophy and wanted to kind of 559 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 2: like he became a little bit his his role model 560 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 2: very hands on, very hands on, and and uh, you know, 561 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 2: to to an excess, and particularly when you it just 562 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 2: got so complicated. I mean when you look at managing 563 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 2: anything and stuff particularly and there's so much competition, you 564 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: got to be And Jones is a really bright guy, 565 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 2: but I mean it's just I think you need to 566 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: find people with specialized talent and it trusts them to 567 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 2: do their job, trust them, and he just he just 568 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 2: kind of has floundered there. And I'm not sure why 569 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 2: it's a tragedy that has occurred. 570 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: There's something I ask every guest on a Royal Grande. 571 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: I have a questionnaire, rapid fire questions. You don't have 572 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: to think deeply about these. Who's the person you most. 573 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 2: Admire My wife? Why? Oh, she's solids raw And I 574 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 2: would agree with that. I know his wife at least 575 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 2: is fantastic. 576 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: Who's the person you most detest. 577 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, there's a satan. Well, I guess I 578 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: guess that counts. 579 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: What's your best feature? 580 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 2: My best feature? I think that a pretty good sense. 581 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 2: You do have a good sense of humor. What do 582 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 2: you fear? I just fear change with respect to our 583 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 2: country and the civility of our country and what the 584 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 2: world that's being introduced to our children, grandchildren, children and grandchildren. 585 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: What is the thing you know that no one else does. 586 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 2: That I know? Oh? I think maybe probably just internally 587 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 2: like the uh uh like like like a lack of 588 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 2: self confidence. Mm hmm. Wow. What's the best advice you 589 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 2: ever received? Oh, there's one that comes out of this uh. 590 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 2: I didn't use it in the book that I've learned 591 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 2: it since. And that's in terms of goal setting and 592 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 2: a plan. A plan without a goal, without a plan 593 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 2: is just to dream. Mmm. So boy, is that true? 594 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: If you could not do what you're doing now, what 595 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: would you do? 596 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 2: Oh, what I'm doing now, I'd be on the beach. No, 597 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 2: I'd be I'd love I love fishing. I love the Bahamas. 598 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 2: We talked about the Bahamas. Yah. I love fishing, just 599 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 2: being out in the water with the people. What happens 600 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 2: when this is over. What's this now? 601 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: Well, whatever you want it to be, could be this interview, 602 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: could be this life. 603 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 2: I don't know, that's up to you. Well, you know, 604 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 2: hopefully end up with our Lord and says her Savior, 605 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. That's a perfect answer. Yeah, thank you, thank 606 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,760 Speaker 2: you so much. Yeah, thank you. 607 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: Okay, here's the hole. I love how Burke's dad, Clint Murchison, 608 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: he was undeterred and trying to establish his team in Dallas. 609 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: He tried to buy franchises in other cities, but none 610 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: of them would sell. So the decisive moment was now, 611 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: I hope you picked up on it. It was his 612 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: his decision to buy the Washington Redskins fight Song, which 613 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: he basically held as a ransom against George Preston Marshall, 614 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: the owner of the Redskins. Sometimes to get what you need, 615 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: you have to consider what your competitor values. Most smart move, Clint, 616 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: and it's the reason why the Cowboys, by the way, 617 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: ended up having the team in Dallas. But did you 618 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: know they were almost called the Dallas Steers. At the 619 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: last minute, Murchison changed the name to the Dallas Cowboys. 620 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: He's up for consideration to be included in the Football 621 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. How Clint Murchison has been overlooked all 622 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: this time as a mystery to me. Let's hope they 623 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: fix it this year. 624 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 2: We'll keep you posted. 625 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back to a Royal Grande soon. 626 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: Why live a dry, constricted life when if you fill 627 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: it with good things it can flow into a broad, 628 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: driving Arroyo Grande. 629 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 2: I'm raming to Royo. 630 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe like this episode, Thanks for diving in, 631 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time. Royo Grande produced in 632 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeart Podcasts and DP Studios, and is available 633 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.