Speaker 1: Hey, ba fam, It's Mandy Money, and I'm really excited
Speaker 1: to share today's episode with you. I know Friday's usually
Speaker 1: the day when we do our ba qa's, but this
Speaker 1: coming week of April, it starts today, actually kicks off
Speaker 1: Black Maternal Health Week in the US. Y'all have probably
Speaker 1: read the same articles I have read, watched the same
Speaker 1: disturbing news videos that share experiences of deep trauma with
Speaker 1: life altering and in some cases, life ending consequences for
Speaker 1: women of color in this country. You don't need me
Speaker 1: to tell you that I'm right here with you. I
Speaker 1: feel the same pain you do encountering these types of stories.
Speaker 1: And at Brown Ambition, what are we here to do.
Speaker 1: We are here to acknowledge and accept the reality of
Speaker 1: what it's like to live in this brown skin, to
Speaker 1: have ambition in this brown skin, to have families in
Speaker 1: this brown skin. But we are also here to share
Speaker 1: stories about how we are overcoming and how we are
Speaker 1: creating safe spaces for one another. And I have the
Speaker 1: incredible opportunity to sit at the same dinner table with
Speaker 1: this woman. Her name is Latham Thomas. Not only is
Speaker 1: she exquisite and ethereal earth, Mama goddess. She has also
Speaker 1: helped bring into the world so many A Lists celebrity babies. Now,
Speaker 1: I know all babies are A Listers, right, especially mine
Speaker 1: and especially any brown ambition babies we have out there.
Speaker 1: But Latham has been by the side of celebrities like
Speaker 1: Anne Hathaway, Alicia Keys, Ashley Graham. She is at the
Speaker 1: top of her game and she was at a position
Speaker 1: where she could create a business out of just helping
Speaker 1: celebrities have these gorgeous humans and bring them into the
Speaker 1: world a couple times a year. But of course, because
Speaker 1: black women are everything, Latham turned around and said, I
Speaker 1: could be one incredible doula, but what if I train
Speaker 1: generations to come in the incredible work of being a
Speaker 1: doula and helping bring these babies home and give them
Speaker 1: an incredible birthing experience for their parents. And she launched
Speaker 1: Mama Glow, which we're going to talk about today on
Speaker 1: the podcast. She'll tell you how her own birthing experience
Speaker 1: in New York City and the early two thousands drove
Speaker 1: her and gave her this call to action. She's also
Speaker 1: going to answer my dumb questions about what is the
Speaker 1: difference between a doula and a midwife, and who makes
Speaker 1: a good candidate for having a doula and a midwife
Speaker 1: or having a home birth or a hospital birth. We'll
Speaker 1: also get a little bit because it is Brown ambition, right,
Speaker 1: we're here to talk about money, honey. We'll get a
Speaker 1: little bit into the business strategies that have served Latham
Speaker 1: well as she has had to pivot and take her
Speaker 1: business from being fully in person trainings to online of
Speaker 1: course during the pandemic, and we'll talk about how that
Speaker 1: actually ended up being really beneficial for her business, that
Speaker 1: she was able to pivot in that way. Now, if
Speaker 1: y'all want to find out more about Mama Glow, if
Speaker 1: you're thinking about getting trained as a doula through one
Speaker 1: of their programs, you can head to the show notes Snap.
Speaker 1: Whether you decide to become a parent or not, or
Speaker 1: help bring life into the world in this way or not,
Speaker 1: this is an episode where we can appreciate the beauty
Speaker 1: of this really sacred moment in a person's life and
Speaker 1: in a child's life. So thank y'all again for listening.
Speaker 1: This is Nandy Money and here's my conversation with Latham Thomas.
Speaker 1: All Right, v A fam I am genuinely just very thrilled.
Speaker 1: I know I say that every time, but I have
Speaker 1: wanted to get to know this woman better ever since
Speaker 1: I happened to meet her at Afrotech in Houston. I
Speaker 1: found out we both live in New York, very different
Speaker 1: versions of New York, but still the same state. We'll say.
Speaker 1: I have Laitham Thomas on the show today, y'all, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if we have enough time for me
Speaker 1: to read her entire bio, but I'm gonna read a
Speaker 1: little bit of it because I need to put some
Speaker 1: respect on your name, okay. Latham is the founder of
Speaker 1: Mama Glow, advancing reproductive justice and birth equity through education, advocacy,
Speaker 1: the arts, research scholarship. But it also she trains doulas, y'all,
Speaker 1: trains doulas across the country, across the world, really in
Speaker 1: different continents. And beyond the business that she has created,
Speaker 1: Latham is also a distinguished women's health expert, black maternal
Speaker 1: health advocate, entrepreneur, one of Oprah's SuperSoul one hundred, which
Speaker 1: is I don't know. If I were I would just
Speaker 1: wear that on my neck every day. I would just
Speaker 1: have that like hang on like a chain, just like
Speaker 1: Oprah said my name out loud in her Super Soul
Speaker 1: one hundred. Now, the global community for Mama Glow is
Speaker 1: over three thousand. Mama Glow trained doulas across the USA
Speaker 1: six continents. And what I love so much is that
Speaker 1: you're not just you know, I think about doulas and
Speaker 1: I think about the birthing experience, but she y'all don't
Speaker 1: just cover that. You cover the fertility period, the pregnancy, birth,
Speaker 1: and postpartum offering handholding through bespoke doula services, and you
Speaker 1: also work through hospitals through insurance companies, So you are
Speaker 1: not just like for me, it's not just that you
Speaker 1: care about black maternal health, but you know how to
Speaker 1: work the system to get the resources to the people
Speaker 1: that need them the most. And so welcome lay them
Speaker 1: to the brand and vision podcast.
Speaker 2: Much Mandy, It's such a pleasure and honor to be here.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you. I also fell in love fast
Speaker 2: friends you know, we met, and so I'm just grateful.
Speaker 2: Mama Goo is a global maternal health and education platform,
Speaker 2: but really the goal is training doulas, nurse care managers
Speaker 2: and providing doula matching services to families, hospital systems designing
Speaker 2: doula benefits. And then really, you know, as we think
Speaker 2: about it as not your anewer, which many people are
Speaker 2: who do this work, we want doulos to thrive, and
Speaker 2: so we also help to ensure that people get paid
Speaker 2: and paid well for the work that they're doing and
Speaker 2: ensure that we can make impact. And so like as
Speaker 2: you said, the three thousand dulas that we've trained, are
Speaker 2: you active in the world and been doing work. They
Speaker 2: work with us because we have also a platform where
Speaker 2: we can match do thos with families, but then they
Speaker 2: also work out in the world and have their own businesses, right,
Speaker 2: and so one of those really become a really powerful
Speaker 2: platform for expanding opportunity. But then also the Foundation has
Speaker 2: been a really wonderful opportunity for us to advance research
Speaker 2: and scholarship as well as DOLA matching services for families
Speaker 2: that are in need. And so we actually provide pro
Speaker 2: bono doula services across the country and in New York
Speaker 2: City we're the largest provider of pro bono doula services
Speaker 2: for families in need. And so if you need a
Speaker 2: doula and you're in the city of New York. You're
Speaker 2: likely getting a doulah through Momo Glow if you're Medicaid eligible,
Speaker 2: and so we're really excited to be able to offer
Speaker 2: that as well. Yeah, I'm so proud of the work
Speaker 2: that we do daily. But also I always had a
Speaker 2: dream of being able to do that, right, Like, I've
Speaker 2: had people reach out to me, some people reach out
Speaker 2: to me on social or friends reach out and they're like, hey,
Speaker 2: I have someone in my family who needs a service.
Speaker 2: And because typically people would pay for this service, right,
Speaker 2: you know, and it can be thousands, right depending on
Speaker 2: how you won. Yeah, typically thousands of dollars. And so
Speaker 2: to be able to say, like I asked, you know,
Speaker 2: can they afford it? Or you know, what's their position
Speaker 2: they're in, and they'll say yeah, you know, they're not
Speaker 2: really the position. I'm like, okay, great, have them thought
Speaker 2: this form and we can provide a doula. And so
Speaker 2: just being able to do that and have a system
Speaker 2: in place and have funding to cover it and then
Speaker 2: sure that the dulos are paid well, is you know,
Speaker 2: really a dream.
Speaker 1: But I have to start with a basic question. Sure,
Speaker 1: how did you start Mama Glow, Where did it come from?
Speaker 1: What were you doing before? And then when did it?
Speaker 1: When did it become what it is today?
Speaker 2: Is so I I started Mama Glow after my son
Speaker 2: was born. I was living in New York City, which
Speaker 2: I never really left, and I was a new mother,
Speaker 2: and I had noticed along the pregnancy continuum that it
Speaker 2: was really just challenging to navigate the care system here. Thankfully,
Speaker 2: I connected with midwives, and so my son was born
Speaker 2: in a birth center on Fourteenth Street, and I had
Speaker 2: this amazing experience of feeling supported and just really like
Speaker 2: everything I needed was there, Like the midwives, you know,
Speaker 2: supported my autonomy, respected me in the in the practice
Speaker 2: of delivering my son, and I had this like incredible
Speaker 2: out of body spiritual experience that sort of led to
Speaker 2: this vision, but also the sacred mandate and what I've
Speaker 2: been really referring to as a calling, you know, to
Speaker 2: do this work. And so my son's twenty one now,
Speaker 2: So this is like twenty two years ago right that
Speaker 2: I feel this inside of me surfacing, And so it
Speaker 2: was really a matter of like, well, how do I
Speaker 2: go about it? And I didn't have the business skills
Speaker 2: or acumen, but I did have like a high business
Speaker 2: IQ and what I mean by that is a lot
Speaker 2: of us who you know, have the tenacity and the
Speaker 2: sort of interest, but also the healthy dose of naivete
Speaker 2: who will like go for something you know, can start things.
Speaker 2: And I also have a stubborn quality being a tourist.
Speaker 2: I don't quit stuff, and so if I start something,
Speaker 2: I never quit.
Speaker 3: I'm like a hippie.
Speaker 2: So I was like, I want to have it at
Speaker 2: home or I want to have it like I knew that.
Speaker 2: So I couldn't have it at my my son's father's house.
Speaker 2: His apartment was too small. I didn't want to do
Speaker 2: it there. So I was like, I want to find
Speaker 2: a place where you know I can do it.
Speaker 3: But I did go to.
Speaker 2: I won't say their name, but I did you know
Speaker 2: before I found the birth center, I was supposed to
Speaker 2: deliver in a hospital. And then I went to the
Speaker 2: meetings and I was like, uh uh, I'm not something
Speaker 2: they right, And I didn't even I didn't even really
Speaker 2: question it. Once I had the feeling that this doesn't work,
Speaker 2: I was like, we're moving forward and finding something new
Speaker 2: that feels right, and this is me as like at
Speaker 2: like twenty three right, I'm like somethingday right in the milk.
Speaker 3: Let's figure it out.
Speaker 2: And then so I found this birth center because we
Speaker 2: were walking back and forth and because I knew it
Speaker 2: from night life, I just would pass by it all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: And we were like, let's go in.
Speaker 2: And we went in and we had a great conversation
Speaker 2: with the staff and they said, come in for like
Speaker 2: an open house kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Find out that they took my insurance. And here's another thing.
Speaker 2: I didn't go there at first because I didn't think
Speaker 2: I belonged, right. I didn't think that me as a
Speaker 2: person who was basically underinsured because I was fresh out
Speaker 2: of college. So my insurance ended a year after I
Speaker 2: finished college. So by the time I was pregnant with
Speaker 2: my son, like, I didn't have insurance coverage, right, and
Speaker 2: so so then I was able to get on Medicaid
Speaker 2: and they were like, yes, we take Medicaid. And so
Speaker 2: my copays were like five dollars. My son costs six
Speaker 2: dollars to take home. He was like a bargain baby deal. Okay,
Speaker 2: my goodness, it was six dollars.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Right, So this is the coverage that I got, and
Speaker 2: it was amazing because again, you know, everyone treated me
Speaker 2: with autonomy, with respect with love. They didn't say, oh,
Speaker 2: this is this type of patient, you know, because we
Speaker 2: understand that good insurance to medicaid there is a gradient
Speaker 2: in terms of what you expect in terms of service
Speaker 2: and what you had set in terms of you know,
Speaker 2: people's attitude towards you. And if you have private insurance,
Speaker 2: people expect to be treated well, and if you're on
Speaker 2: you know, medicaid, people expect to be treated poorly and
Speaker 2: also have poor access to care and even like you know,
Speaker 2: their you know, like testing and diagnostics and things like
Speaker 2: that you get locked out of because of insurance apartheid.
Speaker 2: And so I was so fortunate right to have this
Speaker 2: experience at a younger age, and I think, you know,
Speaker 2: I knew inside it was something inside of me that
Speaker 2: knew I wanted to do it this way. And I'm
Speaker 2: thankful that at the time I had the support of
Speaker 2: my son's father and I had this sort of internal compass,
Speaker 2: right that kind of guided me in the direction of
Speaker 2: doing it. But also I think God had a plan
Speaker 2: of like, you need to have this experience, you need
Speaker 2: to be able to sort of use this. This is
Speaker 2: the origin story for what you're going to give rise to, right,
Speaker 2: and so I needed to have this to kind of
Speaker 2: have a trajectory of working in women's health, laying the foundation,
Speaker 2: laying the bricks right for what will become. Mama glow
Speaker 2: down the line. And I think for me, you know,
Speaker 2: that experience and then the shift from working as an
Speaker 2: individual because I did have that calling to individually serve
Speaker 2: as a doula, right, and I learned so much. I'm
Speaker 2: asked so much information and in service. But then Mandy,
Speaker 2: one time there was a there was a moment, right,
Speaker 2: And I think everybody experiences this too, right at any
Speaker 2: stage in business and what they're growing something you have
Speaker 2: an opportunity. I feel like that arises in each of
Speaker 2: us where we're inside of this configuration and things are
Speaker 2: going well, but you're being asked to do more or
Speaker 2: called to do something bigger and so the container that
Speaker 2: you're inside of no longer fits. It's like when you
Speaker 2: have to repot your plants, right.
Speaker 3: You know, to expand and to be you know.
Speaker 1: Like my son busting out of as eighteen month onesie girl,
Speaker 1: Like Mama, I'm almost too. It's a time give it up?
Speaker 3: Can we talk about it well? Overnight? Like it's gonna
Speaker 3: throw the close. Okay, overnight they outgrow these clothes. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: So you feel that call to expand, and some of
Speaker 2: us will show up and answer it and be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to step into this thing that feels really
Speaker 2: scary and uncertain and I don't know because I'm super
Speaker 2: comfortable here, but like something's pulling me and also even
Speaker 2: almost in some cases forcing me to move beyond. And
Speaker 2: so I had that, I had that experience where it
Speaker 2: was not just enough to serve as a doula. I
Speaker 2: needed to build something bigger. And that's when Mama Glow
Speaker 2: comes into being. Really is at a pivotal point culturally,
Speaker 2: which is like how a lot of things come right
Speaker 2: in terms of our uh, you know we think about
Speaker 2: impact right and impact oriented work. Is that some critical
Speaker 2: pieces of reporting came out Pro Publica and The New
Speaker 2: York Times of Black Manternal Health, right, yes, and these right,
Speaker 2: These were stories that shifted culture. It was groundbreaking that
Speaker 2: there was finally this focus on things that we have
Speaker 2: been talking about in silos for years that were happening
Speaker 2: to us, and there was finally on central stage or
Speaker 2: center stage, this discussion happening that permeated the globe, and
Speaker 2: now everyone was talking about what it is like to
Speaker 2: give birth in the United States if you are a
Speaker 2: black birthing person, and that moment of that sort of
Speaker 2: you know, earth shattering, and then subsequently more pieces come
Speaker 2: and more stories absolute heartbreaking, heartbreaking is I mean in nature?
Speaker 3: Absolutely right?
Speaker 2: And to level set for folks we're talking about you know,
Speaker 2: and many of you have heard these statistics, but to
Speaker 2: share that black women in the United States are three
Speaker 2: to four times more likely than white women to die
Speaker 2: during childbirth or due to childbirth related causes, right, And
Speaker 2: we're not talking about numbers. We were talking about individuals
Speaker 2: and people with potential who pass on and leave behind
Speaker 2: a legacy that is unfinished, and they have children who
Speaker 2: have to then be raised by community. And when because
Speaker 2: we know that black women are the crux of community,
Speaker 2: when black women die, it actually just configures our communities.
Speaker 2: And so because we are oriented differently than other communities, right,
Speaker 2: and so it's not only just an individual tragedy, it's
Speaker 2: a collective tragedy that we experience when this happens, right. So,
Speaker 2: and so what I saw in that moment was to
Speaker 2: create the program that would train the dulas because it
Speaker 2: had to be bigger than me. It couldn't just be
Speaker 2: me out here in the world. It's not effective enough.
Speaker 2: And I had the knowledge, and I had the years
Speaker 2: of experience. It was like it's time. So I developed
Speaker 2: a program. I remember in twenty eighteen, I was super
Speaker 2: nervous to you know, put out the flyers to announce it.
Speaker 2: I waited until last minute because that's apropos of who
Speaker 2: I am. I mean pretty much, I always do everything
Speaker 2: last minute. And so here we go. I launched the
Speaker 2: flyer like two weeks before the class is supposed to start,
Speaker 2: and Mandy, Oh my days. It filled in the next one.
Speaker 2: I did that within nine months. We expanded from New
Speaker 2: York to La Miami in Paris, and then COVID hits
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty and it's like, what do we do now, right,
Speaker 2: because this is an in person experience, So in three
Speaker 2: weeks we pivot to online. We test internally with the
Speaker 2: you know, like the group of people that we have.
Speaker 2: Basically we grew like eightfold overnight, eightfold.
Speaker 1: Heyba fam, We're going to take a quick break, pay
Speaker 1: some bills, and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2: The classes were now like hundreds of people in each class,
Speaker 2: people were home because of COVID, right, so they're able
Speaker 2: to be online. And so we had not only the
Speaker 2: limit the limit the lack of limitation because of online,
Speaker 2: but also we had people who were literally at home
Speaker 2: trying to find purpose, and so all those people came
Speaker 2: in and it was incredible, and so we we actually
Speaker 2: really grew the business and COVID. Where many people were
Speaker 2: winding down or sunsetting businesses, we were like catapulted and
Speaker 2: COVID and so it was actually a blessing for us.
Speaker 2: And so while our in person courses and training and
Speaker 2: programs you know, had to collapse during that time, the
Speaker 2: online really shot up and then we found really innovative
Speaker 2: ways to like support community and really support and and
Speaker 2: actually pour into the doulas in ways that we couldn't
Speaker 2: in the beginning, or not even saying that we couldn't,
Speaker 2: but just it was a different focus because we were
Speaker 2: in person, so we didn't have to think about like
Speaker 2: the fact that people were isolated, and now we're thinking
Speaker 2: through how to maintain their well being, their mental health,
Speaker 2: how to create you know, community online and spaces for
Speaker 2: them for self care while they're still practicing and living
Speaker 2: through a public health and you know, a global public
Speaker 2: health crisis, right, and so so that's how it kind
Speaker 2: of expanded. But it was really, you know, not something
Speaker 2: that I started from a lens of I'm going to
Speaker 2: go this crazy business.
Speaker 3: It's going to be huge.
Speaker 2: It was more just like, you know, this is what
Speaker 2: I would like to do, and I knew in this moment,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm just going to keep putting
Speaker 2: one foot in front of the other. And and I
Speaker 2: would also always write down and like project map what
Speaker 2: I wanted to create, even if I was under resourced,
Speaker 2: So even in the times where I could not actually
Speaker 2: see it through, I would project map as if it
Speaker 2: was already happening. And I I've done that my whole career.
Speaker 3: Like I'll sit here.
Speaker 2: It's not like really vision boarding, because I do that too,
Speaker 2: but it is literally like sort of mapping your your
Speaker 2: sort of business arc and really diving into a roadmap
Speaker 2: and having it in the background almost like you know,
Speaker 2: when you're in a restaurant and there's like that music
Speaker 2: playing in the background. It's and you're just like not
Speaker 2: tuned in, but you kind of oh, there's thing, you know,
Speaker 2: one of your favorite songs, and then you kind of
Speaker 2: go back into what you're doing. It's like that like
Speaker 2: that thing stays in the background, and so I'm always aware.
Speaker 3: And so then when something.
Speaker 2: Does surface that we achieve that was in that roadmap, right,
Speaker 2: like i'd stop, I acknowledge, and I also like go
Speaker 2: back to that.
Speaker 3: And I look to see what other things so that
Speaker 3: I'm also becoming more aware of what I'm continuing to do,
Speaker 3: but also to like loop into where I was and
Speaker 3: then versus where I am. And so it's been a
Speaker 3: great exercise.
Speaker 2: I'm a visual learner as well, so like these types
Speaker 2: of things are helpful.
Speaker 3: And then guess what.
Speaker 2: We were able to work with CBS ETNA to develop
Speaker 2: a do a competency training for nurse care managers for
Speaker 2: CEU credits, and so then I was able to take
Speaker 2: a train that we already had distill it down to
Speaker 2: a three hour program for CEU credits for nurses and
Speaker 2: so then I was like I checked that off, right,
Speaker 2: And so things like that right where you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't know how it would happen. But when you're and
Speaker 2: I feel like you shouldn't always try to figure out how,
Speaker 2: because part of the journey is like you need to
Speaker 2: come up with the vision, right, and the vision has
Speaker 2: to be expansive, it has to be bigger than you
Speaker 2: have to also feel unattainable because along the way, along
Speaker 2: the way, you encounter solutions, you encounter contacts, resources, and
Speaker 2: sometimes find your way to that thing or something like it,
Speaker 2: or even something better. And so for me, I was
Speaker 2: able to achieve that thing that I set out for,
Speaker 2: but then even something better where we were able to
Speaker 2: work within healthcare systems in ways that I had not imagined, right, So,
Speaker 2: but because that was one of the pathways, it created
Speaker 2: an opening for other things. But I think also too,
Speaker 2: the consistency of action for me has one of the
Speaker 2: things that I feel like has had to stand out because,
Speaker 2: like I said before, you know, if you're moving around,
Speaker 2: you're balancing, like, if you're not focused, then people can't see.
Speaker 2: People have such a low attention span these days, right,
Speaker 2: and so you think that they see your work and
Speaker 2: they don't and so or they're like, oh I think
Speaker 2: I saw this, or it's just there's too much coming
Speaker 2: at people. So if you're not consistent, they don't know
Speaker 2: what to plug into or to focus on, or they
Speaker 2: don't even know how to their brain doesn't know what
Speaker 2: to do right. And then also I think that when
Speaker 2: you're asking, you know, if you think about or have
Speaker 2: a belief in a higher power, if you're asking for
Speaker 2: support and benevolence and guidance and strength on this journey,
Speaker 2: but you keep switching, it's like hard to because then
Speaker 2: you're gonna get the thing you ask for, but you're
Speaker 2: gonna be gone, you know, onto the next thing. And
Speaker 2: so you got to also focus so that you can
Speaker 2: prepare for the blessing right. And so that's what I
Speaker 2: always try to do too, is like I need to
Speaker 2: stay right where I am so that when that thing
Speaker 2: that I ask for and that I've been working towards arise,
Speaker 2: I actually have the capacity to hold it because I've
Speaker 2: been building towards expanding you know, the platform and the
Speaker 2: ability to scale the business. And I live for people
Speaker 2: saying to me like how they were impacted. I live
Speaker 2: for being able to support you know, staff, you know,
Speaker 2: and them living their dreams and being able to live
Speaker 2: full lives. I live for things like that. I live for,
Speaker 2: you know, my son, Like we live for our kids too, right.
Speaker 2: But I think it helps to do this for yourself
Speaker 2: because sometimes people don't acknowledge, and many of us, especially
Speaker 2: here as we're talking about women of color, we are
Speaker 2: not acknowledged for our gifts, for our brilliance, for the
Speaker 2: for the singular, I mean, how singular we are when
Speaker 2: we step into a space over.
Speaker 3: The only one and people will act.
Speaker 2: Like we are not here and that we are not
Speaker 2: doing the damn thing, and it will in some ways,
Speaker 2: it can cut, and it can feel like a thousand
Speaker 2: tiny cuts, and sometimes you don't feel like you have
Speaker 2: the ability to keep going, especially if things get challenging,
Speaker 2: if no one's acknowledging the good you're doing.
Speaker 3: And so sometimes it's.
Speaker 2: Like doing these practices of cloaking yourself with love of
Speaker 2: remind yourself that you're worthy, and also envisioning yourself being acknowledged. Also,
Speaker 2: I think feels really good, especially in a world that
Speaker 2: is always telling black and brown women and girls that
Speaker 2: we are not enough, and we are and by the way,
Speaker 2: you know how I know we are because we don't
Speaker 2: have a choice, because we have to be forced to
Speaker 2: outperform everybody, which is why you see black women the
Speaker 2: most educated population in this country, and we're talking about
Speaker 2: the United States highly educated, not because we wanted to
Speaker 2: get all these degrees because we had to to be
Speaker 2: able to compete. And by the way, when we get
Speaker 2: into positions, and we were in positions of leadership and power,
Speaker 2: we could have ran the whole thing. By the time
Speaker 2: we get into a position where a subordinate is maybe
Speaker 2: paid more as somebody who's alongside us, maybe paid even
Speaker 2: comparably or more, but we're doing ten times the amount
Speaker 2: of work. And so I know that we sit inside
Speaker 2: of this face of being unacknowledged. I know we sit
Speaker 2: inside of spaces where we are not reminded of our
Speaker 2: brilliance and how amazing we are, and a lot of
Speaker 2: times we do not feel loved. And I'm here to
Speaker 2: remind us that. You know, part of it is creating
Speaker 2: community so we can feel that. And then part of
Speaker 2: it is like a cloaking of self love, constantly speaking,
Speaker 2: blessing over yourself, constantly being in a space where we
Speaker 2: do not do what we have been taught, which is
Speaker 2: to self criticize, but to actually self actualize. That is
Speaker 2: our job here, because nobody can do the work you
Speaker 2: were put here to do.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 2: I can help bring it out of you, but I
Speaker 2: can't help you do it. Mandy could sit here and
Speaker 2: podcast all day and remind you about who the fuck
Speaker 2: you are, But if you don't actually get up and
Speaker 2: go do it, like, it's this amazing wasted potential right
Speaker 2: Like it's like if you can't do the thing that
Speaker 2: you were put here to do, like, then we don't
Speaker 2: get to see it. And that, to me is the shame.
Speaker 2: Is there's somebody out there who decides not to keep going,
Speaker 2: like we don't get to see the brilliance and we
Speaker 2: don't get to benefit from it as a community. And
Speaker 2: so as black women, I always want to remind us
Speaker 2: that that pouring in is so critical to keep going.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. Just listen to you build us
Speaker 1: up all day. I mean, I think self love is
Speaker 1: so crucial. It is a practice though, because there's days
Speaker 1: where I am like so good to myself and there
Speaker 1: are days when I'm so mean to her and I'm
Speaker 1: just like, no, not too much on my friend Mandy,
Speaker 1: like let's be kind yes, be kind of me, And
Speaker 1: he said bullying stop stop stop the self bullying. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: but it has to come from within, and I ice, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that is a constant practice. I want to talk
Speaker 1: just about Mike, I want to talk about I want
Speaker 1: to be I want to admit I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: ignorant of the work of doulas and the work of
Speaker 1: I mean, I had pretty cookie cutter, vanilla pregnancy and
Speaker 1: birthing experiences. I know, I'm very lucky. I also recognize
Speaker 1: my privilege. I'm a light skinned woman of color. But
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the doula, Like, yes, doula
Speaker 1: versus midwife, what are we question?
Speaker 3: What are we getting?
Speaker 1: What all comes with that? And what can you expect
Speaker 1: and how do you know if you need one yeah
Speaker 1: or not?
Speaker 2: So first of all, I love that you have asked
Speaker 2: what the difference is, because there is one, and there's
Speaker 2: many differences, I should say, between douls and midwives. So
Speaker 2: midwives are clinical care providers who are trained to provide
Speaker 2: support along the entire women's health continuum.
Speaker 3: So you can work with.
Speaker 2: A midwife for well woman care and well care throughout
Speaker 2: your reproductive journey, starting from men's thees through menoplause, right,
Speaker 2: And these would be typically people who were in our
Speaker 2: community and Midwiffree is actually one of the oldest known professions, right,
Speaker 2: So we've always had midwives and this work is actually
Speaker 2: really ancient, right, and so what they do is low
Speaker 2: risk burn and that's typically for people who are you know,
Speaker 2: like healthy and wanting to do birth in one of
Speaker 2: three settings. It could be home, it could be a
Speaker 2: birth center, and in some cases hospitals that do have
Speaker 2: midwives on staff, right, and those would be certified nurse
Speaker 2: midwives who will be on staff and hospitals, and so
Speaker 2: it would depend on your choice and your avenue that
Speaker 2: you select. So midwives are an option. The midway three
Speaker 2: model of care centers the family and their needs and
Speaker 2: so it doesn't center around the needs of those providing
Speaker 2: the care, but those receiving the care. And that's a
Speaker 2: difference in what we see in our normal sort of
Speaker 2: healthcare model where the doctor is sort of at there's
Speaker 2: a hierarchy and the doctor's at the top, right, and
Speaker 2: it's really the physician that's centered versus the patient. So
Speaker 2: doula is a non clinical care provider, meaning that they
Speaker 2: provide all of the things outside of the clindict experience.
Speaker 2: So that is going to be emotional support along the
Speaker 2: pregnancy and birth continuum. It'll be education, advocacy tools. If
Speaker 2: you have a partner present, they're going to support your
Speaker 2: partner and get them up to speed on how to
Speaker 2: best support you through the process.
Speaker 3: And also it's about you know what my client's call is.
Speaker 2: It like having a producer for your birth right, somebody
Speaker 2: who's thinking about every aspect of this experience and how
Speaker 2: it will go for you and making sure that you
Speaker 2: have everything you need to navigate the experience.
Speaker 3: Now, a couple things to think about.
Speaker 2: You know when we talk about advocating, and we constantly
Speaker 2: have this conversation about black women advocating for themselves and
Speaker 2: you got to advocate, you got to advocate, yes, but
Speaker 2: let me give a caveat There's two things that I
Speaker 2: like to say about this. One is that you cannot
Speaker 2: advocate in birth. At the same time, birthing is about surrender,
Speaker 2: It's about transcendence. It's about opening, softening, being vulnerable.
Speaker 3: You have to be in.
Speaker 2: A space where you feel safety, you feel dignity, you
Speaker 2: feel belonging, you feel like you are held, and in
Speaker 2: that you can actually the hormones that are designed to
Speaker 2: help facilitate birth can actually flow.
Speaker 3: The experience can flow.
Speaker 2: If you are fighting for your life, if you are
Speaker 2: fighting for your safety, if you have to compromise your
Speaker 2: safety for your dignity. If any of these things are
Speaker 2: happening where you do not feel comfortable, you cannot birth.
Speaker 2: So I want to just say that, because this idea
Speaker 2: of advocating is about defending. It's about self defending. It's
Speaker 2: about self really, it's about you know, protecting yourself. How
Speaker 2: can I also protect myself but then also birth right?
Speaker 2: I can do one or the other. I cannot do both.
Speaker 2: And so we need to create atmospheres and settings that
Speaker 2: do not require advocacy, that do not require me to
Speaker 2: fight for my safety, fight for my dignity, fight to
Speaker 2: be seen and heard, fight for medication for pain, fight
Speaker 2: for like I should not be having to do this, right,
Speaker 2: And this is what black women have been saying all
Speaker 2: along when they talk about the experience of medical racism
Speaker 2: in hospital settings. Right, that's number one. The other thing
Speaker 2: I want us to think about when it comes, you know,
Speaker 2: to this process is you know, in lieu of or editation,
Speaker 2: in addition to not being able to advocate, you know,
Speaker 2: while you're actually trying to birth your babies, is that
Speaker 2: you know, when we're moving through this process, you know,
Speaker 2: we feel this is a space of deep vulnerability.
Speaker 3: Right, this is a space where.
Speaker 2: You know people are not able to when you're when
Speaker 2: you're actually birthing, a couple of things happen.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Your brain is in an altered state of consciousness. And
Speaker 2: what typically happens is there's a lot of decisions that
Speaker 2: you're being asked to make when you're not in the
Speaker 2: frame of mind to actually make those decisions, right. And
Speaker 2: so a lot of things happen that are non consensual
Speaker 2: that people feel coerced in to doing or consenting to
Speaker 2: and setting in a setting where they should be protected.
Speaker 2: And so another thing, what like, well like signing a
Speaker 2: paper for an epidural, Right, Like, how can I do
Speaker 2: that when I'm in active labor and I'm in and
Speaker 2: I'm in pain, and I'm in and out of contractions.
Speaker 2: How can I sign ten pages of paperwork and read
Speaker 2: it and really understand what I'm signing off for?
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, And so you can't write, you can't do
Speaker 3: it in that state. And so I think.
Speaker 1: That you need a birthing plan.
Speaker 3: That is why you need a plan, but also you
Speaker 3: need a duelah.
Speaker 2: But you also need to read this information know about
Speaker 2: it before.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: We can't be in the moment trying to figure it
Speaker 3: all out.
Speaker 1: And I think the thing that my hospital did do
Speaker 1: is they were like, we need a birth plan and
Speaker 1: a lot of their nurses were midwives, I believe.
Speaker 3: Which is amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got this really nice hospital. I'm curious though,
Speaker 1: like when I I think about doulas or midwives, is
Speaker 1: that person catching the baby?
Speaker 2: So the midwife absolutely could catch the baby. A doula
Speaker 2: is there as support, so it is not there to
Speaker 2: deliver the baby, but they are there to like be
Speaker 2: an extra set of hands, someone who's helping you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're like, are you the leader for your birth?
Speaker 1: Is it best to have both? Yes, you need the combo.
Speaker 3: You need the combo. It's it's because it's a dream team.
Speaker 2: Because it's like the clinicians do clinician things right, So
Speaker 2: they're birthing the baby, they're monitoring you, making sure that
Speaker 2: you're safe, taking care of all the clinical needs. But
Speaker 2: then the doula can do all the emotional stuff, like
Speaker 2: you know, like feeding you the water between contractions, you know,
Speaker 2: giving you massage or or comfort measures while you're experiencing pain,
Speaker 2: you know, breathing with you, maybe saying okay, let's walk
Speaker 2: or let's dance or let me you know, use this
Speaker 2: technique on you, right, yeah, dancing, he's very helpful right
Speaker 2: in labor. But you know, changing position is you know,
Speaker 2: like all these they.
Speaker 1: Push the peanut ball in between the flip you over.
Speaker 2: All of these things, right, the hands on support is
Speaker 2: what the dula is doing. But another thing, like to
Speaker 2: think about it like this, I always say to people,
Speaker 2: like our job is to protect your memory of the experience, right,
Speaker 2: Like I'm here to think about how you recall your birth.
Speaker 2: I want to I'm invested in that story, right, I'm
Speaker 2: invested in what that looks like when you tell people
Speaker 2: what happened, when you recall it for yourself, when you
Speaker 2: tell it to your children. What are you saying, right
Speaker 2: when you when you have that, when you undergo the experience,
Speaker 2: what is the story you tell? And part of what
Speaker 2: we're doing is preserving that, right, preserving the experience, preserving
Speaker 2: the memory of the experience. And the doula is there
Speaker 2: really like as that you know, the keeper of the
Speaker 2: birth village, right, Like there's a bunch of people who
Speaker 2: are part of the birth right. You might have a
Speaker 2: lactation provider, massage therapist, ttritionist. You have your OB or
Speaker 2: your midwife, and you would have an OB or a midwife, right,
Speaker 2: Like typically people would have one or the other, and
Speaker 2: then they would have a doula, right, And so the
Speaker 2: OB's and adula's work together if that's what you select
Speaker 2: to work with an obgin or if you decide to
Speaker 2: work with a midwife, and the midwife and the doula
Speaker 2: work together, which is great. You know, and people you know,
Speaker 2: if they're going to do a hospital birth. Not everybody's
Speaker 2: a candidate for hospital birth. Some people are better for
Speaker 2: home birth or out of hospital birth and a birth center.
Speaker 2: Some people are better suited for that experience. And then
Speaker 2: some people are most comfortable but also best suited in hospitals,
Speaker 2: depending on like what some of their needs are, right
Speaker 2: and regardless of what you have going on, even if
Speaker 2: you have a complicated birth plan, like some people know
Speaker 2: that they have a C section plan because of a
Speaker 2: health concern, a doula is tremendously helpful in that experience
Speaker 2: as well as a postpartumer recovery experience.
Speaker 1: I think the postpartum experience is one that is so
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it's just me, but I feel like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of focus before and during the labor,
Speaker 1: but then after it's very much like maybe you'll get
Speaker 1: someone to come squeeze your boob for you and teach
Speaker 1: you how to do the seahold. And now there are
Speaker 1: more resources. I remember I went to lactation elactation support
Speaker 1: group at my hospital after I had to seek that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff out though. And just having a non mother,
Speaker 1: like a non relative of yours, but just someone who's
Speaker 1: there for your best interests and who really knows what
Speaker 1: to expect. I wish. I love the idea of having
Speaker 1: that sort of resource postpartum. So when yeah, and is
Speaker 1: that something that a doula can provide? Like you know,
Speaker 1: there's the feeding and like the are they sleeping enough?
Speaker 3: Am I?
Speaker 1: You know, like how can I navigate this? Is this normal?
Speaker 1: Is that normal?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's a couple things so postpartum doulas this
Speaker 2: is the role right to come in and make sure
Speaker 2: that you feel confidence in your transition into new parenthood.
Speaker 2: A couple things to think about with right is that
Speaker 2: you have things like baby nurses. Right, they come in,
Speaker 2: they're thinking about sleep, they're changing diapers or feeding babies
Speaker 2: or doing a lot of like hands on support, but
Speaker 2: they are not really there for you. And when you
Speaker 2: just gave birth, right, like, the people who are there
Speaker 2: for you really is that postpartum doula who's helping you
Speaker 2: with recovery, helping you to get those underwear on if
Speaker 2: you have like the pad sickles and you're putting on
Speaker 2: the postpartum underwear, and it's a whole thing. Helping with
Speaker 2: things like that, Helping with meals right, maybe organizing a
Speaker 2: meal train, making sure you're having adequate nutrition postpartum, you know,
Speaker 2: helping you with things like organization like how am I
Speaker 2: going to organize the nursery or my space? Or where
Speaker 2: the diapers go versus where the breastmelt goes versus where
Speaker 2: the bottles go, like all these things helping you to
Speaker 2: put things in order and organize your life for success. Right,
Speaker 2: So they're thinking about systems as well and also there
Speaker 2: for you to help you build confidence as new parents.
Speaker 2: So a do look can also help you as you're
Speaker 2: changing diapers, help you with you know, skills or with swaddling,
Speaker 2: teaching you things but also not doing it for you
Speaker 2: so much as like helping you do it and then
Speaker 2: thinking about like okay, when the baby goes down, like
Speaker 2: it's time for you, right, So they'll observe feedings, they'll
Speaker 2: you know, make sure you're eating, resting. But then also,
Speaker 2: you know, we'll spend some time helping you process your
Speaker 2: labor experience, do things like you know, like recap that
Speaker 2: experience with you. Maybe also even you know, help you
Speaker 2: to if you've had some experience where maybe there was
Speaker 2: challenge come on the other side of that, to be
Speaker 2: able to you know, process that experience that you're not
Speaker 2: carrying the pain of what that might have been like
Speaker 2: or trauma for some people into the next experience right
Speaker 2: or into your parenting right, and just you to close
Speaker 2: out and experience of birthing as well.
Speaker 1: Right, Hey, ba fam, we're gonna take a quick b
Speaker 1: pay some bills, and we'll be right back. Welcome back,
Speaker 1: be a fan. Let's get back to the show. That's
Speaker 1: such an interesting point, especially if you've had a not
Speaker 1: great experience. Sometimes you're in the moment and you don't
Speaker 1: really know how to process it, and then afterward you
Speaker 1: start replaying things and then it can start to really
Speaker 1: like oh that's and so with a doula, I mean,
Speaker 1: do you just you just show up at a certain
Speaker 1: hour like okay, postpartum, I'm going to have you here
Speaker 1: from two to five pm every day, or.
Speaker 3: You design it.
Speaker 2: However, for folks who find the right dula, right, there's
Speaker 2: a vibe, there's an energy. So when you're meeting in
Speaker 2: your interview and you're like, oh, like we get along
Speaker 2: really well, and you think, oh, we have some cultural
Speaker 2: you know, things that main line up or this is
Speaker 2: happening in my life, and you're like, oh cool. So
Speaker 2: it's like there's sometimes these these areas of interest or
Speaker 2: overlap in terms of like culture or lifestyle or background
Speaker 2: and things like that that can also help ridge those gaps.
Speaker 2: But most of the time, when people are looking for this,
Speaker 2: they're kind of ready right to like open up and
Speaker 2: or need a container to open up into. And oftentimes,
Speaker 2: more often than not, people are isolated in this experience.
Speaker 2: A lot of people come to it and they don't
Speaker 2: have friends who've had kids, or they may be the
Speaker 2: only friend that they'ell pregnant at the time, or they
Speaker 2: may be a new city or whatever's happening in their life,
Speaker 2: or like you lived through COVID, right, like a lot
Speaker 2: of people having babies in isolation with no family members around,
Speaker 2: Like that's struggle, that's hard trauma, right, Like it's.
Speaker 1: Hard for me to go back to that time.
Speaker 2: I could understand why, because there's a lot there, right,
Speaker 2: And so the doula's role is to help mitigate that
Speaker 2: and to help you feel more safe.
Speaker 3: And calm, but also held.
Speaker 2: In your vulnerability. Like I like to think about how
Speaker 2: we swaddle newborns, like swaddling a new family, swallowing a
Speaker 2: new mother as they navigate this experience, right, and then
Speaker 2: Dula does that really well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for you as the doula, it must
Speaker 1: be hard to make that connection and then move on
Speaker 1: down the road. Pack up your little doula suitcase.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you stay in.
Speaker 2: Touch with your There's a lot of women in touch
Speaker 2: with still and folks.
Speaker 1: Did I read that you were Alicia Keys's doula? I
Speaker 1: was is that like a known? I was like that,
Speaker 1: I thought that was public?
Speaker 3: It is, like, I love her really great.
Speaker 2: We actually get to do a partnership later from Mother's Day,
Speaker 2: which I'm so excited about.
Speaker 1: She does strike me as she is so ethereal and earth,
Speaker 1: just like of course she would have a doula.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was so into it. It was great. I
Speaker 3: love her. Yeah, so she's great.
Speaker 1: So do you still do it? I mean, like, is
Speaker 1: it hard for you as a business now your business
Speaker 1: is growing, now you're training a.
Speaker 3: Doulas it's anymore.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, because of my schedule, you know, because university my
Speaker 2: course was embedded at Brown University, where I teached right,
Speaker 2: medical students, medical collegy students, bioethics, public health, they'll be
Speaker 2: guying pre med.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think as entrepreneurs, So thepreneurs, you're hoping
Speaker 1: to get to that level where you're not having to
Speaker 1: do the you know, the day to day and that
Speaker 1: you can focus on the bigger picture growth strategy and
Speaker 1: just increasing the reach.
Speaker 3: Yes, creating more opportunities and all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which which is better a better use of my
Speaker 2: time as an individual, right to make more opportunity for
Speaker 2: three thousand people who are in our network versus something
Speaker 2: just for me, right, And so so that's how I
Speaker 2: kind of see, you know, but I have had the
Speaker 2: privilege of doing you know, I think the last you know,
Speaker 2: I would say, the last couple of births, it was
Speaker 2: really like one a year, you know, because I was
Speaker 2: doing like three to four month, you know, back in
Speaker 2: the day. But yeah, so then I got to like,
Speaker 2: you know, I would say like last year, the in
Speaker 2: the year before was like once you know that I
Speaker 2: was able to do them for people who I really love,
Speaker 2: like I've done you know, like Alicia like you said,
Speaker 2: and Ashley Graham and Hath the way, DJ Khaled, you
Speaker 2: know a lot of you know people, And I guess.
Speaker 1: All these people have home births. I think actually Graham
Speaker 1: had a home birth right for her twins. She had
Speaker 1: a home birth yea, and she posted something about that, sorry,
Speaker 1: she had.
Speaker 3: Two home births.
Speaker 1: It looks so beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, damn.
Speaker 1: I mean I had a great, beautiful experience that I
Speaker 1: will cherish it. But it also looks I mean, just
Speaker 1: the pictures. I love looking at pictures of births now
Speaker 1: and some people get weirded out by it. But it
Speaker 1: is the most beautiful.
Speaker 3: Thing is because you know, it's just I.
Speaker 1: Could just get like I'm like buzzing just thinking about it. Magic.
Speaker 2: It's awesome also because it happens once, right, Like you
Speaker 2: only have one birthday, you know, and then after that
Speaker 2: it's just anniversaries every year it's one birthday. And so
Speaker 2: when you capture that, you're capturing the one time that
Speaker 2: someone arrived for the very first and only time to
Speaker 2: this planet. Right through this portal of the body from
Speaker 2: heaven or ever that came through darkness into light. They
Speaker 2: are born. And it only happens once and each time,
Speaker 2: and you've been able to do it twice, right, each time,
Speaker 2: it's the first time again, right, Like it's the only
Speaker 2: time with that baby each time, right, And so you
Speaker 2: get to do it over and over, which is beautiful
Speaker 2: if you do it more than once, and you've had
Speaker 2: the opportunity to be reborn again into motherhood. But like
Speaker 2: people have to understand what we want to protect is
Speaker 2: the sancty this experience, because it is holy, it is otherworldly.
Speaker 2: It is to be protected. They come on the other
Speaker 2: side of that, it's like they can use the power
Speaker 2: that emerges from that experience of birthing to ask for
Speaker 2: increase in their pay at work, to ask for a raise.
Speaker 2: They can use that energy to ask and demand from
Speaker 2: what they want. In other spaces, they use that to
Speaker 2: claim up take up more space in the world. Literally,
Speaker 2: your body expands and takes up more space, right like
Speaker 2: the ones who get to live into that power in
Speaker 2: that moment bring that with them, and so that is
Speaker 2: another reason why it has to be protected.
Speaker 3: It's not just about huge opportunity, well.
Speaker 2: Process, it is a huge opportunity for us to actually
Speaker 2: become more self actualized.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: If you come to Momaglo doula training, you'll learn all
Speaker 2: of this, which is what doulas are learning, nurses are learning,
Speaker 2: healthcare providers are learning because it needs to be known,
Speaker 2: and we are the market leader. So if you want
Speaker 2: to learn how to do this, if you want to
Speaker 2: have this experience for yourself, you can hire one of
Speaker 2: our duels, which you certainly come to the training, and
Speaker 2: we have lots of people who come wh they're pregnant
Speaker 2: because they want to be able to carry this with
Speaker 2: them into these spaces so that they feel informed. Right,
Speaker 2: And so that's another thing to think about too. Take
Speaker 2: doula training just to even prepare you for birth itself.
Speaker 3: Right, that's really smart. Yeah, yeah, Well.
Speaker 1: We'll make sure that all the links are in the
Speaker 1: show notes. Late than I could talk to you forever,
Speaker 1: Lathan Thomas, thank you so much, y'all. You chok the
Speaker 1: show notes for Mama glow, how to go to all
Speaker 1: of the trainings if you want to get doula certified
Speaker 1: trained what's the word? Okay, certified and find out more
Speaker 1: about our beautiful I want to call you the Globe, Maven,
Speaker 1: because that's fine. You are on Instagram find her at
Speaker 1: the Globe. Even what else did I forget?
Speaker 3: I'm just so label.
Speaker 1: I'll have you back. We'll have you back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I try to come back. But I love you.
Speaker 3: I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2: I just have to say this, y'all, that people like
Speaker 2: Mandy and what you are doing here, and even when
Speaker 2: I met you, I was like, Okay, first of all,
Speaker 2: like fast friends, love her energy all the way, like
Speaker 2: just immanating energy, like dripping in love and support of
Speaker 2: other women. But the other thing that I really love
Speaker 2: is that you're, like, you know, talking about how you
Speaker 2: want to continue to build what you all have done
Speaker 2: so beautifully here to impact more of us. And I
Speaker 2: love that you were like not it was not enough.
Speaker 2: Like as she was speaking to me when we met
Speaker 2: at Afrotech, one of the things I took away was
Speaker 2: that there was this level of satisfaction, like look what
Speaker 2: we've done, but also I know we can do more.
Speaker 2: And it was like that that I found really inspiring,
Speaker 2: that you want to continue to impact people, you want
Speaker 2: to continue to touch people, and that you're driven to
Speaker 2: do so. And so I just think that's amazing because
Speaker 2: sometimes we get to a place where we're like this
Speaker 2: is cool, and then we shift our focus. And what
Speaker 2: I found in meeting you was that you were like, no,
Speaker 2: this is time to go deeper and then find other
Speaker 2: ways to do more and explore other tentacles. And I
Speaker 2: found that to be really refreshing. But also just know, y'all,
Speaker 2: she reaches everybody. This is an amazing pod. I'm so
Speaker 2: honored to be on here. I was so excited to
Speaker 2: be invited. First of all, I feel honored because I'm
Speaker 2: listening like this is one of my shower listens, by
Speaker 2: the way, So I'm thankful to be on here, and
Speaker 2: I just appreciate you so much for the opportunity and
Speaker 2: thank you again.
Speaker 1: Listen. The way that we guess each other up as
Speaker 1: black women should be studied by science, because literally my
Speaker 1: face hurts from just like the smile I've had to
Speaker 1: have plastered on this.
Speaker 3: Old time regular offer.
Speaker 1: And I'm just thankful for you I'm so thankful to
Speaker 1: know you too, Latham, and whatever forces came together to
Speaker 1: put us at that dinner table together. Just thank you
Speaker 1: all right, back at you love all right, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining me. La than ba Fam. Check
Speaker 1: the show notes for all links and how you can
Speaker 1: stay tuned and learn more about Mama Glue. Okay, be
Speaker 1: a fam. Thank you, Thank you so much for listening
Speaker 1: to this week's show. I want to shout out to
Speaker 1: our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our fearless leader
Speaker 1: for idea to launch productions. I want to shout out
Speaker 1: my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for helping me
Speaker 1: put the show together. It is not a one person project,
Speaker 1: as much as I have tried to make it so
Speaker 1: these past ten years. I need help, y'all, and thank
Speaker 1: goodness I've been able to put this team around me
Speaker 1: to support me on this journey and to y'all bea fam.
Speaker 1: I love you so so so so much. Please rate, review, subscribe,
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Speaker 1: all the latest updates on upcoming episodes, our tenth year
Speaker 1: anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time, talk to you,
Speaker 1: soon via buye