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Speaker 1: It's very difficult to keep the line between the.

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Speaker 2: Past and the press. You believe that someone out of

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Speaker 2: the past can enter and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 1: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 1: is not through with us.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Next Picture Show, a movie of

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Speaker 3: the Week podcast devoted to a classic film and the

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Speaker 3: way it shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm

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Speaker 3: Scott Tobias here.

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Speaker 1: With Genevievkowski, Tasha Robinson, Keith PEPs.

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Speaker 3: On the first half of this episode, we discussed Joe

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Speaker 3: Dante's Gremlins two The New Batch, an anarchic and idiosyncratic

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Speaker 3: sequel to his hit comedy. In this episode, we're looking

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Speaker 3: at Deadpool two, which doesn't reinvent the original Deadpool so

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Speaker 3: much as amplify its violence and vulgar self awareness. Deadpool

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Speaker 3: two was directed by David Leach, one of the stuntmen

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Speaker 3: turned directors behind the John Wick movies, and so perhaps

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Speaker 3: it's fitting that it kicks off with the home invasion

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Speaker 3: and a death for which the hero feels responsible. Early

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Speaker 3: in the film, Wade Wilson aka Deadpool played by Anian Reynolds,

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Speaker 3: and his girlfriend Vanessa played by Morena Bakerin are shown

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Speaker 3: committing themselves to each other and discussing baby names for

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Speaker 3: their first kid. So, of course, Vanessa gets immediately killed.

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Speaker 3: Deadpool tries to commit suicide, but alas his indestructibility as

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Speaker 3: a curse he has to live with in the absence

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Speaker 3: of the family he intended to create with Vanessa, Deadpool

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Speaker 3: strikes out and acquires a mutant, outcast currogate family of

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Speaker 3: his own, starting with a boy named Russell aka Firefist,

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Speaker 3: played by Julian Dennison, who you'll remember as the kid

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Speaker 3: from Hunt for the Wilder People. Russell has pyrotechnic powers,

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Speaker 3: but he's been living in a kind of miserable orphanage

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Speaker 3: for young mutants. Other Deadpool friends include Colossus, a Russian

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Speaker 3: with titanium skin, and Domino played by Zazi Beats, whose

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Speaker 3: helpful superpower is luck. Their nemesiss Cable played by Josh Brolin,

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Speaker 3: a cybernetic soldier from the future who comes back to

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Speaker 3: kill Russell before the boy grows up to kill his family.

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Speaker 3: That's a lot of plot for a movie that's mostly

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Speaker 3: about doodling in the margins and exploding the cliches we've

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Speaker 3: come to expect from the superhero genre. We'll talk about

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Speaker 3: where Deadpool two functions as a sequel and fits into

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Speaker 3: the superhero realm after this. Sorry I'm late.

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Speaker 2: I was rounding up all the gluten in the world

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Speaker 2: and launching a space where it can't not hurt us

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Speaker 2: ever again.

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Speaker 1: Kiss me like you missed me, Red.

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Speaker 3: My name's Cable.

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Speaker 2: I'm here fit a kid.

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Speaker 3: What the kid?

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Speaker 4: Move or die?

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Speaker 3: Kids?

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Speaker 1: Give us a chance to be better than he used

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Speaker 1: to be. He needs you.

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Speaker 2: You're a lot smarter than I. Look, I let Cable

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Speaker 2: kill this kid, but I can't do this alone.

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Speaker 1: Can you speak up? It's hard to hear you with

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Speaker 1: that pity dick in your mouth.

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Speaker 3: We're going to form a super duper through meet him

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Speaker 3: top porally flexible and young enough.

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Speaker 2: To carry their own franchise for ten to twelve years.

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Speaker 3: You will be known as X Force.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that a little derivative?

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Speaker 3: You're absolutely right? Uh, Deadpool too? What did everyone think?

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Speaker 2: I think I told you actually saw its like, I

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Speaker 2: realized how easily I've entertained sometimes because there's a lot

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Speaker 2: that bugged me about the movie. But I thought that

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Speaker 2: when it was funny, it was really funny, and it

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Speaker 2: goes a long way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is like just the quintessential candy movie. I

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Speaker 4: think we're like, you enjoy it in the moment of

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Speaker 4: watching it, but you can feel kind of gross about

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Speaker 4: it afterward, you know, and like it definitely starts to

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Speaker 4: make you feel a little bloated by the end. But

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Speaker 4: you know, I laughed a lot at Deadpool do I

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Speaker 4: saw it a second time with my boyfriend, and it

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Speaker 4: definitely had lost a little of the magic it had

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Speaker 4: the first time. I don't know how, and that may

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Speaker 4: have just been like my headspace at the time. But

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Speaker 4: I also suspect this may not be a film that

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Speaker 4: holds up to repeat viewings, where some of the surprise

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Speaker 4: of certain elements of it are no longer there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I could certainly see that. I have a like

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Speaker 1: a handful of problems with it in various places. It

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Speaker 1: does some things I don't like, it doesn't do some

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Speaker 1: things I would have liked it to do. But Jennery

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Speaker 1: was sitting next to me the first time I watched it,

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Speaker 1: and like anything, I say, she's going to temper with

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Speaker 1: the fact that I laughed my ass off throughout this movie.

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Speaker 1: This is also a throw a whole bunch of stuff

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Speaker 1: at the wall and see what sticks kind of movie.

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Speaker 1: But I think more so than Gremlin's two for me,

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Speaker 1: the stuff that's being thrown out the wall is thematically

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Speaker 1: focused on something that is like very specific to my

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Speaker 1: interests and tastes, in this case a lot of the

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Speaker 1: worst aspects of comics, Like this movie is merciless in

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Speaker 1: the way it ate lampoons a specific era of comics

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Speaker 1: and a specific kind of action movie in a specific

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Speaker 1: kind of comics movie, and it's just it's my jam.

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Speaker 2: It got a lot better for me as it went along,

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Speaker 2: because I really do not like the beginning of this.

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Speaker 2: I thought the first movie did a pretty good job

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Speaker 2: of balancing the jokes with actually making us care about

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Speaker 2: Deadpool as a character and just killing off the girlfriend

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Speaker 2: like that. It's just such a cliche, you know.

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Speaker 4: It's been very contentious the idea of whether or not

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Speaker 4: Vanessa is fridged in this movie.

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Speaker 3: I read about fridging.

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Speaker 2: She was totally fridged in this movie.

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Speaker 4: Not. According to Gail Simone, a creator of the Women

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Speaker 4: in Refrigerators trope, who is tweeting today that she sees

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Speaker 4: it as a subversion of the Women in Refrigerators trope, which,

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Speaker 4: for those of you unfamiliar with the term of fridging

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Speaker 4: or women in refrigerators, is a term for a prettularly

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Speaker 4: noxious trope in comics where female characters, often girlfriends of

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Speaker 4: the protagonist, are killed off or otherwise tortured or harmed

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Speaker 4: purely for the sake of engendering angst in the male protagonist.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to, you know, I'm not

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Speaker 2: who might argue with Gail Simone who wrote wrote a

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Speaker 2: lot of Deadpool comics that people really like. But I

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Speaker 2: don't see how it's a it's a version of that

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Speaker 2: in any way, because basically she's killed off to motivate

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Speaker 2: him to do the rest of the things he does

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Speaker 2: in the.

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Speaker 4: Yes, but I mean I came out of the movie

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Speaker 4: in Tasha, we briefly talked about this too, so I

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Speaker 4: want to hear your thoughts on it. But I definitely

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Speaker 4: came away disappointed that Vanessa was not a bigger part

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Speaker 4: of the movie, but thinking that it did ultimately come

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Speaker 4: down on the side of subverting the trope, even though,

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Speaker 4: as it turns out, the writers of the film were

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Speaker 4: not even familiar with women and refrigerators, so they were

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Speaker 4: not intentionally subverting it, but the fact that Vanessa continues

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Speaker 4: to reappear throughout the film and push Wade through this

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Speaker 4: storyline in a way that subverts the revenge narrative in

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Speaker 4: a way that I really responded to, because, as I've

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Speaker 4: established on the podcast, I have a lot of issues

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Speaker 4: with the traditional revenge narrative, and I think the way

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Speaker 4: that Vanessa enables the story to push back against that

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Speaker 4: and turn it into something more interesting, and how it

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Speaker 4: works in tandem with the death of Cable's family, and

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Speaker 4: then ultimately the way it is undone gleefully so in

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Speaker 4: the mid credit sequence, because another element of fridging is

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Speaker 4: that the female character like rarely comes back in a

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Speaker 4: way that male characters are often reborn in comics over

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Speaker 4: and over again.

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Speaker 3: So the mid.

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Speaker 4: Credit sequence kind of like under cuts the finality of

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Speaker 4: the fridging, which a lot of people see as cheap

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Speaker 4: and glib, and I understand that, but ultimately I came

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Speaker 4: away from it feeling like the way a Essa use

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Speaker 4: in this movie wasn't great, but I didn't find it offensive.

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Speaker 2: Well, whether it's the verts of trope or not, I

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Speaker 2: just found it's a really sloppy way to start that

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Speaker 2: movie and totally.

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Speaker 4: Even like the nine to five montage, but yeah, but.

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Speaker 2: Like it was just totally it's kind of all over

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Speaker 2: the place and in the beginning of that movie, but

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Speaker 2: but the midst section, especially in this movie, the whole

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Speaker 2: gathering of the xturse.

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Speaker 4: But Scott, we haven't heard from from you, who has

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Speaker 4: really the least connection to this character in this genre,

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Speaker 4: and probably I'm guessing has no real thoughts about X force.

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Speaker 3: I did. I did. That was my favorite bid in

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Speaker 3: the movie, for sure, and when and You're right. I

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Speaker 3: was telling I was telling everyone before the segment that

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Speaker 3: I'm going to have as little to say about Deadpool

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Speaker 3: two as I had a lot to say about Gremlin's two,

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Speaker 3: because again, much like last week's pairing, it's just not

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Speaker 3: an area of great expertise for me. But I will

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Speaker 3: say my experiences with both Deadpool movies, I'm fearing actually

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Speaker 3: seeing this one a second time because I had that

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Speaker 3: experience with the first film of enjoying it more the

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Speaker 3: first time in the second time and sort of worn off.

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Speaker 3: It's charmed. But it's nice to have these movies out

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Speaker 3: there as almost like a palate cleanser, because we get

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Speaker 3: a certain a lot of a certain type of movie,

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Speaker 3: particularly the MCU, which is so disciplined in the way

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Speaker 3: these films are made and how they're targeted and how

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Speaker 3: much language and violence. You know how that is all

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Speaker 3: very carefully managed to me to just to have these

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Speaker 3: Deadpool movies strike a different tone, to be a little

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Speaker 3: vulgar and violent and hyper stylized and quote unquote edgy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's something. It's just a different feel to

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Speaker 3: see these movies, and it's kind of a relief. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I don't feel like these are like great films, but

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Speaker 3: they're necessary counterpar points or they kind of zag where

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Speaker 3: the other film zig or something. I just I like

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Speaker 3: them as a contrast to what we usually see.

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Speaker 4: Again, to get a little meta, like I did feel

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Speaker 4: a little like twinge of regret that we were doing

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Speaker 4: like two major superhero movies in a row as our

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Speaker 4: modern film, but like Deadpool two just feels like such

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Speaker 4: an inversion and explicitly in some parts. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 4: we have Josh Brolin playing Cable here right after he

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Speaker 4: played Thanos in Infinity War.

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Speaker 3: So even though.

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Speaker 4: Deadpool even calls him fantas exactly so, like even though

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Speaker 4: like I am looking forward to getting beyond superhero movies

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Speaker 4: on this podcast. I do like talking about Deadpool right

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Speaker 4: on the heels of the epitome of the type of movie.

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Speaker 4: It is satirizing.

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Speaker 1: There's also just I mean, Infinity War. The ending of

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Speaker 1: Infinity War has been so discussed and debated. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it feels like it's left a cultural scar on all

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Speaker 1: of these people who grew up with the MCU move

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Speaker 1: and yet didn't necessarily read comics, so aren't necessarily used

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Speaker 1: to the disposability of comic book characters and the overflowing

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Speaker 1: cycle over the return of comic book picked characters after

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Speaker 1: the you know, the big commercial die offs that inevitably happen,

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Speaker 1: and then here with that Pool, it just it feels

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Speaker 1: like the movie makes fun of that kind of tone,

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Speaker 1: that kind of trope in so many different ways. The

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Speaker 1: whole sequence with X Force, I mean, I was, I

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Speaker 1: was howling at.

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Speaker 4: That because love Shatter Stars so much.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, the introduction of Shatterstar, who you know,

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Speaker 1: is just a ridiculous life Feldian monstrosity.

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Speaker 4: A guy who can't draw feet by a guy who

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Speaker 4: can't draw feet.

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Speaker 1: Of course we're gonna make fun of life Field directly

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Speaker 1: in this movie. When I when I say making fun

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Speaker 1: of an entire era of comics, I'm thinking of Shatterstar

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Speaker 1: and like, what a terrible, pointless character that was, and

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Speaker 1: what the film does with him here. But the whole

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Speaker 1: subversion of the getting the team together for the thing

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Speaker 1: that goes on here like it once again is just

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Speaker 1: kind of my jam. The things that I have problems

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Speaker 1: with in the movie are the fridging, mostly because of

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Speaker 1: that sense that the screenwriters, as they say, had absolutely

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Speaker 1: no idea that that was a trope. It's like, how

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Speaker 1: can you do a movie that is expressly about making

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Speaker 1: fun of comic book tropes, and that expressly has your

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Speaker 1: main character repeatedly turning to the camera to say this

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Speaker 1: is lazy writing or that's an overused trope, and have

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Speaker 1: it centered directly on one of the biggest and most

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Speaker 1: annoying tropes of all time, not just done once, but

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Speaker 1: done twice in two different characters.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, As someone who was feeling the subversion of that

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Speaker 4: trope from the outset, like when that interview came out

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Speaker 4: this weekend with the screenwriters, I just kind of had

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Speaker 4: a head desk moment of oh you let me down, boy,

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Speaker 4: you've made this so much harder to just fud.

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Speaker 1: And that and that interview is disappointing in so many

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Speaker 1: ways because it's they don't just say we weren't familiar

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Speaker 1: with a trope. They say maybe some women object to it,

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Speaker 1: but not many people will, and then they justify it

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Speaker 1: and seriously, seriously, that's not a precise quote, but that

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Speaker 1: is very much the tone. And then they go on

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Speaker 1: to say, we wanted to take some thing away from Bedpool,

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Speaker 1: and the Marina Backeren character was the best thing to

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Speaker 1: take away from him. It's just so clear where they're

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Speaker 1: coming from.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, their justification for their treatment of Vanessa was more

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Speaker 4: or less the textbook definition of fringing. So yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: but not very all intense.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter well, and the ending of the movie,

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Speaker 1: that's like it literally doesn't matter, and that I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I keep coming back to that moment, and it really

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Speaker 1: complicates how I feel about it, because there are so

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Speaker 1: many beats that the movie hits that are meant to

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Speaker 1: be as I was saying about Gremlins, that are meant

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Speaker 1: to be sincere, that are meant to be emotional, and

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Speaker 1: it feel a little cheap and manipulative, and even more

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Speaker 1: so when they kind of shrug it all off the

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Speaker 1: end and say it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 3: That's a question that I have for you all too

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Speaker 3: about Deadpool too. I mean we'll get into it a

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Speaker 3: little bit with Gremlin's two as well, but it's more

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Speaker 3: pertinent here, which is that can we you know, this

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Speaker 3: film has kind of a family theme going for it.

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Speaker 3: I mean it has, it has a certain sentimental side.

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Speaker 3: I mean, can we care about characters in a film

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Speaker 3: that's so aggressive about deconstructing itself as this one that

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Speaker 3: is going to get to a point where it kind

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Speaker 3: of declares itself to be kind of bs?

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Speaker 4: I think when one of those characters is played by

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Speaker 4: Julian Denison, you ken, because yep, man, that kid is

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Speaker 4: great also.

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Speaker 1: God he I mean I love Hunt for the Wilder

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Speaker 1: People so much and I love him in it so

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Speaker 1: much and seeing him here as like this feels like

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Speaker 1: where that character was headed if the events of for

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Speaker 1: the Wilder People didn't happen. Like it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: different character, but you can feel that DNA in it,

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Speaker 1: and I have both an affection for him and an

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Speaker 1: affection for just the sheer unrelentingness of like his teen anger.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of it's not that different. It's a much bigger, brighter,

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Speaker 1: and obviously hotter version of what they did in the

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Speaker 1: first movie with teenage genetic nagasonic warheads, unrelenting anger and

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Speaker 1: contempt for everything in the movie. There's just this idea

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Speaker 1: in these films that you know, teenagers are angry and

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Speaker 1: you're not going to change that. You can make them laugh,

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Speaker 1: you can make them happy, you can make them feel something,

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Speaker 1: but in the end they're going to defall back to

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Speaker 1: that because that is the state of being a teenager.

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Speaker 1: And I kind of one of the things I respect

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Speaker 1: most about Deadpool is its unrelentingness. It's the unrelentingness of

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Speaker 1: it's humor, of its themes, and of like hitting the

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Speaker 1: same note over and over again until it comes back

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Speaker 1: around to funny, even if it hits a point of

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Speaker 1: not funny in the middle somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Is it good to have somebody like that to counteract

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Speaker 3: what Ryan Reynolds is doing. I mean, what is your

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Speaker 3: general Ryan Reynolds tolerance level? Because mine is mine is

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Speaker 3: I've softened a little bit on him since the Van

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Speaker 3: Wilder days, but he's not that far from Van Wilder

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Speaker 3: at any point, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean The Nines is one of my favorite movies

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Speaker 1: of all time. He is so good in it. He

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Speaker 1: does so many different things in it. Like that movie.

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Speaker 1: First of all, everybody should see it. Second of all,

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Speaker 1: everybody should not read anything about it before they see it.

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Speaker 1: And third of all, him and Melissa McCarthy both in

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Speaker 1: that film, and Octavia Spencer's in it too, and she's terrific,

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Speaker 1: but most specifically him and Melissa McCarthy, Like if they

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Speaker 1: set a giant heap of babies on fire together tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, I really love those two. I

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Speaker 1: still kind of love him because of this movie.

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Speaker 2: I uh wow, Yeah, I think I'm with you on

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Speaker 2: The Nines. It's a really terrific movie. And I feel

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Speaker 2: like people have found the best way to use him

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Speaker 2: where he's found the best to use for his skills,

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Speaker 2: like the kind of just find a way I'd either

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Speaker 2: subvert or just lean into the smarminess and why is

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Speaker 2: astness of his persona Like I thought he's really good

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Speaker 2: in missis b Grind, which is a movie just really

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Speaker 2: worth checking out.

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Speaker 3: And Wendel so yeah, yeah, the.

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Speaker 2: Guy, Yeah, we can't have one without the other one,

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Speaker 2: I guess you could. But they're good together. They are,

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Speaker 2: And I think I think these movies make good use

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Speaker 2: of what he does. Well. Yeah, I have no objections

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Speaker 2: to Ryan Reynolds. I think he's the best Scott. I

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Speaker 2: don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really important that the Deadpool movies work

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Speaker 1: even if you kind of loathe him, Like, even if

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Speaker 1: you think he's obnoxious and juvenile, that his shtick is dumb,

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Speaker 1: Like the movie wants you to be on the movie's side.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily have to have you on his side,

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Speaker 1: because you can see that everybody in the film who

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Speaker 1: is more reasonable or more nuanced or more intelligent, like

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Speaker 1: finds him kind of tiresome, and like that's that provides

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Speaker 1: so much interesting tension, Like you can put yourself in

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Speaker 1: different places in this movie and still enjoy it without

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Speaker 1: necessarily wanting to be him.

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Speaker 3: But he's still your buddy, He's still the guy. He's

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Speaker 3: still the narrator. He's still the one leading you through

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Speaker 3: the movie. He's he's not my bro, he's your bro.

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Speaker 1: He's not my bro pal.

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Speaker 3: That's the isn't that that his narrator role as being Hey,

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Speaker 3: come with me. I'm gonna show you how this whole

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Speaker 3: thing works. I mean, I just think you have to

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Speaker 3: have a certain amount of affection for him. In order

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Speaker 3: for these films to work.

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Speaker 1: You have to find him so much charming. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to find him one hundred percent charming. I think

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Speaker 1: these films will still work if you only find him

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Speaker 1: twenty percent charming. I think they'll work if you find

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Speaker 1: him one hundred percent charming. Like, I think you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to find him at least as repellent as he is

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Speaker 1: like appealing, and that's just part of the fun of it.

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Speaker 4: It's also kind of part of the Deadpool character, you know,

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Speaker 4: Like Reynolds is a good fit for Deadpool, Like there's

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Speaker 4: a reason that he agitated to get these movies made,

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Speaker 4: to have another shot at the character after Wolverine Origins,

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Speaker 4: which the credits scene also lampoons, Like Deadpool is a

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Speaker 4: good fit for Ryan Reynolds for the both the good

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Speaker 4: and the bad about his personality.

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Speaker 3: How about Green Lantern? Do you say that a good fit?

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Speaker 3: That's my favorite joke in the whole movie. It's the

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Speaker 3: very end.

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Speaker 2: There's a big time kid.

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Speaker 1: I think it's funny that he's openly embraced mocking how

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Speaker 1: bad that movie is. I mean, it is so not

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Speaker 1: done in Hollywood to bite the hand that feeds you,

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Speaker 1: if you can prevent biting the hand that feeds you

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Speaker 1: at all, And so people are forced to walk around

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Speaker 1: pretending that stinkers that they were in that were not

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Speaker 1: what they signed up for, not what they wanted to

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Speaker 1: be still have some kind of merit. And the fact

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Speaker 1: that he's been able to just say, like, this was

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Speaker 1: a terrible movie and I'm embarrassed by it.

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Speaker 3: It is really rare. That's why we always like to

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Speaker 3: interview people at the end of their career say oh wait,

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Speaker 3: I don't have to I don't have to pretend that

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Speaker 3: this movie was bad. You know. Rip Margot Kidder, that

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Speaker 3: interview with her was all her slagging all of her

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Speaker 3: bad movies.

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Speaker 1: I think that in superhero movies there is often a

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Speaker 1: tension between how much we like the character and how

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Speaker 1: much we find the character. The protagonists annoying because they're

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Speaker 1: so goody goody, or because they're so obsessive. You know,

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Speaker 1: with Batman there's always that kind of like he's exciting

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Speaker 1: and thrilling, and we want to be him, but he's

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Speaker 1: also a nutcase who dresses up like a rodent in

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Speaker 1: order to beat people up because his mommy and daddy died.

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Speaker 1: Like there's always that tension of how much can we

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Speaker 1: believe this character, how much can we buy into this

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Speaker 1: character psyche, how much can we get a little tired

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Speaker 1: of like the relentless do goodery. I think that's one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons we embrace villains so much, because they're

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Speaker 1: often more fun than heroes. Deadpool gets to be hero

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Speaker 1: and a villain, and he kind of epitomizes that tension,

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Speaker 1: like he's not a good guy and we don't have

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Speaker 1: to like feel uplifted by him. We can just watch

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Speaker 1: him behave badly and always enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting, maybe a little outside the scope

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Speaker 2: of discussion, but there haven't been that many comic book

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Speaker 2: characters to break through to the mainstream that weren't created,

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Speaker 2: you know, back in the the sixties and seventies. In

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Speaker 2: the latest like Wolverine was kind of the last one

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Speaker 2: for a while, hell Boy sort of, but also the

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Speaker 2: more recent ones have been Deadpool and Harley Quinn both

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Speaker 2: to have like sort of this special well, Harley Moore

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Speaker 2: in the comics than any live action versions, but kind

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Speaker 2: of breaking the fourth wall, self aware, making fun of

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Speaker 2: comics tropes, kind of thing I wonder. I don't have

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Speaker 2: a theory as to why that is, but I think

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a curious thing to pay attention to.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you could probably guess why that is. I

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Speaker 3: think the way people receive culture is I think much

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Speaker 3: different now than it would have been, you know, forty

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Speaker 3: years ago.

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Speaker 1: There's also I think there's often a humorlessness about fandoms.

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Speaker 1: There's a feeling of if you don't like this thing

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Speaker 1: that I love, there's something wrong with you. And some

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Speaker 1: of that can come in the form of, like, how

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Speaker 1: dare you in any way critique this thing that I love?

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Speaker 1: If you can have something that's so much within the fandom,

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Speaker 1: if it's unquestionably a part of the fandom, and it's

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Speaker 1: making fun of the fandom, sometimes it can be sort

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Speaker 1: of a way of like, we're laughing at this, but

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Speaker 1: it's safe. Like we're not saying that comics suck. We

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Speaker 1: love comics, but Deadpool can say they suck and it's

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Speaker 1: okay because he's part of the genre. He's part of

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00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 1: the milieu. He's doing the hero things. He's just doing

436
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: them while making fun of them in a way that

437
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: doesn't kick fanboys out or look down on them.

438
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 3: Well, we want to talk more about films that break

439
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 3: themselves down, so we'll be right back after the break

440
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 3: to talk about the connections between Gremlin's two and Deadpool two.

441
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 3: This is the fifth incident. This kid needs to be

442
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 3: in the ice box, not here.

443
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 2: Russell Pavones, in our care, not in prison. I assure

444
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 2: you we have everything under control.

445
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 3: You're not getting a real under control vibe here, Marty.

446
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,439
Speaker 2: It is Glenn, isn't it Daniel.

447
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 4: I'll ask the questions.

448
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 3: Let me talk to the kid.

449
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: You stay here with your weird sacred sex lips.

450
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 3: You want to die adorable.

451
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 1: I don't know why I packed the hollow points five

452
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 1: balls off? Did you just say hollow points? Yeah?

453
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 3: Probably should have brought a super soaker. Hi, there step Echo,

454
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 3: justin baby dies Ha, justin Bieber.

455
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 2: He called you justin Bieber.

456
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait, wait, okay, let's let's not do whatever

457
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: that is.

458
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 3: Okay, let's just talk.

459
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: It's Russell right, fire fist fire fist Ooh that's a

460
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 1: great Nate.

461
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 3: Where does it burn?

462
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 1: Just the fist or all the way up to the album.

463
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 3: And now it's time for connections when we bring these

464
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 3: two films together and talk about all the things they

465
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 3: have in common. And I think the first thing we

466
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 3: should probably talk about is the references on display, because

467
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 3: both of these films make a tremendous amount of reference

468
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 3: not just to themselves, but also to a range of

469
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 3: other films and cultural items. How would you compare in

470
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 3: contrastes movie.

471
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons I like the referential

472
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,239
Speaker 1: structure in Deadpool two better than in Gremlins two is

473
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: because in Deadpool two, it's coming from a character, you know,

474
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: when he references Infinity War by calling Josh Berlin Thanos,

475
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: when he talks about how Rob Eifeld can't draw feet.

476
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,959
Speaker 1: Whatever it is that he's referencing is coming from like

477
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: a specific person on screen who has a sensibility that's

478
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: being expressed. Whereas with Joe Dante just kind of throwing

479
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: out like, you know, here's a gremlin doing Marathon Man,

480
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 1: here's a gremlin doing Wizard of Oz. What have you

481
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 1: for me? That's it's like the director leaning into screen

482
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: like MST three K style and saying movies guys, hey

483
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: what and it just I don't know, it feels it

484
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: feels more like he's interfering with me trying to watch

485
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: a movie than like I'm trying to watch a movie.

486
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: Like the approaches are so different because they come from

487
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: one of them comes from offscreen, one of them comes

488
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: from on screen.

489
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 3: Well, I guess I would counter that by saying that,

490
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 3: I think for one, that you know, you know, Dante

491
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 3: doesn't need a character to express these things because he

492
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 3: the filmmaker is expressing them with images at visual gags.

493
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 2: So I think it's all I think a twenty four

494
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 2: frames per second.

495
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 3: I'm just saying this is it's coming directly, it's coming

496
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 3: from this is. Gremlin's two is so much an expression

497
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 3: of its creators, you know, obsessions and interests and excitement

498
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 3: over certain films and styles of filmmaking, that I don't

499
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 3: feel like it needs to be mediated by any one

500
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 3: person on screen. The other thing, too, is it's just

501
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 3: it's just so quirky. I mean, I mentioned mon uncle

502
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 3: of being a big influence, and then you have, you know,

503
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 3: stuff like you have fifties science fiction and the character

504
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 3: of Grandpa Fred and that whole tradition that he represents,

505
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 3: which is something that Dante really embraces in Loves. You know,

506
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 3: there's some obvious references, but some of the reference the

507
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: way these references are made are very clever. Like I

508
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 3: think the King Kong reference, for example, in Grenlins is

509
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 3: really fun. It's like it's a model building, but then

510
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 3: it's like a mobile that's with the airplanes overhead. It's

511
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: very it's cute. So I think Donte's just drawing from

512
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 3: a quirkier and more idiosyncratic range of reference points and

513
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 3: doing it a lot off, giving you a lot of

514
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: different looks if I'm comparing any contrasting. But could can

515
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 3: someone say someone counted all the film references in Deadpool too?

516
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: Because there's there's a ton of them, Are there? Are there?

517
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: I mean, like I couldn't begin. Yeah, May talent and

518
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 3: mister Ripley references.

519
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: There's a character the Two Yokels that Cable kills or

520
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: played by Alan Tuddyuck and quote unquote Dicky Greenleaf, which

521
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 2: I believe has been confirmed as Matt Damon.

522
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 4: I miss that.

523
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, me too, me too.

524
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: I didn't even recognize Brad Pitt in it.

525
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, Brad Pitt, I got somebody, but Brett brad Pitt

526
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: is the reason I haven't been clicking on all those

527
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: Here's a celebrity cameo and Deadpool. You probably missed kind

528
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: of articles which I hate. I know, I just assume

529
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: that they're like I don't know, I just always get

530
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 1: a doctor Hibbert on the Simpsons. I wonder if anyone

531
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: else caught that kind of feeling. But well, now I

532
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: feel bad because I completely that completely went over my head.

533
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 4: To go back to referential style. I can't believe I'm

534
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 4: about to use this term in a reference to Gremlins too.

535
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 4: But I do think the way the references are deployed

536
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 4: in Gremlins are a little more naturalistic in that they

537
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 4: are not overtly commented on to the extent that they

538
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 4: are in Deadpool two, Like there's a lot that goes

539
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 4: on without comment, and Deadpool two, to be sure, like

540
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 4: including some things that we have just mentioned, but there's

541
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 4: a general sense of general sense of like nudging you

542
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 4: in the ribs and like, eh, eh see what's going

543
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 4: on here? You know you get it. And in Gremlins too,

544
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 4: the references I feel are more there for you to

545
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 4: pick up or not, like you've already mentioned several things

546
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 4: that I completely missed in my single viewing of this film,

547
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 4: you know, And part of it is because they're not

548
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 4: reference is that I'm familiar with, and part of it

549
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 4: is just because I miss them in the moment, you know.

550
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 4: But the referentiality in Gremlins two just feels a lot more,

551
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 4: And in this it basically confirms what Tasha says, just

552
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 4: in a different way. But it's part of the film

553
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 4: rather than a part of the character. In Deadpool, you

554
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 4: have the character who is sort of like leading you

555
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 4: through and holding your hand and sort of telling you

556
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 4: how to feel about these references in a way that

557
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 4: we don't really have it in Gremlins too.

558
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, But at the same time, like you don't have

559
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: to know the history of Shatterstars, Zeitgeist, or Domino to

560
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: appreciate that action sequence, you do kind of have to

561
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: know Marathon Man to understand why it's meant to be

562
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: funny that a gremlin drilling Zach Gallaghan's teeth says, is

563
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: it safe? Like that is a reference that doesn't land

564
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: or have any meaning whatsoever unless you get it, Whereas

565
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: like all of the stuff sandwiched in a Deadpool, I think,

566
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: for the most part, is part of an action narrative

567
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: that works even if half the references fly over your head.

568
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: I'm sure to based on the obscurity of some of

569
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: the stuff that I got that there's a ton of

570
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: stuff in Deadpool too that I just didn't get.

571
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I appreciate both films in that respect

572
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 3: that they both do make obvious references, but they they're

573
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 3: also willing to kind of go off and not necessarily

574
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 3: care whether you're going to pick up on it or not.

575
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 3: They're just going to power through and put something on there,

576
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 3: just to put it on there, and if you get it,

577
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 3: you get it. If you don't, you don't. They're going

578
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 3: to move on because it allows for you to be

579
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 3: kind of delighted by surprising elements like like if you'll recall,

580
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 3: you know, in Gremlins too, when the film breaks down

581
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 3: and then it restarts, you get this, this weird sudden

582
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 3: worshipper Films presents volleyball holiday. I mean, that's just that

583
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 3: is such a you know, which I'm sure that's a

584
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 3: reference to some tradition of kind of industrial exploitation films.

585
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: Documentaries and making finger quotes about nudist colonies or popular

586
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: exploitations of genre at the.

587
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: Time, right, I mean, and here it is, and here

588
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 3: it is in a sequel to a family hit called Gremlins.

589
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: So it's it's nice to have those sorts of elements there,

590
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 3: and I appreciate the sophistication of both films in that respect.

591
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 4: There's also an element in both films of studio referentiality.

592
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 4: Like we talked about how Dante kind of was able

593
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 4: to use Looney Tunes bumpers because of being a Warner

594
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 4: Brothers And there's a lot, a lot, a lot of

595
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 4: stuff about the X Men films in Deadpool two, which

596
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 4: I guess is technically an x Men film, you know,

597
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 4: but it is definitely outside of the X Men universe proper.

598
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 4: I guess men don't talk about it. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

599
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 4: But because it is a part of that same you know,

600
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 4: studio and has this is part of the same rights structure,

601
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 4: you know, it is able to make those references in

602
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 4: a way that that makes more sense to the film

603
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 4: than the Looney Tunes references do in Gremlins too, But

604
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 4: they're they're kind of born of the same position these

605
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: films are in.

606
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that moment where the X Men quietly shut the door,

607
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: shutting Deadpool out so he doesn't realize they're there. Is

608
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: just it's such a beautiful thing. But it also really

609
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: is symbolic of you're going to operate over here in

610
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: your universe. We're going to be over here doing serious

611
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: things about racism and civil rights and aids and stuff.

612
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: One trick both of these films, Paul, I guess Deadpool

613
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 3: more rigorously than Gremlins two, would be breaking the fourth

614
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: wall and addressing in the audience. I mean, this is

615
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: something that is a part of Deadpool. He's talking to you,

616
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: and the fourth wall breaking in Gremlins is really mostly

617
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: the film breaking sequence, but there's a little bit more.

618
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: Is that something we should chat about?

619
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think one of the sort of

620
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: interesting things about the whole film breaking sequence is that

621
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: I feel like it requires you to have some clue

622
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: who hul Cogan is or who he was at the time.

623
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: But even if you don't, here's this big comedic character

624
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: who's basically looking out at you and saying, you know,

625
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: don't worry, it won't happen again. The film will not

626
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: fail you in this specific way again. I promise there's

627
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: a daringness to that a kind of a teeming of

628
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: like the film and the audience, we're on the same

629
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: page here. You didn't want this to fall apart. We

630
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: fixed it, like go back and sit down. And I

631
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: feel like Deadpool does Deadpool two does a lot of

632
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: the same. Well, both Deadpools really do a lot of

633
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: the same kind of thing. I feel like when the

634
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: Deadpool movies least work for me, it's when that kind

635
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: of forced teeming that we're both on the same side

636
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: here doesn't accurately represent like what I'm actually feeling or

637
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,719
Speaker 1: thinking about the movie. One of the reasons the Fridging

638
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: gag doesn't work for me is because we go directly

639
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: from that into the opening credits, which you know, much

640
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: like the first film, are full of fake outs, and

641
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: it just over and over it's expressing did that really

642
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: just happen? Did we really just kill her? Are we

643
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: really such awful people? And it's like, no, that's not

644
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: where my head's at. My head's at really, did you

645
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: really do something that lazy and you think that my

646
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: head is in the space of that was exceptional and

647
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: surprising when it's just a lazy trope. Now, later in

648
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: the film when Juggernaut and Colossus clash and Deadpools like,

649
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: oh goodie, here comes another big CGI fight Like that

650
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: was the movie describing exactly where my head was at,

651
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: and I found that delightful. And I think your mileage

652
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: is going to vary throughout all the fourth wall breaking

653
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: when they're addressing you directly and saying here's what you're thinking,

654
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: here's how you're feeling. If they get it wrong, you

655
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: end up having a very disjointed experience all of the summe.

656
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's kind of what you said before,

657
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: those difference between the film being self aware and then

658
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: a character within the film being self aware. It's just

659
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: sort of a different feeling to it.

660
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 3: One thing to get to the fourth wall breaking in

661
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 3: Grumblin's Too. We've talked about that sequence a lot, but

662
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 3: I will say a byproduct of breaking the fourth wall

663
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 3: is that it makes the audience aware of the film

664
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 3: as not this they're escaping into, but as a film

665
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 3: that is to be picked apart. And so in turn,

666
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 3: that makes us aware of it as a commercial product.

667
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: And so later in the film you kind of have

668
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 3: people walking around in these Mogwai shirts with the X

669
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: cross through like Ghostbusters, or you can have comments about

670
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 3: the suction cups or whatever that you put on cars

671
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: when you're selling these promotional items, you know, I think

672
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: I think it kind of gets you in a nice

673
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: headspace when you have that distance from the filming. It's

674
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 3: such a radical choice to do it, because you really

675
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 3: are giving up a lot when you break the fourth wall.

676
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 3: But if you do it smartly, with which I think

677
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 3: both of these films do, you know, you can give

678
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 3: audiences a different kind of experience.

679
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 4: In Deadpool too, I think some of that comes through

680
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: in its acknowledgment slash ragging of the first film's success

681
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 4: and how it enabled this film to do what it's doing.

682
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 4: There's at least one overt reference to the first Deadpools

683
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 4: like massive box office, I forget, what's.

684
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: The film that had been beat out to pass.

685
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 4: Passion of the Crisis. Yeah, yeah, domestically. So, I guess

686
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 4: kind of a connection I see between these two films

687
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 4: is a certain we can do what we want stance

688
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 4: on the part of the filmmakers, probably much more so

689
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 4: in Joe Dante's case. But I mean, the success of

690
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 4: the first Deadpool movie did give this film a lot

691
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 4: of leeway to push the envelope even further, and it

692
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 4: doesn't go in like quite as a narcic or a

693
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 4: relatively anarchic direction, as Gremlins two does by comparison to

694
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 4: the first Gremlins. But that may also just be because

695
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 4: the first Deadpool was a lot more a narcic to

696
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 4: begin with than the first Gremlins was.

697
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a dangerous position for

698
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: Deadpool to be in because if you fashion yourself as being,

699
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 3: you know, a reverent rule breaking cinema, if you have

700
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 3: a sequel that's more of the same, then you're really

701
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 3: not doing that. You really can't be said to be

702
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 3: that doing that at all. Right. Whereas Gremlins two, I mean,

703
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 3: I think, whether you like it or not, it is

704
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 3: a pretty dramatic departure from what that first film was,

705
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 3: and it was Dante kind of burning through studio coin.

706
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think that it was an act

707
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 3: of malice on Dante's part. I don't think he was

708
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 3: trying to be irresponsible. Really. I think you really genuinely

709
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 3: thought he was making an entertaining film, and I think

710
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 3: he succeeded in doing that. But the films are definitely

711
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 3: different in that I think, and then at Gremlin's two

712
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 3: does represent a pretty bold and dramatic departure from the

713
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 3: previous one in the way that Deadpool two does not.

714
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 2: Deadpool two could have been should have been really serious.

715
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 4: Well, I think interestingly, the Deadpool two is sort of

716
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 4: the inverse and what we've been talking about in terms

717
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 4: of how Gremlin's two distinguish itself, which is, like, I

718
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 4: think it has a comparative sincerity to the first film

719
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 4: in terms of its themes and its story about family

720
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 4: and the character of Russell, And I think there is

721
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 4: a little more heart to Deadpool two and than Deadpool one,

722
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 4: while still being buried behind layers and layers of crass,

723
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 4: vulgarity and frenchiality and smarm. But like its heart feels

724
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 4: bigger than the first Deadpool, whereas Gremlin's two's heart feels

725
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 4: much smaller than the first Gremlins.

726
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: I mean, Deadpool two gives me a lot of cosmic questions, like,

727
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about a universe here where like

728
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: Satan roams around, like not necessarily the cinematic universe, but

729
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: just like Marvel comics, what exactly is this movie's vision

730
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: of the afterlife, like when you die, you get to

731
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: go sit in a rocking chair and be the conscience

732
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: of your boyfriend who comes and visits you every time

733
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: he gets knocked out. Like, I just don't understand what's.

734
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 4: Going on in this movie Cosmic Well, I mean, I

735
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 4: don't know for necessarily supposed to see that as Vanessa's

736
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 4: reality so much as like what Wade sees on the

737
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 4: verge of death. It basically just seems like this film's

738
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 4: version of the white light, like going toward the white light.

739
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 4: You know, I didn't necessarily take it to mean like

740
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 4: that's where Vanessa is in the afterlife, but you know,

741
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 4: I suppose you could certainly interpret it that way, and

742
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 4: that is a much sadder faith than her already sad fate.

743
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: So but I mean, she does give him these you know,

744
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: gnomic prophecies basically that guide him through the movie.

745
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 4: He already knows all that He's just getting it through

746
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 4: the vision of Vanessa.

747
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 2: I'm not so beautiful, I'm gonna say, I think you're

748
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: trying to analyze this further. Is not going.

749
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: You say that. But like one other connection between these

750
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: movies is that they both don't give a crap about

751
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: their own roles. True, and I find that a little

752
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: strange in two movies that are so much about examining

753
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: the previous movies and commenting on them, examining their own

754
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: tropes and laughing at them. Like in Deadpool two, he

755
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: comes back easily and simply from having been blown into

756
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: like dozens and dozens of pieces. But when he gets

757
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: ripped in half, we were subjected to like ten minutes

758
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: of him walking around with a baby butt. Like, Yeah,

759
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what that was all about. With

760
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: the with the Gremlins too thing, I keep being thrown

761
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: by the fact that the brain Gremlins just like we

762
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: have a simple serum here that'll make us immune the sunlight.

763
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stick it in one gremlin and then we're

764
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: done with that blot forever.

765
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 3: Well, it's a mystery that I guess you'll have to

766
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 3: explore on your own. You can find Gremlins two on DVD,

767
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: in Blu Ray and all the various streaming services. Maybe

768
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 3: you can find out on the vhs and really get

769
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 3: a sense of it that way. Dpool Too will be

770
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 3: a theater near you for a while. We'll be right

771
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: back with your Next Picture Show. Finally, it's time to

772
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 3: catch each other up on films or film related to

773
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 3: items we've seen in the interim since our last podcast.

774
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: We call it Your Picture Show and the hopes they'll

775
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 3: put some interesting choices on your radar. Tasha, what in

776
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 3: the film world has been good for you lately?

777
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to take a second to stump again

778
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: for Hunt for the Wilder People, which, if you like

779
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: Julian Dennison in Deadpool two, you can see more of

780
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 1: him doing a different Oh well, you know his character

781
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: and Hunt for the Wilder People cannot catch his hands

782
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: on fire, but he's also playing a troubled youth with

783
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: a charming side to him, and it's a very different

784
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: set of actorly skills, kind of coming from the same

785
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: sensibility in a fun way. But I've already spent in

786
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 1: the entirety of a Your Next Picture Show highly recommending

787
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: Hunt for the Wilder People, So instead I'm going to

788
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: try something entirely different, which is a movie that came

789
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: into theaters in Britain on May eleventh, is going to

790
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: be released in theaters in America on May twenty fifth,

791
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: which should be after the show drops called How to

792
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: talk to girls at parties. It is directed by and

793
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: co written by John Cameron Mitchell, who is the writer,

794
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: director star of A Headwig and the Angry Inch and

795
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 1: Short Bus. It's an adaptation sort of of a Neil

796
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: Gaman short story in which a bunch of kind of

797
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: hapless teenage boys crash a party basically trying to get

798
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: into some women's pants and don't realize that they've crashed

799
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: the wrong party and that the women that they're talking

800
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: to are aliens. And it's the short story which is

801
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: available for free online at Neil Gayman's website if you

802
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: want to go find it. It's kind of about the

803
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: idea that women are unfathomable to teenage boys, and there's

804
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: a weird thing in there that's basically like, you know, girl,

805
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: girls are not to be understood. There's some kind of

806
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: cosmic mystery, and it's kind of distancing in a way.

807
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: The movie sort of draws on that idea, puts it

808
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: into basically Neil Gaman's past, like his own personal past

809
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: as a punk growing up in like the suburbs of

810
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: London in the nineteen seventies. It takes that set and

811
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: turns it into a very John Cameron Mitchell story about

812
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: a punk rock in the emotion of music and like

813
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: the feeling of anarchy that becomes with being a teenager

814
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: trying to find your way in the world. It is

815
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: rough in some ways. It is very, very far from

816
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: a perfect movie. Our friend Vicarim I believe called it

817
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: complete and hotter bullshit. He was not at all. No, no,

818
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: he does not seem to have liked it quite so much.

819
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: I don't know for me. There's just there's an energy

820
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: to it that's a lot of fun. Nicole Kidman is

821
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: in it. Matt Lucas plays one of the aliens. There's

822
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: a whole Mitchell introduces a whole kind of like cosmic

823
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: element to it that becomes kind of about the generational

824
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: gap in the same kind of way that the Origins

825
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: of Love segment from Hedwig and the Angry Inch sets

826
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: out this grand mythology that explains, like human kind, there

827
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: are things that happen in how to talk to girls

828
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: at parties, which seems to be kind of trying to

829
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: set out like a giant cosmic explanation for why the

830
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: generation gap exists, for how young people and old people

831
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: can't relate, for what it takes to be defined as

832
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: a person. It stars El Fanning and Alex Sharp. Alex

833
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: Sharp was the kind of love interest character and Marty

834
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: Knoxen's to the bone, and el Fanning is in everything

835
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: and is usually pretty delightful. He's the young teenage boy

836
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: that crashes the wrong party. She's the rebellious alien that

837
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: kind of wants to make her mark on the world

838
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: before she goes back to space. They're a Romeo and

839
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: Juliet story, and that goes in the direction that Romeo

840
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: and Juliet stories tend to go, with a couple of

841
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: really interesting twists to it. So it's rough, it's ramshackle,

842
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 1: it's a little over the top, I guess. But Mitchell

843
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: is entirely sincere about the emotions going on, and he

844
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: describes this as the science fiction goth love story that

845
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: he would have wanted to see at age sixteen, and

846
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: I just I think there's both a real energy to

847
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: it and a real interest in that so how to

848
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: talk to Girls at Parties. It comes out on May

849
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: eleventh in the UK. It comes out on May twenty

850
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: fifth here in the States. And frankly, it's a small

851
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: enough movie that I would be very surprised if it

852
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: isn't on vod pretty soon after that?

853
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 2: Was it a pro short story? First, I've read the comic.

854
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: I wasn't aware there was a comic. I don't know

855
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: which came first, but I mean I do know that

856
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: it's available online right now. The short story.

857
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 3: Okay, Genevieve, how about you?

858
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 4: Okay? Well, back at the end of last year, when

859
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 4: we were all cramming for our Best Films of the

860
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 4: Year list, there was one movie that I was really

861
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 4: eager to see, but couldn't get to a screening or

862
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 4: get my hands on a screener of it. So I

863
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 4: missed out on a twenty seventeen film that I suspected

864
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 4: i'd really enjoy, And now that it's streaming on Netflix,

865
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 4: I can confirm that I did, in fact enjoy the

866
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 4: documentary Faces Places, The film by legendary Belgian director Agnes

867
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 4: Varda and French street artist Jr. Made its way through

868
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 4: the festival and awards seasoned circuits, often accompanied by a

869
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 4: cardboard cutout of Varda that became a meme unto itself.

870
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 4: So you've probably at least heard of it or seen

871
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 4: a cup of it at the Oscars. It was nominated,

872
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 4: but if you haven't. It follows Varda and JR. On

873
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 4: an extension of Jr's Inside Out project, where they roam

874
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 4: the villages of France, making large scale portraits of people

875
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 4: they meet and talk to, and then paste them onto

876
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 4: buildings in those villages. It takes a sort of vignette

877
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 4: based structure that's less about establishing a chronology or a

878
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 4: narrative and more about exploring some of each artist's favored

879
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 4: themes and artistic obsessions. It's a very fleet and frequently

880
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 4: playful film, but it doesn't feel lightweight or disposable. There's

881
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 4: a sincerity in humanity to Varda and Jr's artistic impulse here,

882
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 4: and it comes through in their discussions with French citizens

883
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 4: as well as each other. In fact, the relationship that

884
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 4: blossoms between Varda and JR, who are separated in age

885
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 4: by fifty five years, is one of the film's most

886
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 4: delightful and surprisingly tender elements. But delightful and surprising tender

887
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 4: would easily apply too much of this film, and I'd

888
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 4: highly recommend you seek it out if you managed to

889
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 4: miss its theatrical run faces places. It's now streaming on Netflix.

890
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 4: I think have all of you seen it?

891
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yep, terrific.

892
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 1: Youp heard great things.

893
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 3: Oh you love it. It's it's not gonna take much

894
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 3: of your time.

895
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 4: No, it's ninety minutes, very easy watch. You know, subtitles,

896
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 4: but you can handle that.

897
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 2: I think maybe mad at John Luke Goodard, I.

898
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 4: Know, yeah, like I don't really, I don't want to

899
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 4: spoil the Godard element of the film, but it will, Yes,

900
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 4: it will make you mad at him probably.

901
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very good Dardian thing for him. Yes,

902
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 3: tribute to be that big of a jerk.

903
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: Keith Well for the highest thing I could possibly recommend

904
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: right now is going to see two thousand and one,

905
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 2: A space honesty and seventy milimeter playing theaters across the country.

906
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 2: It's these unrestored version overseeing by Christopher Nolan's. Unrestored means

907
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 2: unrestored in this case means that it's kind of complicated.

908
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: But in nineteen ninety nine, Warner Brothers made some Inner Positives,

909
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 2: which is sort of a off way process between a

910
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 2: negative and a new print, and never really did anything

911
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: with it, and they kind of just went in and

912
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 2: cleaned it up without sort of doing a digital work

913
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 2: on it at all and it looked great. It was

914
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 2: just one of my favorite movies of all time. Should

915
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: be seen on the biggest screen possible and just totally

916
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 2: transporting to see it in seventy millimeters. We saw a

917
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 2: print last year of seventy millimeter and it also looked

918
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,720
Speaker 2: very good. You know, I think it might be recency biased,

919
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 2: but I think this looks maybe smidge better. But it

920
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 2: was just a really cool to see in the theater

921
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 2: with a bunch of people. But I'll recommend a different

922
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: movie which will be on HBO at this point, which

923
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 2: is The Tail, which is by Jennifer Fox, which was

924
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 2: a big deal movie at Sundance this year. It was

925
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 2: not actually picked up for theatrical distribution. I was picked

926
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: up by HBO, and Fox has said she's okay with

927
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: that because she's worried that people would not want to

928
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,959
Speaker 2: go out and see this. It's a very difficult subject matter.

929
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 2: It's a very difficult film to watch. I think it's rewarded.

930
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: I think some elements are a little clunkier than others,

931
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 2: but for the most part, it works extremely well. It

932
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: starts Laura darn as Jennifer Fox, based on her actual

933
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 2: story of sort of remembering or kind of reframing what

934
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 2: happened to her at the age of thirteen in less

935
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: romanticized terms than she thought it had. And I don't

936
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 2: want to give too much away, but it's about sexual abuse,

937
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 2: and it is about largely setting the motion as it

938
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 2: was for Fox in real life, by her mother discovering

939
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: a story she had written, which is sort of a

940
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 2: thinly veiled account of what happened to her and how

941
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: time had played tricks with her over the years, and

942
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 2: involves during interacting with a younger version herself by actress

943
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: name Isabelle and Elise, who's quite good as well. And

944
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 2: it does some interesting things with twisting perceptions and showing

945
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 2: how memory can distort things. And it is a definition

946
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: of a tough set. It is a tough film to watch,

947
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 2: but I think it's worth anyone's time.

948
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I really I'm interested in that one for myself.

949
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 3: I have a couple of little recommendations and one official recommendation.

950
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,479
Speaker 3: I mean one, I if you're the type of person

951
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 3: who likes Joe Dante and likes spoofs and likes Paul

952
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 3: Bartel and Joe Dante spoofs, I think you should probably

953
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 3: take a look at Hollywood Boulevard, his nineteen seventy sixth film,

954
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 3: which is basically about making Roger Corman movies. It's very

955
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 3: wacky and full of footage from movies that Corman had made.

956
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 3: There's a production company called Miracle Pictures that they're making

957
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 3: movies for and that the line for that studio is

958
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 3: if it's a good picture, it's a miracle. So I

959
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 3: have a lot of affection for it. And so if

960
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 3: you like Dante and you like the sensibility of Gremlin's

961
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 3: too it, I would check that out. The other thing

962
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 3: I would say is Philip Roth died by the time

963
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 3: this recording happens, and he died last week. But I

964
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 3: thought the recent adaptation of his work film called Indignation,

965
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: that was made a couple of years ago, it's like

966
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 3: the one film that got his voice right at a

967
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 3: minimument has one very very long scene between Logan Luhrman

968
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 3: and Tracy Letz. That's one of my favorite scenes of

969
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 3: the last several years. So I think that one's pretty

970
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 3: easy to find out there, and if you haven't seen it,

971
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 3: I would strongly check it out. If you like Philip

972
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 3: Roth and I guess my official recommendation. You know. I've

973
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,240
Speaker 3: talked about how I will make these little lists for

974
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,399
Speaker 3: watching for filmmakers who are still with us but may

975
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 3: not be with us forever. I did one on John Borman,

976
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 3: which led me to a film called Queen and Country.

977
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: That's the most recent film of his. I could bring

978
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 3: myself to recommend it from twenty fourteen, and it's his

979
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 3: sequel to Hope and Glory, which is an absolute masterpiece.

980
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 3: It's a very personal film about a boy, you know,

981
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 3: growing up, you know, in suburban London during the Blitz,

982
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: and it's funny and it's got a really it's got

983
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 3: just a boy's perspective, which is that it's this great adventure,

984
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 3: but it's also of course very traumatic for his family,

985
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 3: and it's just got a really wonderful and unique tone

986
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 3: to it. Queen and Country doesn't have the stakes of

987
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 3: Hope and Glory, and it's not as it's not as

988
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 3: good as Hope and Glory, but there's still a lot

989
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 3: of elements that are the same. I mean, in this case,

990
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 3: the boy is now an eighteen year old who's called

991
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 3: up to the Armed Services as the country is engaged

992
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 3: in the Korean War, but while most of his fellow

993
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 3: conscripts are shipped off to the front lines, he and

994
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: his buddy played by Caleb Landry Jones of all people

995
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 3: stay behind to teach typing, and the worst action they

996
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 3: see have to do with sort of the petty grievances

997
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 3: of their superiors, who are all guys who had served

998
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,240
Speaker 3: in World War Two and are extremely strung as a result.

999
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 3: It is a not a film of, like I said,

1000
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 3: high stakes, but it is very funny and prankish in

1001
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 3: a very warm and nice continuation of an excellent film.

1002
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 3: So if you'd like Hope and Glory, I think it's

1003
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,439
Speaker 3: really worth checking out Queen and Country as well. Great

1004
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 3: personal filmmaking from John Borman.

1005
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 4: I think you recommended Hope and Glory for a previous

1006
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 4: YU relature show, so this is appropriately a sequel.

1007
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that I didn't realize that I was,

1008
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 3: and I think it was like so amped by revisiting

1009
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 3: Hope and Glory that I guess I had to go

1010
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 3: to Borman again. So three things Hollywood, Bilevard, Indignation, Queen

1011
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 3: and Country.

1012
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 2: Do you have a fourth? Seems like you're you're, you're,

1013
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 2: you're being able scampy this way.

1014
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 3: I was gonna I was going to recommend Magic, but

1015
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 3: it's it's not really available easily on streaming.

1016
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 4: I think given that we talked about it briefly that

1017
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 4: I know at least three of us at this table

1018
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 4: would recommend The Nines as.

1019
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 3: Tasha's go to.

1020
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is. I watched it because of Tasha,

1021
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 4: and I fully recommend it myself.

1022
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 3: John August It's just oh yeah.

1023
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of the reasons I have such

1024
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: enduring respect for John August. And it's also I love

1025
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: a film that surprises me. And that film if you

1026
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: if you walk into it without knowing what you're getting into,

1027
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: I guarantee it'll surprise you.

1028
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 4: Bonus bonus your.

1029
00:51:52,560 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 3: Next Picture Show. And that's it for this week edition

1030
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 3: of The Next Picture Show. Our next episodes come out

1031
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 3: June twelfth and fourteenth. Keith, what are we discussing?

1032
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: Next time? We'll be visiting not one, but two of

1033
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: God's Lonely Men with a double features from the pen

1034
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 2: of Paul Schrader. First, we'll look at the Martin Scorsese

1035
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 2: director nineteen seventy six classic Taxi Driver starring Robert Niro,

1036
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 2: as a Cabby who sees seventies Manhattan as a place

1037
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,720
Speaker 2: of sin and degradation. Then we'll discuss First Reform. Trader's

1038
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: latest is writer and director and Ethan Hawk starring film

1039
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 2: that's earning Traders from the best reviews of his career.

1040
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 2: In de Niro's Taxi Driver and Hawk's Smalltown Pastor, Strader

1041
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,839
Speaker 2: offers a vision of alienation and violence that has covered

1042
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 2: the four decade expanse of his career. Are you talking

1043
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 2: to me? You might ask, Yes, the Next Picture Show

1044
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: is talking to you.

1045
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 3: In the meantime, that's very dramatic. In the meantime, we'd

1046
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 3: love to hear your feedback on this week's discussion of

1047
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 3: Gremlin's two, Deadpool two, and anything else from related you'd

1048
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 3: like to talk about. We want to include your thoughts

1049
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 3: on future episodes of the show. You can leave a

1050
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: short voicemail at seven seven three two three four nine

1051
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 3: seven three zero or email us at How's at Next

1052
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 3: Picture Show dot net. We may post your response on

1053
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 3: Facebook for discussion or read it on a future episode

1054
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 3: of the show. Finally, before closing out this week's episode,

1055
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 3: where can we find everyone these days? Genevieve, you can.

1056
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 4: Find my work at the culture section at vox dot com,

1057
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 4: and you can find me on Twitter at Genevieve Kowski.

1058
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,959
Speaker 1: Tasha, you can find me writing about film and TV

1059
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: and running a bunch of people who are also writing

1060
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 1: about film and TV. Is the film and TV editor

1061
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: at The Verge dot com. You can find me on

1062
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: Twitter at Tasha Robinson.

1063
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: Keith, I'm just a writer for hire. I'm out there.

1064
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: You know.

1065
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 4: I hired Keith today Philip Roth, rememberan.

1066
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: I hired Keith earlier this week to write about how

1067
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: two thousand and one a Space Odyssey is Christopher Nolan's

1068
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: wet dream of analog movies making this and.

1069
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 2: They hardly endorse me right away. You can find my

1070
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 2: writing currently at Well, Vox, The Verge, Vulture.

1071
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 3: He only writes for v outlets.

1072
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, a couple other places coming up, so Danity

1073
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,040
Speaker 2: Fair and you can find not yet, not yet. He

1074
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: hit me up, any Fair, I'll write for you, sure, Yeah,

1075
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 2: happy to write for are our premiere trade publication. You

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Speaker 2: can find me on Twitter at kfif three thousand Scott.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I like that. We're now going to both have

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00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:20,439
Speaker 3: just a random assortment of publications. Well, you can find

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00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 3: me on Twitter at Scotland escort to bias, so you

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00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 3: can find my work at New York Times, Washington Post,

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00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 3: NPR and other fine publications. You can stay updated on

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Speaker 3: the Next Picture Show by visiting Next Picture Show dot Net,

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00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 3: via Twitter at Next Picture Pod, and via Facebook at

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Speaker 3: Facebook dot com slash Next Picture Show. And if you

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Speaker 3: haven't subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts already, please

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Speaker 3: consider it. Apple podcast subscriptions are an important part of

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00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 3: getting podcasts more prominence and more listeners. And while you're there,

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Speaker 3: we appreciate every rating and review. Every thumbs up helps

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Speaker 3: us find new listeners and keep the show going. Thanks

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00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 3: to Dan the Snake Jakes for his assistants producing this podcast,

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Speaker 3: and thanks to me for providing a recording space at

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Speaker 3: my home base, Sweden, Will and Studios. Thanks to your

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Speaker 3: wife for letting us yeah that's true. Thanks for my

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Speaker 3: wife and my Thanks for my kids for kind of

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Speaker 3: going upstairs to create a lot of racket instead of

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Speaker 3: bothering us down here.

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Speaker 1: And thanks to the fourth Wall, which you just thoroughly birth.

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Speaker 3: That's right. The Next Picture Show is proud to be

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Speaker 3: part of the Film Spotting family of podcasts and the

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Speaker 3: Panaple network. Please tune in next time