WEBVTT - What are Anonymous and 4Chan? 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.920 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:18.120 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello there, everybody, 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.759 and welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Polette, 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:22.920 and I am the tech editor here at how stuff 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.040 works dot com. Across from me sitting there, would they 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:29.880 be mused expression as usual would be senior writer Jonathan Strickland. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.440 Hey there, and today we wanted to talk about a 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.159 very interesting group of people. But I think you have 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.520 something to read to us first. Yes, actually, this topic 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:45.800 comes to us courtesy of a little listener mail. This 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.880 list your mail comes to us from Jack, and Jack says, 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.600 Dear tech Stuff, I believe a discussion on the subject 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.320 of four Chan, the Japanese image board, and the internet 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.800 group anonymous is more than overdue. They have been in 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:59.960 the news several times and are very important in the 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:05.240 Internet community. Please consider my request. Thank you, Jack Um. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.560 All right, Jack, I actually wrote back to Jack earlier. 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.840 Uh this he he requested this um early in November 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:14.880 of two thousand nine, So we're just now getting to it. 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.480 The reason why we're slow getting to it, well, there's 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.080 a couple of reasons. One is just that we have 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.280 a lot of topics on our topic list that you know, 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.800 to work our way through. But another is that we 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:27.480 had to really think about whether or not we were 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:32.480 going to tackle this one because the subjects are somewhat controversial. Yes, definitely. 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.759 So as a matter of fact, he wrote about this 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.960 not terribly long ago. Yes, I I did it under 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.959 a pseudonym. No, No, I didn't. I actually put my 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.040 name to it. Um well, in a way I wrote 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:49.560 about a related subject. Right, Because again, this is this 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.280 is controversial on multiple levels. Let's let's start with the 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.600 very basics with four chan before we talk about anything else. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.560 That's true actually that the idea behind four chan is 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.320 is not particularly controversial at all. No, it's it's like 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.720 many other websites on the web. It's was designed to 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.280 be a community, an image uh an image posting community primarily, 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.400 rather than a lot of other message boards in which 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:19.480 you would post uh, you know, written material. Theoretically, the 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:21.840 idea was, you know, I guess the idea behind it 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.000 being something along lines of a picture is worth a 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.560 thousand words. You would post a photo or an image 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.480 of some kind to express your your thoughts, and they 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:31.960 were mainly in the case of four chan, it was 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:37.200 all about really kind of a Japanese animation as well 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:42.120 as UH manga, the the illustrated. Essentially, they're like comic 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.960 books or graphic novels, um but you know, they they 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:51.080 and they they range from very simple stories for for 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.480 kids all the way up to material that specifically meant 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.440 for adult consumption. It's not you know, these aren't necessarily 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.720 comic books for little kids. A lot of people hear 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.000 the phrase comic books even today and still think, oh, 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.280 that's something that little kids enjoy. But in fact, you know, 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.400 they're just like in the United States, the comic books 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:13.079 in Japan cater to all different age groups and demographics, 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:15.520 and UH four chane was kind of a place where 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.480 people who enjoyed this sort of art could share that 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.760 kind of UH enthusiasm with each other. UM. And one 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:28.120 of the interesting things about four chan is that it 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:34.359 would allow people to post content without any identification whatsoever. 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.520 You didn't have to register a handle or anything like 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.880 that in order to go to four chan and contribute, 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.720 which is UH very different from most other communities. And 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.680 other communities, of course, you want to establish an identity 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:50.840 that's how you make friends, it's how people know to 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.520 contact you, it's how you can start up conversations on 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:00.720 four Chan. You could do it completely anonymously with would 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.600 theoretically protect you if you were to say, I don't 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:10.400 know post material that might violate copyright, right, And I 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:14.240 wanted to point out to UM when you mentioned that 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:20.760 there there is adult art. We're not talking about pornography necessarily, 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.760 necessarily because you're just talking about adult themes. Sure, because 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:26.760 that's one of the few. I mean, even though you 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.160 can post post things anonymously, one of the you know, 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.760 you're not theoretically supposed to post pornography if I'm not 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.560 not unless and except in a couple of the couple 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.480 of the rooms within or the sections in four Chune 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.120 do allow you to post stuff, all right, I was 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:45.240 an impresson that was completely forbidden on the same So 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.520 it's only in very specific area, yeah, very specific areas. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.320 It actually tells you which areas are are meant for 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.840 mature audiences. Is kind of I kind of hesitate to 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.200 use that word considering some of the content that shows 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.640 up on Fortune, But you know what I'm talking about, 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.920 right of eighteen or older, let's say there are certain 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.520 sections that are only meant for eighteen or older. Um, 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.440 although one would argue that I think most of the 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.360 people who are on those sections are not that of 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:18.080 that age group, based upon the content and uh commentary 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:24.880 that you find within those sections. Um. Now, the we're 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:26.880 getting into, we're getting We're kind of getting ahead a 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:28.520 little bit. I didn't mean to get ahead. I just 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:33.200 was trying to clarify the adult sure sure the so well, 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.120 like Chris was saying, Yeah, the adult themes don't necessarily 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.080 mean pornography. I mean it's the same way as I 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:43.719 would I would call like Law and Order an adult show. Yeah, 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.520 and and one. It just has themes that that children 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.599 don't grasp. You know, it's more sophisticated than what a child, 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:56.039 uh considers entertainment. So same thing with these these these 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.480 comics and cartoons or anime. I mean, people are gonna 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.080 get upset, but has I'll call it a cartoon or 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.560 a comic book. But I'm just trying to give an 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.320 analog for people who are unfamiliar with the art forms. 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:12.719 Um or I could just called japanamation. Hey man, that's 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:14.720 when I was a kid. That's what that's what we 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.960 called it. I remember that I was saying, you probably 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.280 earned yourself ten listener meals right and in there well 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.120 for calling a japanamation. I used to watch a lot 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.920 of japanamation. I enjoyed japanamation. I remember when there was 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.520 a section of the store that was called Japanimation, back 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:35.600 before Animal became a popular before. Yeah, well, and animal 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.120 is anime is definitely a more a more appropriate term 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.920 because not all of this kind of animation comes from Japan, 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.919 I mean, because that's unfortunately people would use the term 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.240 japanamation to mean animation coming from any Asian country, which 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.800 of course is you know, it's not really accurate. But 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.360 at any rate, um, so four chance a community that 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.240 is mostly based around that, although people began to in 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.200 other interests as well, so it began to flesh out 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.840 a bit, right. It wasn't just things that had to 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.640 do with anime or manga. Um. You had people who 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.440 would bring in stuff about video games and other kinds 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:15.320 of pop culture entertainment, even music things like that. Um. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:20.040 And then there's also a specific channel where anything goes. 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:25.480 It is the Random channel, the slash b channel, and uh, 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.720 it is this channel that probably has gained four Chan 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.560 the notoriety that it has people. When people say four 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.480 chan and they're talking about things like controversy, um or 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:40.280 trolling or anything like that, they're really mainly talking about 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:45.160 this B channel, the random channel where anything goes because 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.120 I think, um, I think Obi wan Kenobi would describe 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:55.160 this channel as a wretched hive of scum and villainy. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.920 I'm not making any kind of judgment on the people 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.720 who go there, but I will say that they enjoy 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.000 winding each other up. Yeah yeah, well, uh, you're not 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.920 the first person to have made that exact comparison. Actually 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.000 found other references were using that exact phrase. It's to 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.000 the random Channel. It's probably in people's signatures and things 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.280 like fortune B Channel, wretched hive of scum and villany. Well, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:21.840 that's the thing. I mean, that's one of the things 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.920 about the Internet in general. A lot of websites uh 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:29.400 produced communities of like minded people, people who have similar interests. 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:31.880 And it makes sense that you know, people who like 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:35.720 to uh uh to wind each other up, as you say, 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.679 would would want to gather somewhere and this is just 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:40.840 an opportunity for them to do that. Yeah, I don't 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.400 I don't necessarily think that the people who are posting 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:51.280 in that channel are particularly sinister or mean spirited. They're 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:56.400 more mischievous than anything else. Now, sometimes this mischief boils 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.600 over into acts that are that go beyond on mischief 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.920 into the realm of being criminal acts um or at 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:09.839 the very least uh questionable, So it goes beyond just 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.880 like ha ha pulled a prank on YouTube while you've 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:17.000 actually caused damage in some way, whether that's you know, 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:22.880 through a calculable monetary unit or psychological damage or emotional 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:27.680 damage or whatever. Um. But they enjoy pushing people's buttons. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.839 Mostly they're pushing each other's buttons because a lot of 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.319 the shenanigans that go on in the random channel on 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.320 four chane, that's where they stay. They pretty much are 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:40.839 going back and forth. Um. It's it's a group of 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.439 people who have not necessarily identified themselves in any way. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:48.719 So there's it's it's hard to get organized when when 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.160 you do that. It's not impossible, as we'll get to 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.800 when we get to anonymous, but it makes it a 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:58.840 little more difficult. And U, I mean, this hasn't stopped 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:04.640 them from cre eating some pretty popular ideas that eventually 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:06.839 kind of took a life of their own and became 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.920 Internet memes. Yeah. You you might be actually surprised to 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:14.640 hear some of the the trains of thought that have 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.280 escaped from that area and and made their way across 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.679 the internet and even onto national TV. As I have seen, um, 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.480 and I'm not sure that you know some of them 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:30.480 are are are really pretty funny the truth. Yeah, I 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.240 mean things from some of the some of the things 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:38.680 you've seen online or that you've probably seen online, either 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:40.800 they got their start on four Chan or they were 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.640 popular rised on four Chan and then immediately exploded on 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:49.400 the internet. Things like loll cats. Yes, so that the cheeseburger, right, Yes, 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.120 you see a cute picture of a cat with a 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:57.199 funny caption written in some sort of sub English apparently 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.360 the kind of English that cats thinking kitty pigeon? Is 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:05.280 that what's called? Okay? Yea? So anyway that, um, you 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.760 can you can attribute that to uh to four chan. 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:12.199 You can also things like rick rolling, which is a 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.000 should we explain? Oh well yeah, sure for the for 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.960 the two people out in the audience who have never well, 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:20.400 it is possible they know what it is and don't 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.120 know that it has a name for it. Um, yes, 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.719 this uh, this is when you are are given um 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.959 a video or actually it could be virtually anything. Somebody 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:32.959 gives you a phone and they've changed your ring to 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.160 Rick Astley is never Gonna give you Up? You've been 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.640 Rick rolled, or somebody says you have to check out 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.240 this cool loll cat video and uh what turns out 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.880 it's Rick Astley's never Gonna Give You Up video. And 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.280 then there's the float from the two thousand and eight 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.719 Macy's Thanksgiving the Parade from Cartoon Network in which Rick 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.679 Ghastly actually stepped out and sang the song himself on 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:59.640 National TV. Actually theres by that point and it actually 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.480 become yea Steele joke. It was already but yeah, by 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.439 the time Thanksgiving to those neighbors all around, it was 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.080 considered to be pretty old. And then a year later 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.440 we start seeing the iPhone worm go out that replaced 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:15.840 people's jailbroken iPhone background image with Rick Astley, and I'm thinking, seriously, 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.040 how much longer is this joke gonna go. I'm sure 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.520 it will come and go in spurts, as these things do. 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.480 I'm sure it will, But I mean the other thing 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.560 that we can count on is the fact that eventually 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.640 there will be another weird meme that will come out 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.600 of four Chan. So I was going to point out 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.360 to speaking the law Cats meme that um they did 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.000 an interview. Actually, Love Grossman of Time magazine did an 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:41.040 interview with Moot, the founder of four chan, about the 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.880 law cats, because um, that appeared on four chan, and 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.319 then somebody else basically took the idea and ran with 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.160 it and made the site um which sold for two 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.719 million dollars. And uh, basically Moot said, well, you know, 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.920 that's cool, that's fine. He didn't seem to be at 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.439 least according to Mr Grossman, he didn't seem to be 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:03.400 too really concerned that he wasn't seeing a penny of that. Yeah, 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.240 but it's amazing how some of these things take off 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.959 and then leave the channel and yeah, leave home and 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.439 start their own families. Yeah, we'll getting back to the 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:17.600 random channel. Uh. So, first of all, I I guess 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.360 we should have said this earlier. UM, I don't recommend 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.439 you go to four chan and check out the random Channel. 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.240 In fact, I I advise against doing it. If you 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.080 are going to do it, uh, don't do it at school, 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.480 don't do it at work. Uh, you might want to 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:39.440 turn images off on your computer because they're they're posting 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.679 stuff deliberately designed to get your goat, right. And not 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.040 only that, but I mean you can and in the 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.640 random channel you can encounter things like pornography. I mean, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.760 it's gonna be there. The only thing that is specifically 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:56.760 against the rules in the random channel is no child pornography. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:02.560 Anything else is considered fair game. So everything other than 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.440 child porn is fair game. And so I mean that's 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.839 a lot of stuff people, And I'm telling you, you know, 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.240 some of you might be thinking, hey, that sounds kind 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:15.080 of cool. It's um an interesting experience. It's disturbing, Yeah, 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:19.760 I yeah. When I was researching how how internet trolls work, 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.360 I specifically went to four chan to check it out 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.800 because a lot of trolling um is attributed to four chan. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.280 Because again we're talking about mischievous people who like to 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.720 push buttons. So sometimes they'll go to other Internet communities 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:37.520 specifically to cause a little mischief and and raise a ruckus. 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.880 And uh, and so you know you want to go 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.240 to the source, you go to four Chan. Well, I 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.520 had to turn my images off almost immediately as soon 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.360 as I got there, because I realized that if I 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.960 did try to surf that while at work, even though 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.680 it was research, I would likely have to watch that 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.160 video from HR again, and I don't want to have 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.960 to do that if I don't have to. Uh So, Anyway, 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:03.800 the kind of stuff that you'll see on a random 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.400 channel if you were to go includes lots and lots 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.840 of very dark humor, I mean like gallows humor stuff 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:15.520 where people if if you remember, like after any huge tragedy, 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.440 almost immediately there start people start making jokes about that 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.400 tragedy as a coping mechanism, and for some people that 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:30.240 is just so insensitive and taboo that it's immediately offensive. 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.000 That's the kind of stuff you're gonna find the random 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:37.440 channel buttons. Yes, So if someone famous has just recently 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.800 passed away, I guarantee you the first place you're gonna 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:41.640 see a joke about it will be on four Chan 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.800 in that random channel. You know it. As soon as 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:46.680 someone's heard about, they're gonna be there, like, how do 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.760 I make a punchline where this person's name is the joke? Um. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.080 So that's the kind of material you'll find on there. However, 0:15:55.200 --> 0:16:00.440 something kind of um unusual really came from chane that 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.960 was not necessarily an Internet meme, but U a group 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:12.400 that has occasionally tried to to mobilize to protest specific 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.520 uh other groups and other policies. And by that, I'm 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.720 talking about anonymous, and that sort of takes its name 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:26.280 from the ability to remain anonymous while on four chan. Yeah, essentially, 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.760 and they're an anonymous. The members of anonymous aren't all 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.480 necessarily members of four chane or people who contribute to 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:37.440 four chan. Uh. The anonymous actually spans across several different communities, 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.800 and some people who didn't even belong to any of 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.640 those communities just heard about it, agreed with the the 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.240 general principles of anonymous, and kind of went along for 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:51.640 the ride. So it's like this enormous anonymous mob of 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.080 Internet users. Yeah, they don't necessarily know who one another are. Yeah. Yeah, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.720 you don't necessarily know the identity of other members. Um. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:03.280 There is no cent realized leadership, which is both a 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.000 blessing and accurse to this group. Part of the blessing 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:11.280 is that if the group as a whole has done 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.800 something to tick off some other organization, there's no one 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.600 specific you can point to and say this person is 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:22.040 to blame. There's no accountability. Uh. But part of the 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.960 curse is also that it can be very difficult to 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.159 organize a group to do any particular task because you 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.520 don't have a centralized leadership. You have to be able 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:37.600 to to suggest in an anonymous way a course of 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.960 action and have other enough people agree who you know 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.520 share your same perspective, agree to it, and for that 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.040 to catch on. So it has to kind of spread viral. 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.640 E Yes. But and but it has been effective because 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:55.120 they've been able to stage protests in cities around the world. Yes, 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.480 now the biggest target of their protests has been the 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:04.480 Church of Scientology, now members of anonymous. And here's the 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.520 other here's another issue with anonymous. When you have a 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.560 big anonymous group and there's no centralized figure, there's also 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.399 no centralized voice for the group. Uh. You have what 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.320 the majority of the group seems to believe in. But 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.080 then there are people around the edges who may have 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.040 different beliefs or a stronger uh conviction about a certain 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.080 principle than others and will take things to a greater 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.920 length than the group itself might want to go. And 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.560 so that's what. How do you make a set of 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.120 rules to govern a group where it's a group filled 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.800 with people who are all anonymous and no one has accountability. 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:46.720 It's really tricky. So arguably you would say that the 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:51.959 the original group anonymous group when they started Project Chernology, 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:57.280 which is the the specific initiative aimed against the practices 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:02.080 of the Church of Scientology. Uh, they were moderate in 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.159 their approach in the sense that they said they were 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:08.040 not targeting the church as a church. They were targeting 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:14.360 specific practices that that the church allegedly follows. So they 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:19.719 lay they they alleged that the church was, for instance, uh, 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:24.600 bankrupting its members and brainwashing people, or at least separating 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.840 them from their support system and cutting them off from 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.960 the outside world so that they become completely dependent upon 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.159 the church itself, right right, I remember seeing that they 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:37.960 were that those were the things that they had accused 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:41.240 of the Church of Scientology, and taking people away from 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.359 their families and and and also accusing the Church of 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.880 Scientology itself of using very draconian tactics to silence any 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:54.600 kind of protest, any sort of Uh, anyone who would 0:19:54.640 --> 0:20:01.280 say anything against the church would receive um an enormous 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.399 amount of pressure from the church in various ways. And 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:09.359 and really it would range from the threat of lawsuits 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:14.240 to actual criminal acts committed against you or harassment against 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.960 you and your family. Um. So you know, you're talking 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.280 about a group of anonymous people with no sense of 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.439 accountability and an organization that is being accused of uh, 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:29.720 some pretty scary tactics. Uh. This is like the stuff 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.120 of movies. I mean, you know, you don't you don't 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:35.320 normally think about this kind of stuff happening in real life, 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.600 and yet it is unfolding in cities around the world, um, 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.800 throughout the year. I mean, you'll find it here about 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:46.880 anonymous protests, usually somewhere in the vicinity of a Church 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:54.520 of Scientology location. Uh. If the if the area in 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.280 which they are protesting allows it, many of them will 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.960 wear masks. Uh, and many of them have adopted the 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.320 guy Fox mask used in DA Right. The whole idea 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.919 this is a kind of standing up for the individual 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.920 down with this tyrannical organization sort of thing. Um goes 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.680 with the theme. Yeah. Now, the group also says that 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.600 if it is not legal to wear a mask too, 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.200 to not do it. We don't don't don't break the 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.280 law in your efforts to protests the church, and the 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.960 reasoning behind that is you're more likely to do more 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.760 harm to your cause than to help it. Yeah, and 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.560 that uh, I haven't seen any reports that they have 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:45.000 done any you know, physical damage or broken any laws necessarily. 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.360 And in fact, I remember reading that at at least 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:53.320 one protest they brought cake and they were offering a 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.360 cake to people. Um. Basically, I think is a way 0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:59.720 of saying, look, you know, we're just saying we don't 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:05.240 with their practices. Um, we just want some attention drawn 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:09.240 to this. Although they they are um, at least in 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:13.119 one case, I remember reading that they were attempting to 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.520 have their tax codes change with regard to the Church 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.720 of Scientology, so that they're um, you know that they 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.320 are actually trying to achieve that one at least that 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.960 one end goal, rather than doing any you know, serious 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:28.720 harm to it. They're trying to change the way the 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:35.520 government sees the church. Yeah. And um. There are several 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:40.719 YouTube videos that are attributed to Anonymous. This is kind 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:43.040 of funny because when you think about it, anyone could 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:46.280 create those videos, whether they are part of Anonymous or not. 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.040 And Some of these videos are um, you know, they're 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:53.080 just they're very blunt and they lay out what the 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.440 groups um complaints are against the Church of Scientology, why 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:01.360 the group is uh as organized protests against the Church 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:05.680 of Scientology. Um, And it's you know, just very straightforward. 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.240 Others are a little more sinister and uh spooky. And 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:11.600 here's where it really gets kind of crazy, I mean 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.880 really crazy. You get the Church of Scientology saying, hey, 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:21.280 look this proves that Anonymous are there. They're terrorists, you know, 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:25.280 they are trying to use terror to to cow us 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.800 into changing the way that we operate, whereas Anonymous is saying, hey, 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:33.400 that's not us. Our policy is outlined in this video 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:35.920 over here. That's what we think. We aren't the ones 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.240 posting that. And here's the thing is that you don't 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:40.240 know if it's someone in Anonymous or not, because like 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:43.439 I said, yeah, there may be people an Anonymous who 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:47.520 think that the the group's policy doesn't take a heard 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:51.560 enough stance, or here's an alternative. They're just some mischief 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.480 makers who are posing as Anonymous just to stir up trouble. 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:59.600 Like they don't care one way or another if Anonymous 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:03.240 achieved use its goals. What they care about is pushing buttons, 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:08.040 getting back to that, So you can't relieve in tell 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:10.240 what the motives are behind the people who are posting 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:13.359 these things. Or you know, you may hear of a 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:16.440 report of the Church of Scientology saying that, um, that 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:21.320 someone hacked into their computer systems, and they'll they'll say, well, 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:23.560 this has to be anonymous. Well it could be. It 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:25.040 could be that it was a group of people with 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:28.080