1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello there, everybody, 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Polette, 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: and I am the tech editor here at how stuff 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: works dot com. Across from me sitting there, would they 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: be mused expression as usual would be senior writer Jonathan Strickland. 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: Hey there, and today we wanted to talk about a 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: very interesting group of people. But I think you have 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: something to read to us first. Yes, actually, this topic 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: comes to us courtesy of a little listener mail. This 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: list your mail comes to us from Jack, and Jack says, 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: Dear tech Stuff, I believe a discussion on the subject 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: of four Chan, the Japanese image board, and the internet 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: group anonymous is more than overdue. They have been in 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: the news several times and are very important in the 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Internet community. Please consider my request. Thank you, Jack Um. 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: All right, Jack, I actually wrote back to Jack earlier. 19 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: Uh this he he requested this um early in November 20 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: of two thousand nine, So we're just now getting to it. 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: The reason why we're slow getting to it, well, there's 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. One is just that we have 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: a lot of topics on our topic list that you know, 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: to work our way through. But another is that we 25 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: had to really think about whether or not we were 26 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: going to tackle this one because the subjects are somewhat controversial. Yes, definitely. 27 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: So as a matter of fact, he wrote about this 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: not terribly long ago. Yes, I I did it under 29 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: a pseudonym. No, No, I didn't. I actually put my 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: name to it. Um well, in a way I wrote 31 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: about a related subject. Right, Because again, this is this 32 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: is controversial on multiple levels. Let's let's start with the 33 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: very basics with four chan before we talk about anything else. 34 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: That's true actually that the idea behind four chan is 35 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: is not particularly controversial at all. No, it's it's like 36 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: many other websites on the web. It's was designed to 37 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: be a community, an image uh an image posting community primarily, 38 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: rather than a lot of other message boards in which 39 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: you would post uh, you know, written material. Theoretically, the 40 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: idea was, you know, I guess the idea behind it 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: being something along lines of a picture is worth a 42 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: thousand words. You would post a photo or an image 43 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: of some kind to express your your thoughts, and they 44 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: were mainly in the case of four chan, it was 45 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: all about really kind of a Japanese animation as well 46 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: as UH manga, the the illustrated. Essentially, they're like comic 47 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: books or graphic novels, um but you know, they they 48 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: and they they range from very simple stories for for 49 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: kids all the way up to material that specifically meant 50 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: for adult consumption. It's not you know, these aren't necessarily 51 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: comic books for little kids. A lot of people hear 52 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: the phrase comic books even today and still think, oh, 53 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: that's something that little kids enjoy. But in fact, you know, 54 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: they're just like in the United States, the comic books 55 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: in Japan cater to all different age groups and demographics, 56 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: and UH four chane was kind of a place where 57 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: people who enjoyed this sort of art could share that 58 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: kind of UH enthusiasm with each other. UM. And one 59 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: of the interesting things about four chan is that it 60 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: would allow people to post content without any identification whatsoever. 61 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: You didn't have to register a handle or anything like 62 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: that in order to go to four chan and contribute, 63 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: which is UH very different from most other communities. And 64 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: other communities, of course, you want to establish an identity 65 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: that's how you make friends, it's how people know to 66 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: contact you, it's how you can start up conversations on 67 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: four Chan. You could do it completely anonymously with would 68 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: theoretically protect you if you were to say, I don't 69 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: know post material that might violate copyright, right, And I 70 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: wanted to point out to UM when you mentioned that 71 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: there there is adult art. We're not talking about pornography necessarily, 72 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: necessarily because you're just talking about adult themes. Sure, because 73 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: that's one of the few. I mean, even though you 74 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: can post post things anonymously, one of the you know, 75 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: you're not theoretically supposed to post pornography if I'm not 76 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: not unless and except in a couple of the couple 77 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: of the rooms within or the sections in four Chune 78 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: do allow you to post stuff, all right, I was 79 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: an impresson that was completely forbidden on the same So 80 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: it's only in very specific area, yeah, very specific areas. 81 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: It actually tells you which areas are are meant for 82 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: mature audiences. Is kind of I kind of hesitate to 83 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: use that word considering some of the content that shows 84 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: up on Fortune, But you know what I'm talking about, 85 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: right of eighteen or older, let's say there are certain 86 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: sections that are only meant for eighteen or older. Um, 87 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: although one would argue that I think most of the 88 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: people who are on those sections are not that of 89 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: that age group, based upon the content and uh commentary 90 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: that you find within those sections. Um. Now, the we're 91 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: getting into, we're getting We're kind of getting ahead a 92 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: little bit. I didn't mean to get ahead. I just 93 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: was trying to clarify the adult sure sure the so well, 94 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: like Chris was saying, Yeah, the adult themes don't necessarily 95 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: mean pornography. I mean it's the same way as I 96 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: would I would call like Law and Order an adult show. Yeah, 97 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: and and one. It just has themes that that children 98 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: don't grasp. You know, it's more sophisticated than what a child, 99 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: uh considers entertainment. So same thing with these these these 100 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: comics and cartoons or anime. I mean, people are gonna 101 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: get upset, but has I'll call it a cartoon or 102 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: a comic book. But I'm just trying to give an 103 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: analog for people who are unfamiliar with the art forms. 104 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: Um or I could just called japanamation. Hey man, that's 105 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: when I was a kid. That's what that's what we 106 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: called it. I remember that I was saying, you probably 107 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: earned yourself ten listener meals right and in there well 108 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: for calling a japanamation. I used to watch a lot 109 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: of japanamation. I enjoyed japanamation. I remember when there was 110 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: a section of the store that was called Japanimation, back 111 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: before Animal became a popular before. Yeah, well, and animal 112 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: is anime is definitely a more a more appropriate term 113 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: because not all of this kind of animation comes from Japan, 114 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: I mean, because that's unfortunately people would use the term 115 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: japanamation to mean animation coming from any Asian country, which 116 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: of course is you know, it's not really accurate. But 117 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: at any rate, um, so four chance a community that 118 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: is mostly based around that, although people began to in 119 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: other interests as well, so it began to flesh out 120 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: a bit, right. It wasn't just things that had to 121 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: do with anime or manga. Um. You had people who 122 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: would bring in stuff about video games and other kinds 123 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: of pop culture entertainment, even music things like that. Um. 124 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: And then there's also a specific channel where anything goes. 125 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: It is the Random channel, the slash b channel, and uh, 126 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: it is this channel that probably has gained four Chan 127 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: the notoriety that it has people. When people say four 128 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: chan and they're talking about things like controversy, um or 129 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: trolling or anything like that, they're really mainly talking about 130 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: this B channel, the random channel where anything goes because 131 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: I think, um, I think Obi wan Kenobi would describe 132 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: this channel as a wretched hive of scum and villainy. 133 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: I'm not making any kind of judgment on the people 134 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: who go there, but I will say that they enjoy 135 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: winding each other up. Yeah yeah, well, uh, you're not 136 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: the first person to have made that exact comparison. Actually 137 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: found other references were using that exact phrase. It's to 138 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: the random Channel. It's probably in people's signatures and things 139 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: like fortune B Channel, wretched hive of scum and villany. Well, 140 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: that's the thing. I mean, that's one of the things 141 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: about the Internet in general. A lot of websites uh 142 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: produced communities of like minded people, people who have similar interests. 143 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: And it makes sense that you know, people who like 144 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: to uh uh to wind each other up, as you say, 145 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: would would want to gather somewhere and this is just 146 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: an opportunity for them to do that. Yeah, I don't 147 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think that the people who are posting 148 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: in that channel are particularly sinister or mean spirited. They're 149 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: more mischievous than anything else. Now, sometimes this mischief boils 150 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: over into acts that are that go beyond on mischief 151 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: into the realm of being criminal acts um or at 152 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: the very least uh questionable, So it goes beyond just 153 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: like ha ha pulled a prank on YouTube while you've 154 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: actually caused damage in some way, whether that's you know, 155 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: through a calculable monetary unit or psychological damage or emotional 156 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: damage or whatever. Um. But they enjoy pushing people's buttons. 157 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: Mostly they're pushing each other's buttons because a lot of 158 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: the shenanigans that go on in the random channel on 159 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: four chane, that's where they stay. They pretty much are 160 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: going back and forth. Um. It's it's a group of 161 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 1: people who have not necessarily identified themselves in any way. 162 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 1: So there's it's it's hard to get organized when when 163 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: you do that. It's not impossible, as we'll get to 164 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: when we get to anonymous, but it makes it a 165 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: little more difficult. And U, I mean, this hasn't stopped 166 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: them from cre eating some pretty popular ideas that eventually 167 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: kind of took a life of their own and became 168 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: Internet memes. Yeah. You you might be actually surprised to 169 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: hear some of the the trains of thought that have 170 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: escaped from that area and and made their way across 171 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: the internet and even onto national TV. As I have seen, um, 172 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure that you know some of them 173 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: are are are really pretty funny the truth. Yeah, I 174 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: mean things from some of the some of the things 175 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: you've seen online or that you've probably seen online, either 176 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: they got their start on four Chan or they were 177 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: popular rised on four Chan and then immediately exploded on 178 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: the internet. Things like loll cats. Yes, so that the cheeseburger, right, Yes, 179 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: you see a cute picture of a cat with a 180 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: funny caption written in some sort of sub English apparently 181 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: the kind of English that cats thinking kitty pigeon? Is 182 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: that what's called? Okay? Yea? So anyway that, um, you 183 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: can you can attribute that to uh to four chan. 184 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: You can also things like rick rolling, which is a 185 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: should we explain? Oh well yeah, sure for the for 186 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: the two people out in the audience who have never well, 187 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: it is possible they know what it is and don't 188 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: know that it has a name for it. Um, yes, 189 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 1: this uh, this is when you are are given um 190 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: a video or actually it could be virtually anything. Somebody 191 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: gives you a phone and they've changed your ring to 192 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: Rick Astley is never Gonna give you Up? You've been 193 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: Rick rolled, or somebody says you have to check out 194 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: this cool loll cat video and uh what turns out 195 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: it's Rick Astley's never Gonna Give You Up video. And 196 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: then there's the float from the two thousand and eight 197 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: Macy's Thanksgiving the Parade from Cartoon Network in which Rick 198 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: Ghastly actually stepped out and sang the song himself on 199 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: National TV. Actually theres by that point and it actually 200 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: become yea Steele joke. It was already but yeah, by 201 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: the time Thanksgiving to those neighbors all around, it was 202 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: considered to be pretty old. And then a year later 203 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: we start seeing the iPhone worm go out that replaced 204 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: people's jailbroken iPhone background image with Rick Astley, and I'm thinking, seriously, 205 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: how much longer is this joke gonna go. I'm sure 206 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: it will come and go in spurts, as these things do. 207 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure it will, But I mean the other thing 208 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: that we can count on is the fact that eventually 209 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: there will be another weird meme that will come out 210 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: of four Chan. So I was going to point out 211 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: to speaking the law Cats meme that um they did 212 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: an interview. Actually, Love Grossman of Time magazine did an 213 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: interview with Moot, the founder of four chan, about the 214 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: law cats, because um, that appeared on four chan, and 215 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: then somebody else basically took the idea and ran with 216 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: it and made the site um which sold for two 217 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: million dollars. And uh, basically Moot said, well, you know, 218 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: that's cool, that's fine. He didn't seem to be at 219 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: least according to Mr Grossman, he didn't seem to be 220 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: too really concerned that he wasn't seeing a penny of that. Yeah, 221 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: but it's amazing how some of these things take off 222 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: and then leave the channel and yeah, leave home and 223 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: start their own families. Yeah, we'll getting back to the 224 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: random channel. Uh. So, first of all, I I guess 225 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: we should have said this earlier. UM, I don't recommend 226 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: you go to four chan and check out the random Channel. 227 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: In fact, I I advise against doing it. If you 228 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: are going to do it, uh, don't do it at school, 229 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: don't do it at work. Uh, you might want to 230 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: turn images off on your computer because they're they're posting 231 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: stuff deliberately designed to get your goat, right. And not 232 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: only that, but I mean you can and in the 233 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: random channel you can encounter things like pornography. I mean, 234 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: it's gonna be there. The only thing that is specifically 235 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: against the rules in the random channel is no child pornography. 236 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: Anything else is considered fair game. So everything other than 237 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: child porn is fair game. And so I mean that's 238 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff people, And I'm telling you, you know, 239 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: some of you might be thinking, hey, that sounds kind 240 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: of cool. It's um an interesting experience. It's disturbing, Yeah, 241 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: I yeah. When I was researching how how internet trolls work, 242 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: I specifically went to four chan to check it out 243 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: because a lot of trolling um is attributed to four chan. 244 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: Because again we're talking about mischievous people who like to 245 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: push buttons. So sometimes they'll go to other Internet communities 246 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: specifically to cause a little mischief and and raise a ruckus. 247 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: And uh, and so you know you want to go 248 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: to the source, you go to four Chan. Well, I 249 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: had to turn my images off almost immediately as soon 250 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: as I got there, because I realized that if I 251 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: did try to surf that while at work, even though 252 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: it was research, I would likely have to watch that 253 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: video from HR again, and I don't want to have 254 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: to do that if I don't have to. Uh So, Anyway, 255 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that you'll see on a random 256 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: channel if you were to go includes lots and lots 257 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: of very dark humor, I mean like gallows humor stuff 258 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: where people if if you remember, like after any huge tragedy, 259 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: almost immediately there start people start making jokes about that 260 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: tragedy as a coping mechanism, and for some people that 261 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: is just so insensitive and taboo that it's immediately offensive. 262 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff you're gonna find the random 263 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: channel buttons. Yes, So if someone famous has just recently 264 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: passed away, I guarantee you the first place you're gonna 265 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: see a joke about it will be on four Chan 266 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: in that random channel. You know it. As soon as 267 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: someone's heard about, they're gonna be there, like, how do 268 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: I make a punchline where this person's name is the joke? Um. 269 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: So that's the kind of material you'll find on there. However, 270 00:15:55,200 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: something kind of um unusual really came from chane that 271 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: was not necessarily an Internet meme, but U a group 272 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: that has occasionally tried to to mobilize to protest specific 273 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: uh other groups and other policies. And by that, I'm 274 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: talking about anonymous, and that sort of takes its name 275 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: from the ability to remain anonymous while on four chan. Yeah, essentially, 276 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: and they're an anonymous. The members of anonymous aren't all 277 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: necessarily members of four chane or people who contribute to 278 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: four chan. Uh. The anonymous actually spans across several different communities, 279 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: and some people who didn't even belong to any of 280 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: those communities just heard about it, agreed with the the 281 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: general principles of anonymous, and kind of went along for 282 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: the ride. So it's like this enormous anonymous mob of 283 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: Internet users. Yeah, they don't necessarily know who one another are. Yeah. Yeah, 284 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: you don't necessarily know the identity of other members. Um. 285 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: There is no cent realized leadership, which is both a 286 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: blessing and accurse to this group. Part of the blessing 287 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: is that if the group as a whole has done 288 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: something to tick off some other organization, there's no one 289 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: specific you can point to and say this person is 290 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: to blame. There's no accountability. Uh. But part of the 291 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: curse is also that it can be very difficult to 292 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: organize a group to do any particular task because you 293 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: don't have a centralized leadership. You have to be able 294 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: to to suggest in an anonymous way a course of 295 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: action and have other enough people agree who you know 296 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: share your same perspective, agree to it, and for that 297 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: to catch on. So it has to kind of spread viral. 298 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: E Yes. But and but it has been effective because 299 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: they've been able to stage protests in cities around the world. Yes, 300 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: now the biggest target of their protests has been the 301 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: Church of Scientology, now members of anonymous. And here's the 302 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: other here's another issue with anonymous. When you have a 303 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: big anonymous group and there's no centralized figure, there's also 304 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: no centralized voice for the group. Uh. You have what 305 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: the majority of the group seems to believe in. But 306 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: then there are people around the edges who may have 307 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: different beliefs or a stronger uh conviction about a certain 308 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: principle than others and will take things to a greater 309 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: length than the group itself might want to go. And 310 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: so that's what. How do you make a set of 311 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: rules to govern a group where it's a group filled 312 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: with people who are all anonymous and no one has accountability. 313 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: It's really tricky. So arguably you would say that the 314 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,959 Speaker 1: the original group anonymous group when they started Project Chernology, 315 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: which is the the specific initiative aimed against the practices 316 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: of the Church of Scientology. Uh, they were moderate in 317 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: their approach in the sense that they said they were 318 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: not targeting the church as a church. They were targeting 319 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: specific practices that that the church allegedly follows. So they 320 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 1: lay they they alleged that the church was, for instance, uh, 321 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: bankrupting its members and brainwashing people, or at least separating 322 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: them from their support system and cutting them off from 323 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: the outside world so that they become completely dependent upon 324 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: the church itself, right right, I remember seeing that they 325 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: were that those were the things that they had accused 326 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: of the Church of Scientology, and taking people away from 327 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: their families and and and also accusing the Church of 328 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: Scientology itself of using very draconian tactics to silence any 329 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: kind of protest, any sort of Uh, anyone who would 330 00:19:54,640 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: say anything against the church would receive um an enormous 331 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: amount of pressure from the church in various ways. And 332 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: and really it would range from the threat of lawsuits 333 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: to actual criminal acts committed against you or harassment against 334 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: you and your family. Um. So you know, you're talking 335 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: about a group of anonymous people with no sense of 336 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: accountability and an organization that is being accused of uh, 337 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: some pretty scary tactics. Uh. This is like the stuff 338 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: of movies. I mean, you know, you don't you don't 339 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: normally think about this kind of stuff happening in real life, 340 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: and yet it is unfolding in cities around the world, um, 341 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: throughout the year. I mean, you'll find it here about 342 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: anonymous protests, usually somewhere in the vicinity of a Church 343 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: of Scientology location. Uh. If the if the area in 344 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: which they are protesting allows it, many of them will 345 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: wear masks. Uh, and many of them have adopted the 346 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: guy Fox mask used in DA Right. The whole idea 347 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: this is a kind of standing up for the individual 348 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: down with this tyrannical organization sort of thing. Um goes 349 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: with the theme. Yeah. Now, the group also says that 350 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: if it is not legal to wear a mask too, 351 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: to not do it. We don't don't don't break the 352 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: law in your efforts to protests the church, and the 353 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: reasoning behind that is you're more likely to do more 354 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: harm to your cause than to help it. Yeah, and 355 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: that uh, I haven't seen any reports that they have 356 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: done any you know, physical damage or broken any laws necessarily. 357 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: And in fact, I remember reading that at at least 358 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: one protest they brought cake and they were offering a 359 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: cake to people. Um. Basically, I think is a way 360 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: of saying, look, you know, we're just saying we don't 361 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: with their practices. Um, we just want some attention drawn 362 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: to this. Although they they are um, at least in 363 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: one case, I remember reading that they were attempting to 364 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: have their tax codes change with regard to the Church 365 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: of Scientology, so that they're um, you know that they 366 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: are actually trying to achieve that one at least that 367 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: one end goal, rather than doing any you know, serious 368 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: harm to it. They're trying to change the way the 369 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: government sees the church. Yeah. And um. There are several 370 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: YouTube videos that are attributed to Anonymous. This is kind 371 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: of funny because when you think about it, anyone could 372 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: create those videos, whether they are part of Anonymous or not. 373 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: And Some of these videos are um, you know, they're 374 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: just they're very blunt and they lay out what the 375 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: groups um complaints are against the Church of Scientology, why 376 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 1: the group is uh as organized protests against the Church 377 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: of Scientology. Um, And it's you know, just very straightforward. 378 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: Others are a little more sinister and uh spooky. And 379 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: here's where it really gets kind of crazy, I mean 380 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: really crazy. You get the Church of Scientology saying, hey, 381 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: look this proves that Anonymous are there. They're terrorists, you know, 382 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: they are trying to use terror to to cow us 383 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: into changing the way that we operate, whereas Anonymous is saying, hey, 384 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: that's not us. Our policy is outlined in this video 385 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: over here. That's what we think. We aren't the ones 386 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: posting that. And here's the thing is that you don't 387 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: know if it's someone in Anonymous or not, because like 388 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, there may be people an Anonymous who 389 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: think that the the group's policy doesn't take a heard 390 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: enough stance, or here's an alternative. They're just some mischief 391 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: makers who are posing as Anonymous just to stir up trouble. 392 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: Like they don't care one way or another if Anonymous 393 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: achieved use its goals. What they care about is pushing buttons, 394 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: getting back to that, So you can't relieve in tell 395 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: what the motives are behind the people who are posting 396 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: these things. Or you know, you may hear of a 397 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: report of the Church of Scientology saying that, um, that 398 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: someone hacked into their computer systems, and they'll they'll say, well, 399 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: this has to be anonymous. Well it could be. It 400 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: could be that it was a group of people with 401 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: an anonymous who took that initiative. Um, but it could 402 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: also be that it was completely unrelated and there and 403 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: anonymous is the scapegoat. I mean, again, here's the trouble 404 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: of having a big group of people with no centralized leadership. 405 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: And you know, uh, arguably you would say, well, according 406 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: to the quote unquote official anonymous approach, and again it's 407 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: hard to define what that is, but according to that, 408 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: any such attacks would be against the group's principles. But 409 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: you know, again, you don't know. Maybe it's people on 410 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: the fringe of anonymous who who are trying to up 411 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: the vigilante activity. Maybe it's just someone who wants to 412 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: cause as much mischief as they possibly can. Uh. That's 413 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: why it's kind of hard to talk about these folks. 414 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're very clever, maybe too clever for 415 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: their own good in a way. Well, they're so decentralized too, 416 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: that it's kind of hard to pin down, you know, 417 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: a course set of values and beliefs that Anonymous represents. 418 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: They're so dis and and the group itself has also 419 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: been accused of other activities besides things that are not 420 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: related to the Church of Scientology at all, other kinds 421 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: of mischief um. In some some cases that was a 422 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: kind of civil disobedience in order to protest a particular 423 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: set of policies. In other cases, it just seemed like 424 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: it was kind of a mean spirited joke that was 425 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: done for no other reason than to cause a stir um. 426 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: And once again, it's impossible to say which ones like 427 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: because Anonymous itself doesn't have I mean, there's no firm 428 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: membership role. It could be that this is a splinter 429 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: group of the full group of Anonymous. It could be 430 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: that it's a large portion of Anonymous. It could be 431 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 1: its people who aren't even related to Anonymous. But for example, 432 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: there was not that long ago there was a whole 433 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: thing about a website that was designed to be a 434 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: forum for people who suffered from epilepsy and migraine headaches 435 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: and um A group essentially created uh handles within this 436 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: forum and began to post images of flashing lights things 437 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: that would theoretically set off could set off an epileptic 438 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: attack or perhaps trigger a migraine, depending on if you know, 439 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: if you had that visual stimulation, if that's what set 440 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: you off, and you know, what's the point of that? 441 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: Why do that? But it's the fact that you know, 442 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: you're just causing as much trouble as possible. I mean, ultimately, 443 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: if your tactic works, you are possibly actually causing harm 444 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: to another individual. I mean in a way that's even 445 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: if you don't want to call it terrorism, it's at least, 446 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: you know, just just malicious, mean spirited. Yeah. And you know, 447 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: is is that the same group that's protesting draconium practices 448 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: by you know, by another group? Is that or is 449 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: it a totally different group. I mean again, it could 450 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: be it could be any anybody doing that and anonymous 451 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: taking the blame for it, regardless of what it's an 452 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: anonymous member or not. So um. Yeah, it's weird stuff. 453 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: I mean, there there's some some things that are attributed 454 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: to the group that just don't really add up. But again, uh, 455 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: it could even be that there are some people who 456 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: are active and anonymous, who are at protests, who go 457 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: to every single one they can, who don't really believe 458 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: in the ultimate cause. They just like the the noise. 459 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: There's that too, So people who just enjoy being a 460 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: rabble rouser um. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a 461 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: place for civil disobedience. I think that that is if 462 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: if you have if your rights are are whittled away, 463 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: you start to have very few other options. Um. But 464 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: there's a right way to go about it and a 465 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: wrong way to go about and I think maybe causing 466 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: people to have epileptic seizures is possibly not the right way. 467 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: But hey, you know we don't right, we don't know 468 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: who it is. That's the brilliance behind anonymous um or 469 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: anyone who manages to be on the Internet and not 470 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: leave a a easily trackable record of who they are. 471 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: And that's that's difficult. Yeah, it's actually really tricky. In fact, 472 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the people who are in anonymous. If 473 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: you were really determined and you put enough pressure on 474 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: the right people, you could figure out who most of 475 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: them are, um, but it would it would take a 476 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: lot because you would essentially have to be able to 477 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: pressure Internet service providers into giving you the information about 478 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: you know, I s p s and things like that, 479 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: and are rather not I s p s but IP 480 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: addresses and things like that. Um, And that's most I 481 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: s p s would never really do that without a 482 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: court order because it you know, once you start violating 483 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: the trust of your customers, you don't have customers anymore. 484 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: So so they have a pretty good net of protection 485 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: around them. But I wouldn't say they're impervious, all right, Well, 486 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: fascinating group of people. Yeah, and of course, you know, 487 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: we didn't really get into the whole trolling thing, but 488 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: uh yeah, there are a lot of people and four 489 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: chane have also been accused of or at least the 490 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: kind of mentality that you find in four chan is 491 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: often um the four Chune random channel, I should say, 492 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: is as often associated with trolling in general on the Internet. 493 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: People who just like to go to different communities and 494 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: cause misery and and make conversations breakdown into flame wars 495 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: that kind of thing, just because I get their jollies 496 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: out of derailing any kind of civil conversation. Um, you 497 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: know lulls. Yeah, same people who are griefers and games 498 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: will go onto a game and just they're only the 499 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: way they get enjoyment from a game is by causing 500 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: other people frustration. Um. I think a lot of people 501 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: eventually grow out of that, which is another reason why 502 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: people will say that the folks on on the random 503 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: channel at Fortune seemed to fall into the fifteen year 504 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: old board boy category. One of the articles I read 505 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: about about Anonymous suggested that they a lot of them 506 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: were middle class teenage people. So yeah, I think I 507 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: think a lot of the along with that, the people 508 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: I've seen in the pictures at the at the actual 509 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: protests tend to fall into um, older teens and early 510 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: early to mid twenties, based upon their build and uh 511 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: and things like that, because in most cases their mask, 512 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: their their masks looked very youthful. Yeah, they were very young. 513 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: Guy Fox um, and Guy Fox is just one of 514 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: the kinds of masks they wear. That's it's probably one 515 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: of the more popular ones. But you'll see people wear like, 516 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, just the dust mask or whatever. Um. But 517 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: at any rate, so yeah, I hope that, Um, that's 518 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: a good little overview of four Chin and Anonymous. Now, 519 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: granted there's a lot more that we did not go 520 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: into this. These are very deep subjects, both of them 521 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: in fact, and uh, we could probably do two or 522 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: three podcasts on them if we weren't afraid of getting 523 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: attacked for the lulls, which I live in constant fear 524 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: being attacked for the lulls. Please don't attack me for 525 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: the lulls. It's not that funny. But um, are are you? 526 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: Are you exhausted by the subject. Yeah, it's just it's 527 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: just one of those things that it's interesting to me 528 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: because it's so hard to pin down, you know, and uh, 529 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, I understand why other people would be interested 530 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, yeah, it's you know, if it weren't 531 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: for the fact that I have to disengage half of 532 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: my Internet browsers capabilities before I go to such a site, 533 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: I would probably check it out a little more often. Also, 534 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: I think it's blocked in our network now, it wasn't 535 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 1: back when I was researching trolls lesson learned. All right, Well, 536 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: I guess that'll bring us around to our second A 537 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: bout of listener mail. List listener mail comes from Emily 538 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: and he says, Chris and Jonathan, thanks for a better 539 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: than Josh and Chuck podcast, even though it was a 540 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: while ago. I have a comment on your two thousand 541 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: thirty eight podcast. I have a Palm pilot M five 542 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: oh five that runs with Legacy. I've tried many times 543 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: to download the off that allows me to use the 544 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: email application and sync the Palm with my computer. It 545 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: does not work. There's no version of the software that 546 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: works with newer systems like Windows Vista. In the process, 547 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: I also discovered that there is no tech support for 548 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: old poems. If the same thing happens with most machines 549 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: that run with Legacy, it will not work with many 550 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: other computers, and when that person encounters the problem, they 551 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: will not be able to fix it. So unless this 552 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: person is very intent on keeping the system because it 553 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: is ancient, and willing to spend the money they could 554 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: use to buy a new system on fixing the old one, 555 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: the person should get a new system. Thanks and keep 556 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: pod guessing. You're nine grade devotee Emily you know she says, 557 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: by the way, I love puns, pie and awful jokes, 558 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: three things you won't get on stuff you should know, 559 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: and by the By the way, could you talk about 560 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: internet blocking systems like the ones in place at school 561 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: that don't allow you to go on Facebook or YouTube. 562 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: That's funny that she should mention that. Sure, why is 563 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: that because we were just talking about it four chance. Yeah. Firewalls. Yeah, 564 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: it's essentially a firewall. Um. I mean, there are many 565 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: different versions and variations of the firewall, but it's not 566 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: that hard. It's it's a It can either be hardware 567 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: or software, and you just most of them have a 568 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: setting where you can tell it specific u r l's 569 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: that it will not allow people to access. So you 570 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: try and go to it and you'll get a message 571 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: back saying you can't access that site. Uh. Many of 572 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: them will come with a list pre programmed of of 573 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,479 Speaker 1: u r l's that are known to be either time 574 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: sucks like Facebook and Twitter, or um, you know, have 575 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: questionable content on them like four chan. There you go. 576 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's sort of like a set of 577 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: parental controls for an entire network, right. And it seems 578 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: to me like she was talking about legacy as being 579 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: a kind of, uh, like a specific program. What we're 580 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: talking about when we're talking about legacy systems is not 581 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: necessarily a specific program, but older programs that have been 582 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: used within a an organization for years and years and 583 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: years and there is no longer any support for them 584 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: because the company that created it is no longer around 585 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: or has moved on to other systems and no longer 586 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: supports it. That's what a legacy system is. Yeah, And 587 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: unfortunately the uh, the original palm os is uh sort 588 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: of in that boat because you know it is it 589 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: still functions. As a matter of fact, Lennox has it, 590 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, built in support for it, but you know, 591 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: you have to go to third party clients at this 592 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: point to to get support for the palm Os And 593 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: I think that a lot of in a lot of cases, 594 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: they're just going to let it drop now, especially with 595 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: the new web os it comes webs and when the 596 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: we boss webs um that comes with the Palm Prex 597 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: and the Pixie. Yes, and Emily may very well have 598 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: meant that, it was just kind of difficult to tell 599 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: from the way she praised that, so I just wanted 600 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 1: to cover all the bases there. Well. Thanks for the email, Emily, 601 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: and thanks Jack for your question that started off this 602 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: whole podcast. If any of you have any questions, suggestions, 603 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: anything like that, send us an email tech Stuff at 604 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Remember, every Tuesday at one 605 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: pm we have tech stuff Live and you can check 606 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: that out at the blogs at how stuff works dot com. 607 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: Just look on the right hands side. You'll see the 608 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: links there. Chris and I will talk to you again, 609 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 1: possibly anonymously, really soon for more on this and thousands 610 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com, 611 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: and be sure to check out the new tech stuff 612 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: blog now on the house stuff works homepage, brought to 613 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, 614 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: are you