1
00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:06,560
Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On.

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 1: The people of Ukraine are enduring, strong and they will fight,

3
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 1: but they are Outgune. I would have liked to have

4
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,400
Speaker 1: seen the early imposition of sanctions. I think Lad mccuten's

5
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,119
Speaker 1: heard enough tough talk Bloomberg Sound On Politics, Policy and

6
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,040
Speaker 1: perspective from DC's top names. Not only is the United

7
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 1: States the biggest consumer economies in the world, it's also

8
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,360
Speaker 1: the biggest consumer of gasoline. In particular, mitigations for pandemic

9
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,239
Speaker 1: is really on a continuum. The more transmission and the

10
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,480
Speaker 1: more risks and more layers of mitigation. We did Bloomberg

11
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:42,280
Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Is Europe

12
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,680
Speaker 1: moving closer to war? The stock market seems to think so,

13
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,879
Speaker 1: and so does the White House. Welcome to the fastest

14
00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,839
Speaker 1: hour in politics as we follow our to our changes

15
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,800
Speaker 1: in the storyline from Moscow to Kiev to Washington, and

16
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 1: we'll have the latest for you straight ahead, along with

17
00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: the conversation with Thomas Pickering, former pastor to the United

18
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,360
Speaker 1: Nations and to Russia, his unique insights, only on sound

19
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,679
Speaker 1: On Tonight later. Is the government moving closer to a shutdown.

20
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 1: No one's threatening that, but lawmakers still have to pass

21
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,520
Speaker 1: a stop gap here on the eve of money running out.

22
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,920
Speaker 1: We'll get an update from Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick on

23
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill the panel today, Kevin Walling, Democratic strategist at

24
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 1: h G Creative Media, and Frank Maisano, longtime Republican communications

25
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,680
Speaker 1: official on the Hill now senior principal at Bracewell. How

26
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,880
Speaker 1: things have changed in the last two days. To be fair,

27
00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 1: the White House has been consistent in that time and

28
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,560
Speaker 1: not believing Russia's claims of de escalation. U S Intelligence

29
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 1: says Russia has sent seven thousand more troops to the

30
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,200
Speaker 1: Ukrainian borders and stock of a pullback began early Tuesday morning.

31
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 1: The Biden administration decided to lean into this today. The

32
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,920
Speaker 1: messaging began first thing this morning. President Biden, walking out

33
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 1: of the South Portico on his way to the helicopter,

34
00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,960
Speaker 1: stopped right there in the driveway, with reporters shouting quite

35
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 1: students along the rope line asking what are the chances

36
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:08,720
Speaker 1: now of an invasion? Invasion right now? It's very high, right,

37
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,120
Speaker 1: It's very because they have not they have not moved

38
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,079
Speaker 1: to Enator Church job, they'd move more trooping number one.

39
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,120
Speaker 1: Number two, we have reasons to believe that they are,

40
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 1: and the gigs and a false flag operation to have

41
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,360
Speaker 1: an excuse to go in every indication we have, because

42
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:32,120
Speaker 1: they're prepared to go into his train attack Ukraine. The President, though,

43
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,760
Speaker 1: when asked, still allowing for a diplomatic solution, there any

44
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 1: diplomatic has still available. Yes, there is thenatic. That's why

45
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,079
Speaker 1: I asked Senator Senator sect very appointment to jog of

46
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,080
Speaker 1: the United Sations and make this statement today. Indeed, Secretary

47
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,800
Speaker 1: of State Anthony Blincoln dispatched to the U n the

48
00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 1: Security Council to deliver a message that we do not

49
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,080
Speaker 1: believe Moscow Russia hasn't asked more than a hundred and

50
00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:04,440
Speaker 1: fifty thousand troops around Ukraine's borders in Russia Deldrus occupied Crimea.

51
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,680
Speaker 1: Russia says it's drawing down those forces. We do not

52
00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,080
Speaker 1: see that happening on the ground. Our information indicates clearly

53
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:19,560
Speaker 1: that these forces, including ground troops, aircraft ships, are preparing

54
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,600
Speaker 1: to launch an attack against Ukraine in the coming days.

55
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 1: And Lincoln says, as we've been hearing for weeks from

56
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,120
Speaker 1: this administration, including this morning, from the president, Russia is

57
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,040
Speaker 1: working up a false flag operation to create a pretext

58
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 1: for war. He followed to say Russia would then convene

59
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,000
Speaker 1: emergency meetings responding to its own operation before a planned

60
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,840
Speaker 1: attack would be carried out. This was an unexpected address

61
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,280
Speaker 1: before the UN. He went on to invite Russian foreign

62
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,720
Speaker 1: ministers Sircu Lavrov to meet again next week in Europe

63
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:55,480
Speaker 1: to resolve the crisis without conflict. Bloomberg News Today also

64
00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 1: spoke with Ukraine's Ambassador to the US Usana Markova, maintains

65
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,560
Speaker 1: that Kiev will not panic in the face of Russian aggression.

66
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 1: We know that the risk is there. We know that

67
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,720
Speaker 1: the intent to attack is there. We not only know it,

68
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 1: we experienced it for the past eight years. Now we

69
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 1: cannot afford to panic. We're joined by a voice of experience.

70
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 1: Career Ambassador Thomas Pickering served as ambassador to the U

71
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,960
Speaker 1: N and to Russia, among many other countries, in a

72
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 1: distinguished career in the US Foreign service, and he's back

73
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,520
Speaker 1: with US ambassador. Welcome back to Bloomberg. Do you think

74
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin knows what he wants to do? Thanks nice

75
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 1: to be back. I never believed we should ever underestimate

76
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,599
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin the very interesting question which of the numerous

77
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 1: choices he has before him he's going to select. At

78
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,919
Speaker 1: the moment, we're seeing a kind of what we would

79
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,800
Speaker 1: call two steps shuffle, one step to try to make

80
00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,159
Speaker 1: people believe that, in fact he's withdrawing, although the intelligence

81
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,479
Speaker 1: data does not seem to support that, and we should

82
00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,480
Speaker 1: take that seriously. The other seemingly prepared and to move

83
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,440
Speaker 1: forward against Ukraine. And that's something that obviously would produce

84
00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,960
Speaker 1: very very serious reactions and engage us in the danger

85
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,240
Speaker 1: of conflict, and perhaps even a worst sort of conflict

86
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,120
Speaker 1: than we could imagine. That would be a slip by

87
00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:27,080
Speaker 1: accident and misjudgment or miscalculation, which could be a a

88
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:32,160
Speaker 1: factor here for nuclear use. And that would be what

89
00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,480
Speaker 1: a thought well in terms of the the idea of

90
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,280
Speaker 1: potentially something going wrong, Keith says, Russia back separatists increased

91
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 1: shelling of the Ukrainian army today. I know that's not new,

92
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,360
Speaker 1: but there was more today, almost forty ceasefire violations. Separatists

93
00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,680
Speaker 1: hit a kindergarten among other buildings. The Organization Ambassador for

94
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,719
Speaker 1: Security and Cooperation in Europe says this is not beyond

95
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,280
Speaker 1: the level of activity we've been seeing in eastern Ukraine.

96
00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,599
Speaker 1: But what if it does intensify to a new level. Well,

97
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,640
Speaker 1: it's always worrying. And I saw those reports this morning.

98
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,320
Speaker 1: They seem to indicate that there is a triplication, if

99
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 1: not quadrif quadrification, of the level of attacks that are

100
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,080
Speaker 1: coming in. And while they were not specific as to

101
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,000
Speaker 1: which side they were coming from, one can assume, particularly

102
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 1: given the damage to the kindergarten, that they came from

103
00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 1: the separatist side. And it's important to know that factor

104
00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,280
Speaker 1: because just the multiplication of shelling on both sides is

105
00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 1: something that goes up and down, as the report indicates,

106
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,799
Speaker 1: but it's not good, and that's clearly a problem as well.

107
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,200
Speaker 1: The Biden administration says Russia has added thousands more troops

108
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,240
Speaker 1: just this week. Russia says it's de escalating and that

109
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,039
Speaker 1: we are hysterical. Someone needs to be wrong, Ambassador. What

110
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,880
Speaker 1: happens to diplomacy when both sides are contradicting each other

111
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 1: like this? What happens when both sides are contradicting each

112
00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 1: other is the absolute necessity for both sides to sit down,

113
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 1: un calmly at the table and precisely to go over

114
00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 1: what it is they think they see in here and

115
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,680
Speaker 1: what it is that the real world truth is telling them,

116
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,560
Speaker 1: and then begin a process of laying out on the

117
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 1: table where they would like to go, so we can

118
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,520
Speaker 1: begin to see whether one uh there is on both sides,

119
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:28,040
Speaker 1: as they profess to speak, significant intention to resolve the

120
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 1: problem peacefully, and secondly to engender that even more by

121
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,960
Speaker 1: the conversation, and thirdly to begin to pick up the

122
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 1: pieces where there is potential overlap or where there could

123
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,880
Speaker 1: be made to be potential overlap as part of crafting

124
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 1: a wind wind solution. The Russians today complained that the

125
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 1: US did not seem to wish to accept all of

126
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 1: the five demands that they have made as an absolute

127
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,840
Speaker 1: capitulation to shore. Russia knows better than that. They know

128
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 1: that negotiations never succeed around a capitulation to the first

129
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,040
Speaker 1: demands of the other side, and of course we know

130
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,120
Speaker 1: that as well as we go down this road, so

131
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:20,760
Speaker 1: compromise the negotiation requires hard work, It requires strong understanding,

132
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 1: it requires innovation. So far we have not seen a

133
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,400
Speaker 1: consistent stick to it. It would be a very useful

134
00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,439
Speaker 1: sign if both presidents said, I'm naming so and so.

135
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,560
Speaker 1: He is my person or she is my person. They

136
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,760
Speaker 1: have my full support. They're going to sit at the

137
00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,600
Speaker 1: table and talk until this is resolved, and we're in

138
00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,400
Speaker 1: it for the long haul, which is resolution. I'm not

139
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,640
Speaker 1: sure someone like that exists in Moscow, Ambassador, but we

140
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,240
Speaker 1: learned today that Russia has expelled the U. S Deputy

141
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 1: Chief of Mission in Moscow, Bart Gorman. What does that

142
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,600
Speaker 1: move tell you? Well, just another escalation in the war

143
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 1: that has been going on now for years. Of picking

144
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,959
Speaker 1: on the diplomats because they're there, But I I know

145
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,160
Speaker 1: there are Russians who can help solve this problem if

146
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 1: they're given the right instructions. I've worked with them. The

147
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,760
Speaker 1: Secretary of State blinking today send the right message to

148
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 1: the Security Council. He invited Sergey laugh Row to sit

149
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 1: down next week. That's entirely right, and that's probably where

150
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: it should start. The Secretary and the Foreign Minister need

151
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,120
Speaker 1: to be around at the times when the negotiation gets

152
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,560
Speaker 1: tough and we need higher levels to break it. Neither

153
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,200
Speaker 1: can pull away from their regular jobs for the kind

154
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 1: of engaged activity that I think is necessary. But there

155
00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,199
Speaker 1: are very capable and very well informed people who can

156
00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,240
Speaker 1: do that kind of job. The question though, is do

157
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,560
Speaker 1: they have the trust of Vladimir Putin as he does

158
00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 1: he trust anyone really to fill that role that we

159
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,559
Speaker 1: keep hearing his inner circle has about two or three people, Ambassador,

160
00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,400
Speaker 1: Seemingly his level of trust is very low, and of course,

161
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,280
Speaker 1: as you know, he uses corruption as an inducement to

162
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 1: produce loyalty. How long that can work and in this

163
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 1: kind of context I do not know, but it is

164
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,720
Speaker 1: a confusing and in my view, not helpful picture to

165
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,040
Speaker 1: have that factor involved in the situation as well. You

166
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 1: were last with us just about a month ago. A

167
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 1: little more than that, Ambassador Pickering, where's your gut today

168
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,200
Speaker 1: on this whole matter? Do you see an invasion as

169
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: being imminent like we're hearing from the White House? I

170
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 1: have that bad feeling in my gut and will have

171
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,720
Speaker 1: it until we begin to see something that is more

172
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,400
Speaker 1: than declarations, which begins to move us away from confrontation

173
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 1: and towards a workout, and hopefully that will take place.

174
00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:48,600
Speaker 1: No rational human being in charge of a nation would

175
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 1: wish to threaten and carry through with the threat of

176
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 1: global warfare to achieve even the kind objectives that Mr

177
00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,800
Speaker 1: Putin is talking about, and we need constantly to work

178
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,200
Speaker 1: that in the hopes that at the end of the day,

179
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 1: a rational view not only about what's good for Russia

180
00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,679
Speaker 1: but preserves him in power, if that's what he's after

181
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,200
Speaker 1: here can be accommodated with an arrangement over a period

182
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,760
Speaker 1: of time where we can find the rules, the principles,

183
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,079
Speaker 1: the virtues and the values to live together. Ambassador, thank

184
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,600
Speaker 1: you for coming back to share your insights. Thomas Pickering,

185
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 1: former Ambassador to the United Nations, Ambassador to Russia, India, Israel, Nigeria, Jordan,

186
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:37,559
Speaker 1: and El Salvador, career ambassador with us on Bloomberg Sound on,

187
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,960
Speaker 1: and we're just getting started on the fastest hour in politics.

188
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,120
Speaker 1: We set the table and then assemble the panel and

189
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 1: coming up next we'll be talking with Kevin Walling, democratic

190
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 1: strategist at h G Creative Media. Frank Maisano, senior principle

191
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 1: at Bracewell is with us as well as we get

192
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,800
Speaker 1: their view with a very dangerous situation unfolding in Europe.

193
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: Stay with us. Will check traffic and market next time.

194
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:06,800
Speaker 1: Joe Matthew, this is Bloomberg. I am here today, not

195
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,920
Speaker 1: to start a war, but to prevent one. There is

196
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 1: a credible prospect that a Russian military action would take

197
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,160
Speaker 1: place even before the end of the Olympics. Intensions with

198
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,960
Speaker 1: Russia over its intentions in Ukraine continue to escalate, with

199
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,440
Speaker 1: President Biden this morning saying that the probability of an

200
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,560
Speaker 1: invasion is quote very high, and second Year State Tony

201
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,280
Speaker 1: Blinkoln appearing before the U n. Security Council to lay

202
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,679
Speaker 1: out US intelligence Russia has a'm asked more than a

203
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,840
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand troops around Ukraine's borders. In Russia

204
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,960
Speaker 1: l Rus occupied Armenian. Russia says it's drawing down those forces.

205
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 1: We do not see that happening on the ground. Russia

206
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,760
Speaker 1: invaded US into thousand for Kim, Russia invaded Premia, Russia

207
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 1: invaded the parts of the Natskan Dugan's territories, and for

208
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,559
Speaker 1: the past eight years we have been leaving under aggression

209
00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:04,120
Speaker 1: from Russia. Our information indicates clearly that these forces, including

210
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,400
Speaker 1: ground troops, aircraft ships, are preparing to launch an attack

211
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,280
Speaker 1: against Ukraine in the coming day. The annerals gathered in

212
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 1: the masses, just like witches at black masses. The sounds

213
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:28,120
Speaker 1: of rising tensions, where should I say deteriorating conditions. Thanks

214
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 1: for joining us on Bloomberg sound On the fastest hour

215
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,160
Speaker 1: in politics. The headline on the terminal. US ramps up

216
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:39,880
Speaker 1: Ukraine warnings as Russia denies invasion plans. We're still waiting

217
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 1: for some kind of breakthrough here. As we discussed the

218
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,000
Speaker 1: two steps shuffle that Vladimir Putin is taking with Ambassador Pickering.

219
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,520
Speaker 1: We now assemble the panel. Kevin Walling, democratic strategist at

220
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,760
Speaker 1: h G Creative Media, as well Frank Maisana, longtime Republican

221
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,840
Speaker 1: communications official on Capitol Hill, now senior principle at brace

222
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 1: Well and with us here on sound On. Thanks to

223
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,320
Speaker 1: both of you for being with us. Kevin, if you

224
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,040
Speaker 1: can say one thing for this administration is that it

225
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,959
Speaker 1: has been consistent since Vladimir Putin started to declare the

226
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,080
Speaker 1: de escalation the pullback earlier this week. Does Joe Biden

227
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,680
Speaker 1: believe what he's saying, that we're preparing for an imminence

228
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,680
Speaker 1: invasion or is this a strategy to keep it from happening. Well, Joe,

229
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 1: time will tell, but I think you're absolutely right and

230
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,800
Speaker 1: that this administration has been consistent if they've taken a

231
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 1: different attacks than we've seen in the past in terms

232
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 1: of the rapid declassification of some of the intelligence sharing

233
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 1: that on the world stage. As you played that clip

234
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 1: from Secretary Blincoln earlier today before the Security Council, obviously

235
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,840
Speaker 1: with the President's addressed two days ago from the East Room. Uh,

236
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,080
Speaker 1: the idea of providing on the world stage this material

237
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 1: with the direct ramifications should um Russia proceed farther into Ukraine,

238
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 1: I think has been the hallmark of what we've seen

239
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,800
Speaker 1: coming out of this administration in the past couple of

240
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 1: weeks and months leading up to this point. Certainly, Frank,

241
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,240
Speaker 1: the administration still says, the President and the Secretary of

242
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,320
Speaker 1: State that we are still favoring a diplomatic path. Isn't

243
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,080
Speaker 1: even possible at this point. Well, certainly one is always

244
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 1: possible the world and you know, the world is watching

245
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 1: right uh, and Russia surrounding its borders with Ukraine and

246
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 1: filling it up with troops, um. You know, and then

247
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 1: of course we get one report one day, one report

248
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 1: the next day. So you know, look, I think we're

249
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,440
Speaker 1: just gonna have to take one step back, take a

250
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,200
Speaker 1: deep breath, be prepared for them to do something that

251
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,520
Speaker 1: we wouldn't expect them to do, and in the end

252
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,040
Speaker 1: hope for the best and just keep pushing on. The

253
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 1: diplomatic said, I was somewhat distracted though, Joe by your

254
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 1: great lead in song. Uh. And I don't know if

255
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,680
Speaker 1: many people know, but many people know know that song,

256
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 1: but maybe you and I do because we're old enough

257
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 1: to know that. Yeah, Ozzy Osborne has never been with

258
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: us here on sound On before, but I'll tell you,

259
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 1: um there there is something that you look and at

260
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 1: least I know I was. I was really distracted. I

261
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 1: couldn't even hear what Blaken was saying in the clips

262
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 1: because I was listening to AI and Black Sabbath. We're

263
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 1: not trying to do that, Kevin. What's the next step here?

264
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,560
Speaker 1: Is it waiting for a response to the invitation destroy

265
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 1: gay Lavrov? And is I mean, my goodness, at what

266
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 1: point do we dispel with the theater or do we

267
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 1: have to continue talking knowing that they may have ulterior motives? Well,

268
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 1: when it comes to putin Joe, obviously theater, uh, you

269
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 1: know is the name of the game, you know. Obviously

270
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 1: the vice president is wheeled down in Munich. This is

271
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 1: the first time in a long time Russian UH folks

272
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 1: haven't participated in the Munich Security Conference. I think that

273
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,000
Speaker 1: in the coming hours and days will be an important

274
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 1: thing to watch. Obviously the Vice President on the world

275
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 1: stage in a very significant way, meeting with President Zelinski others.

276
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,880
Speaker 1: So I think that will be a really strong indicator

277
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,440
Speaker 1: in the in the hours and days to come. Certainly, uh,

278
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 1: you know, preparing for Russia's response to what Secretary Blanken

279
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 1: shared before the Security Council today with uh, you know,

280
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 1: foreign Mr lab Row, that invitation will certainly be a

281
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 1: focal point as well. But when it comes to Putin,

282
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,959
Speaker 1: it's all about pageantry, optics, what have you. But certainly,

283
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,359
Speaker 1: as I said before, you've seen a really a strong

284
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: administration rallying the West, rallying our NATO allies, and this

285
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 1: is actually having, you know, an adverse reaction. I think

286
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,159
Speaker 1: then what Putin anticipated, he anticipated a Western alliance frost

287
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 1: division and differences, and that pulled everyone together again. You know,

288
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,920
Speaker 1: it's interesting, as we heard from the Secretary of State, Frank,

289
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,720
Speaker 1: I'd like to have you just respond to something that

290
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 1: he mentioned today because he knew going in that that

291
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 1: a U S Secretary of State dispatched hastily to the

292
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 1: U N. Security Council, brings back memories of weapons of

293
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,160
Speaker 1: mass destruction of the late Colin Powell of the Vial.

294
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,520
Speaker 1: Here's what he said. Some have called into question our information,

295
00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:00,160
Speaker 1: recalling previous instances where intelligence ultimately did not bear out.

296
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,680
Speaker 1: But let me be clear. I am here today not

297
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: to start a war, but to prevent one. The information

298
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,880
Speaker 1: I presented here is validated by what we've seen unfolding

299
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 1: in plain sight before our eyes for months. Frank, is

300
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,199
Speaker 1: the US have credibility in that forum? Oh? I I

301
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 1: really do think they do. You know. The reality is

302
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,879
Speaker 1: it's much easier to see what's going on in the

303
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,119
Speaker 1: build up of troops there, uh in at the border

304
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 1: um and watch what they're doing, um, than than it

305
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 1: is to find weapons of mass destruction that we're underground

306
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 1: or hidden or moved around. So I mean, I do. Look,

307
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 1: this is a different case. It's a different story. The

308
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,800
Speaker 1: world knows that Russia is building up its forces on

309
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,639
Speaker 1: the border, and you know, the reality is the world

310
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 1: is gonna act, you know, in concert. The question is

311
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 1: what what his allies think that you know, does he

312
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,439
Speaker 1: undermine She's Olympics in the middle of it. That's a

313
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 1: whole that's a whole other question on the timeline. Frank,

314
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 1: thank you. Kevin will reassemble the panel later next we

315
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 1: take a look at the budget and if the lights

316
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 1: go out tomorrow. This is Bloomberg, who was right around

317
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: this time yesterday we we introduced you to the Crack Act.

318
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,719
Speaker 1: It was introduced by Senator Marco Rubio who claims, despite

319
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,880
Speaker 1: several denials from the White House and a similar effort

320
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 1: from Senator Marshall Blackburn before him, that the administration wants

321
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 1: to spend tens of millions of dollars on clean crack

322
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 1: pipes to provide to the at risk population. The Biden

323
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 1: administration is going to be sending crack pipes and meth

324
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 1: pipes targeting minority communities in this country, underserved communities. I

325
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 1: know that sounds insane. I know that sounds too crazy

326
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: to be true. They confirmed it yesterday. They're gonna they

327
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 1: call him smoking kids, and they say it's about equity.

328
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 1: But they have an essence confirmed that they're going to

329
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: be mailing and sending pipes. They have in essence confirmed, well,

330
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,040
Speaker 1: in essence, they have not. According to the depart and

331
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 1: of Health and Human Services. It's not true, White House

332
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 1: Press Secretary Jen Psaki repeatedly, not true. But it doesn't

333
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: have to be true to hold up a spending bill,

334
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 1: which is exactly what has happened with this and it's

335
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,199
Speaker 1: not the only challenge that has been made to this

336
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: piece of legislation. Good lord, we're just trying to get

337
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: through the next few weeks, and we're joined to talk

338
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 1: about it by Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick, who is the

339
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 1: specialist when it comes to appropriations here in Washington, and

340
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 1: of course no stranger to this broadcast. Thanks for being

341
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 1: with us, Jack. Where does this all stand here in

342
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: terms of the challenges to this bill? You know, it's

343
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 1: a weird set of circumstances. Lately. The crack pipe issue

344
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: has just been broken off of the negotiations for the

345
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,920
Speaker 1: stopgap measure. Senator Rubio asked for unanimous consent to just

346
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 1: separately pass his bill, uh and it was objected to

347
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,560
Speaker 1: actually not because of the crack pipe issue. Apparently the

348
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 1: language that he was proposing was even broader and mentioned

349
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: any cylindrical objects that could be used, and there was

350
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: a debate over mouthpieces versus act pipes. Either way, that

351
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: is not the issue regarding the stop gap. Now they

352
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: appear to have a deal to move through this uh

353
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 1: in time to fund the government. The deadline is tomorrow night,

354
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 1: and the amendment votes are actually too regarding Republican attempts

355
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 1: to block vaccine maps mandates and then another one that

356
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: would require federal budgets to be balanced. UH. It doesn't

357
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: look like they will have the votes on this. In fact,

358
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: that's almost the point. They seem to have waited until

359
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: enough Republicans left town, I believe, for a trip to

360
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 1: Munich so that the Democrats again have a working majority

361
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: because they have a couple of members absent. Benry Luhan

362
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,679
Speaker 1: had a stroke, Mark Kelly has a six family member,

363
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: so they essentially had to wait for there to be

364
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: more Democrats than Republicans so they can hold some amendment

365
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: votes attached to this stop gap that would then fail.

366
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 1: If they were to succeed, they'd have to send this

367
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: back to the House. The House isn't even in we'd

368
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: end up having cut down. But it looks like we're

369
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: on track to have some unsuccessful amendment votes and then

370
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: an actual vote to fund the government. Crack pipes aside,

371
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: This is incredible, so amazingly though we're twenty four hours

372
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: away Jack, and nobody's talking about a shutdown, which I

373
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: guess should tell us a lot about this moment. Right,

374
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 1: we're just fooling around knowing how this is going to end. Yeah,

375
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: it's kind of just another day in Washington. Keep in mind,

376
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: you know it. Look at the polls for how things

377
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 1: look for Republicans heading towards the mid terms. They look great.

378
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 1: The last thing they want is headlines of a Republican

379
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: shutdown because they opposed to stop gaps for whatever reason.

380
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody really entirely took seriously a threat

381
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: of a shutdown. Nobody was sincerely saying I'm going to

382
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: shut down the government over this issue or that. But

383
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: oftentimes a measure to fund the government and avoid to

384
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: shut down is seen as you know, they call it

385
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,479
Speaker 1: the Christmas tree. How many ornaments can we hang on

386
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: to this and at least get a symbolic vote, if

387
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: not something substantive. So this shows us the kinds of

388
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: issues they're they're wanting to fight over. I'm sure we'll

389
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: hear about the Crack Act in the future, but yeah,

390
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: it looks pretty good. I don't want to speak too soon,

391
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: but they are holding the amendment both now, and nobody's

392
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: talking about an actual likelihood of a shutdown. So let's

393
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 1: assume they get the work done. Jack, this is all approved,

394
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: we buy ourselves a few weeks. I believe it goes

395
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: to March eleventh. Uh, how close are we to a

396
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: real budget? The talks over an omnibus budget? I know

397
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: that you've been reporting on on top lines being delivered.

398
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: It seems like we've had quite a bit of progress,

399
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 1: at least till the House left town. Were things going

400
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: to be when they come back. Yeah, they've made enough

401
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: progress so that most of the lawmakers I've talked to

402
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: feel pretty good about the March eleven's deadline to actually

403
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: get a full omnibus funding deal. The one exception I

404
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: thought was notable, John Hoban, who works on a Republican

405
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: in the Senate who works on agriculture funding issues, that

406
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: he was actually a little surprised they didn't get more time,

407
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: And it does seem like they're giving them only a

408
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: few weeks to keep the pressure on. But mostly lawmakers

409
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: have said they're feel good about that. Uh, They've they've

410
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: all gotten allocations for each of the twelve funding bills,

411
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: so now they can actually write the bills. They need

412
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 1: to do that in the next couple of weeks so

413
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: they can actually get through this through the House and Senate.

414
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure there will be some sort of amendment process.

415
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: It's not the fastest thing in the world, but the

416
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: majority of lawmakers in both parties I've talked to in

417
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: the Senate this week have said they're feeling pretty good

418
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: about that. Margle eleventh day, that sounds pretty promising. We're

419
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: not used to this kind of conversation. Jack Fitzpatrick with

420
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: us from Capitol Hill as we sort of gauge the

421
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: timeline here and some of the theatric surrounding the debate

422
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: over a budget. Jack, a lot of people don't realize

423
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: this will help to actually unlock money from the infrastructure

424
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: law that was signed months ago. Yeah, there's actually total

425
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: of a couple hundred billion dollars of that infrastructure bill

426
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: that would not be suspendable until they appropriate the money.

427
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: It's following up on it in this omnibus government funding measure.

428
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: That is one reason it's important. I mean, overall, this

429
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: is going to be a roughly probably a little north

430
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: of one and a half trillion dollar government funding measure.

431
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: They're not sharing all the numbers with us. Obviously, negotiations

432
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: are still going on the following through on the infrastructure bill,

433
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: and I would say probably expect significant increases for public

434
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: health and climate initiatives, at least that was a major

435
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: focus for the initial bills that Democrats have put out.

436
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: Fascinating great reporting as always Jack Fitzpatrick, Bloomberg government reporter

437
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: and a regular here on Bloomberg Sound On. If you

438
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: want to know what's happening in this space, you talk

439
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: to Jack and great reporting on his part that you

440
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: can subscribe to. By the way I do the budget briefing,

441
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: go to the terminal, subscribe to it. You'll get a

442
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: wake up from Jack every day with what is going on.

443
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: We'll talk about this as we reassemble the panel coming

444
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: up next. Kevin Walling is with us along with Frank Maisano.

445
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: As we also have news on former President Donald Trump

446
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: potentially sitting for a deposition. I'll tell you what we're

447
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: talking about next here on Bloomberg sound On the fastest

448
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: hour in politics. Traffic and markets are on the way.

449
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg, so

450
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: no with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. You heard it

451
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: live just a few minutes ago. Bloomberg Government reporting. The

452
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: Senate is now working through the amendments to the stop

453
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: gap funding bill that will keep the lights on beyond

454
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: tomorrow and by lawmakers enough time to come up with

455
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: the real thing, an actual omnibus budget. By the eleventh

456
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: of March. Jack Fitzpatrick was with us, feeling fairly positive

457
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: about all this. Nobody's talking about a shutdown, but the

458
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: hurdles we have to go through the laboring, unless, of course,

459
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: you're on the other side of these amendments. Senator Ted

460
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: Cruz Senator Roger Marshall, Republican from Texas Kansas, respectively, have

461
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: proposals aimed at upending President Biden's vaccine mandate rule. We

462
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: already talked about Marco Rubio's Track Act, which has been

463
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: dispatched from the bill. Maybe they'll have this figured out

464
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: by the end of the night. As we reassemble the panel,

465
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: Kevin Walling, Democratic strategist HD Creative Media is with us

466
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: for the hour, along with Frank Maison, a longtime Republican

467
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: communications official now senior principal at Bracewell. Frank, you were

468
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: a press secretary for any number of Republican members of

469
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: Congress over the years. Is this just par for the course.

470
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: We have to go through these gyrations before you pass

471
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: even a stop gap a CR Well, you know, there's

472
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: I was. I worked for members on the Appropriations Committee,

473
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: and back then in the day, they worked together pretty well.

474
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: Even after the New Gingrich era, but you know, things

475
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: have really gone south. And I think the tightness of

476
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: the political environment to three each vote margin in the Senate,

477
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: the zero vote margin in the in the Senate, the

478
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: three vote margin in the House, I think that's added

479
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: additional pressure. John Dingle, of the great former congressman who

480
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 1: passed away, he used to say, we got about until

481
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: April and then it's the silly season to politics. And

482
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: I think unfortunately we hit that sometime last October because

483
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: of the narrowness of the elections, and so I think

484
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: everything we see is tinted towards uh, towards politics. And

485
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: then the best example of it is Republicans attacking other

486
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: Republicans for voting for an infrastructure bill. That's all I

487
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: mean looked at and that happened, right, So we're in

488
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: the silly season. It's gonna get even worse as we

489
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: head down the road. And I just don't you know

490
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: that this is all part of it, right, Um, This

491
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: is all part of that type of political posturing that

492
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: we're going to see, not just from Republicans and Ted Cruz,

493
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: who was really good at that, but all sides. But

494
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: you do have twelve of twelve bills with top lines. Frank,

495
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: this this is looks like it's going to happen before

496
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: March eleven. Right, that would be progress. Well, we'll see.

497
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know again, you know, the verberations process

498
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: is always the slow process. Um. And right now, if

499
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: they keep doing gap, stop gap, stop gap, Democrats don't

500
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: aren't able to put their impromoter on the budget process

501
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: because they basically just keep renewing Trump budget numbers. Right.

502
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: So the longer that that goes on, the less likely

503
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: it is for Democrats to really have taken control of

504
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: the budget process, despite the fact that they've had full

505
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: control basically since January you know, seventh, or fifth or whenever.

506
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: We just discussed a couple of hundred billion dollars in

507
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: infrastructure spending locked up in this budget, Kevin walling silly season. Now,

508
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: what is it gonna look like by summer? Yeah, Joe,

509
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: I think we're forever, to Frank's point, stuck in silly season,

510
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: you know it. To Frank's point, I'm hopeful You've got

511
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: some serious lawmakers and Richard Shelby in the Senate on

512
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: the Republican side, obviously, Patrick leahy Uh, you know Rosa, LAUA,

513
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: k I V. You know, these are senior members that

514
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: have a real strong interest in in moving this bill

515
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: down the road, uh, and not get held up to

516
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: your point, Joe, on the the silliness in terms of

517
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: these optic bills, these optic amendments, like the crack issue

518
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: you saw, you know, uh serious, I think it was

519
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: tetrically he said. You know, we might be facing a

520
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: third world world, a third World war, you know, in

521
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: the Senate, and you want to talk about crack pipes.

522
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: You know that isn't actually an issue. Um So, so

523
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful that that process will move along. DIFRC. I

524
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: guess it's going to get its own vote, Kevin. The

525
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: cutting rampant access to crack kits, known to some as

526
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: the Crack Act, Still after that figured out the way

527
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: to spell that out to make it sound like cracks.

528
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: But that was actually somebody's job, wasn't it, Frank to

529
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: come up with that? Yeah? It always is. Yeah, In fact,

530
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: I've been in many of those times. We have to

531
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: try and figure out a good acronym for it. But

532
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: you know the reality is that it hurts Republicans to

533
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: distract is somebody mentioned I think Joe or your your

534
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: guy who was on the budget guy John Um. You know,

535
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: it distracts Republicans to have uh from from their cause

536
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: if they have something like this that becomes a roadblock

537
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: and blows up. If they just talk about messaging things

538
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: and you know all the evils that the Biden administrations aren't,

539
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: but but then blow it up and if they get

540
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: they get some sort of blame for it. That hurts them.

541
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: So you know, this is this is they have to

542
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: be careful that they don't overdo it in the political process.

543
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: Uh and and and undermine their own chances of success.

544
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: Spending time with Kevin and Frank are panel today on

545
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On, I have to ask you about the

546
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: Trump story both of you. As I read on the

547
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: terminal Trump can be deposed by New York Attorney General

548
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: Judge Rules. I thought, what and they don't have a

549
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: lot of time, by the way, to figure this out

550
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: twenty one days. Uh. If there's a way out of this,

551
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: as the former president and two of his adult children

552
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: that's Donald Jr. And Ivanka must testify in New York

553
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: Attorney General Letitia James civil probe of the Trump organization.

554
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: But as I read here, Kevin, they don't have to

555
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: actually answer the questions. They have to show up, I understand.

556
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: But refusing to answer the questions based on their constitutional

557
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: right not to testify against themselves, UH is allowed. And

558
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: so therefore what are we going to learn? Yeah, Joan,

559
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: I don't think that much. And obviously we saw Eric

560
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: Trump participate in the in the probe last year where

561
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: he invoked the Fifth Amendment more than five times in

562
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: that deposition. So I don't think we're going to get

563
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: a lot of details out of it. But I do

564
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: think there's a significant amount uh to be said for

565
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: in terms of the optics of seeing UH. You know,

566
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: the former president his adult children come before and said

567
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: at a conference table be sworn in UH. And you

568
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: know that that those ads make themselves in terms of

569
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: him just saying that the amendments at the Amendment to

570
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: the Amendment, with the news, with his accounting firm and

571
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: things like that. This is a headache for Republicans certainly

572
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: heading into them in terms because again, it it eats

573
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: Trump in the news, which is something that Republicans don't

574
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: want to Frank's point in terms of a messaging issue,

575
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: what's you take on this, Frank, Sometimes this can actually

576
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: him power Trump fans. Well, you know, certainly it does

577
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: empower Trump fans, But you know, honestly, I think we

578
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,479
Speaker 1: saw what happens when you focus on Trump and Trump

579
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: alone in the in the in the the mid mid

580
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: term election there in the state of Virginia where he

581
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: had Frankly, a very credible former governor running in in

582
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: in in what is relatively purplish blue Virginia, and he

583
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: was defeated by a candidate who stayed away from the

584
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: Trump message and walk that fine line. Not everybody's going

585
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: to be able to do that, but I think that

586
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: he set a model for how you can get over that.

587
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: And I think what we saw is that a lot

588
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: of people uh in Virginia and in New Jersey especially

589
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: were focused on inflation, they were focused on the challenges

590
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: with COVID at the time, They're focused on gas prices

591
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: and where they were, and you know a lot of

592
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: the things that that affect people's pocketbooks. And you could

593
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: argue that he actually stayed pretty close to the to

594
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: the Trump message. He just stayed away from Trump physically, Frank,

595
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: isn't that the case that? And you know, and that

596
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: Trump kind of bluster, right, but not Trump bluster, which

597
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: always is a is a benefit in some cases, is

598
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: a negative in in many other cases. And if you

599
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: notice that there's this Rhonda Santis is succeeding in this mold, uh,

600
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: Nikki Hailey likely couldn't succeed in this mold. They can

601
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: capture a lot of that Trump mantra without the hysterics

602
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: of the Trump personality. And I think that's the winning

603
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: recipe for a lot of Republicans. Kevin, does this rub

604
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: off in a negative way at least on any of

605
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: the candidates for midterm races that Donald Trump has endorsed,

606
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: or does it give them more Ammo? It's it's a

607
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: good question, Joe. I think you know we're still fun

608
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, right, Yeah, we're a little ways

609
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: away still from the midrooms. I know that, you know,

610
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: we see everything through that lens. Who knows what the

611
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: breaking issue will be two hundred in from out. So

612
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a case by case basis

613
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: in terms of how close they hugged a former president

614
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 1: in some of these type races where he has endorsed,

615
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: whether it be for example, that we're seeing play out

616
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: in Alabama, for example, where he's having some regrets, some

617
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, regrets in North Carolina with his back candidates,

618
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: um so. And we'll also see the power of Mitch McConnell, right,

619
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: who's taking a different track on some of these UH

620
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: nominees in places like Pennsylvania, in places like Georgia and others.

621
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: Um so. So. Again, I think it's we're a little

622
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: too far out there to see that the ramifications of

623
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: that works. At the backdrop, I will I will add

624
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: this though, Joe, I will where we are seeing where

625
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: things to watch, and then some of the primaries will

626
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: be like in Georgia where David Purdue really isn't getting

627
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: much ground where they thought he would. And so that's

628
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: that's gonna be kind of the recipe that we have

629
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: to see ums tried to take lots of credit for things,

630
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, so far, with Virginia as an example,

631
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: he really didn't get much of the credit it although

632
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: he tried to take it. Frank Bezano, Kevin Walling, great conversation,

633
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us on our panel. As we

634
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: turned out of Bloomberg's Nita Young on this day in

635
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: Black History, in Albert Richardson patented the butter churn. Up

636
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: until then, anyone who wanted butter had to make it

637
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: by hand in a bowl. But Richardson's invention would eventually

638
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: make it easier to make butter and forever change the

639
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: food industry. Throughout his life, Richardson had a habit of

640
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 1: seeing a problem and then inventing a solution. One such

641
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 1: problem he saw was the way dead people were buried

642
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 1: at the time. It was in shallow graves or lowering

643
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: caskets with ropes into a deeper hole, and this required

644
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: several people to work in unison, which wasn't always possible,

645
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: and it could result in damaging the casket. So in

646
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: Richardson patented the casket lowering device, and it's used in

647
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 1: all cemeteries today. Richardson also invented the home fastener and

648
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: insect destroyer, and an improved design of the bottle that's

649
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: today in LA History. I'm Nito Young, Bloomberg Radio. Thank you, Nita.

650
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: We'll do this all over again tomorrow. I'll meet you

651
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: back here. Fastest hour in politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This

652
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg