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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland.

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Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and how the

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Speaker 1: tech are you. I have a special treat a beloved

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Speaker 1: friend peer peer is doing injustice. She does so much

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Speaker 1: more than I do. I have a dear friend who

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Speaker 1: has agreed to give up her precious time to agree

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Speaker 1: to my whim of appearing on one of the final

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Speaker 1: episodes of tech Stuff I'll ever be hosting. It is

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Speaker 1: Shannon Morse. Welcome back to tex Stuff.

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Speaker 2: Shannon, Hello, Jonathan, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I am? I'm great. Like the closer I get to

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Speaker 1: the end, the more i'm I got a little spring

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Speaker 1: in my step. Not that I not that I hate

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Speaker 1: doing stuff, but I'm looking forward to what comes next.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm always excited to see what's coming next.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. For Shannon, what comes next is that before too

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Speaker 1: long she's going to be packing for Las Vegas to

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Speaker 1: head off to CES.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. In a whole like I'm counting down the days

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Speaker 2: right now. I think I have ten days. I'm in

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Speaker 2: panic mode where I'm like scheduling the last minute sponsorships,

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Speaker 2: last minute schedules of like booth tours, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh god, oh god, I have to make sure that

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Speaker 2: I leave enough time in between all these meetings so

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Speaker 2: that I can, you know, get down the Las Vegas

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Speaker 2: Strip from one one hotel to another, because you know,

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Speaker 2: it's an entire maze.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, No, it used to. When I first started,

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Speaker 1: it was the majority of the stuff I wanted to

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Speaker 1: see was actually in the Sands Expo Center before before,

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Speaker 1: like I mean, like for a while, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh wait, there's a convention center too't even I was

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Speaker 1: such a nube. And it's funny that I that were

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Speaker 1: even starting off about this because honestly, like our story,

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Speaker 1: like the first time I met you in person was

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Speaker 1: at a CES. It's probably two thousand and eight or

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, Yeah, somewhere around then.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and nine, I believe was my very first CES.

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Speaker 2: And that's right after I started working with Hack five.

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Speaker 2: So we went down there as a crew and I

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Speaker 2: believe that year we recorded like forty something segments at CES.

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Speaker 2: It was insane. It was bonkers, No wonder I got

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Speaker 2: sick every year after that.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting sick just thinking about it. I was there

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Speaker 1: by myself, and I was largely directionless. Because while you

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Speaker 1: are talking about strategizing and planning things out and having

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Speaker 1: you know your schedule and making sure one of the things,

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Speaker 1: By the way, if you ever do get into the

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Speaker 1: world of covering ces, one of the most important things

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Speaker 1: you can do is make sure you have built in

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Speaker 1: time between different appointments, because, yes, getting from point A

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Speaker 1: to point B is never straightforward, even if it's the

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Speaker 1: same convention center. It can carry to you half an hour.

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Speaker 2: The casinos are huge, and it takes forever to get

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Speaker 2: like an uber or a lyft or even a shuttle

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Speaker 2: or one of the monorail transportations if you can do

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Speaker 2: the monorail between the different places. So you always have

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Speaker 2: to like plan that into your schedule to ensure you

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Speaker 2: have time for traffic and for all the people, because

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Speaker 2: CEES ends up bringing in over one hundred thousand extra

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Speaker 2: people into that city, and almost every single person is

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Speaker 2: on the strip or at the convention center, so it

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Speaker 2: ends up being crazy, crazy packed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to the point where like they moved all the

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Speaker 1: press events. At least the last time I went, all

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Speaker 1: the press events were down toward like the Mandalay Bay side,

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Speaker 1: So that's that's about as far on the strip as

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Speaker 1: you can get from the Convention Center. Obviously there are

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Speaker 1: other parts of Vegas besides the Strip, but that's like

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Speaker 1: the heart and soul of where Cees happens. Anything that

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Speaker 1: happens off the strip, that's a huge commitment to have

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Speaker 1: to go off because you know it's going to take

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Speaker 1: you quite some time to get back. But my first

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Speaker 1: memory of you, Shannon, is that I remember being I

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Speaker 1: think it was like maybe Convention Center North at the

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Speaker 1: Las Vegash Convention Center, and I see you and I

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Speaker 1: had never met you before in my life, and for

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Speaker 1: some reason our paths had crossed and we introduced each other,

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Speaker 1: and then you gave me a hug, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: you have no idea how badly I needed that, because

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Speaker 1: I felt so directionless and so out of my element. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is not one of the reasons I wanted

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Speaker 1: to have you on from one of my final shows.

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Speaker 1: Is this is not me blowing smoke. You are one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons that I wanted to stick with podcasting

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Speaker 1: because I had only been doing it for about a

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Speaker 1: year at that point. Oh my gosh, And you know,

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Speaker 1: you start feeling like you're you're talking into a void

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Speaker 1: if you don't have a lot of audience feedback right away.

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Speaker 1: Let's have the method, right We didn't want to give

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Speaker 1: out our personal emails on the show, and we didn't

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Speaker 1: have a show email for a while, so, but having

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Speaker 1: someone who was also working in communication tech communication and uh,

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Speaker 1: trying to synthesize complex ideas and then communicate them in

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Speaker 1: a way that's easy to understand and to digest. Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, meeting a kindred soul like that who not

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Speaker 1: only was a kindred soul, but someone who is outwardly

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Speaker 1: just welcoming and friendly was a huge impact on me

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Speaker 1: and was just an enormous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, made me cry. That's really sweet.

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Speaker 1: And y'all have to remember too that I'm approximately seventy

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Speaker 1: years older than Shannon is.

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Speaker 2: That's a lie. We're the same age.

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Speaker 1: We are not the same age. We're both Okay, I

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Speaker 1: like okay, I like your version. I like your version

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Speaker 1: a lot. So, but that's that's that's getting way too

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Speaker 1: far ahead in your story. That's just where our friendship began,

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Speaker 1: and we would typically reconnect at cees pretty much like

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Speaker 1: that was the one time of year. I think I

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Speaker 1: met you at a dragon con. Once it came to

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Speaker 1: one dragon con I did.

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Speaker 2: My friends got married down there, so I flew out

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Speaker 2: for their wedding because I was one of their bridesmaids

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Speaker 2: or something I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was cool, though seeing you like on the

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Speaker 1: other coast was neat. But let's talk about your journey

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Speaker 1: into becoming what you are today. So let's just start, like,

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Speaker 1: can you tell me kind of your earliest memories of

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Speaker 1: even being interested in technology as a concept, let alone

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Speaker 1: as this is something I want to pursue as a career.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I would love to.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in a military household. My dad was military,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's why I'm so friendly with people,

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Speaker 2: because I had to force myself to make friends every

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Speaker 2: single time we moved somewhere new or I would be

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Speaker 2: walking into a new school with apps no friends. So

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Speaker 2: that was always a thing for me, is like, I

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Speaker 2: want to surround myself with friendship, and I forced myself

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Speaker 2: into it. But when I was young and a nerd,

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Speaker 2: my dad would always watch like Star Trek and X

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Speaker 2: Files and like all those nerdy shows after work, So

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Speaker 2: I would always like sit in the living room with

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Speaker 2: him and watch those and eventually I think he noticed

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Speaker 2: signs that I was into the same things he was,

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Speaker 2: so he would invite me to eventually build a computer

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Speaker 2: with him, and I think that was around eight years old. Wow,

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Speaker 2: I do have photos. I don't remember it personally because

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Speaker 2: I was way too young to remember this, but I

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Speaker 2: do have photos of me sitting on his lap and

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Speaker 2: banging at his keyboard on an old like IBM type PC,

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Speaker 2: like something that he had built in the eighties, way

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Speaker 2: way way before my time. When I was just a

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Speaker 2: little teeny, tiny toddler. I had no idea what I

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Speaker 2: was doing. I have pictures of me playing on this

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Speaker 2: computer and not really knowing what I was doing. But

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Speaker 2: I think him inviting me to do that as a

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Speaker 2: little baby influenced my direction as a child and gave

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Speaker 2: me that interest in PCs.

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Speaker 1: So when he.

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Speaker 2: Gave me the opportunity to help build the family computer

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Speaker 2: when I was, you know, a little eight year old kid,

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Speaker 2: I was like absolutely So I remember building this computer,

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Speaker 2: having this huge tower, huge motherboard, the ramsticks were gigantic,

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Speaker 2: like everything was big back then. We had a floppy

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Speaker 2: disc reader like all that stuff, putting all that together

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Speaker 2: on the dining room table, and we had this old,

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Speaker 2: like wooden nineteen nineties dining room table, like very quite

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Speaker 2: ugly nowadays, but very very you know, classic nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 2: I just remember how proud I was when we plugged

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Speaker 2: it into power and it powered on and it worked,

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Speaker 2: and he let me install video games. So I learned

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Speaker 2: so much through him. I really have to thank my dad, Like,

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Speaker 2: even though we don't necessarily have a great relationship now,

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Speaker 2: back in the day, like, I have to thank him

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Speaker 2: for so much of my nerdiness and my interests that

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Speaker 2: I kind of delved into as just a little kid.

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Speaker 2: I think it really influenced what I do today.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I'm hearing a lot of parallels of my own experience.

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Speaker 1: I mean, granted, for me, my first computer was a

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Speaker 1: Texas Instrument trash machine. But then I went to Apple

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Speaker 1: to E and then eventually got my first IBM competible.

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Speaker 1: When I say I, I mean the family I didn't

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Speaker 1: have it. It was the family computer. My dad writes

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Speaker 1: science fiction. In fact, he's written books in the Star

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Speaker 1: Trek series, so there's a lot of overlap here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he wrote in the young adult Star Trek series. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Brad Strickland, look it up. Brad Strickland. He wrote several

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Speaker 1: books in the young adult Star Trek series, which was

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Speaker 1: like Starfleet Academy talking about you know, Spock and Kirk

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Speaker 1: when they were students at Starfleet that kind of stuff. Yes, cool, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up going to these science fiction conventions

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Speaker 1: and meeting the various people who were in the shows

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Speaker 1: and the movies and stuff amazing, you know. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's so many great stories, running into people like George

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Speaker 1: de Kay and it was fantastic. Yeah, oh wow, it

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Speaker 1: was great. But same sort of thing where my dad

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Speaker 1: kind of instilled in me this joy of geekery and

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Speaker 1: technology as well as literature. Like Dad taught American Lit,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was respectful, but I ended up majoring

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Speaker 1: in English Lit because I had to do one better.

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Speaker 1: But so similar stories there. So were you drawn to

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Speaker 1: any classes or anything when you were going through school

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Speaker 1: in the field of tech, Like when I was in

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Speaker 1: high school. Well, first I was going to high school

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Speaker 1: in rural George, so yeah, our resources were somewhat limited,

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Speaker 1: but I seem the closest, the closest for me was

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Speaker 1: a data processing class, which was essentially learning to type

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Speaker 1: on keyboards and do spreadsheets and that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Nothing particularly, you know, nothing close to coding, but that

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Speaker 1: was as close as I could get in school.

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Speaker 2: Luckily, the schools that I went to were either on

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Speaker 2: military bases and they generally had pretty good financing to

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Speaker 2: have a lot of computers and stuff like that, or

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Speaker 2: I was going to school right off of a military

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Speaker 2: base once my dad retired from the military. So every

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Speaker 2: school that I went to, even though it was in

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Speaker 2: Missouri and our educational system was not the best in

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Speaker 2: the United States, we still had a lot of access

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Speaker 2: to technology. So I don't remember what year it was,

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Speaker 2: but I do have really early memories of having a

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Speaker 2: typing class where, you know, we played Oregon Trail and

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Speaker 2: we played mathematical games, and we had typing days. And

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Speaker 2: I noticed that when I was in those classrooms, and

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Speaker 2: then I would go home and be able to practice

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Speaker 2: typing at home too, because I was playing on that

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Speaker 2: computer I built with my dad, I noticed that I

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Speaker 2: was one of the fastest typers in the class. So

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Speaker 2: it ended up being a passion for me where I

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Speaker 2: was like, I want to play on computers more because

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Speaker 2: this is something that I can tell that I'm good at.

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Speaker 2: And it was weird because not a lot of girls

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Speaker 2: were into that when I was growing up, a lot

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Speaker 2: of the girls in my classes wanted to do other

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Speaker 2: stuff like play instruments and band, which I never got into.

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Speaker 2: But I was really into singing and acting, so I

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Speaker 2: really wanted to do that too. So it was like

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Speaker 2: all the little electives I got very passionate about, but

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Speaker 2: I had no interest in literature. I had no interest

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Speaker 2: in math sciences. I was like, I was okay at science,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't really want to do it. So I

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Speaker 2: just really wanted to focus on like the media side

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Speaker 2: of the electives as well as the technology sides because

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Speaker 2: those were the things that I found were things that

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Speaker 2: I was very interested in.

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Speaker 1: Wow. So that yeah, like literally at an early age,

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Speaker 1: it's the components that make up what your career is today.

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Speaker 1: The community, you know, being able to communicate. There's a

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Speaker 1: skill to that that I think goes largely unappreciated until

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Speaker 1: you see someone who perhaps is early on in their

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Speaker 1: journey into becoming a communicator, where you can see the

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Speaker 1: sausage being made a little bit more. They're not as

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Speaker 1: not quite as as polished. Perhaps they might have a

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Speaker 1: great perspective, they might be have great insight, right, but

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Speaker 1: maybe their communication skills need a little more work. Nothing

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Speaker 1: wrong with that. Actually I prefer that to the people

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Speaker 1: who are very polished but have nothing to say. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those are the ones that I'm like, well, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of unless you have a teleprompter feeding them the stuff

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Speaker 1: they need to say, they aren't going to communicate anything

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Speaker 1: particularly useful.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of how I feel, like, kind of awkward,

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Speaker 2: a little bit weird, but at the same time, like

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Speaker 2: I want to share things that I'm learning with people.

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Speaker 2: I think part of that might be because I'm the

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Speaker 2: oldest out of three kids, So my little brother and sister,

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Speaker 2: they would come to me if they had a question

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Speaker 2: if I wasn't beating them up at the time, So anytime,

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Speaker 2: like they wanted to learn, you know, how to plug

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Speaker 2: in and play the new Mario game on the Nintendo,

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Speaker 2: or if they wanted to learn how to play a

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Speaker 2: video game on Dad's computer on the family computer in

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Speaker 2: the family room, like I would, I would be the

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Speaker 2: one that would be teaching them how to do this

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Speaker 2: stuff since my dad would be at work until you know,

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Speaker 2: five or six PM. So I think part of part

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Speaker 2: of the reason why I'm you know, have this nerdy

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Speaker 2: representation of like awkwardness, and I'm totally fine with sharing

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Speaker 2: that on camera because we're all a little bit weird

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Speaker 2: and I think that's perfectly fine, but also wanting to

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Speaker 2: educate people and wanting to share things that I have

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Speaker 2: learned and gotten excited about. Like, I'm sure part of

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Speaker 2: that is because my little brother and sister, like I

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Speaker 2: wanted them to be nerds too, So I was like,

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Speaker 2: let me show my nerdy things to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that you were teaching them both how

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Speaker 1: to interact and interface with technology as well as how

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Speaker 1: to take a good left hook. Yeah, it's I mean.

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Speaker 2: Too when they go in your room and try to

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Speaker 2: overwrite your safe game on the Lion King or something.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, that's crut back in the day. But no, no, no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we're actually finally getting back into a realm.

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Speaker 1: Not finally, it's happened over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: but like a lot of independent games, they're being made

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Speaker 1: by the people who grew up playing those Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: incredibly challenging, unforgiving games. And so now you get things

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Speaker 1: like UFO fifty or even older ones like super Meat

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Speaker 1: Boy or whatever, where it's clearly pulling from that ethos

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Speaker 1: of let's make this game brutally hard and okay't save well,

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Speaker 1: then where do we go from there? So you're going

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Speaker 1: through the elementary, middle school, high school. Yeah, you're developing

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Speaker 1: this interest in media as well as in technology. What

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Speaker 1: happens next?

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Speaker 2: I ended up doing like a lot of plays when

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Speaker 2: I was in high school. I got really into theater

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Speaker 2: and got into choir. I ended up finding a really

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Speaker 2: good talent for those, so by the time I was

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Speaker 2: a senior, I got in a word best actress for

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Speaker 2: a class out of three hundred people. So that's quite

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Speaker 2: a bit.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, quick favorite play? I got to know your

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Speaker 1: favorite play?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I would say Into the Woods.

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Speaker 1: Okay, excellent.

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Speaker 2: I love Into the Woods. I played Cinderella, so I'm

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Speaker 2: kind of biased there. And I had such a blast

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Speaker 2: doing that because it was my first, like really major

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Speaker 2: role when I was in high school. So I loved

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Speaker 2: it so much. It was incredible for me. And it

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Speaker 2: was incredible too because it kind of took me out

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Speaker 2: of my shell quite a bit because I was a

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Speaker 2: nerd I didn't have a lot of friends, so that

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Speaker 2: show and the fact that my drama teacher was really

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Speaker 2: he wanted to see me succeed and he really trained

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Speaker 2: me to be really good on stage. He was like,

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Speaker 2: you're going to train yourself. You're going to learn these things,

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Speaker 2: and you're going to go on stage and you're going

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Speaker 2: to blow everybody's minds, Like people are going to cry

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Speaker 2: when you sing this song. And I was like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, okay, and it worked. Like it really helped

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Speaker 2: me get out of my awkward, like self conscious shell

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Speaker 2: when I was in high school, and that was one

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Speaker 2: of the big turning points for me going into this

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Speaker 2: career later on, you know, after college days. So I

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Speaker 2: was doing that on the like artist side, and then

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Speaker 2: on the technical side, I was trying to get into

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Speaker 2: classes like JavaScript. I learned that I was building websites

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Speaker 2: at home, like in HTML, and eventually I learned a

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Speaker 2: little bit about C plus plus. So there was some

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Speaker 2: programming involved in a lot of self teaching that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff because we didn't have all of those types

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Speaker 2: of classes available. We just had a few here and there.

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Speaker 2: And I took some classes on journalism because it was

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Speaker 2: something I was kind of wondering if I should dip

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Speaker 2: my toes into so I tried to learn about journalism

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Speaker 2: and see if it was something I would be interested in.

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Speaker 2: So once I got into college, my agreement with my

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Speaker 2: dad was if I go to college in the state,

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Speaker 2: he would help me with my tuition. I would cover

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Speaker 2: everything else, but he would help me with my tuition.

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Speaker 2: And this is way back in the day when tuitions

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Speaker 2: were not super expensive. They were much much cheaper than

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Speaker 2: what they are today, so we're talking not too bad.

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Speaker 2: I still had three jobs when I was in college

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Speaker 2: to afford living on my own, buying my books, buying

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Speaker 2: meals and stuff like that. So I worked at like

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Speaker 2: a Domino's Pizza so I could get free pizza every day.

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Speaker 2: Not the best diet, but you know what I survived.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's admirable already, because, like, as you

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Speaker 1: point out, like even though it's not as astronomically expensive

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Speaker 1: as it is today, I mean, it's still a big

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Speaker 1: chunk of change. Oh yeah, and you know, going out

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Speaker 1: and being able to hustle so that you can.

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Speaker 2: I had to, Like I bought my first car, and

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Speaker 2: I remember one time a tire blew out while I

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Speaker 2: was on the highway driving home so I could do

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Speaker 2: my laundry at my parents' house, and I didn't know

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Speaker 2: what to do. I had to pay for a new tire,

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Speaker 2: and like little things like that, those little emergencies you

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Speaker 2: run into. You don't realize how expensive that stuff is

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Speaker 2: until you're living on your own and you're in charge

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Speaker 2: of those expenses. So that was a major growing pain

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Speaker 2: for myself, is just moving out of my parents' house

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Speaker 2: and becoming very independent and learning how to take care

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Speaker 2: of myself. It was tough, but you know, those were

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Speaker 2: the college days. It was hard. But I'm glad that

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Speaker 2: I had so many jobs and I'm glad that I

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Speaker 2: did it, and I'm glad I learned even postage was expected.

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Speaker 2: I remember like having to mail a check for something,

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Speaker 2: and I remember how how I was just like what

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Speaker 2: the stamp price went up? It went up from like

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Speaker 2: thirty nine cents to forty one cents or something, and

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Speaker 2: I was just like, what this is more expensive now?

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't budget for this.

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Speaker 2: I did not budget for this two cent increase on

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Speaker 2: a stamp, Like what the what the I do not agree?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, like like to your point, like

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Speaker 1: those emergency things Like I remember when I first got

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Speaker 1: out of college, I was living so close like it

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Speaker 1: was literally paycheck to paycheck. Yea, where you're living so

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Speaker 1: close to what you're making that anything that happens out

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Speaker 1: of the routine is.

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Speaker 2: It really screws up everything.

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Speaker 1: It's monumental, Like yeah, like even if you've saved up

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Speaker 1: to do something, if something unexpected happens on top of that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Because I'm thinking, I'm thinking about how I found out

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Speaker 1: I was severely allergic to lobster, which was aboard a

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Speaker 1: cruise ship docked it. Now saw that you don't want

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Speaker 1: to be you don't want to be docted at Nassau

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Speaker 1: when you're having a medical emergency. Uh. But you know,

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Speaker 1: my partner works for in the travel industry, so we

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Speaker 1: were able to get this cruise ticket for like a

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Speaker 1: severely marked down price, which is the only reason we

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Speaker 1: were able to go. This was like a luxurious vacation

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Speaker 1: for us. And then I have a medical emergency on

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Speaker 1: board that literally doubled the price of the cruise. Uh,

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Speaker 1: because we had to pay so I wouldn't die. And

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Speaker 1: so because that's how that's how healthcare works in our country,

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Speaker 1: but I did that. I did not die, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we were able to recover. But yeah, it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things where it's a tough life lesson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it's hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is very hard. So I can I completely

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Speaker 1: empathize with your tire story. Hey, y'all, it's Jonathan from

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Speaker 1: the Future here too to tell you we're going to

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Speaker 1: take a quick break with this interview with Shannon Morris

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Speaker 1: to thank our sponsors. We'll be right back. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: at what stage, what were you still in school when

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Speaker 1: you were starting to experiment with using the Internet as

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Speaker 1: a communications delivery mechanism, because when I was in school, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's cool, because like when I was in school, the

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Speaker 1: web was brand new. Yeah, and there certainly was no

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Speaker 1: like streaming element, Like everything was message.

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Speaker 2: Boards, like it was all text based. Oh, I remember

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Speaker 2: message boards. I was in a chat room called bras

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Speaker 2: Chat from Space Ghost Coast to coast, and it was

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Speaker 2: just a bunch of strangers chatting with each other, which

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Speaker 2: was probably not the smartest thing to do when I

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Speaker 2: was a young girl, but I had no idea what

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Speaker 2: I was doing, so I was just chatting with people

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Speaker 2: about Space Ghost and Brack like it was pretty nerdy stuff,

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Speaker 2: so I'm pretty sure I was fine, but not necessarily

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Speaker 2: a recommendation I would give these days. So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: was doing stuff like that when I was in school.

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Speaker 2: I was building websites again, like geocites, angel fire, stuff

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Speaker 2: like that. I was the perfect age for that. And

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Speaker 2: I was also into anime and nerdy things as well,

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Speaker 2: like Sailor Moon. So I was building like Sailor Moon websites.

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Speaker 2: And then journaling came along on the Internet, so I

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Speaker 2: was able to use some of my previous journalism classes

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Speaker 2: to understand how to write efficiently and how to write

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Speaker 2: in a way that people would understand. And it was

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Speaker 2: journal It was like this is what I did in

436
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 2: school today, but it was still being able to post

437
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 2: like little articles that people could read. They don't exist

438
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 2: to this day. I don't know what happened to those websites.

439
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 2: They're all long gone, thank god.

440
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well yeah, if you look at things like the

441
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: story of live journal alone, yeah, live journal. Live journal

442
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: went through a time, y'all. Like there, It kind of

443
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: reminds me of Tumbler too, Like these these sites that

444
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: got even if they weren't large communities, they were very

445
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: devoted communities and very and then and then stuff goes wrong,

446
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: and obviously it's like any invested community of stuff goes wrong,

447
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 1: you're going to have a lot of people upset about it.

448
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: That's true. That's that's putting it lightly. Both for live

449
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: journal and for Tumblr.

450
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got into those, and eventually, when I was

451
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: in college, I discovered online media, like video media, whether

452
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: that was flash media like homestar Runner, websites like that

453
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 2: that just posted funny flash videos or I also got

454
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 2: into a show called Pure Ownage, which was based in Toronto, Canada,

455
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 2: and it was a series of online episodes, real life

456
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 2: episodes about these these characters. These this series of like

457
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 2: I think three or four different people. It was three

458
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: guys and one girl, and they were all really into

459
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 2: gaming and I was into gaming two so I found

460
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 2: a lot of their inside jokes to be hilarious. Eventually

461
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: they did It was like probably my junior year of college,

462
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 2: but they did a live show in Toronto, and me

463
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: and my friend in Missouri, we were going to college

464
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,239
Speaker 2: in Missouri. We were like, let's drive to Toronto just

465
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: we randomly decided this, let's drive to Toronto just for

466
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: their live show. We won't rent a hotel or anything.

467
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 2: We're just going to drive up see the live show,

468
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: and then drive back home. And this is like a

469
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: sixteen hour drive or something. It's ridiculously long. But we

470
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 2: were in college. We were like, we could live off.

471
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 2: We'll get White Castle in Saint Louis while we're driving

472
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 2: up there, which is disgusting, don't recommend. It was really cross.

473
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 2: So we got White Castle because that was the thing

474
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 2: to do. You drive to Saint Louis and get White Castle.

475
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 2: And we drove on like Coca cola and coffee and

476
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 2: just drove the entirety overnight to Toronto. We saw this

477
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 2: live show, got to meet the actors that were in

478
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: this show, and then we drove all way back home.

479
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: Wow.

480
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: We ended up building this wonderful friendship with the guys

481
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 2: that were in this show in peer ownage, and we

482
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 2: developed this friendship over the course of a few years.

483
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 2: So we kept on traveling back up to Toronto to

484
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: hang out with them. We did little like a vacation

485
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: in the summertime one time, and that was my first

486
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 2: like introduction to live entertainment that you could post on

487
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 2: the internet, like live videos you could post on the Internet,

488
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 2: and it was fun and it was funny, and the

489
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: community was all nerds and into video games. So of

490
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: course I fell like deep into this rabbit hole of

491
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 2: like what else is on the Internet. And that was

492
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 2: when YouTube was created, right around the time I was

493
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: in college.

494
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: Wow yeah, see gosh again, so many parallels. First of all,

495
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: I had the Home the Brother's Chap who made Homestar.

496
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: I've had them on the show and Strong Bad actually

497
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: gave me a great outro for time.

498
00:26:59,000 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 2: I love them so much.

499
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: It was they were so funny. It was a ridiculous conversation, y'all.

500
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: If you if you want to just laugh at people

501
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: being silly, you can search the archives for when I

502
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: had The Brother's Chap on on on tech stuff. But yeah,

503
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: I uh, for me, it was Red, not regular media

504
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: that would come much later. Rooster Teeth. Rooster Teeth was

505
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: like that was those were the online creators that I

506
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: because I found Red Versus Blue when they were maybe

507
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: there were maybe three or four episodes into the very

508
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: first season. That was back when you had to download

509
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: the episode to watch it because there wasn't a streaming player.

510
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: I remember that. Yeah, yeah, But so I'm curious then,

511
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: so you're you discover the online media part. It's kind

512
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: of the world's coming together for the stuff that you're

513
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: already interested in. Uh. Was it kind of a natural

514
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 1: evolution for you to move into that space where you

515
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: started to work there or was there anything in between?

516
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 2: It was natural. I feel like the universe kind of

517
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: brought me to the right people at the right time.

518
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: Because I was about to graduate from college. I had

519
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: no idea exactly what kind of career I wanted to

520
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: go into because I had so many different interests. But

521
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: this YouTube thing was brand new. I didn't understand how

522
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 2: to upload your own videos. I didn't know how to

523
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 2: record them, how to edit, nothing like that. I was very,

524
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: very new to that whole idea. I understood like written

525
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 2: publications because I had the journalism classes, and I understood

526
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: being in theater, and I understood how to like do

527
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: technical computer stuff, but bringing it all together, it hadn't

528
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: quite clicked. So there was this one moment when me

529
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: and my friend again, we went in to see one

530
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: of these live Piana shows in Toronto, and I made

531
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: friends with a couple of people that worked on G

532
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: four tech TV way way back in the day, and

533
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: some of those folks just happened to be the crew

534
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: of Hack five five. They were there too, and they

535
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: were recording shows, and I had kind of made friends

536
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: with them online too because I had discovered their stuff

537
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: from pure ownage and I was like, ooh, hacker channel.

538
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: That sounds neat, that sounds really interesting, Like am I

539
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: interested in hacking?

540
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: Maybe?

541
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: So I started watching their stuff too, and I was like,

542
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: this is very advanced knowledge, Like I kind of want

543
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: to learn more. I ended up meeting them at one

544
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: of these shows in person, and I was like, hey,

545
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: let's be friends online. So eventually we became really good friends.

546
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: And right after college, I moved from Missouri to Virginia

547
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: and I moved into the hack house.

548
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: I took.

549
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,719
Speaker 2: I took a gamble. My mom was like, you're crazy,

550
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: but I decided to do it. I was like, no,

551
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: these are trustworthy people. They're really good guys. There's a

552
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: girl living there, like she's boyfriend or girlfriend with this

553
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: other guy, so like, we'll be fine, it's fine, everything

554
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: is fine, Mom, don't worry about me. So I moved

555
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: out to Virginia and that's when I started my very

556
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: early career where we were not getting paid much at

557
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: all whatsoever, and we all still had full time day jobs.

558
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: As a YouTuber. Wow, my earliest videos were so awkward.

559
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: I was so nervous because being in front of a

560
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: camera is completely different from being on a stage. When

561
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 2: you're presenting yourself on camera as yourself. It's very different

562
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: from learning lines and acting as a completely different character.

563
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: And that was something that was really hard for me

564
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: to kind of integrate into working with hack five. So

565
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: my very early segments, which are still online on their channel,

566
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: are so awkward. But I'm still proud of it because

567
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: I could go back and look at those and then

568
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: see where I am now and be like wow, like

569
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: I have completely changed over that series of time, and

570
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: you can see, you can see how I've matured as

571
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: a content creator in front of a camera, from this

572
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: little awkward I don't know what I'm doing girl to

573
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: what I'm doing now right. So hack five taught me

574
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: a ton about being in front of a camera, about

575
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: being a camera person and walking around and shooting on

576
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 2: the fly, like on the street or at a coffee

577
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: shop or in our own home. I learned about lighting

578
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: and audio and so many other things by just living

579
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: in this household and basically breathing content creation day in

580
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: and day out, even though we weren't making any money,

581
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: like it was just a passion. It was a passion project.

582
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: So we would come home from our full time day

583
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: jobs and be like, hey, let's have some dinner and

584
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: record a hack five video. Okay, let's do it.

585
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean people might not remember that in the

586
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: early days of YouTube, there was no way to monetize.

587
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: Contact was directly on the platform, right, Like you could

588
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: get a sponsorship if you were really big, I mean eventually,

589
00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: but even the YouTube ad partner program it was extremely

590
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: selective early on. Yes, and yeah, it was very hard

591
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: to be considered for that in the early days. And

592
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: there were also the restrictions on video length, like for

593
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: the longest time, you couldn't upload anything longer than ten minutes,

594
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: which is why, like I mentioned Red Letter Media accidentally earlier,

595
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: but like I remember, the first thing I ever saw

596
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: them post was the infamous mister Plankett review of Star

597
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: Wars Episode one, the Phantom Menace, and I think it's

598
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: nine ten minute long videos because they couldn't at the time,

599
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: they couldn't upload it as one thing. Yeah, I think

600
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: now it's same now.

601
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, tack five, Like, we couldn't upload really long videos.

602
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: We were still recording to tape too, so we had

603
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: to digitize tapes and then put them on the internet.

604
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: And it was so complicated, it was so so much work.

605
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: Like kids these days they have no idea how hard

606
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: it was to upload videos to the internet when you're

607
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: recording on like old cassette tapes.

608
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: Yes, hard, we didn't. Like these days, you can be

609
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: you can be a good, a great content creator just

610
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: using like a smartphone and maybe a separate microphone. Yeah,

611
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: and that's and then some some decent lighting and then

612
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: that's all you need. But back in the day, it

613
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: was recording to one medium and then digitizing it so

614
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: that you could you could then spend the incredibly long

615
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: time it takes to upload that digital content to whatever

616
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: platform that's hosting it. Yeah, because like we're talking about

617
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: a time where digital cameras were pretty limited, right, Like,

618
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: like you wouldn't typically have a smart card that could

619
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: hold enough, especially if you wanted to record at a

620
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: high enough resolution. You weren't going to get very much

621
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: content on a on a single smart card. So also,

622
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating you're talking about a time where

623
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: these very small groups of content creators essentially have to

624
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 1: learn everything because you don't have the budget to have

625
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: necessarily a dedicated camera crew or a dedicated lighting crew. Yeah,

626
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: like everybody has to learn how all of it works

627
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: to be able to chip in and help out.

628
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean all of us. We were not paid

629
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: when we started doing this work, so this was completely

630
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 2: a passion project. And I think that really comes across

631
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: with a lot of our earlier videos, like there's no

632
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: way I would have put that stuff online if I

633
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: didn't feel comfortable with it because I was so awkward

634
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: and so new to it. But even just delving into

635
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: new information like hacking and DIY and being able to

636
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: modify your own computers and understanding programming and code and

637
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: all those interesting little things that we learned on Hack five,

638
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: and then also going behind the camera and wanting to learn, Like, hey,

639
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: to our camera guy who never wanted to be on camera,

640
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 2: I was like, how do you do the cameras? Like

641
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: how do you set up the lighting? I wanted to

642
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: learn everything that was involved because I found it so interesting.

643
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: I'd always been on stage for theater and like doing

644
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: choir and stuff. So being able to go kind of

645
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: behind the set and be able to understand how it

646
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: was all put together before I ended up there in

647
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: front of the camera was so interesting to me. I

648
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 2: just wanted to learn everything I could.

649
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, like, if you ever want to see

650
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: someone who's really dialed in to what they're doing that

651
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: ties into performance, watch any videos that show like a

652
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: stage manager, particularly if you're talking like professional theater level

653
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 1: stage managers, and see them at a control board and

654
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: also calling out cues to the other crews in the

655
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: theatrical department. Because like, I watched that and I'm just like,

656
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: I can't even like I know that your job is

657
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: like you have to be hyper focused for about three

658
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: hours for the duration of this show, but like it's

659
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: it's it's so intense. Learning all that, to me is

660
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: also fascinating. I love that part of your drive is

661
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 1: literally you love to learn, and that's kind of what

662
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: fuels into everything else. So I assume then that we

663
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: get to a time where, like it starts off as

664
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: a passion project and sometimes it's hard to put your

665
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: finger on these sort of things, but at some point

666
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: or another, as Tibolt decides to chime in on our conversation.

667
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: You know, Hack five starts to actually make some money.

668
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: How did things change at that point?

669
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was around the time that we met,

670
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 2: because that was around the time period when I started

671
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: going to cees and started going to conventions, mostly to

672
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: get the word out about Hack five, but also because

673
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 2: we really wanted to get on board with a network.

674
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: So we ended up going to some live show in

675
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 2: New York. I think it was like Live Dignation.

676
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: I want to say, wow, wow, that that just gave

677
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: me like all the flashbacks go ahead.

678
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: So pre pre us signing on board with a network,

679
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: we went to a live show of Dignation and we

680
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: met the CEO of Revision three, which was a multi

681
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: channel network on YouTube, so they were in charge of

682
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 2: like selling ads against all these different shows, and we

683
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: talked to the CEO. We were like, we would love

684
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: to bring our show on board with your network, and

685
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 2: he agreed, so we signed a contract with them, and

686
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: that was our first introduction to this is how you

687
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 2: make money on YouTube, because this was still the early

688
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: days when ad revenue was very hit or miss when

689
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: it came to, you know, having commercials on your videos.

690
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: So we had to sign on board with a network

691
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 2: in order to bring in sponsorships so that we could

692
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 2: get our name out there. We could get connected with

693
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: different sponsors who were working with creators at the time,

694
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: and I think back in the day we were still

695
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: called vloggers or video bloggers. I don't remember.

696
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think either would be that or video blogger, blogger, Yeah,

697
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,479
Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense.

698
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was video blogger. So we did

699
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: end up signing on board with them. We spent a

700
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: couple of years in Virginia just building up our repertoire

701
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: of videos, connecting with other content creators who were on

702
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: the same network as us. We started doing a little

703
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 2: bit more in terms of like collaborations and going to

704
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: events and doing interviews stuff like that, and we also

705
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: started bringing in more sponsors. So about two years into

706
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,479
Speaker 2: working with Hack five, I was finally able to leave

707
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,959
Speaker 2: my day job and go full time with Hack five.

708
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 2: So Hack five ended up getting a really good contract

709
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: and all of us different creators who were working with

710
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 2: that channel, we were able to move eventually to San Francisco, California,

711
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 2: which was where Revision three was located. So we really

712
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: wanted to get you little Hines out to San Francisco

713
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 2: so that we could start working in person more with

714
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 2: other content creators. And I'd also opened up a ton

715
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 2: of opportunities, like at that point. Over the course of

716
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: like the early twenty tens, I started working with all

717
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 2: the different channels. On Revision three. There were a bunch

718
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 2: of different shows on that channel, like tech Zilla, tech

719
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 2: Buffalo I think was one of them, Dignation of course.

720
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: There were a bunch of different shows, totally rad show

721
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: and I was able to, you know, get introduced to

722
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: a bunch of these different channels and sometimes come on

723
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 2: as a guest host or sometimes do little one off

724
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 2: interviews or what have you. What we do here.

725
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: That was cool because you know, at the time, I

726
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: mean I've often said I've worked at the same job

727
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: for coming up on eighteen years, but the job company

728
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: has changed like five or six times. But at that

729
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: time it was how Stuff Works, and like the Vision three,

730
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works was also part of the Discovery Digital.

731
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,959
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, we were both part of the Yeah.

732
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: So Revision three did get purchased by Discovery and it

733
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 2: turned into Discovery Digital Networks, and I think there was

734
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: some name they changed the name like three different times

735
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 2: while I was there.

736
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: Yes, it was on there, Yeah, because because how Stuff

737
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: Works was creating how Stuff Works videos. Then at one

738
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: point we were creating test Tube videos. And I was

739
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: so jealous of your team and the other teams out

740
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: there in San Francisco because you could collaborate and you

741
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: could have this kind of melting pod of ideas. And

742
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: we were in Atlanta, and you know, great people, fantastic coworkers,

743
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 1: the best I've ever had the pleasure to work with.

744
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: But we didn't have the collaborative opportunities because we were

745
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: on the other coast, and so it's really rare.

746
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: And now I'm in the same position as you now

747
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: because I live in Denver, and other than myself and

748
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 2: maybe two other tech content creators, there is nobody else

749
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: here in Denver. So I don't get those collaborative opportunities

750
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: anymore like I did in San Francisco. But that was

751
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 2: a choice I had to make.

752
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: Hey all, it's Jonathan from the Future. You know what

753
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: this means. Yep. We're going to take another quick break

754
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: and then we'll have the conclusion of my interview with

755
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: Shannon Morse. Fascinating though that your journey and my journey

756
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: have so many common points in them. I'm very curious.

757
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 1: I have been somewhat critical of the Discovery years because

758
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: I felt that I felt that a lot of the

759
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: quote unquote strategy Discovery had was let's acquire existing content

760
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: creators and use them to artificially build out a digital

761
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: domain for Discovery and then slowly tried to transform them

762
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: into something they're not. Yeah, I don't know to what

763
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: extent that happened for you guys. I know that we

764
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: started noticing it, particularly as we were heading toward the

765
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: end of that relationship.

766
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: I did notice that as Hack five gained notoriety in

767
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: the tech content creator space and especially like the hacker

768
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: and cybersecurity space, our channel grew and it felt like

769
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: we had there was less interest in like selling sponsors

770
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: against our channel as opposed to just using it to

771
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: grow a portfolio, which is very similar. I would say.

772
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 2: I also noticed that I started getting invitations to be

773
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: a guest host on other shows, but we never saw

774
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 2: anybody be invited to be on Hack five or anything.

775
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: It was it almost felt like we were a little

776
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,919
Speaker 2: bit ignored the larger that we got, and maybe it's

777
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 2: because they were having trouble selling ads or something. I

778
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 2: have no idea. I really don't like, I have no

779
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: idea why, but it did feel like we were a

780
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: little ignored. So eventually we decided to cut ties, so

781
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: we weren't with DDN anymore. And that was a wonderful

782
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: turning point for me because I had more opportunities just

783
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 2: as a content creator to not only work with Hack five,

784
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: which was like the best job I could have gotten into,

785
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: but I also started working with other shows too, Like

786
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 2: I was doing who was I working with way back

787
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: in the day Alien where I want to say I

788
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,720
Speaker 2: was working with them Sony. I started working with Signal

789
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: by Sony for a while, and I started developing shows

790
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 2: for twit. I was working at twit for a little

791
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: while up in Pataluma, California. So I did that for

792
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: like two years, and all of those ended up being

793
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: really good opportunities because I was growing my own portfolio.

794
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 2: It almost felt like in the back of my mind

795
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: and maybe it was just like a gut feeling where

796
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I feel like this multi channel

797
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 2: network is not going to last forever. We're going to

798
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 2: have to figure out how to sell our own ads.

799
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: We're going to have to figure out how to hire

800
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 2: our own people and do our own hosting and get

801
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 2: to the events that we need to get to and

802
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 2: all that stuff on our own. We need that independence.

803
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 2: And I was learning that independence just kind of naturally

804
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: because I had that gut feeling, and my gut feeling

805
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: was right. Eventually, we didn't have that MCN anymore.

806
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no Discovery even before we could see the

807
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: writing on the wall because different channel were getting shut

808
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: down or we're migrating away from the network. Yeah, And

809
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: to your point, like, one of the benefits of being

810
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: part of that network is that you have a whole

811
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: team dedicated to things like sales and marketing so that

812
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: you don't have to stress about it so much and

813
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: they take care of things. But then the downside of

814
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: that is like, if a relationship starts to go sour,

815
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: you got to you have to take on all those responsibilities,

816
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: or you've got to find someone else who will do

817
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,439
Speaker 1: it for you. Yeah, is for sure pretty tough.

818
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: And I feel like none of it well from my perspective,

819
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: I never felt like anything went sour, went bad. It

820
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: was just like things were changing, and we felt that

821
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: change happening.

822
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think.

823
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 2: It was just the industry as a whole at that point.

824
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: A lot of content creators were finding that you have

825
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 2: more opportunities if you're independent rather than being with an

826
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 2: MCN and we did figure that out. Eventually, We figured out, like,

827
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: we can make you know, full time incomes if we

828
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: are independent, and we really had to strive for that.

829
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was all so an interesting time because that's

830
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: around the same time that the infamous pivot to video

831
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: move was going on in like established media companies, where

832
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: where people who had been dedicated to writing you know,

833
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: you know, text based content for the web were being

834
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: pushed to create video because one platforms like Facebook were

835
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: We're promoting video over text based content. Briefly, as it

836
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 1: turns out, that was a rug pull situation. Yeah. Yeah,

837
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: we had like an entire editorial group essentially laid off,

838
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: and the people who were left behind were all folks

839
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: who were like in the podcasting side and the video side,

840
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: and that was kind of an eye opener over at

841
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: House Stuff Works. Yeah, you were also mentioning the fact

842
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: that it was easy to get on other shows and

843
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: hard to get people on your show. In my case,

844
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: it was the other way around, because I was given

845
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: essentially full creative control of tech stuff, which was nice,

846
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 1: but getting permission for me to be on someone else's

847
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: show was a nightmare. And our mutual friend Tom Merritt,

848
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: yeah to tell you that it was harder for him

849
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: to get me on his tech news show than it

850
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 1: was to get the Chief Information Officer for the United

851
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: States of America.

852
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: What Oh my god.

853
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: Yes, he had to jump through more hoops to get

854
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: and I said, Tom, I'm not worth it, man, just

855
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: give up, and I ever know we're going to have

856
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: you on the show.

857
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 2: I remember that early show because that was one of

858
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: the first guest hosting opportunities I had. Is when I

859
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 2: was on one of his tech shows way back in

860
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 2: the day. And it was easy for him because under

861
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: our contract with Revision three, we were still independent creators,

862
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: so we were allowed to take on whatever guest hosting

863
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 2: we wanted, So it was easy for me to go

864
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 2: on like Techzilla and do a show with Veronica and

865
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: Patrick Norton, or go on tom Merritt's show back in

866
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 2: the day, whoever it might have been. Eventually in twenty fourteen,

867
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: I remember a big turning point was when I went

868
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: on my honeymoon and Twit canceled my job position that

869
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: I had with them and tech which show was it.

870
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 2: I was on Texxilla as a host. Eventually they took

871
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 2: me on as a full time host for Texxilla and

872
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: they were canceling Techzilla. I think just because like one

873
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: thing a lot of channels learned over time was that

874
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: internal shows where you have a producer, cameraman, editor, blah

875
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: blah blahlahlah blah blah, they're very expensive to produce, and

876
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: if you don't bring in enough on advertising, then those

877
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 2: shows end up being very costly. So they canceled a

878
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: lot of internal shows and Techzillo's one of those. So

879
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 2: I didn't have Texxilla anymore. I didn't have that job

880
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: at twit, and I was panicking because I had just

881
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 2: gotten married and marriage is expensive. So it was around

882
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 2: that time that I became more independent as a tent

883
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: creators started a show with Patrick Norton called tech Thing,

884
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: and we did that show as well as Hack five.

885
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 2: I was still doing Hack five pretty much every single week.

886
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: I was doing like four or five shows per week

887
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 2: for those two different channels, and that was a lot

888
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: of work and we had to understand how to do

889
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 2: crowdfunding on Patreon, so we brought on board membership style

890
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: Patreon memberships, so people could sign on, donate a few

891
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: bucks a months, and they could, you know, back our

892
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 2: show basically, so we didn't have to have a sponsor

893
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 2: on every single episode, which was great as a new

894
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 2: channel when you're starting to develop and starting to mature

895
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 2: that channel as something that's brand new that a lot

896
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 2: of networks, brands sponsors don't necessarily have familiarity with yet

897
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 2: that is one way to get those shows off the ground.

898
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 2: So I was doing that for a few years.

899
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 1: Fascinating, Like, it's blowing my mind that you're you became

900
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: acquainted with and used the major forms of funding content

901
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: creation online, like everything from advertising to sponsorship deals to

902
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 1: branded content to count funding. Yeah. Yeah, I mean again,

903
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: it's a hustle. Like when I talk to people who

904
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: have done the more independent approach, I've always had the like,

905
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: I have to face it, I've had the luxury of

906
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: working for a big company. The company kept changing, but

907
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: I kept working for big companies so I never had

908
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: to hustle like that. And whenever I talked to people

909
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: like you or to Veronica, Veronica Belmont, or you know

910
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 1: folks who have had to do that independent like figure

911
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: it out approach. I've always been impressed and wondered, where

912
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: the heck you find your energy to be able to

913
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: do all the things you have.

914
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: To do what you do. That energy was lots of caffeine,

915
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 2: Lots and lots of caffeine, lots of sugar. It was

916
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: to it was a lot of It was like just

917
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 2: searching for health and understanding how to stay healthy while

918
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 2: we were doing so much work, while we were traveling

919
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: to conventions, while we were doing fan meetups, like everything

920
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 2: involved with being a content creator, it's hard work and

921
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 2: it definitely is grind for sure, especially if you're trying

922
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 2: to start something new and get it off the ground.

923
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 2: And I've done that over and over and over in

924
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 2: my industry. As the industry has changed over the past

925
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 2: like fifteen years, I've had to kind of pick up

926
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 2: the pieces and start fresh. Whether that's because a network

927
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 2: has canceled my show, or a different host has to

928
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 2: come on board, or maybe I just want to start

929
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 2: something new, Like there's always a reason. So that's been

930
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 2: a big I feel like something that I've had to

931
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: repeat throughout the time that I've done this content creation

932
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 2: career is just understanding how to start new and understanding

933
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 2: how to divert fire income. And that's really tough.

934
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. It makes me think of like the challenges that

935
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: doctors face and that they constantly have to be learning

936
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: the latest in medicine, and that if you stop doing that,

937
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 1: you stop being a responsible and good doctor, right like

938
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: you're not. If you're not keeping up with the latest

939
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: in methods of treatment or whatever, then you start to

940
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: become a you know, kind of a drag on all

941
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: your patients. And similar to that, not that I'm saying

942
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: that content creators are as important as doctors, don't get

943
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 1: me wrong, but that as content creators, like you constantly

944
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: have to be learning how to maximize the return on

945
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: the investment of your of your effort and your tact

946
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: because other otherwise you're just going to be spinning your wheels.

947
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: I mean, discovery has always been a challenge in our industry,

948
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: and I think it just gets harder because, especially if

949
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: you are creating content for a specific platform, whether it's

950
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: YouTube or Twitch or whatever, if they change the way

951
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 1: algorithms recommend content, it could be that you're putting the

952
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: greatest stuff in the world out there, but no one, nobody,

953
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 1: It's not getting in front of anyone.

954
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I think that kind of brings us

955
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: to the next piece and kind of the final piece

956
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 2: of my story of learning how to be a content

957
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 2: creator when YouTube is brand new to now is. Eventually,

958
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,439
Speaker 2: after tech Thing and Hack five, and I was also

959
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: doing a show on Hack five called threat Wire, I

960
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 2: decided to move away from every show and every co

961
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 2: host that I had and move from San Francisco to Colorado.

962
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 2: And a big part of that was because I really

963
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 2: wanted to go Inde Pennant and I wanted to build

964
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 2: my own studio, and that was just not financially possible

965
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 2: in the San Francisco Bay area at the time because

966
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 2: for the space that I needed, which is like the

967
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 2: space that I'm currently working in now, I would have

968
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: to buy a house and on a content creator income

969
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, that was not going to happen.

970
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 1: Unless you're unless you're one of the co founders of PayPal,

971
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: you ain't buying the house in the Bay area. Uh,

972
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: no way, man.

973
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 2: And I was even looking like outside of San Francisco

974
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: City proper. I was looking at like the suburbs the Burbs,

975
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 2: and I just could not find anything that was big

976
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 2: enough for a studio, had the kind of like internet

977
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 2: connection that I would need, and also would give me

978
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 2: the ability to record in a quiet space, because like

979
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 2: the Bay Area is not a quiet place to live.

980
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 2: So I did end up moving out here to Colorado,

981
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 2: and I had to start really focusing down on what

982
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 2: shows I needed to do to grow my career and

983
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 2: what shows I needed to let go of, And unfortunately

984
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 2: I had to leave Tech Thing, I had to leave

985
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 2: Hack five, and I left threat Wire last year in

986
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, so that was my last like show

987
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: on another channel that I was doing, and I went

988
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 2: fully independent in twenty twenty four, once I had built

989
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 2: the studio and had this house that I could record in, Like,

990
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 2: I feel like every single little piece of my story

991
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: has kind of developed up to this point where I'm

992
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 2: now a fully independent content creator. I have my own channel,

993
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 2: I'm doing all my own work, from thumbnails and editing

994
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 2: and post and pre production, every single little bit, and

995
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 2: I'm getting to the point where I'm like, maybe I

996
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: need to start hiring people. So I hired an editor

997
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 2: that was huge, Oh totally like a huge, huge difference,

998
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 2: and I started reaching out to brands myself and selling

999
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 2: my own channel, And the last couple of years have

1000
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 2: been the first times ever in my life, in my

1001
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 2: career that I have sold a brand for the entirety

1002
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 2: of a year. So I have like a channel sponsor

1003
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 2: as opposed to just one that has been brought on

1004
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: for one video, And that astounds me that I've gotten

1005
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 2: to the point where I can do that now, and

1006
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 2: it makes me incredibly proud, and it makes me grateful

1007
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: that I've gotten to that point, and it makes me

1008
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: really happy to see what happens next, because obviously that

1009
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 2: story is not finished.

1010
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: It's it's clearly a testament to your talent, your dedication,

1011
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: your work ethic. Like you know, I would say congratulations,

1012
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 1: but I always feel congratulations feels like you're saying, Hey,

1013
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: the universe lined up for you, which is not the case.

1014
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 1: You freaking put in the work to make this happen.

1015
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: You clearly you planned everything out, You were very methodical

1016
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 1: in your approach, and so I'm just going to say

1017
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 1: great job, because like the hard work paid off. Thanks.

1018
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 2: Now, I just got to figure out the algorithm. Every

1019
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 2: couple of months. Yeah, that's always changing.

1020
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: That's always that's always tough. Like I remember, speaking back

1021
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: to rooster Teeth, I interviewed Bernie Burns, the one of

1022
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,439
Speaker 1: the co founders of rooster Teeth, a lifetime time ago,

1023
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: and one of the things we talked about that, you know,

1024
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: one of the lessons he really took home, which served

1025
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: rooster Teeth for a good long time. But even rooster

1026
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: Teeth ultimately kind of fell apart, like it dissolved I

1027
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 1: think last year. But but he was he always said

1028
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: the biggest lesson he had was if it's possible to

1029
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: have your own platform, host your stuff there, put it

1030
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: other places too, But you're always going to be beholden

1031
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: to whatever the other platforms out there do in order

1032
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: to serve content to users, because they're going to do

1033
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: whatever works best for the platform, not necessarily what works

1034
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: best for the people who are making the stuff that

1035
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: goes on the platform. But but that's hard too, because

1036
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: getting traffic to an owned and operated site is incredibly hard.

1037
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: Everyone just wants to go to the fire hoses that

1038
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: serve up all the content.

1039
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 2: So have changes like Google is using AI to create

1040
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: little summaries when you use Google search and that has

1041
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: really killed off a lot of blog viewership traffic for

1042
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: a lot of different websites. We also have a lot

1043
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: of websites, like journalistic websites are going towards paywalls now

1044
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 2: because they can't afford with the lower amount of viewership

1045
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 2: that they're getting. Because of that, they can't afford just

1046
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 2: using advertising like those basic, you know, banner advertisements on

1047
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 2: their channels anymore or on their websites anymore. And then

1048
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 2: we have TikTok, which might get banned in January at time,

1049
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 2: or recordings. So you have all these things that are

1050
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:46,919
Speaker 2: currently happening in the technological you know, ecosphere that are

1051
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: really affecting content creators, and this is going to be

1052
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 2: future change that we're going to have to consider.

1053
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't see this being like you were saying.

1054
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: I don't see this being something where we're going to

1055
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: arrive at a point where everyone's like, ah, this is

1056
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: where we are now and we will forever be here.

1057
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: I know it's always going to be. It's always going

1058
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: to be the case where you know, the people who

1059
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 1: succeed are the ones well, if people who are consistently

1060
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: successful will be the ones who are the most flexible. Yes, now,

1061
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: there will be people who are successful on one platform,

1062
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: but when that platform changes, their success may waiver or

1063
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: even just go away. So yeah, I think the lessons

1064
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: you've learned have served you very well so far. But

1065
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: I think they're also the ones that any content creator

1066
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: really needs to take to heart if they want to

1067
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 1: be successful in that space moving forward.

1068
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the reasons why I've been

1069
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 2: able to be successful, like I would say, mildly successful,

1070
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 2: Like none of my channels have gone viral. You know,

1071
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: I don't own a fancy car or anything like that.

1072
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 2: Like I'm quite modest when it comes to that kind

1073
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 2: of stuff. But if I compared this to the previous

1074
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 2: shows that I worked on, a lot of them used

1075
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 2: like classic G four television style productions, like really long

1076
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 2: thirty minute videos to post those They still were posting

1077
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 2: those kind of videos on YouTube, and a lot of

1078
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 2: those shows did not want to change over time. So

1079
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 2: you saw them fail or you saw them end up

1080
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 2: getting canceled or sunset or just just I don't know,

1081
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 2: ghost the internet.

1082
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: So fizzle out.

1083
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would fizzle out. And I look back at

1084
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,919
Speaker 2: that and I think about how much time I put

1085
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 2: into learning how the algorithm worked and learning what was

1086
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 2: changing on these different platforms, and I always tried to

1087
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 2: integrate that into my shows. And if somebody who I

1088
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 2: was working with, whether it was a channel or a network,

1089
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 2: told me no, I was more inclined to start my

1090
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 2: own channel so that I could make those changes happen.

1091
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the reasons why I've

1092
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 2: been able to grow my channel on my own is

1093
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 2: because I've been accepting of those changes, and I've always

1094
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 2: taken those to heart and said, Okay, well let's try this.

1095
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 2: Let's experiment. An experimentation when it comes to being a

1096
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 2: content creator, because this is still such a young career

1097
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 2: path is extremely important.

1098
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: Well, Shannon, I think it's just a matter of time

1099
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: before you hit the stratospheric level of success and next

1100
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: thing I know, I'm going to be on a food

1101
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: delivery app ordering a Snubsburger because you're going to be

1102
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: like the new mister Beast.

1103
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 2: Given that, given that I previously had a major in restaurant,

1104
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 2: restaurant and hospitality administration, I can promise you that it

1105
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 2: will be safe and sanitary whenever you do purchase those items.

1106
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 2: And I will run that business quite well and efficiently.

1107
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: It won't it won't be like, Hey, it turns out

1108
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: that there's one physical location and all the other ones

1109
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: are run out of some guy's closet. Yeah, I am

1110
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: pleased to know that. I mean, honestly, you know, anytime

1111
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: I avoid food poisoning is a day I think. Well, Shannon,

1112
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: first of all, thank you so much for being such

1113
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: an incredible friend and supporter from the first day I

1114
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: met you, like you didn't know me from anybody, and

1115
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: like I know, I can get especially when I'm in

1116
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: a situation where I don't really know a lot of people.

1117
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: As extroverted as I am, I can get kind of

1118
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 1: shut down if it's that overwhelming, like it's the es

1119
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: And I know I can also become a little bit

1120
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: parasitic and that I'll just latch on to people who

1121
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: are friendly to me that I won't leave them. So

1122
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: the fact that you never complained I greatly appreciate because

1123
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: it was a huge comfort to me.

1124
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 2: You are sunle.

1125
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: Hey, That's what I'm cam for. I was. I was

1126
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: Barnacle number three in the community theater production of SpongeBob

1127
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: the Musical Oh My God, not true, Not true.

1128
01:02:54,640 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 2: You having friendships like yours has been crucial to me

1129
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 2: staying in this career path because it can be hard.

1130
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: You can get a lot of criticisms online. And having

1131
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 2: the friendships that you developed through this career and having

1132
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 2: people that understand what you go through is so important.

1133
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 2: So that's been really, really big for me.

1134
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 1: It's also wild to me that I don't know how

1135
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 1: it is in other areas of content creation, but in

1136
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: the tech space in general, like some of the most

1137
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: generous people I've ever had the pleasure to meet work

1138
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: in that space and have been incredibly welcoming. You know,

1139
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: people like you, people like Tom Merritt, people like Veronica,

1140
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: like just folks who were eager to share what they

1141
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 1: had learned to have you on to share perspectives like

1142
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: I never really expected that. Again, I felt so so

1143
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: isolated out in Atlanta that I didn't even know that

1144
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 1: was a thing. But whenever I reached out to anybody,

1145
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: they were always so kind and welcoming, which to me

1146
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 1: is very special. Like that's one of those things. It

1147
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 1: speaks back to the theater side, right, like if you

1148
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 1: are in a show, you have a show family, Yeah,

1149
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: and that show family is like the closest, tightest group

1150
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: of friends until the show's over and then it dissolves.

1151
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 2: It's so true.

1152
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, it's kind of like that, like the

1153
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: at least in the tech content creation space, the old

1154
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: schoolers anyway. I don't know about any of these young

1155
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 1: folks out there, but all the old schoolers they always

1156
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 1: dread so much.

1157
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 2: Trying to befriend these youngins today that are doing tech

1158
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 2: content creation is pretty hard.

1159
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to go through like agents and managers

1160
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: and stuff. It's super weird.

1161
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, who can I actually talk to you?

1162
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah? Is this a bot that you've hired to be

1163
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: like your representative in negotiations.

1164
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: I've made a few really good friends in the newer

1165
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 2: generation of tech content creation, and they have been They've

1166
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 2: also been crazy helpful because they have taught me things

1167
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 2: that I didn't know coming from my old school.

1168
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh no, it's really valuable. Like again, I don't

1169
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: wanna I don't want to be dismissive and to suggest

1170
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 1: that the people who have been through the trenches since

1171
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: the mid two thousands, they they're the ones who have

1172
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: it all figured out, because obviously every jo down comes

1173
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 1: with changes no, yeah, no, we don't know what we're

1174
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: doing now.

1175
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 2: I'm still trying to learn how TikTok works and it's

1176
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 2: about to go away.

1177
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: So like, yeah, yeah, I don't know how to get

1178
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: it to go all in on reels, I guess, but

1179
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 1: uh oh boy, yeah. Uh for those who for those

1180
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 1: who want to seek out your work, what's the best

1181
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: place for them to go? To?

1182
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 2: YouTube dot com slash Shannon Morris spelled just like my

1183
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 2: name is or you can find me on the new

1184
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 2: threads in Blue Sky. How exciting. This is the first

1185
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 2: time I've done a guest hosting where I can tell

1186
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 2: people that I'm on threads in Blue Sky and what's

1187
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 2: my name?

1188
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 1: On those?

1189
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it's just Shannon Moore, So you can

1190
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 2: find me if you just type in my name.

1191
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. If you can't find her, fine be because I'm

1192
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 1: following her so you'll see. Yes, yeah, each other too,

1193
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 1: we do, we do. Yeah, Like it's so nice to

1194
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 1: have a place that, uh, because I haven't been on

1195
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 1: I left X a couple of years ago because I

1196
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: don't want anybody anyone stealing your name. Yeah, I I

1197
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: was like, you can take my name. The only it's

1198
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,439
Speaker 1: not going to do you any good because there's this uh,

1199
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: this uh politician out in Texas named Jonathan Stickland who

1200
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: has done some done some things that I am one

1201
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 1: opposed to morally, ethically, philosophically, Like we could not be

1202
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 1: more different, and I would get hate messages meant for him,

1203
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you need to look at my bio

1204
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 1: because you'll realize I am not the guy you think

1205
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:54,959
Speaker 1: I am, because I'm like, I am so much more

1206
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: inclusive than this dude is. But like I'm like, yeah,

1207
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: good luck. If you want, if you want my old username,

1208
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 1: if you were if you've got a high tolerance for abuse,

1209
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: go for it. Because I I ejected, but yeah, I

1210
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 1: totally get the idea of protecting the brand. Like that

1211
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: makes sense. But since I'm getting out of the content

1212
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: creation game, I guess it's all It's all fine for

1213
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 1: that lucky you. We'll see, we'll see how I go.

1214
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: Maybe like in like six months, I'll think, what a

1215
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 1: huge mistake I got to launch a new show, and

1216
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:29,919
Speaker 1: it'll be.

1217
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 2: Oh, then I can invite you on to be a

1218
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 2: guest host on my channel.

1219
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I'd love that. I mean, I'm still gonna

1220
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: do content creation once in a while, but it's not

1221
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 1: I don't have plans for like a new show that

1222
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 1: I'll be launching anytime in the near future. It'll probably

1223
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: be things like the occasional guest spot or maybe a

1224
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: branded show that we have decided to do with a partner,

1225
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 1: something like that, but it would be like a limited

1226
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 1: run kind of show as opposed to on going. So

1227
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: my listeners are taking notes. I'm sure all about this.

1228
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: But Shannon, thank you again for coming on the show.

1229
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 1: It has been a pleasure and I learned so much

1230
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 1: about you and just for I love you.

1231
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 2: I love you too, man, You're awesome and I always

1232
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 2: really appreciate that we have a good friendship and we're

1233
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 2: able to do this stuff like.

1234
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: This me too. There's no better way to end this

1235
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 1: than just like that. So it's over now. By I

1236
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: hope y'all enjoyed that conversation I had with Shannon. She's

1237
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 1: always such a pleasure to chat with. She has incredible

1238
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: insight into tech, into content creation, into just how to

1239
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 1: be like a good person who can easily collaborate with others.

1240
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: Like I said, she's younger than I am, that I

1241
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: learned so many valuable lessons from her. If you are

1242
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 1: unfamiliar with her work, I highly recommend you go and

1243
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: check out her various stuff. She does reviews, she does

1244
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: deep dives. She's got a ton of content under her belt,

1245
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: incredibly accomplished, and like I said, just a nifty human being.

1246
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 1: She's just great. So check out her stuff and come

1247
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 1: back to listen to the next couple of episodes of

1248
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 1: text Stuff. We've got a few more before I hang

1249
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 1: up my spurs and go walking off into the sunset.

1250
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,840
Speaker 1: I look forward to chatting with you then, so as

1251
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 1: I like to end all of my episodes until whatever

1252
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,439
Speaker 1: I end up saying in the last one, I'll talk

1253
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:41,799
Speaker 1: to you again really soon. Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production.

1254
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1255
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.