Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast where
Speaker 1: we talk with some of the brightest minds working in media. Today.
Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. The two point seven billion
Speaker 1: dollars sail last week of Meredith Corporation's top shelf magazines
Speaker 1: like People and Entertainment Weekly was a reminder that for
Speaker 1: all its struggles, there's still a lot of life left
Speaker 1: in the publishing business. You don't need to tell our
Speaker 1: next guest that Pam drucker Man is chief revenue Officer
Speaker 1: of Conde Nast, where she oversees the global advertising business
Speaker 1: for blue chip brands like Vanity Fair Vogue in New Yorker.
Speaker 1: We talked about everything going on at the company, from
Speaker 1: how it plans to build on its live stream business
Speaker 1: after its success at the met Gala in September, to
Speaker 1: e commerce, paywalls, and a whole lot more to stick around.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Strictly Business, where we're talking with Pam
Speaker 1: drucker Man, chief revenue officer at Conde Nast, where she
Speaker 1: oversees the global advertising business. Thanks for joining me today, Pam,
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. As the US economy continues to
Speaker 1: shake off the effects of COVID. We're seeing a big
Speaker 1: rebound and ad spend, So how much publishing is participating
Speaker 1: in that. That's something I want to get your perspective on.
Speaker 1: There was a recent forecast from ad buying giant Magna
Speaker 1: estimating the newspaper and magazine business was flat in the
Speaker 1: first half of the year, versus obviously a very banged up.
Speaker 1: So how has Conde Nast been doing, how is its
Speaker 1: one been shaping up compared to Yeah, I mean we're
Speaker 1: having a great year, um, which is not something we
Speaker 1: anticipated in and all of us were kind of sitting
Speaker 1: at home in our holes, uh and trying to think
Speaker 1: about I remember doing the forecasting for uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't even know what's happening
Speaker 1: like next week. UM. Really hard to to guess what
Speaker 1: next year is gonna look like. And it's interesting even
Speaker 1: at that time, you know, all the futurist conversations or
Speaker 1: the magnas or the e marketers that we're trying to
Speaker 1: make estimates, that's like no one had any clue what
Speaker 1: was really going on. UM. But I will say that
Speaker 1: we've been pleasantly surprised. We're experiencing double digit growth this year,
Speaker 1: which is not something we anticipated. UM. And what do
Speaker 1: you attribute that to. What's going on that's driving this
Speaker 1: unexpected growth? Yeah, I mean, I think a couple of things.
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone realized that the economy would rebound
Speaker 1: as quickly as it did. So, like, consumers are spending,
Speaker 1: they're out of their houses, so let's just be honest,
Speaker 1: like that was a big indicator to marketers that was
Speaker 1: time to get back out there UM and start engaging
Speaker 1: with them in in in the ways that they had,
Speaker 1: but also in new ways, obviously with the growth of
Speaker 1: e commerce UM. And then I would say from our
Speaker 1: perspective or from you know, from where we sit, you know,
Speaker 1: we had one of the biggest silver linings for us
Speaker 1: in twenty was just unbelievable audience attention UM in terms
Speaker 1: of our content. So we experienced a lot of audience
Speaker 1: growth and we've been able to capitalize on that with
Speaker 1: advertisers this year we've never had I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: incredible the amount of inbound that we have UM in
Speaker 1: terms of you know, audience, in terms of growth, in
Speaker 1: terms of engagement, in terms of purchase. I think all
Speaker 1: of that is lining up well for advertisers. And then
Speaker 1: I'd say the third reason, for whatever it's worth, is
Speaker 1: this really big industry shift around UM, privacy and you know,
Speaker 1: audience targeting and some of the challenges for marketers in
Speaker 1: a in a cookie list world. UM, and the role
Speaker 1: that we play as you know, a contextual partner. So
Speaker 1: i'd say those are the three you know, probably main
Speaker 1: factors right now. And I'm curious how big a driver
Speaker 1: the digital add piece of this is. I mean, the
Speaker 1: central challenge of a business like yourself is that print
Speaker 1: core business or maybe was core business for so long.
Speaker 1: You've got to move past that. So how are you
Speaker 1: doing on that at I mean, that's our entire story.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've just had an unbelievable acceleration. Let's start
Speaker 1: with the focus in terms of innovation on our content
Speaker 1: on these new platforms. We now produce content on eight
Speaker 1: platforms worldwide. Um, we've crossed that threshold now in which
Speaker 1: you know, uh, almost three corter revenue is digital versus print.
Speaker 1: When you have less print headwinds at your face, it
Speaker 1: makes it a lot easier to be successful. So um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we're having an amazing I would say moment
Speaker 1: in time in terms of like this acceleration of digital
Speaker 1: content in terms of our influence in front of consumers.
Speaker 1: And I know you and I've talked about some of
Speaker 1: the success we've had even in some of these new
Speaker 1: places like live format UM for us in which correct
Speaker 1: in which we're engaging with consumers a new way, new
Speaker 1: ways that just gives us so many new ways to
Speaker 1: engage with advertisers. It just gives us so much more range.
Speaker 1: So the more in vative we are around digital content
Speaker 1: digital content strategies, the more range we have to provide
Speaker 1: the advertisers. And it's been a tremendous year. So what
Speaker 1: was this? How big a breakthrough was the live stream
Speaker 1: you did with Vogue at the Met Gala. I've seen
Speaker 1: the numbers, you know, astonishing number of live streams. Um,
Speaker 1: what was because but you've been at the Met Gala before?
Speaker 1: What was different this year? Why was it a breakthrough? Well?
Speaker 1: I mean I think, first of all, Um, people were
Speaker 1: excited that the Met was back, and so I think
Speaker 1: you definitely have this like fomo moment for consumers of
Speaker 1: like wow, Like you know, I think all of last
Speaker 1: year there was no live experiences are very few, if
Speaker 1: you will, Um, the MAT has been gaining traction for
Speaker 1: the for the past few years. UM, and you know,
Speaker 1: we kinda we took a test. You know. One of
Speaker 1: the other great things about twenty was just to have
Speaker 1: more time to really focus on our directed consumer strategy
Speaker 1: and just to think about you know, our own you know,
Speaker 1: our own I P and how and when we want
Speaker 1: to UM, how we want to connect with our consumer
Speaker 1: in these new places. And as it turns out, you know,
Speaker 1: for all the years that we've you know, been partnering
Speaker 1: with the MET, UM, we never owned any of the
Speaker 1: content UM in terms of the live format, and this
Speaker 1: was a year in which we were like, no, if
Speaker 1: this is the vogue met Gala, we want to own.
Speaker 1: We want to own the format, we want to own
Speaker 1: the relationship between the consumer and UM. You know, there
Speaker 1: was this was definitely a risk because you know, we're
Speaker 1: not a broadcast company. UM. But in a way that
Speaker 1: was a great thing because we were able to take
Speaker 1: a totally new and fresh approach to just a live
Speaker 1: experience in and of itself. UM. And we you know
Speaker 1: created almost like UM, you know, the met itself is exclusive,
Speaker 1: but we wanted to give our our audience, UM. You know,
Speaker 1: a real a real lens on how we see the
Speaker 1: Vogue met Gala through through you know, our creator's perspective.
Speaker 1: And it was tremendous for us. I mean we had,
Speaker 1: first of all, again I'll say this, like, we didn't
Speaker 1: expect to have this much growth, let alone this much attention.
Speaker 1: But like sixteen point five total live stream views, fifty
Speaker 1: four million total minutes watched. I mean that isn't that
Speaker 1: is an insane amount of success. I think what we're
Speaker 1: most proud of is that not only the people came
Speaker 1: to watch, but they stayed. Um. We had eleven global
Speaker 1: vogues and six US titles. UM. That actually that actually
Speaker 1: distributed the live stream. UM. But you know what, I
Speaker 1: also think it's just interesting because I think and I
Speaker 1: talked about this at the New Front last year, I
Speaker 1: think everyone is trying to figure out, like, what is
Speaker 1: the future of live? You know, how should we be
Speaker 1: thinking about it differently? UM? I think the concept that
Speaker 1: people are just sitting in their living room and not moving,
Speaker 1: um for four and a half hours is just not
Speaker 1: the right way to think about it. And so I
Speaker 1: think our strategy, UM, which has really been more of
Speaker 1: a social strategy around live is really what was so compelling,
Speaker 1: UM is almost when you make the broadcast comparison, as
Speaker 1: if you guys are thinking of yourselves almost more like
Speaker 1: E than we would have thought as traditionally Conde Nast. Well,
Speaker 1: it's ironic that you say that because he was the
Speaker 1: original UM team that it was actually uh, you know,
Speaker 1: providing that that live for that live format for consumers
Speaker 1: and so not that we're thinking the the irnea is like,
Speaker 1: we're not really thinking like anyone else. We're just trying
Speaker 1: to look at this from our own perspective, like, you know,
Speaker 1: what experience do we want to provide to our consumer?
Speaker 1: We have a totally different level of access just because
Speaker 1: it's the Vogue met Gala UM and so I think
Speaker 1: we were able to provide a totally different type of
Speaker 1: content experience number one. And then the format in which
Speaker 1: we did that on our own and operate in addition
Speaker 1: to our partner Twitter, I think just created a totally
Speaker 1: different experience. UM. And how does the monetization work here? Right?
Speaker 1: I forgive me, I'm not the biggest Anna Wintour fan.
Speaker 1: I didn't see it, but are there commercial breaks? I
Speaker 1: just want to understand how you make money off all
Speaker 1: these eyeballs. So a couple of things. So one is
Speaker 1: more of uh authentic integration strategy, So the way that
Speaker 1: we you know, interact with our consumer in all the
Speaker 1: ways that we create content around them. That's number one.
Speaker 1: Two definitely more of a you know, traditional CPM model
Speaker 1: where you can were actually like you know, inserting mid
Speaker 1: role and pre role like you would expect in any
Speaker 1: other bigger kind of digital video moment um. You know,
Speaker 1: for all intensive purposes, it's you know commercials, right, but um,
Speaker 1: you don't have to leave the you know, the commercial
Speaker 1: isn't taking over the experience and taking you away from
Speaker 1: the content is actually happening at the same time. Um.
Speaker 1: I also just think that like when we think about
Speaker 1: live experiences, people still think about it as like a
Speaker 1: TV experience, like literally the physical television. Um. And we
Speaker 1: just think about it as a content experience. And like
Speaker 1: how you view that content in mobile versus how you
Speaker 1: may want to watch it, you know, once you get
Speaker 1: home on your big screen is you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's so much more fluid. Um. And And the other
Speaker 1: thing I'll just add is that it's when when we
Speaker 1: think about live it isn't like a one way content
Speaker 1: experience where we're just like showing you something and you're
Speaker 1: receiving it. You know, when when you think about the
Speaker 1: way that we're you know, the mechanism in which we
Speaker 1: should we we shared our our content even with Twitter
Speaker 1: and on our own and operated or consumers telling us
Speaker 1: in real time, like what they're liking, what they're not,
Speaker 1: they're commenting, and so it's it's really a give and take.
Speaker 1: And I actually do think that's the that's the future
Speaker 1: of live experiences. It has to be more of a
Speaker 1: multidimensional relationship with the audience that's watching. So are we
Speaker 1: going to see you guys do this to other big
Speaker 1: events in the year, because if you guys repeat that, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, here's the here's the interesting thing. There's one
Speaker 1: other kind of p s A stat. I mean, we
Speaker 1: had more viewers of the Met Gala red carpet than
Speaker 1: ABC had for the Oscars last year. Um. And so
Speaker 1: first of all, what that should be telling you is
Speaker 1: that audiences want something different, right um. And that all
Speaker 1: should should tell you that we we kind of hit
Speaker 1: the nail on the head for this particular moment in
Speaker 1: time around the Met. We have another Met coming up
Speaker 1: in six months, which by the way, doesn't usually happen.
Speaker 1: We usually have one MET a year, first Monday in May,
Speaker 1: don't forget UM. So this was a unique moment in
Speaker 1: time that we had it in September. So we have
Speaker 1: another MET coming up, UM, and so you can you
Speaker 1: can be sure that you know, this is kind of
Speaker 1: like our new Super Bowl UM, and that starts now.
Speaker 1: So we had a ton of advertisers who were who
Speaker 1: partnered with us on this experience that are definitely UM
Speaker 1: kind of clamoring to be part of the next one.
Speaker 1: One would imagine why with that type of performance. Vanity
Speaker 1: Fair Red Carpet UM. You know, Vanity Fair Oscar Party
Speaker 1: is a big event that we've been hosting for the
Speaker 1: you know for several years now. We also had announced
Speaker 1: on the new front stage back in in May, uh
Speaker 1: that we would be launching a live format for the
Speaker 1: red Carpet experience as well. And so UM a lot
Speaker 1: of learnings from the MET and we will be applying
Speaker 1: many of those learnings to the Red Carpet experience for
Speaker 1: the oscars. So it will be really interesting to see
Speaker 1: how that all play that. But I'm excited and it
Speaker 1: sounds great. I mean we should point out sort of
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, with pan back for a second
Speaker 1: on the Conde Entertainment division and the video business that's
Speaker 1: been around for ten years. You're discussing one piece of
Speaker 1: it that I think is part of what has otherwise
Speaker 1: been known as a more short form strategy, all your
Speaker 1: brands putting out all sorts of interesting short form series.
Speaker 1: And then there's this whole other piece of it, which
Speaker 1: is licensing of movies and TV shows two players like Netflix.
Speaker 1: Uh So I'm just curious from I mean, certainly from
Speaker 1: your advertising perspective, it's all about the short form game
Speaker 1: and this live stream stuff. How valuable is that relative
Speaker 1: to the licensing business. I'm just trying to get a
Speaker 1: sense of the scale of what you've got going in video. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the way that I would look
Speaker 1: at it is and you know, we have a new
Speaker 1: president of Conyas Entertainment, Agnes Chew, who came over from Disney.
Speaker 1: She's awesome, um and I think that number one, you know,
Speaker 1: as as she's shared many times, is that our focus
Speaker 1: is to create a premium quality um to create premium
Speaker 1: quality content period and whether that is in film and television,
Speaker 1: or you know, through a partnership with Netflix, like we
Speaker 1: want to bring on the best of the best UM
Speaker 1: two engage with our audiences UM in ways that we think, uh,
Speaker 1: only we can. And we've had a lot of success
Speaker 1: there in film and television, and I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: Agnes brings a totally new and fresh um line of
Speaker 1: thinking to that. And that's kind of like the Halo
Speaker 1: and the magic and so it's it almost immediately, you know,
Speaker 1: lends itself to how we think about digital video or
Speaker 1: as you said, short form UM because we have this
Speaker 1: you know, the mechanism in which we're approaching film and television.
Speaker 1: And and I would compare, you know, I look at
Speaker 1: a company like who Lou right, and and they're kind
Speaker 1: of they're a company that kind of does all from
Speaker 1: a from from that perspective. You know, they're making movies now,
Speaker 1: they're making TV shows now, and you know, obviously it's
Speaker 1: a it's a different type of company because um of
Speaker 1: of the way that they think about format and the
Speaker 1: way that they produce their content. But it isn't in
Speaker 1: terms of just the the value prop in the content itself.
Speaker 1: And so for us, you know, kind of started in
Speaker 1: the reverse, we have a pretty robust kind of like
Speaker 1: digital video business. Now we also have like you know,
Speaker 1: brands that kind of bring this content to the consumer
Speaker 1: UM and there's a different relationship that I think some
Speaker 1: of our brands have with our consumers in that space
Speaker 1: that is is pretty divine. But yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: would just say that, like how do they kind of
Speaker 1: come together? As you know there there it's a different
Speaker 1: business model. Obviously, one is more a direct to consumer
Speaker 1: model and the other is more of a of an
Speaker 1: advertising model. But it starts with making the best possible
Speaker 1: content and and building it for the consumer UM and
Speaker 1: ultimately if consumers really like it, and there's an opportunity
Speaker 1: to provide an opportunity for advertisers. So you know, I
Speaker 1: think our digital video platform UM enables advertisers to participate,
Speaker 1: right and uh, you know film and television allows um,
Speaker 1: you know, consumers to enjoy and and ultimately I think
Speaker 1: it's it's a huge part of our future. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is when we think about the future of content,
Speaker 1: you know, site, sound and motion. You know, imagine people
Speaker 1: love to talk about Conde Nasa magazine company, but ultimately
Speaker 1: this is how the majority of our consumers are engaging
Speaker 1: with our content today, but we should point out that
Speaker 1: on the licensing side that that part of what Agnes
Speaker 1: choose running it's ideas that could be generated from magazine
Speaker 1: stories that turn into movies. I know, for instance, I
Speaker 1: think there's a movie coming to Netflix maybe later this year,
Speaker 1: Escaped from Spiderhead, which is based on an article that
Speaker 1: appeared in a Conde nas publication. So I guess you know.
Speaker 1: The thing is, though, when I look over the past
Speaker 1: ten years, I can't think of that many examples of
Speaker 1: Conde Nask material that has sort of broken out onto
Speaker 1: screens big and small as TV shows and films. Are
Speaker 1: you happy with the progress you got? There? Is Agnes,
Speaker 1: you know, accelerating this. I'm just curious to get a
Speaker 1: sense of progress. Yeah, I mean she definitely brings different chops.
Speaker 1: I mean, Agnes is she's a Disney plus. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: she's a baller. There's a reason why she's here, um am.
Speaker 1: I first of all, I'm super excited about our future
Speaker 1: and film and television. I think there's a huge opportunity
Speaker 1: there and I think we have the right person to
Speaker 1: make that happen. And I think, uh so that kind
Speaker 1: of you know speaks for itself. But we're we're we're building.
Speaker 1: We're in building mode, um, and I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think to your question about
Speaker 1: where some of our I P comes from, or when
Speaker 1: we think about like ideas for movies that may come
Speaker 1: from magazine articles. I think the way that we think
Speaker 1: about it now, and I've had this conversation with Anna
Speaker 1: several times is you know, we used to be a
Speaker 1: magazine company. So all of the stories that we wrote,
Speaker 1: like the format was physical media, it was magazines. Now
Speaker 1: the format is is um Our content doesn't come from
Speaker 1: magazines anymore. Like we create content and we decide like
Speaker 1: what format we think that content is going to make
Speaker 1: the most sense. Right. So, in many cases, you know,
Speaker 1: there is a physical media approach to it, but in
Speaker 1: other cases, a lot of our content is sitting in
Speaker 1: digital video that you wouldn't find in our magazines. If
Speaker 1: you think about the partnership we have with YouTube as
Speaker 1: an example, UM, you know, the content we create for
Speaker 1: Netflix is is not content you would find in any
Speaker 1: of the pages of our magazines. Right. So I think
Speaker 1: that the opportunity for us is that Listen, we have
Speaker 1: the most We are a creative company, and we're probably
Speaker 1: one of the most influential i P companies in the world.
Speaker 1: The majority of the years that we've been in business,
Speaker 1: we focus that influence and that creative precitions in magazines.
Speaker 1: But in the last five years we've extended that influence
Speaker 1: and that creativity and that talent to all of these
Speaker 1: new platforms. We produced content on eighty platforms worldwide. Now
Speaker 1: the majority of our audiences are digital. We have one
Speaker 1: billion I think it is digital views per month UM globally.
Speaker 1: You know, when you talk about the range of audience
Speaker 1: consumption digitally, but it's not like a competition, it's not like,
Speaker 1: well one as bad as one is good. It's just
Speaker 1: it's different. You know, print is a is a totally
Speaker 1: different experience, and so UM, I guess my point is
Speaker 1: when we think about i P and where it belongs,
Speaker 1: whether that's in a movie or you know, in some
Speaker 1: in some sort of like you know, in through a
Speaker 1: video format experience UM, or even if it's it's something
Speaker 1: we're producing for social you know, in partnership with Instagram,
Speaker 1: or maybe it's something that's gonna live on our own
Speaker 1: and operate. It starts with like what story do we
Speaker 1: want to tell and then where do we want to
Speaker 1: tell it? And then how do we want to monetize that?
Speaker 1: And and you know today we have the ability now
Speaker 1: to monetize that two ways, via the consumer and via
Speaker 1: the advertiser. We're talking to Pam drucker Man, Chief revenue
Speaker 1: Officer at Conde Nast, and we'll be right back in
Speaker 1: a moment. Welcome back, talking with Pam Drucker Man of
Speaker 1: Conde Nast about all things at the company. Another area
Speaker 1: that Conde Nast Entertainment is in that I would assume,
Speaker 1: with your role in the advertising side of the business,
Speaker 1: will be of increasing importance is podcasts. You just did
Speaker 1: a hire of Chris Bannon from Stitchard to oversee that business. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's something where it's not like you're starting from scratch.
Speaker 1: You guys are already in this game. What is sort
Speaker 1: of the next level you're trying to get at with
Speaker 1: this new hire. I mean, I think it says a lot,
Speaker 1: you know, I think Chris is highly reputable. Um, it's
Speaker 1: just like, I mean the amount of emails that I've received, like, oh,
Speaker 1: like you guys are really getting into audio. You guys
Speaker 1: hired Chris, it's like, Um, you know, I think he's uh,
Speaker 1: he's obviously a really talented guy. I mean, look, these
Speaker 1: are early days is for Condom. I mean we've we've
Speaker 1: we've been in the digital video space and even in
Speaker 1: the TV film space for much longer, and we've been
Speaker 1: in the you know, audio space, and we've we've we've,
Speaker 1: we've dabbled, we've had some success, UM, but I think
Speaker 1: we we recognize that again going back to what I
Speaker 1: was saying earlier, that you know, we have I that
Speaker 1: consumers want and audio is a way that consumers are
Speaker 1: spending time with content, and this is an area where
Speaker 1: we feel like we just have permission. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's a different format than bringing someone in with the
Speaker 1: expertise that I think can help UM take us to
Speaker 1: the next level there is UM is actually extremely encouraging
Speaker 1: and as a as a commercial revenue lead, I'm actually
Speaker 1: very excited about it. Okay, let's hit another part of
Speaker 1: the business, commerce where you guys are seeing more growth.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing, uh, the stores that are attached to every
Speaker 1: dot com associated with your brands. How meaningful is that business?
Speaker 1: I've I've never you know, bought a product on a
Speaker 1: on a publisher website. Um, but maybe I'm not seeing something. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean listen, if our CMO, dear Drew Finley, was here,
Speaker 1: she would say that, Um, you know, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit more complex than that. She's having a lot of
Speaker 1: success this year. I think our e commerce businesses up. Um.
Speaker 1: Now listen again. The beginning of the podcast, we were
Speaker 1: talking about consumer behavior changing and shifting and consumer spending
Speaker 1: more time online and buying online. And you know, affiliate
Speaker 1: has certainly been a big part of our strategy and
Speaker 1: that didn't just start like five minutes ago. You know,
Speaker 1: we have a really different you know, when I think
Speaker 1: about the role of Connie asked brands, and I think
Speaker 1: about Vogue, I think but g Q, I think about Wired,
Speaker 1: I think about a D You know, consumers come to
Speaker 1: us for curation. They they expect that we're going to
Speaker 1: help them kind of be a signal in the noise, right,
Speaker 1: and and we're kind of the partner that creates wantedness
Speaker 1: in demand. When I think about this as an omni
Speaker 1: media partner, I feel like that's the one area that
Speaker 1: is kind of hard to compete with. You know, how
Speaker 1: many other brands can motivate you to want to, you know,
Speaker 1: get on a plane and go stay in that hotel,
Speaker 1: or motivate you to want to go to that restaurant,
Speaker 1: or motivate you to you know by that um, you know,
Speaker 1: that beauty product. With that much authority, and so I
Speaker 1: think we have more permission to be honest with you
Speaker 1: to succeed in e commerce and probably any other competitor
Speaker 1: from an IP perspective, or I would say we have.
Speaker 1: We have a tremendous amount of UM. We have a
Speaker 1: lot of brand trust with the consumer already. I think
Speaker 1: the difference though is like, look, I think that the
Speaker 1: e commerce business of the past was you know, you
Speaker 1: create or if you're you know, if you're a publisher,
Speaker 1: you create content and you add an affiliate link, right,
Speaker 1: I think the future of e commerce is quite different.
Speaker 1: I think some of the stuff that Deirdre is doing
Speaker 1: is really really interesting and really really innovative. And that's
Speaker 1: thinking about content any commerce. At the same time, that's
Speaker 1: when you think about you know, we're kind of in
Speaker 1: the driver's seat, So how do you think about content
Speaker 1: in a way that like what what is what is
Speaker 1: a piece of content that should be viable versus a
Speaker 1: piece of content that shouldn't be When do consumers just
Speaker 1: want to lean back and enjoy and when do they
Speaker 1: actually want to buy right? And so just getting more
Speaker 1: sophisticated around that. This is a huge part of our strategy.
Speaker 1: Our CEO, Roger Lynch, has been very focused on our
Speaker 1: direct to consumer UM business, but not just that, really
Speaker 1: focused on like building, continuing to dimensionalize and build out
Speaker 1: the relationship between our brands and our consumers and e
Speaker 1: commerce is a place where I feel like we just
Speaker 1: have a lot of opportunity and we're seeing that this
Speaker 1: year with the with the progress that I already mentioned.
Speaker 1: Another kind of of commerce on site, of course, is
Speaker 1: the subscription business itself, where like a lot of publishing businesses,
Speaker 1: condeingas seems to have sort of a pendulum over the
Speaker 1: past year or so with putting things behind the paywall
Speaker 1: pulling them back. Um, where do things stand now? Is
Speaker 1: just does Roger have some sort of general philosophy at
Speaker 1: this point of what works in terms of paywall? Well,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think we've put things on the
Speaker 1: paywall and pulled them back. I think all of our
Speaker 1: paywall strategies so we have three brands behind a paywall
Speaker 1: right now, so the New Yorker, Vanity Fair and Wired
Speaker 1: UM and all of them have had a different you know,
Speaker 1: approach and test mechanism around the meter, right like you
Speaker 1: you have to kind of get to know your consumer
Speaker 1: and what they're willing to pay for and what they aren't.
Speaker 1: We've had a lot of success again this year, UM.
Speaker 1: I think we've you know, had double digit growth this year.
Speaker 1: I think we're up sixteen percent every year in total
Speaker 1: subscriptions UM. Again and not to not everything is you know, again,
Speaker 1: we only have three brands right now, so we're still
Speaker 1: learning and we're still gathering data, and you know, I
Speaker 1: think ultimately, UM, there are certain brands that consumers are
Speaker 1: gonna be willing to pay for and for whatever it's worth.
Speaker 1: I mean, we always had consumers have always paid for
Speaker 1: our content. You know, they bought our magazine is on
Speaker 1: the newstand, or they paid for a subscription. So like
Speaker 1: paying for content as content isn't a new like concept
Speaker 1: for consumers. I think it's really more about, UM, how
Speaker 1: if you think about the digital space, the consumer expectation
Speaker 1: and we all know we've talked about everyone loves to
Speaker 1: talk about the saturation of subscriptions and you know what
Speaker 1: are consumers how many more like you know a spot
Speaker 1: subscriptions are consumers willing to pay for? And there's definitely
Speaker 1: a bubble that's you know, either going to burst eventually
Speaker 1: or is already bursting somewhat. But we're we've had a
Speaker 1: lot of success with The New Yorker, and we're seeing
Speaker 1: you know, really encouraging results with with Vanity, Fair and
Speaker 1: Wired and certainly UM. You know, I think, uh, I
Speaker 1: will tell you as the advertising lead, it is a
Speaker 1: great conversation to have with our advertisers, right because when
Speaker 1: you have a brand that consumers are willing to pay
Speaker 1: for and by the way, willing to pay a premium
Speaker 1: for UM, I think that that is the type of
Speaker 1: audience that you should be you know, really focused on
Speaker 1: from an advertising But I'm a little surprised by that
Speaker 1: because I would have made the presumption that advertisers would
Speaker 1: push back on any sort of barrier or gating that
Speaker 1: keeps you from maximizing the number of eyeballs. But you're
Speaker 1: saying advertisers will like a smaller group that's willing to
Speaker 1: pay their more engaged. Yeah, I mean it's I don't
Speaker 1: think the goal I mean, listen, it depends on the advertiser.
Speaker 1: But like the goal isn't as many people as I
Speaker 1: possibly can. The goal is, you know, what can I
Speaker 1: get out of the people that I'm reaching? Return on
Speaker 1: investment ROAs people have to talk about that um, return
Speaker 1: on add spend. I think, I think, I think marketers
Speaker 1: are getting a lot more sophisticated. They're spending a lot
Speaker 1: more looking at things like e commerce right, looking at
Speaker 1: data like engagement, how much time or consumers spending with
Speaker 1: the content. UM. They're looking at environment as obviously a
Speaker 1: really big metric for them in terms of performance. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean they're looking at you know, the you know,
Speaker 1: are all consumers created equal? Probably not in terms of
Speaker 1: the amount of time I they're willing to spend with
Speaker 1: the piece of content or whether they're willing to pay
Speaker 1: for that piece of content. So gating of content is
Speaker 1: not the challenge for the marketer. It's the it's the
Speaker 1: challenge for the publisher because we have to figure out
Speaker 1: what the best balance is between you know, how much
Speaker 1: content we're gating UM so that you know, the subscriber
Speaker 1: is getting something extra special versus you know, what pieces
Speaker 1: of content. We're not gating UM, so that the advertiser
Speaker 1: has an opportunity to be a part of it. So
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we're getting that balance. UM, but
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be the same for all brands. By
Speaker 1: the way, there's not like a set formula yet for
Speaker 1: whatever it's worth, got it? You know, I'd be remiss
Speaker 1: and not asking about the culture at Conde Nast, which
Speaker 1: looked fairly rocky in controversies a teen Vogue and Bone
Speaker 1: Appetite gave the suggestion that the company had some real
Speaker 1: work to do to ensure that a diverse workplace where
Speaker 1: employees felt equally valued, regardless of ethnicity, or gender or anything.
Speaker 1: Do you feel the company has progressed and you're seeing
Speaker 1: signs you're in that culture? Yeah? I mean look, I
Speaker 1: mean we've we've learned a lot over the past year,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're still in the process of applying
Speaker 1: those learnings. You know, we we hired a global Chief
Speaker 1: Diversity Officer. UM. We have put a framework in place
Speaker 1: that was an obvious um that we didn't have prior
Speaker 1: to UM. I think that as an executive team, we're
Speaker 1: hyper focused on, you know, the culture and the community
Speaker 1: that we are building and that we're harnessing. Um. You know.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, look, we we obviously had a
Speaker 1: lot of work to do. We still have a lot
Speaker 1: of work to do. I would be remiss to say that,
Speaker 1: you know, we haven't made progress. But you know, this
Speaker 1: isn't something that is going to change overnight. Um. And
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone can can say that it's it's
Speaker 1: like an every day all day you know, it's not
Speaker 1: sometimes uh strategy, it has to be part of your
Speaker 1: end to end and and you know it's um, it's
Speaker 1: been I will say, you know, from from my perspective,
Speaker 1: I think as a company, when you think about the
Speaker 1: future as a as a culture curator, just you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of like what we do for the consumer. Um,
Speaker 1: it just put a real emphasis on the relationship we
Speaker 1: want to have with our employees at the same time.
Speaker 1: So no, we're not like actualized. And by the way,
Speaker 1: like I don't I don't, you know, I think we
Speaker 1: have a lot of work to do period um in
Speaker 1: the US, you know, and uh, clearly there's that was
Speaker 1: a long time coming. Um. But we're very focused on
Speaker 1: it and we're very committed to it. And you know
Speaker 1: more to come. Let's not forget of course, conte As
Speaker 1: is very much a global company, and so I was
Speaker 1: curious if you could give me sort of the overseas picture,
Speaker 1: how much it contributes to the overall revenue of the business.
Speaker 1: And it just seems like I'm reading and hearing a
Speaker 1: lot more about cooperation, global cooperation between what otherwise maybe
Speaker 1: years ago, we're completely separate operations that happened to have
Speaker 1: the same brand. So yeah, I mean, look, we were
Speaker 1: two separate companies. I mean, you know, Roger Lynch is
Speaker 1: our first global CEO, and some people don't know that. Um,
Speaker 1: we were an international company and we were a US company,
Speaker 1: and so this is the first global team on the
Speaker 1: executive level. You know, this is the first time we're
Speaker 1: operating as a global company. So that's number one, UM
Speaker 1: number two. You know, all of our countries contribute UM
Speaker 1: in different ways, UM too the overall you know, to
Speaker 1: our overall global revenue. But like I think what's been
Speaker 1: really interesting is, you know, someone who spent more time
Speaker 1: in our US market before I was the global revenue leaders,
Speaker 1: just seeing where um, where you know, there was obvious
Speaker 1: is obviously in all the ways that we were so
Speaker 1: different culturally UM. But what was really interesting was to
Speaker 1: see what our brands meant to our consumers in those locals,
Speaker 1: local markets, UM. And how similar of a relationship Vogue
Speaker 1: US had UM with its customer and consumer as you know,
Speaker 1: you know Vogue France has with its customer and consumer.
Speaker 1: And also just looking at a brand like g Q
Speaker 1: and just seeing the impact UM and the differences that
Speaker 1: that brand has in in the you know, in many
Speaker 1: of the international markets where it's it's versus you know,
Speaker 1: g Q in the US, And so I think there's
Speaker 1: definitely more of a global community feeling now there's an
Speaker 1: appreciation for like obviously our differences and not you know,
Speaker 1: not being global doesn't necessarily mean being the same. It
Speaker 1: just means having more visibility and transparency into like what
Speaker 1: we are as a global company and what we mean
Speaker 1: to our various consumers in our local markets, and even
Speaker 1: how we think about now building the business. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, what I think about our our strategy as
Speaker 1: a global content company, you know, what does the future
Speaker 1: of our content look like? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And and and and by the way, our number one
Speaker 1: job is to meet the consumer where they are and
Speaker 1: I actually think we're unique in the fact that we
Speaker 1: are now, as I said earlier, doing that across eight platforms,
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, thirty one markets. And that's
Speaker 1: significant to be able to say that that we're not
Speaker 1: just you know, influencing a consumer in the US, are
Speaker 1: influencing a consumer in China, that we're actually in all
Speaker 1: of these places. And so I think that actually gives
Speaker 1: us a UM. I think that allows us to really
Speaker 1: get behind initiatives like sustainability from a global perspective or
Speaker 1: D and I from a global perspective. UM. And that's
Speaker 1: a big part of I think our I don't know responsibility, UM.
Speaker 1: But now we have all these creatives that are connecting
Speaker 1: in ways that they just never had the ability to
Speaker 1: do before. UM. So it's been really I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's been really exciting. UH. It's definitively a big opportunity
Speaker 1: for our company. UM. It allows us to provide a
Speaker 1: lot more range to our global advertisers because you know,
Speaker 1: the the ability to run a global campaign with Connie
Speaker 1: Nast and six markets across multiple touchpoints UM. And that's
Speaker 1: just great to be able to provide that level of
Speaker 1: of range, you know, at a time when I don't
Speaker 1: know how many other companies can can do that in
Speaker 1: quite the same way. Well, speaking of other companies, we're
Speaker 1: having this conversation just a week or so after Barry
Speaker 1: Diller announced that he was going to acquire Narratives Magazine
Speaker 1: Group for two point seven billion. Curious to get your
Speaker 1: sense of, well, what does it mean to have another
Speaker 1: publisher out there with pretty massive scale out there to
Speaker 1: compete with I'm sure you're going to be fighting with
Speaker 1: them for ad dollars. You know, what does it say
Speaker 1: about the publishing marketplace in general? Well, I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I was having drinks for the friend last night and
Speaker 1: we were just talking about this. You know this this
Speaker 1: this like moment in time, um, which we were just
Speaker 1: talking about this creator's economy, right like unbelieva there's listen.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you know, like there's been so
Speaker 1: much focus over in the last five years on the platforms,
Speaker 1: right um, and and there still is to a certain extent,
Speaker 1: but like I think they're just more and from a
Speaker 1: platform perspective, there's just more appreciation in terms of what's
Speaker 1: powering those platforms, whether that's user generated content or but
Speaker 1: the commonality is content and creativity UM. And I think
Speaker 1: there's you know, if you think about you know, publishing companies, UM,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of scarcity in terms of like what
Speaker 1: that creator's economy looks like, and and that provides that
Speaker 1: that just gives the value back to the creative or
Speaker 1: the power in so many ways back to the the
Speaker 1: the creatives itself, you know, and because those that's really
Speaker 1: who's engaging with the consumer and growing audiences at the
Speaker 1: end of the day. So look, I think this is
Speaker 1: a really interesting moment UM. I think there's a renaissance
Speaker 1: happening when it comes to content creation UM and how
Speaker 1: that now connects to UM digital capabilities. When you think
Speaker 1: about what's going on with this this merger, if you will,
Speaker 1: of this acquisition, if you will, Meredith Merediths brands UM,
Speaker 1: and the relationship that Meredith's brands have with its consumer
Speaker 1: now combined with the scale and digital capabilities of dot Dash.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's that. I mean you said the
Speaker 1: word before. I mean that's a that's you know, gonna
Speaker 1: make them quite competitive. UM. But I like that. I
Speaker 1: like that, you know, content companies are innovating, and that's
Speaker 1: our job is to to find new and innovative ways
Speaker 1: to engage with the consumer and giving and give, you know,
Speaker 1: and the fact that that those those worlds are coming
Speaker 1: together is great for the marketer, by the way, because
Speaker 1: there was a moment in time where they had to
Speaker 1: pick between the platform and the publisher or you know,
Speaker 1: working with you know, just like wanting to have all
Speaker 1: these data capabilities, but like not really have any substance
Speaker 1: to connect to those data capabilities. So I think this
Speaker 1: is really great for the consumer, by the way, and
Speaker 1: really great for the advertiser. Um. And I think it's
Speaker 1: it's gonna make us all better. Um. And we're you know,
Speaker 1: we're also I think in a really unique position to
Speaker 1: have all three. I mean, this is you know, we
Speaker 1: just talked about this before, like our focus on e
Speaker 1: commerce and our focus on how we're dimensionalizing the relationship
Speaker 1: we have with our brands with our consumer through digital subscriptions,
Speaker 1: and how we're then productizing all of that back to
Speaker 1: the advertiser. I think just puts us in a unique
Speaker 1: space that I think makes us highly competitive. And it'll
Speaker 1: be really interesting to see how people define, you know,
Speaker 1: what does the sandbox look like, you know in three years,
Speaker 1: right who are the big players um in terms of
Speaker 1: the advertising market, and uh you know, I think this
Speaker 1: is a really interesting, you know acquisition for all of
Speaker 1: those reasons. Well, I am sure will not be the
Speaker 1: last in the space. Uh So we'll have to see
Speaker 1: how continues to unfold. But Pam, I thank you for
Speaker 1: taking the time out today to walk me through all
Speaker 1: things Conde Nast and good luck for the rest of
Speaker 1: the year. Thank you so much, really appreciate you having
Speaker 1: me on. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.
Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation
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