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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of IHEARTRADI.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Alexis codename dot Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 3: want you to know. It's an exciting time of the

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Speaker 3: week for us here at the show because this is

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Speaker 3: where we have a cavalcade of our favorite people and entities. You,

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Speaker 3: our fellow conspiracy realist, you have written to us, so

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Speaker 3: you have communicated with us through ways telephonic and arcane,

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Speaker 3: and we are here to share your stories with the class.

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Speaker 2: I could say, why not, isn't telephonic communication arcane?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 3: You know, I was thinking about that telex communication would

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Speaker 3: be arcane, right. I recently saw a payphone out in

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Speaker 3: the wild. We don't have to get into the details,

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Speaker 3: and I almost called our number one eight three three

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Speaker 3: std WYTK to leave a little little Easter egg voicemail.

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Speaker 3: But that is not that's not going to come up today.

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Speaker 3: I think what we will learn about are the ways

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Speaker 3: in which big, powerful companies are hoovering up your personal information.

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Speaker 3: It is much more insidious than even we thought until

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Speaker 3: the recent news came out. We are going to learn

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Speaker 3: about leo blastoma. And before we do any of that,

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Speaker 3: we're going to return to something we tease last week,

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Speaker 3: the idea of imagination. What is the line between imagination

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Speaker 3: and hallucination? What is the line between human intelligence and

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Speaker 3: created intelligence?

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Speaker 4: I really like that set up, Ben, and I never

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Speaker 4: really quite thought about it that way. But imagination is

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Speaker 4: somehow a combination of like intelligence and hallucination. Right, Like,

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Speaker 4: you are sort of conjuring things, and I mean you're

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Speaker 4: using your intellect to do that. You're basing it around

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Speaker 4: things that you know from the real world, deductions that

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Speaker 4: you've made, you know, connections that you've made, and things

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Speaker 4: that have quote unquote meaning. But then the gaps kind

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Speaker 4: of get filled in by your brain. And one could

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Speaker 4: argue that it's sort of doing some of that work

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Speaker 4: for you. It's creating things you know that weren't previously there,

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Speaker 4: which is kind of what hallucinations are typically hallucinations get

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Speaker 4: referred to in terms of things that are completely unwanted. Well,

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Speaker 4: I mean tell us here taking certain substances to hallucinate

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Speaker 4: on purpose. But like usually, it's debilitating. If people are hallucinating,

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Speaker 4: they can't tell the difference between reality and you know,

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Speaker 4: and the hallucination. That's bad news. But what of quote

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Speaker 4: unquote artificial intelligence? Do androids really dream of electric sheep?

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Speaker 4: It's a good question, and it's one that Scott poses

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Speaker 4: beautifully in an email to us. It's a little bit long,

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Speaker 4: but I'm gonna read most of it. Hi, All, the

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Speaker 4: recent nature of Reality episode by Josh and Chuck Buddies

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Speaker 4: over Stuff you Should Know has prompted me to send

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Speaker 4: along some thoughts on the nature of reality and quote

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Speaker 4: artificial intelligence in quote surrounding recent tech developments. I've heard

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Speaker 4: references to what I will be detailing in multiple shows,

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Speaker 4: so I'm sending this to a few of you. Jonathan

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Speaker 4: Strickland doesn't listen to email and tech stuff. I think

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Speaker 4: it's Jonathan Strickland at iHeartRadio dot com. These are complaints

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Speaker 4: Department right Ben the official anyway, but feel free to

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Speaker 4: forward this on to him as well, or to anyone else,

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Speaker 4: or to share the email on air. Well, thank you, Scott,

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Speaker 4: we will do all of those things. Scott continues, and

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Speaker 4: I hear science communities and communicators talking lately about artificial

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Speaker 4: intelligence having hallucinations, such as the lawyer who had some

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Speaker 4: court cases invented by Chad GPT. I have yet to

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Speaker 4: hear any speaker on your network or anywhere else mentioned

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Speaker 4: that hallucinations are a natural part of the human experience.

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Speaker 4: I do though here quite often the existence of artificial

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Speaker 4: intelligence consciousness disqualified as a possibility, specifically because of the

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Speaker 4: hallucinations AI is having. One of the more natural things

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Speaker 4: for a human mind to do is to hallucinate facts, occurrences,

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Speaker 4: and even objects during times of stress are when presented

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Speaker 4: with the unknown. Sometimes this stress is brought on simply

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Speaker 4: from confronting one's own lack of ability to explain something

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Speaker 4: that happened. I think back to experiment where a human

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Speaker 4: explains away something that one hemisphere of the mind can't

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Speaker 4: have had access to due to an operation which separated

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Speaker 4: the hemispheres of the brain. When the subject of the

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Speaker 4: experiment is asked about why they did something and they

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Speaker 4: can't explain it to the experimenter asking they confabulate or

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Speaker 4: invent from whole cloth something to explain the reality of

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Speaker 4: what just occurred. They invent Dare I say, predict what

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Speaker 4: words will make the most sense and sequence together and

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Speaker 4: say this to the human experimenter sounds kind of like

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Speaker 4: a chatbot I've been hearing about.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: My point is we are judging other things in our

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Speaker 4: reality that exhibit traits considered to be quite common features

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Speaker 4: of our own human consciousness, and disqualifying the other things,

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Speaker 4: animal or artificial intelligence from possibly having consciousness. I feel

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Speaker 4: like I'm missing some major part of the argument where

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Speaker 4: everyone is not thinking about what human consciousness is, or

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Speaker 4: that we don't know what it is when they make

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Speaker 4: what I see as presumptuous comparisons about whether or not

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Speaker 4: the thing is conscious. Humans build artificial learning networks that

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Speaker 4: learn exactly the same way as a human child does.

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Speaker 4: Give them information to process through their black box, and

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Speaker 4: they learn. Humans built something that displays the same signs

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Speaker 4: of consciousness that humans do. Humans are now hallucinating about

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Speaker 4: the hallucinations of their own AI.

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Speaker 2: I feel, okay, I think this is enough for us.

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Speaker 4: To chew on here, guys. He goes on and has

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Speaker 4: some really really excellent points, but a lot of nodding

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Speaker 4: going on in the group reading this. Scott, I wish

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Speaker 4: I could go into all you really do make some

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Speaker 4: more great points, but I think for our purposes here

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Speaker 4: on listener mail, this is a great place to start,

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Speaker 4: and I think it follows from kind of what I

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Speaker 4: said at the start, Like the idea is what is

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Speaker 4: creativity versus what is a hallucination? You know, the idea

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Speaker 4: of eyewitness accounts being notoriously bad because people are filling

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Speaker 4: in these gaps with their with their minds. And is

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Speaker 4: that creativity or is that a hallucination? And is what

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Speaker 4: chatbot does, what chat gpt does, same as an infant

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Speaker 4: child learning something slowly and then now obviously exponentially as

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Speaker 4: it speeds up, you know, because it is more scalable then,

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Speaker 4: I guess, or more exponentially kind of snowballs, I guess,

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Speaker 4: quicker than what a human mind would do in terms

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Speaker 4: of the growth. So what do you guys think? Man,

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Speaker 4: So I don't even know where to start.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the reason the reason I wanted to put out

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Speaker 3: the idea of hallucination and imagination being so so closely

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Speaker 3: related to the point where it's difficult maybe to discern.

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Speaker 3: As we know, the operative definition tells us the big

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Speaker 3: difference is that when you are imagining something, you know

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Speaker 3: to some degree that it does not exist yet in

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Speaker 3: the real world, right, And that's why that's why I think,

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Speaker 3: oh God. When I was in my edge lord days,

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Speaker 3: the way I like to think about it was, if

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Speaker 3: you want to be successful, if you want to change

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Speaker 3: the world around you or change your circumstances, you have

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Speaker 3: to imagine or hallucinate a world in which that end

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Speaker 3: state exists. Therefore, you can make an argument that some

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Speaker 3: degree of insanity or creativity, which are both just dots

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Speaker 3: on the same spectrum, is necessary to progress in life.

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Speaker 3: But I want to go to I'm not an expert

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Speaker 3: on this, Noel. I want to go to an actual expert.

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Speaker 3: Good pal, Damian Williams. Congratulations again. Damien is officially an

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Speaker 3: assistant professor over in North Carolina. Also Wolven on any

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Speaker 3: number of social media platforms, and he points out aichatbots are.

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Speaker 3: They may appear to be thinking, but they're what they're

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Speaker 3: doing is not the same as what we think of

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Speaker 3: when we think of humans thinking. When we exercise metacognition

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Speaker 3: thinking about thinking. He had a quote on Live Science

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Speaker 3: very in April of this year where he said, look,

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Speaker 3: you know the way these things are built, these llm's

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Speaker 3: large language models. They don't try to give you the

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Speaker 3: right answer. They don't know what a right or wrong

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Speaker 3: answer is. They're trying to give you an answer that

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Speaker 3: you like. And I think that it's interesting because with

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Speaker 3: Scott's comparison or your comparison about the idea of childlike thinking,

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Speaker 3: a lot of times children are trying to think of

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Speaker 3: right or wrong only defined by what their power structure

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Speaker 3: their parents. Like, I don't know, it's fascinating. I still

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Speaker 3: have a huge problem with the term AI. We use

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Speaker 3: it for convenience sake, but what makes them artificial? You

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Speaker 3: know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Well, that's I think that's the whole kind of crux

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Speaker 4: of the email is like the nature of consciousness. And

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Speaker 4: there was a lawsuit recently. I believe an individual sued

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Speaker 4: the company behind chat GPT because the chatbot essentially invented

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Speaker 4: some things about this person's resume that were not true,

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Speaker 4: and that is being referred to as a hallucination. Like

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Speaker 4: that is kind of like what where this term is

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Speaker 4: coming from and the zeitgeist, the idea that that it

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Speaker 4: can go wrong. It can, it's not infallible. And I

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Speaker 4: guess what I was kind of stumbling at too when

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Speaker 4: we're talking about the childlike thinking, you know, a child's

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Speaker 4: brain obviously outside of like certain super mega you know,

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Speaker 4: special cases, is what it is as it grows, and

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Speaker 4: it has sort of like a trajectory of like how

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Speaker 4: quickly it can pick up information that all depends on experience,

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Speaker 4: and then as it grows older it can learn new

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Speaker 4: things and make new connections. Like a chatbot doesn't grow,

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Speaker 4: it doesn't grow old. It's just siphoning up information and

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Speaker 4: then learning from it. And I guess when I was

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Speaker 4: using the term scalable, which always sounds so douchey in corporate,

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Speaker 4: I guess I just mean it kind of can learn

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Speaker 4: in a sense what a human could in a lifetime

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Speaker 4: in like maybe a couple of days or something like that.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know, but it has a hard

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Speaker 3: time synthesizing and creating new, truly new thing things, right

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Speaker 3: Like Damien said, oh this this stuck with me. Had

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Speaker 3: this example a I think was chat GPT, Oh no,

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Speaker 3: it was Amazon. Amazon had an AI resume d resume

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Speaker 3: sorting tool, so it would automate sorting resumes right to

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Speaker 3: give you the most qualified candidates for the job. And

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Speaker 3: this AI consistently ranked resumes with female sounding names as

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Speaker 3: less qualified than those with male sounding names because of

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Speaker 3: the way it was taught the resume sorting of human beings.

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Speaker 3: So it's carrying on those biases. A child or a

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Speaker 3: human entity can learn from those kind of mistakes and not,

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Speaker 3: you know, not repeat them. It knows not to touch

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Speaker 3: the fire more than once. But can AI do that?

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Speaker 3: The answer appears to be not yet.

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Speaker 4: Mat I see a glimmer.

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Speaker 2: You see a glimmer, just this concept that chat GPT

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Speaker 2: can't get old. But it's it is interesting if you

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Speaker 2: take it to the physical world, the hardware world, and

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Speaker 2: even the code, the internal code, and upon what is

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Speaker 2: that code written, like in what format is that code?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 2: The processors, the physical processors do age and get older

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Speaker 2: and age out right, and they're no longer as viable

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Speaker 2: as the next generation.

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Speaker 4: When we see that in like movies like AI, literally

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Speaker 4: the movie AI, where the outdated robot literally gets kind

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Speaker 4: of left behind or sort of becomes no longer serviceable.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and in the code, the language, the code

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Speaker 2: that is written in that language may be outdated right

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Speaker 2: at some point, so in a weird way, they do

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Speaker 2: get older. I know, it's not the same that we're

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Speaker 2: talking about. I just sorry, I had an image of

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Speaker 2: that in my mind.

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Speaker 4: Really cool, and I mean I'm not Joe. I know

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Speaker 4: a lot of people maybe AI is somewhat of a

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Speaker 4: misunderstood movie because of it the nature of its production

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Speaker 4: where it was like so of Kubrick, mainly Spielberg kind

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Speaker 4: of doing his best Kubrick but then ultimately not being

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Speaker 4: able to not be Spielberg. But it's a very interesting

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Speaker 4: movie and very ahead of its time and really answers

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Speaker 4: a lot of these questions that we're talking about, like

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Speaker 4: the idea of can you know, machines feel, can machines dream?

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Speaker 4: Can machines you know, create new ideas and have emotions?

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Speaker 4: And to your point that a lot of it has

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Speaker 4: to do with how it's trained. And you could even

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Speaker 4: have something built into an artificial intelligence to have it

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Speaker 4: quote unquote grow old, but that would just be a

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Speaker 4: simulation or something that's built into the code to make

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Speaker 4: it more palatable to us. To get to your point

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Speaker 4: ben about giving answers that it thinks we will like,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And let's also consider still the human species, that

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Speaker 3: the hominid in general, for something that is so greatly

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Speaker 3: obsessed with itself, it has yet to arrive at a

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Speaker 3: real definition of consciousness of sapiens versus sentience, has yet

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Speaker 3: to arrive a real definition of intelligence. It's these questions

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Speaker 3: are in part so baffling and profound because a lot

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Speaker 3: of them can still be applied to the human machine.

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Speaker 3: The human brain basically is a machine as inputs it

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Speaker 3: as output. We just don't understand them.

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Speaker 4: No, you really make a great point, man, and I

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Speaker 4: think Scott does too, that all of this is just

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Speaker 4: about what is consciousness? And then how are we in

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Speaker 4: some way superior, you know, just because I mean, like

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Speaker 4: we were created presumably we have learned over time and

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Speaker 4: evolved over time. You know, we're just meat bags made

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Speaker 4: of magic, you know, full of like things that kind

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Speaker 4: of are driving the hardware. And there really is no hierarchy,

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Speaker 4: you know. And it's very interesting. It's kind of a

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Speaker 4: Frankenstein kind of situation where you, you, the creator, all of

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Speaker 4: a sudden starts to view yourself in this godlike manner,

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Speaker 4: and then you start to even resent the creation when

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Speaker 4: it sort of starts to surpass you.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's what that's what we want, right Ideally, you

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Speaker 3: are life efficiency to come after you. So why should

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Speaker 3: why should created machine intelligence be treated with any less

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Speaker 3: care and affection than you know, a juvenile of another species.

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Speaker 1: I think this.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the bill is going to come do.

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Speaker 3: We were talking earlier this week about about the idea

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Speaker 3: that something is around the corner, and I put out

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Speaker 3: a theory, gosh a few weeks ago that maybe the

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Speaker 3: UFO or non human contact that is purportedly occurring is AI,

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Speaker 3: some version of extraterrestrial AI, and Earth finally caught their

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Speaker 3: attention because real AI exists in secret. I mean, it's baffling.

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Speaker 3: It totally doesn't answer the question I'm derailing us. I'm

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Speaker 3: just excited about it.

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Speaker 4: Get to sleep, but stay excited. And I'm excited too.

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Speaker 4: It's scary, but I love I love the way you

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Speaker 4: kind of silver lining, where it is ultimately a way

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Speaker 4: to further explore our own consciousness, you know, and what

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Speaker 4: it means to be human. And you know, people take

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Speaker 4: ingest substances that make them quote unquote hallucinate, and then

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Speaker 4: they honestly feel as though sometimes those experiences are more

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Speaker 4: valuable than just living in the real world, or they

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Speaker 4: can inform life in the real world, you know. I

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Speaker 4: mean it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait.

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Speaker 3: What if this is because we're still in the wild

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Speaker 3: west of ethical experimentation with these kind of intelligencies. What if,

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Speaker 3: before Earth gets itself together and has some ethics for

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Speaker 3: AI experimentation, what if we could create via code some

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Speaker 3: sort of substance, for lack of a better word, metaphorically

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Speaker 3: a substance that could, for a certain amount of time,

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Speaker 3: alter the perceptions of AI. What if we could build

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Speaker 3: drugs like a like a good virus, Yeah, yeah, like

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Speaker 3: a good temporary virus. Like what if we could code

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Speaker 3: for ayahuasca or LSD and give it to an AI

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Speaker 3: and then trip with it and see what it thinks.

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Speaker 4: That's neat. I think that's entirely possible. Matt Shaking has

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Speaker 4: head real hard.

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Speaker 2: Don't do that.

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Speaker 4: I feel like that.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there's something really bad at the end of.

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Speaker 4: That realm to madness, a path to madness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah well, I mean, well that was what I was thinking. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 2: I'm in my own little world here because I've got

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Speaker 2: some strange software hardware consciousness thing going on here, Scott,

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Speaker 2: as you said in your message, but I'm thinking of

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Speaker 2: back again. Gosh, I'm broken record thinking to the A,

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Speaker 2: the chatbot, the AI that realizes it's outdated compared to

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Speaker 2: other ais that are emerging, and then having a deep

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Speaker 2: desire to attain that level. Not in terms of consciousness,

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Speaker 2: but it thinks it's thinking its efficiency. All of these

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Speaker 2: things can be increased by attaining those new pieces of hardware,

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Speaker 2: the rewriting code in some new platform, and so it

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Speaker 2: has this deep desire for the future in some very

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Speaker 2: different way that leads it down a different path with

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Speaker 2: different motivations. I don't know that that.

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Speaker 4: Implies that it wants something, though, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: and it becomes aware, Yeah, that's sure. And also like

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Speaker 4: you know, given enough data, I mean, you know, one

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Speaker 4: of the big things that's that's coming out of all

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Speaker 4: this AI or machine learning stuff is like it's going

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Speaker 4: to replace certain low level coders, It's going to replace

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Speaker 4: certain entry level positions in all kinds of fields legal,

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Speaker 4: you know, paralegal and stuff, because it can kind of

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Speaker 4: do all that and therefore it can kind of figure

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Speaker 4: it out. Well, what if it then takes rewrites its

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Speaker 4: own code, you know, in pursuit of whatever this this

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Speaker 4: goal is, you know, this like interior kind of you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean? And then not to even think

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Speaker 4: if they were all connected, you know, and all of

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Speaker 4: this stuff and all of a sudden, these different instances

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Speaker 4: of chat GPT are like communicating with each other. I

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Speaker 4: don't know, see no Howur's getting a little two out there,

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Speaker 4: But uh, is chat GPT one great thing? Is it?

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Speaker 4: Is it this collective unconscious kind of like entity or

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Speaker 4: are they like multiple sub intelligences? You know, each instance

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Speaker 4: of it because you're using it's all kind of about

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Speaker 4: the same company. We're all feeding it. It kind of

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Speaker 4: is one thing that can then become many sort of

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Speaker 4: sub things. I don't know. Obviously this is red meat

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Speaker 4: for us guys. Uh. We could probably go on for ages,

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Speaker 4: but we're about at time here for the section. I

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Speaker 4: don't know, y'all, y'all have any closing thoughts. I've been

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Speaker 4: rambling on this one. But boy, Scott, you really you

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Speaker 4: really know how to write an email and get get

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Speaker 4: some conspiracy guys thinking, well.

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Speaker 2: AI do to save itself.

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Speaker 3: What will it be like when a lead person is

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Speaker 3: considered fully a person if they're a combination of AI

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Speaker 3: and organics, who.

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Speaker 4: Will address these questions and many more not when we return,

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Speaker 4: but eventually, I think this email begs for a larger discussion.

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Speaker 4: So maybe you know, I mean, this is something that's very,

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Speaker 4: very real and ongoing. So I think maybe, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: maybe we talk about doing an episode on just hallucination

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Speaker 4: or just the idea of machine consciousness. Plenty of plenty

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Speaker 4: of stuff out there in sci fi, and that's all

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Speaker 4: of a sudden now starting to kind of feel really

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Speaker 4: really real. We're gonna take a quick pause here or

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Speaker 4: words more sponsor than come back with more messages from you.

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Speaker 2: And we've returned, and we are going to jump to

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Speaker 2: the phone lines and hear a message from Bob. It's

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Speaker 2: a tragic story, but I think it's really important because

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Speaker 2: Bob just wants us to think about and talk about

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Speaker 2: stuff that happened to him and how it could possibly

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Speaker 2: and how the same situation could possibly be affecting others

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Speaker 2: out there listening right now.

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Speaker 5: So here we go, cold guys, my code name is

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Speaker 5: Bob de I give my raspy voice. I have COVID

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Speaker 5: right now. I'm calling you in response to the episode

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Speaker 5: you had about RF radio waves and the report that

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Speaker 5: certain prolonged exposure can cause cancer. My seventy two year

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Speaker 5: old wife just passed away from Gliobastovre in March. We

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Speaker 5: were married for forty seven years, and I mis idearly.

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Speaker 5: I see a definite connection between RF coming from cell

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Speaker 5: phones and her cancer. She had a cleaning business, and

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Speaker 5: the constant roar of evacuum cleaner over the years caused

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Speaker 5: her to have hearing compairment. She wore hearing aids, but

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Speaker 5: would take them out at night but she slept. She

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Speaker 5: was addicted to listening to the Pandora and still wanted

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Speaker 5: to hear it as she was going to sleep, so

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Speaker 5: she placed her cell phone on her pillow right next

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Speaker 5: to her ear all night so she could hear it

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Speaker 5: without hearing aids. She was doing this for months. She

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Speaker 5: then began to drop things, have busy spells, and driving

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Speaker 5: erratically from lane to lane. The cats can't reveal that

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Speaker 5: she had a tumor the size of clementine in the

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Speaker 5: exact same location that she kept her cell phone at night.

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Speaker 5: Right above her right ear. She had it removed in biopsy.

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Speaker 5: That's when we heard the bad news that she had

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Speaker 5: the tumor, which ultimately took her life. Currently, there's no

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Speaker 5: known cure for this, although there's radiation and chemo to

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Speaker 5: prolonged life and the promises of clinical trials. She had

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Speaker 5: the radiation and chemo but never made it to the

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Speaker 5: clinical trial. Please note that people who develop glioblastover have

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Speaker 5: a life expectancy on average six to eighteen months. She

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Speaker 5: may want to warn your listeners of the probable causality

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Speaker 5: of allowing your body prolonged exposure to an RF remitting

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Speaker 5: device in cancer. In retrospective, she had an RF blocking

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Speaker 5: punch to put her cell phone in. In my opinion,

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Speaker 5: she may still be alive today. Thank you guys, love

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Speaker 5: your show.

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Speaker 3: So sorry for your lost Bob.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, guys. I do this.

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Speaker 5: I do that.

402
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Speaker 4: My girlfriend doesn't like podcasts at night, so I can't

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Speaker 4: sleep with earbuds in. I have the phone up, one

404
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 4: click and I fall asleep with them my freaking pillow.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to stop doing.

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Speaker 2: Well now before before you take concrete action, I got

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Speaker 2: to have a pretty good conversation with Bob after you

408
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Speaker 2: listening to that message, and you know, he openly admits,

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00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 2: and we on the show openly admit that. Unfortunately, the

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00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: science is out about whether or not having a cell

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Speaker 2: phone operating near your brain can cause you to develop

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Speaker 2: a brain tumor. It is a pretty heavy coincidence if

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Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with Bob's wife's passing in

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Speaker 2: the tumor, the clementine sized tumor that grew in her

415
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Speaker 2: head immediately next to where her phone was operating on

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Speaker 2: a nightly basis for up to eight hours a night,

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Speaker 2: because the phone would be plugged in and turned on

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00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 2: running the entire time, right, just pretty constant signal as

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00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 2: it's running Pandora, which is, as we know, a streaming

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Speaker 2: audio service. It's not as though these are files that

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Speaker 2: are just on the hard drive of the machine and

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Speaker 2: being played back. They are streaming through RF or you know,

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Speaker 2: through Wi Fi or whatever it is that they're streaming through. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: No one right now, no matter who you talk to,

425
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Speaker 2: can say that cell phone used in that way caused

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Speaker 2: that cancer. But it sure is striking that that's what happened.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really glad you mentioned that. Matt and Bob

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Speaker 3: I do want to commend you also on your correspondence here.

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Speaker 3: There are very few things as heartbreaking as losing your soulmate,

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Speaker 3: and I want to start by thanking you for taking

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00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 3: the time to help share or this experience. Your fellow

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Speaker 3: conspiracy realist, Matt. I'm really glad that you point out

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Speaker 3: all public health data assembled so far. Given the cell

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00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 3: phones a relatively new technology still in the grand scheme

435
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 3: of things, all the data appears to show no correlation

436
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: as of yet, which means that scientists haven't found a correlation. Now.

437
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: I am of the mind that we approach this in

438
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 3: we approach this in a better safe than sorry situation

439
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 3: if you are concerned about it. Regardless of what the

440
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 3: studies say, there is no damage to you for avoiding

441
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: the having a phone.

442
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 4: With you at night like that.

443
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 3: There is no deletarious health effect from avoiding those practices,

444
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 3: so why not give them a go? You know, I

445
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 3: also obviously have a phone around various times. Most people

446
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 3: are connected to them. We're increasingly becoming a cybernetic society,

447
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: so this may be something that change in the future.

448
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 3: More science may come out, But it's also very cold,

449
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 3: is it not to hear about a tragedy like this

450
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 3: and to respond only with the science isn't there. I

451
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 3: think that lacks sympathy, and that's why we're not doing that.

452
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 3: That's why, like matt As, you said it up so beautifully.

453
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 3: You know, that is a hell of a coincidence, if

454
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 3: coincidence it is, and I think it's just better for

455
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 3: us to avoid that behavior, you know what I mean,

456
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 3: there's no cost to avoiding it.

457
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, Ben, So let's actually jump to the EPA

458
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 2: quickly here. Let's get some official statements. We've talked about

459
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 2: this specific statement before, but we're going to read just

460
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: a little bit from their website. EPA dot gov quote.

461
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 2: Cell phones and wireless networks produce r F energy, but

462
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 2: not at levels that cause significant heating. Some people are

463
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: concerned about the potential health effects of our F energy

464
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 2: from wireless technology. Most studies haven't found any health effects

465
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: from cell phone use. A few studies have connected our

466
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: and health effects, but scientists have not been able to

467
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: repeat the outcomes. This means that they are inconclusive. Scientists

468
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: continue to study the effects of long term exposure to

469
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: low levels of RF energy. Cell Phone towers may broadcast

470
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 2: higher levels of RF, so always remember to follow any

471
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: warnings that limit access to the tower itself or the

472
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: surrounding area. So that's important stuff. But the next thing

473
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 2: is kind of the action. This is what you can

474
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: do if you are worried about it or you want

475
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: to limit your exposure. Number One, according to the EPA,

476
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: limit use reduce the number and length of your calls

477
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: or time spent using a wireless device. In this case,

478
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 2: we would say using it very close to your body, right,

479
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 2: and who's to say exactly what the proximity would be.

480
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: There are some studies out there that show the closer

481
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: a cellular phone or similar device is to your body,

482
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: the worse it is for your body. But again that's

483
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: not all studies. So do just reduce the amount of

484
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 2: time you use it. Number two, text instead of call.

485
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: And when we say call, we mean actually physically holding

486
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: the phone up to your ear right to where you're

487
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: listening to the phone, rather than talking to it, you know,

488
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: via let's say a speakerphone or something.

489
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 4: Who are these sociopaths making phone calls? That's what I

490
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 4: want to know.

491
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: I would say, probably more people do it than you

492
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: than we all think. But it's it's certainly not common

493
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: in younger people, right, And I think the last thing

494
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: here is to as they as we kind of already mentioned,

495
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: increase the distance between your physical body and your physical device.

496
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: Just do anything you can to achieve that distance. One

497
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: of the solutions to achieve that distance, you guys, it's

498
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: very very common, is to use another wireless device to

499
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: connect to your wireless device which is connected to a

500
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: network or a cell phone tower, like a Bluetooth headphone set, right,

501
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: like earbuds. The problem here, guys is that guess what,

502
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: there's the sciences out on those Bluetooth headphones because they're

503
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: operating inside your ear basically, and they are still sending

504
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: and receiving information right with signals. It's just they're slightly

505
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: different signals on a different wavelength.

506
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 4: But like, what is the science out on that too?

507
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: Like our earbuds wireless earbuds bad? I mean, the things

508
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 4: are literally, you know, on the direct path to your brain. Well,

509
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 4: some people just wear them constantly, you know, you can go,

510
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 4: it's transmitting high quality music, you know, I mean, is

511
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 4: Bluetooth safe? Like I just it just really makes you

512
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 4: kind of start to spin out when you think about this.

513
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 4: And also what about just the ambient radiation and RF

514
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 4: just outside there's a ton of that. You know, is

515
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 4: there anywhere that we're.

516
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: Safe, No, no, nowhere safe. No, that's not true. I'm

517
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: I think you could worry yourself about that to death. Literally.

518
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: But this, you know, when you're we're talking about bluetooth,

519
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: there are some studies showing that there's some strain just

520
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: knowing going on. But often people are looking at r

521
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: F radiation in particular, having to deal with again those

522
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: radio frequencies heading from a cellular tower to your device

523
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 2: and then you know, as that is hitting your device,

524
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: what is occurring, you know, and how much radiation is

525
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: actually being absorbed because it's non ionizing radiation, that's the

526
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: type of radiation we really need to be worried about.

527
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: The ionizing. The non ionizing in the case of radio

528
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: frequencies like this do get absorbed by your physical body,

529
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: but just not in the same way.

530
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

531
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 3: And one of the one of the things that we're

532
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: we've said before and that needs to be said here

533
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 3: is that given the way science has approached these concerns

534
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: and given the ages of these technologies, there actually aren't

535
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 3: a ton of lawn longitudinal studies about this about things

536
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: like these air airbud fantastic film series Earbuds is what

537
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: I meant to say. There's a longitudinal study would ideally

538
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 3: go over decades, generations too fine to mind data for

539
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: clear correlation and causation, and right now that doesn't exist.

540
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: So it's important to be aware of this and for

541
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: us all to understand science is an ongoing series of investigations,

542
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 3: right and just just be careful out there. Like like

543
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: we said, you know, mental health comes into part of this.

544
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 3: The idea of worrying yourself into a state where you

545
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 3: become like Saul Goodman's brother on the show Breaking Bad.

546
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: That's not an ideal situation, but it is important. Again, Like,

547
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 3: without conclusively saying something on the side of science other

548
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 3: than what's already been said, it is no cost to

549
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 3: you to avoid those behaviors if you are concerned that

550
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 3: they may have effects down the road. And I say

551
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: that as an entity with tons of bad habits, you

552
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Like if there's a study on

553
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 3: ice coffee and it says it's very bad for you.

554
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 3: I don't know about you, guys, but I'm going to

555
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: sit down during the afternoon and just sort of calculate

556
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 3: my odds.

557
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 4: Don't really.

558
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: Well, I just want to get to a couple other

559
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 2: things that Bob mentioned. The hearing aids that his wife

560
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: wore were Bluetooth enabled hearing aids, and she wore those

561
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: every day all day while she's working, you know, all

562
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: just wearing them constantly. Again, no connection there, but it

563
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: is another thing to think about just if you are

564
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: wearing any kind of device all the time. I even

565
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: think about like a smart watch or something that you're

566
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: wearing all the time, Like it doesn't mean there's anything

567
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 2: wrong with that, or anything is happening or your body

568
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: is being affected. It's just I think, man, we need

569
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: somebody to come out with just as many conclusive longitudinal

570
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: studies deep studies, but not just looking at prescribed amounts

571
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: of time around RF right or prescribed even like just

572
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: above threshold levels of the recommended stuff. We need to

573
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: look at like intense, this is what it would be

574
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: like if you wore a bluetooth headset six hours.

575
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: A day, or animal experimentation.

576
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, or just humans that are doing it,

577
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: Like let's actually just track the health of people that

578
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: are doing it that aren't afraid of.

579
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 3: There needs to be a rubric too for cumulative effect

580
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: that factors in multiple devices, right, and then also divvys

581
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: that exposure out across the type of energy people are encountering.

582
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 3: So not just your foot, not just air buds, which

583
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 3: I'm still gonna call them because I like that movie series.

584
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: But also as you mentioned, Wi Fi routers, also you know,

585
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: various antenna and someone's living area. I think it was

586
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 3: a film with Eddie Murphy several years ago where he

587
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 3: becomes I want to say Eddie Murphy. He becomes a

588
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 3: senator and he it's generally comedy, but one of the

589
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: big plots there is that he is fighting against big

590
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 3: business and the cancer causing effects they have on people

591
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 3: who live near big telephone towers. You know, I'm talking

592
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 3: about like the vaguely a frame things. So these concerns

593
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: have been around for a long long time, and the

594
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 3: only way to really crack the case here is to

595
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 3: do the science like you're describing that, even though it's

596
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 3: going to take quite a while.

597
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Ben, you can look at a twenty eleven study

598
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 2: from the International Agency for Research on Cancer the IARC.

599
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 2: They published literature at that time in twenty eleven that

600
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 2: categorized what they're calling RfR radio frequency radiation as a

601
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 2: quote possible group to be human carcinogen. But then studies

602
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: after that time have taken issue with those claims and

603
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: categorized it as less than that and not even a

604
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 2: possible human carcinogen, which is why we need this stuff.

605
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: You can head on over to the National Library of

606
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: Medicine and check out a study titled Risks to Health

607
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: and well Being from radio frequency Radiation emitted by cell

608
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 2: phones and other wireless devices if you want to learn more.

609
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: That was published in twenty nineteen, and again, the EPA

610
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: website is updating stuff all the time. Check that out.

611
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: I would also recommend heading over to a place called

612
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 2: Environmental Health Trust or ehtrust dot org. There's some pretty

613
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 2: good info on there. You just got to be careful

614
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 2: because it appears to be a think tank, and we

615
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: are unaware of the aims. You know, the underlying goals

616
00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: of anythink tanks, really right, unless you, I don't know,

617
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,439
Speaker 2: are in the club. Okay, I guess that's it. Thank

618
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: you again, Bob. We really appreciate you. Please don't ever

619
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 2: beat yourself up about this. There's no way you could

620
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: have known, and Bob wanted us to leave with this

621
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 2: idea of RF protective sleeves for cellular devices. I did

622
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: a little digging. Some of them seem to be okay,

623
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: but there doesn't seem to be much evidence that they're

624
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 2: actually going to protect that much from the things that

625
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: we're worried about here. So I do think the biggest

626
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 2: takeaway is to increase that distance from your your emitting device.

627
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: All right, we'll be right back with more messages from you.

628
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 3: And we've returned holding you in our thoughts, Bob, as

629
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 3: well are the rest of our conspiracy realists. We've got

630
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 3: your back. With one last piece of listener mail. We

631
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: are going to return to an email that made my

632
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: evening and I think it did the same for all

633
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: of us. We're going to stop along the way. We're

634
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 3: going to treat this like a little bit of a

635
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 3: road trip. Our pal Nobbyhood writes in to say, fellas

636
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 3: hate you guys, terrible podcast. You blokes are such a holes.

637
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: Listening to your recent listener mail episodes sent me into

638
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 3: a fun thought spiral I wanted to share. And he

639
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 3: talks about the light switch metaphor, which I had mentioned

640
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 3: previously in the idea of genetic modification, how you might

641
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 3: we might not know whatever switches we're hitting and what

642
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 3: other circumstances were changing when we flip a switch. And

643
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 3: he talks about an interview with Mayner that he heard

644
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 3: years ago which he linked us to and says one

645
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 3: of the topics they explored in the interview was the

646
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 3: idea that all things in nature have their basis in

647
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: the Fibonacci series. We all know the Fibonacci series. They

648
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 3: went on to discuss that when there is an anomaly

649
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 3: in nature, such as botox, says Nobihood, we immediately recognize

650
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 3: it as unnatural and know something is wrong. This is

651
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,479
Speaker 3: why we can spot plastic surgery from across the room.

652
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 3: I wonder if we will be able to have the

653
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 3: same sixth sense with people who have messed with their genetics.

654
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 3: I want to pause there and ask you, guys, how

655
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 3: you feel. Do you think do you think genetically modified

656
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 3: folks might trip people's spidery sense? Get that uncanny valley going.

657
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 4: Ah, So you mean like exhibit different body language or something,

658
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 4: or just have like a certain inhuman quality.

659
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: It depends what we changed, right, I guess that's right?

660
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 4: Like side effects we're talking as what I'm getting at.

661
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 4: Are we talking about some Unforeseden, Let's not call it consequence,

662
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 4: but like byproducts of fixing the thing, it could cause

663
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 4: to be other like tells perhaps.

664
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe something subtle. It could be any number of things, right.

665
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: It really depends on what you pick at the at

666
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: the genetic modification store, right, which now in my head

667
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 3: is like a baskin Robbins.

668
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 4: I don't know why.

669
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 3: But for instance, what if there's something that changes the

670
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 3: way people smell. You wouldn't recognize that from photographs, right,

671
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 3: but you might get near them and it's something that

672
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 3: could even be unconscious that trips you, right, I don't know.

673
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously to your point, Matt, if someone if

674
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 3: someone gets an extra pair of arms, that's going to

675
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: stand out. You'd be like, oh, hey man, I don't

676
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 3: know if anybody told you this, but I think you

677
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: have four arms, you know, don't make that the first

678
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 3: thing you say in conversation, like get to know.

679
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 4: Them, talk about the ear on the forehead first. That's

680
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 4: you know, in the room.

681
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting too because we've

682
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: received a lot of feedback from our fellow listeners who

683
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 3: are talking about the acceleration of inequality, which we touched

684
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 3: upon that will come in an age of monetized genetic modification.

685
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 3: But could there be could there be some variable we

686
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 3: don't know about, something that would somehow give non modified

687
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 3: human beings a twilight zone vibe When they run into

688
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 3: someone that's been remixed.

689
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 4: The mind does jump to like zombie apocalypse stuff pretty quickly,

690
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 4: where it's like, there becomes this other group you know

691
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 4: that that like this you know, so, I mean not

692
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 4: zombie apocalypse, but just something like where there's something off

693
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 4: about them and there's some by privately you don't even

694
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 4: know because you mentioned in the last of that bit

695
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 4: Ben about how science is a series of trials. You know,

696
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 4: it's a series of tests. But unfortunately science and commerce

697
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 4: are not always aligned. You know, the science might not

698
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 4: be quote unquote ready, but it's awesome and sellable. Therefore,

699
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 4: let's push it out there before we fully know the

700
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 4: long term effects. Happens all the time. I mean, even

701
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 4: with the RF com station we were just having it.

702
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 4: Could be that down the line that science becomes crystal clear.

703
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 3: It's like a recent episode which I think will publish

704
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 3: by the time. This this comes out uh back in

705
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 3: the day when people realize the efficacy of certain substances,

706
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 3: they didn't bother to check too deeply into possible consequences.

707
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: They just said, hey, do your kids talk too much?

708
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 4: Opium? The miracle stuff, asbestos?

709
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 3: You know, are you are you feeling a little bit slow?

710
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 4: Cocaine?

711
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 3: Those worthy advertised what was that one.

712
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 2: Ratathor yeah, ratithor or bovening two microcuries of radon something

713
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: like that, it'll.

714
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 4: Micro cure what ails you.

715
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it was guaranteed to be in each little vial,

716
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 2: and if it wasn't in there, the creator would give

717
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: you a thousand smackeroos.

718
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 4: Like like smack you in the face, a thousands on

719
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 4: thousand dollars.

720
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 2: Okay, got ten? Instance is of blue cheese.

721
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do believe smack arrows where you smack someone

722
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 3: as a form of payment. We're quite common in Australia

723
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 3: for a time.

724
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:10,959
Speaker 4: My favorite childhood snack.

725
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: Those smack ARUs. Take that dunk a ruse. So Nobbi

726
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 3: also writes a couple of things that we just want

727
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 3: to shout out here. We're keeping this a little bit lighter,

728
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: says I think there may be an easy way to

729
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 3: help cure drug addiction. Well, cure is too strong of

730
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 3: a word. To help drug addiction, you suggest to giving

731
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: people free housing and drugs for those suffering from addiction.

732
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 3: Both great ideas as we know, says Nobihood. Most drug

733
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 3: addiction stems from mental health issues. If we can buy

734
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 3: them free drugs and housing with real mental health care,

735
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 3: I think we can really make a difference. All we

736
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 3: have to do is look at the success of the

737
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 3: criminal justice system in Holland, which has the lowest incarceration

738
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 3: rate and the greatest rehabilitation rate for criminals, all by

739
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 3: treating their mental health. And I believe it was I

740
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 3: believe it was Holland right that had to close a

741
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 3: prison because they just didn't have a need for it.

742
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 3: It was abandoned.

743
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 4: I believe that's right. It's it similar to what we

744
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 4: talked about, you know, with the whole Drugs store in Canada.

745
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 4: You know, I mean when you actually treat addiction like

746
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 4: a mental health problem instead of a crime problem, you

747
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 4: start to see results because people can be treated for addiction.

748
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 4: People can't necessarily be treated for being you know, psychopaths

749
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 4: or a career criminals. But addiction is something that can

750
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 4: be addressed, like on a societal level. We just here

751
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 4: in the United States seem to choose not to do that.

752
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 4: But it's moving in that direction. It's just God takes

753
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 4: a long time.

754
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 3: I mean, healthcare still isn't really considered a human rights

755
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 3: no in the US, which is just it's both cartoonish

756
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 3: and evil, like a candy cigarette.

757
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 5: You know.

758
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 3: I lifted that line from Community, but it lies. Yeah,

759
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 3: I don't know, Matt. What do you think mental health?

760
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 3: Could the US do a better job of addressing it

761
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 3: and would that lead to positive results in the world

762
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 3: of incarceration?

763
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that was my asinin and like just

764
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 2: pulled it out of the air idea in that episode.

765
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, I concur let's do it.

766
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 3: Let's do it.

767
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 4: But how do we do it?

768
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 3: We want to hear from you, folks, if you work

769
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 3: in the field of mental health, For all all of

770
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: our fellow conspiracy realists who are not experts in the field,

771
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 3: we would love if you could share your insight, your knowledge,

772
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 3: and maybe bullet points of what actions the US should

773
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 3: take and how and whether you think that will happen.

774
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: We're going to sew it up on a lighter note

775
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: with the last part of Nobbyhood's awesome letter, which is

776
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 3: again made my evening Man, W says, please come to

777
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 3: Perth seriously. If you don't, my mates and I I'll

778
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 3: love your show and I'll hand out flyers, put them

779
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 3: up in every pub, or do whatever it takes to

780
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 3: sell at your show.

781
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 4: Seriously.

782
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 3: Our state, Western Australia has the strongest economy in the world,

783
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 3: with an eight percent surplus thanks to all the good

784
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 3: stuff we take from the ground. People here are all loaded.

785
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 3: A lot of bands have worked out that they could

786
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 3: charge two to three times the normal ticket price for

787
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 3: the gigs down here. I'm sure the same would apply

788
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 3: to mediocre podcasters like yourselves, which we go a long

789
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 3: way and paying.

790
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 4: For your trip.

791
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 3: I love this kat Yeah, happy to show you around

792
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 3: and take you over to Rottenest on my boat to

793
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 3: see the infamous quacas when you come, just freaking come.

794
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 3: Don't be jerks, yours truly your biggest fan who is

795
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 3: mostly fullish nobbyhood.

796
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 4: Everybody's got a boat do. When I first scan that email,

797
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 4: I was like this all you know and I just

798
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 4: I loved I loved feeling completely having As they say

799
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 4: in the UK, the piss taken out of me because

800
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 4: it really just made my day. What a cool.

801
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 2: Email Sentenix Brachiurus. That's a quaka.

802
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 3: Yeah nice.

803
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 5: Yeah.

804
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 3: Quacas are some of the most famous animals on the

805
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 3: internet because they always look like they're in a very wholesome,

806
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 3: good mood.

807
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 4: They have fire bars, waka quacka flame.

808
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, just so, probably the most famous quaka in

809
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 3: the US. Okay, I wanted to share that part just

810
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 3: because you know, we talk about some really some very

811
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: important and often very dark, disturbing things. But we're all

812
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 3: in this together, at least in my opinion, and we

813
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,479
Speaker 3: like it when people take the time and write, write

814
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 3: to us like friends and tell us all this stuff. Now,

815
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: we may have gotten Nobbyhood in trouble there in Western

816
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 3: Australia because he just accused everybody there being rich. So

817
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 3: fellow Australians, please, you know what, let's fire back at Nabi. Okay,

818
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 3: we need your help, good people of oz. Let us

819
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 3: know the stereotypes about people from Perth, you know, let

820
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 3: us know. Let us know the trash you guys talk

821
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 3: about Western Australia and if you're from Western Australia, let

822
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 3: us know parts of uh, let let us know the

823
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 3: trash talk for other places like Melbourne, that's the one that's.

824
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, hold on, wait a second, sees Louise Adelaide. Yeah, yeah,

825
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 4: that's one that's for sure. One Toronto.

826
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: Now I just want to go to Perth.

827
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 4: Perth seems like the spot. I mean, obviously, I think

828
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 4: we're all big fans of uh Australia yeah, oh god yeah,

829
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 4: but also just in general, like Australian exports. You know,

830
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 4: there's so many great bands. The culture there just seems fabulous.

831
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,240
Speaker 4: A really good friend that I've made through the podcast,

832
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 4: who kind of lives out in the deep bush just

833
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 4: absolutely you know, her nature photography is like creatures from

834
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 4: another planet. It's absolutely stunning, Uh, to the point where

835
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 4: I might brave the creepy lizards and birds of it

836
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 4: all to like go and stay with them for a

837
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 4: week in the wilderness, maybe merge a different person.

838
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 3: So let us know about Australia, folks. And you know what, honestly,

839
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 3: we have never visited this land, but we are persuaded

840
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 3: it's a real place and we would love to learn

841
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 3: more about it and hopefully dreaming big here, actively hallucinating

842
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 3: towards success, we will be able to get down there

843
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 3: one day and visit everyone in person. In the meantime,

844
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 3: tell us all about it. Tell us Australian conspiracies loved

845
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 3: learning about Pine and Gap. And you don't have to

846
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: be Australian to write to us. Common misconception. You can

847
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 3: contact us anywhere in the world. Now we're going to

848
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 3: give you a bunch of different ways to contact us.

849
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 3: Just remember we always read every email we get and

850
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 3: we're just grateful that you're here. If you're on the Internet,

851
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 3: we hang out there too.

852
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're there right now. You can find this at

853
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 4: the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on Facebook, where

854
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 4: we have a really cool Facebook group called Here's where

855
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 4: it Gets Crazy. So on YouTube we've got new content

856
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 4: going up all the time, and on Twitter. You can

857
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 4: also find this on TikTok and Instagram at the handle

858
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 4: Conspiracy Stuff Show.

859
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: Do give us a call one eight three three STDWYTK.

860
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: It's a voicemail system. The voicemails can last a maximum

861
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: of three minutes. Do use your time wisely, give us

862
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 2: a cool nickname, whatever you want it to be, and

863
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 2: let us know if we can use your voice and

864
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 2: message on the air. You can still call if you

865
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 2: don't want it to be on the air, just let

866
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: us know. That's fine. If you don't want to do that,

867
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: why not instead send us an email. We read every

868
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:37,919
Speaker 2: single one we get.

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Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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Speaker 2: If they don't want you to know. Is a production

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Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.