WEBVTT - You're So Vain, Earthlings 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:13.720 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. This is 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:16.840 Robert Lamb and this is Julie Douglas. Tell me this, Julie, 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:20.840 what is it about the human navel that makes people 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.400 question the very fabric of existence? Well, you say fabric. 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.720 I think of land, of course, but beyond that, um, 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.040 I think that I think of the proverbial sixteen year 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:35.040 old sitting around wondering why he or she is on 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.920 this earth made to endure high school? Um? Or you know, 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.080 why am I the daughter or the son of my 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.920 particular set of parents and so on and so forth. Yeah, yeah, 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:49.360 And then the navel makes one think of this because 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.239 it's like where does it begin? Where does it end? 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.240 That's right origins, you know, that's that's where we hooked up. 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.920 If you were willing pull on the navel like this, 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.639 the person unravel. You know, what does an audi mean? 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.120 What is any mean? This lint come from without or 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.320 from within? Because I always thought it came from within, 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.320 but I could it comes from a without. I think 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.920 the lint comes from without. I don't know. I have 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.760 a self cleaning belly button, so I can't really those 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.119 are great. I heard those are on the market. Yeah yeah, um, 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:21.440 they're kind of expensive, but they're well worth it. Yeah. Um. 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.479 But no, I mean I think that when you had 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.800 proposed doing this podcast, I thought about the navel gazing 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.959 for sure, But um on a cosmological level, yeah, yeah, 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.440 I think on like on the individual level, and I'll 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.200 throughout this podcast, we're gonna start with the individual on 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:39.880 sort of you know, span out like powers a tent, 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.120 you know, until we reach the you know, the boundaries 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.880 of of understanding, because we're vinglorious like that. Yes. Um, 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.120 So it's like on a on a very simple level, 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:51.800 it's like, yeah, we all give those moments. It's just 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.280 this little like generalis like just one little nugget of 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.760 pure thought, you know, I mean, unformed thought. We we 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.040 kind of think, you know, here I am, I and 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.760 I exist. I'm thinking right now. You know, just just 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.800 stop for a second and do that, gentle listener, Yeah 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.000 that right there isn't that amazing? Yeah? You know, and 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:11.880 then other stuff comes crashing in. We end up thinking 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.560 about the grocery list or or you know, or we 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.560 we throw religion in on top of it and explain 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.959 everything away to a certain extent. But but for that 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.440 one moment, for that one moment, for that one brief, 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:28.000 glorious moment, you get a sense of the the gravitas 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:32.960 of this moment where we're actually existing. And and if 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.600 you're an astrophysicist, you have been thinking about this. You're 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:38.880 probably your entire life, not just nable gazing about it 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.639 when you were sixteen, and you're applying it to not 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.480 just hey, we're sitting here in a podcast booth talking 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:50.560 about this. Why are we in particular sitting here on 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.720 Earth in this solar system? What what makes us so 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.959 special or not special? Exactly? Yeah, that's that's that's what 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.240 people keep discussing time and time and end though there 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.800 was a time when, in the same way that you 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:06.280 know that that we're at the center of any of 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.600 these questions. You know, why am I here? You know what? 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.720 How did how did I get to be here? Um? 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.919 You know people have used to have the sen sort 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:18.400 of models for the cosmos. You had the geocentric model. UM. 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:23.280 That was sort of an early scientific way of understanding, um, 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.280 the visible Solar system and how the planets and everything 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:30.040 moved in our relationship to right and so geocentricism is 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.240 the Earth is the center of the universe and everything 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.040 else revolves around us. And uh, and that was a 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.560 big medicine back in the back in the day. But 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.840 then you ended up having a new theory come up 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:44.200 come along called the heliocentric theory, which said, actually, Earth 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.760 isn't the center of the universe. The Sun is the 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:51.320 center of the universe. I saw I saw something Africa, 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.280 which which thinker it was? But someone had like, no, no, 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.160 it was Tico Bray, the guy with the who's amazing 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.640 we had like the fake nose because he lost a 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.840 nose in a duel. Yeah, and he had a he 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.360 had like a pet deer that lived in the in 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:10.280 the mansion with him or the castle with him or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.120 and he would like feed the deer beer. And then 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.560 the deer drank itself to death and fell down some stairs. 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:18.240 And then someone may or may not have poisoned Tico, 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.520 or he may have um his bladder may have exploded 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:23.919 because he was too drunk to get up from the 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.679 dinner table. There are different theories. He was a great man, 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.000 but uh, he kind of had like he was he 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.400 wasn't like fully ready to adopt the heliocentric model. At 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.799 one point he was that he said, you know, okay, 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.120 the Sun is the center of the universe, and then 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.320 the Earth revolves around the Sun, but then everything else 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.520 revolves around here or or it was a variation on that. 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:48.080 But so yeah, but one of the early um, uh, 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:49.720 you know, one of the early guys that really committed 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.320 to this was Nicholas Copernicus. Uh. And to give him 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:54.440 more of a frame of reference, this guy lived fourteen 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:58.120 seventy three to fifty three, and you know, he's a 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.520 mathematician astronomer and uh. And yeah, he was cool with 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:03.760 the idea that Earth was not the center of everything. 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:06.479 And out of a lot of his thinking comes this 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.480 thing called the Copernican principle. And this just says that 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.360 there's uh, there's no there are no special observers, there 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.800 are no special origins or viewpoints and uh. And so 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.960 that if you have a theory about about humanity, about 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:26.000 humanity's origins or its place in the cosmos, um that 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.719 you know that that gives you know, humans a privileged position, 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.719 then from a scientific standpoint at least, that theory is bunk. Okay, Alright, 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.640 So the really intriguing part of this I think that 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.040 you had sent me is is something about a little 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:44.240 lady named Goldilocks. Yes, uh, and everyone's familiar with the 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.200 Goldilocks story. Can you tell us the story? Yeah, yeah, 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.920 you've got Goldilocks, she of the blonde tresses who breaks 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:57.280 in um to this house with three bears are the tenants, right, 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:58.960 And it's like a mother and a father and a 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.520 child bear. Right. Yeah, So I mean, you know she's 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:04.800 they're not there, so she can't terrorize them, but she 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.240 does rifle through their stuff. She eats their food, she 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:14.000 tests out their beds um, and she's very particular, this Goldilocks. 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.040 It's interesting I read that they are older models of 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.080 the story, because of course all these folk tales are 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.960 as old as time, and but in some of the 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.560 older models of it, apparently Goldilocks was like an old 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:28.120 woman and the bears like catch her and like try 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.120 and like drown her and burn her and all these 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:32.800 other things. And then I think she still slips out 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.039 the window. But yeah, so at some point she switched 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:39.039 from like horrible old lady burglar to like shift her. Yeah, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.880 she was a shape shifter, that was it. But to 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.240 this young innocent that we would all be really upset 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.800 about if the bear's mauld right. Yeah, it becomes more 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.279 of an innocent thing. And in a way, it's like, 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.159 if you're thinking of in cosmological terms, it's like, which 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.880 which model are humans? Are we the innocent child stumbling 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.279 through the universe or the um the nasty old woman 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:01.680 who comes in to steal things? I don't know, or 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.680 are we the bears? Maybe we're the bears? Um? Of course, 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.560 the whole thing is she ends up finding the porridge 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:09.880 that's just right, the bed that's just right, the chair 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:11.920 that's just right, because the other options are either you know, 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.960 too big or too small, too cold or too hot. 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.000 And if you look at our solar system you can 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.880 identify a similar situation with some of the inner planets. 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:25.560 Look at Venus, Earth and Mars. Venus, Uh, the atmosphere 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.560 is too thick, too dense, it's insane pressure crushed like 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.440 a grape, and it's too hot. Go over to Mars. 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:35.480 Not enough atmosphere, and you'll freeze to death. If you 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.000 happen to land on Earth, though, you'll find everything is 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.960 just right. We have thriving life everywhere because conditions are 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.200 fine for that to happen right Florida. It's sunny all 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.040 year long, right, and and there are a number of 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.720 different The thing that really gives people thinking is that 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.760 there are a number of different um situations that line 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:58.120 up just so you know, um, it's uh, you know, 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:00.280 it's like when when you start thinking about like if 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.880 my mom and dad hadn't met and you know then 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:05.240 and and hooked up, I wouldn't be here today. And 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.840 then if you started, you know, uh, pointing out other 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.080 things about it, like well, if my dad hadn't gone 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:11.920 to this school, he wouldn't have met her. And if 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.720 my mom, you know, had done such and such, then 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:16.920 she wouldn't have been you know, they're all these different factors. 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:18.520 You can start laying out right, and you can even 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:20.840 kind of go deeper back and say, if my great 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.640 grandfather hadn't dodged that straight bullet, or you know, his 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.440 grandfather hadn't done this, and then you can sort of 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.400 expand out from there and start to apply this to 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.680 the universe. Right, Like I'm just to run through some 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.920 of the things about Earth. Uh, the temperature is just 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.120 right for the to be liquid water. We have a 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.520 large enough moon to give us climate stability. The Sun 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:47.040 is stable and isn't you know, expanding and destroying us anything. 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.479 And compared to other suns, it's a pretty stable sun. Um. 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.160 It's uh, we have just the right core um only 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.439 of the inner planet's only Mercury and Earth have a 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.200 liquid solid core that creates this uh this um uh 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.760 this dynamo effect that produces an electromagnetic shield to that 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:06.720 ends up protecting us from a lot of the harmful 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.960 effects of the Sun and uh and yeah, so we 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.240 just happened to have that going for us. Uh. And 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.360 then we have the right neighbors, Jupiter shields Earth from 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.280 a lot of the stellar bombardment we'd end up suffering 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.880 through otherwise and would have very likely um um ended 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:23.679 um evolution before it really got rolling at some point, right. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.320 So yeah, all these things are you know, situations where 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:27.760 it's like, oh, if it wasn't for that, would we 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.200 be here? Maybe not? So yeah, you on this that's 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.960 forty seven billion years in the making, about a couple 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.760 million years ago we came into existence or evolved in 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:41.040 to to what we are today. So it is pretty 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.440 amazing when you stop and think, um, when you clear 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.800 that grocery list out of your head or or whatever 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.280 else is popping up on your computer to distract you 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.560 to think, again, why am I here? Why I'm Why 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.320 are we here in this particular universe? Are we unique? 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.480 Are there other universes out there? Their other means? How 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.800 does how is that working? And so I think that's 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.839 why the Goldilocks principle is so very interesting because it's 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:14.280 it's not um. It's not a sort of uh, mathematical 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.199 proof in the sense that we have a theory um 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:21.000 that we can say, Okay, we have this overwhelming theory 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.640 and it's gonna it's gonna tell us exactly why we exist, 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:28.920 but it does lend some credence to the anthropic principle. 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:34.440 And the anthropic principle is basically saying, to paraphrase Stephen Hawking, 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:38.839 that things are as they are because we are, which 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:44.600 sounds a lot like dey card part of my frolish, 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.760 which would be I think therefore I am Yeah. So 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:55.000 you have this principle which a lot of scientists, astrophysicists, theologians, 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:59.880 you name it, have seized on to try to explain 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.760 why we are able to hang out here in this 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:08.839 universe observe the fact that we're here and the fact 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:10.679 that we're supported by it. Yeah, and then you have 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.439 you have the Commernican principle in the background the whole time, 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.280 reminding you that there's nothing special about about Earth, nothing 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.520 special about humanity. So when you look at the at 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:20.600 everything being just right on the Earth, you know, it 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:22.920 leads to theories. You know, um that a lot of 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.520 people hold about there being other planets where life could 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.640 could potentially evolve because there's nothing nothing special about Earth, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.040 then it couldn't be the only one, right, right, right, 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:37.160 So the multiple universes, and of course you can get 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.360 really deep into this and say there are parallel universes, 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.280 there's another universe where you and I are talking in 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.120 a completely different place right now, although maybe we're talking backwards, 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:47.839 I don't know. Yeah, yeah, that you get into the 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.160 whole area of like it's like a Library of Babbel 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.280 kind of situation where all possible universes exist with all 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:56.760 possible variations and outcomes. Yeah, one way we're having a 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:01.640 different conversation, one where like we all ball caps, one 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.160 where our son was kind of a jerk and blew 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.680 up before we could evolve, right, Yeah, Yeah, because if 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.360 we're just gonna be anthropic principle, and again, anthropic means 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.920 of or relating to human beings or the period of 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:19.320 their existence on Earth. Um, there are several um anthropic coincidences. 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.400 They're kind of like those the list of things that 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.080 we lined up for the planet, you can make a 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.320 similar list for the cosmos itself. They just tend to 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.199 be a little more complex. Like uh, and I'm not 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.120 gonna go into too much depth here because he's getting 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.000 kind of crazy. But when you compare the electromatic force 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.840 to gravity, we find that electromagnetism is thirty times stronger. 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.880 And that's fortunate because if the two powers were more 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.320 evenly matched, stars wouldn't burn long enough for life to 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.760 develop on an orbiting planet. So uh, and they're all 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.120 you know, things of that nature where if like numbers 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:53.280 were a little different, if the dye roll you know, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.520 from the Big Bang were had come out just just 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:01.520 slightly skewed, then nothing might have nothing could exist or 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.040 or things would exist in a vastly different shape than 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.319 they are now. So that's I think why anthropic principle 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.160 is so intriguing, because it does give us a way 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.600 to say, okay, we are in this universe, and perhaps 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:22.360 everything isn't happening by chance. Right. The problem with this 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.120 is that when we when we traps out of the 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.880 area of chance, we start to look for some sort 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:35.640 of theory. I'm gonna go ahead and say it's super 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.800 being God Creator, and that's what the anthropic principles sort 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.480 of points to when you think about it. Yeah, and 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:44.360 a lot of people end up using it as an 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:48.080 argument for um, you know, um, intelligent design and things 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.480 of that nature and the existence of God and other 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:56.520 things that can't actually you know, actually be proved you know, scientifically, um. 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.719 And a lot of this also, this comes from a 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.560 guy named brand and Carter was the guy who initially 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:06.199 sort of kicked off out there. Yeah, and he actually 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.120 I believed that he just put out two of these 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.959 two variations on the theory, weak anthropic principle and strong 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.520 anthropic principle. And if the cool kids tend to offense, 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.000 just call it ap franthropic principle, or if you're talking 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.600 about weakenthropic principle, you call it like WAP. I guess right, 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.120 that is so wa yeah, or like they said, like 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.200 WAP is lack right. If they don't like it kids 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:33.400 these days, But weekend thropic principle is probably my favorite 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.120 because it's just so simple and it doesn't overthink itself. 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.760 It's actually kind of elegant. Basically, Carter just pointed out 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.400 that if our universe weren't hospitable to life, then we 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.040 wouldn't be here to think about it being hospitable to life. 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.840 That's right. It's like if your mom and dad hadn't 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.200 hooked up, Yeah, you wouldn't exist. You wouldn't be here 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.440 to think about the fact that you exist. So it's 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:57.520 I love it because it's kind of like that. The 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.680 weekendthropic principle is kind of like an end of the argument, 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.160 and it's elf it's kind of like, well, stop worrying 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.400 about it, because it's you know, the answer is in 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:09.280 the question. Yeah, yeah, I I think, therefore I am 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.880 and quit thinking yeah yeah, And it's a it's an 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.800 unconditional truth. So yeah, you're right. It's it's very simple 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.920 in that way, and it's very comforting. And then you 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.920 have a strong anthropic principle, right, So that's basically saying, 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.400 because we live in a universe that supports life, only 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:31.560 life supporting the universes exists. Essentially, it's creating the observer. Yeah, 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:33.760 it's kind of like if you were inside, you know, 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:35.680 you're hanging out in your living room. You've never been 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.320 outside of your living room, and you know, she had 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.800 a fireplace and you and if you went with the theory, 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.880 maybe the world. I guess all houses have fireplaces, you know, 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.440 because there's nothing unique about this one, because it's the 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.440 only thing that you know, right, Or on a more 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.600 like true level, you could be like, this room has 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.240 a roof. I guess all living rooms have roofs to them, 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.040 you know. So I guess that shows where this principle 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.560 has a bit of weakness is that you can't If 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:05.120 you can't observed beyond your own understanding, then how can 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:10.880 you presuppose that there are other universes that exist out there? 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.880 If you can't see it, then how do you know, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:15.480 Because if you could see it, it it would be part 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.440 of your universe. Yeah, it's like, on one level, we 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:23.600 have to use our our selves in our world and 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.160 our view of the world as the model upon which 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.160 to base our theories and all, you know, but that 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.880 that can also develop certain problems, right, And then the 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.160 cool thing about science, I think is that we could. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:34.880 We have our five senses and we rely on that, 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.280 but science sort of uh takes up where our five 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:43.160 senses peter out. You know, Um, those are five senses 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.840 fail us. They do not always um accurate. Um. Our 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.320 instinct isn't always accurate. So we have science, you have 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.600 mathematicians who are creating those models based on what we 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.840 know and then sort of trying to predict these other 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:04.520 um thoughts. Universes constructs that we can try to get 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.080 our heads around. And so I think that's why this 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.400 the anthropic principle is so important, because that's the principle 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.800 that is being used in m theory or string theory, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:22.480 which presupposes that these other universes exist um. And that's 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:27.080 also it's Achilles heal, because well, hey, you've got this 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.720 sort of stand in theory the anthropic principles saying well, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.080 if we can observe this, then we know we're in it, 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:38.240 and there's the possibility of other universes just like ourselves existing. 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.040 And yet we cannot bear this out. We cannot, we 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.040 can we can't ring up the little large Hadron collider 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.439 and say hey, can you bear this out first? Simply 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.920 because we don't have the technology yet to prove it out. 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.919 And that's not true of other theories that we have 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.080 been able to use technology to to bear out the 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.880 results and say, ah, yes, this, this, um, this mathematic 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.440 prediction was correct. Yeah. I think the other day when 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.960 we're talking about this, you you pointed out that some 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.159 of these things are just kind of a kind of 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:12.080 like place holders for actual answers. They're like scientific placeholders 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.320 for you know. Um. And the other interesting thing about 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:19.760 anthropic principle is that people kind of take take it 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.560 and spin off their own like variation of the anthropic principle, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:28.359 and sometimes uh, you know, mind blowing or just crazy directions, 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:32.000 you know. Um, there are like thirty album I think 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.399 based on one estimate I read, but like the participatory 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.879 anthropic principles pretty wild, did you? Is that the quantum 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.439 space one? Yeah, well this is the one that spins 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.240 off from some some stuff like the the Copenhagen interpretation 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.720 of quantum mechanics and the whole idea of like things 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.520 not being actualized until they're observed and measured, you know, yeah, right, 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.920 and not and not actually even acting like we think 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.920 they act simply because at this one state it happened 0:18:59.920 --> 0:19:02.159 to be here. In other words, you can't predict the 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.320 results every single time, and you know, not to get 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:10.199 into quarks. Um, I don't think anybody wants us to 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:14.200 go that deep, but sorry, go ahead. No, it's just like, basically, 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.640 the the idea is that only universes that have an 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.159 observers in them to observe it exists. It's kind of like, 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:20.800 you know, kind of a tree falls in the forest 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.560 kind of thing. In a weird way. It's like like 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.879 the universe. The universe can only exist if there's somebody 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.040 there to observe it and give it form. In a way, 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:46.160 it's kind of crazy right without the observer. Yeah, well 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:51.199 I was thinking about this too. Um, you've got Stephen Hawking, 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.480 who obviously some people think he is God and has 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.520 created the universes and that maybe we don't know. Um, 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:01.240 we don't have a mathematical constructor hear that up. But 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.040 we do have John Horgan, who was the former Scientific 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:09.080 American editor who actually took him to task. I thought 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:14.000 that was, Um, he has some big spheres for doing that. Yeah, 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.800 it's kind of it's always a brave move when you 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.560 go after go after Hawking or or you know, pick 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.800 at something. He said, yeah, yeah. I was like, wow, dude, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.120 I hope that you have bulletproof glass there. Um, well, 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:30.760 not really, I don't think that astrophysists are gonna Hawking 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:35.879 was packing. I was thinking more of his followers, but 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.439 but now I think they're probably kind and gentle souls. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.399 But basically what he said is, Okay, you've got Hawking 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:48.480 wanting to forward this idea of a theory of everything 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:53.280 too for short and uh in particular m theory, which 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.239 is an extension of string theory. Just if you look 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:00.520 at them, it's membranes instead of strings. And Hawking is 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:02.480 actually saying, you know what, we need to use the 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.960 anthropic principle in order to help bear this theory out. 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:10.440 And Horgan's basically saying, hey, there's there's a real problem 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.159 with us. We can't that the anthropic is something that 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:18.800 we can't actually um say that there's any data to 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.119 to bear it out, but we don't have the technology 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:25.640 and to to do this. And essentially, and here's where 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.119 the it's kind of the beach slap. It's cosmology's version 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:33.199 of creationism. And he's loving that against Hawking and I 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:37.080 think you know, you know, this is not my wheelhouse, 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:38.880 but do you have to say, I think that there's 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:43.040 a point with us and you can't help but see 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.040 where you'd want to have a theory of everything, where 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.760 you want to have something unifying saying finally, we have 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:52.040 reached the end of meaning. We understand exactly why we're 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.719 all hanging out here in this podcast booth at this 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:59.080 very moment um. But we just we're limited where you know, 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:03.080 language fails us as well. We can't actually describe where 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:07.640 we're at at this point of revolution cognitive closure at 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.800 some point, and it's just only so much we can do. Yeah, yeah, 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.080 cogniti closure. I like that. Yeah. And then there's another 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.800 aspect of this UM which is called carbon chauvinism. Yeah, 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:21.000 this one is really cool, and it's just basically the 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:24.840