WEBVTT - From the Vault: Horror Vacui, Part 1 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:07.920 Hey, you welcome to Stuff to blow your mind. My 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:09.280 name is Robert Lamb. 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.119 And I am Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. Time for 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:16.720 an episode from the Vault. This one originally published January seventeenth, 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.720 twenty twenty three, and it's the first part in our 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.799 series on horror vakue the fear of the Void. Hope 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:31.440 you enjoy. 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:37.360 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.600 Hey you welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:41.600 name is Robert. 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.040 Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we're going to 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.760 be starting up a series on the subject of horror VAKUI, 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.240 which can be translated directly as fear of the void, 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.240 but has also been paraphrased in the form of the 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:59.520 statement nature of horrors of vacuum. Now, I think this 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.680 is going to be a great subject for us because 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.240 this principle has facets that appear in art, psychology, and 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.920 all kinds of other domains. But it's often traced all 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.960 the way back in its origin to the scientific writings 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:16.880 of Aristotle in the fourth century BCE, though Aristotle did 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.480 not use exactly this phrase, of course, how could he. 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:23.399 It's Latin, but he did argue in his book on 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.480 Physics that the concept of a vacuum in nature was 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.959 implausible and in fact even worthy of ridicule. So this 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:36.559 occurs in Aristotle's famous Physics. This is book four, part eight, 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.920 though his attempted refutation of vacuum physics spans several sections. 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.520 I think it's like parts six through nine of the 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.640 book or so. And it's interesting that Aristotle does not 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:53.320 approach this subject from first principles, but instead he approaches 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:58.000 it by entering an ongoing debate among other philosophers where 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.720 there's a camp arguing against the existence of empty space, 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.520 and that apparently contains figures like Enexagoras, and then there's 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.200 a camp that argues for the existence of empty space, 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.280 and that contains the Pythagorean school and others. So, in 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.160 trying to stake his own claim in this controversy, Aristotle 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.160 makes the argument that the existence of empty space is 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.200 logically incoherent, and this leads to a harsh joke at 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:27.160 the expense of space itself. He writes, but even if 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.840 we consider it on its own merits, the so called 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:34.960 vacuum will be found to be really vacuous. Ah, that 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.240 might be funny or in ancient Greek. I'm not sure. 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:40.960 So I think we'll come back specifically to the history 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.760 of horror vacui in physics in a subsequent part in 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.360 this series. But I thought this was a good place 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.360 to start because a lot of people seem to trace 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.880 this general idea back to Aristotle, and they often identify 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.919 him as sort of the grandfather of this tradition of 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:02.480 being intolerant of empty space or of the very idea 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:03.400 of emptiness. 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.040 Yeah, and just the whole idea that nature abhors a 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.680 vacuum like it's You could also kind of translate it as, hey, 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.119 anytime there's a place where stuff isn't but stuff could be, well, 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.840 guess where you're can eventually find stuff right there, and 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.240 you know you could. You can apply that to economics, 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.919 you can apply it to evolution because for the most part, 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.600 like various interpretations of that hold very true. 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.799 Yeah, And of course there are tons of examples in 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.440 physics where you can identify this sort of phenomenonomy. If, 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:40.480 for example, entropy particle entropy. If you take a rectangular 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.120 container and half of it is filled with gas and 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.840 the other half has no gas in it. If you 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.080 just like let it go on its own and do 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.880 nothing to it, eventually the gas will even out in 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:55.120 distribution and fill the entire container. That something about nature 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:59.200 seems to reject that that arbitrary starting point of division 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.480 and tends to just have everything spread out even out. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.840 It doesn't want to let that emptiness remain. 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.680 Yeah, or on the other end of the spectrum, if 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.840 you have an empty drawer or cabinet in your kitchen, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.880 see how long that lasts. Because eventually, eventually something's going 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:20.520 to come along and it's going to be the perfect 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:21.400 place to stick it. 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.159 Right. But one big place where horror vakui has been 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.440 recognized throughout the years is in the world. 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.080 Of art, that's right. Yeah, And in this we get 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.800 into we have this softer treatment of the vacuum of 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.360 empty spaces and also a lot of i think ultimately 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.600 discussions or arguments over what constitutes an empty space and 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:48.279 so forth. But yeah, within the worlds of art and design, 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.960 horror vacuie basically comes down to a tendency to fill 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.719 blank spaces instead of leaving them empty. I've also seen 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:01.880 it argued as a kind of maximal as opposing minimalism. 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.920 So you know, it's like like I'm gonna I'm gonna 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:06.800 create this painting or you know, think of it. I 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.200 guess from a like like a street art graffiti kind 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.960 of standpoint. What am I going to paint on this wall? 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:14.760 And how much of this wall am I going to paint? Well, 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:16.520 I'm going to paint all of it, and I'm going 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.560 to fill it with with just so many things? Or 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:21.600 are you is it going to be mostly sort of 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.599 a blank canvas drawing your attention to the one I 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.240 don't know songbird that you've created at the middle of 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.240 this street canvas. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:30.120 Yeah. 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.040 Now, for my own part, and I imagine everyone out 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.040 there has some version of this, But for my own part, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.480 my mind quickly goes to a few different handy examples. 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.560 Some of my favorite artists do seem to abhor the 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:45.479 vacuum on some level. For instance, I've long been a 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.640 fan of the dark surrealism of Irving Norman, and his 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:55.560 work tended to consist of very complex, crowded, dynamic expanses 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.240 that had a lot of like urban and industrial energy 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.960 to them, And so it has a lot of chaos, 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:04.600 It has a lot of soullessness, and a lot of 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.120 it is about sort of capturing the spirit as he 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:08.720 saw it of the modern world. 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.080 Oh, that's interesting that the connection to modernity, because I 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.520 think a lot of people over the years have made 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:19.080 this argument that something about how culture changes over time, 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.120 maybe a lot of this is driven by technology, results 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:28.480 in the constant sort of ingress of stuff into more 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:34.120 and more previously unfilled spaces of your attentional life. So 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.480 whereas life used to, at least according to this argument, 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.800 involve a lot more kind of boredom and idleness and 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.560 sort of sitting around with your own thoughts, not having 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:48.640 anything to do, and things like that, now there's just 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.760 like always something to occupy you and occupy your attention. 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.480 Yeah, and his works in particular, they do have this 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.080 feeling too them the one I included for you to 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.400 look at here, and certainly listeners can look this piece 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.640 up as well. This is war and Peace. It's a triptych. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:05.840 And this is the piece that I've gotten to see 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.720 in person that was on display in San Francisco at 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.400 least for a while. Big piece, and a piece like 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.920 this is great to see in person as well because 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.360 you get to sort of get a little closer and 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.760 check out some of the many details that make it up. 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.160 For instance, one of the pieces here, you see all 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:26.880 these buildings in it, like a surrealistic view of skyscrapers, 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.880 in each little window has somebody inside with like some 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:35.000 sort of pained or horrific or bored expression on their face. 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.120 So yeah, he really seems to fill every available space 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.080 with some sort of detail. Now, there are plenty of 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.840 older artists that come to mind, you know, pre modern 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:51.400 artist like Hieronymous Bosch comes to mind, Peter Brugle the Elder. 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.200 Another contemporary example that I instantly think of would be 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:59.680 the visionary art of Alex Gray, you know, very psychedelic, 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.480 but also just filled with flow and color, and there's 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.600 just this sense of every available space has been sort 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:11.400 of engulfed by energies that cannot normally be viewed with 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:12.320 the naked eye. 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.320 Yeah, now you raise Hieronymous Bosh, and that really got 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.200 my gears cranking, because when it comes to horror, Vacui 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.920 and Bosh. I could be wrong, but I sense a 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:29.520 trend in his religious paintings where there's an association of 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:35.959 busyness with bad things, with chaos and sin, whereas empty 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:40.319 space seems to be more associated with order and godliness 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:45.240 and righteousness. So Hell is bustling and full and just 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.480 teeming with activity, whereas Heaven, or maybe the garden at 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.000 Eden before the Fall, is orderly and clean and has 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.440 plenty of empty space, plenty of floor space. One example, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.960 of course, I think of here is the triptych The 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.840 Last Judgment, where if you see, you know, the Garden 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:06.120 of Eden, apparently a time before sin, there's just a 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.960 lot of kind of empty ground. There's like not a 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.920 lot going on. There's there's plenty of expanses that have 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.680 yet to be filled with anything. And also if you 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.320 look at the middle panel of the triptych, there is 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.520 war and chaos and suffering and disease and violence and 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.480 stuff taking place down on Earth, and it's a very 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.000 busy scene. But up above you see Christ and the 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.600 angels and everything's very clean, and there's like not a 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:31.680 whole lot going on. There's a lot of empty space 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:32.320 up in the sky. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:34.319 Yeah, this is a great point. 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:36.199 So in a way I wonder if that's kind of 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.920 an inverse horror vacuee, where you know that like the 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:44.319 the vakue is actually the indicator of goodness and orderliness, 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.600 and you know, when there's too much stuff going on, 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.840 that's a sign that something has gone wrong, that order 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.959 has broken down. But clearly this is not a universal 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.920 association within art or even within religious art. For example, 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.880 Dante's Paradiso seems to be anything but empty. You know, 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:07.400 the heavens in that vision are crammed with overwhelming, incomprehensibly 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.079 busy stimuli. There's you know, a lot of things where 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.840 He's just like, there was so much I couldn't understand 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.040 what I was looking at. And in some versions of 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:20.680 gnosticism also the sort of ultimate ideal plane of reality 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:25.319 and the sum of all divine potential is called the pleroma, 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:29.920 which in Greek means fullness, the opposite of emptiness or void. 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:34.480 Your example of here from the last judgment, this made 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.760 me think about okay, and at least in the middle 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.400 part of it, you're talking about, you know, here we 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.439 have a Christ appearing in the sky and everything's a 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.480 little more open, and we see the blue and ultimately 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:50.400 the white of naked sky there. And I was comparing 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.199 this to some other words that I'll mention in a second, 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.040 but it made me wonder like, when is the sky 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.880 full and when is the sky empty? Because it seems 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.160 like on some level, a blue or white sky of 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.120 painting is certainly a different animal compared to say, a 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.600 red sky, in the same way that the standard wall 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.600 color for a museum is usually, at least today not 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.720 black or red, but a nice white or a muted gray. 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.840 But on the other hand, like a night sky is 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.080 not necessarily like the darkness of space is not necessarily 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:26.240 understood to be full, but I guess it could be 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.000 depending on how you look in it's certainly full of. 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.560 Stars, yeah, and specifically, I mean the skies are, Yeah, 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.000 they're rendered in very different ways. I mean sometimes the 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.960 stars themselves are very busy, I think of I guess 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.000 this is obvious to go to. But the starry night. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.760 Yeah, yeah. And as far as Dante goes, I instantly 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:49.080 thought back to Gustav Doreys later much later illustrations of 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.800 the Divine Comedy, And sometimes those do and sometimes they 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.800 don't match up with this general idea. Like there's one 0:11:55.960 --> 0:12:02.480 particularly famous image from Dore's illustrations where we see see 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.920 Dante and his guy who's his guide in Paradiso. 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.959 It's in the Paradiso, it's it's Beatrice. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.440 Yes, Beatrice, Yes, that's right. So it's it's Dante and Beatrice, 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.800 and here in front of them is just this incomprehensible uh. 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.800 And it's almost like the eye of Sauron with with 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.000 just multitudes of swirling angelic beings all around it. 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.199 Yeah, so you're looking into just a tunnel made of 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.079 like nanotechnology, except it's it's all angel wings. 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.120 Yeah. And then there's another one of Dore's illustrations where 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.240 we see Dante and be standing here on a cloud 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.640 and we see multiple rings of angels, and certainly there 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.960 are a lot of angels in each ring, but there's 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.840 a lot more open space, particularly above them, and there's 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:49.480 an openness to that image that you don't see in 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.040 a lot of the Dore illustrations of any of the 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.320 three realms of the Divine Comedy. 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.439 Agreed, And so that that division seems to be a 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.320 you know, whether you want to represent beauty and holiness 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.880 as a kind of incredibly busy phenomenon or as something 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.120 with a lot of empty space in it. I don't 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.839 see an overwhelming trend one way or the other. I mean, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.760 it seems like a sort of a pretty evenly divided 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.600 issue of preference, because I think of tons of paintings 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.839 from all throughout history and all throughout different cultures where 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.800 empty space is clearly the thing that makes the painting 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.360 so beautiful or the art so beautiful. One that came 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.560 to my mind while we were getting ready for this 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.840 episode was there's a Chinese work of art from I 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.559 think the thirteenth century called on a Mountain Path in 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.920 Spring by Ma Yuan. Do you know that one? 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.000 Rob, I have just pulled it up in front of me. Oh, yeah, 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.200 this is beautiful. I'm not familiar with this space. 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.680 Yeah. One thing I really like about it, so to 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.280 try to describe it, It shows like a man on a 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.959 path and there are sort of like some trees drooping 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.800 over around him, and there's a bird in flight up 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.080 ahead of him, and you see the the ridges of 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.200 some mountains in the background in one half of the painting. 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.560 But one thing I really love about this painting is 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.880 that essentially only half of it is filled in. So 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.400 behind the man you see the outlines of all these forms. 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.600 There are tree trunks, and there's the path. You see 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.600 little you know, ridges and indentations in the ground and 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.120 tree roots and shrubs, and you see the mountains in 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.880 the background, and then in the other half of the painting, 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.800 essentially all the forms just disappear and it's almost entirely 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.080 empty space except for a little suggestion of the path 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.560 continuing along on the ground and a bird. 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:40.200 H Yeah. Yeah, it's a beautiful piece, you know. And 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.000 I also want to mention that many of the artists 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:44.680 that one might point to and say, Okay, this is 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:49.560 someone who definitely abhors the vacuum. They're definitely a maximalist. 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.360 You can also find plenty of examples where they play 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:54.720 with opening things up a little bit. Like even just 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.320 looking back through some of Irving Norman's works, like there 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:02.800 are some pieces where have fairly sizable expanses of say sky, 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.480 sometimes blue sky, other times extremely blood red skies, but 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:08.479 sky nonetheless. 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:13.160 Mm hmm. I don't know what this is. So my ruined, 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.600 vulgar mind looks at one of these paintings, the one 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.240 with the red sky, and I just think hell razor two. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.520 Yeah, I mean it, it is a hellish image. It 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:26.400 does have some of those vibes to it, for sure. 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:28.680 I think it's that the red sky and then the 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:30.880 sort of like maze of walls beneath that. 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.640 Yeah. Yeah, this one is called war Wounded Ends. That's 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.080 another one of my favorite pieces by Irving Norman. 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.560 It is beautiful. I apologize for the Barker comparison. 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:53.280 No, no, no, I mean I think it's apt. I 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.160 mentioned the walls of a museum earlier because I think 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.560 this is also key as well, because when you think 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:05.800 of gallery walls and even picture frames in a modern sense, 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.080 we tend to think of a very minimalist features. Right. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.560 The trend nowadays at least, is, of course, the display 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.720 works of art in unassuming frames on largely blank walls, 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.040 with at least some amount of space between each work, 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.000 sort to allow each work a little room to breathe. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:25.680 But this was of course not always the fashion, and 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.920 isn't always the fashion. Maximalist and minimalist approaches are just 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.920 trends and ensure that the complex wallpaper may be pulled 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.400 away in the geometric wall to wall carpeting may be 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.880 ripped up from space, but given enough time, these things 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.880 may come back into fashion again and you'll get even 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:48.760 crazier wallpaper plastered back up and even more complex carpet 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.400 installed Wallda wall. But there are some interesting properties involved, 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.840 like what does it do when you have something worth 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:58.520 looking at in the midst of white space? You know, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.240 what does emptiness? What does the void do? And there's 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:06.040 an offsded quote from art historian Ernst Gombrich who of 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.440 nineteen oh nine through two thousand and one, in which 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.080 he stated, quote, the richer the elements of the frame, 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.960 the more the center will gain in dignity. I believe 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.879 this is a part of his theory of perception, and 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.639 I think it's a pretty insightful statement, and we can 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.040 apply it to the blank walls behind a canvas, to 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.960 the unassuming picture frame, or even elements within a given 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:32.159 work where the busy aspects of a piece focus our 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.760 attention towards something more open, like for instance, Christ floating 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.920 in the sky above said this otherwise chaotic scene and 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:41.640 a painting by Bosh. 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.199 Oh, that's kind of interesting. So that might explain the 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:48.879 popularity of these very ornate, highly textured you know, frames 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.399 around paintings with all these ridges and swirls and so forth. 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.840 Yeah, and certainly you will often encounter, even in modern 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.840 museums sometimes these older pieces that are still in very 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.879 ornate frames, And I'm always interested in that because, I 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:05.680 guess because it kind of throws me for a curve 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:10.080 comparing it to more modern works and modern framing. And 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.080 then you'll encounter this piece that have some sort of 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.320 a picture frame that I mean could arguably be seen 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.960 as distracting from the piece itself, but maybe not maybe 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:23.639 guiding you in now. As far as the term horror 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:28.280 evacue goes, depending on tastes and trends, you'll see it 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.399 in the art world, sometimes invoked as praise, other times 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:36.439 invoked as criticism. Take the often busy art of Jackson 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.160 Pollock of nineteen twelve through nineteen fifty six. It's kind 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.439 of a prime example of this duality. Even though not 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:47.560 all of his works abhor the vacuum, You'll you'll find 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.040 a little space in some of his pieces, and I 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.600 think maybe those are the ones that I may be 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:53.600 a little more drawn to. 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.240 Oh, but you mean that like critics had described it 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:01.040 in terms of horror vakue, both positively and negatively, like 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.280 this is good because it sates my horror vakuy, or 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.720 this is bad because it's just a product of horror vacuy. 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.399 Yeah. Yeah, And I think in the case of Pollock, 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:14.600 and people are more familiar with art criticism out there 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:16.600 than they can chime in on this. But it seems 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.280 like you see it invoked more as a criticism, you know, 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.840 almost like, well, this clearly this artist is afraid of 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.960 the vacuum. Otherwise they would have given us a little 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.480 more space. But I don't know, even the really busy 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.719 Jackson Pollock pieces, which I think I have also had 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.000 the chance to see in person, Some of these pieces, 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.119 like they're really neat to see in person, because you 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.080 do get it's a similar situation. You can take it 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:41.159 all in, but you can step a little closer and 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.160 sort of look at just some of the closer details, 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:45.200 and it's really enthralling. 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:45.960 Now. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.840 The term has also been used to describe cultural artistic traditions. 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.720 I've seen it used to describe the work of the 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.680 ancient Egyptians, as well as the trend in Islamic art 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:02.240 towards the expansive use of geometric patterns. Apparently, however, the 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:06.480 originator of the term in art criticism itself was Italian 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.960 born art and literature critic Mario Praz who lived eighteen 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:13.640 ninety six through nineteen eighty two, who used it mostly 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:18.480 to slam the cluttered visual interior design one sees particularly 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:25.360 in Victorian households. Victorian design. Joe I included a sort 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:30.480 of stereotypical image of a rich Victorian sitting room here, 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.440 and I think it raises the question is this too 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:37.800 busy or is this just comfy? Is this like hoarded 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.960 fancy items or is this somebody who wanted to surround 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.720 themselves with the things they like and sort of warm 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.719 themselves in the glow of those things. 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.800 So the critical idea here could be, yeah, like is 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:54.199 there too much patterned wallpaper, too much patterned upholstery on 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.479 the furniture, too many little doodads all over the place. 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.640 It's just the room is too busy. You should live 0:20:59.680 --> 0:20:59.800 in a. 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.760 Yeah. And I guess one of the things that really 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:06.679 comes out in thinking about in terms of art is, 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:12.439 of course art criticism is generally highly subjective, and so 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.560 also is the use of a term like horror of 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.719 vacalie in terms of art and design or any kind 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.560 of creative endeavor, and in film is not immune to this. 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:25.800 I was really excited by this because I was looking 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.399 around for I don't think I was even particularly looking 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.280 for something about film, but I ran across discussion of 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:39.879 horror vacalie and Jallo films. Yes, Fangoria Magazines, Alexandra Heller 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.800 Nicholas has written film criticism discussing the subject of horror, 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:49.040 vacualie and Jallo films. The book in question, which I 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:51.000 haven't had time to read in full yet, but for 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:54.000 whatever read so far, is quite good. It's the Jallo 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:57.520 canvas art excess and horror cinema. 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:01.520 SHALLO is absolutely a genre of SSS, and that is 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:05.040 part of what makes it so enticing. Is it's just 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.879 unrestrained expressiveness and gaudiness. 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:14.640 Yeah, yeah, it's it's this of course, largely we're dealing 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:17.119 with the Tagan cinema here, though, though its influence becomes 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.200 such that it spills out into European cinema in general 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.720 and also has a big influence on the global slasher genre. 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:29.439 But yeah, it's generally stylish to some degree, gratuitous, you know, 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:34.280 it's flashy and so. Helen Nicholas here points out that naturally, 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:39.000 how EVACUI doesn't just apply to high brow art. She 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.360 cites the illustrations of Robert Crumb as an example, and 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.200 then points to a couple of other horror cinema examples, 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:51.640 possible examples such as Texas Chainsaw Massacre, particulars the original 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.880 Texas Chainsaw Massacre particularly. I believe she was pointing out 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:57.400 these some of these early scenes where we're not even 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:00.840 getting into the blood and the excess, but just like 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:04.760 scenes where the inside of the Chainsaw Massacre household is 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:08.040 just cluttered with all sorts of of you know, uncanny 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:12.679