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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease. I don't want to jinx it,

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Speaker 1: but is it really happening?

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Speaker 2: Is your Vanderslout set to make his way, handcuffed and

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Speaker 2: in lug shackles, of course, from Peru to the US,

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Speaker 2: specifically a federal court in Birmingham, Alabama. This after years

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Speaker 2: have passed since he murdered American sweetheart Natalie Holloway.

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Speaker 1: Is it really happening?

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Speaker 2: What if anything could throw a wrench in the works?

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Speaker 1: I mean, is he Grece? This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and

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Speaker 2: series exem one eleven. How did it all start art?

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Speaker 2: And how do we end up right here? Take a

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Speaker 2: listen to hour cut twenty one.

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Speaker 3: When I first got the call that Natalie was missing,

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Speaker 3: I was returning from Oh Gosh. I said it was

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Speaker 3: Memorial Day weekend. I was returning from my family's lake

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Speaker 3: home and got the call that's the dreaded phone call

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Speaker 3: that no parent ever expects to receive, and then traveling

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Speaker 3: somewhere outside of Memphis, Cinne food between Hot Springs and

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Speaker 3: coming into Birmingham, and the caller said that Natalie was

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Speaker 3: missing and that no one had seen her and that

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Speaker 3: she missed her flight.

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Speaker 4: And.

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Speaker 3: In that instant, I knew. I knew instantly this something

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Speaker 3: was terribly wrong, because that was just so out of

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Speaker 3: character for Natalie. She's just not going to oversleep, She's

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Speaker 3: not going to be, you know, lost somewhere in another room.

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Speaker 3: So I knew instantly that she was a being held

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Speaker 3: against her will, or something even more tragic had happened

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Speaker 3: to her.

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Speaker 2: A mother's intuition turns out to be true. Yet again.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing our friend Beth Holloway, Natalie's mother, speaking

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Speaker 2: about the moment she learned Natalie was missing. We all

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Speaker 2: believe at this point that Natalie was murdered the night

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Speaker 2: she went missing, at the hands of Judge's son, Yorn

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Speaker 2: vander Slut. So what does that have to do with today?

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to our seventy six our friends at CBS.

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Speaker 5: Eighteen year old Natalie Holloway disappeared while on a high

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Speaker 5: school class trip to Aruba. Holloway was last seen leaving

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Speaker 5: a bar with Yorn vander Slut and two other men.

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Speaker 5: No charges were ever filed in Holloway's disappearance. Her body

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Speaker 5: has never been recovered. Now, vander Slut could be extradited

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Speaker 5: to the United States. Vanderslute is in for route serving

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Speaker 5: a twenty eight year sentence for the twenty ten murder

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Speaker 5: of Peruvian student Stephanie Flores. Van der Slut is accused

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Speaker 5: of trying to extort a quarter of a million dollars

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Speaker 5: from Holloway's family, allegedly promising he would lead them to

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Speaker 5: her body. Prosecutors say vander Slute collected twenty five thousand

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Speaker 5: dollars in cash and then lied about where she was buried.

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Speaker 5: It's not clear when the extradition would take place. Vander

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Speaker 5: Slut's attorney says he plans to fight it. In his statement,

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Speaker 5: Natalie Holloway's mother thanks the President of Peru and US officials.

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Speaker 1: Oh blah blah blah. He's going to fight it.

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Speaker 2: This while yourn vander Slut is kicked back in a

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Speaker 2: Peruvian jail where he can have all the alcohol, all

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Speaker 2: the drugs, and all the sex he wants. He's even

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Speaker 2: father a child behind bars in Peru. Of course, he

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Speaker 2: doesn't want to leave. Why would he? Why would he

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Speaker 2: want to come to the US and facing justice? Joining

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Speaker 2: me an all star panel to make sense of what

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Speaker 2: we know?

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Speaker 1: Right now?

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Speaker 2: When is the ETA estimate time of arrival of Judge's son,

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Speaker 2: yourn Van der Slut. And remember, he didn't just murder

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Speaker 2: Natalie Holloway and drag her mother through hell and back,

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Speaker 2: even trying to extract a quarter of a million dollars

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Speaker 2: from Beth to tell Beth what quote really happened.

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Speaker 1: To Natalie and where Nalie's remains are.

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Speaker 2: But he actually took twenty five thousand dollars from her.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of a down payment on his big fat life.

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Speaker 2: He also murdered another young woman, Stephanie Tusciana Flores in Peru.

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Speaker 2: Now Peru got it right. They prosecuted him and put

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Speaker 2: him behind bars. Aruba never did a thing other than

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Speaker 2: try to thwart the search for Natalie. Again with me

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Speaker 2: an all star panel to make sense of what we

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Speaker 2: know right now. But first I want to go out

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Speaker 2: to Emmy Award winning investigative journalist on the story from

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Speaker 2: the very beginning, Art Harris, a longtime colleague and friend, Art,

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Speaker 2: can you believe you and I pounding the pavement when

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Speaker 2: Natalie goes missing, trying to find Natalie, trying to find

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Speaker 2: the truth, and here we are, We're this close to

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Speaker 2: getting your Vanderslot on American soil.

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Speaker 6: I'm in shock, Nancy. I mean, he has done everything

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Speaker 6: to dodge the bullet. And this is something that's between

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Speaker 6: all the jurisdictions. I never thought would see the day,

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Speaker 6: but apparently we have an extradition treaty with you with Peru,

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Speaker 6: and therefore they're going to try to honor it if

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Speaker 6: the Justice Department agrees this week to turn it to

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Speaker 6: return him in thirty days, within a certain period of time.

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Speaker 1: I mean the USDJ bringing him here.

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Speaker 2: And you know, you think our Harris that they would

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Speaker 2: without any hesitation. But when has a US government done

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Speaker 2: what we thought they were going to do.

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Speaker 1: When has that ever happened?

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Speaker 6: There are people languishing in jail across the sea that

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Speaker 6: deserves far better treatment than we're in Vandersloet, and you know,

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Speaker 6: we still haven't got any of them back. So it's

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Speaker 6: sort of a miracle that he even dancing his way

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Speaker 6: towards justice.

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Speaker 2: And I'll tell you the only reason he's made this far,

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Speaker 2: arn't Harris, is because Natalie's mother is still on it. Guys,

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Speaker 2: I want you to take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 2: at NBC.

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Speaker 7: Natalie Holloway's family hoping to finally get some justice for

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Speaker 7: the eighteen year old who was on a high school

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Speaker 7: graduation trip to Aruba when she vanished in two thousand

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Speaker 7: and five.

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Speaker 8: There is still no sign of American Natalie Holloway.

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Speaker 1: In the case.

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Speaker 7: It made headlines around the world. You're in Vanderslope, who

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Speaker 7: the least they left a club with Natalie the knight

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Speaker 7: she was last seen can now be extradited to the

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Speaker 7: US to face federal charges he tried to extort a

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Speaker 7: quarter million dollars from the teen's mother in twenty ten.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, arn't Harris, who's been on the search for an

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Speaker 2: Alley since she first went missing in Aruba?

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Speaker 1: Why now? And I mean I'm not kicking a gift

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Speaker 1: horse in the mouth.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious why now The wheels a justice somehow turned

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Speaker 2: slowly and finally clicked.

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Speaker 6: And it baffles me. I think, you know, you know,

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Speaker 6: her mother kept pushing, and the perusing government I think

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Speaker 6: is a little more open to getting him out of it.

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Speaker 6: Maybe just got tired of him getting making all the

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Speaker 6: headlines and drawing all the heat to their situation. I mean,

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Speaker 6: he's been a drug dealer in prison, living the highlights there,

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Speaker 6: and who knows what kind of message that sends to

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Speaker 6: people come to our country, We catch you, we bust

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Speaker 6: you like they did him in prison, and you know

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Speaker 6: you'll still get to live high on the hog.

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Speaker 1: You know at me so much.

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Speaker 2: Art Harris, when recently went back to Aruba with Beth

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Speaker 2: to try to uncover more information, to see if we could,

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Speaker 2: you know, shake the trees, see if anything fell, find

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Speaker 2: something new, dig up something old. We didn't know what

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Speaker 2: we were looking at. We just went looking. They treated

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Speaker 2: us like pariah. They threatened to arrest us, They followed

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Speaker 2: us all over the island, telled us like we were criminals.

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Speaker 2: And that was just a small taste of what Natalie's mother,

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Speaker 2: Beth endured when she was trying to find Natalie. To

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Speaker 2: start with, you were there, Could you just describe for

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Speaker 2: everybody the way Aruba treated Natalie's family and the Americans.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to find.

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Speaker 6: Natalie, and every turn they robust them. They would make

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Speaker 6: her sit in their leaving room, a small water room

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Speaker 6: in the police department. I don't think it had air

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Speaker 6: conditioning for hours on end, whole days while they supposedly

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Speaker 6: searched the files and went around and checking sources. They

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Speaker 6: did nothing, and they totally turned their back on her

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Speaker 6: and anyone interested in finding the truth because the truth

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Speaker 6: led back to, we believe total corruption. The father who

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Speaker 6: was a sitting local judge, he was the one who

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Speaker 6: went to bat for a son. And you know, this

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Speaker 6: was a kid who had money, he had connections, and

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Speaker 6: who knows what else he had on other people. But

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Speaker 6: they were treated like dirt like you were, Nancy, maybe

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Speaker 6: even worse.

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Speaker 2: But it was different for me or I didn't have

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Speaker 2: a dog in the fightin skin in the game. Cheryl

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Speaker 2: McCollum is with me right now, founded director of the

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Speaker 2: Cold Case Research Institute and star of a new hit

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Speaker 2: series which I'll calls his Own seven Podcasts. Cheryl, it

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Speaker 2: didn't bother me at all to have a little, let's

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Speaker 2: just say, altercation with the Rieman authorities. She Beth had

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Speaker 2: a lot on the line at the time she was

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Speaker 2: looking for her daughter. I didn't have that constraint when

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Speaker 2: they bothered us.

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Speaker 9: Correct And you know, I remember something Beth said at

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Speaker 9: the time. She said, if they locked me up, good,

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Speaker 9: I'll have their undivided attention for three days to talk

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Speaker 9: to them and ask him questions. So she was undeterred

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Speaker 9: as well, and she even told us at the time

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Speaker 9: it was a very different trip to Aruba for her.

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Speaker 9: For the first time going there, she felt empowered. So

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Speaker 9: it was nice to see that transformation in her that

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Speaker 9: she was no longer intimidated or afraid. She went there

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Speaker 9: with the full gusto arrest me, don't arrest me, banned

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Speaker 9: me from the holiday inn for life.

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Speaker 10: It's not going to stop her now.

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Speaker 2: We were not concerned about getting arrested. I can say

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Speaker 2: at least that much.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Another thing we got to keep in mind and let

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Speaker 2: me go out to special guest joining us IRV Brandt

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Speaker 2: Senior Inspector US Marshall Service all over the world. He

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Speaker 2: has worked for a Department of Justice in international affairs.

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Speaker 2: He's the author of solo Shot Curse of the Bluestone

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Speaker 2: on Amazon. He's also author of What's the name of

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Speaker 2: your other Jack solo book?

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Speaker 1: V Brant.

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Speaker 10: It's a Top of the World also, right, that's right.

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Speaker 2: So there's Top of the World and Curse of the

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Speaker 2: Bluestone both solo shot or Thank you for being with us,

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Speaker 2: and of course what a background you've got for writing

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Speaker 2: international books.

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Speaker 1: One thing I got to keep.

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Speaker 2: In mind is we're not dealing with Aruba, who they

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Speaker 2: are not worth assault that goes in their bread after

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Speaker 2: the way they treated Beth and then threatening us, telling us,

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Speaker 2: harassing us the whole time that we were there just

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Speaker 2: trying to talk to witnesses and return to locations and

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Speaker 2: look at it with a fresh eye.

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Speaker 1: It was insane.

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Speaker 2: But that said, Natalie was kidnapped and murdered on their

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Speaker 2: watch and they never lifted a finger. In fact, they

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Speaker 2: ate it and embedded your vandersloop getting away. They covered

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Speaker 2: for him and his father, the judge covered for him,

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Speaker 2: and they let it happen.

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Speaker 1: But we're not dealing with them. Now.

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Speaker 2: It's a whole another ballgame of Brant. It's Peru because

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Speaker 2: then he immediately goes to Peru five years to the

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Speaker 2: day murders Stephanie Flores. Now here's the thing I'm wondering.

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Speaker 2: If everyone's saying why now, I'm wondering about the statute

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Speaker 2: of limitations on fraud because in this case, he's not

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Speaker 2: charged with murder, He's charged with fraud. As a matter

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Speaker 2: of fact, before you get started, take a listen to

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Speaker 2: our friends at NBC.

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Speaker 7: Vendor Slope was never charged in Holloway's disappearance, but is

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Speaker 7: currently serving a twenty eight year sentence after pleading guilty

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Speaker 7: to killing Stephanie Flores in Peru on the five year

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Speaker 7: anniversary of Holloway's disappearance. That country's new president now agreeing

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Speaker 7: to the temporary extradition. Vanderslote is accused of offering to

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Speaker 7: tell Natalie's family how she died and where she was

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Speaker 7: buried in exchange for the money. Authorities say he was

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Speaker 7: given an initial payment of twenty five thousand.

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Speaker 8: He took her attorney to a site he said the

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Speaker 8: body was located out, but the body wasn't there, and

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Speaker 8: he subsequently acknowledged that In emails.

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Speaker 7: An attorney for Vanderslote tells the Associated Press they will

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Speaker 7: fight extradition.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is what we know.

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Speaker 2: We know that your vander Slut's lawyer wants to fight extradition.

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Speaker 2: It's my understanding her brandt that for federal fraud, the

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Speaker 2: statute is ten years. That could be why suddenly this

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Speaker 2: is coming to fruition now, that could be a reason.

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Speaker 10: What do you think, well, Nancy, Yes, it's my understanding

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Speaker 10: that once the charges have been indicted, the clock doesn't

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Speaker 10: begin because he's in custody in Peru. Yep, you're right,

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Speaker 10: And it's very much like when you have someone in

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Speaker 10: state custody and then the FEDS charge that person, indict

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Speaker 10: that person. Then you bring that person into court on

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Speaker 10: rit of habeas corpus and you're just borrowing them from

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Speaker 10: state custody, and as soon as the trial's over, you're

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Speaker 10: going to send them back to state custody. This is

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Speaker 10: the same thing, except it's with countries instead of jurisdictions.

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Speaker 2: So were you saying the US statute of limitations did

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Speaker 2: not start running when he was indicted on wirefraud and

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Speaker 2: extortion on Natalie's mom correct?

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Speaker 1: Okay, that makes perfect sense. So that leads me back

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Speaker 1: around to the question why now.

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Speaker 2: Now there's a lot of theory he's out there, but

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Speaker 2: I want to hear what they're telling us from wb

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Speaker 2: RC Fox six.

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Speaker 11: The first step will be an extradition hearing in Peru,

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Speaker 11: where your hand Vendor Schlute could try to fight this

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Speaker 11: even so town expects him to be back on US

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Speaker 11: soil within the month. Then Vendor Schlute will be brought

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Speaker 11: to the federal courthouse here in Birmingham where he will

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Speaker 11: be arraigned, assigned an attorney, and then held in custody

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Speaker 11: until his trial. That could be anywhere between two and

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Speaker 11: five months.

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Speaker 1: So, erv Brandt, how is it going to go down.

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Speaker 10: What's going to happen is since it's been improved, extradition

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Speaker 10: has been improved, that the proving government is willing to

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Speaker 10: turn over Vandislut for the US to prosecute him then

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Speaker 10: return him back to Peru.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Wait, so you're saying the extradition is a temporary

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Speaker 2: extradition in that Peru is going to allow the US

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Speaker 2: to pay for him to be extradited, brought to US

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Speaker 2: soil to be tried on wire fraud and extortion of

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Speaker 2: Natalie's mother, extortion, and then he will either do time

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Speaker 2: here or he will be sent back to Peru, and

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Speaker 2: that's between the two countries.

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Speaker 1: I predict he'll stay in the US.

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Speaker 10: No, Nancy, he won't stay in the US. He's going

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Speaker 10: to be returned after he is after his trial.

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Speaker 1: I mean, unless anything happens to him in jail.

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Speaker 10: Well, that's that's absolutely correl in.

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Speaker 1: The US and the federal penitentiary in.

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Speaker 10: The US, which could happen.

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Speaker 2: Hold on Earth, a power greater than yours is intervened.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, Cheryl McCollum. I mean, he's just just keep

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Speaker 2: trying to break in until your letter in, so he

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Speaker 2: just might as well letter in.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead.

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Speaker 9: Why do think it's important because he would understand we're

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Speaker 9: not going to get an itinerary. This thing is what

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Speaker 9: we call a bush ride.

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Speaker 12: He ain't even going to know when he's leaving. He's

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Speaker 12: all of a sudden he's going to be taken out

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Speaker 12: of his sales. The next thing he knows, he's going

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Speaker 12: to be on airplane, next thing he knows, who's going

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Speaker 12: to be in a jail.

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Speaker 9: Sale in Birmingham is going to be fast, and it's going.

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Speaker 2: To be.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, please can I break back in? Okay? I've conducted

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Speaker 10: in supervised thousands of international extraditions and I have also

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Speaker 10: done it from Peru. They're going to issue a surrender

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Speaker 10: warrant to the Office of International Affairs. Once International Affairs

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Speaker 10: receives that surrender warrant, typically they're going to do it

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Speaker 10: within thirty days.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on right there? Who issues who a surrender warrant?

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Speaker 10: The Ministry of Justice in Peru as agreed to the extradition, okay,

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Speaker 10: And once a surrender warrant for Vandslut is issued and

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Speaker 10: it's received by the DOJ Office of International Affairs, either

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Speaker 10: the United States Marshall Service or the FBI will make

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Speaker 10: arrangements to bring vand a sloop back to the United States. Now,

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Speaker 10: they're not going to announce it and they're not going

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Speaker 10: to give any details for security reasons, but it's been

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Speaker 10: my experience that they're can use. The FBI would either

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Speaker 10: use one of their jets or the US Marshal Service.

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Speaker 13: With charter a jet.

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Speaker 1: You mean a civilian jet, that's correct.

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Speaker 10: The US Marshall Service with charter a jet. The FBI

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Speaker 10: has jets. I don't know they have jets with that

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Speaker 10: kind of range from Peru to Birmingham. But since it's

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Speaker 10: a formal extradition, it's not an issue. You can transit,

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Speaker 10: you could refuel in other countries also US cities. Because

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Speaker 10: the venue has been established, you don't have to worry

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Speaker 10: about landing like let's say Miami and having to do

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Speaker 10: a rule forty hearing in Miami.

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Speaker 1: What's a real forty hearing. I'm a stay prosecutor.

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Speaker 2: I'm a gunslinger, I don't know all of your federal

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Speaker 2: numbers and rules.

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Speaker 10: It's an identity hearing that defendant's entitled to to show

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Speaker 10: the government to prove that he is the person, not

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Speaker 10: just the name, but the person himself. Be an extra didem.

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Speaker 10: But this wouldn't be the case since it's a formal

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Speaker 10: extradition and they have a surrender warrant.

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Speaker 1: Got it?

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Speaker 2: So let me recap this Peruvian Ministry of Justice agrees

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Speaker 2: to the extradition, they provide a surrender warrant to the

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Speaker 2: US Department of Justice. Then once that has happened, the

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Speaker 2: FBI will either send their jet or the US Marshals

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Speaker 2: will use a commandeer a civilian jet go get him.

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Speaker 2: And Peru is basically saying, hey, he's yours, COEOD cash

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Speaker 2: on delivery, you can transport, and we're not interested. So

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Speaker 2: then we go get him. We bring him home, maybe

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Speaker 2: stop for refueling, get him to the Federal court in Birmingham,

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Speaker 2: and then he goes and cools his heel in a

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Speaker 2: US holding facility until he goes to trial.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 10: That's correct? Then once the trial is concluded, the United

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Speaker 10: States Marshal Service would return them to Peru to.

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Speaker 1: Who's jumping in in.

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Speaker 13: A local jail because the FBI and the government they

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Speaker 13: don't have jails. They have proof.

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Speaker 1: He's not going to be in a state jail.

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Speaker 10: No, he would be in. He would be in. He

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Speaker 10: would be in the United States Marshall Service custody.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, and the traffic right.

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Speaker 10: Well, they contract with either private facilities or local jails.

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Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha, guys, we were talking about the return of

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Speaker 2: your vander salute to U s soil. What if anything

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Speaker 2: can be proven? Now, I don't I know if you've

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Speaker 2: heard this or not, but believe it or not, somehow

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Speaker 2: woven in to this cobbled proceeding is a fake stab wound.

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Speaker 1: Yes, take a listener.

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Speaker 8: Friends at AP, His lawyer claims prisoners are purposely targeting

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Speaker 8: him be inmate to realize that if anything were to

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Speaker 8: happen to you're in vander Slote, for example, if you're

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Speaker 8: in Vanderslote were.

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Speaker 10: To die, as a consequence, the prison would close.

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Speaker 1: And this is what they are trying to do, close

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Speaker 1: the prison. And to do this they're using your in

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Speaker 1: vander Slot as a guinea pig.

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Speaker 8: Prison officials deny the claims, saying vander Slute has superficial

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Speaker 8: wounds on his abdomen that were probably self inflicted.

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Speaker 2: So your vander Slut has self inflicted wounds for what reason?

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Speaker 1: Uh? What do you know about that? Cheryl McCollum.

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Speaker 9: You know it was probably a ploy to get to

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Speaker 9: another prison himself. We know that he was running cocaine

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Speaker 9: out of the prison. Maybe he had a better business

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Speaker 9: opportunity somewhere else. Literally it was self serving that I

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Speaker 9: can guarantee.

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Speaker 2: Okay too or Harris, what if anything do you know

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Speaker 2: about his self inflict?

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Speaker 1: Did stab wound and what.

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Speaker 2: Antics like that could stop this extradition.

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Speaker 6: Well, there's always the medical facility that he might get

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Speaker 6: sent to and who knows what he'd access to there,

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Speaker 6: But that would also could also throw a wrench in

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Speaker 6: the extradition timing. And you know, there's there are a

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Speaker 6: lot of a lot of tools to self inflict yourself

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Speaker 6: with in prison, but usually if something is you know,

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Speaker 6: if someone is stabbed or has those kind of wounds,

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Speaker 6: it's the real thing and it's over because prisoners know

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Speaker 6: how to go for the jugular, so to speak, and

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Speaker 6: he would not be here, So you know, I don't

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Speaker 6: put much stock in being an attack from someone else.

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Speaker 2: I remember distinctly when it happened, the bloodied polo shirt. Yes,

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Speaker 2: polo shirt Jorn Vanderslleet was wearing behind bars when he

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Speaker 2: was stabbed. Stabbed by fellow inmates, he said, And according

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Speaker 2: to his then wife, he was stabbed multiple times by

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Speaker 2: other inmates. As it turned out, it was one stab

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Speaker 2: wound that was self inflicted. Karen Start joining me high

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Speaker 2: profile psychologists joining us out of Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at Karenstart dot com. Karen with

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Speaker 1: a C. What about that?

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Speaker 2: This is the level to which he will sink to

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Speaker 2: get what he wants. He stabbed himself in the stomach

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Speaker 2: to get some sort of preferred treatment or even transfer

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Speaker 2: in the Provian jail system.

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Speaker 14: So, Nancy, that's not a surprise that Ohl. If you

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Speaker 14: look at the things that this guy is capable of doing.

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Speaker 14: He really like taking a grieving mother and not caring

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Speaker 14: about the fact that her daughter is dead and she

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Speaker 14: just wants to know where she's located. Heartless, he has

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Speaker 14: absolutely no conscience. She will do whatever it takes to

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Speaker 14: try and get attention, synthathy things going his way. So

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Speaker 14: he's capable of anything that I'm not surprised about at all.

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Speaker 2: Well, another thing to you, Art Harris, Emmy Award winning

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Speaker 2: investigative journalist at Ardharris dot com. The moment he was

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Speaker 2: stabbed behind bars, his wife immediately took to the airwaves

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Speaker 2: about him being stabbed, hopefully to get preferential treatment.

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Speaker 1: So that's what that was all about. And I don't.

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Speaker 2: Put it beyond him to try another stunt like that

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Speaker 2: to avoid extradition.

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Speaker 1: To the US.

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Speaker 6: Anything can happen with him. We know he's as sociopath,

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Speaker 6: a psychopath killer who has no problem meaning a girl

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Speaker 6: at a casino and then going back to the room

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Speaker 6: and standing her when he finds out she's been peaking

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Speaker 6: at his computer. So this is someone who is just

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Speaker 6: beyond what profilers might construct if they were to create

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Speaker 6: a fictional You know you are in Vandersloot, you know

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Speaker 6: he surpasses all the evil that you can muster.

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Speaker 2: Well, at first it was claimed to be multiple stab

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Speaker 2: wounds three inches deep each buy Inmates on your Vandersloot.

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Speaker 2: Then it turned into two stab wounds two inches deep,

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Speaker 2: and then it turned into oh and the wife managed

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Speaker 2: to go behind bars and quote smuggle out his bloody

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Speaker 2: shirt to show it to the press. Then it turns

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Speaker 2: out it was all self inflicted. So I don't know

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Speaker 2: what they're going to pull next. I do know this

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Speaker 2: back to earth Brandt, Senior Inspector US Marshall Service, that

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Speaker 2: there is talk of his lawyer filing a habeas corpus

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Speaker 2: motion to throw a wrench in the works.

440
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: What do you know about that and how would that work?

441
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 10: Nancy? That's always a possibility when it comes to formal extraditions.

442
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 10: The host country, the country with the defendant currently has

443
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 10: an appeal system that the lawyers can go through, but

444
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 10: the president of Peru has already signed off, so I

445
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 10: don't know what kind of appeals he has left. I'm

446
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 10: sure he'll file an appeal, but whether that'll stop and

447
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 10: being turned over to US authorities, that remains to be seen.

448
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 10: I find it highly unlikely that if it is delayed,

449
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 10: it won't be delayed long.

450
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: So what is he looking at in the US and

451
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: how are we going to prove it? Take a listen

452
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: to our friends at Fox six.

453
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 11: As soon as he's sentenced, Vanderschlut will be flown back

454
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 11: to Peru to finish the murder sentence he is currently serving,

455
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 11: which ends in twenty forty. The most he could face

456
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 11: in the US is fifty years on these charges.

457
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 4: Any sentence that he gets is going to be a

458
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 4: very close to a life sentence for your vandersup and look,

459
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 4: he deserves every inch of American justice, every ounce of

460
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 4: American justice that we can give him. And when he

461
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 4: finally released from the previu in prison, and he does

462
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 4: all of his time in the Bureau of Prisons for

463
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 4: the United States, he still has hell to look forward to.

464
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: He certainly does.

465
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: That was Jay Town speaking right there, joining me right now,

466
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 2: Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath

467
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 2: My Feet on Amazon, and star of a new hit series,

468
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. So, Scott, thank you

469
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: for being with us. Joe Scott, I think that having

470
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: him in the US and the long period of time

471
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: it will take to prepare his trial could only benefit

472
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: the US and Natalie's mother, Beth. How are we going

473
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: to prove the charges against him? The charges on us

474
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 2: soil still not a murder charge. And do you ever

475
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: think we're going to have enough evidence to determine where

476
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: is Natalie and what happened to her?

477
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 15: Very difficult to do, Nancy. You know, I think the

478
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 15: closest I come to this thinking about what happened to Natalie,

479
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 15: and you know where her remains wound up. This is

480
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 15: a seventy square mile island. I know you've been there,

481
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 15: Cheryl's been there. This is as horrible as this is

482
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 15: to say, this is a one of the most diverse

483
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 15: populations of apex predators in the oceans. You've got more

484
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 15: shark species down there than any other location. There's an

485
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 15: indication she may have been taken out on a boat

486
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 15: her remains and they were disposed of out there. To

487
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 15: this point, there has been no physical evidence. I think

488
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 15: that at one point in time, the FBI found some

489
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 15: hair that turned out to be a big fat zero.

490
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 15: And of course there was this stuff with the bone

491
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 15: frygments that the forensic lab and Netherlands examined. There was

492
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 15: a jaw along with teeth, and even based upon what

493
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 15: they found with the bone fragments, they couldn't determine if

494
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 15: his male is female. And this is the point. With

495
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 15: that physical evidence, they could not tie back biologically to Natalie.

496
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 15: And you know, and I can only imagine you talk

497
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 15: about you know, the shakedown artist, this guy, this animal.

498
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 15: You know, it required on the part of Beth to

499
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 15: her to surrender a piece of herself. You know, she's

500
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 15: holding on to hope that this child is still alive.

501
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 15: She has to give up a DNA sample, and of

502
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 15: course it was it was a goose chase and then

503
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 15: the shakedown. You know, it comes to that point. I

504
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 15: think the one point of leverage in this is that

505
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 15: he will be in the United States, and we know that.

506
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 15: You know, as Art had mentioned, this guy is just

507
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 15: rife with all kinds of psychological issues. If they can

508
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 15: leverage him in some way while he is here, to

509
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 15: come up with some kind of indication as to where

510
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 15: he deposited her remains. I have no doubt that he

511
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 15: brought about her death. It's just the reality of trying

512
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 15: to determine where on that little plot of land down

513
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 15: there he disposed of her.

514
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: We keep talking about a rube or at least I do,

515
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: being complicit and Natalie's death and then not helping her

516
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: family at all. They knew what was happening with Yourn

517
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: van der Sloot. Natalie Holloway was by far not his

518
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: first victim.

519
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut sixty.

520
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: This is Bob Plumber talking to me, a chaperone on

521
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: the trip that ill fated senior trip Natalie went but

522
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: never came back.

523
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: Listen Jorn.

524
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 16: He was in the casino every night, in the resort

525
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 16: as well, so he was already in contact our seeing

526
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 16: and around our students, you know, pretty much every night

527
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 16: from the first night that we got there. So I'm

528
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 16: pretty sure that's where he first made contact with any

529
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 16: of our students before they even went to Carlos and Charlie's,

530
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 16: and then probably heard that that's where they were going

531
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 16: each night, and somehow ended up there with them each night.

532
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: Time Stories with Nancy Grace del Carson joining me, high

533
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, Florida, and former fed with

534
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: the FBI, author of Arrest Proof Yourself and you can

535
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: find them at del Carson Law dot com. Dell, everybody

536
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: knew your vanderslut would go to the casinos and the bars,

537
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: slip the young female tourists ruthies, and take them way

538
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: to rate them. Everybody knew that it was It's not

539
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: even a secret. They didn't try to keep it a secret,

540
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 2: yet they did nothing.

541
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 13: Well, it doesn't surprise me because those islands, and I

542
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 13: worked in that situation for a number of years. Islanders

543
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 13: are very insular and statesiders when they come are looked

544
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 13: down upon. And it doesn't take you long living on

545
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 13: an island to know where you can throw trash in

546
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 13: the water and it goes away. And certainly at the

547
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 13: north end of the island where the lighthouse is is

548
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 13: a known area. The water is twenty six fathoms deep

549
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 13: just right off shore, and everybody on an island over

550
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 13: the centuries would know precisely where you want to throw

551
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 13: a dead hog or a dead cow to get it

552
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 13: off the island. And so it's not surprising to me

553
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 13: at all that there's no body to be recovered. And

554
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 13: in the Virgin Islands we have a number of unsolved

555
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 13: state side cases. Individuals have flown down there, they've gotten

556
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 13: involved with the local groups and disappeared, never to be

557
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 13: found again. It's an island, and you don't need to

558
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 13: bury something in the sand where it's going to come back.

559
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 13: You just know where to place it. And it's a

560
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 13: horrible situation where predators who live on these islands they're

561
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 13: not going to talk to other people. Islanders again, are

562
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 13: very insore, they don't care for statesiders, and they know

563
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 13: that they're going to live on that island for the

564
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 13: rest of their lives, and they're certainly not going to

565
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 13: explain their behavior or the behavior of others who lived

566
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 13: with them on the islands to the general public and

567
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 13: not to the police.

568
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: Well, you're right about all that.

569
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: It's stunning to me, aren't Harris, That they the authorities

570
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 2: knew Gorn van der Slut had this mo modus opera

571
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: LII method of operation and they did nothing. So this

572
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: was just like another day at the office for your

573
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: vander Slout.

574
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 6: Well, you got to remember, Nancy, they had the judge,

575
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 6: his dad was a judge, and who was looking over

576
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 6: their shoulder, who they allowed to look over their shoulder,

577
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 6: and knew what the next move by police were probably

578
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 6: in every second, so he could set up an easy escape.

579
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 13: Plus, when you go back to us, himself was arrested

580
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 13: in connection with all of this by a local law

581
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 13: enforcement because they knew he was connected with the son.

582
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: Well, guys, wait a minute, it's more than just the

583
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 2: dad watching over and keeping your in vander Slute out

584
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: of trouble. It's more than that the father, Paulus Vanderslout.

585
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 2: The judge was at the casino the night Natalie goes missing.

586
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: Take a listen to hour cut sixty three.

587
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 17: He was seated Natalie and then you're on is only

588
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 17: a far the right side, but you can even see

589
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 17: Natalie's slant out of her body positions. Spoke volumes to

590
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 17: me because she was leaning towards her friend.

591
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: And when you saw her, what went through your mind?

592
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 17: So while I'm at the Holiday Inn talking to the

593
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 17: night manager and then now arranging for me to view

594
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,439
Speaker 17: the security footage because I was trying to find out

595
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 17: I wanted to get a visual like of who this

596
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 17: person that Natalie was last seen with. I needed to

597
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 17: sing because some of Natalie's friends were saying that his

598
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 17: name was like they had part of his name and

599
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 17: I can't remember what part they had. Then the night

600
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 17: manager was able to confirm his entire name because she said.

601
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we know you're on vander Sloop.

602
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,959
Speaker 17: He praised That's what she described him as praise.

603
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: Upon American females is what she said. Everybody knew. Everybody knew,

604
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: so it was a common mo.

605
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 2: I recently commented that your vander slut had sex assaulted

606
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: Natalie Holloway, and I was met with a firestorm of

607
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: complaints claiming and I understand this since her body was

608
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: never found, why do you believe she was sex assaulted?

609
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: Well, this is why. Take a listen to our cut

610
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: sixty seven.

611
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 18: And finally got to rubin police officials to accompany us

612
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 18: to his.

613
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: Home in that early morning hour.

614
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 18: It began to get heated because Uran began to describe

615
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 18: to the men from home about the.

616
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: Sexual activity that he engaged in with badly in the

617
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: backseat of the car were they were very graphic.

618
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 17: I could just probably safely say just very sexually explicit.

619
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 3: Activity that he was engaging with her in the backseat

620
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 3: of the car.

621
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 18: And he's saying that she's falling asleep and waking up,

622
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 18: and falling asleep and waking up. So they're hearing that

623
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 18: she's drug and that she's I.

624
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 17: Mean, this is against her will because she can't choose.

625
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,439
Speaker 1: Her free will.

626
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 18: And so after that happened, then Duran was insistent that

627
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 18: after all that activity that engaged.

628
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: In with her, he took her back to the holiday

629
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: in hotel and dropped her off. Well that's not true,

630
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum.

631
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 2: Do you recall Beth telling us that Jorn Vandersluit's father

632
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 2: actually was at the casino.

633
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 9: Yes, not only was he at the casino. Again, he

634
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 9: knew his son was underage, He knew what his practice

635
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 9: was there. He knew that everybody at the hotel, the restaurant,

636
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 9: and the casino knew how old he was and knew that,

637
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 9: you know, the game he was running on tourists because

638
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 9: he would not approach them or assault them until the

639
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 9: night before they were set to leed. So what he

640
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 9: knew is this victim was not going to stay on

641
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 9: this island to press charges. She was going to, you know,

642
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 9: make her flight to go home, because all that had

643
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 9: been pre arranged and paid for. So he had this

644
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 9: down to a science. He would meet them, befriend them.

645
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 9: He would lie about where he was from. He would

646
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 9: say he was from the Netherlands, he would lie about

647
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 9: his age, he would act like he didn't know the

648
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 9: area either, and all of this was just part.

649
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: Of his mo Tarn Harris, you were on the ground

650
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,280
Speaker 2: at the very beginning, and you've been through so much

651
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 2: trying to find the answer to what happened to Natalie Holloway.

652
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 6: What do you think, Well, I think that he had

653
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 6: the whole formula down, as Cheryl said, he had the

654
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 6: roofies ready, he had whatever he slipped into their drinks,

655
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 6: and he knew how much to make them unconscious enough

656
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 6: to let him lead them away. And there's probably other

657
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 6: I heard rumors of other bodies that we don't even

658
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 6: know about. I mean, if you wanted to put the

659
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 6: word out and really make the make a roof upset,

660
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 6: you know, have billboards, don't let your daughter go through

661
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 6: the island of death and have Natalie's picture up there.

662
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 2: Whether Nllie's remains will ever be found is a question

663
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 2: that hangs over the current investigation and soon to be

664
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: prosecution in a US court of law for extortion and

665
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: wirefraud trying to bleed Natalie's mother drive a quarter million

666
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: dollars in exchange for the truth about her daughter.

667
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Good Bye friend,