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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this because and this is what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on. Some of the injuries that

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Speaker 1: you had and all the things that you had to

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Speaker 1: persevere through. Do you think that goes back to your

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Speaker 1: upbringing where you was able to dig in mentally and

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Speaker 1: get through some of that because of the grit and

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Speaker 1: all the stuff that going back to Memphis and your

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Speaker 1: grandma in the park, all that helped you get through

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Speaker 1: the tough times when you was a millionaire.

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Speaker 2: But you know what's so crazy, Yes, what helped me

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Speaker 2: get through is what ruined my what end of my

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Speaker 2: career because I was so tough minded. I was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna play through this, and I was out there limping.

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Speaker 2: If you watched me later when I started having surgeries,

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Speaker 2: I would never fully heal. And I don't know, I

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Speaker 2: was just saying at eighty percent, I'm as good as anybody.

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Speaker 2: Let me just get out here and help my team.

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Speaker 2: I never fully healed. That was a toughness that I

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Speaker 2: got taught wow and being there for my teammates, and

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Speaker 2: it really ruined my career because I didn't allow myself

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Speaker 2: to fully heal. I felt embarrassed if I got to

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Speaker 2: a point to where I could just run up and

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Speaker 2: down the court. And I remember Chuck Dailey coming when

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Speaker 2: I was doing rehab in Houston. I wasn't supposed to

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Speaker 2: be back for another month, Bro. I cut my rehab

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Speaker 2: short to play in the game in Houston, and I

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Speaker 2: don't even know what my stats were. We won and

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Speaker 2: I could barely walk out of the game. I came

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Speaker 2: back early and I knew I couldn't go backwards from

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Speaker 2: that point, so I just kept playing for the rest

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Speaker 2: of the season. I just I did some things for

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Speaker 2: the love of the game and love of my teammates,

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Speaker 2: an organization that ended up ultimately costed me.

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Speaker 3: But it's from the background of you just get through it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And one thing I found out, you just can't

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Speaker 2: get through a knee injury, bro, no matter what, you

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Speaker 2: gotta heal fully. Especially with my game being explosive and

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Speaker 2: being an athlete, I needed to fully heal and I

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Speaker 2: never did. But yeah, my upbringing did help me to

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Speaker 2: the point where I was just mentally tough enough to

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Speaker 2: get out there and play through the pain.

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Speaker 3: But it also hurt me because I never really fully healed.

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Speaker 4: He's a sicko though, like the guy still plays five

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Speaker 4: on five.

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Speaker 3: I get it. He loves it. He loves it.

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Speaker 4: Coach, We're gonna ask you a couple of fan questions.

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Speaker 4: You cool with that? Yep at Emil Grace. Uh, how

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Speaker 4: do you I can answer this question? How do you

49
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Speaker 4: see yourself at peak doing today's pacing space Tile League?

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Speaker 4: You gonna average thirty He's gonna average thirty five A seven.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't a three point shooter, but in today's time

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Speaker 2: I would have been. I would have worked on it,

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Speaker 2: and I'd be getting up twelve, twelve, thirteen threes a game.

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Speaker 3: So this, this era.

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Speaker 2: Fished me just as as as much as the era

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Speaker 2: that I played in, because there's so much space. And

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Speaker 2: if I have a five man, if I call the

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Speaker 2: five man out and he switches on.

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Speaker 1: To me, oh you're gonna kill him, Yeah, kill, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna kill. I'm looking at k Cunningham and I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at you coming up the left side of the floor.

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Speaker 1: And if you got a small guard to play, get

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Speaker 1: out of the way, let him go to work.

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Speaker 3: There.

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Speaker 4: There's three players in the game right now that are

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Speaker 4: even be close. He'd average and this because he doesn't

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Speaker 4: want to talk about it, he'd average thirty eleven and

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Speaker 4: eight right now for.

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Speaker 1: Sure, because you ain't switching No. Five onto him, and

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Speaker 1: if he's coming down the side and you got six

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Speaker 1: two or whatever, we ain't run it.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead and do your thing, yeah, and make plays

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Speaker 3: from that for sure, and get we'll figure it out.

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Speaker 3: It's all of us know.

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Speaker 2: For me, the way I played, I played more for

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Speaker 2: this era than I did in my era because it

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Speaker 2: was like I was a fast paced guard even at

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Speaker 2: six seven, just getting the ball up the court and

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Speaker 2: pace and trying to get Nick and Dennis to run

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Speaker 2: corners for space and Horace beat the trail. So we

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Speaker 2: were kind of doing that in Orlando, even though Shaq was,

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Speaker 2: you know, in the paint, but when we're on a

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Speaker 2: fast break, especially when we had Horace at the five

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Speaker 2: and we brought like Donald Royle in, it was like

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Speaker 2: we spaced the floor, man and just played. So that

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Speaker 2: was back then, So now I would definitely enjoy playing.

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Speaker 1: I got question talk to me about the recruiting, and

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Speaker 1: we talked about that earlier, and the AAU and just

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Speaker 1: all of that that you gotta manage as a coach

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Speaker 1: to put yourself in a good position.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when I first came back. Obviously, I played AAU

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Speaker 2: for the Memphis Y. When I came back, I connected

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Speaker 2: with them and made Team Penny and started really coaching guys.

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Speaker 2: And I found out early on the recruiting phase in

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Speaker 2: the AAU was just like recruiting.

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Speaker 3: Phase in college.

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Speaker 2: You just got to try to talk guys and to

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Speaker 2: coming to your team, joining other guys and trying to

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Speaker 2: piece together a team. I mean, Mike understands it's because

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Speaker 2: of his AU program, and you got to really be

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Speaker 2: good at it. That actually helped prepare me because I

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Speaker 2: was in the EYBL Nike EYBL League, which was full

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Speaker 2: of unbelievable coaches. They really coached the game to win.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't just some rec league that everybody was just

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Speaker 2: getting shots up. These guys ran plays, ran different defensive

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Speaker 2: zones and everything. So I really got prepared to recruit

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Speaker 2: and to learn how to play against those zones, the presses,

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Speaker 2: all these different things because in the NBA we didn't

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Speaker 2: see any of that. So retiring and going right into that,

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Speaker 2: I had to get my juices going on how to

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Speaker 2: play zone, how to work against zone, how to work

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Speaker 2: against presses, because we don't really we don't press in

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Speaker 2: the league any of that. So it really helped prepare

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Speaker 2: me when I got to college and then the recruitment

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Speaker 2: it was much easier honestly with Mike because Mike.

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Speaker 3: Is just great at it.

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Speaker 2: He can get any kid on the phone at any time,

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Speaker 2: get us in any any front room, living room, or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and we had our way and it was much easier

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Speaker 2: for me, and that kind of jump started me on,

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Speaker 2: you know, being where I am now, which I've been

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Speaker 2: able to get some great, great pieces because of the

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Speaker 2: coaches that I had, but especially because of Mike. Some

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Speaker 2: of the biggest names, god name guys that I've ever

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Speaker 2: had came from having him here with me and and recruiting.

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Speaker 2: So but from my experience as a coach starting you know,

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Speaker 2: middle school, going into the AAU and get into the

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Speaker 2: EYBL definitely helped me up until now.

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Speaker 3: So it was like the grassroots leading up into this

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Speaker 3: this level. Lad.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of a follow up to that question, Coach, Like,

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Speaker 4: the thing I think you've done a really good job

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Speaker 4: of is is going into now and getting a little

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Speaker 4: old in a little more physical and going to your

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Speaker 4: kind of brand and style. Right, Like You've done a

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Speaker 4: great job the last couple of years. How hard is that?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 4: On the Nils, you're basically recruiting your own team and

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Speaker 4: other players every year. Like it's like at some point

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Speaker 4: they're gonna have to figure out how to Like if

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Speaker 4: you sign with us, you gotta sign a multi year

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Speaker 4: deal or something, because it's not fair. It's unfair to

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Speaker 4: you guys, like you're changing your stuff, Like you have

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Speaker 4: a style play you want to play, but you might

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Speaker 4: have to change that every year because you don't know

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Speaker 4: who's even on your roster anymore.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you saying that there needs to

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Speaker 2: be something with multiple years in the deal so that

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Speaker 2: you just can't leave after one. They give you an

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Speaker 2: opportunity to build a team, which we can't do anymore,

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Speaker 2: and you got to re recruit your own guys every year.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 4: You game, and you gave the platform to go out

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Speaker 4: there and be like that, Like if you didn't come here,

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Speaker 4: you ain't doing that in our system.

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Speaker 2: It it kind of rewards no house. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: like you can it's like free play, Like it's you

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Speaker 2: can go out there and within it's pacing space.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and you're you're allowed. You're not in a box.

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Speaker 2: I allow my guys to hoop, because how can I

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Speaker 2: tell them now the hoop when my coaches allowed me

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Speaker 2: to hoop. So, but it hurts you when you have

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Speaker 2: to re recruit the same guy that you just gave

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Speaker 2: all of this, gave him this platform and it's much freedom,

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Speaker 2: and then you have to go and rerecruit them and

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Speaker 2: they still get into portal and then you know, go

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Speaker 2: to another school.

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Speaker 3: That's the most difficult part about I watched you to

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Speaker 3: do it. I watched you do it.

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Speaker 4: You took three to four months to develop, build up

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Speaker 4: their confidence, get it to where they're at. They kill it,

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Speaker 4: and now it's like, okay, so you want to go

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Speaker 4: somewhere else. I don't know, man, that's hard.

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Speaker 3: It's hard. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When we played the guy that gave us that platform

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Speaker 2: and the guy that taught us, we were going to

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Speaker 2: stay there to show the loyalty to put us.

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Speaker 3: In the game.

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Speaker 4: Another questionnaire, if Shaq stays, does Orlando win a championship?

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's without a doubt.

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Speaker 2: I agree that igue that the Orlando Magic would have

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Speaker 2: put more pieces around us and we would have definitely

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Speaker 2: would have won one.

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Speaker 3: That's that's guaranteed. We would have won one. For sure.

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Speaker 3: I agree.

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Speaker 1: I got a fan question. Your time in Miami. Just

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Speaker 1: talk about it. Obviously you were a seasoned veteran, but

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Speaker 1: it was different than anywhere else. Is anything you learned

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Speaker 1: anything specific about the culture of your time there?

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Speaker 3: Man? You know what?

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Speaker 2: I love Miami, man, because even though I was a

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Speaker 2: veteran that was on the way out, everything about it,

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Speaker 2: what coach reality stood for, was supposed to stood for

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Speaker 2: what the whole entire culture stood for.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: I already had work ethic, I had discipline, I had

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Speaker 2: all those things. I had to really try out for

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Speaker 2: the team. I remember trying out for the team. You

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Speaker 2: were down on the other end because you were just

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Speaker 2: a hard worker.

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Speaker 4: Bro.

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Speaker 3: I respected you.

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Speaker 2: So much because you really didn't have to do the

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Speaker 2: stuff that you did, and it wasn't because of the

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Speaker 2: culture of the Heat. You were the heat, you were

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Speaker 2: the culture. You brought what you who you were to

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Speaker 2: the culture. So that really drove me to be like,

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Speaker 2: I can't let someone like ud down. I can't let

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Speaker 2: somebody like Zoe down. I can't let these guys down

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Speaker 2: because they're the epitome of hard work. So when I

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Speaker 2: came in and worked out with spowing them and I

212
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Speaker 2: was trying out and eventually had to make the team.

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Speaker 2: I put my ego to the side, even when we

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Speaker 2: were hooping out at the high school together.

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Speaker 3: It was like every.

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Speaker 2: Single thing that I did, even though I knew I

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Speaker 2: wasn't myself, I was really trying to be a part

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Speaker 2: of something special because I understood it as soon as

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Speaker 2: I stepped in the door, from putting the elbow pads

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Speaker 2: on in the knee pads to being disciplined enough to

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Speaker 2: understand what this is about for everybody run the boat

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Speaker 2: in the same direction. Accountability, responsibility, hard work. My few

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Speaker 2: months with Miami was probably the most satisfying over everything,

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Speaker 2: because I enjoyed the atmosphere of every freaking body in

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Speaker 2: that building wanting to win, not one person not wanting

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Speaker 2: to get a championship. That's what it was or bust.

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Speaker 2: With Miami and the culture itself. I never had to

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Speaker 2: work that hard anywhere else, even the priests, he's a

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Speaker 2: conditioning drill. I never had to work that hard anywhere else,

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Speaker 2: from the preparation to just the the every single thing

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Speaker 2: from the expectations. I mean in the league, it's just

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Speaker 2: really when you go there, it's either your built for

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Speaker 2: it or you're not. And I talked to Tim and

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Speaker 2: Zoe about that even before I went. It was like,

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Speaker 2: everybody's not built to be a Miami Heat player. And

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Speaker 2: the guys that have come through there with the talent

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Speaker 2: and the guys that have come through there that have

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Speaker 2: made their name, whether they were a no name, and

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Speaker 2: then you was like, this guy wasn't on the map,

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Speaker 2: and Miami put him on the map. I really enjoyed

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Speaker 2: my time there, man, because it was about business and

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Speaker 2: Pat treated us like, I mean, first class, the hotels,

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Speaker 2: to every single thing it was. I loved it, bro

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Speaker 2: I just hated I wasn't able to be myself in

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Speaker 2: the Miami Heat uniform because man, when you put that

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Speaker 2: jersey on, you had a lot of pride and understanding

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Speaker 2: what it meant, and it was all about hard work.

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Speaker 2: I haven't felt that type of environment any other team

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Speaker 2: that I've that I've ever played for, and that's just

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Speaker 2: no knock. That's just how Pat put things in perspective

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Speaker 2: and made it work.

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Speaker 4: One last question for the kids, what was your training

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Speaker 4: routine and how can I do it? As a freshman

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Speaker 4: in high school?

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Speaker 2: Man, you got to go to like six parks a day.

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Speaker 2: You got to go to like three gyms. You got

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Speaker 2: to chase all the good hoopers around your city and

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Speaker 2: go from gym to gym or court to court and

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Speaker 2: just keep getting better. You get your ass bus, you

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Speaker 2: show back up at that court the same the next day,

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Speaker 2: until you just start owning it. But honestly, if that's

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Speaker 2: not about what you're about, you're getting the gym and

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Speaker 2: you find somebody that's better or equal, that has the

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Speaker 2: same mental with you, and you go on that gym

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Speaker 2: and y'all work. You know, you work on your weaknesses,

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Speaker 2: you work on your strengths, You work on your ball hending,

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Speaker 2: you work on your pass, and you work on your shooting,

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Speaker 2: and find some hooping, bro Like, find somewhere to play

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Speaker 2: because all of the drills are not going to get you.

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Speaker 2: The experience is the best teacher. Find where they're play

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Speaker 2: involved and be the hardest competitor in that hoop. Don't

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Speaker 2: just go through the motions in the hoop. Be the

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Speaker 2: toughest competitor. Make them say, damn, this dude is playing hard.

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Speaker 2: Stand out in that aspect because a lot of people

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Speaker 2: aren't used to getting uncomfortable to be great, and that's

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Speaker 2: what you have to be man.

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Speaker 3: You got to get uncomfortable to be great.

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Speaker 1: I want to point out one thing that you said,

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Speaker 1: and this is for all the kids at home or

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Speaker 1: for anybody, everything that you have accomplished, everything that you

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Speaker 1: meant to the game individually, as a cultural icon, the shoe,

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Speaker 1: the little penny. You came and said that you tried

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Speaker 1: out for the heat and made the team.

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Speaker 2: Like to the socause I want I wanted to play there,

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Speaker 2: bro I tried, I could have gotten cut down.

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Speaker 1: People need to wrap their mind around like that right there,

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Speaker 1: because what people don't understand is what kind of sacrifice

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Speaker 1: that takes. How selfless you have to be. You know

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Speaker 1: like that that's not easy, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: And oftentimes we argue about roles, and you know, what's

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Speaker 1: this person's role and what's that person's role, and whose

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Speaker 1: role is more important? We have a penny harder who's

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Speaker 1: willing to play whatever role he has to play in

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Speaker 1: order to help the team win. Yes, sir, and I

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Speaker 1: think that people don't speak on those things enough, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So, whether you knew it or not,

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Speaker 1: we knew that you had to try out for that team,

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Speaker 1: and we knew what you were sacrificing, and we knew

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Speaker 1: the things that was important to you. So without you

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Speaker 1: even saying it, Bro, we had the ultimate respect for you.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not just saying that now. We were saying

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Speaker 1: that then like this, really like we were saying that then,

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Speaker 1: Like he'd have made the money he's had, the career,

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Speaker 1: he's had, the individual success, he's had, all these things.

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Speaker 1: He just wants to be a part of what we do.

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Speaker 1: It that says a lot about Himpe, That says a

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Speaker 1: lot about him.

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