WEBVTT - The PTSD Cure Veterans Can’t Get 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:07.120 All right, so great. When are illegal drugs good for 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:12.440 your mental health? I guess it depends on the drugs. 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.320 Suicide rates among military personnel and veterans are climbing to 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.880 new highs in post nine to eleven conflicts. A study 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.920 found that four times as many US service members and 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.440 veterans have died by suicide than have been killed in combat. 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:29.520 I just have you know, the experiences rangers like what 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:31.400 can what can touch me? You know, little by little, 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:35.559 the trauma those ignoring started manifesting in my life in 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:40.320 a lot of pretty bad ways. Alcoholism, impression, anxiety, engaging, 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.400 and risky behavior. Is an urgent need for new alternative 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.760 approaches to therapy, and significant promise has been shown with 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.760 drugs as ancients as they are controversial. After a little while, 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.440 almost hallucinated this hand just like stripping me out of 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:59.400 that of the hell zone and immediately plopping me down 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.720 into the serene sort of just like mound, And I 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.920 was like, whoa what was that? That's and and the 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:07.840 fact that you had a place you could go in 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.240 your brain but you didn't know it was there, like 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:16.119 that was and there there's a lot of places to Yeah, 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:26.919 closed that door permanently. Yeah, I'm Greg Glad and this 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:31.360 is the War on Drugs. Well, man, Greg, how you 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.280 doing today? I'm great, Clay, And how are you doing? 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.679 I'm great man. You know, we're gonna be doing something 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.080 special for you know, this episode actually the next episode. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.520 Like we thought we were gonna do an episode on 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.800 kind of mental health or on drugs, psychedelics their impacts, 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.800 and we started just digging in and it just wasn't 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.680 too big. Yeah, it can't fit, can't fit in the bag. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.920 we need a bigger back. Yeah. Two yeah, definitely. Yeah. 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.920 So we're doing two parts kind of talking about you know, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.440 personal experiences with UM, you know, combat veterans and their 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:09.959 experiences with PTSD, and you know, treatments like psychedelics with ayahuasca, 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.960 you know the efficacy of these and how much better 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.080 results you're getting, you know, without having you know, just 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.440 being pumped with a bunch of pills that which is 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:20.480 like our only way that we know how to treat 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.480 you know, these types of mental mental health issues. So 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.079 UM and then kind of getting more into the science 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:27.560 of this, like why does it work? And then the 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.120 impediments like why aren't we what's the problems with research, 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:32.760 how do we do this? And you know, always goes 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.440 back to just like this arbitrary enforcement of certain substances 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:40.799 over others and why um and so I'm super super 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.040 excited to dive into all this. Yeah, me too. I 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.720 see why we had to split it into two. You know, 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:47.520 it's a lot to talk about. And I think the 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:51.560 veterans they just you know, uh, we ask so much 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.480 out of them and then when they come back, the 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.440 way they get treated as far as you know, for 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:01.240 whether it's healthcare and mental health or anything, I think 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:06.240 is you know, it's shameful sometimes, you know. And yeah, 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.440 and this is all the stuff I'm interested in. I 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.120 got so many questions about Hiawaska. Yeah, yeah, I mean 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.240 I kind of want to explore it, but I'm also 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.000 scared of it. And you know, maybe that fear is 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.720 is I just don't know stuff or anything. Would you 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.399 ever would you ever take the Hiawaska trip? Because I've 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.359 heard these stories and they just sound terrible. It doesn't 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.680 sound fun, Yeah, but it sounds impactful in your life, 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.120 Like I would definitely be interesting. Like that's some of 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:36.720 the stuff I'm just gonna ask about, maybe for my 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.080 own charress. I'm sure listeners have the same kind of questions, 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.160 like what what is actually happening? Like where do you go? 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:43.640 Like how do you know you're not going to be 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.720 just grifted down when you go to Peru and some 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.840 guys just gonna drop you off on a bus with 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.240 thing and yeah, so like how do you ye? Yeah, 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.600 like I just I don't want to go there, and 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.440 I get roofy and up the Hiawaska trip. They stole 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:04.000 my pants for yea. This is terrible. Well, definitely a 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.480 lesson you'll learn, yeah, the other I guess yeah, yeah, 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.920 anything they can kind of reveal some of yourself to 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.839 you and preconceptions what you think, and that's what I think. 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.040 This this, This is what I hope for this episode, 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.359 these two episodes, is that you know, we show people 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:23.600 what think, what you think this is versus what it 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.760 really is. And I'm coming to it with my own, 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.000 you know, preconceived notions about stuff. So exactly A you're 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.240 going to learn, Well, I got the guy for you. 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.800 This is someone that has kind of like talked to talk, 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:37.520 walk the walk, and a wide variety of different areas. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.360 Jesse Gould. He's an army ranger veteran, and Jesse's also 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.240 the founder and president of the Heroic Hearts Project, which 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.360 is a nonprofit that's really pioneering psychedelic therapies for military veterans. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.279 So a lot of what's happened with the War on 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:56.560 Drugs is really suppressed a lot of potential medications, therapist treatments, 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:00.240 and just research. And Jesse's you know, organization one of 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.200 the ones really seeing the you know, amazing potential benefits 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:07.320 psychedelics could have, you know, for treating and curing PTSD, 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:12.360 particularly in veterans who have you know, and extremely in sobering, 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.040 high depression and suicide rate. Yeah, I don't want to 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.080 step on it because this is just an episode for 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:20.760 pretty much everyone, and I think it's going to impact them. 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.200 So let's let's shut my mouth and let Jesse start talking. 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:25.840 I can't wait for you all to hear this episode. 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:32.160 Let's go to Jesse Gould. Jesse, welcome to the War 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.560 on Drugs. Honor to have you here. I am immensely 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.599 interested in this issue. I've heard amazing anecdotes about the 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.880 efficacy of of ayahuasca therapy UM and you know, particularly 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.760 with you know, this population of veterans coming back. You know, 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.920 current therapies and treatments, either from the VA or others 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.479 are it's just absolutely failing this population. So really excited 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.080 to talk about this and dive on into your story. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.120 So thanks for having us, Thank you for coming on. 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:03.240 Yeah well yeah the Greg and Clayton. Pleasure to meet you. 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.960 Thanks for having me on and giving this the Voice 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.479 of platform. So looking forward to this conversation where you 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.000 both yeah and Jesse. You know, our our audience won't 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:12.480 be able to see you, but I don't think you're 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.040 the you know who people think about like selling all 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.080 their possessions and moving down to you know, South America 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.440 and doing ayahuasca. You know, yeah, he does it. He 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.160 looks like, you know, he took a shower today, he doesn't, 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.760 you know what I mean. You've seen fish less than 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.839 four times? Yeah, yeah, yeah, your your story is amazing. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.160 Let's just get into the story. Yeah. Well, I first 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.640 want to confirm my did take shower this morning, mostly 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.920 due to my wife. So you know, um, yeah, I 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:46.080 mean you look like yeah, my story it's actually all 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:50.000 too common for veterans where I was an army ranger, 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.480 like you said, I was a non commissioned officer, so 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.880 in charge of now anywhere from ten to twenty junior 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:01.360 rangers overseas combat situations. M And when I got out 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.720 of the military, generally speaking, I was ready to hit 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.039 the ground running. I had this background in economics, I 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.880 just have you know this experiences rangers like what can 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.240 what can touch me? What can stop me? Right? And 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.000 so I was excited found a job in finance, kind 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.240 of was starting to hit all the green check marks 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.600 of what my life should be without really checking in 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.160 on how I felt about it. And you know, little 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.200 by little, the the trauma that I was ignoring that 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.920 was really good at compartmentalizing just started manifesting in my 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.720 life in a lot of pretty bad ways. So, like 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.360 I said, it's it's it's all an all two common 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:42.960 veteran story of you know, alcoholism, depression, and anxiety completely 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:48.160 just ignoring your situation, engaging in risky behaviors just for 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.480 kind of lack of concern of your own life, bad relationships. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:54.040 I could go down the whole list, and there are 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:55.680 a lot of veterans gonna be like, yep, have that one, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.600 and have that one. Fortunately I'm pretty lucky where I 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.040 noticed the red flags. I was coming into work completely 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.000 hungover because I was still able to like do the work. Well. 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.880 I think it just kind of perpetuated it. But it 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.040 was just like I would wake up with like, you know, 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.840 having fallen over a busted hand or something, just really 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.880 stupid stuff that I was just like what are you doing? Like, 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.440 like how's this is not sustainable? And so I went 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.320 to the VA. Unfortunately, in the VA, you know, it's 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.680 it's overwhelmed. But then also like their main go to 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:32.200 is put you on medication, to the point where like 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.440 even the veterans I work with today, it's not uncommon 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.200 for them to have a laundry list of ten different 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.800 medications that they have to take on a pretty regular basis, 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.200 which is pretty ridiculous, you know. So I was in 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.360 that same situation of it was just sort of like, hey, 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.920 you're going through this, how about this medication? Without really 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:53.120 understanding what was going on, without any real track to 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.079 like overcome this stuff. It was just more of like, hey, 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.040 you can maintain it and be functional, but you're not 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.200 going to be great. And I just kind of walked 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.280 away of like what's going on? Like even the professionals 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.079 don't seem to have a handle on this and it 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.280 has to be more than this. Like I think it 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.480 was just had my personality of I'm not I'm not 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.240 going to just struggle with this the rest of my life. 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.280 I'm not just going to maintain like I have to 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:18.440 face it full off head on, and I didn't really 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.720 know how to do that. Around that time, heard about 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:25.760 ayahuasca through the podcast, through the magic of auditory media, 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.800 and kind of came in as anybody else probably here 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.720 would have like, oh psychedelics, Yeah, that's that's really going 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:36.040 to help without doing more drugs is the key to success, right, 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.560 That's that's the story we always hear um. But I 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.319 was just at such a bad and low and lower 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.319 spot that I decided to give it a shot. Was 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.160 I did that reflection in my life of like, all right, 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:52.400 well this isn't worth preserving, this isn't worth preserving. My job, 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:54.360 like it was interesting at first, but it was just 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.000 really became that corporate job where you just like looking 0:09:58.080 --> 0:09:59.760 at the clock and like, what am I doing here? 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.200 Saved the company fifty cents today? Awesome? Good job for me? Right, 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.319 And so it was just like all right, well, nothing's 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.400 going nothing's worth saving here. I'm just getting more and 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:15.120 more depressed and downhill. There's something in the Amazon, there's 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.640 something in the jungle. Let's let's give it a shot. 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:22.680 So I'm not a stranger to just making big decisions 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.520 and so, like you know, I'm packed up my stuff 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.679 and bought a one way ticket just because I knew 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.080 the script need to be changed. I knew there's nothing 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.240 worth preserving in that life I had created in Tampa. 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:34.640 I want to get back to a little bit because 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.120 you talked about some of the experiences with ayahuasca. Can 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.720 you be just kind of talk us through what that 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.000 was from your personal experience, I mean, as as you know, 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.440 as detail as you as you feel comfortable with on 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:51.520 what you experience, what realizations you felt you had, how 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.760 it's helped you personally, and then kind of just moving 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.480 from there. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, always happy too, And I 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.319 always want to emphasize to anybody who's like listening for 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.240 them not to focus too much on other people's like 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.119 trip reports and stuff, just because the interesting thing about 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.600 these experiences, this is very unique. You know, my experience 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.080 is going to be different than somebody else's. Mind can 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.480 be extremely hard somebody else can be very easy or beautiful. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:18.880 And that's kind of the reason we think it works 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.400 is because it's not a one size fits all solution. 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:27.120 But yeah, I mean, my going that that disclaimer aside, 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:32.560 my experience was it was all out warm. I had 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.560 never done psychedelics before. I had no interest in doing 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.839 psychedelics before. I hadn't even smoke we before. It was 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.199 just from like a drank a lot. But it was 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.400 just from zero to like, let's find the toughest psychedelic 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.079 out there, kind of going into that dumb ranger mentality, 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.360 and you had no gateway drunk, you just barrel through 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:57.200 the door, Yeah, through a smoke grenade. And so, I 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.440 mean it was exactly as you would expect in that 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.800 situation where I was like, what the hell's going on? 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:04.960 Like why did I do this to myself? And it 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.760 was just so overwhelming and hard to control. And this 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.640 over the course of the week, there's four ceremonies. They 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.040 tend to like build upon each each night, and so 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:20.400 like the first two ceremonies were just the most discomfort 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:25.280 and fear and whatever, you know, things that you don't 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.440 want to experience all compact into these two nights, and 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:33.320 especially with ayahuasca, has a purging aspect, which generally takes 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.040 the form of a puking can take other forms as well, 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.720 But I was just NonStop puking in my bucket all night, 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:45.600 like and just in this crazy sort of psychedelic, chaotic 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.000 state that's hard to relate to anybody else unless they've 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.720 been there, and you know, the whole time, you're like, 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.560 what's wrong, Like, am I having the fears come up? 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.839 So it took me some time, you know, just kind 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.360 of that strong headed of like I'm not gonna with us, 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.960 I'm not going to surrender, and you know, I just 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.080 I had to learn that lesson the hard way. And 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.240 so then in the third ceremony it started off and 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.280 it was just even worse than a second. I didn't 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.880 think that was possible, and I was, you know, like afraid. 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:17.400 But after a little while, I almost envisioned or hallucinated 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.080 this hand just like ripping me out of that of 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.640 the of the hell zone and immediately plopping me down 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.040 into like the serene sort of just like lounge where 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:33.520 even physiologically I I state transformed from being sweaty, uh, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:38.280 not being able to sit still, like just completely suffocating 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:43.000 and overwhelmed to instantly calm, like heart rate down, feeling 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:47.120 a cool breeze, slat sweat gone away, and I was like, whoa, 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.600 what was that? That's and the fact that you had 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:52.520 a place you could go in your brain but you 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:56.360 didn't know it was there, like that was, and there's 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.120 there's a lot of places I didn't know was there 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:06.000 and I don't want to go. Yeah, yeah, you didn't 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.280 know it was a cool place to go. I got 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.839 some other stuff out of the closet that was fall number. 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:17.680 We'll keep some of the other stuff there. Yeah, we 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:19.600 have a few bills to peg, so we're gonna go 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:28.200 to a couple commercials right now. Hi, I'm Jason Flam 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.200 CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts, Home to 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.320 Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs, and many 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.840 other great podcasts. Today, we're asking you, our listeners, to 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.400 take part in the survey. Your feedback is going to 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.920 help inform how we make podcasts in the future. You're 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.720 complete and candidate answers will help us continue to bring 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.640 you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics that 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.600 impact us all. So please go to Lava for Good 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.400 dot com slash survey and participate today. Thank you for 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:02.040 your support. The War on Drugs podcast is sponsored by 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.800 Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community that partners 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.840 with America's boldest change makers to tackle the root causes 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.200 of our country's biggest problems. The Libertas Institute is working 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.160 to solve one of those problems and is fighting for 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.760 common sense reform in Utah. Right now, twenty nine percent 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.680 of adults are experiencing mental health challenges in Utah, where 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.200 the suicide rate is also one and a half times 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.960 of national average. Psilocybin, the psychoactive substance naturally found in mushrooms, 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.600 is considered by some of the most renowned medical facilities 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.240 in the world to be one of the most promising 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.800 sources of hope for people experiencing depression where traditional medication 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.520 has failed. Even though it's safe and effective, psilocybin remains 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.720 classified as the Schedule one drug under federal law. Our 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.440 neighbors who have not found hope with current treatments should 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.760 not have to choose between potentially life saving medication and incarceration. 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.800 The Libertas Institute is working to change state law so 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.680 that patients can use psilocybin under the supervision of a 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.120 therapist to learn more about stand Together their partners or 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.560 how you can partner to stand together. Go to Stand 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:16.160 Together dot org. You almost highlighted how the cure works 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.680 are how it untangles your brain like things that you'd 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.200 you And of course everybody asked about what's the trip like, 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:24.920 what's the trip like? And that's what I was thinking 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.320 at first, but you put it into in the terms 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.920 of its individual nobody's going to be the same and 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.560 whatever you need to work out is what you need 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:38.160 to work out, and so somebody else might pull something different. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.560 And it's been interesting because you know, our core mission 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.360 is help the veterans on the ground. There there's for 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.440 people who don't know, it's anywhere from seventeen sometimes people 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.280 throughout the number twenty two. Sometimes there's bigger numbers of 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.600 veterans that commit suicide a day, so there's just absolute need. 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.000 Our wait list right now is over a thousand veterans 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.280 that have reached out to us to go seek psychedelics. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.080 And we're a small nonprofit, so that that number should 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.520 shock every single person that we're not a VA institution. 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.600 Where we're outside of this of the manifestation of the 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.360 problem that has been caused by that. And that's part 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.439 of the reason I've founded her own carts project, just 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.960 because I had some you know, I felt I could 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.240 handle myself, but I don't. I don't want other people 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.160 just like, oh he said this, let's go to Peru 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.440 and figure it out. That's that's a recipe for disaster 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.160 for anybody you know and you know anybody else that's 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.800 like listening to this again, I want to caution you 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.160 know with this, it's not just this magic thing of like, hey, 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.399 I'm gonna take psychedelics and Jesse said that I'm going 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.520 to be better. No, b B, be cautious if you 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:40.480 if you want to do it, you know, you're the 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.359 you're the master of your own domain. But if you 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.280 want to actually do these in an effective way for 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.679 treatment and for trauma for therapy, what we say is 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.480 you would really want to do an intention base so 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.800 one that takes a lot of preparation. That's kind of 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.480 what we designed in our program. There's lead up, there's um, 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.400 you know, dietary sort of restrictions, there's getting your mind 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.480 in that right sense. I didn't have any of this, 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.240 and that's why I started building it. UM. Now, what 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.520 we do in terms of the centers we use, we 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.080 do so full on vetting, so even to the point 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.520 of sitting in ceremony where we see how they hold themselves, 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.320 hold the space around it, what the what the safety 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:21.560 precautions are, what's the schedule look like? What what's support 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.439 do they have before and afterwards? This? If you're going 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.639 to do this, this is a serious process, especially for 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.199 people of trauma. It's not, like I said, just as 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.120 like poof, it's gone. Like it can be a very 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:34.359 challenging experience. You can bring up a lot. So you 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.439 want to make sure what where you're going is safe. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.960 You want to make sure that they have support mechanisms 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.600 in place. Can you briefly talk about some of like 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:43.600 how the long term effects? How you felt? You know 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.719 immediately you know there's week's following and then you know, 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.800 you know months years after, Um, do you need like 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.840 a tune up sometimes like how does that all work? Yeah? 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.560 Absolutely so, I mean immediately afterwards of like what the hell? 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.879 And again you know, like really wasn't a support system 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.040 design it? Because it is you know, like it's it's 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.480 hard for for that to happen. So all these things 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.600 were kind of factoring into my brain which would later 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.040 form pro Carts project. But at that time I was 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.520 just like wow, Like one, it was just that wasn't 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.560 what people told me what the psychedelics would be like. 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.920 That was cool, but that wasn't enjoyable, and that wasn't 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:22.879 like a good well, I mean it was good in 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:26.720 terms of the help, but too, like my brain felt different. 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.119 I felt different. I just felt more in charge of 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:34.119 who I was and in control without whatever that was 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.080 affecting me almost you know, the demons that were like 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.480 driving me to do bad decisions. So for the first time, 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:44.960 I felt like really aligned and empowered of my choices 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.639 and what I was going to do. And so I 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.639 started formulating this and like this is something I was 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:52.679 missing and I want to bring to other veterans as 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.520 well as just let them know, like hey, if you've 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.480 tried everything else, maybe this this should be on your radar. 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.760 And no, no, no pressure. There's there's a great window 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.640 after psychedelics where one you do get those downloads, there 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.240 does seem to be the lasting benefits where like I said, 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.600 you kind of have a better understanding of your negative 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.200 patterns and some of these sort of holes and pits 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.280 we fall into, and maybe with that understanding be able 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.280 to like sidestep them a little bit. But beyond that too, 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.720 you have to be diligent about incorporating positive life habits 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:29.720 while you have that motivation. Because most people feel great, 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.160 we call the honeymoon period, and it's a perfect time 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:38.040 to incorporate meditation, incorporate yoga, go for nature walks, you know, 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.920 set up good systems with your spouse. If you don't 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:42.439 do that, if you just go right back to your 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:44.760 old habits, you're probably going to go over right back 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.280 to your old habits and right back to your old traumas, right, 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.120 And so there's that part of it, that's that continual 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.280 sort of process. Let's get into the hero Kards project. 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:54.560 I want to I want to hear about this. So actually, 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.280 how does this all work? You know, just kind of 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.920 core goals and mission and you know, just kind of 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.600 epicacy of everything. So, yeah, about the program. So for 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:08.000 people who don't kind of follow illegal drugs, which is 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.120 a very common thing to do unless you're a little 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:15.600 bit suspect. Psychedelics as well as cannabis and M duma. 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.359 They're all Schedule one substances in the US in many 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:21.720 other countries, which means according to that law, they have 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:27.000 no medicinal value and they're extremely addictive, which is factually 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:32.119 wrong on all sides with all those substances, but they're 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.679 caught in that Schedule one because it's impossible to prove 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.479 that they are not the way the laws work. But anyway, 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.200 so we do about four to six weeks of preparation, 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:43.800 so really getting the person in that mind frame. They 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:47.679 get one on one coaching, we do groups coaching, we 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:53.040 do breathwork, mindfulness. They have connections to people who do 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.600 yoga within the network, so leading up to that, they're 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.080 starting to do better things for themselves, but they're also 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.919