Speaker 1: Welcome to how to Money. I'm Joel and I am
Speaker 1: Matt and today we're talking Young and Profiting with Halla Taha.
Speaker 2: That's right. We're joined today by Halla Taha and our
Speaker 2: conversation is going to be all about making money and
Speaker 2: getting paid. Hala is the host of the Young and
Speaker 2: Profiting also known as yapp podcast, which is a top
Speaker 2: business and entrepreneurship podcast across all the different apps, and
Speaker 2: she is also the founder and CEO of YAP Media.
Speaker 2: It's a podcast network. They've got a full service social
Speaker 2: media podcast marketing agency for all the top podcasters out there,
Speaker 2: including celebrities and CEOs, and that might be a part
Speaker 2: of the reason why she's landed guests like Matthew McConaughey,
Speaker 2: Damon John, Seth Godin, just to name a few. But
Speaker 2: Halla is an expert on networking, marketing, side hustles and
Speaker 2: personal branding as well. She's a LinkedIn pro and so
Speaker 2: we've got a bunch of questions in that arena as well. Halla,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for talking with us today.
Speaker 3: I am so pumped for this conversation. You guys are
Speaker 3: so fun and I can't wait.
Speaker 1: We're pumped to a lot to get to a lot
Speaker 1: of ground to cover. But the first question we got
Speaker 1: to ask everybody who comes on the podcast is what
Speaker 1: do they like to splurge on? Because Matt and I
Speaker 1: we splorge on craft beer. We're drinking a good one
Speaker 1: right now, and and sometimes craft beer costs, you know,
Speaker 1: a pretty penny. What's the thing that you spend more
Speaker 1: money than some people think of saying on while you're
Speaker 1: doing the right thing and you're saving and investing for
Speaker 1: your future.
Speaker 3: It's definitely splurging on beauty expenses. I am dropping a
Speaker 3: lot of cash at Sephora every single month. I am
Speaker 3: getting facials, I'm getting my alashes done every week, my
Speaker 3: nails done, And honestly, part of my brand is to
Speaker 3: look young. And I feel my most confident when I
Speaker 3: feel my most beautiful, and I feel like it just
Speaker 3: helps me be a better, more productive person when I
Speaker 3: take care of myself. So that also includes a gym
Speaker 3: membership I pay for and oh yeah, yeah, just taking
Speaker 3: care of myself.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So does that that technically means that these are
Speaker 2: business expenses?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: I do get to expense some of it's going on
Speaker 3: my business card for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean it's free, right, but it is at
Speaker 1: least helpful so that you're not like, yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 1: say some taxation on that stuff.
Speaker 2: I love it, okay haala. So you said that you've
Speaker 2: had an entrepreneurial spirit ever since you were a little kid.
Speaker 2: I think since you were four years old. Where did
Speaker 2: that come from? And I mean, I guess specifically, I
Speaker 2: want to know if it was nurture, if it was
Speaker 2: a part of your family culture, or if it was
Speaker 2: more just sort of nature, if it's just who you are.
Speaker 3: I think it was certainly nature. I mean I came
Speaker 3: from a family of doctor primarily and a family of
Speaker 3: immigrants where they really thought that the only path to
Speaker 3: success was to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, go to
Speaker 3: college and get a degree, take a test, and then
Speaker 3: like go on this like set track. And in fact,
Speaker 3: I was like the black sheep of my family because
Speaker 3: I was not going on that track. And I'm literally
Speaker 3: the only one out of my four siblings who did
Speaker 3: not become a doctor. And I had cousins who lived
Speaker 3: on the street, three of them who were basically like
Speaker 3: my siblings, they all became doctors. So literally the only
Speaker 3: one in my immediate family out of the quote unquote
Speaker 3: kids that didn't become a doctor.
Speaker 1: You're not alone in that, right. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: immigrants who have a similar sort of story. We brought
Speaker 1: just sing on the podcast. A long time ago I
Speaker 1: met from minority mindset. He said the same thing, like,
Speaker 1: he's been an incredible success and yet you know, his
Speaker 1: parents were like, you're not a doctor or lawyer, so
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. So how's your family responded hat to you?
Speaker 1: He said, do the black sheep. But seeing all the
Speaker 1: success you've had and the ways you've been able to
Speaker 1: kind of, like I don't know, create a pretty like
Speaker 1: almost like an a media empire. How how does your
Speaker 1: family think about you now that you're not a doctor
Speaker 1: or lawyer but you're still successful.
Speaker 3: Now they're asking me, can we sleep on your couch?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: So no, I'm like, by far the most successful one
Speaker 3: in my family now. So it all worked out, but
Speaker 3: it did take. It was really hard in those years
Speaker 3: when nobody believed in me. You know, there was probably
Speaker 3: like five six years where everybody, even though I was
Speaker 3: doing such cool things on the internet, nobody understood it,
Speaker 3: and I was really looked down and like I would
Speaker 3: go to the Thanksgiving and I feel like people were
Speaker 3: really condescending to me and didn't understand what I did.
Speaker 3: And it was really only until like I really just
Speaker 3: had something to show for myself, that they started being
Speaker 3: proud of me and like accepting what I was doing.
Speaker 4: Why did you keep doing it?
Speaker 1: And was there any point you wanted to quit when
Speaker 1: you were kind of confronted with other people's disbelief along
Speaker 1: the way, I.
Speaker 2: Especially your family, I did quit.
Speaker 3: I actually started my career on this journey in broadcasting
Speaker 3: when I was nineteen years old. I quit college to
Speaker 3: take an internship at Hot ninety seven and become Angie
Speaker 3: Martinez's assistant for three years, and I didn't get paid
Speaker 3: as cent. I made money like hosting hip hop showcases
Speaker 3: at night, and I'd have all these like outside online
Speaker 3: radio shows on the side to like hone my broadcasting chops,
Speaker 3: And then I started a blog for three years that
Speaker 3: became super popular, and I almost got to show on
Speaker 3: MTV and that didn't work out, and so I had
Speaker 3: a bunch of failures in a row, not getting a
Speaker 3: job at radio that I worked really hard for and
Speaker 3: worked for free for three years and then ended up
Speaker 3: getting fired from my internship. Then I almost got to
Speaker 3: show on MTV with this blog that I basically again
Speaker 3: worked for free for three years just building this brand,
Speaker 3: hosting parties and doing all these like odd jobs to
Speaker 3: make it work. And then MTV dropped me and then
Speaker 3: I did quit. I literally was like, okay, I got
Speaker 3: to be a normal person. I gotta go, so maybe
Speaker 3: get my MBA, do something different and just get a
Speaker 3: regular job. And for four years before I started young
Speaker 3: in profiting podcasts, I literally just had a normal corporate
Speaker 3: job and I thought I'd never get back on the mic.
Speaker 2: You seem to have like a drive, like you're tenacious,
Speaker 2: and like, honestly, I'm curious to hear your take specifically
Speaker 2: on immigrants and specifically I guess second generation immigrants in
Speaker 2: Americas it seems like that they embrace and live out
Speaker 2: the American dream. I think more than almost any other
Speaker 2: segment in society. Do you think that's the case.
Speaker 3: And yeah, Like I find purpose in work, and I
Speaker 3: do find a lot of people who are like American American,
Speaker 3: they don't they have more of a sense of entitlement
Speaker 3: about their work. And for me, you know, I'm Palestinian American,
Speaker 3: so really crazy time to be one hundred percent Palestinian.
Speaker 3: So it's been a crazy time. But my dad basically
Speaker 3: grew up in poverty, grew up in a war, ended
Speaker 3: up becoming a doctor, ended up becoming a surgeon in America,
Speaker 3: opened up a medical set, and he had like enormous
Speaker 3: drive and literally came from nothing, had no electricity, had
Speaker 3: like no running water, like literally came from nothing. So
Speaker 3: for me, it's just like, you know, I wasn't really
Speaker 3: spoiled growing up because my parents came from nothing, so
Speaker 3: they didn't understand like luxury and like that they and
Speaker 3: they donated a lot of their money, so like I
Speaker 3: wasn't spoiled at all, even though we did really my
Speaker 3: family did really well. But I saw like that anything
Speaker 3: was possible, that you could literally create a lot from nothing.
Speaker 3: And for me, it's just like, well, I basically had
Speaker 3: a silver spoon in my mouth, and what's my excuse?
Speaker 3: So how am I going to make a big impact?
Speaker 3: And really what drives me is that there's really not
Speaker 3: a lot of other girls that look like me that
Speaker 3: are in my position. So now what drives me now
Speaker 3: is the fact that all these brown girls keep messaging
Speaker 3: me like, oh, like because of you, I feel like
Speaker 3: I can be an entrepreneur because if you eve inspired
Speaker 3: me and I need to fill that gap because there's
Speaker 3: maybe there's like five other women that I can think
Speaker 3: of that are in my position right now as a
Speaker 3: brown person woman in America.
Speaker 4: You mentioned your dad.
Speaker 1: It certainly sounds like he's had an impact on you too,
Speaker 1: And is that maybe where you think your work ethic
Speaker 1: came from and your dedication is seeing him come from nothing.
Speaker 1: We talk about like self made in America, Like there's
Speaker 1: the myth of the self made man or something like that,
Speaker 1: and it's a lot easier to become quote unquote self
Speaker 1: made starting out on kind of the third base of
Speaker 1: being in a really rich culture like we live in
Speaker 1: versus actually kind of self made man. Like it says
Speaker 1: like your dad was coming rising out of nothing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what sort of influence did he have on you?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: He was the best. So my dad actually passed away
Speaker 3: during COVID and that was so tough on me because
Speaker 3: he was just like the best human in the world.
Speaker 3: And I think what my dad taught me was generosity
Speaker 3: because he got so successful and he never stopped chopping
Speaker 3: at sears. He like was just really humble and he
Speaker 3: really made it his life's purpose to help everybody around him,
Speaker 3: so he cared more about like his employees getting paid.
Speaker 3: I remember, like if I had like a friend that
Speaker 3: wasn't doing well, he used to give my friends money
Speaker 3: when we'd go to the mall and not even tell me.
Speaker 3: And they told me years later, like, hey, your dad
Speaker 3: used to give me money to the mall, like you know,
Speaker 3: and like he was just like so such a nice
Speaker 3: generous guy. He put all my nieces and nephews through
Speaker 3: college and Palestine and like pulled my whole family out
Speaker 3: of poverty. So he taught me generosity and even now,
Speaker 3: like I'm just like such a generous person, like anybody
Speaker 3: who knows me personally, Like I'm always trying to help
Speaker 3: my employee. Is like my goal of building my company
Speaker 3: as big as possible is actually not I don't really
Speaker 3: care about money, Like in fact, I invest almost everything
Speaker 3: I make back into my company because I just want
Speaker 3: to make an impact. I just want to help people.
Speaker 3: I want to inspire people to live their most fulfilled,
Speaker 3: purposeful lives. And we need powerful people who have money
Speaker 3: to help improve our world. And like that that's my
Speaker 3: drive is like I just want to make the world
Speaker 3: a better place.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you quickly ran through your early career and
Speaker 2: you kind of went through like the blog and then
Speaker 2: possibly the reality show taking off, But your podcast, it
Speaker 2: seemed like that basically started out as a side hustle.
Speaker 2: I think at the time you were working in marketing
Speaker 2: at Disney. Yeah, I guess what was the spark that
Speaker 2: made you want to actually start your own thing. Was
Speaker 2: it that desire to have an impact on the world
Speaker 2: or were you fed up with more the corporate nine
Speaker 2: to five type of raw.
Speaker 3: Honestly, like everything that I've ever done that amounted to
Speaker 3: anything was always like like revenge, you know. So it's
Speaker 3: like I didn't I was like working at Hewlett Packard
Speaker 3: and I was doing great, and I actually thought that
Speaker 3: I was going to be so far behind in corporate
Speaker 3: because when I started my corporate career, I was already
Speaker 3: like twenty eight years old and I literally had never
Speaker 3: had a real job. My resume looked crazy like I
Speaker 3: was interning at a radio station and I was blogging
Speaker 3: for a hip hop website called The Sorority of hip Hop.
Speaker 3: Like I had the craziest resume. But I was actually
Speaker 3: so talented. I was so tech savvy. I could hack
Speaker 3: any social platform, I could video edit. I had all
Speaker 3: these skills that I.
Speaker 1: Had a jack of all trades to really like you know,
Speaker 1: get all those things off the ground exactly.
Speaker 3: So it's like I knew how to do so many things.
Speaker 3: So actually when I got into corporate, I was like
Speaker 3: skipping over people twice my age. And I had my
Speaker 3: last job at Hewlett Packard, which was my first job.
Speaker 3: I was like the C suites pet like doing all
Speaker 3: the qbrs and like really rose up the ranks. And
Speaker 3: at the same time, I was the same person. I
Speaker 3: was the same haula interviewing the CEO and CMO at
Speaker 3: the town hall and going getting flown to all the
Speaker 3: events and on the mic. I was still like on
Speaker 3: the mic all the time, but just in my marketing
Speaker 3: corporate role. And I actually became like the face of
Speaker 3: the young employees at Hewlett Packard, and I was president
Speaker 3: of this thing called the Young Employee Network and I
Speaker 3: did that for two years and it was basically like
Speaker 3: a side hustle within my main job that I worked
Speaker 3: super hard on. And then I wanted to be the
Speaker 3: global young employee president and I was on the global
Speaker 3: board and I had all the credentials, and then they
Speaker 3: this lady who didn't like me, gave it to somebody
Speaker 3: who literally had never been a part of the organization,
Speaker 3: and they didn't even keep me on the board. And
Speaker 3: I was just like mortified because I was like, I
Speaker 3: just literally spent three years volunteering to become the president,
Speaker 3: and everybody thought I was going to be the president.
Speaker 3: And then I realized. I was like, man, I did
Speaker 3: it again, Like I did it a hotday seven, work
Speaker 3: for free, not my own brand. I did it a
Speaker 3: you know, Strawberry want it was mine, but like whatever,
Speaker 3: And then this thing I was working for free and
Speaker 3: it didn't work out, and it was a gatekeeper that
Speaker 3: told me no. And I was like, I'm not doing
Speaker 3: this anymore. If I'm going to build something from now on,
Speaker 3: it's going to be for myself. And so I decided
Speaker 3: I was going to start this podcast. If I couldn't
Speaker 3: lead the you know, seven thousand young employees at Hewlett Packard,
Speaker 3: then I'd go lead all the professionals young professionals on LinkedIn.
Speaker 4: Hey there's millions there, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I was like all right, I'll just do the
Speaker 3: same thing I'm doing here helping all these young people. Now,
Speaker 3: I'll just do it for the public and make my
Speaker 3: own things. So young and profiting was probably inspired by
Speaker 3: the Young Employee Network looking back, and I started this podcast,
Speaker 3: and I started posting on LinkedIn, and then I became
Speaker 3: really quickly an influencer on LinkedIn, and then shortly after
Speaker 3: my podcast started getting some traction.
Speaker 1: We have a lot of questions about LinkedIn that we're
Speaker 1: going to get to in a little bit. But how
Speaker 1: long before you ended up making money? And it's like
Speaker 1: talking hearing your story. A lot of years you're working
Speaker 1: your butt off, you're not really making much if anything.
Speaker 1: How long would you tell someone to keep at it
Speaker 1: before they decide to throw in the towel. When do
Speaker 1: you know that your idea is a failure or how
Speaker 1: do you know if it just needs more time.
Speaker 3: It's so this is such a great question because I
Speaker 3: feel like I'm so happy. I quit so many things
Speaker 3: when I decided to quit, Like I had to quit
Speaker 3: my job at one point to take my podcast to
Speaker 3: the next level. I had to actually shut down my
Speaker 3: blog in order to take on my corporate career. So
Speaker 3: I've had lots of points in my life where I
Speaker 3: had to quit and it made a lot of people upset.
Speaker 3: But you've got to look at yourself right and what's
Speaker 3: the best thing for yourself and future. So, for example,
Speaker 3: with this blog, we were doing it for three years.
Speaker 3: We hadn't really figured out how to monetize the blog
Speaker 3: that well. We were hosting parties, but it was like
Speaker 3: three years of like scraping by, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I just can't see us getting out of this. Like
Speaker 3: the only thing we had was this TV show that
Speaker 3: could have given us some notoriety. Then we didn't get that,
Speaker 3: and I was like, you know what, screw it. I
Speaker 3: could keep at this for another three years or I can.
Speaker 3: You know, for me, I had to find a way
Speaker 3: to sustain myself, and that was corporate. That was an
Speaker 3: easy like, Okay, I'm going to get a nine to
Speaker 3: five job. It's not exactly what I want, but this
Speaker 3: is what I need. I need to be able to
Speaker 3: afford my rent Ford, my car, and build some wealth.
Speaker 3: Because I did experiment for a while and it was
Speaker 3: great and fun, but it wasn't sustainable, and so I
Speaker 3: actually had to do something I did not want to
Speaker 3: do in order to build a foundation. And then when
Speaker 3: I worked into corporate, I quickly got to six figures,
Speaker 3: like so quickly, and then I had a foundation finally,
Speaker 3: and that's when I started my side hustle. And actually
Speaker 3: I was very scarred for having a failed entrepreneurship experience
Speaker 3: early on that it took me a really long time
Speaker 3: to actually quit my job and become an entrepreneur. Even
Speaker 3: though I was making like so much money and having
Speaker 3: so much success, I was scared to quit my job.
Speaker 4: And those were overlapping for a decent trunk.
Speaker 2: Of time, right, it was yeah, okay, So what was
Speaker 2: it then that allowed you to quit? Like was it
Speaker 2: a certain dollar amount? Was it a psychological state that
Speaker 2: you arrived in, Like when did you decide to take
Speaker 2: the leap and transition to YAP full time? Because it
Speaker 2: like it even sounds like you had like a massive
Speaker 2: business with like I think I read it right, you
Speaker 2: had over thirty employees by the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah really quit, Oh my gosh, I really waited a
Speaker 3: long time. My second client was paying US thirty thousand
Speaker 3: dollars a month. That was my second client, and then
Speaker 3: I and then I got like two other clients that size.
Speaker 3: So by the time I quit Disney, I had thirty
Speaker 3: employees around the world and we were making well over
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand dollars a month. In the side hustle,
Speaker 3: I was qotcizing my podcast did I was just all
Speaker 3: the podcast guests that would come on my show. They
Speaker 3: kept asking me for services, and then I just I
Speaker 3: had a volunteer team, so I offered them. I turned
Speaker 3: my volunteer team. This is actually pretty interesting, So I'll
Speaker 3: step back. When I started my podcast six years ago.
Speaker 3: I started on LinkedIn, and I used to have super
Speaker 3: fans that would reach out to me and they'd be like,
Speaker 3: holl I changed my life, Like I've never heard like
Speaker 3: I never like even listen to podcasts before, and now
Speaker 3: I've done X, Y and Z, Like, how can I
Speaker 3: help you? How can I make this bigger? I want
Speaker 3: to learn from you. And again, I was this jack
Speaker 3: of all trades. I could write, I could hack social media,
Speaker 3: I could create websites, graphic design, video editing. I knew
Speaker 3: how to do all the steps and so I would
Speaker 3: just like start teaching people how to. I just started
Speaker 3: recruiting these volunteers and interns, actually fans who would reach
Speaker 3: out to me and I put them in a Slack
Speaker 3: channel and for two years. This is how I was
Speaker 3: able to have a really big podcast for two years
Speaker 3: while working a very serious corporate job, is because I
Speaker 3: had twenty volunteers who worked for free for me for
Speaker 3: two years and super fans and they just wanted to
Speaker 3: learn from me. And then once COVID hit and I
Speaker 3: found myself with a little bit more time, I started
Speaker 3: to just pay attention to what everybody was asking me
Speaker 3: because I started to not feel happy at Disney. I
Speaker 3: felt like HP saw me growing up and like I
Speaker 3: was like a rock start HP and really respected. When
Speaker 3: I went to Disney, I look about ten years younger
Speaker 3: than I really am, and I was treated like an
Speaker 3: intern and I just felt like I didn't have any respect.
Speaker 3: I felt like I was starting from scratch again, and
Speaker 3: I was like, you know what, I need to just
Speaker 3: go out on my own because I know my own
Speaker 3: worth and Disney does not value me. And so I
Speaker 3: started paying attention to what my audience was asking me.
Speaker 3: And it was the guests who came on my show
Speaker 3: at the end of the every almost every time they'd
Speaker 3: be like, how did you go your LinkedIn, how did
Speaker 3: you go your podcast? Can you do this for me?
Speaker 3: And then finally one day Heather Monaghan, who was my
Speaker 3: first client and still my client. She's a huge LinkedIn influencer.
Speaker 3: She wouldn't leave me alone. She was like, uh, your
Speaker 3: videos are so awesome, Like you have to do my videos.
Speaker 3: And then I told her like, hey, like I don't
Speaker 3: have time. You know, I've got this like really stressful job,
Speaker 3: but I can train you on the week I told
Speaker 3: her I'll train her on the weekends. And so we
Speaker 3: started having these like Saturday sessions where I was trying
Speaker 3: to teach her how to video at it and she's
Speaker 3: like holla, like I'm not going to learn how to
Speaker 3: do this. She's like I just had a call with
Speaker 3: Gary Vee's team Vaynermedia. I can pay them more. I
Speaker 3: can pay you like you've got a company. You just
Speaker 3: showed me your slack, you have the team, Like I
Speaker 3: don't understand, Like I'll be your first client. You don't
Speaker 3: even like your job at Disney. She was like starting
Speaker 3: to become my mentor. She was like just do it
Speaker 3: and I was like okay. So she was my first
Speaker 3: client and she paid us like nothing and then, like
Speaker 3: I said, my second client was a billionaire and I
Speaker 3: landed like a thirty thousand dollars monthly retainer with him
Speaker 3: for like LinkedIn and podcast production. And then I was
Speaker 3: able to start hiring my volunteers and paying them and
Speaker 3: start hiring more people. And then before I knew it,
Speaker 3: six months later, thirty employees around the world, like super
Speaker 3: high level clients making over one hundred k month found
Speaker 3: out I was going to be on the cover of
Speaker 3: podcast magazine. And that's what true. I was like, well,
Speaker 3: I mean I probably made it. If I'm getting on
Speaker 3: the cover of podcast magazine, I should probably quit my job.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 1: Your story so inspiring, and I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: we can learn just from you telling it. But then
Speaker 1: there's a lot of specifics we need to get into
Speaker 1: as well. The jack of all trades I refer to,
Speaker 1: you know a lot about a lot of things. We
Speaker 1: want to talk about tips for other people starting their
Speaker 1: own business. We'll get to that and more right after this.
Speaker 2: All right, we are back talking with Halla Taha, and
Speaker 2: we want to kind of talk about starting your own business.
Speaker 2: We want to talk about entrepreneurship before we transition to
Speaker 2: that I'm curious you quickly glossed over the fact that
Speaker 2: you that you went back to get your MBA. So,
Speaker 2: if I heard you right, dropped out of school to
Speaker 2: take that initial radio internship, but then somehow you ended
Speaker 2: up with your MBA. How did all that come together?
Speaker 3: I have to say, my college career is a hot mess.
Speaker 3: So I got to college and I went to a
Speaker 3: very nerdy tech school and I was like miss popular.
Speaker 3: But you know, it was a new feeling for me
Speaker 3: because in high school, like when I was in high school,
Speaker 3: nine to eleven happened and I'm Arabic, and it was
Speaker 3: like really weird, like like the teachers were weird to me,
Speaker 3: Like I never really got opportunities, Like I tried out
Speaker 3: for the cheerleading team, I didn't make it. I tried
Speaker 3: out for the volleyball team, I didn't make it. I
Speaker 3: used to be the lead in all my school plays
Speaker 3: in middle school, and in high school they wouldn't even
Speaker 3: let me in the talent show. And I literally had
Speaker 3: the best voice in school, but my hands down, it
Speaker 3: was really like a like they were really racist, Like
Speaker 3: I was one of the only brown people in school.
Speaker 3: It was like totally like a really white town. And
Speaker 3: so when I got to college, I went to a
Speaker 3: really diverse college and then suddenly it was like an
Speaker 3: equal playing field, and I just was like overwhelmed with
Speaker 3: wanting to do every activity. So I was like in
Speaker 3: the radio club, I was captain of the cheerleading team,
Speaker 3: I was in my like on the board of my sorority.
Speaker 3: I did everything but go to class. Literally did not
Speaker 3: go to class. I never went to class. And I
Speaker 3: did really well working, but I wasn't good at being
Speaker 3: a student. I was like obsessed with this job at
Speaker 3: Hot ninety seven and this internship, and I became like
Speaker 3: super obsessed with it. They asked me to start coming
Speaker 3: in every day. The way that it works in radio
Speaker 3: is you basically just pay your dues for many years
Speaker 3: at least a Hot any seven and it's essentially an
Speaker 3: illegal internship, right, so they just kept Angie was like
Speaker 3: can you come here every day? And I was like sure,
Speaker 3: And then I just dropped out of school. And I
Speaker 3: was already I was doing really bad in school anyway,
Speaker 3: so I felt like, okay, I'm I'm failing out of
Speaker 3: school anyway. I think I had like a two points.
Speaker 3: I had the worst GPA, like a two point something GPA,
Speaker 3: like I was a hot mess. But I was doing
Speaker 3: amazing at hot ninety seven and actually I've sang my
Speaker 3: whole life, like I was saying. So I thought that
Speaker 3: I was going to be at Hot ninety seven and
Speaker 3: I was pushing my music. I was singing and songwriting,
Speaker 3: and I was pushing my music on the DJs, and
Speaker 3: I thought that I was taking that internship to become
Speaker 3: a singer and make it. But then I fell in
Speaker 3: love with broadcasting and I wanted to be like the
Speaker 3: next Angie Martinez, and they had me doing commercials and
Speaker 3: then that's that's how I became, like this love of
Speaker 3: being what I do today, right.
Speaker 2: You and Joel both with the love of broadcast.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the radio background.
Speaker 1: I used to fall asleep listening to talk radio, which
Speaker 1: is the weirdest thing. Like everyone thinks that I'm psychotic
Speaker 1: because of that, but I would fall asleep listening to
Speaker 1: to boring AM talk radio. I just loved it, and
Speaker 1: I loved that kind of medium of communication, long form audio.
Speaker 1: It just has a power to it that television doesn't
Speaker 1: even have. So yeah, I get it. I get it,
Speaker 1: and there is a bond a connection you can have
Speaker 1: with your audience. I think when they hear you in
Speaker 1: their ear holes for like three hours a week or
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of our listeners it was like
Speaker 1: one episode out of three or whatever. But however much
Speaker 1: you listened to, you get to know us because you
Speaker 1: can't help, but get to know that person, which I
Speaker 1: think is beautiful about totally audio.
Speaker 3: And then just like back to your original question and
Speaker 3: I'll be really fast. I know this was like a
Speaker 3: long winded answer, but I ended up getting fired from
Speaker 3: Hot ninety seven. So imagine getting fired from a free internship. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I was like the queen of the interns, I
Speaker 3: please leave the Obviously they obviously valued me. But what
Speaker 3: happened was is that a paid job opened up and
Speaker 3: I basically texted my friend who got the job, and
Speaker 3: I was supposed to train him even though I was
Speaker 3: working for free. They wanted me to go into work
Speaker 3: and train the person who they're going to pay to
Speaker 3: do the job that I was already doing for free.
Speaker 2: It's pretty cold, yeah, it was cold.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so then I was like, sorry, guys. I
Speaker 3: was like, his name is Drewskie. Sorry, Drewskie. If you
Speaker 3: want to learn how to be the producer. Learn it
Speaker 3: on your own. I'm not going to work, and she
Speaker 3: cut off my key cards. She also didn't like. It
Speaker 3: was really cruel. She didn't let me say bye to anyone.
Speaker 3: She told everybody they can't talk to me anymore. These
Speaker 3: were all my best friends, my mentors. I literally dropped
Speaker 3: out of school for them, and so it was devastating,
Speaker 3: and I just remember feeling like a part of me
Speaker 3: died because I had branded myself as Holla from Hot
Speaker 3: ninety seven. This is what everybody knew me as all
Speaker 3: my social handles were halla from Hot niny seven, and
Speaker 3: it literally felt like somebody died. But then I quickly
Speaker 3: thought of this other idea to start this blog. And
Speaker 3: at that point I went back to school and I
Speaker 3: was a totally different person. I was a completely different person.
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, I was getting straight a's. I
Speaker 3: graduated my senior year straight a's. Now to get into
Speaker 3: my MBA, my GPA was still so terrible. I actually
Speaker 3: had to convince our director of Graduate Studies to allow
Speaker 3: me in the program. I lobbied myself and I would
Speaker 3: write her emails, and then finally she agreed to have
Speaker 3: coffee with me, and then I told her my story
Speaker 3: and she was in rest and she was like, okay,
Speaker 3: I'll let you in the program. She's like, especially if
Speaker 3: you can maintain a four point oh. And I was like,
Speaker 3: all right, I'll do it. I promise I'll get a
Speaker 3: four point Oh. I got a four point oh, and
Speaker 3: I graduated number one in my class and that's how
Speaker 3: I got into corporate.
Speaker 4: So nice.
Speaker 1: Okay, this shows so much persistence and hustle and grind.
Speaker 1: And I guess I'm curious because there's been a lot
Speaker 1: of kind of poo pooing on hustle culture, you know,
Speaker 1: and they're to a certain extent, I totally see where
Speaker 1: that comes from. That it's possible to overdo it right
Speaker 1: And a lot of people are tired of hearing the
Speaker 1: hustle culture pitch. But you were, you know, grinding in
Speaker 1: all these side hustles you were, you were working without pay,
Speaker 1: and then you were also like, look what you did
Speaker 1: to get your MBA. I mean, it's so impressive. What's
Speaker 1: your take on hustle culture? Is it overdone? Is it underdone?
Speaker 1: Like we have we kind of missed the same.
Speaker 3: I think there has to be a point in your
Speaker 3: life where you are hustling. And for me and even
Speaker 3: in your twenties and Gary Visa's this all the time,
Speaker 3: like you can hustle and make no money. But for example,
Speaker 3: like my company's on track to make ten million dollars
Speaker 3: next year, and that would not be possible had I
Speaker 3: not worked for free in my twenties and learned all
Speaker 3: the skills that I did, had I not worked in
Speaker 3: the mall and learned all the skills that I did.
Speaker 3: Like so for me, it's like, there's like you need
Speaker 3: to hustle because you need to get the skills. And
Speaker 3: that's the thing that I feel like is missing from
Speaker 3: all these young people. They're not taking the time to
Speaker 3: get the skills. They want all the shortcuts. But you
Speaker 3: build the character and the and the skills and the
Speaker 3: expertise through all the grunt work that you do. And
Speaker 3: so for me, it was like, I'm so thankful for
Speaker 3: all those experiences, even though they didn't pan out to anything,
Speaker 3: because that's how I'm making millions today. It's from all
Speaker 3: the hard work that I did years ago and didn't
Speaker 3: get paid for.
Speaker 2: That makes sense I hadn't. You know. It's funny because
Speaker 2: I feel like the hustle culture grinding it out that was.
Speaker 2: I feel like it really got big five, six, seven
Speaker 2: years ago and everyone was picking up side gigs. They're
Speaker 2: side hustling, and I feel like it's almost fallen out
Speaker 2: of favor to a certain extent because folks are like,
Speaker 2: who wants to do that? You know, folks are quiet
Speaker 2: quitting now. But I hadn't thought about it from the
Speaker 2: standpoint that you are, which almost is more from like
Speaker 2: a social cultural side of things, like and even us
Speaker 2: me as an adult, like, our patience is not what
Speaker 2: it used to be. The immediate gratification that we can
Speaker 2: receive by how responsive an app is on our phone,
Speaker 2: the ability to post something and immediately see alike. That
Speaker 2: isn't good for our psychees, right. It erodes our ability
Speaker 2: to persevere, I think, And I think that's one of
Speaker 2: the downsides of technology specifically. But I had not thought
Speaker 2: about side hustling as just a means of formation and
Speaker 2: the ability for youth, especially to I guess, to be
Speaker 2: able to learn from that.
Speaker 1: It's almost like you're a Swiss Swiss army knife of
Speaker 1: a human being too, because it's all these like disparate
Speaker 1: skills that you pick up along the way and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: this one in and of itself isn't tear valuable, but
Speaker 1: when it's combined with these other four things, it makes
Speaker 1: me like superhuman and now I can run a podcast network.
Speaker 1: I mean, And I think that's what we fail to
Speaker 1: maybe see in the moment sometimes is that each one
Speaker 1: of those skills, as we're acquiring them, is going to
Speaker 1: lead to something bigger and brighter, even if it's not
Speaker 1: like the one thing we're going to coast on for
Speaker 1: the rest of our lives.
Speaker 4: I will say. So.
Speaker 2: The difference that as well, between the side gig apps
Speaker 2: and what it is that Halla is doing is that
Speaker 2: she's like, you were pursuing things that were incredibly meaningful
Speaker 2: to you, were that would hopefully lead to something bigger.
Speaker 2: You weren't just trading your time for money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's so many things that I want to say.
Speaker 3: One thing related to what you guys said is like,
Speaker 3: this is something that Jason Pfeiffer taught me, and looking
Speaker 3: back at my story, I always did this. You have
Speaker 3: an opportunity set A and an opportunity set B and
Speaker 3: everything that you do. So for example, when I worked
Speaker 3: at Hewlett Packard. My opportunity set A was the job
Speaker 3: they paid me for. Opportunity set B was all the
Speaker 3: other stuff that I was doing. I was president of
Speaker 3: the Young Employee Network, planning the holiday party, planning the
Speaker 3: summer picnic, going to all these other events. When I
Speaker 3: worked at Hot ninety seven, my opportunities at A was
Speaker 3: being Angie Martinez, his intern. But on the side, I
Speaker 3: had online radio shows. I was blogging for DJ and off,
Speaker 3: I was hosting showcases at night. So it's like I
Speaker 3: always looked at like, not only the opportunity that they're
Speaker 3: paying me for, but what are the opportunities to learn
Speaker 3: and grow?
Speaker 4: You know, you probably don't get the opportunity to do
Speaker 4: some of those radio shows.
Speaker 1: Without being the intern, right, Like that is the foot
Speaker 1: in the door to get the extra opportunity. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I did an unpaid internship in radio as well. And
Speaker 1: some people would say that's unconscortable to make somebody work free,
Speaker 1: but are you kidding me?
Speaker 4: Like it gave me the opportunity in so many ways.
Speaker 1: It could give me the connections and the working experience,
Speaker 1: and it was crucial to who I am. Now let's
Speaker 1: talk about marketing. Okay, your podcast is great, and the
Speaker 1: product is of course crucial to success, but given the
Speaker 1: amount of noise in the podcasting space, like even a
Speaker 1: great podcast could wallow in obscurity, I think, and a
Speaker 1: lot of times these days, just given how many there are,
Speaker 1: talk to us about the marketing piece of the puzzle,
Speaker 1: and maybe then how we can extrapolate that to everyone
Speaker 1: else out there listening who doesn't have a podcast but
Speaker 1: has something marketable, whether it's themselves or a business they owned.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so really it's all about like creative problem solving.
Speaker 3: Right When I first started in podcasts, for two years,
Speaker 3: it was like very slow, steady growth because I just
Speaker 3: kept doing the same thing that everybody else was doing,
Speaker 3: like trying to rank on Apple. All I cared about
Speaker 3: was Apple because it had like seventy percent of the
Speaker 3: market share, maybe it was sixty percent of the market share,
Speaker 3: and that's all I paid attention to. And then I
Speaker 3: started thinking about, like, what are the other ways that
Speaker 3: I can be a successful podcaster, Like does being a
Speaker 3: successful podcaster mean that I have to be the top
Speaker 3: of the charts on Apple or could it mean something else?
Speaker 3: And then I started realizing, well, there's seventy other apps
Speaker 3: out there. There's Spotify, there's Google Play, there's cast Box,
Speaker 3: there's player from there's all these other apps. What if
Speaker 3: I reached out to them and see if they want
Speaker 3: to collaborate. Because I had grown a platform on LinkedIn,
Speaker 3: I had grown an audience on LinkedIn, and I thought
Speaker 3: I can leverage LinkedIn in order to grow my podcast.
Speaker 3: And that's how you have to think. If you have
Speaker 3: any sort of business, you can trade audiences with people.
Speaker 3: And the key to do that is to have one
Speaker 3: thing that you can leverage. And this is the mistake
Speaker 3: that people make. They go omni channel right away and
Speaker 3: they're like, Okay, I'm gonna be on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok,
Speaker 3: email list da da da da. When I first started,
Speaker 3: all I cared about was LinkedIn. I didn't even post
Speaker 3: on Instagram. I was like, I'm going to be the
Speaker 3: number one podcaster on LinkedIn. And I figured out how
Speaker 3: the algorithm worked, I figured out how the features worked,
Speaker 3: I figured out out how to build a community proactively,
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, I figure that out
Speaker 3: before podcasting even and so suddenly I had sixty thousand followers.
Speaker 3: Now I have way more. But back then I had
Speaker 3: sixty thousand. That was something that I could now trade.
Speaker 1: Why'd you choose LinkedIn? Like, for anybody who's out there
Speaker 1: listening and they're saying, I thought LinkedIn for was like
Speaker 1: my dad's suit photo?
Speaker 4: Why guys?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah to why linked it just seems so
Speaker 1: the hot places are TikTok and Instagram tala.
Speaker 4: Don't you know that? Like why LinkedIn?
Speaker 3: LinkedIn is so great? There's one hundred and thirty five
Speaker 3: million active users on LinkedIn, and only six percent of
Speaker 3: them are original content creators, so there's very little competition.
Speaker 3: There's lots of eyeballs on LinkedIn. It's also an amazing
Speaker 3: place to be an entrepreneur because people are primed for
Speaker 3: sales conversations. It's a professional platform. People are actually using
Speaker 3: LinkedIn LinkedIn in their research for their buying journeys, and
Speaker 3: because it's branded as this professional network where people are
Speaker 3: going to learn and solve their problems, having a sales
Speaker 3: conversation is really welcomed on that platform, where if you
Speaker 3: try to have a sales conversation on Instagram, it's a
Speaker 3: little weird because it's so personal. Right, Lincoln is a
Speaker 3: professional platform that does have a feed and has a
Speaker 3: social algorithm just like any other platform. So LinkedIn's absolutely
Speaker 3: amazing and it changed my life, Like, I'm so thankful
Speaker 3: that I started my journey on LinkedIn. And then the
Speaker 3: other reason was just pure luck. I was shadow band
Speaker 3: on Instagram for because a Palestinian. They've been shadow banning
Speaker 3: Palestinians for years.
Speaker 4: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fascinating to hear so much adversity that you've faced,
Speaker 2: I mean, starting in basically high school.
Speaker 4: Yeah for you.
Speaker 2: But I mean I really do want to hear more
Speaker 2: about LinkedIn though, and specifically it makes so much sense
Speaker 2: because it's fertile ground for business transactions to take place.
Speaker 4: And so we're going to take a quick break.
Speaker 2: But after that, we've got a bunch more questions about
Speaker 2: LinkedIn and we'll get to all that right after this.
Speaker 4: Har we're back. We're still talking with Tala Taha.
Speaker 1: We're talking about building a podcast, building a brand, marketing,
Speaker 1: getting the word out there. And it is one thing
Speaker 1: to create a great product, and that is difficult in
Speaker 1: and of itself, to create something consistently good that people
Speaker 1: want to listen to or that people want to engage with. Holly,
Speaker 1: you're talking about using LinkedIn to actually reach your audience,
Speaker 1: and for a lot of people, that's the toughest thing.
Speaker 1: And it feels like especially social media, man, if you
Speaker 1: strike it, if you strike gold, you can hit the
Speaker 1: algorithm right and you'll be rewarded and you might help
Speaker 1: they might help you find your audience. But you're saying
Speaker 1: that LinkedIn was the place for that. How okay? Talking
Speaker 1: about maybe through some of the nitty gritty what are
Speaker 1: you posting, how are you engaging? What does it look
Speaker 1: like for you to actually grow your podcast on LinkedIn.
Speaker 3: In terms of like right now? I mean, my strategies
Speaker 3: were really different. Right. So, initially when I was trying
Speaker 3: to grow my podcast, what I did is I traded
Speaker 3: my audience. So what I did is I reached out
Speaker 3: to all the different podcast players out there, all every
Speaker 3: single tool I used, my hosting provider, my like recording
Speaker 3: platform riverside that we're on right now. I literally reached
Speaker 3: out to every single podcast, brand player or not, and
Speaker 3: I was like, Hey, I'm the biggest podcaster on LinkedIn.
Speaker 3: I'd love to write a post about you in exchange
Speaker 3: for you posting me on your website featuring me and
Speaker 3: your app, putting out an email blast for me. That's
Speaker 3: when my podcast blew up because suddenly I was getting
Speaker 3: all this exposure outside of LinkedIn, and I was trading
Speaker 3: my audience. So that's the first way that I grew
Speaker 3: my podcast. Now, you know the best way to grow anything,
Speaker 3: forget about a podcast, let's just talk about any business
Speaker 3: and anything that anybody has, is to re target your content. Okay,
Speaker 3: so what does that mean? You put up a post
Speaker 3: and it's about your podcast, or you put up a
Speaker 3: live stream of your fully edited podcast, which is my
Speaker 3: favorite thing to do on LinkedIn. Anybody who likes comments
Speaker 3: or shares is basically raising their hand and saying like,
Speaker 3: you've got permission to dm me. I took the first action.
Speaker 3: I took the first behavior here, and you have permission
Speaker 3: to dm me. And no matter what you say, you're
Speaker 3: not going to be spammy or salesy because I took
Speaker 3: the first action. So you would say something like, hey,
Speaker 3: I noticed that you just engaged on my live stream.
Speaker 3: If you want to check out the full episode, here's
Speaker 3: the link. We'd love to hear back from you, you know,
Speaker 3: then they write back something positive, Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Can you copy and paste that as an Apple podcast review.
Speaker 3: Really appreciate it. So creating all these drip campaigns are
Speaker 3: called where you retarget your posts. So you could do
Speaker 3: this with anything. If you could put up a poll
Speaker 3: on LinkedIn and say, like, let's say you're a real
Speaker 3: estate agent, you could say, are you in the market
Speaker 3: for a new house?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 3: Or no? Anybody who says yes, you can say, hey,
Speaker 3: I noticed that you engaged on my pole that you're
Speaker 3: looking for a new house. I'd love to help you.
Speaker 3: Here's a free resource and you can drive them down
Speaker 3: your funnel. So retargeting your own posts is a really
Speaker 3: great way to drive sales and momentum. And yeah, like
Speaker 3: I know everything about LinkedIn, so happy to talk about algorithms,
Speaker 3: engagement wherever you want to go.
Speaker 2: I'm curious to know do you think everybody, regardless of
Speaker 2: what they do, should everybody have a LinkedIn profile? Because
Speaker 2: I'll be honest in presence right like, I don't. I'm
Speaker 2: not up there at all. You never even created I
Speaker 2: think I've created a profile, but I cannot remember the
Speaker 2: last time I've logged in there.
Speaker 4: So I've created all. I don't think I've ever posted
Speaker 4: and raked me over the coals yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're not going to bother posting or
Speaker 3: taking care of it, don't bother at all. You know,
Speaker 3: like you're not going to get any traction if you're
Speaker 3: not going to invest the time. So I would say, like,
Speaker 3: until you're ready to start posting at least three times
Speaker 3: a week, I wouldn't even bother because you're just not
Speaker 3: going to get anywhere.
Speaker 4: Okay, So you need to post regularly.
Speaker 1: What else do you need to do to drive engagement
Speaker 1: if you're looking to kind of yeah, grow your presence, grow.
Speaker 4: Your reach there.
Speaker 3: Okay, so a couple things. Let's talk about utilizing the features.
Speaker 3: So every social media platform has different features that they're prioritizing. Okay,
Speaker 3: So on LinkedIn, it's actually not a video first platform.
Speaker 3: It's not trying to compete with Instagram and TikTok and
Speaker 3: so video content actually performs pretty poorly on that platform.
Speaker 3: So the assets that do perform well are typically pictures
Speaker 3: with like some sort of story that goes along with it,
Speaker 3: a quote card that's like a really easy to read,
Speaker 3: skimmable quote. Okay. Live streams work well on LinkedIn. Polls Okay,
Speaker 3: So it's understanding the features that work for every single platform.
Speaker 3: That's super key. The other thing to think about is
Speaker 3: people are on their phone, okay, so when it comes
Speaker 3: to your assets, video or graphic, you want to make
Speaker 3: them vertical and take up as much real estate as
Speaker 3: possible so that when people are scrolling in their feed,
Speaker 3: they're scrolling through about nine posts that you're actually taking
Speaker 3: up a lot of real estate on the feed a
Speaker 3: crowd everybody else out exactly, so it's going to draw
Speaker 3: more attention, people have more to look at. You actually
Speaker 3: get ranked based on how much time people spend on
Speaker 3: your posts, so it's like they've or to look at,
Speaker 3: So it's really important to do that. The other thing is,
Speaker 3: you know, being skimmable. Okay, if you look on LinkedIn,
Speaker 3: you'll see a lot of the influencers are doing this
Speaker 3: like line by line copywriting. It's called brow atry, and
Speaker 3: that's actually on purpose. LinkedIn's algorithm is actually scanning for formatting,
Speaker 3: and if you have big, chunky paragraphs that are really
Speaker 3: hard to read, nobody wants to do work on social media.
Speaker 3: That's like being the boring person who's lecturing at a party, right,
Speaker 3: So being skimmable right is really important. And the last
Speaker 3: tip that I'll give is that keywords are becoming increasingly important.
Speaker 3: So LinkedIn's moving away from just basing things on engagement.
Speaker 3: So in the past, anything motivational inspirational would go like
Speaker 3: skyrocket on LinkedIn, like you could be like, you know,
Speaker 3: sky's the limit, get a million likes, you know, like
Speaker 3: it was just like anything motivational did amazing, right, And
Speaker 3: now it's all about experts and interest relevancy. So they're
Speaker 3: basically doing a lot of keyword matching, so you've got
Speaker 3: to have more. It's more seu.
Speaker 2: It's like linked sounds like it's turning into Google exactly.
Speaker 3: So it's like you need to infuse your profile with
Speaker 3: keywords that might be found in your target audience's profile,
Speaker 3: and then you need to infuse those keywords in your
Speaker 3: actual posts. And then LinkedIn is doing a better job
Speaker 3: of matching people who want similar content with your content,
Speaker 3: especially if you're somebody that they've identified as an expert
Speaker 3: in the topic that you're talking about, so you might
Speaker 3: have that like LinkedIn top voice badge, or even if
Speaker 3: like your past job history has the same keywords, or
Speaker 3: you've been like recommended for skills in that area, they'll
Speaker 3: identify you as an expert and start serving your content
Speaker 3: to people who want it. So keywords are becoming increasingly important,
Speaker 3: very cool.
Speaker 2: Specifically, you're talking to content creators, folks who might be
Speaker 2: trying to gather together an audience. Do these same tactics
Speaker 2: and utilizing some of these same features. Does that also
Speaker 2: work for someone who's basically looking for just a great
Speaker 2: paying job with a like more of a corporate gig.
Speaker 2: Does that Does it also translate?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So a lot of the people that I work with,
Speaker 3: I have a LinkedIn masterclass, and most of them are entrepreneurs, coaches,
Speaker 3: They've got some sort of small business. But then I
Speaker 3: do have a lot of corporate professionals. And what happens
Speaker 3: is that it gives you more stability in the corporate world.
Speaker 3: I even started my journey on LinkedIn in the corporate world,
Speaker 3: and I remember immediately that, like I started getting more opportunities,
Speaker 3: more exposure. I was getting noticed by higher ups and
Speaker 3: even somebody today. I have a mastermind. Her name's Anita.
Speaker 3: She was telling me that she in her job that
Speaker 3: like everyone now is taking notice and asking her about LinkedIn,
Speaker 3: and she's getting more visibility from higher ups because of
Speaker 3: everything that she's doing on LinkedIn. So a lot of
Speaker 3: people get scared of using their LinkedIn for their own
Speaker 3: personal benefit, But that is a transferable asset. You've got
Speaker 3: to think that if you're in corporate you might want
Speaker 3: to switch jobs one day, you might want to start
Speaker 3: your own thing. This is your way to start building
Speaker 3: that foundation while you have the stability of a full
Speaker 3: time job. So I always encourage people to start building
Speaker 3: their personal brand. You need that more than ever now.
Speaker 3: Even when people are looking to give you a job,
Speaker 3: they want to see you having some sort of personal
Speaker 3: brand and presence. So I think it's a win win
Speaker 3: for everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, taking some time to be regular, to kind of
Speaker 1: become a thought leader in your industry, it's only going
Speaker 1: to be good for you. It's only going to bring
Speaker 1: you connections and potentially job offers as well. Question for
Speaker 1: you when you're posting on somebody else's site, especially one
Speaker 1: of these tech companies, and the algorithm determines what everyone's
Speaker 1: going to see you're alluding to it. That can change, right,
Speaker 1: and so it favors one thing over another at different times,
Speaker 1: and it can diminish your voice too, and it can
Speaker 1: really after you've spent years building something, it can kind
Speaker 1: of pull the rug out from under you. I was
Speaker 1: talking to someone the other day and they built up
Speaker 1: a pretty substantial Twitter following and then boom, Twitter changes
Speaker 1: the algorithm and it feels like their post is yelling
Speaker 1: into the void. So how do you think about And
Speaker 1: I think that's why people have prioritized newsletters because it's
Speaker 1: this direct connection to your audience. Full control, Yeah, nobody
Speaker 1: can really take away. So how do you think about
Speaker 1: building and spending so much time creating on the platform
Speaker 1: that you don't have as much control of.
Speaker 3: It's a really good point, and it's something that you know,
Speaker 3: I've been thinking about a lot because even I'm LinkedIn's
Speaker 3: like one of their top creators, and they've even done
Speaker 3: like some shadow banning with me recently because of like
Speaker 3: the whole war that's going on or it's tough, and
Speaker 3: I am a really big advocate of email lists, so
Speaker 3: I've been like driving all of my following to webinars
Speaker 3: where I'm collecting everybody's email and like rapidly growing my
Speaker 3: email list. Because it's true these platforms can change. They
Speaker 3: can also decide to specifically target you based on your beliefs,
Speaker 3: which is really crazy, Like one day we're going to
Speaker 3: look back and we're gonna we won't be able to
Speaker 3: believe that all of this was legal. To be honest,
Speaker 3: it is really really messed up what they're doing to
Speaker 3: people based on beliefs, which is like totally unfair.
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing how a few people working at
Speaker 1: a tech company can have such a domino effect on
Speaker 1: all the rest of us and we just think, oh,
Speaker 1: this is the way the technology operates, but no, there's
Speaker 1: human control and human input into how it operates exactly.
Speaker 3: But long story short, and this is actually going to
Speaker 3: be the topic of my first book, is that algorithms
Speaker 3: always change, but human behavior doesn't. So algorithms change all
Speaker 3: the time, but a lot of the stuff that I
Speaker 3: teach in marketing and and my classes and stuff is
Speaker 3: human behavior because human behavior never changes. And LinkedIn literally
Speaker 3: has a goal to make sure that when something goes viral,
Speaker 3: they are actually studying it to find out how that
Speaker 3: happens so it doesn't happen again. They don't want like,
Speaker 3: you know, just one percent of the creators having all
Speaker 3: the impressions. They want it to be more flat, where
Speaker 3: it's just like experts delivering content to people who want it, right,
Speaker 3: So they're actually not wanting people to go viral, but
Speaker 3: they can't control at the end of the day, what
Speaker 3: makes people click the share button. Yeah, they can try
Speaker 3: all they want, but human behavior doesn't change. Right, So
Speaker 3: it's just like understanding what are the things that I
Speaker 3: need to do that are evergreen that no matter what
Speaker 3: platform might go on, it's going to work because human
Speaker 3: psychology doesn't change.
Speaker 2: I love the things that serve and help people selves,
Speaker 2: Like a promising book is what us sounds like? Yeah, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: So on your podcast, you always ask folks what is
Speaker 2: the secret to profiting in life? Oh, so we're gonna
Speaker 2: actually turn the tables back on you a little bit.
Speaker 2: We're curious to hear your response. What is it that
Speaker 2: allows folks to profit the most of life?
Speaker 3: What is the secret to profiting in life? I think
Speaker 3: I'm going to tie it back to what we were
Speaker 3: talking about earlier, and that's I think the reason why
Speaker 3: I've been really successful is because I fully absorbed myself
Speaker 3: in whatever I'm doing. When I started a podcast, I
Speaker 3: didn't just learn how to be a good interviewer. I
Speaker 3: didn't just learn how to put on the recording software
Speaker 3: and figure out the equipment, and I looked at everything.
Speaker 3: How can I grow, How can I monetize, How can
Speaker 3: I you know, create a business out of this? I
Speaker 3: looked at every single nook and cranny and figured it
Speaker 3: all out. And that's how I became successful. I wasn't
Speaker 3: the best podcast host. I'm still not the best podcast host,
Speaker 3: but I'm literally like number eighty seven podcast in the world.
Speaker 3: Why because I just figured I figured out what I
Speaker 3: am good at within the whole realm of podcasting, and
Speaker 3: I just milked every little inch that I could and
Speaker 3: figured it all out, you know. So it's like I
Speaker 3: meet a lot of podcasters now, for example, that like
Speaker 3: don't know how to monetize or don't and to me,
Speaker 3: it's like mind boggling how they didn't learn their entire industry,
Speaker 3: even if they're not the best at every single part,
Speaker 3: but like fully understanding the landscape of what they're trying
Speaker 3: to play.
Speaker 1: In, right.
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of that has to do
Speaker 3: with like absorbing yourself, not being afraid to learn, like,
Speaker 3: you know, being willing to roll up your sleeves and
Speaker 3: do the nitty gritty, like eventually you can outsource things,
Speaker 3: but you should know how to do everything yourself first,
Speaker 3: you know, So it's like learning the skills, really absorbing yourself,
Speaker 3: not being afraid to learn, and just again like learning
Speaker 3: things A to Z and not trying to find shortcuts
Speaker 3: to your success.
Speaker 1: That's great advice, Paula, thank you, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us today. Where can our listeners find out
Speaker 1: more about you and what you're up to?
Speaker 3: Thanks guys, I really had a great time. Young and
Speaker 3: Profiting is the name of my show. I interview the
Speaker 3: brightest minds in the world, and it is a fantastic show.
Speaker 3: You can listen, learn and profit over there. You can
Speaker 3: also find out more about my company at yapp Media
Speaker 3: that's Yapmedia dot io. And there you can find out
Speaker 3: about my social agency, my podcast network, which is the
Speaker 3: number one business and self improvement podcast network. I've got
Speaker 3: podcasters like Jenna Kutcher, John Lee Dumas, Amy Porterfield and
Speaker 3: my networks, so it's really growing fast. And then if
Speaker 3: you guys want to learn about LinkedIn, I have a
Speaker 3: two day workshop. You guys can actually use code h
Speaker 3: TM for thirty five percent off at Yapmedia dot Io.
Speaker 3: Slash course that's.
Speaker 2: Right, and we'll make sure to link to all of
Speaker 2: that in our show notes. Halla, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for taking the time to speak with us today.
Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much.
Speaker 4: All Right, man, that was a good one. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of good take Owa.
Speaker 1: I was like talking to people who do stuff that's
Speaker 1: outside of my area of expertise and like LinkedIn are linked,
Speaker 1: I'm on there have I I don't know if I,
Speaker 1: like I said, ever posted a single thing, So I
Speaker 1: think I exist in the ether there.
Speaker 2: I think I did at one point and it was
Speaker 2: literally it's funny enough it was. I think it was
Speaker 2: for SEO purposes and this is like fifteen years ago,
Speaker 2: but just as far as getting certain domains registered, not
Speaker 2: domains registered, but accounts registered, just to be able to
Speaker 2: point to certain resource. But like she mentioned, it doesn't
Speaker 2: really matter unless you are active. It takes it takes
Speaker 2: a rolling up your sleeves and doing the work, which
Speaker 2: and she's the kind of person lose to my takeaway.
Speaker 4: So that, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: I think my big takeaway has to do with the
Speaker 2: fact that she was honing in on skills there at
Speaker 2: the end, like for her, that was that was going
Speaker 2: to be the secret to profiting and life and going
Speaker 2: back to internships and kind of doing the grunt work.
Speaker 2: A lot of times folks are looking for the shortcut.
Speaker 2: They're looking for the easiest way to arrive at the destination,
Speaker 2: and oftentimes that's a high paying position. But by taking
Speaker 2: the shortcuts, you've missed out on so many different opportunities
Speaker 2: to learn skills. And these are skills that are going
Speaker 2: to come in handy all throughout your life. I guess
Speaker 2: I really and I commented on that during our conversation
Speaker 2: with her, but I really appreciate her view towards hustling
Speaker 2: and working hard just as a way that we learn
Speaker 2: in and how we're formed as individuals. I thought that
Speaker 2: was really important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Basically, I mean what you're referring to is it's
Speaker 1: kind of it's known as talent stacking, and I think
Speaker 1: it was the author Scott Adams that came up with
Speaker 1: that term. But that is it's a powerful thing to
Speaker 1: be able to say, oh, all these disparate things, well
Speaker 1: they randomly come together and make me really successful at
Speaker 1: this thing. And so you might already have a bunch
Speaker 1: of different talents, Well, it's wise to sit back and
Speaker 1: think how can I put those together in a way
Speaker 1: that's going to help me maybe do more with these
Speaker 1: talents that I'm currently doing. So lots of times you
Speaker 1: have the talents and you never know how they're going
Speaker 1: to come together. But it is Yeah, you're right, like
Speaker 1: putting in the hard work to develop those talents and
Speaker 1: then trying to fuse them into something maybe that's never
Speaker 1: been done before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has a multiplying effect, but at least in
Speaker 2: that way. Yeah, which I totally agree with what you're saying.
Speaker 2: But I guess my point though, is, don't be afraid
Speaker 2: of the hard work, especially early on when like we
Speaker 2: have visions of what success looks like. And what's hard
Speaker 2: to keep in context is the fact that the folks
Speaker 2: who arrived at that point, it took them a long
Speaker 2: time to get to that. It makes me even think
Speaker 2: of like our parents, think about the cars that they
Speaker 2: drive or the home that you grew up in, and
Speaker 2: you go out on your own and you think, well,
Speaker 2: I got to at least have something like that, except
Speaker 2: for you forget that it took them like fifteen or
Speaker 2: twenty years to get to that point, and we want
Speaker 2: it instantly against the peep of cryptocurrency, right, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: it's just it's the shortcuts that get rich quick schemes,
Speaker 2: and there's not enough being said about putting in the
Speaker 2: time and doing the hard work.
Speaker 1: Yep, all right, So people, I like when she said
Speaker 1: that you absorb yourself in the thing that like it
Speaker 1: was probably a lot of trial and error on LinkedIn
Speaker 1: for her to get where she is, but it's kind
Speaker 1: of the thing that anybody can do. You just have
Speaker 1: to absorb yourself in it. You have to really go
Speaker 1: after that task and you know, and fail sometimes in
Speaker 1: order to see the ultimate successes. So and Holla isn't
Speaker 1: afraid to admit that she failed a bunch of times
Speaker 1: along the way, or that she at least had some
Speaker 1: really tough times, had some years that she put in
Speaker 1: a lot of work and then didn't feel.
Speaker 2: Like she causted failure. Yeah, she was fired from her internship,
Speaker 2: like that's that's rough. Yeah, yeah, or failure in school
Speaker 2: and then going back and succeeding.
Speaker 4: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I love this stick to itiveness. I love that she
Speaker 1: was absorbing yourself in in everything that she did and
Speaker 1: and willing to I like to it's not just the job,
Speaker 1: it's those secondary opportunities that came along. Whether it's in
Speaker 1: a professional career, whether it's in an internship, it's if
Speaker 1: you do the bare minimum, guess what, you're not gonna
Speaker 1: be rewarded in an incredible way. But if you're willing
Speaker 1: to go above and beyond and jump into those other things,
Speaker 1: it's not only potentially going to make you more visible
Speaker 1: within that work work environment, but it's also going to
Speaker 1: be adding to those talents you're developing too.
Speaker 4: Most most definitely, yeah.
Speaker 2: The opportunity set A, but don't forget about opportunity set
Speaker 2: B as well as lurking like right around the corner
Speaker 2: right there for you. But all right, man, let's quickly
Speaker 2: introduce the beer that you and I enjoyed during this
Speaker 2: episode was how do you say that? Chakaua? Yeah, Chakurra
Speaker 2: chak Rua. It's a barrel aged Imperial stouts and this
Speaker 2: is by a Moat Mountain Brewing Company in collaboration with
Speaker 2: Tamworth Distilling. Evidently because it was Asian and rye whiskey barrow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's must that must have been where they got their
Speaker 2: their barrels. So this beer was donated to the show
Speaker 2: by Todd who is in our old neighborhood.
Speaker 4: Lives literally right down on the same street that I
Speaker 4: lived on, literally.
Speaker 2: In between I think, in between you and me down
Speaker 2: there in Ormwood Park.
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, dude. He brought back a few beers from
Speaker 1: his trip to I want to say a New Hampshire.
Speaker 4: Is where this was from. I think, So, what did
Speaker 4: you dig it? I did?
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it, so tasty. What's better than you know,
Speaker 1: a Rye whiskey barrel aig styt It was and Rye
Speaker 1: whiskey adds that pepless peppering right and a little spice action,
Speaker 1: so I feel.
Speaker 2: Like it offset the sweetness that you would typically sometimes
Speaker 2: is a little too much when it comes to an
Speaker 2: imperial style like this, Like obviously you've got the toasty,
Speaker 2: roasty notes, but sometimes with a higher ABV it can
Speaker 2: be a little sweet.
Speaker 4: But yeah, you get a touch of that rye a barrel.
Speaker 2: It just adds, adds so much more depth and flavor.
Speaker 2: It was fantastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks Todd, appreciate you, man. But that's going to
Speaker 1: do it for this one, Matt. Until next time, best friends,
Speaker 1: our best friends out.
Speaker 2: You can't fool