1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,600
Speaker 1: Just a quick heads up. This episode mentions domestic violence

2
00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:10,200
Speaker 1: and sexual abuse. There Are No Girls on the Internet

3
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 1: as a production of My Heart Radio and Unboss Creative.

4
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,160
Speaker 1: I'm Bridget Todd and this is there Are No Girls

5
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:24,480
Speaker 1: on the Internet. Actor an activist Evan rachel Wood is

6
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 1: among the at least sixteen women who have come forward

7
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,680
Speaker 1: to make allegations of abuse against musician Brian Warner, who

8
00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,360
Speaker 1: you probably know better by his stage name Marilyn Manson.

9
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,360
Speaker 1: Now the allegations are truly horrific, and Evan rachel Wood

10
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: says that Warner sexually assaulted her during a taping for

11
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,360
Speaker 1: the music video for his song Heart Shaped Glasses. Now,

12
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,120
Speaker 1: I joined my friends Sam and Annie over at the

13
00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 1: podcast stuff. Mom never told you to talk through why

14
00:00:49,840 --> 00:01:01,280
Speaker 1: this is actually a technology and platform accountability issue. Hey,

15
00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha. I don't come to Stephane.

16
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:15,040
Speaker 1: Never told your protection of I Heart Radio And today

17
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 1: we are thrilled to once again be joined by the amazing,

18
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,840
Speaker 1: fantastic Bridget Todd. Hi, Bridget, thanks for joining us. Oh,

19
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,679
Speaker 1: I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me.

20
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 1: Always such a pleasure to be joining you ladies. An

21
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:35,240
Speaker 1: happy belated birth Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I had a birthday.

22
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 1: I almost kind of forgot because it happened in a

23
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,399
Speaker 1: weird time, but thank you. You were in the middle

24
00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,759
Speaker 1: of your travels, right, Yeah. I was in Austin, Texas

25
00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,399
Speaker 1: for south By Southwest. It's not a bad place to

26
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,520
Speaker 1: spend your birthday, but it kind of happened very quickly,

27
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,280
Speaker 1: and I kind of forgot about it. I was getting

28
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 1: on the plane to go back home and the person

29
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 1: who checked my idea was like, oh, happy belated birthday,

30
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 1: and I said, oh, that's right, I did not have

31
00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,800
Speaker 1: a birthday. Thank you. Yeah. I think someone recently asked

32
00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 1: me how how old I was, and I like paused

33
00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,400
Speaker 1: to think about it. Um, get back to you on that.

34
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, how was your south By Southwest experience? It

35
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 1: was good and it was interesting. You know, it was

36
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 1: the first time they had done it since COVID. It

37
00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 1: was cool. I have to shout out the fact that

38
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,320
Speaker 1: probably every other panel or like talk, like speech or

39
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,639
Speaker 1: talk that I saw was a trans person or a

40
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 1: non binary person really speaking out against some of the

41
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 1: like horrific legislation we've seen in Texas. And there were

42
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,480
Speaker 1: lots of women speaking out about like the horrible abortion

43
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,240
Speaker 1: legislation in Texas. So even though it felt a little

44
00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,200
Speaker 1: bit strange to be in Texas, I was I left

45
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,640
Speaker 1: so empowered and engaged and like leaned into the fight

46
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,520
Speaker 1: to um, you know, really create change. And so I

47
00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,880
Speaker 1: have to really shout out a lot of you know,

48
00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 1: abortion advocates, trans advocates that I'm sure being in Texas

49
00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,280
Speaker 1: was like tough for them, but I really have to

50
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 1: shout out how incredible it was for them to make

51
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,960
Speaker 1: space to open up conversations about legislation that is harming

52
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,359
Speaker 1: their community. So it was good. Yeah, I love that

53
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,320
Speaker 1: because I know, like it's kind of so difficult to

54
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,120
Speaker 1: be in an area where it's so toxic to you

55
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,480
Speaker 1: as a person, as a human being going through your

56
00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 1: life and then feeling like, yeah, you know what, I

57
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,640
Speaker 1: can't leave because I have to fight this. There's just

58
00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,440
Speaker 1: that double whammy. But that is amazing to hear that

59
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,800
Speaker 1: such an event, which is an international event, was able

60
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,600
Speaker 1: to push forward that conversation. Absolutely. I mean, I really think,

61
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,000
Speaker 1: like shout out to all of those people who I

62
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 1: don't even say I'm not even like, I think they

63
00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,840
Speaker 1: took the space for themselves, and I think that was

64
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 1: the right thing to do. Yeah, awesome, that's that's amazing.

65
00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 1: And we were discussing before this one. Um, this is

66
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,760
Speaker 1: a topic that is so important that you brought to today.

67
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a downer, but it's incredibly important

68
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,280
Speaker 1: and and I think like we're going to have a

69
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,360
Speaker 1: lot of there's a lot of nuance with this that

70
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate that you brought to it. So what did

71
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,400
Speaker 1: you bring for us to discuss today, Bridget Yeah, as

72
00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 1: you said, it's a little bit of a rough topic.

73
00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,719
Speaker 1: So you know we're gonna be talking about sexual assault

74
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,680
Speaker 1: and you know, domestic violence and abuse, so just know

75
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,360
Speaker 1: that going forward. So you know my podcast, there are

76
00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,120
Speaker 1: no girls on the Internet. It's really all about the

77
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,360
Speaker 1: ways that issues that maybe don't seem like tech issues,

78
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,680
Speaker 1: issues that impact women and other traditionally marginalized people. You know,

79
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,560
Speaker 1: they might not be seen as tech issues, but they're

80
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,800
Speaker 1: very much tech issues. And today's topic, I think is

81
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,520
Speaker 1: a really great example of what I mean. So today

82
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,200
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the platform YouTube and their

83
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,960
Speaker 1: failure to remove a video of actor and activist Evan

84
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,799
Speaker 1: rachel would being sexually assaulted. So it is really important

85
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,520
Speaker 1: to me, you know, as someone who makes a tech

86
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,240
Speaker 1: podcast and cares about technology and works in technology to

87
00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 1: talk about this and especially frame it not as kind

88
00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,520
Speaker 1: of a quote celebrity story, which I seen it really

89
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,120
Speaker 1: framed as, or even worse as a quote he said,

90
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,640
Speaker 1: she said, which is obviously not correct because that kind

91
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,480
Speaker 1: of framing, I think really lets tech companies that are

92
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,039
Speaker 1: involved off the hook. I'm sure these tech companies like

93
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,280
Speaker 1: YouTube would love it if this story was not framed

94
00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:19,960
Speaker 1: as a tech accountability story and it was just a

95
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, celebrity story. But unfortunately for them,

96
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 1: that's I'm not framing it that way. I am framing

97
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,920
Speaker 1: it as a tech accountability story because that's what I

98
00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 1: believe that it is. That's amazing because we literally were

99
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 1: just talking about an episode which came out when which

100
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 1: TikTok I talked about the fact that are allowing these

101
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,479
Speaker 1: really bad, like really misogynistic jokes about killing women on

102
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,200
Speaker 1: dates essentially and allowing it saying it's not violating anything,

103
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 1: is just a joke, and it's kind of like, wait,

104
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,359
Speaker 1: where's the accountability. No, you are allowing this rhetoric that

105
00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 1: people are just latching onto, which is so toxic and

106
00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,120
Speaker 1: harmful and dangerous for women in general. So we need

107
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 1: to have a conversation about why you are accountable for

108
00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,599
Speaker 1: these things. But I digress, because let's hear about exactly

109
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,520
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, especially with Van rachel Wood. I

110
00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,440
Speaker 1: think I know a little bit about it, but if

111
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,880
Speaker 1: you can just kind of go into that absolutely, So

112
00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,000
Speaker 1: here's what's happening with Evan rachel Wood. Basically would have

113
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,040
Speaker 1: spent a few years now advocating for survivors of sexual

114
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 1: violence and abuse, and when she's done this, she's often

115
00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,680
Speaker 1: referenced her own you know heretofore unnamed abuser, but on

116
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,920
Speaker 1: February one, would publicly named her abuser. In a message

117
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,919
Speaker 1: on Instagram. She wrote, the name of my abuser is

118
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,480
Speaker 1: Brian Warner, also known to the world as Marilyn Manson.

119
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,240
Speaker 1: He started grooming me as a teenager and horrifically abused

120
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,760
Speaker 1: me for years. I am here to expose this dangerous

121
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,600
Speaker 1: man and call out the many industries that have enabled

122
00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,040
Speaker 1: him before he ruins any more lives. And so a

123
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 1: quick note for people who are listening, you will probably

124
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,040
Speaker 1: be more familiar with Brian Warner as his stage name

125
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,279
Speaker 1: as a musician Marilyn Manson, but I am not going

126
00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 1: to call him Marilyn Manson in this episode, and I

127
00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,960
Speaker 1: have basically stopped calling him Marilyn Manson in general, because

128
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,880
Speaker 1: I think it adds to this mythology that Brian Warner

129
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,240
Speaker 1: has created around himself, and I believe that he has

130
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 1: exploited that mythology to continue to abuse women. I'll talk

131
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,080
Speaker 1: a little bit more about what I mean later in

132
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,480
Speaker 1: the episode, but when I say Warner Brian Warner, I'm

133
00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,880
Speaker 1: referring to the musician whose stage name is Marilyn Manson,

134
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 1: whose actual name is Brian Warner. And Evan rachel Wood

135
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 1: is not alone. Several women, including women who are not

136
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 1: famous and don't have a public profile like she does,

137
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 1: have made similar claims against Warner. So far, sixteen women

138
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 1: have accused Warner of sexual abuse, and four have sued

139
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 1: him for sexual assault. So, you know, I said earlier

140
00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,680
Speaker 1: that people were mistakenly framing it as he said she said,

141
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,040
Speaker 1: so even though that framing is not correct, Even if

142
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:46,920
Speaker 1: that is how you were framing it, it wouldn't really

143
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 1: be a he said, she said. It would be more

144
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,800
Speaker 1: like a he said, She said, She said, she said,

145
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:57,480
Speaker 1: she said, you know sixteen times. Ye, at the very

146
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 1: least exactly. I mean, like who, like who even knows

147
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, this is what we know about. That's a

148
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,480
Speaker 1: really good point. Yeah, yeah, And I remember when this

149
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,920
Speaker 1: came out and when it first came out this kind

150
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 1: of news, but it's recently I saw it come up

151
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 1: again that Warner is kind of pursuing a legal a

152
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,440
Speaker 1: legal battle of his own against her. So can you

153
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,560
Speaker 1: go into more like what is going on right now? Right?

154
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,760
Speaker 1: So this you know, we were talking about this when

155
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,760
Speaker 1: Evan rachel Would first named Warner as her abuser back

156
00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 1: in one. But the reason why we're talking about it

157
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,080
Speaker 1: right now is because Evan Rachel would just released a

158
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,599
Speaker 1: new documentary which you can watch on HBO Max, the

159
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 1: two part documentary called Phoenix Rising that really chronicles her story.

160
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,680
Speaker 1: As you might imagine, it is a difficult watch. I

161
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,240
Speaker 1: watched the first part of it and I had to

162
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: take a break from the second part, which was watching

163
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,439
Speaker 1: last night, because it's a little I mean, as you

164
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,120
Speaker 1: might imagine, it's not the easiest watch. So just if

165
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 1: you're planning on a watch it, just know that. So

166
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,360
Speaker 1: the movie, it's it's interesting in that it starts ostensibly

167
00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,439
Speaker 1: as a kind of Aaron Brockovich style story chronicling would

168
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 1: successful campaign to pass the Phoenix Act, which is an

169
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: legislation that extends the Statute of Limitations on domestic by

170
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,439
Speaker 1: us in California. But during filming, when Would publicly names

171
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 1: Warner as her own abuser, the film begins to follow

172
00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 1: that aftermath, and so the documentary really chronicles her upbringing

173
00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,200
Speaker 1: her her work to become a you know, survivor advocate

174
00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,920
Speaker 1: and domestic domestic abuse advocate, you know, trying to pass

175
00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,320
Speaker 1: this legislation, and then kind of pivots when we see

176
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 1: her publicly name Warner as this person who had abused

177
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,800
Speaker 1: her that she had been referencing as her abuser for

178
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:53,760
Speaker 1: so long in network. And I know when we were

179
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,600
Speaker 1: originally seeing all of this come out, because I remember

180
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 1: seeing her testify before the name was coming out, and

181
00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,680
Speaker 1: found the Senate trying to talk about the Statute of

182
00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 1: limitations and going into this whole conversation. And how quickly

183
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,559
Speaker 1: after the fact she shown herself as the survivor advocate

184
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,000
Speaker 1: and she named him, how many people came behind her like,

185
00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,480
Speaker 1: oh my god. This is why this is familiar as

186
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,720
Speaker 1: well as the fact, when she described some of the

187
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,160
Speaker 1: events that happened to her, many women already came out

188
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,479
Speaker 1: because they had gone through some similar things, um including

189
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 1: how they met. So can you kind of talk about

190
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:30,079
Speaker 1: their relationship specifically Warner in Woods, I really like how

191
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 1: you have framed that because I think that in her situation,

192
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,960
Speaker 1: so many other women spoke up and said, this was

193
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,080
Speaker 1: exactly what happened with me. He did this to me,

194
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,880
Speaker 1: you know her her sit and I also think just

195
00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,319
Speaker 1: her situation is really familiar to me. And I think

196
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 1: anybody who is dealt with domestic violence or sexual abuse

197
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,640
Speaker 1: by an intimate partner, the way that he operated in

198
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,600
Speaker 1: the beginning might be kind of familiar. So Wooden Warner

199
00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 1: met at a party at Chateau Mormant when she was

200
00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,400
Speaker 1: eighteen and he was thirty seven. They maintained that tonic

201
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,080
Speaker 1: friendship where Warner would talk to her about things like

202
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,760
Speaker 1: her favorite books and her favorite artists. Then the two

203
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,160
Speaker 1: started to date. Now she describes this as a kind

204
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,080
Speaker 1: of grooming and love bombing situation where you know, early

205
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,000
Speaker 1: on he was referring to her as his soulmate and

206
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,559
Speaker 1: really was making her feel like he was the only

207
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,000
Speaker 1: one who really got her, really loved her. Early on,

208
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 1: she describes him kind of starting to isolate her from

209
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,360
Speaker 1: her friends and family, and that was the beginning stages

210
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,800
Speaker 1: of their early romantic relationship. And so at this point,

211
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, you might be thinking, you know, why would

212
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 1: someone like Evan Rachel would get involved romantically with someone

213
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,040
Speaker 1: like Warner who was known for these shocking, kind of

214
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,000
Speaker 1: gross antics on stage. And that kind of really goes

215
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: back to why I'm not going to call him quote

216
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,920
Speaker 1: Marilyn Manson, And I think that big part of that

217
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,520
Speaker 1: is because Warner's public persona as Marilyn Manson, really helped

218
00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: him get away with gross abusive behavior in public. So

219
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,560
Speaker 1: if you were a young person like me in the nineties,

220
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,319
Speaker 1: you might remember that after the Columbine school shooting in

221
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,720
Speaker 1: nineteen Warner was legitimately unfairly blamed for the deaths of

222
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,439
Speaker 1: fifteen young people after it was misreported that the Columbine

223
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,000
Speaker 1: shooters were big fans of his music and that his

224
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,480
Speaker 1: music motivated them in the shooting. You know, at this time,

225
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 1: politicians were lobbying to have his performances banned, citing these

226
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:28,120
Speaker 1: really over the top, exaggerated, outlandish, untrue claims things like

227
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 1: at his shows, that he would have the security guards

228
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 1: spiked the drinking water at the shows and give it

229
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,920
Speaker 1: to young kids in the audience, or that he was

230
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,480
Speaker 1: engaging in bestiality on stage, or like ripping apart animals.

231
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,440
Speaker 1: Warner's legal team actually sent the American Family Association a

232
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 1: cease and desist for saying that he encouraged kids to

233
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,520
Speaker 1: engage in violent sexual acts from the stage in the audience.

234
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,560
Speaker 1: And so none of that was true, and Warner countered

235
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 1: these legit unearned, unfair responses to the threat that his

236
00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,800
Speaker 1: music posts to kids by doing these sort of the

237
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: very thoughtful, measured interviews where he was able to portray

238
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:09,200
Speaker 1: himself indirect opposition to this outlandish onstage persona that these

239
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,439
Speaker 1: politicians and conservative figures were sort of demonizing. And so

240
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,040
Speaker 1: as he was being demonized by these people and sort

241
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,200
Speaker 1: of you know, them making up these outlandish exaggerations and

242
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,240
Speaker 1: claims about him, he was able to really present himself

243
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:27,320
Speaker 1: as this measured, thoughtful, reasonable person. And one interview that

244
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:28,839
Speaker 1: release sticks out to me if anyone has seen the

245
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 1: documentary Michael Morris Bowling for Columbun there's a sit down

246
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,079
Speaker 1: segment with Marilyn Manson where he says things like, oh,

247
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,400
Speaker 1: the young people who perpetrated the Columbine shooting would have

248
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,480
Speaker 1: been safer had they purchased my cd s, you know,

249
00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,520
Speaker 1: rather than buying guns, and so he can remember specifically,

250
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:52,439
Speaker 1: he comes off as this very thoughtful, measured, nuanced guy,

251
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 1: and it really created this, um, I don't know, this

252
00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 1: sort of portrayal of him as someone who was being

253
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,720
Speaker 1: unfairly maligned, and thus some of his other behavior was

254
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,680
Speaker 1: really able to go unscrutinized because it was so clear

255
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,080
Speaker 1: he was being unfairly demonized for this behavior that he

256
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,839
Speaker 1: never actually engaged in, like he wasn't actually spiking the

257
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,040
Speaker 1: drinking water at his shows and having sexts with animals

258
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,760
Speaker 1: on stage right. And I know we're going to get

259
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 1: into this more later because I have a lot of

260
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 1: thoughts about all of this, and as I said, you

261
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:25,680
Speaker 1: do such a great job of like there are a

262
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,880
Speaker 1: lot of nuances to this conversation. But I remember I

263
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 1: listened to Marilyn Manson when I was really young, and

264
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 1: I had a friend who was her parents really conservative,

265
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,640
Speaker 1: and they know jokes, showed up at my mom's house

266
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,240
Speaker 1: and yelled at my mom for letting their daughter listen

267
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:48,440
Speaker 1: to it, and it became such a point of It's like,

268
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 1: it didn't have to become this point, but it became

269
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 1: such a point of like, oh, you, you conservatives don't

270
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 1: get it. You're trying to like hold me down and

271
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,160
Speaker 1: you don't understand, and like, I feel so outcast son,

272
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,280
Speaker 1: you'll never get it, and it they're kind of outrage

273
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 1: made it into a bigger thing than it would have

274
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 1: been if they had never said anything. Oh my gosh,

275
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 1: I have the same exact experience, right, So I was

276
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 1: a kid, I was in junior high. I'd just say, hey, damn,

277
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,640
Speaker 1: I'll say and you know, I was like an ALTI

278
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,200
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I was like a goth kid, but

279
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,880
Speaker 1: I was saying very alt. And I totally had the

280
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,840
Speaker 1: same experience. I ate up this idea that he was

281
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 1: being unfairly persecuted, and I, you know, I felt like

282
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 1: I was being unfairly persecuted as this like weirdo ALTI

283
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,440
Speaker 1: kid as a junior high student. Never mind the fact

284
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 1: that like that wasn't actually necessarily happening. That's just like

285
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,920
Speaker 1: how I felt because I was a teenager, and I

286
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 1: think he really really used that exact thing as a

287
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 1: way to avoid accountability for his other behavior, and I

288
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 1: honestly I agree with you. You know, I listened to

289
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,920
Speaker 1: Warner's music a lot as a youth, and I really

290
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 1: really liked him. Like at a poster a Marilyn Manson

291
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,560
Speaker 1: poster in my locker next to a Prodigy poster Prodigy,

292
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 1: and I think that, like, I listened to all different

293
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 1: kinds of music, but the only music that had this

294
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 1: kind of over the top, exaggerated, like uh climate around

295
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 1: it was Marilyn Manson, and so that fed into the

296
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 1: idea that he was being unfairly persecuted at the time.

297
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,240
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if people remember what it

298
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 1: was like to be a young person after Columbine, if

299
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 1: you were like a little all tea or if you

300
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 1: were all black, it did kind of feel like, you know,

301
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,840
Speaker 1: the powers that be were cracking down on who you

302
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,000
Speaker 1: were in the aftermath of that shooting. And so I

303
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 1: think that had there not have been such a backlash

304
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 1: to the music Warner's music when it has been another

305
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 1: in a mixed bag of stuff that I liked, you know,

306
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,320
Speaker 1: I liked Prodigy, I like Somepice girls, I like so

307
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 1: many different things, but because of this over the top

308
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 1: response to his music, it pushed me that much further

309
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 1: into this kind end of I don't know, dangerous vibe

310
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,240
Speaker 1: where he gets to position himself that's unfairly persecuted at

311
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 1: anybody who doesn't like him or his behavior is just

312
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,680
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't get it and doesn't get you edny

313
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 1: seen treating I like it. Well, I will say I

314
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 1: was older than you. Also, I'm like, yeah, I wasn't. Okay, everyone,

315
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,400
Speaker 1: we're not going to the time frame of this, but

316
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 1: I do find that interesting that we have this conversation

317
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,280
Speaker 1: because absolutely remembering all of the politicians coming in and

318
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 1: saying this is this kind of that whole time frame

319
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,200
Speaker 1: around the matrix as well as video games and blaming

320
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,280
Speaker 1: all of these things. Uh, but also how they like

321
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,840
Speaker 1: to over demonize kind of like how it's happening with

322
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,160
Speaker 1: Q and on and when we talked about sex trafficking,

323
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 1: and that they are doing so much theatrical things that

324
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 1: that made no sense, that it's overshadowing the actual problems

325
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,159
Speaker 1: that are happening and therefore exactly like taking attention away

326
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 1: from the true crimes or the things that are so

327
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 1: horribly wrong because it is being overshadowed by the caricature

328
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,239
Speaker 1: of accusations merely for a platform, merely for politics, and

329
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,119
Speaker 1: it's so obnoxious because yeah, because of that, Marilyn Manson

330
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,919
Speaker 1: got this credibility for being um misunderstood a as you

331
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 1: had already said. And then also he's able to use

332
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 1: that now as a part of his defense today. But

333
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,879
Speaker 1: I know we're gonna be able to talk about that

334
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,439
Speaker 1: in a minute, absolutely, I mean. And then also, like

335
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,960
Speaker 1: what you just said, isn't it interesting how the American

336
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 1: Family Association and all these politicians we're trying to banish

337
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,919
Speaker 1: shows we never did much about guns though. That was

338
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 1: just like we we had the conversation about violent video games,

339
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 1: the Matrix, black clothing, trench coats, Bran Warner, but not

340
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,719
Speaker 1: the guns. So it's exactly what you just said of

341
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 1: kind of an intense overreach that reaches to the wrong cause,

342
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,679
Speaker 1: I guess. And then let's the real cause just go

343
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 1: on analyzed. Yeah, and I think that, Um, something that's

344
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:01,400
Speaker 1: been on our minds a lot lately is this idea

345
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 1: of consent and how our environment is really set up

346
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 1: where true consent for women is almost impossible and this

347
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 1: situation being such a grooming situation where you have this

348
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 1: person coming in who is much older and who was

349
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: showing you with attention. And I was saying recently on

350
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 1: an episode, like I'm ashamed to admit it, but I

351
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,719
Speaker 1: shouldn't be because I was raised to be this way.

352
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 1: But like when I was eighteen and people can't call me,

353
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 1: I'd be like flattered, It's be good. Oh my gosh,

354
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: I have desirability. That means I have value, um, and

355
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 1: that put me in some unsafe situations. So this I

356
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,199
Speaker 1: hate this. I hate that she was young and there

357
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 1: was this older person that she respected and she was

358
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 1: getting this attention and it's just absolutely predatory, absolutely praying

359
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:54,360
Speaker 1: on her. Yeah, I mean I can really identify. I'll

360
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,200
Speaker 1: just say that. And it's one of those things where

361
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily realize until you're older. And I mean

362
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 1: it applies in this situation too. I want to I

363
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: want to be careful about how I speak about this

364
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 1: because it is part of the conversation. But when Evan

365
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 1: Rachel Wood was in a relationship with Marilyn Manson early on,

366
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: and keep in mind she's eighteen, she's very young. I

367
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: remember very clearly her an interview saying like, oh, people

368
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: need to stop saying that I'm being taken advantage of

369
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 1: or groomed. And I think it's easy for people to say, like, oh, well,

370
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: now we're supposed to believe her when she says that

371
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,640
Speaker 1: she's being that she was being groomed or commerced. Well,

372
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 1: she was eighteen when that happened. She was eighteen when

373
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: they met. Like, you're so young, and so it's completely

374
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 1: tracked with my own personal experiences that you might not

375
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,160
Speaker 1: have the world experience or just the life experience, or

376
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, your own understanding of your place in the

377
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 1: world at eighteen. It might take a few years for

378
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: you to look back on that and say, hey, I

379
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: was being coerced, or hey, you know I was being groomed,

380
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 1: or hey, something's happened that shouldn't have happened, and I

381
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 1: didn't have the language or the voice yet to say

382
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: I don't want this to happen. And I think that's

383
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,919
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why this story is one that

384
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 1: needs to be told, because I think that's all of us.

385
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 1: I think that's so many of our stories. It's so common.

386
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 1: I think it's completely unfair to use that as a

387
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: reason to not support survivors, not listen to survivors, because

388
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 1: it is so common. I think that big portion of

389
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: this conversation is that the early sexualization of young girls

390
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: point blank is part of this problem because I know

391
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: a lot of this conversation. When Evan Rachel Woods came

392
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 1: out in her acting career, she was thirteen fourteen and

393
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: came out with this big indie film that pretty much

394
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: talked about young women growing older real quick, trying to survive,

395
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 1: and thinking the way to survive is to be sexual

396
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 1: and grown like that was the whole basis of the movie,

397
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: which has the whole conversation in itself. But because of that,

398
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 1: because of things like that, that's where she came into

399
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 1: the eighteen year old and no one, no one listening

400
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: to the fact that this is grooming, like I don't

401
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: care if she's legal now, which is which is a

402
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: bullsh term. The whole barely legal books that I really

403
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 1: want to push everybody in the face every time they

404
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: say it. That's that conversation is really sexualizing these young

405
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: girls and telling them they are of more worth because

406
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: they're acting grown, because they are finally in their way

407
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: of being a woman and finding out and not having

408
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 1: the support and understanding or people even letting her know

409
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 1: the whole concept of consent and why that is a

410
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: big conversation that needed to be had way back when,

411
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: and because of that feeling trapped because she is being told,

412
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 1: this is what you put yourself in. You knew what

413
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: you were getting into, which is the formula of all

414
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: of the victim blaming which we see today that has

415
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: not gone away that for some reason is used by everyone,

416
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: not just men, women all between, because it's so hard

417
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 1: to let go of that internalized misogyny of saying, but

418
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: you knew absolutely, And she explicitly says that in some

419
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 1: of the things that experiences that happened to her that

420
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: we'll talk about in a moment, like she explicitly says

421
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: exactly what you're referencing that you know, she had internalized

422
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: that she was meant to just go along with whatever,

423
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: and that was that was like what she was supposed

424
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: to do. And that is something that I think that

425
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: we all internalized and we have to sort of like,

426
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 1: I know that I have a lot of un learning

427
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: to do around you know, at like saying no when

428
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: something doesn't feel right, or when you know, And for

429
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: me it has been a lifelong process, and so it

430
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: sounds like for her she had to learn that as well.

431
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: And as you said, I mean, it starts so early,

432
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 1: and eighteen really is so young. You know. She talks

433
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: about how when she first met Brian Warner, she said

434
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: that she really liked him at what he stood for,

435
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: and she wrote in his in her journal that she

436
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: thought that he was the hero and the spokesperson of misfits,

437
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: and I it just really does sound like he did

438
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: a very a job of making her feel like that

439
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,719
Speaker 1: was true, that she maybe felt like a misfit, and

440
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: that he was an advocate for people who felt like

441
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: they didn't belong, and that he really used that persona

442
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: to continue to abuse women and girls pretty much in public.

443
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: There's this great piece in the Atlantic that sums it

444
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: up nicely called Marilyn Manson told us what he was.

445
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: It sums it up very nicely. They right, if we

446
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: believe would And more than a dozen women who have

447
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: accused Manson of abuse. Then a strange twist is that

448
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: the aftermath of Columbine seems to have enabled Manson to

449
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: become what Would's brother describes in the documentary as quote

450
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: a wolf and wolf's clothing. The hysterical invented accusations leveled

451
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: at Manson then that he molested children on stage, killed animals,

452
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: had a security guards, drug underaged fans with liquid ecstasy,

453
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: minimized other things that might have been happening in plain sight.

454
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: But they also allowed Manson to detach his artistic persona

455
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: from himself and allowed others to infer that anything offensive

456
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: he did was just perform him art winking commentary on

457
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: America's hypocritical and a moral core. And that to me

458
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: really sums up why I'm not comfortable calling him quote

459
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: Marilyn Manson, because you know, inventing this persona and saying

460
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: that its performance art should not be a way to

461
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: avoid and excuse accountability for your own abusive behavior. And

462
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 1: I believe that's what the Marilyn Manson persona has allowed

463
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: him to do. Hello, Kanye West, exactly, exactly, thank you.

464
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all it's all part of the same,

465
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: like the abusive ball of yarn right genius artistic like

466
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: it's I can talk all day about this, but it's

467
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: all like two sides of the same messed up coin. Well,

468
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: That's what I'm referencing that Kanye literally is hiding a

469
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: little bit behind Brian Warner about bringing him on stage

470
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: and putting him as like he's an ally because we're

471
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: the same, and you're like, yeah, you are. That should

472
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: tell you something, Yeah, I like, I remember, I had

473
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: I had forgotten until you just mentioned that he brought

474
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: him up on stage during his Easis tour, And you know,

475
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: I think it was meant to be like all of

476
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: these malign people who don't understand our genius. And it's like,

477
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: you're right, I don't understand your genius. I think it's abusive, yes, yes,

478
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: And I think you're hiding behind that to get away

479
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: with it. And that's problem exactly, exactly exactly, this is

480
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: his thing. And in interviews, Warner pretty much is open

481
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: and in public about some of the abusive behavior that

482
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: he has put Wood through. You know, he's hot. In

483
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: a pretty notorious Spin interview, he talks about how he

484
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: fantasized about smashing her head with a sledgehammer, or how

485
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: after they broke up and she stopped taking his calls

486
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: that every time I called her that day and I

487
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: called her a hundred and fifty eight times I took

488
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: a razor blade and cut myself on my face and

489
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: on my hands. But then later he is able to say, oh, well,

490
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: I didn't really mean those things, or I didn't really

491
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: feel those things. I didn't actually do those things. I

492
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: was just playing a character. And I believe that that

493
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: excuse allows him to skirt accountability for his actual behavior.

494
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: As Brian Warner, you can't say that that was just

495
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: me playing a rock and roll character who was Marilyn

496
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,959
Speaker 1: Manson when you have an actual partner who was accusing

497
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: you of abusing her. Yeah, And it's really terrifying because

498
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: we're also seeing this in politics form, seeing politicians being like, oh,

499
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: that was just a joke and you didn't get it right,

500
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: like doing that same sort of thing, and that's been

501
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: that's been really damaging. And also I again, I grew

502
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: up listening to a lot of like punk rock and

503
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: email of the like two thousands early two thousands, and

504
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: we were just talking about this, like the lot of

505
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: the lyrics and that, which is a lot of men

506
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: singing about like pretty much hating women, um and blaming

507
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: them for their sort of violent actions. And then and

508
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: also the TikTok thing you were talking about. Man, it's

509
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: the same thing. We're seeing it again, like being like, no,

510
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: I mean that's just that's just who I am, that's

511
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: my that's how expressed myself. You took it too seriously. Yeah,

512
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: I mean I completely agree. And maybe it's because I'm

513
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: older now I'm going back and thinking like, wow, I

514
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: was listening to music that was like there's this brand

515
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: new song where he's like, have another drink and drive

516
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: yourself home. I hope there's ice on all the rooms,

517
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: and it's like that's pretty like like I was like

518
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: a very young person screaming along to lyrics that were

519
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,959
Speaker 1: pretty dark. And you know, I'm someone who like I

520
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: love I love music, and I think people should listen

521
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: to what moves them, but we should also be a

522
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: little critical about whether like what that what that was,

523
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: and and if that was okay. There's actually a TikTok

524
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: er I can't remember her name off off the top

525
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: of my head, but she goes back and replays kind

526
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: of like scream oh punk bands from or you know,

527
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: from that era, and unpacks the way that they are

528
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: really unfair to women, and it's like, wow, I had

529
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: no idea that I was basically singing along happily for

530
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: an anthem that's about disrespecting women. And I'm a woman,

531
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,959
Speaker 1: you know, right, I mean and Andy and I've been

532
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: talking about this for a lot while about the romanticizing

533
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: of abuse, as if it's something like that that should

534
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: be a part of your relationship and not understanding this

535
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: is really not good that these like the constant phone

536
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: calls not great, the the I'm gonna kill myself if

537
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: you don't love me back, like this whole level of like,

538
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: oh my god, what is happening? And we've allowed that

539
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: to be because somehow we've allowed that to be romanticized

540
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: in our head. It's this is true love, right, like,

541
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: this is what it means to be in love, to

542
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: want to die if we're not together. And then going

543
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: beyond that for men and be like, if I really

544
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: want you have to show you my power, and my

545
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: power mats me hurting you maybe or someone else for sure,

546
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: in order to show you that I am the man

547
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 1: who can protect you quote unquote in so many different ways,

548
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: and like kind of this whole other trope that we've

549
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: allowed to be. Yeah, that's just men being men. This

550
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: is this is normal. This is good, right, and no

551
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: one really questioning until after the fact of realizing, oh

552
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: my god, there's so much trauma here. Why did we

553
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: think this was okay? Yeah, I completely agree, and we

554
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: should really be asking the question about what we depict

555
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: as romantic. And I think something that you said I

556
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: can't stop thinking about is that it starts so young,

557
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: Like how many of you all remember when if you're

558
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,239
Speaker 1: a girl and then maybe I got a guy when

559
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: you were a kid pushes you on the playground, and

560
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: some adults somewhere it's like, well, it's probably because he

561
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: likes you that, like, you know, like we should not

562
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: be it happened so early that we make it okay

563
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: when quote unquote affection or love is actually abuse, and

564
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: I should really be asking questions about it. Honestly. I

565
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: just one of my go to comfort movies that I

566
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: kind of tease about all the times of Rather Tui

567
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: and recently, like there's a scene in and I was like,

568
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: oh my god, why did we allow this? In which

569
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: the rat comes through the roof and do you see

570
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: a couple of fighting with a gun. It goes off

571
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh my god, goes back and they're

572
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: kissing and making out and he just he just laughs

573
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: and shrugs and walks off, And I'm like, is that okay?

574
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: This is this wait, like we're not even gonna talk

575
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: about how people are really upset about periods, but this

576
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: is okay. This scene has made in But you know,

577
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: like this is that level of like it literally was

578
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: just a blip in the screen of a very g

579
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: rated movie and it's romanticizes like, oh but they just

580
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: love each other. That's just one of those one one

581
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: more couple like that. Yeah, you know how you know

582
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: how marriage is, how you have to argue, get the

583
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: gun later you're kissing, you know, a gun, you forget

584
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: about it. Everything is fine. But that's the thing is,

585
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: like what are we teaching? I mean, I don't want

586
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: to be one of those people like this movie teaching,

587
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: but like that is it's it's become so normalized in

588
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: these conversations that women really truly a girl, young girls

589
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: really truly think this is the epitome of being a woman.

590
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: This is the epitome of being in a relationship. Tough

591
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: times means he hits me, but I forgive him, Like

592
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: that's that conversation until you realize, oh my God, I

593
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: couldn't see it until I left, and until I figured

594
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: out talking to other women how it was not just

595
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: him loving me, that this is him controlling women in general,

596
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: exactly exactly that. Yeah, gosh, I feel like we could go.

597
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: I we need a venting session, we need a podcast,

598
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: because I'm like, yeah, let's talk about what we're not

599
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: allowing for consent and all this stuff. So I know

600
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: we're not going to go too deep into this, but

601
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: could you go kind of briefly into what would says

602
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: about what Warner put her through? Yeah, the list of

603
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: abuses that he put her through are truly horrifying. I

604
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: honestly don't want to like. This is why I couldn't

605
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: finish the documentary because it's a lot, so I don't

606
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: want to spend too much time on it because they

607
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: really are sickening. But among them are the allegations that Warner,

608
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: who would says, collected Nazi memorabilia, so just a really

609
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: great guy, would whip her with a Nazi whip, and

610
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: would her mother is Jewish and she was raised Jewish herself,

611
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: and so this is obviously really messed up. She said

612
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: that he also deprived her of sleep, forced her to

613
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: drink his blood in a blood pack where he also

614
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: drank hers, raped her while she was sleeping, forced her

615
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: to take drugs, and a lot more of the abuse.

616
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: She says, I felt my brain changed. I felt it

617
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: almost calcified. And the world is never the same. And

618
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: it's just the list of And I should also say

619
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,479
Speaker 1: that the kinds of things that she says that he

620
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: put her through, other women who also dated him say

621
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: the same thing, and so it's a lot of it's

622
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: a lot of the same kind of off Like other

623
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: women that she talks to have said that he branded

624
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: her or like carved things into their body like it's

625
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: it's it's horrifying allegations, and so I should mention that

626
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: Warner he denies these allegations, and he says that what

627
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: has been contacting and coercing women into saying they were

628
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: abused by him. He is currently suing Would and Her

629
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: Phoenix Rising contributor Il mcgore. According to Time, he's accusing

630
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: the women of a quote conspiracy in service of which

631
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: they supposedly quote secretly recruited, coordinated, and pressured perspective accusers

632
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: to emerge simultaneously with allegations of rape and abuse against Warner. Yeah,

633
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: I find it interesting that we have like sixteen women

634
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: at least coming out at the same time, and we're

635
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: as a society it seems so much more ready to

636
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 1: be like, but there's this video of her at eighteen

637
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: saying she was into it, right, So that's all lies.

638
00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: She manufactured this whole thing, and he is down it

639
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: out and once again the one that is getting unwarranted

640
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: exactly intention Women don't make this kind of stuff up,

641
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: this idea that they would be simultaneously trying to come

642
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: together to come up with these lies about him. Why, like,

643
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: who who would do that? Who would want the kind

644
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: of scrutiny that comes with being a public survivor of

645
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: this kind of abuse? Who would welcome that into their lives?

646
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: Some of these women are also, you know, not public figures.

647
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: People don't make this kind of thing up, Like it

648
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: is so rare for people to make up allegations of

649
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: this kind of abuse that it just let alone sixteen

650
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: different people, it's like it just it just doesn't cold water.

651
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: It's like, isn't the way it works? And again, probably

652
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: more than sixteen that's coming out, But the conversation is

653
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: too that the actual events and abuse were so similar

654
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: to each other. Even the game of throws actress up

655
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: like as may Bianca, I think it's her name. She

656
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: had so their stories towards like being deprived of food,

657
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: being electrocute, like there's so many things. It's like, this

658
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: is beyond just maybees. And I do remember that he

659
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: had one partner who actually was like that didn't happen

660
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: to me, and people lashed onto that story so hard,

661
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 1: and it was kind of like, but that doesn't mean anything.

662
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean It just negates the entirety of the

663
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: story of who he is at this point in time.

664
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: And I can't stand this because it also comes back

665
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: to the point of demonizing these women and shaming them

666
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: in every way possible, taking any work of art that

667
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: they did so as actors who may have portrayed a

668
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: nude scene at any point in time. So she's a slut,

669
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: how do you she want? Obviously she knew what she

670
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: was getting into. This whole level of conversations where they

671
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: just completely try to discredit someone based on this and

672
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: really feeling like, obviously these women are doing it for

673
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: attention when it actually hurt a lot of their careers.

674
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: Evan Rachel was for a long time out of so

675
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: many things, out of projects because of the trauma alone. Yeah,

676
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: so he did have a ex partner say he was

677
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: always nice to me. And I'm not going to discount

678
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: what she's saying, but as we know, you know, someone

679
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: being nice to you doesn't mean that they are never

680
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: abusive to other people. And so people absolutely latched onto that.

681
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: And you're absolutely right that it certainly has not helped

682
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: the careers or the trajectories of the people who are

683
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 1: speaking out. And it's just like, that's not how it works,

684
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: Like people don't lie about this kind of thing. It

685
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: does not help. It hurt Evan Rachel would to come out,

686
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: She risked a lot to come out, and this idea that, oh,

687
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: they're doing it for attention, who would want this kind

688
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: of attention? Right? Right? And also, let's talk about the

689
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: side that Warner is not in jail exactly. He was

690
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: on a damn Kanye West show, I I Hate It,

691
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: I Need It. So you might be wondering, well, okay,

692
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: in what way is this a tech issue? And so

693
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: there is one specific incident in the abuse that would

694
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: talks about that I want to focus on, right now,

695
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: and that is the music video for Warners song heart

696
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: Shaped Glasses. That music video features Evan Rachel Wood. She

697
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: was in that video when she was nineteen years old,

698
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: and he kind of casts her as a modern day

699
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,479
Speaker 1: Lolita because apparently the story goes that she was wearing

700
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: these heart shaped sunglasses at the party where they met,

701
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: and in you know, Lolita wears heart shaped sunglasses in

702
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: the book, and so in the documentary, Wood says, of

703
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: the music video, we were doing things that were not

704
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: what was pitched to me. We had discussed a simulated

705
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: sex scene, but once the cameras were rolling, he started

706
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: penetrating me for real. And she goes on to say

707
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: it was a really traumatizing experience filming the video. I

708
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: didn't know how to advocate for myself or how to

709
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: say no because I had been conditioned and trained to

710
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: never talk back to just soldier through I felt disgusting,

711
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: like I had done something shameful, and I could tell

712
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: the crew was very uncomfortable and nobody knew what to do.

713
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: I was coerced into a commercial sex act under false pretenses.

714
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: That was the first crime committed against me, and I

715
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: was essentially raped on camera and so according to Wood,

716
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: the music video for Heart Shaped Classes is actually a

717
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: video of her rape, and that video is available, not

718
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: to mention, monetized on the platform YouTube as we speak.

719
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: Anybody who wants to go see it can look it up.

720
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: And so Warner's campus they deny these allegations, and they

721
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: say that Wood was coherent and involved in the planning

722
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: of the video. They say, of all the false claims

723
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: that Rachel Evan Wood is made about Brian Warner, her

724
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: imaginative retelling of the making of the Heart Shaped Classes

725
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: music video fifteen years ago is the most brazen and

726
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: easy to disprove because there are multiple witnesses. So they

727
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: maintain that the scenes in that video were actually simulated. However,

728
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone spoke to a crew member from the video

729
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: shoot under the condition of anonymity, who corroborated Wood's claims, saying,

730
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 1: I do believe that there were some moments of actual

731
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: intercourse and so that for me is really how this

732
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 1: becomes a tech issue and a tech accountability issue, is that,

733
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: according to Would, YouTube is promoted housing and monetizing a

734
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: video of where she says she was being sexually assaulted,

735
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 1: and frankly, I'm inclined to believe her. And so the

736
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: question is what is YouTube going to do about this?

737
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: Are they going to just allow a video of a

738
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: sexual assault to be on their platform and continue to

739
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: profit off of it. I would say if that's the

740
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: choice they're making, it's pretty questionable. Yeah, I'm afraid to

741
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: ask what they're making. I you know, YouTube they quickly

742
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: took the video down and then they made a donation

743
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: to anti rape organizations. Oh wait, just kidding. They do

744
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: anything that they they basically so there's a change that

745
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: Art petition with overt signatures calling for YouTube to remove

746
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: the video, and Evan Rachel would share this petition and

747
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: they pretty much have signaled that they're not going to

748
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: take it down. Their spokesperson, Jack Malone says, we're monitoring

749
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: the situation closely, and we'll take appropriate action if we

750
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: determine there's a breach of our creator responsibility, Guy Lanes.

751
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: And so this is really why I see this as

752
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: a tech accountability issue. You know, YouTube, like most online platforms,

753
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: have community guidelines that users have to follow, and according

754
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: to those community guidelines, content that includes quote non consensual

755
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: sex acts and unwanted sexualization is very much against their

756
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: own stated community guidelines. The community guidelines in terms of

757
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: service says that a user can have monetization suspended or

758
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: have their entire channel terminated if their behavior away from

759
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: the platform harms YouTube users. And so to me, it

760
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: seems pretty clear they have publicly stated that their community

761
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 1: guidelines prevent non consensual sex acts or unwanted sexualization in

762
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: their content. And here we have a video where Evan

763
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: rachel Wood says this is exactly that, and yet they're

764
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: continuing to host this video and profit off of it

765
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: because we know that's how YouTube makes their money. It's

766
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: from advertisements that are on the content hosted on their platform.

767
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think that YouTube is really expecting

768
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: people to only grapple with this as a quote celebrity story,

769
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: not an issue of YouTube and their own adherence to

770
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: what they say their community guidelines are. And you know,

771
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: I really take issue with that. I really have not

772
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: seen a lot of folks in the tech community talking

773
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: about this story as an example a really clear example

774
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: of YouTube, I think, failing to create a reasonably safe

775
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: environment for its users and and just for the world,

776
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: right and out of curiosity because I don't know much

777
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: about how YouTube works. Not take savvy. Is Warner making

778
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: money from this as well when he gets all these views?

779
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 1: Oh that is a good question. I actually wouldn't really,

780
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 1: I'm actually not totally sure if he specifically is making

781
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: money from these videos being hosted, but I do know

782
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: that he has a YouTube account, and so just how

783
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: monetization works, I wouldn't be surprised. I'm not I'm not

784
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: able to say one way or another, but I wouldn't

785
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: be surprised. I checked to see if the video was

786
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: still on the platform before we started this this talk,

787
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: and you know, right before the video played there's ads,

788
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: and so I can I can imagine I wouldn't be

789
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: surprised if he if he is making money from that

790
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 1: as another income stream. And yeah, I guess that's That's

791
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: really the crux of why I wanted to talk about

792
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: this is that this is what happens when women and

793
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: other traditionally marginalized people are not really meaningfully centered and

794
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: reflected in tech. It allows one platforms to harm us

795
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: and make money from our harm, and be able to

796
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: do so with without any kind of real accountability and

797
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: to It allows for there are so many tech publications

798
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: that are that are missing an opportunity to spotlight this

799
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 1: as a tech issue in terms of the harm that

800
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: that YouTube is allowing to be spread on their platform. Right,

801
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: I mean that's the big conversation is that who is

802
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: making money off of someone with trauma? And this is

803
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: absolutely what is happening, is that they're making money off

804
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: of it and giving views and giving credibility to the

805
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: abuser once again in as a musician. And this is

806
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: such a whole other conversation of like, you have responsibility

807
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: in making sure that people are not continually retraumatized and

808
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: or being harmed by your content, and yes, if it

809
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: is your platform, you are responsible, point blank exactly. And

810
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: I also think you know, YouTube there in their community

811
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: guidelines to say, oh, we can take things down if

812
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: there is a confession or a conviction. YouTube is owned

813
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: by Google, right, Google is one of the biggest companies

814
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: in the world. And how things work in the platform

815
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 1: accountability space, when a huge player in the space does something,

816
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: it creates pressure for other people to do things. And

817
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 1: so if Google was to do something, that would create

818
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 1: the conditions for other smaller platforms to follow a suit,

819
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: because big platforms really do set the tone, and so

820
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: I believe that a company like Google, who owns YouTube

821
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: should be able to say, we don't need to wait

822
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 1: for Brian Warner to confess that he, you know, sexually

823
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: assaulted Evan Rachel Will on the side of this video.

824
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: We don't have to wait for a legal conviction. We

825
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: are Google, and we can set the standard for what

826
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: is it is not appropriate on our platform, and a

827
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: video of someone being sexual assaulted is not appropriate. But

828
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: I believe that they're really just throwing up their hands

829
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: and saying, not our problem. Call us when he confesses.

830
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: Call us if there's a conviction, We're gonna just ignore

831
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: this and hope that you do too. I think they

832
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: are absolutely just abdicating responsibility. And guess what, you don't

833
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: get to do that when you're Google. When you're a

834
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: huge company like Google, you have a responsibility that is very,

835
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,959
Speaker 1: very powerful, and you don't get to just say it's

836
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: not our issue, We're gonna wait for the course to

837
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: figure it out. We're gonna wait for him to confess.

838
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: When you're Google. That that is so irresponsible, and it

839
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: sets up a dynamic where other platforms can follow suit.

840
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: So it really is irresponsible. Cowardly and also just harmful.

841
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: And again they're making money from this in action, and

842
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: they're continuing to just let this video rack up millions

843
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,959
Speaker 1: and millions and millions of views that are being made

844
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: from a video of someone being sexually assaulted. And let's

845
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: also point out that it's a video, not the entire artist,

846
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: not his whole genre of music, one video. That was

847
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: the request. It shouldn't be that hard, exactly, and I

848
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 1: guess I just I mean, yeah, it shouldn't be this hard.

849
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: And I want so desperately to believe that a different

850
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: world for survivors as possible in the scheme of things.

851
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: So small asking for one the music video to be

852
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: removed in the scheme of things, what is that, you know?

853
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: I feel like that is such a small ask that

854
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: a survivor has clearly made, and they're just able to

855
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: say no. I want to believe in a world where

856
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: survivors can expect more, survivors can expect dignity and respect

857
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: and to be listened to and meaningfully centered. And I

858
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: believe Google had has a chance to do that that

859
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: they're just giving away. And it's exactly what you were

860
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: saying that this is a question of believing women, respecting women.

861
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: Let's say it was considual just for the sake of argument,

862
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: And she's like, I don't like this because whatever happened

863
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: beforehand in this relationship, it was traumatic. Please take it off.

864
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: That should be enough. That should be enough without having

865
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: to regarditate the same experience as and tell them exactly

866
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: how it hurt you, which is also traumatizing. We shouldn't

867
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: have to be that we have to put on a

868
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: fanfare for someone to believe that we are in pain

869
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: point blank. Yeah. I mean, we shouldn't have to scream

870
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: just to be heard. You know. In this week's episode

871
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: of my podcast There Are No Girls on the Internet,

872
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: we talked to a survivor and an advocate, Alison Turkos,

873
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 1: who was sexually assaulted in a lift, and she talks

874
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: so eloquently about how she is expected to regurgitate the

875
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,720
Speaker 1: most traumatic, painful thing that happened her over and over

876
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: and over again, and that we create a world where

877
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: that is supposed to be the pathway for survivors to

878
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: get justice. And I don't think that survivors A owe

879
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: you their stories or B should have to relive this

880
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,959
Speaker 1: pain just to get anyone to do something. YouTube has

881
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: the power. They could, they could decide to take this

882
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: one video down tomorrow. They take things down all the

883
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 1: time for all different kinds of reasons. And I believe

884
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: that making a survivor retell her pain in this way

885
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: to then do nothing, it's just survivors are better, Survivors

886
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: should be able to expect better. Yes, yeah, I mean

887
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: that's an excellent point because as someone who used to

888
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: like upload YouTube videos a lot, and they get taken

889
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: down all the time because the music was too close

890
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: to other music. So it's like we're clearly I've been

891
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: thinking this whole time as we've been talking about this,

892
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: the messages that young girls are picking up from witnessing

893
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: this from a celebrity that they see and this is

894
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: the response that she gets. And you know, we care

895
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: more about copyright infringement the survivors and how that influences

896
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: you and what you think is normal and what if

897
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: you're going to report um, which again that is very

898
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: personal and complicated and does have a lot of fallout often,

899
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: but also just this idea of men getting this kind

900
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: of genius artistic card and the like women that they've

901
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 1: left behind this path of trauma that they left behind

902
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: that we've determined is okay because we've got this art

903
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: out of it. And that's what it takes. And I've

904
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 1: done I've done some work in acting before, and it

905
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: is very you will get that messaging hardcore where it's like,

906
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: but this is gonna be great, and this is going

907
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: to launch your career, and this is what it takes.

908
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: This is what you have to do because it's so

909
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: competitive and oftentimes it's just like an excuse to take

910
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: advantage of you and then you'll never hear from them again,

911
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 1: God like if you were in a So that's how

912
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: it is in a lot of entertainment industries. Let's say

913
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: that you were an accountant and someone was like, well,

914
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: Joe is a really gifted accountant, so you're just gonna

915
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: have to put up with him sexually assaulting you and

916
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: physically abusing you and treating you horribly because he's just

917
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: a really talented accountant. Uh No. And it should be

918
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 1: in the same way across industries. There shouldn't be these

919
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: huge carve outs for men to get away with abusive

920
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: behavior and have that abusive behavior be repackaged and sold

921
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: back to us as genius No, I completely agree that

922
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: whether you are a musician, an actor, or an accountant,

923
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: there should be some clear standards for how you are

924
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: expected to behave. And you know, a music video is

925
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: a workplace. You know, that's that has a crew and

926
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: has people who are paid to be there, and you know,

927
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: there's just no excuse for that. And I'm I'm unwilling

928
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: to accept that that's you know, the marker of genius,

929
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 1: or that we have to put up with men's powerful,

930
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: men's bad or abusive behavior to get great art. No,

931
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm just unwilling. That's unacceptable to me. Agreed, Agreed, I

932
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: can't wait. We gotta have a venting session on I

933
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: need it. I obviously I need it. I feel like

934
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: we all do. I can feel it in me um Well.

935
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: In the meantime, thanks so much for bringing this topic

936
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: to us, Bridget and giving it the nuance that it deserves.

937
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: Always appreciated. Where can the good listeners find you? Well,

938
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: I would love it if you listen to my podcast.

939
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: There are no girls on the Internet. Not all of

940
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: our conversations are about heavy, sad issues, but we would

941
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: love to have you listen. You can check it out

942
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: on this very network I Heart Radio can follow me

943
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Bridget Marie in d C or on

944
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: Twitter at Bridget Murray. Yes, and definitely do that, and

945
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: we can't wait to talk some more Bridget. Maybe we

946
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: got some other things in the works coming up, very exciting,

947
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: so look out for that. Listeners. Um, if you would

948
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: like the emails that you can our email Steffiuma, stuff

949
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: that I Hurt Me you dot com. You can find

950
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at most of podcast or Instagram and

951
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: stuff under told You. Thanks always to our super producer Christina.

952
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: We love you, Christina. Yes, and thanks to you for listening.

953
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: Stop Whenever told you his prediction I Heart Radio. For

954
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio viausit, the heart Radio app,

955
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.