1
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,800
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

2
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:08,959
Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff I've Never Told you production iHeart Radio,

3
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 2: and welcome welcome to part two of our look at

4
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 2: women and revenge, And especially in this part two, we're

5
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 2: looking at more modern takes on women in revenge and

6
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,240
Speaker 2: in our media. As I mentioned in previous classic part one,

7
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,800
Speaker 2: some of it is pretty intense, so just be be bare.

8
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,200
Speaker 2: But it's really interesting, really fascinating stuff, so please enjoy

9
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:54,200
Speaker 2: this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and

10
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,560
Speaker 2: welcome to stuff I'll Never told your production of Iheartradios

11
00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 2: how stuff works.

12
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,600
Speaker 1: And we're back and we're back.

13
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,679
Speaker 3: Sorry about the cliffhanger. We're actually gonna be talking about

14
00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,240
Speaker 3: one of the most famous cliffhangers of all time in

15
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,080
Speaker 3: this episode. I cannot wait to talk about it. I

16
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 3: will leave you in suspense.

17
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,000
Speaker 1: I'm thinking through our list. I'm like, wait, which one.

18
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,639
Speaker 3: I will leave you in suspense. If you haven't listened

19
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 3: to our part one on revenge all about the science

20
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 3: and history, suggest you go do that because in this

21
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 3: one we're going to be looking at specific examples of

22
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,520
Speaker 3: our more modern female revenge right right, and trigger warning

23
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 3: before we get into it for sexual assault, violence, and

24
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 3: brief mentions of mental health and suicide. Like we said

25
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,000
Speaker 3: in the previous episode, one aspect of revenge films, they

26
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 3: are fantastical, they are heightened, they are usually ultra violent,

27
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,760
Speaker 3: and I was thinking why this might be why I

28
00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,200
Speaker 3: watched way too many of them, and I think it's

29
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 3: because it ups the satisfaction. Nothing will ever erase what

30
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,280
Speaker 3: was done, and if the feeling of relief or satisfaction

31
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,840
Speaker 3: is destructive, it will only last in the short term.

32
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,440
Speaker 3: As we said in the previous episode, might as well

33
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:22,959
Speaker 3: exaggerate it and keep doing it to keep getting revenge

34
00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,040
Speaker 3: in your fantasies. You don't hold back, you induled, you'd

35
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,320
Speaker 3: try to imagine how you can inflict as much pain

36
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 3: and damage as was done to you. And also, as

37
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 3: we said in the previous episode, science shows were really

38
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 3: bad at judging the appropriate amount of payback. So let's

39
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 3: talk about some of these examples. But first disclaimer, almost

40
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,400
Speaker 3: all of them are white women. There's a lot of

41
00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,880
Speaker 3: articles written about why that is. White women are allowed

42
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,600
Speaker 3: to be angry and vengeful and yet remain sympathetic and

43
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,800
Speaker 3: deserving of our empathy in a way that women of

44
00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 3: color still are not. But that is changing very slowly,

45
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,239
Speaker 3: but it is changing.

46
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 4: All right.

47
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,360
Speaker 3: And another disclaimer, I guess we categorized our examples into

48
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 3: some basic recurring tropes. They're kind of arbitrary. They are

49
00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,000
Speaker 3: things that come up a lot, and a lot of

50
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 3: them do overlap and could be in multiple categories. But

51
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,160
Speaker 3: we did our best to organize them in a way

52
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:18,919
Speaker 3: that makes sense.

53
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,359
Speaker 4: Yes, because there's a lot of them, it turns.

54
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 5: Out, and again, they do overlap a lot, so you

55
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 5: could be talking about one example in one place, but

56
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 5: also could attribute to other places.

57
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely sure.

58
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 3: And one of the biggest genres that we needed to

59
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 3: talk about is the genre rape and revenge. Rape and

60
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,080
Speaker 3: revenge films, as you can imagine, these are very divisive

61
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,000
Speaker 3: movies that have generated a lot of discussion about exploitation

62
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 3: and empowerment. These films typically start with a traditionally beautiful

63
00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,120
Speaker 3: young woman getting raped, often by more than one man,

64
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 3: and then often left four dead, not always, then comes

65
00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 3: the revenge violent frequently a penis gits cut off. The

66
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:07,280
Speaker 3: rape is often quite long and brutal. These movies long

67
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 3: have been for the most part written and directed by men,

68
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,920
Speaker 3: which is part of the main criticism of them and

69
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,240
Speaker 3: the rape scene filmed through the mail gaze and the

70
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,000
Speaker 3: attackers pov. This puts the audience in position of sympathizing

71
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 3: with the rapist. Do sometimes pornographic elements raise the question

72
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,480
Speaker 3: of rape as a form of entertainment?

73
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 5: I think we had that conversation for Game of Thrones

74
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,279
Speaker 5: that was definitely one of the big criticisms that happened there.

75
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 5: So these movies rose to popularity during the seventies in

76
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 5: the US, which coincided with discussions around so many issues

77
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,039
Speaker 5: and anxieties around women, including Roe versus Wade and abortion.

78
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,039
Speaker 5: But it also was when our society started taking rape

79
00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,960
Speaker 5: seriously and also the loosening of censorship restrictions. So you

80
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 5: can see our feminist movie Friday Alien addition that we

81
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 5: dearly love for more on the social anxieties around women

82
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,039
Speaker 5: and how they are reflected in our movies. So in

83
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,720
Speaker 5: I Spit on Your Grave, main character Jennifer undergoes an

84
00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,840
Speaker 5: unrelenting twenty one minutes of rape in total, and it

85
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,240
Speaker 5: engages in about forty five minutes of revenge. The actor

86
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 5: who played Jennifer kamil Keaton allegedly said of the revenge

87
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 5: portion that it made melt in our audience significantly uncomfortable.

88
00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,599
Speaker 4: I'm sure it did, I hope. So.

89
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yes, we mentioned that one at the end

90
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,719
Speaker 3: of our Our part one is being kind of one

91
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,520
Speaker 3: of the big first examples in the United States. But

92
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 3: it wasn't the first one. It wasn't the first rape

93
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,719
Speaker 3: revenge movie at all. In nineteen sixty one, Igmar Bergmann's

94
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,800
Speaker 3: The Virgin Spring, a film depicting a medieval poem about

95
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,480
Speaker 3: a man's revenge against the men who raped his daughter,

96
00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,920
Speaker 3: one Best Foreign Language Film. It went on to inspire

97
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 3: Wes Craven's The Last House on the Left in nineteen

98
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,560
Speaker 3: seventy two, and worth mentioning the woman who is raped

99
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,920
Speaker 3: is not always the one getting revenge. That's something else

100
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,920
Speaker 3: we'd sort of talked about in our Part one. From

101
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,480
Speaker 3: Sarah Priyanski's book Watching Rape, Film and Television and post

102
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,600
Speaker 3: feminist culture, film in this subgenre, quote depend on rape

103
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,080
Speaker 3: to motivate and justify a particularly violent version of masculinity,

104
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 3: relegating the women to minor props in the narrative. She

105
00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,279
Speaker 3: also wrote of the quote feminist paradox between a desire

106
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,720
Speaker 3: to end rape and a need to represent and therefore

107
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,280
Speaker 3: perpetuate discursive rape in order to challenge it.

108
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,599
Speaker 5: So a few other prominent examples we wanted to mention

109
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,280
Speaker 5: Miss forty five, a nineteen eighty one film about a

110
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,800
Speaker 5: mute woman who is raped twice in one day and

111
00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,359
Speaker 5: goes on a killing spree with her forty five, first

112
00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,920
Speaker 5: focusing on men who have wronged women, and then targeting

113
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:33,560
Speaker 5: any man.

114
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:34,520
Speaker 1: That crosses her path.

115
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,760
Speaker 5: The Accused of nineteen eighty nine Jonathan Kaplan film starring

116
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,120
Speaker 5: Jodi Foster as a woman who gets gaining raped at

117
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,520
Speaker 5: a bar to the cheers of patrons, and this is

118
00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,360
Speaker 5: based on the real life nineteen eighty three case of

119
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,000
Speaker 5: Cheryl Orajo. This film does not show the rape scene

120
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,560
Speaker 5: n ttil the very end, when a mel witness recounts

121
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 5: the event in court, and perhaps to reflect the unfortunate

122
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,560
Speaker 5: truth that we as a society trust men's words over

123
00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 5: women's and just kind of throw it out there. Jody

124
00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 5: Foster also did another one called The Brain, which was

125
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,160
Speaker 5: after her at her fiance are brutally attacked, she goes

126
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 5: on on a vigilante spree.

127
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she said in a few of those.

128
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 4: That's kind of an interesting flip on it.

129
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,840
Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty four, the British Board of Censors labeled

130
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 3: rape and revenge movies quote video nasties, and they were

131
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,040
Speaker 3: deemed too explicit to be sold in stores. The board

132
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,840
Speaker 3: said that they quote glorified the act of rape and

133
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,720
Speaker 3: inspired copycat crimes.

134
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,160
Speaker 5: Steig Larsen's two thousand and five book Girl with a

135
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 5: Dragon Tattoo later made it into a Swedish film and

136
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,800
Speaker 5: then an American remake, has a side plot of rape

137
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,840
Speaker 5: and revenge. When the main character, Elizabeth, is coerced and

138
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 5: satially assaulted by her state appointed legal guardian, the person

139
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 5: who controls her money. Essentially, she ties him down and

140
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 5: tattoo's rapist pig across his chest. After securing from him

141
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,200
Speaker 5: control of her life and finances, he cowers away from

142
00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:53,960
Speaker 5: her next time they see each other, And there's an

143
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 5: argument to be made that the main plot is sort

144
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,880
Speaker 5: of a rape revenge story. And the original title of

145
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,960
Speaker 5: the book, by the way, was men who Hate Women, which, yeah,

146
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,200
Speaker 5: it's an interesting concept because the whole it seems to

147
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:07,960
Speaker 5: be an origin story for her, which I think you

148
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:09,440
Speaker 5: and I talked a lot about while we were watching

149
00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 5: First Wives Club. There's always some origin story. And even

150
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,440
Speaker 5: though this is not necessarily your typical superhero movies obviously,

151
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,840
Speaker 5: but this is still kind of the hero or anti

152
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 5: hero movies.

153
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess you're right, because that's her origin story.

154
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,040
Speaker 5: But then the plot of what happened in this mystery

155
00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 5: has a lot to do with what happened to the

156
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 5: young girls. Yes, and it definitely rolls with that whole theme.

157
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,840
Speaker 3: Yes, and I might be mistake. I'm pretty sure there's

158
00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,280
Speaker 3: a new one on Netflix.

159
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 1: Yes, in the American version.

160
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,640
Speaker 4: He is, ok. But there's another new one. Oh, Okay, Yes,

161
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,679
Speaker 4: I think I think that's Clairefoy in it.

162
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,880
Speaker 3: Anyway, the category is a bit more diverse, this rape

163
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 3: prevenged category than most people might think, especially more modernly.

164
00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 4: And this is where I come in because I watched.

165
00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 1: A lot of Yes still wow.

166
00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,320
Speaker 3: Nerrer entries into the genre are changing things up with

167
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,720
Speaker 3: a spate of female directed rape revenge movies that do

168
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,319
Speaker 3: not employ the male gaze that focus on the survivor instead.

169
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,959
Speaker 3: They are also more realistic in that the rape is

170
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,240
Speaker 3: perpetrayed by someone the woman knows, different from stranger stranger

171
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,040
Speaker 3: danger perpetrators of earlier films in the genre, and during

172
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 3: the rape scene or scenes, the focus is on the

173
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 3: experience of the victim rather than the perpetrator and the

174
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:33,479
Speaker 3: aftermath of the trauma and PTSD. For example, Corley Farjat's

175
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,680
Speaker 3: Revenge in twenty seventeen. This is a French rape revenge

176
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,040
Speaker 3: movie that follows Jen, who is the mistress of a

177
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 3: rich married man named Richard. While on vacation on a

178
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,560
Speaker 3: remote island only accessible via helicopter, one of Richard's friends

179
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,240
Speaker 3: rapes her while Richard is away. Instead of lashing out

180
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,240
Speaker 3: at his friend, though when he finds out, he of

181
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,280
Speaker 3: course pushes her off a cliff, leaves her for dead,

182
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:04,160
Speaker 3: and Jin gets her revenge. There's a very fascinating line

183
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,200
Speaker 3: at the end where he says something like women always

184
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:06,680
Speaker 3: have to put.

185
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 4: Up a fight.

186
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 1: Oh, oh, that same thing.

187
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then MFA I also watched this one. This

188
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 3: was a twenty seventeen film directed by Natalia Leita and

189
00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 3: written by Leah McKendrick, and it follows art student Noel

190
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:26,280
Speaker 3: played by Francesca Eastwood. And Noel is an introvert and

191
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,440
Speaker 3: she's a bit of an outcast in her program. Her

192
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 3: art is consistently criticized by her professor, and the students

193
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,960
Speaker 3: like publicly for being timid. She has a crush on

194
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,839
Speaker 3: her fellow art student Luke, who also seems to reciprocate

195
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,440
Speaker 3: her feelings, but then Luke brutally sexually assaults her. The

196
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,680
Speaker 3: camera stays focused on her during this whole thing. You

197
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 3: can see her disassociate. The music drops out and go

198
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,080
Speaker 3: there's like a droning humming sound, which reminds me of

199
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 3: my one of my favorite episodes of television ever and

200
00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,400
Speaker 3: an episode of Buffy where her mom dies. Noel is

201
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:06,439
Speaker 3: at first consumed with thoughts of getting justice she does.

202
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,800
Speaker 3: She tells her roommate right away, and her roommate says,

203
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 3: don't report it because I had a friend it the

204
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 3: same thing happened to her and nobody believed her and

205
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,000
Speaker 3: made her feel terrible about herself. But Noel goes and

206
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 3: does it anyway, and lo and behold, it's all like

207
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 3: did you have something to drink? Did you what? Did

208
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,599
Speaker 3: anybody see it? How long were you together alone? And

209
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,960
Speaker 3: like all these questions that made her doubt herself. Did

210
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:31,680
Speaker 3: you ever say no?

211
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,840
Speaker 4: What she did? Yeah?

212
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:37,800
Speaker 3: So then she goes to a support group, and the

213
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,040
Speaker 3: support group is more intent on here's the fingernail polish

214
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,439
Speaker 3: that you can dip and it'll detect the date rate

215
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 3: drug or you know, ways of like dealing with it

216
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,440
Speaker 3: or finding support.

217
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 4: And when Noel is like, well, why don't.

218
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,280
Speaker 3: We try to stop the people that are doing the raping,

219
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,840
Speaker 3: and they're kind of like, wow, that's the world we

220
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 3: live in. Yeah, So she confronts her attacker, accidentally kills him,

221
00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 3: kind of gets a taste for it, and starts seeking

222
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 3: out rapist and killing them. And as she's doing this,

223
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,599
Speaker 3: her art is becoming more and more brave as a

224
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 3: professor for it, like them, Wow, this is so good enough,

225
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 3: so that at the end she's the one they select

226
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,600
Speaker 3: to give the like speech because she's made such progress.

227
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,559
Speaker 3: And then she gets arrested after she gets her MFA,

228
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:33,440
Speaker 3: she gets arrested.

229
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,880
Speaker 1: She had a glow up and then arrested. No, it's

230
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:39,760
Speaker 1: not always there.

231
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,800
Speaker 5: So in Jennificant Nightingale from twenty eighteen, set in eighteen

232
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 5: twenty five Colonial Australia, after the film's protagonist, Irish convict Claire,

233
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,560
Speaker 5: is raped and she's determined to get revenge on her attacker,

234
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,080
Speaker 5: who also murdered her infant child and husband, obviously in tandem.

235
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 5: The narrative explores the persecution of Australia's Indigenous people, and

236
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,320
Speaker 5: the rape scenes unfold entirely from Claire's point of view,

237
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,559
Speaker 5: and the frame closes in on her face. Kent said

238
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 5: in an interview about the reaction to the film, what

239
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,800
Speaker 5: I've learned is the difficult relationship we have is in

240
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 5: separating the act of rape as an act of sex

241
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 5: as opposed to an act of violence. I'm in the

242
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,319
Speaker 5: latter camp. It's using a sexual act attempt to annihilate

243
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,040
Speaker 5: another human being. That's its aim. I agree with that.

244
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:35,800
Speaker 4: That was a really tough one too.

245
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, which is also when I watched revenge films typically

246
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,760
Speaker 5: stay away from those, so which is why I'm like,

247
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 5: I would never told you.

248
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:51,560
Speaker 1: Watch I did not know. Should have texted me?

249
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 4: They are all heartbreakings. I wouldn't.

250
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:54,960
Speaker 5: I wouldn't have watched it with you, but I would

251
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,520
Speaker 5: have at least supported you through text.

252
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:57,240
Speaker 4: Me like are you okay?

253
00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 1: Are you okay?

254
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,880
Speaker 4: Now? How are you now? It was they were rough,

255
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 4: they were rough.

256
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,320
Speaker 3: So those are some prominent examples from that that genre

257
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,800
Speaker 3: of female revenge, which is a pretty big one, and

258
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,280
Speaker 3: it is it is nice to see that women are

259
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,960
Speaker 3: making them now. I think that is a good step.

260
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,640
Speaker 3: But let's turn to another category here, which is kind

261
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 3: of broad. But the bride slash mother slash family revenge.

262
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,320
Speaker 5: Right, And I think I see that in a lot

263
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,400
Speaker 5: of you. And I've talked about this repeatedly about how

264
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,280
Speaker 5: ghosts and hauntings have a lot to do with mother's

265
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 5: and vengeance.

266
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,040
Speaker 1: Yes, And I'm like.

267
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 5: What, what what? Why is that such a thing?

268
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 4: I don't know, but it is. Yeah.

269
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,080
Speaker 3: So if you think of these sort of stereotypical roles

270
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,880
Speaker 3: of women as the scorned bride of the scorned lover,

271
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 3: the mother whose child has been abused or killed, or

272
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 3: the dutiful orconniving daughter, it's kind of what we're talking

273
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,000
Speaker 3: about here, although cheating and scorn is a whole category

274
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,840
Speaker 3: on to itself, because it's such a big one that

275
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 3: we'll get to in a moment if you could go

276
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 3: all the way back. If you look at Shakespeare, he

277
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 3: frequently dabbled in tales of betrayal and revenge in this genre,

278
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 3: although not too often with women. King Lear is an example,

279
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 3: though two of king Lear's daughters, Reagan and Goneril, enraged

280
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 3: by his clear favoritism of his youngest daughter, their sister,

281
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,800
Speaker 3: Cordelia seek to get revenge against the both of them.

282
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,560
Speaker 3: Cordelia is banished and her father. He does this whole

283
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,440
Speaker 3: thing at the beginning where he asks the three of them.

284
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 1: Who loves me the most, and ills, oh, I know.

285
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 3: And the first two sisters go into this whole spiel,

286
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 3: and then Cordelia, who does love him the most, is like,

287
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,200
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I can't find the words to express

288
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 3: how much I love you. They don't exist, and he thinks, oh, well,

289
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,360
Speaker 3: clearly and banishes her. And this leaves him kind of

290
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 3: at the whims of two of her sisters. Yeah, And

291
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 3: they enact all these plans for power mostly, but as

292
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 3: happens a lot in these, the tension grows between Reagan

293
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 3: and Goneril, who are both obsessed with obtaining the most

294
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 3: power and both are competing for the love of the

295
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,000
Speaker 3: same man. Cordelia attempts to rescue her father, but they

296
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 3: both end up dying in prison. Reagan and Guneril, meanwhile,

297
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 3: both perish, Reagan after Gnerail poisons her and Goneril kills herself,

298
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,360
Speaker 3: both consumed by vengeance.

299
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 4: Leaving many victims in their wake.

300
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 3: And then there is a film called The Bridewer Black,

301
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,480
Speaker 3: which is from a nineteen sixty eight by Francois Chufatt

302
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 3: based on the book by William Irish slash Cornell Woolwich

303
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,880
Speaker 3: went by pseudonym, and this is about a woman systematically

304
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 3: seeking revenge on the five men who murdered her husband

305
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,680
Speaker 3: on their wedding day. One by one she murders them,

306
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,440
Speaker 3: and as the events lead up to the grooms Day,

307
00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 3: the grooms Day, the groom's death are revealed via flashback,

308
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 3: we as the audience can see sort of what happened,

309
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 3: we can piece it together. In one instance, she models

310
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 3: that as the huntress Diana. For one of her victims,

311
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 3: he's an artist and he's painting her and she has

312
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:11,680
Speaker 3: this arrow and.

313
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,120
Speaker 4: You're like, oh, yeah, it's going down, it's going down. Yeah.

314
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 3: She shoots him with the arrow, but she she kind

315
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,679
Speaker 3: of looks at the mural depicting her, has a moment,

316
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,719
Speaker 3: doesn't paint over it, doesn't get rid of it, and

317
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:29,800
Speaker 3: is arrested and prison She kills her fifth and final victim,

318
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,960
Speaker 3: who she hadn't been able to get to previously because

319
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 3: he had been imprisoned himself.

320
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 4: Ah yeah, that point yep, then there's enough.

321
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 3: With Jennifer Lopez from two thousand and two, which was

322
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 3: based on the nineteen ninety eight novel by Anna Quinnlin

323
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 3: Black and Blue. Jennifer Lopez plays Slim, a woman who

324
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 3: threatens to leave her abusive husband and father to her

325
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 3: daughter after discovering he was having an affair. He beats

326
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 3: her in response, informing her that unless she's willing to fight,

327
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 3: he's not going to stop having in this affair, and

328
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 3: that because he's a man, it's quote no contest. She

329
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,359
Speaker 3: attempts to leave with her daughter and the help of

330
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 3: some friends, but is foiled.

331
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 4: She was forced to flee.

332
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,440
Speaker 3: She asks her rich father for money to help her escape,

333
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,639
Speaker 3: but he gives her just twelve dollars because he doesn't

334
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,880
Speaker 3: leave her. He changes this tune, however, when he's threatened

335
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 3: by Slim's husband's men, and he helps her buy a house.

336
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,640
Speaker 3: After a lawyer informs her essentially no one's gonna believe you.

337
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,440
Speaker 3: Slim takes martial arts classes and methodically plans her revenge.

338
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,200
Speaker 3: She wins in a fight between them and eventually kills

339
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 3: him in self defense.

340
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,280
Speaker 5: That movie had this big build up to be this

341
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,960
Speaker 5: epic scene. Did you watch it a.

342
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 3: Long time ago? And I saw it on TBS, so

343
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,119
Speaker 3: I'm sure it was edited.

344
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 5: I'm sure, but it really is kind of antichomatic. You're like, Oh,

345
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 5: I really, maybe.

346
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,879
Speaker 1: This is me needing big it in my life.

347
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 5: Just like that lasted thirty seconds and half the time

348
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,159
Speaker 5: was he put her in a corner and she had

349
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 5: to fight her way out, and I guess that made

350
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,479
Speaker 5: her the absolute victim, so she couldn't be disliked at

351
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 5: any point in time.

352
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 1: But it seemed kind of anti climactic.

353
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,040
Speaker 5: You're like, why she did all these prepping and you

354
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 5: would think that there's an ultimate showdown, but essentially she

355
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 5: has to trap them, trick them, and then she ends

356
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,920
Speaker 5: up being the bigger person, but does end up killing

357
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 5: him trying to give him his lee leeway apparently kind

358
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,400
Speaker 5: of reminds me of us sleeping with the enemy, except

359
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 5: in sleeping with the enemy, he comes after her, she

360
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 5: tries to leave. Have you seen that movie? That's interesting?

361
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,720
Speaker 5: So in Quentin Tarantinees killed Bill, which kind of was

362
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 5: one of the reasons you and I started talking about

363
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 5: more and more about all the revenge films. In Volume

364
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 5: one and Volume two, made in two thousand and three.

365
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 5: These films followed Beatrix Kiddo played by Uma Thurman, and

366
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 5: her violent journey to get revenge after she is shot

367
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 5: up all pregnant on her wedding day, and she sometimes

368
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 5: referred to as the bride. Actually throughout the whole first

369
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,199
Speaker 5: it is she's the bride. However, it's also kind of

370
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 5: a rape revenge film. While pretending to be comatos, she

371
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,920
Speaker 5: was sexually assaulted multiple times, and then if you watch

372
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 5: the movie, you know the old bloody, bloody ending. Tarantino

373
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 5: labeled Kill Bill as a feminist statement, and I know

374
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 5: that this was actually written with miss Thurman in mind,

375
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 5: and I believe while she was pregnant with her first child,

376
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,439
Speaker 5: they were kind of coming up with this idea together.

377
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 5: From what I understood, this is a long line of

378
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 5: movies with badass women working for a dude, which Tarantino

379
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 5: has this weird obsession with very strong women. I don't

380
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 5: know if it's weird, but he has an obsession with

381
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,679
Speaker 5: very strong women, which makes you go yayay right. And

382
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 5: obviously this was produced by Weinstein, which is part of

383
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 5: the reason we didn't want to do an entire episode

384
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 5: dedicated to one of these movies, even though to me,

385
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 5: I think that's one of the big obviously big shout

386
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,680
Speaker 5: outs to women protective, being motherly and being strong.

387
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 1: And with that.

388
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 5: During the middle of the many revelations being finally heard

389
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 5: and believed about mister Weinstein, which you know, we're still

390
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 5: dealing with him and his walker herself, many people were

391
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 5: waiting for Uma Thurman's response because she had such a

392
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 5: big relationship with both of them, and she finally did

393
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 5: with the statement she said in a tweet. No, she

394
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,159
Speaker 5: said it in a post. I feel it's important to

395
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,400
Speaker 5: take your time, be fair, be exact. So dot dot

396
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,679
Speaker 5: dot happy Thanksgiving everyone except you, Harvey and all your

397
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 5: wicked conspirators. I'm glad it's going slowly. You don't deserve

398
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 5: a bullet, which is a very kiddo statement to make.

399
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: And of course she elaborated her story with.

400
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 5: I think in an interview I can't remember who the

401
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 5: interview was with when she did talk about all of

402
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 5: the abuse and all of the trauma that she had

403
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 5: to go through while filming these movies. And I think,

404
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 5: I know we're going to talk about another movie as

405
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 5: it comes down, but it kind of just again, it

406
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 5: is kind of what you were saying, it's kind of weird, yeah,

407
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 5: that it was created by this man, and obviously there's

408
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 5: this double fold reality of what was happening behind the

409
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 5: scenes as well as trying to empower women or talk

410
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 5: about women being empowered and coming to seek vengeance.

411
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: This a whole different perspective.

412
00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I watched these very late last night for

413
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 3: the first time in a long time I've seen them before,

414
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 3: and I do love the ending of the second one

415
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 3: where the revenge kind of weighs out everything else. Right,

416
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 3: it like has to happen. It's just been building up, right,

417
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 3: There's a couple.

418
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: And there's a couple of things within that.

419
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 5: When we talk about oshi Orn's character, her origin story

420
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 5: was because of vengeance when she watches her which was

421
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 5: one of the most disturbing scenes I've ever seen in

422
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,679
Speaker 5: my life. I think I was so distraught after I

423
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 5: saw it in the movies of her witnessing her parents

424
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 5: being murdered. So also Vivica A. Fox's character. They kind

425
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 5: of kept it open to have her daughter who witnessed

426
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 5: the murder, to possibly come back with a vengeance.

427
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 4: Story of the cycle. Revenge. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, it never ends.

428
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 5: Which, yeah, of course, and it was I think, what

429
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 5: an interesting concept.

430
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

431
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,719
Speaker 3: And then something else we want to talk about, the

432
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight novel True Grit by Charles Portus, later

433
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 3: made into a twenty ten Coen Brothers movies ring Hailey Steinfeld,

434
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 3: and before that a nineteen sixty nine John Wayne film.

435
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 5: Loved that John Wayne film. I've never seen that one.

436
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 5: That's what I grew up on.

437
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 4: Uh huh.

438
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 3: I actually didn't see a John Wayne film until I

439
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 3: was in college. But anyway, So this is a western

440
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,959
Speaker 3: about young girl Mattie Ross and her mission to get

441
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 3: revenge on the man who murdered her father with the

442
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 3: help of a US marshall and a Texas ranger.

443
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 4: Both men, though.

444
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 3: They agree, they repeatedly try to ditch her despite her

445
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 3: insistence that she accompanied them, but she is more determined

446
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 3: than they realize, and eventually they're like, Okay, you can come.

447
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 3: She eventually does get her revenge. Her target says something

448
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 3: like I didn't think you'd do it after she shoots him,

449
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 3: and she also climbs out of a rattlesnake pit using

450
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 3: the bones of a skeleton in there with her.

451
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: Is that the book because in the movie is different.

452
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 4: I think it's in the book.

453
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, Yeah, there's a lot of theorizing about the

454
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 3: symbolize what that symbolizes in there. Then there's Martin McDonough's

455
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 3: Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, which is a twenty seventeen

456
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 3: film that follows Francis mcdorman's character Mildred, who is a

457
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 3: mother trying to get revenge for her daughter's rape and

458
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 3: murder and taking it out on just about everyone, but

459
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 3: mainly the police that pretty much have dismissed on and

460
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,719
Speaker 3: given up on the case.

461
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 4: On fact, I got.

462
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 3: Hit by car while crossing the street to go see

463
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 3: this movie, and then I went to go and my

464
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: friends I was seeing it with They were like, what's

465
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 3: wrong with your legs? And I said, we'll see. I

466
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 3: remember it so well.

467
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 5: Did you decide to take vengeance on the do that

468
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 5: hit you?

469
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 4: All I know is he is a white car from California.

470
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 5: That's all I Yeah. That could have been the beginning

471
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 5: of a new movie that could.

472
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: You prevented me?

473
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 4: Remember? I remember find you?

474
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: So?

475
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 5: Game of Thrones, as we were talking about earlier, was

476
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 5: full of women seeking revenge from Aria's list to Stance's

477
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 5: orchestrating the painful death of r abuser Ramsey and Danara's

478
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 5: entire quest for the Iron throne and her vengeful ending

479
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 5: as well. Also wanted to stick in here the Korean

480
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 5: horror film b Deviled, which has several things including the

481
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 5: loss of the daughter and I guess in some way

482
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 5: a loss of a friendship. It was to me one

483
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 5: of the most disturbing movies because it's they're isolated on

484
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 5: the small island and she's getting pretty abused by her husband,

485
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 5: his brother, her mother, Like it's just a constant, and

486
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 5: it of course it's centered around that and with the

487
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 5: loss and then causes this woman to quote unquote snap

488
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 5: as I've seen in reviews, murdering the entire islands inhabitants.

489
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: And it's very, very brutal.

490
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 5: But yeah, it's definitely one of those up there when

491
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 5: it comes to like being a mother, she was okay,

492
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 5: she dealt with the abuse, and then she finally was like,

493
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 5: oh no.

494
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: The last straw Well speak.

495
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 3: We got another category, a huge one to talk about,

496
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: and that is cheating. But first we have a quick

497
00:25:45,600 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.

498
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 4: Thank you.

499
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 3: Spons here, and we are back with the huge cats.

500
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 3: When it comes to female revenge, women getting revenge on

501
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 3: men who cheated on them or are who weren't loyal

502
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 3: to them.

503
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 5: Right So The Women, a nineteen thirty nine film inspired

504
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 5: by Claire booth Luce's play, directed by George Kuchar, with

505
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 5: a screenplay written by Anita Loos and Jane Murfin, and

506
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 5: starting only women for all one hundred and thirty speaking roles,

507
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 5: including iconic Joan Crawford. Even all the subjects in the

508
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 5: super glodsy Manhattan apartments are are almost all of women. However,

509
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 5: though men aren't present, they are much discussed. The plot

510
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 5: follows Mary, who, after finding out her husband is cheating

511
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 5: on her, plans to get revenge on the other woman

512
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 5: and a divorce from her husband, largely at the encouragement

513
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 5: of her friends. On a train ride on her way

514
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 5: to secure her divorce, she meets several other women doing

515
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 5: the same thing, gossip, backstabbing, cat fights and winning back husbands.

516
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I watch this too.

517
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: For this it's a classic.

518
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 4: It's a lot happening, you know.

519
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 3: For someone who loves the Transatlantic accent, I have trouble

520
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:08,239
Speaker 3: understanding it.

521
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's like, wait a minute, what are you saying.

522
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: It's definitely those time.

523
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 3: One of the quotes I really loved don't confide in

524
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: your girlfriends. If you do, they'll see to it in

525
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 3: the name of friendship that you lose your husband and

526
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: your home. And that's from Mary's mom. The movie's tagline

527
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 3: was see them with their hair down and their claws out.

528
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 3: And apparently during one of the cat fights, when one

529
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 3: of the actresses, she gets bitten, like that was real

530
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 3: and she has a scarf from it.

531
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 5: It was such a big thing that not too long ago,

532
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 5: they just did a whole little.

533
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: Mini series based on their relationship.

534
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 4: Whoa Whoa. I was when I was watching.

535
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 3: I was thinking that in this world that all these

536
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 3: women were growing up and you can't have jobs, or

537
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 3: it's harder to have a job, you can't have property,

538
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 3: or it's harder to own property, and money can't open

539
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 3: lines of credit. Is it really so surprising that all

540
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: these women are competing with each other and tearing each

541
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 3: other down.

542
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 4: I don't, I don't know right.

543
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 5: Also, of note, this did spawn several remakes, including the

544
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 5: musical The Opposite Sucks, which I watched I'm an old

545
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 5: person and of course our new fab first Wife's club.

546
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: Yes you love it so.

547
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 5: Nineteen eighty Seven's Fatal Attraction. Michael Douglas's character chief on

548
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 5: his wife with Glenn Close, who does not appreciate when

549
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 5: he tries to step away.

550
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: From their relationship.

551
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 5: She goes down a path of increasingly intense acts of revenge,

552
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 5: including sitting an audio tape listening all the ways he

553
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 5: is a selfish piece of garbage, and yeah, broiling his

554
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 5: child's pet bunny, which is one of the more iconic

555
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 5: scenes that everybody remembers, the bunny scene.

556
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: The bunny scene, the bunny scene, and this one is

557
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: a great example of one of the main differences between

558
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: revenge movies with a male protagonist versus a female protagonist,

559
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 3: because you're not meant to root for Glenn Close at all. No,

560
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 3: you were meant to see her as over your acting crazy,

561
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 3: and to be fair, she does a lot of things

562
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: that weren't that. But if a male protagonist had done

563
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 3: this same thing, I'm not super convinced audiences wouldn't still

564
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 3: be on his side.

565
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 5: Right, because then you also look at the fact of

566
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 5: his wife is barely there, barely present, in the movie,

567
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 5: and she's just the aw s film and no one

568
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 5: really sees the bottom line that he's an asshole cheated.

569
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 3: Right right, And then oh this one the nineteen ninety

570
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 3: nine film Cool Intentions, which I also watched. This directed

571
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: by Roger Gumbole and starring Sarah Michelle Geller.

572
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: Have you not seen it before?

573
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 4: Nope?

574
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Yeah, Reese Witherspoon, Ryan Philippi, and Selma Blair.

575
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: This movie is based on the seventeen eighty two novel

576
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: Les Liaezus, written by Pierre Chalc Toros de Lachlos. This

577
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 3: is set in a in Manhattan at large, but in

578
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 3: a prep school specifically, and it's dark, comedic, with an

579
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 3: at the time.

580
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 4: Rare on screen female kiss.

581
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: They won an award on the NAMTV.

582
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 4: Yes Sexiest that's right, of course.

583
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 3: Keller's bro character, Katherine tries to enlist Felipe's character her

584
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: stepbrother Sebastian help her get revenge on an X by

585
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: seducing Blair's character Seceal, the girl Katherine's ex boyfriend dumped

586
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 3: her for. Okay, it's very convoluted, yes, but basically she

587
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 3: wants Sebastian to help her get revenge Sebastian has different plans, though,

588
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: including instead to seduce the virginal daughter of the Headmaster,

589
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 3: a Net, played by Witherspoon.

590
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 4: So they make a bet.

591
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 3: If Sebastian fails at seducing a Net, Catherine gets his

592
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: very fancy Jaguar cars a specific model. If he succeeds,

593
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: he gets to sleep at the only person he's failed

594
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 3: to have sex with after he set his eyes on them, Catherine.

595
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 3: What follows is a mass of debauchery and vengeance. Sebastian

596
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,479
Speaker 3: actually falls in love with an Nette. Of course, he

597
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 3: wins the bet, but no longer desires to have any

598
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,959
Speaker 3: sex with Katherine and Katherin, and he's mad at this.

599
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: She manipulates him into leaving a net. Ultimately he dies

600
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: and he gets revenged posthumously against Catherine.

601
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 4: I was watching this like, wait a.

602
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: Minute, but I did want to include this quote from

603
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 3: Sarah Michelle Geller's character Catherine. And this is when he's

604
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: kind of like questioning how she behaves. She says, eat me, Sebastian.

605
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 3: It's all right for guys like you in court to everyone,

606
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 3: but when I do it, I get dumped for innocent

607
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: little twits like cecial. God forbid, I exude confidence and

608
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 3: enjoy sex. Do you think I relish the fact that

609
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 3: I have to act like Mary Sunshine twenty four to

610
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 3: seven so I can be considered a lady. I'm the

611
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 3: marsha fing Brady of the Upper east Side, and sometimes

612
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: I want to kill myself.

613
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 4: What a film.

614
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: It was very up and coming, rebellious film.

615
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 4: For sure.

616
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 3: I can see if I had been at the Not

617
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: that I'm didn't like it or anything.

618
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 4: It was enjoyable, but if I'd been at the right age,

619
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 4: I would have been WHOA look at this was? I think?

620
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 5: Also, just to remind Reese and the sales character Cela

621
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 5: Blair get their vengeance.

622
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 4: They are rude.

623
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,479
Speaker 3: The whole thing is like everybody gets revenge and then

624
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: might get like revenged over, like.

625
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 5: Right, Like it's a double women all the things, all

626
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 5: the things except Forese drives away with the actual roys.

627
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 5: Yeah a jaguar, Yeah, she drives away jaguar. Who knows,

628
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 5: but she's you know, loving it with the glasses and all.

629
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

630
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 5: So Chicago, the nineteen twenties musical that has been made

631
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 5: in two movies, the two thousand and two Best Picture

632
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 5: winner and Broadway Shows, the second longest running show in history,

633
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 5: is a story rife with female revenge. Bel m Kelly

634
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 5: kills her husband for cheating on her with her sister,

635
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 5: and Roxy Heart kills her lover for attempting to break

636
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 5: it off between them and lying to her about being

637
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 5: able to make her famous. Both are sent to gael

638
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 5: where they meet several other women in there for killing

639
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 5: women who did them.

640
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: Wrong, resulting in my favorite song, cell Black Tango, he

641
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: had it coming.

642
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, my favorite song when You're Good to Mama, which,

643
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 5: by the way, the viral video going around with Florence

644
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 5: Puge doing a great rendition of that.

645
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 3: Somebody saying at our holiday Kirioke party here there were

646
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 3: other things happening, but someone's saying, oh really, yes.

647
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: It wasn't me.

648
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 4: It was not either, but I do somebody did.

649
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: Then there's John Tucker Mess Die, which is a twenty

650
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: sixteen comedy film directed by Betty Thomas with the tagline

651
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 3: don't get mad, Get Everything.

652
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 4: The plot revolves.

653
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 3: Around three young women who discover their high school basketball

654
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 3: star boyfriend, John Tucker, is dating all three of them

655
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: at once, promising each they are the one, and they

656
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 3: work together along with a fourth person to get revenge.

657
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 5: Yeah. So in twenty eleven twenty fifteen show Revenge Haha

658
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 5: on ABC starring Emily Van Camp possibly being.

659
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: The reboot this year with the Latin X lead.

660
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 5: That could be cool. Inspired by Alexander Dumas's novel The

661
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 5: Count of Monte Cristo, which is a fantastic novel.

662
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 4: And we finally arrive at the thing I teased at at.

663
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 3: The opening, So one of the original cliffhangers. Okay, I'm

664
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 3: so happy about this. I finally know who shot j R.

665
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: I forgot that was You told me that you didn't know.

666
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 4: I had no idea.

667
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,479
Speaker 5: Wait what, and then I have to remember how young

668
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 5: you are in comparison to the shows.

669
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 3: Okay, So the reason I know about this at all

670
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 3: is because when I was in school, we used to

671
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: do this thing, or you would say who you shot JR?

672
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: Right the finger game?

673
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, while moving from knuckle to knuckle with each word.

674
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: I really don't know the point of it, Like, I

675
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: don't remember how you won or what you learned from that,

676
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 3: but I remember doing.

677
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 5: It as an Okay, all.

678
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: Right, that's what it's supposed to do.

679
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 3: I don't think that's what happened. We really didn't know.

680
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 3: No one knew what we were doing it. I always

681
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 3: thought had something to do with JFKA. I don't know why, okay,

682
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 3: but I now know. It's from an eighties television show

683
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: called Dallas And and it was this repugnant fellow named

684
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 3: j R. The third season finale ended with him getting

685
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 3: shot twice by missus serious assailant. For eight months, people

686
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 3: waited and were besieged by an incredibly effective marketing campaign.

687
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 3: Since he was such a jerk, everyone had a motive

688
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 3: like anyone could have been the killer. There were t

689
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 3: shirts that read who shot JR? Or I shot JR.

690
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 3: There were contest to guess who it was. During the

691
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty US presidential campaign, Republicans handed out buttons that

692
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 3: read a Democrat shot JR. Candidate Jimmy Carter even joked

693
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 3: that if only he knew who shot JR, he'd have

694
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: no problem financing his campaign. The actor who played JR

695
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 3: received an offer of a one hundred thousand pound vacation

696
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 3: pounded in the UK monetary unit if he'd reveal the shooter,

697
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 3: but the actor claimed and the actors knew all the

698
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 3: principal actors filmed the scene where they killed him to

699
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: keep the mystery up you could place bets on it,

700
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 3: and so finally on the episode Who Done It?

701
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 4: It was called Who Done It?

702
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 3: Aired in November nineteen eighty, revealing the It was the

703
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 3: highest rated television show in history, drawing in eighty three

704
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: million viewers domestically and more than three hundred and fifty

705
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 3: million internationally. Turkish parliament even famously ended a session early

706
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: so the legislators could go home.

707
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 4: And find out who Did It?

708
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 5: Well.

709
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: At the same time, a fundamentalist group in the same

710
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: country called for the quote elimination of Dallas anyway, Who

711
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 3: did It? Kristin Shepherd played by Mary Crosby Jr's sister

712
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 3: in law, mistress and alleged mother of his child, So

713
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 3: female revenge now. This is one of the first great

714
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 3: television cliphangers. It also sometimes gets credit for helping CNN

715
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 3: gay momentum because they launched that same year. SNL perioded

716
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: it on an episode sometimes called Who Shot cr? CR

717
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 3: being cast member Charles Rockett, and the episode provided cast

718
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 3: members with skits for how they'd kill CR. And at

719
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 3: the end of the episode he had lived I'd like to.

720
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 4: Know who did it?

721
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 3: A line that got him fired, And there was, of

722
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 3: course the Simpsons parody who shot mister Burns?

723
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 4: Apparently Jr.

724
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 3: Was shot again in the twenty twelve sequel or continuation.

725
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 3: I don't know, did not recover this time? Okay, actually gone?

726
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: I forgot that it was revamped.

727
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, like is.

728
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 5: It still going?

729
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 3: I think it might be really Yeah.

730
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 4: Well I learned a lot. I learned a lot.

731
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 3: So that's that's a good overview of that category. But

732
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 3: we have a couple more categories we wanted to touch on.

733
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 3: But first we have one more quick break for a

734
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor.

735
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 3: So another category we wanted to talk about. It's something

736
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 3: you kind of see in some of these films, the

737
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 3: system getting revenge against the system. So one example of

738
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 3: this is Zora Neil Hurston's short story Sweat, in which

739
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 3: allows her drunk, abusive, cheating husband, who thoughtlessly spends all

740
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 3: of her hard earned money, to walk in a path

741
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 3: of a snake that kills him and he had originally

742
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 3: planned that snake for her. She passively watches him die

743
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,959
Speaker 3: as the sun rises, ignoring his cries for help.

744
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 5: So another good movie Nine to five, which I was

745
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 5: thinking about after we watched First Wives Club, thinking maybe

746
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 5: we should have watched it as well.

747
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: I did watch it not.

748
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 4: Too long ago, you did, I did not go.

749
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 5: Yes, I did watch it a long time ago, and

750
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 5: I was like, my gosh, I don't know if this

751
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 5: could be remade. There's so many problematic issues to this.

752
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 5: But a nineteen eighty film about three women Lily Tomlin,

753
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 5: Dolly Parton, and Jane Fonda, who plot revenge against their

754
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 5: male boss who spreads lies about having sex with one

755
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 5: of them, Dolly Parton, and beat one of them out

756
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 5: for a promotion, Lily Tomlin, who she deserved it obviously,

757
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 5: and then also Jane Fonda comes in, who is the

758
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 5: new worker, trying to figure out how everything's going on.

759
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: What's happening there.

760
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 5: So while they have him trapped in a dog harness,

761
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 5: they put in place all sorts of feminist policy hours, childcare,

762
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 5: and equal pay. I believe they bring back one of

763
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 5: the receptionists that he fires during that time. So when

764
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 5: at the end they release the boss who actually takes

765
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 5: claim for doing all of these policies, which yeah, yeah,

766
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 5: and so they then he gets a promotion that actually

767
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 5: sends him to a completely different place, so they kind

768
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 5: of push him out, but he gets a promotion. Yeah,

769
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 5: but with that his superior who figures that all out,

770
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,479
Speaker 5: that everything actually works and it increases productivity. He keeps

771
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 5: all of that in place, except for the equal pay bit.

772
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 5: But that's kind of the revenge portion or the justice

773
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 5: vengeful portion is they got to keep the policies in

774
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 5: place while they got rid of him. He still got

775
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 5: the glory. But yeah, you know, nineteen eighties has to

776
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 5: be that way, right.

777
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 4: I guess so.

778
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 3: And I actually watched this film for the first time

779
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: two days ago.

780
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 4: Ridley Scott's nineteen ninety one Thelma and Louise.

781
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 3: Written by Callie Corey and starring and Srandon and Gena Davis.

782
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 3: When this movie first debuted, it was accused of negatively

783
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 3: portraying men all.

784
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, which it really doesn't.

785
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, most of the male characters are kind of like,

786
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 3: oh yeah, you sympathize with them. In twenty sixteen, this

787
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 3: movie was named for Preservation to the National Film Registry

788
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 3: by the US Library of Congress for being quote culturally, historically,

789
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 3: are esthetically significant. And it's about two best friends who

790
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 3: go on a weekend vacation together kind of goes a

791
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 3: little awry.

792
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 4: After a man.

793
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 3: Attempts to rape Thelma, Louise finds them and threatens him

794
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 3: with a gun, ultimately shooting him and forcing the pair

795
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 3: to flee. After discussing their options, they decide that the

796
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: authorities won't believe them, and so they decide let's.

797
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 4: Go to Mexico.

798
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 3: It turns out Louise was raped years earlier in Texas,

799
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 3: and she is insistent that they avoid going through that state.

800
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 3: The FBI closes in, and after committing a series of

801
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: crimes that they decide to quote keep going and drive

802
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 3: off a cliff rather than go to jail. They can't

803
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 3: beat the system, so they take each other's hands and

804
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 3: drive over the Grand Canyon. And I when I was

805
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 3: watching this, which I really enjoyed it, it made me

806
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 3: Movies like that always make me think of The Awakening,

807
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 3: which I had to read like three times in high school. Yeah,

808
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 3: where you get you get like a taste Kate Japan. Yeah,

809
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: and you can't go back, like, oh, once you taste freedom, Yeah,

810
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: it's so overrange.

811
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, you just can't go back.

812
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: And then kind of in a different track is first

813
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 3: Wivestuff Yes, which is the nineteen ninety six movie directed

814
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: by he willis based on the Olivia Goldsmith novel about

815
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 3: women getting revenge on their ex husbands after the men

816
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 3: ditch them for the younger models. You can see our

817
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 3: whole episode we did on it for more about.

818
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 5: That one as well, so you may have also seen

819
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 5: our live feed on that one.

820
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,959
Speaker 4: It was fun. It was fun.

821
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 5: Then we have another Tarantino movie which came out in

822
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 5: two thousand and seven, death Proof, and I will say

823
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 5: it was one of my favorite movies. Submit My Mike,

824
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,439
Speaker 5: played by Kurt Russell, seems like a totally nice guy,

825
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 5: but in reality takes pleasure in tormenting women with this

826
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 5: indestructible car. Is told in two parts. In the first

827
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 5: part that meant Mike kills four women with his car.

828
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 5: By the way, the character of Jungle Julia is played

829
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 5: by Sidney Poitier's daughter Sidney Poitier, which the sheriff suspects

830
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 5: is because of a sexual nature when he kills these women.

831
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 5: The film seemingly restarts with a similar setup. Three women

832
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 5: in the film industry, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Rosario Dawson, and

833
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 5: Tracy Toms and they're all followed by step meant Mike

834
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 5: as they pick up Zoe real life stunt woman Zoe Bells,

835
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 5: whom a Thurman stunt double and kill Bill and has

836
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 5: been on several more of Tarantino's movies after the fact

837
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 5: as an actress and not just a stunt person. So

838
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 5: he convinces them to try out a stunt car, which

839
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 5: is a reference to all the old school chase movies.

840
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: Muscle muscle cars.

841
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 5: But as she's performing on Writing on the Hood, Mike

842
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 5: slay into them. A skirmish follows with a chase with

843
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 5: Mike getting away, but the women decide to kill him

844
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 5: and they do.

845
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: I think it has some.

846
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 5: Of the best lines, over the top ridiculous lines. It

847
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 5: does also kind of become problem not kind of. It

848
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 5: does become problematic as the main driver is a black woman,

849
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 5: Tracy Toms, who kind of goes over the top with

850
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 5: the whole expectation type of idea of being an angry,

851
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 5: violent black woman. So that's problematic in himself, which we

852
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 5: can talk about that as an issue in Tarantino and

853
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 5: his movies and thinking that he has permission.

854
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: To elaborate on that as a white man. But whatever.

855
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 5: This again was produced by Weinstein's and also just as

856
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 5: a reminder, Death Proof was actually a part of a

857
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 5: double feature with the Planet Terror done by Michael Rodriguez.

858
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 5: Rose mcgallan was in both of those movies, and so

859
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 5: you see kind of a culmination of ugh.

860
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 4: Well yeah.

861
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 3: And I watched this as part of leading up to

862
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 3: this as well, and it was weird because Kurt Russell's

863
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 3: whole thing his car's death through because as long as

864
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 3: he's in the driver's see, as long as his power,

865
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 3: he can't be killed, right, And he first person he

866
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 3: kills is Rose McGowan, who's just like, Okay, you know,

867
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: I just need to write home.

868
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 4: And it's hard not to see parallels, like real life.

869
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 5: Parallel, especially because she is the woman who kind of

870
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 5: tells them something's wrong, things are happening, something's wrong. Yeah,

871
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 5: And then I will say it took me a couple

872
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 5: of watches because of the first half of the movie

873
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 5: before I really like I was like, oh, I actually

874
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 5: do like this movie, but it's so grotesque that beginning part,

875
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 5: and it's so overtly sexist. But then you have that

876
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 5: second half with Zoe Bell and her and her bad ass.

877
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 1: Ray I mean, she is amazing.

878
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 5: If you actually ever watch just like snippets of her

879
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 5: doing all these amazing, amazing stunts, it's phenomenal.

880
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

881
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 5: Just oh, but I also appreciate the stark difference in

882
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 5: Russell's character in the two halves, the beginning and to

883
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 5: the end of what he's begging and crying like a

884
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 5: little child because he actually gets injured. Yeah, I mean

885
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 5: it is kind of an interesting twist. I will say that.

886
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 3: I really appreciate how it's one of the few revenge

887
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: films for me where it just is like, you know what,

888
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 3: we're not really going to try to make sense.

889
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 4: We're just going to lean into the fantasy aspect of this.

890
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 3: And I love when Zoe's fine they think she might

891
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 3: be hurt, she popped up, She's totally fine and she's like,

892
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 3: you want to kill that guy and like, okay, I'll

893
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 3: kill yeah.

894
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 5: And they do have Rosario Dawson as being the mama character,

895
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 5: so they definitely have those tropes in there as well.

896
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then okay, this is the last one I watched.

897
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 3: Two thousand and five is Hard Candy, starring very young

898
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 3: Ellen Page as a young woman who hunts pedophiles so

899
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 3: it starts with kind of like a text exchange, like

900
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 3: a chattering exchange, and she's playing all like, oh yeah,

901
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 3: so sweet, and gets up to this guy's place. Then

902
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 3: she rufi's him, tortures him. Oh it's it's a.

903
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: Lot, it's a lot.

904
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 5: I do think that one of the things about this film,

905
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 5: and it is purposeful, is you have doubt about who

906
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 5: is the good guy versus the bad guy, or the

907
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 5: good person versus the bad person, because you have doubts

908
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 5: about who's telling the truth right, and going back and

909
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 5: forth and back and forth and back and forth, and

910
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 5: then you know, it reveals itself slowly. I will say,

911
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 5: many of men have told me how awful this movie

912
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 5: is and how they would never watch it and never

913
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 5: want to see it again nevere and I was like,

914
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 5: what happens? I don't understand, why is it so bad?

915
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 5: But that one scene where he's on the table is

916
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 5: what has gotten all of them, which I find hilarious

917
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 5: to a point. I'm like, do you not see all

918
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 5: of these awful things that happened to women? That is

919
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 5: literally the plot, the beginning, the catalyst, and that was

920
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 5: the most I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not great, No,

921
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 5: but it's definitely not the worst thing that I've seen

922
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 5: in the movie.

923
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was tense. I was very on edge. That's

924
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 4: the last thing I watched before.

925
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: No wonder you looked at me with surprise, and then

926
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 3: they're just Vengeance.

927
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 5: Yes, Vengeance two thousand and five, Chan Park will This

928
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 5: is the third and final entry into the Vengeance trilogy,

929
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 5: which is a three obviously three part series trilogy. And

930
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 5: if All is a woman wrongly convicted of murdering a

931
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 5: child and after she does her time in jail and

932
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 5: is released, she finds it real killer and gets her

933
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 5: revenge again.

934
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: This is another Korean thriller.

935
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 5: I will say I've not seen this one mainly because

936
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 5: I wanted to start with the first one, which I

937
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 5: don't think they actually aligned it anyway, but I still

938
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 5: wanted to do it that way. But the first one, again,

939
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 5: these are really intimate, intense movies, and I'm like, I

940
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 5: don't know if I can do this one right now,

941
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 5: which again, I cannot believe you watched all of these

942
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 5: back to back to back to back.

943
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 4: I'm going home and I'm like just gonna.

944
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: Even watch How to Train a Dragon, aren't you.

945
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 4: Or Harry Potter, right, I'll do what I have to do.

946
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 3: And then there's CBS is Why Women Kill from creator

947
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 3: Mark Cherry, which tracks the revenge of three women played

948
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 3: by Jennifer Goodwin, Lucy Lou and Kirby Howell Baptiste from

949
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 3: three different decades living in the same house whose husbands

950
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 3: I think all of their husbands cheated on them.

951
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 4: And then Handmaid's Tale maybe.

952
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 5: Maybe I think it's like, yeah, I guess system, Yeah, System,

953
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 5: and I would say Foxy Brown. I don't want to

954
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 5: put too much attention to it because it's definitely part

955
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 5: of the nineteen seventies era of blaxploitation films that occurred,

956
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 5: and there was a lot of problematic issues. At one point,

957
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 5: you want to celebrate because it's a strong black woman

958
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 5: who gets to be the lead and who gets her vengeance,

959
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 5: but at the same time, the stereotype of are being

960
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 5: angry as well as violent, as well as a prostitute.

961
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 5: All of these things kind of have this back and forth.

962
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 5: Pam Greer, though, is a force, so you know, people

963
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 5: kind of looked up to that as well.

964
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: So this kind of this fine line.

965
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 5: But it is a tale of a girlfriend avenging the

966
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 5: death of her cop boyfriend, so I think it is

967
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:47,959
Speaker 5: something to know about as well.

968
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 3: There are so many There are so many, we can

969
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 3: keep going, going and going. We do you want to

970
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 3: one more small category? Well, I guess one and a

971
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 3: half is supernatural. There are super naw natural kind of

972
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 3: vengeance stories. So many of them are about adolescents. My

973
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 3: theory again that we're so afraid of female sexuality, especially

974
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 3: in young women.

975
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 4: Wuthering Heights could be an example of this.

976
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 3: I saw it in a lot of things, Heathcliff Revenge

977
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 3: on Henley and Catherine, but it's not really I mean,

978
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: it's been a long time since I've read that book.

979
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: I don't know a lot of people included it, so

980
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 3: I thought i'd throw it in there.

981
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I didn't think about that one.

982
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,959
Speaker 5: Carrie in nineteen seventy six Brian de Palmer film based

983
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 5: on the novel by Stephen Keane classic teenage body adolescents,

984
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 5: vengeance horror periods.

985
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

986
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 5: Carrie uses her abilities to get revenge on her very religious,

987
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 5: over the top strict mother and on the classmates who

988
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 5: publicly make fun of her by dumping pig's blood on her.

989
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: Head at prom.

990
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, causing this whole rift of things to happen because

991
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 5: she is teased. We're being awkward and over the top strange.

992
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 4: Yes, and also can Carrie too, which I have seen.

993
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 5: I have not seen that.

994
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 2: Well.

995
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 4: I don't know what's worth it.

996
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 3: But the craft, the craft.

997
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 4: This one's kind of tricky.

998
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 3: And this is another one we'll probably eventually do a

999
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: whole oh yeah, oh yeah. But in brief new Girl

1000
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 3: Sarah Bailey becomes friends with rumored witches and definite outcast. Yeah,

1001
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 3: it turns out they actually are whiches, and through a

1002
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 3: series of events, they cast revenge spells and beauty cells,

1003
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 3: all kinds of spells on people who have done them

1004
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 3: wrong or on themselves to make themselves prettier. But of

1005
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 3: course the spells have negative side effects, surprise, surprise, and

1006
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,879
Speaker 3: eventually the women for the most part, turn against each

1007
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 3: other kind of get revenge on each other.

1008
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 5: Right, And we will be watching that one for sure.

1009
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 5: I think it will remain include like hocus Pocus and

1010
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,760
Speaker 5: oh which is of Eastwick? I think those are definitely

1011
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 5: things that we will have to do well. Shutter A

1012
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 5: two thousand and eight. Most of YACKI Ogi American remake

1013
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 5: of Time movie. In the movie, newlyweds Ben and Jane

1014
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 5: moved to Tokyo, so Ben, played by Joshua Jackson, can

1015
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 5: pursue a career in photography. Side note, why are all

1016
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 5: these horror movies in Japan? Well, talk about.

1017
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 3: The the American remakes are always in Japan. Yeah, kind

1018
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 3: of funny.

1019
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 5: Why While out driving, Jane accidentally hits a woman in

1020
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 5: the middle of the road, but shaker, the body disappears.

1021
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: Photos start to show up with mysterious lights, spirit photography

1022
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:13,240
Speaker 1: quote unquote.

1023
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 5: Jane starts to have visions and feels a presence hanging

1024
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 5: over her. Turns out that Ben had a photograph his

1025
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 5: friends raping her and doing nothing to stop it, and

1026
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,439
Speaker 5: the ghost was hanging on Ben's shoulder, which actually also

1027
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 5: it was because he.

1028
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: Was having an affair with her.

1029
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 5: She wanted to stay with him, and this was his

1030
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 5: way of getting her away from him.

1031
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 3: Right, So when she hit the woman in the beginning,

1032
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 3: it was already the ghost, right right, And then we've

1033
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 3: discussed Jennifer's body before. This is a two thousand and

1034
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 3: nine movie directed by Karen Kusama, written by Diabolo Cody

1035
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 3: and starting Megan Fox as the titular character who was

1036
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 3: offered up as a verd and sacrifice in a Satanic ritual.

1037
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 3: Also just watched this for the first time and read

1038
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 3: so much about it.

1039
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 5: See, I'm really suy you didn't tell me about that

1040
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 5: because I wanted to watch this one with you. I

1041
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 5: remember talking to you about this, as you know, it's

1042
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 5: supposed to be funny trope and dah da da dah.

1043
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:00,959
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I'm really sad I missed out.

1044
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 3: On I learned so much because right now it's going

1045
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 3: through kind of a like resurgence.

1046
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 5: Oh is it?

1047
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 3: Yes, and they're saying because the time is right is

1048
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 3: before it's time. But also the marketing campaign they tried

1049
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 3: to convince Megan Fox to like start a porn site.

1050
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 3: They just marketed it all wrong. Yeah, it's really gross.

1051
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: I don't remember that.

1052
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 4: I learned a lot.

1053
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 3: But anyway, she wasn't a virgin Megan Fox's character, so

1054
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 3: she becomes possessed instead permanently and goes on a killing spree,

1055
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 3: killing dudes. It doesn't really sound like a revenge fantasy

1056
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 3: at first, but some have interpreted as Jennifer's body getting

1057
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 3: revenge on those who abused her that the sacrificing of

1058
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 3: a young woman being sacrificed by a minute altar is

1059
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 3: too reminiscent of Harvey Weinstein the system that allowed for

1060
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 3: it to happen.

1061
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 4: And also at the.

1062
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 3: End, her friend gets revenge on the band, right she

1063
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 3: does Adam Brody.

1064
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 5: Adam Brody because he's also going to be in the

1065
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 5: movie we just talked about with Kerry Mulligan.

1066
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: He's one of the nice.

1067
00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 3: Guys that's right then, ready or not where he's kind

1068
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 3: of like actually a nice guy.

1069
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: Oh really, I didn't see that one.

1070
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,879
Speaker 4: Oh man. And then we're not going to go into

1071
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 4: this one.

1072
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 3: But I was thinking about some metaphorical revenge movies we're

1073
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: if you're talking about like female vengeance as seen through

1074
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 3: climate change or Mother Earth?

1075
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 4: Right this.

1076
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 3: I remember when I saw mother exclamation point and everyone

1077
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 3: was like, what is it a metaphor for?

1078
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 4: And some people thought it was Mother Earth?

1079
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah, But that's a lot of our That.

1080
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 4: Is a lot.

1081
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: That's a lot, that's a whole.

1082
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 3: But that brings us to the end of this episode.

1083
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 3: If you if we missed any if you want to

1084
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 3: share any.

1085
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 5: So many oh yeah we did, so you should tell

1086
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:39,760
Speaker 5: us your favorite exactly.

1087
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 3: Send your favorites to our email Stuff Media mom Stuff

1088
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 3: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also find us on Twitter, app,

1089
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 3: mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram at stuff I've Never

1090
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 3: Told You.

1091
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 4: Thanks.

1092
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 3: It's always to our super producer Andrew Howard, hekay, thanks, and.

1093
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 4: Thanks to you for listening.

1094
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 3: Step moom Never Told You his production of iHeart Radios

1095
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 3: how stuff Works.

1096
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit.

1097
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 3: The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts

1098
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 4: Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.