WEBVTT - Through the Virtual Looking Glass 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.680 In our first episode, we began with a foundational exploration 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:08.400 of what exactly five G is and how will be 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.600 framing our thoughts on the future of connectivity. We spoke 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:16.120 with Andrea Goldsmith, Professor of Engineering at Stanford University, Flynn Coleman, 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.079 author of a Human Algorithm, and Durga Maladi, senior Vice 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:33.080 president of four G and five G at Qualcom. Maybe 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.120 it seems obvious, but business is changing and much of 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:40.440 that change from digital transformation to workplace innovation is driven 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:45.000 by critical advancements in mobility. Platforms like virtual reality will 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.720 eventually become solutions for how to get business done. Thanks 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.720 for support from Teamobile for Business. We're here to explore 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.960 how five G will enable future innovations in virtual and 0:00:55.040 --> 0:01:07.759 augmented reality that can advance our future. Yeah. You can 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.160 get very easily lost in a space because you don't 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.399 know what it's opened down. The only reference you have 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:19.080 is the Earth and the space station. That's Evelyn Mirales. 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.520 She's describing the feeling of leaving the International Space Station 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.520 to complete a mission in zero gravity, when the dark 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.319 comes and the light to start fading, the darkest, so 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.360 dark that you can touch it when you get out 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.320 of the airlock and you're just coming out and you're 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.600 holding you know, your hand with the handrail, and that's 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.120 the only point you have the connection with the real world, 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.640 and then everything else is like, oh my god, you 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:56.560 can just just fly away from Evelyn ran Virtual Reality 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.320 at NASA. One of her missions was to be an 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.200 identical copy of the space station where astronauts could train 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:09.720 before going there themselves. They call used from space and say, hey, 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.400 I want to tell you, this looks just like the 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.440 vir Lab. And it was their feeling that they knew 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:21.520 more of what they were in relation to the vehicle 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.880 by doing it virtually first, so every time they did 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.880 it for real, they will compare it in their minds 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.880 with the synthetic world they already saw. And did you 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.440 ever try your own mission? I mean, did you go 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.520 to space in the headset? Yes? Yeah, you know. People 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:41.120 ask me that, well, don't you want to be an 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.200 astrona and said, well, I've been an astronaut virtually many times, 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.280 so yes, I've done it. And what did you feel 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.839 like when the astronauts called you from space saying that 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.720 what they were seeing resembled exactly the world that you 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:57.600 had built. It's an incredible feeling is an accomplishment. And 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.720 you know what, we say, okay, great, next because we 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:05.640 have so many missus to cover that that it was like, okay, great, wonderful, 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.000 let's do the next one. You know, that sense of 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.080 mission and of using VR for a concrete, real world 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.799 objective is crucial to understanding how far reaching this technology 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:24.120 could be. But it also allows us to dream. This 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.720 is something that I always dream about and I always 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.920 wanted to go to the Moon. My dream will be 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.400 that as the technology is better with Fiji and beyond 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.920 in the future, is to actually transmit what the astronauts 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:46.000 are looking through the helmets, and they will be following 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:50.120 an astronauts as they step into the surface of the moon. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.680 So imagine what it will be. I mean, just think 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.720 of it for a minute. I mean, everybody around the 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.800 world can follow these people bound seen in the more 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:05.040 will will be there with it. Virtual reality has left 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.360 the realm of science fiction. For a few hundred dollars, 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.560 you can buy a VR headset and use it to 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.720 play immersive games or experience new kinds of art in 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:18.240 virtual worlds. But the technology goes so far beyond entertainment. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.000 Not only does NASA use it to train astronauts, but 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.599 around the world it's helping people learn new skills, cope 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:30.320 with trauma, and even reduce physical pain. So can creater 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.800 connectivity and lower latency technological advances we expect will arrive 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:39.599 with the implementation of five G unleash new possibility. A 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.560 few decades ago, just a handful of people could imagine 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.000 using VR to train astronauts for space. So if we 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.640 look a few decades ahead, what role could be our 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:55.200 play in our future? In this episode, we'll explore how 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.039 virtual reality is being used to help people prepare for 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.120 the real world, not escape it, and at how advances 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:06.119 in connectivity and wireless technology promised by five G could 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.120 make virtual reality even more immersive and even more powerful 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.320 by increasing the user's sense of presence in the virtual world. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.960 I'm mos Velocian and this is This Time Tomorrow, a 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:23.159 podcast about how advances in connectivity could change the way 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:30.760 we live. Karen Evidence is a computer scientist who built 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:34.359 a VR system starting in the early nineties. To most people, 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.839 that would have been a complete pipe dream, but she 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.560 was doing something to solve a very practical problem, which 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.279 was how do you train astronauts to go to space 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.039 when they're still on Earth. You don't tell them about 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.120 freeze dried food, because if you do, they won't go. 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.400 I think that the first time VR was introduced in 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.520 science fiction within a series of short stories from ninety 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:59.159 three by Lawrence Manning called The Man Who Awoke? Have 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.760 you been doing, homeworker? I've done this for a while okay. 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:07.640 In the series, proto VR was described as dream dramas 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:12.160 were in the main character encounters matrix like dream palaces, 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:16.280 where the dramas being projected to the sleeping were more 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.919 desirable than awaking state. Well, I didn't know that the 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.280 dreams of VR when that far back, but at least 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.719 for the last ten years people have been excited about 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.239 it becoming a widely adopted technology. So I was struck 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.560 in the last episode when Durga Malady of Calcom told 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.360 us that VR is actually one area that five G 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.400 is poised to transform. And this, according to Dager, is 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:43.039 for two reasons. Number one, lower latency can make the 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.640 experience feel way more realistic and number two, higher bandwidth 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.920 means that the computing can take place locally on small cells, 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.360 and that means that the bulky headsets could dramatically reduce 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:59.520 in size, and I could achieve my dream of finally 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:03.520 becoming one with my iPhone. You know, in pop culture, 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.400 from the beginning, we've thought of VR as a means 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.159 to escape, or to play games, or to exist in 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.080 an alternate space, a dream pace, so to speak. Yeah, 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.320 and while a lot of people do use it for 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.480 gaming and entertainment, I was fascinated by what you said 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.200 about preparing people for experiences in the real world. You 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.520 mentioned that people often in clinical settings are using VR 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.000 to treat pain and trauma, and it's becoming a popular 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:32.040 training tool, you know, from soldiers to surgeons to airline pilots. 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:37.600 But there are limitations to the technology, both ergonomically and 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.440 with connectivity. Well, no one feels very cool or comfortable 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.240 wearing a bulky headset or being tethered to a massive 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:48.320 computer exactly. And it makes me think about what the 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.200 VR of tomorrow might look like. You know, I am 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.800 currently able to play ping pong against a terminator robot 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.920 without owning a ping pong table. I did it this weekend. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.560 But that's not changing anybody's life. You know. Think about 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.680 a world where a car engineer can test build an 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:09.320 entire car without spending any money on parts. In this episode, 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.239 we're going to go back to Evelyn to learn about 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.080 how she developed the vir l Abbot NASA that helped 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.280 prepare these astronauts for life in space. And recently I 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.000 traveled to Philadelphia to learn more about a program that's 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:25.080 using virtual reality with an unexpected population. Juvenile lifers are 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.280 individuals who were sentenced to life in prison as juveniles, 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.760 meaning under the age of eighteen, which was actually deemed 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.800 unconstitutional in it's hard to believe it was that recent. 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.200 You know, juvenile offenders connote someone young, but it's actually 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.560 the opposite. It's someone who was sentenced to life in 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.080 prison when they were essentially a kid, and for some 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.680 it's been decades. So Pennsylvania was faced with this challenge. 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.520 How would they prepare people who had been in prison 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.240 for ten twenty plus years to live in the quote 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:59.000 real world. Before we get there, we'll talk to Jeff Marshall, 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.600 who has a virtual reality product that you and I 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:08.600 both tried, Kara, to help us practice our public speaking. So, Kara, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.000 you and I are not astronauts. I am I went 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.480 to space camp. I'm an astronaut. That's true. Okay, well 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.320 I'll speak for myself. I'm not an astronaut, but together 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.960 we did use VR to prepare for a difficult assignment. Yeah. 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.920 We actually got asked to speak at Johns Hopkins University 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.600 about AI and medicine, and we were extremely nervous, to 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:32.120 say the least. So I had read about something called 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.840 Ovation in the New Yorker, which is a VR public 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.520 speaking tool, and so I did what anybody does when 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.160 they read about someone in the New Yorker. I called him, 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.480 this guy, Jeff Marshall, and I asked him to give 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.440 us a training. So it's completely nuts. I was wearing 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.280 this huge headset and holding two controllers in my hands, 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.920 and all of a sudden, I'm facing this unsmiling lecture 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.640 theater full of people who look somewhere between board and 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.360 outright hostile. And then you have to win these people over. 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.480 And sometimes they're on their phones, they're signed because they're 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:09.160 board scratching themselves. But that's how immersive it is. You know, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:13.080 My pulse was elevated, palms were sweating, not as sweaty 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.400 as mine. But one of the cool things about the 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:19.080 product evation is that you get feedback afterwards. Did you 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:20.720 look too much at the less side of the room, 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.200 did you pause too much? We're using fillo words like 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.280 um and ah and ooh and so and right, and 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.959 I actually answered yes to all of those questions. So 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.920 when it came to actually delivering the speech, we had 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.360 this sense of deja vu. It was the same lecture hall, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.840 they were the same faces, and I do think that 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.160 actually took some of the fear out of it. And 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.720 part of the mission of this show is to uncover 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.319 applications that businesses might build on top of five G 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.760 and VR for public speaking does seem like a natural 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.320 area to explore. So I've been thinking about VR for 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:57.800 five six years now and can't get it off my 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:04.280 brain that Jeff Marshall speaking the founder of ovation. I 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.480 wanted to know how he got started. I can remember 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.280 that first experience. It was called Titans of Space. You 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:18.319 are essentially guided through the Solar System from the Sun 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.240 to the outer planets. And what what blew my mind 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.560 the most about it is how you could just get 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.480 a sense of the scale of the Solar System, which 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:31.320 you simply can't get from a textbook. Around the same time, 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:35.240 I had taken a public speaking class at Arizona State 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:40.239 University as a way to get me past my incredible 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.800 fear of public speaking, the sort of exposure therapy, forced 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:48.040 exposure therapy to cure that, and I fell in love 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.120 with that class. I loved it. I loved the process 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.959 of preparing for a speech, and I loved delivering it. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.760 And I was trying to think, how can I build 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.360 some sort of application in R that's useful? How can 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:03.800 I create something? And so the two just kind of 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.439 came together in my mind. Why don't NIGHT take VR 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.600 and this new found passion I have for public speaking, 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.960 combine them, see if there's something there. And that was 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.440 the beginning of ovation, which is now used by all 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:22.120 kinds of educators and businesses. Essentially everybody gives some sort 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.120 of public speech, whether it's to three people or three 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.960 thousand people, in every industry you can think of. And 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.640 we said, okay, well, why don't we make this software 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:37.160 generic enough to solve this lack of public speaking training 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:42.200 for everyone? So how does it actually work? You put 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.840 on the VR headset, you select a venue where you're 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:51.120 going to speak. The boardroom, UH, conference room, classroom, a courtroom, 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.880 So you select one of these and then you populate 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.600 it with an audience. These are real people who we hired, 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.760 brought into our studio and scan end them into three 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.080 D models. We then animate them to pull out a 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.760 cell phone, to cough, to look at their neighbor, to 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.680 scratch their leg, to do what an audience does. If 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.680 you want to project or behind you, a timer on 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.320 the wall, if you want a microphone in your hands, 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.120 all these are virtual objects. If you've used it in 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.440 a speech before, odds are we have a virtual version 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.600 of that. The goal is to make the experience as 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.120 true to life as possible, because the more real that 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.280 the virtual reality is, the better it can prepare you 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.800 full real reality. It's a phenomenon called presence. Presence is 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.920 this idea that for a moment, your subconscious really thinks 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.240 you're in that virtual world. Your real self is in there. 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:50.520 This idea of presence is probably the single most important 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:56.560 part of VR because it allows you to focus entirely 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.720 on what's going on inside that headset. You don't have 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.920 this actions outside of it. You sort of have all 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.880 of your faculties focused on this virtual world and whatever 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:10.320 the designer decided to show you. And it's amazing how 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.480 effective that can be. It's this presence that makes VA 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.560 a useful tool for everyone from people preparing to give 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.160 speeches to people preparing to go to the moon. But 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.480 significant barriers remain, particularly when it comes to mobile VA. 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.840 There are a number of limitations with VR right now 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.160 that I wish I could snap my fingers and get 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.680 rid of. So right now you need a very high 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:41.360 end sort of gaming PC to drive our experience, and 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.600 of course I would rather that not be the case. 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.960 It would be nice to just have a headset that 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.800 you put on and everything that you need to renovation 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.920 is in that headset. It's incredibly liberating to not have 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.040 to feel that cord running off your back, to know 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.680 that you can do a full three sixty without getting 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.040 tangled up. Ultimately, you just want a pair of glasses 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.320 that you wear that are no more uncomfortable than the 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.120 normal classes you were now. The problem right now is 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.760 that to render the most immersive VR experiences, we still 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.920 need the processing power of computers and bulky headsets, and 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.680 that's where five G could offer a solution. Remote rendering 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:28.840 of virtual reality software is extremely exciting. You flip the 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.360 headset on, you put it on your head, you launched 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.760 the application and everything just works. You don't need to 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:39.160 plug in any chords, you don't need to update any drivers, 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:43.040 you don't need to restart your computer because it isn't working. 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.840 And so one of the solutions to this problem is 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.120 edge computing, which is this idea of building many more 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:56.840 smaller data centers closer to highly populated areas and routing 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:01.720 the VR signals they're having a process there and sent 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.520 back to that use of directly. All of this could 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.440 make the experience of VIA more immersive and more widely 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.680 adopted to solve real world problems. When you move your 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.960 head in the real world, you never feel like there's 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.800 some sort of lag, like the world is catching up 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.320 to your head movement, and that needs to be the 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:23.479 case in VR as well. Five g offers this promise 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.280 that you'll have latency low enough that you can trick 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.400 the brain into thinking that in a VR headset, when 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.320 you move your head, that virtual world is going to 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:38.880 keep up, and that's extremely important for all sorts of 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:44.120 different applications in VR. Garrol what was so interesting about 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.520 the ovation experience was for me, you know, it's essentially 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.720 just a form of practice, not so dissimilar in principle 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.680 from practicing speech in front of the mirror. But when 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.640 you add this immersive element, it almost allowed my brain 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.080 to believe the situation was real, and I think that 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:09.000 in turn made the real situation less stressful and probably better. Well. 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.360 Many of us relate to a fear of public speaking. 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.280 For some people, just being in public is something they 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.359 need to prepare for. I wanted to learn more about 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.439 a program that offers training and support to those who 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.840 are preparing to be in public for the first time 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.639 in a long time, people who have spent much of 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:32.359 their adult lives in prison. I don't know if I 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:40.840 got About a year ago, I read a story written 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.600 by Nicole Lewis for the Marshall Project about juvenile lifers 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.439 in Pennsylvania's correction system who were using virtual reality to 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.680 prepare for their imminent release. I wanted to learn more, 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.000 so I went to meet Daniel McIntyre, who helped develop 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.240 the program. Everybody just called me Danny Mack. I'm the 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.879 director of the Bureau of Community to Corrections for the 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.560 Department of Corrections for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If I 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:05.960 passed Daniel in the street, it would be easy to 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.040 guess that he worked for the Bureau of Corrections. He 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.080 looks like he's in charge. He has a serious handlebar mustache, 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.840 but within a few minutes of talking with him, it 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.880 was clear that his warmth and authenticity are contagious. Basically, 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:22.080 what I do is oversee all the state run operated 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.920 group homes, so people coming out of a state correctional 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.439 institution that do not have a home plan that we 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.520 want to successfully reintegrate and get them back into the 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.400 communities and get them working and doing positive things will 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:40.439 come to a center in the Supreme Court held that 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.240 it was unconstitutional to sentence a juvenile offender to mandatory 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:50.399 life without parole. In this decision was made retroactive, meaning 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.240 that a whole population of prisoners who thought they would 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.760 never be released were suddenly preparing for life on the outside. 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.720 Since that's occurred, we've had over two under juvenile life 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.120 is released back into the communities. It's a slow process 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:06.960 back in because if you can imagine going from an 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.560 institution for thirty or forty years then back into the 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:11.920 community as it is now with technology and everything that's 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.200 out there, it's overwhelming. Too many of them think about 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:19.960 that for a moment, thirty or forty years, that's longer 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.800 than I've been alive, Like you know, we had a 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.560 juvenile life. For that, we transported across the state and 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:28.920 stopped at a rest stop, and he couldn't figure out 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:33.160 how to wash his hands because the sensors so things 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:34.800 that we take for granted that you had no idea 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.800 how to do. So Secretary Wetzel holding all of his 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.560 administration and basically said, listen, what can we do. Do 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.479 we douce the stress and anxiety and increase their chances 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:46.120 for a successful re entry. And that's how this whole 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.119 program virtuality initially started. So I thought, what if we 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.639 videotaped in three sixty so we can show them the 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.800 center of the facility that they released two Virtually three 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.400 hundred and sixty degree video is import because it means 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.720 that wherever the user turns, there's something for them to see. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.640 It creates the sense of presence that Oz mentioned earlier, 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.840 which is crucial because with v R, the more you 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.000 trick your brain into thinking what you're experiencing is real, 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.160 the more effective it can be as a training environment. 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:20.720 And they started out showing what the outside looked like. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.919 The cars going by with the traffics like the people uh. 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.679 And then you came inside the facility in each location 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:29.720 kind of with the room would look like you know 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.040 where they're gonna be eating, the processing through the facility. 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.440 So is interesting when you talk to the juvenile life 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.160 is many of them like it's like deja vu, deja vu. 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.000 When people arrive at these community centers, they feel as 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.680 if they've already visited them, which in a way they have. 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.919 These community centers are crucial for recently released inmates. Daniel 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:56.040 told me about instances when former inmates were so uncomfortable 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.280 living on their own that they would ask to come 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.000 back for a few days. I met Daniel at one 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.200 of these centers for a monthly meet up for formerly 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.919 incarcerated juvenile lifers. I wanted to know what it was 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.479 really like for someone who had been incarcerated to use 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.560 VR to readjust to life on the outside. So I 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:19.919 talked to Dwight Whetstone. I couldn't believe how like everywhere 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.520 I turned my face on my head it was I 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.480 was seeing what was should be there. You know what 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.720 I actually ever seen in the room before. That's that's 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:34.119 I think that's ridiculous. He wasna. Dwighte was sentenced to 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.720 life in prison when he was sixteen for his involvement 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.960 in a fatal robbery. He was released about seven months 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.040 ago and the transition has been hard on him. No, no, 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:47.680 I just right, Like I said with an emotional I've 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.480 broke down in public like SIVI severn times this bus 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:52.960 out in tears. I needed to be out here and 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.040 met you know, like I don't feel so like Phillies 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.640 in my city and what I lost that relatione. After 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.639 speaking with Dwighte for a aisle, the thing that struck 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.879 me most was how unprepared he was for the outside world, 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.640 how overwhelming it was for him, having spent over twenty 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.479 years as an inmate. In that way, the VR headset 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.080 provided a bit of preparation for his impending release. I'm 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.280 seeing that video like like edged like it burned his 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:21.560 images into my head, so I knew exactly with how 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:23.560 to come through the process and you know all that 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.560 so um to see the building itself after the after that, 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:29.480 it was it was kind of comforting a little bit 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:35.159 say that, and then that video didn't prepare me for everything. 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.680 I was that as all you know I experienced, but 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:41.840 at least for the space it was, it was comfortable. 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:47.480 Actually coming in real life, those recently released from prison 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:51.800 face profound challenges, and if I learned anything it's that 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:54.919 it's a long adjustment process that can't be solved with 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.320 any quick fix. And no one I spoke to on 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:00.879 my visit claimed that virtual reality transfer warm the experience 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:04.240 into something easy or simple, but it is a resource. 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:08.280 Since the first rollout of this program in Pennsylvania, other 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:12.600 states such as Colorado and Florida have followed suit. Dan 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:15.960 is continuing the State of Pennsylvania's work on other applications 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:19.480 of the VR that help inmates experience life outside of 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:22.560 prison even before they get there. So what we do 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:25.760 is we asked them, because that's sometimes the best thing, 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:28.159 what would they like to see? And that's where we 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.080 got the idea of having just what it's like to 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:33.480 cross the street. That was a big concern. We didn't 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.000 realize he's even there. But you know, back when they 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:38.359 were thirty or four years ago, it wasn't as crazy 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:41.360 it is now. But to reduce the stress and anxiety 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:44.440 associated with this and doing it successfully re integrate them 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:47.360 back into the community, anything we can do to get 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:51.280 one more person successful and stay out from coming back 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:54.840 is we'll do anything we can get those outcomes. The 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.200 thing I kept coming back to and talking to both 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:00.320 Dan and White, is how unlikely it will us that 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:04.080 VR would play a role in Dwight's re entry. Someone 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:06.960 like Dwight encountered a technology that was like nothing he'd 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:11.040 ever seen in his life before prison. Here's Dan's perspective. 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:14.800 When I was exposed to virtuality, I realized the impact 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:18.720 it could have on the cost associated with training individuals 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:22.040