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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease. Everybody loves her. She's beautiful,

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Speaker 1: she's incredibly talented, she's amazing, she's a hard worker, she's

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Speaker 1: a wonderful daughter, a wonderful friend. But her life is

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Speaker 1: in danger. Does anybody not know the name Taylor Swift?

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Speaker 1: You don't have to be a Swiftie. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to adore her like many of us do to understand

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Speaker 1: that this woman has broken all barriers. She is amazing,

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Speaker 1: So why can't we put her accur behind bars and

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Speaker 1: keep him there. This guy has been visiting Tylor Swift's

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Speaker 1: home a shocking thirty times in the last two months.

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Speaker 1: There are photos of him at the window, peering in

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Speaker 1: scoldking around her home, standing outside with flowers. He has

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Speaker 1: a criminal history. He won't go away. As a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, he just got arrested for stalking her and

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Speaker 1: within a couple of hours was back at her place

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Speaker 1: stalking her. What will they not do anything until she's

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Speaker 1: physically attacked, maimed or worse? What do you think this

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Speaker 1: guy has on his mind? Nothing good? I can tell

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Speaker 1: you that much. I mean, see Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: And on serious exem one eleven. And it's not just

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Speaker 1: about Taylor Swift. Do you know how many domestic homicides

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Speaker 1: I have prosecuted, much less the number of them I

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Speaker 1: have investigated? How many calls I took on the Battered

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Speaker 1: Women's hotline at night for nearly ten years. I can't

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Speaker 1: even count them all? What will authorities just not be

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Speaker 1: happy until she's dead and then everybody will go, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: we should have done something about it. This is so awful,

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Speaker 1: but it does that where this have to end again?

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. First of all, take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friend Sidney Sumner.

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Speaker 2: David Crowe is fixated on Taylor Swift. He has been

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Speaker 2: arrested three times in five days at our near Swift,

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Speaker 2: New York apartment. This latest arrest comes just two hours

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Speaker 2: after he was in court over his last arrest for

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Speaker 2: stalking her home. Law enforcement sounding the alarm, telling TMZ

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Speaker 2: that Crow is quote aware of what he's doing and

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Speaker 2: he's articulate. He is fixated on her and cannot keep

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Speaker 2: away from where she lives. We are doing all we

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Speaker 2: can to protect her.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this woman, due to her job, really can't disappear.

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Speaker 1: This guy knows where she is. He knows where she lives.

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Speaker 1: The only way to protect her is to put him

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Speaker 1: behind bars and leave him there, But instead he keeps

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Speaker 1: getting out of the revolving door that they call the

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Speaker 1: local jail to go right back to her place like

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Speaker 1: a homing pigeon, to wait for her to do what

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Speaker 1: when she shows up? Doctor Angela Arnold joining me renown

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Speaker 1: psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD

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Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Angie. What does that mean when someone

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Speaker 1: is quote fixated on another?

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Speaker 3: Nancy? Often most times when people become fixated or someone

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Speaker 3: else they've got in their mind, there are several different

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Speaker 3: reasons for them to become fixated. At the bottom of

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Speaker 3: it all is a sense of control, okay, and someone

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Speaker 3: can become fixated with someone in order to because they

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Speaker 3: feel rejected by that person. They are seeking intimacy from

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Speaker 3: that person, they're resentful of a breakup in a relationship,

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Speaker 3: and last but not least, because they're a predator, because

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Speaker 3: they're seeking power and control over that person.

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Speaker 1: This is not the first time a celebrity has been stalked,

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Speaker 1: and just think about it. If a celebrity like Taylor

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Speaker 1: Swift can't stop a stalker, what about the rest of

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Speaker 1: us regular people, mere mortals? What chance do we have

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Speaker 1: if Taylor Swift can't stop her stalker? Well, what about Madonna?

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Speaker 1: She and stop one of her many many stalkers. Either

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Speaker 1: take a listen to Dave matt Crime Online.

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Speaker 4: Thirteen Robert Dewey Hoskins was dangerous, highly psychotic. According to police,

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Speaker 4: he had become fascinated with Madonna and told her assistant

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Speaker 4: that he would either marry Madonna or slash her throat

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Speaker 4: from ear to ear. In nineteen ninety five, Hoskins climbed

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Speaker 4: the fence and Madonna's twenty five thousand square foot Hollywood

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Speaker 4: Hills estate and was shot by her security guards. Madonna

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Speaker 4: wasn't home at the time, but was frightened. Nonetheless, Hoskins

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Speaker 4: was convicted of threatening to kill Madonna and was sentenced

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Speaker 4: to ten years in prison.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it true, doctor Angela Arnold, that the imagined relationship

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Speaker 1: that a stalker has with his target, his love object

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Speaker 1: victim can evaporate and turn angry and ugly just as

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Speaker 1: quickly as they believe they fell in love.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and Nancy. Therein lies the danger Okay, so right now,

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Speaker 3: he's just digging through dumpster trying to gather something that

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Speaker 3: might smell like her or look like her, but it

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Speaker 3: can quickly devolve into something that becomes extremely dangerous for

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Speaker 3: the person who is being stalkeed.

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Speaker 1: He's not just digging around trying to get Taylor Swift mementos.

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Speaker 1: He's looking into her windows. He's trying to break in.

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Speaker 1: He's standing around trying to give her flowers. He won't

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Speaker 1: go away. He's gone to jail multiple times. The minute

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Speaker 1: he gets out, he goes straight back to her place. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what about TTOK Sensation, Ava Missouri? Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: Ava herself and Our Cut twenty nine and Dave matt

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Speaker 1: In thirty.

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Speaker 5: Hey guys, I don't really know how to start this,

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Speaker 5: so we're just going to go along with this one.

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Speaker 5: This is my first blog or YouTube video. Give me

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Speaker 5: like all ideas in the commons. Yeah, I'm kind of

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Speaker 5: taking along with the journey.

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Speaker 4: In early two thousand, Eva notices a follower trying to

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Speaker 4: get her attention, commenting on her TikTok videos and reaching

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Speaker 4: out to her through social media apps, asking for photos,

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Speaker 4: even paying kids she thought were friends for information about her,

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Speaker 4: so Ava reaches out and tells him to stop going

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Speaker 4: through other people. If he wants pictures, he can buy

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Speaker 4: them directly from her. She didn't realize she just connected

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Speaker 4: with a craze stalker who ended up coming to her house,

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Speaker 4: blew open the front door with a shotgun, and Ava's dad,

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Speaker 4: who is a retired police officer, ended up having to

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Speaker 4: shoot the man dead.

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Speaker 1: Just thinking about what this family goes through. A seeming

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Speaker 1: admirer who keeps showing up finally breaks in to get

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Speaker 1: to her and her dad has to shoot him dead.

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Speaker 1: That's not, of course, the first fatality linked to a

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Speaker 1: celebrity stalker. The first time this phenomena rushed to the

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Speaker 1: forefront was with the star of My Sister Sam Rebecca Schaeffer. Listen.

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Speaker 4: Rebecca Schaeffer was on his rocket ship to start him.

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Speaker 4: In the eighties, she was on a hit TV show

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Speaker 4: called My Sister Sam. She was getting auditions for big

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Speaker 4: Hollywood movies, but she was still down to earth enough

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Speaker 4: that she answered her own fan mail. Robert Bardow was

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Speaker 4: a mentally ill young man from Arizona who became obsessed

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Speaker 4: with Shaeffer. He becomes enraged when he sees her acting

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Speaker 4: in a love scene, so with laser focus he finds

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Speaker 4: her home address and shows up at her door. Shaffer

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Speaker 4: is expecting a script for Godfather III, the audition she's

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Speaker 4: been dreaming about. Instead of the script, it's Robert Bardow.

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Speaker 4: He got her address through the DMV and instead of

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Speaker 4: getting a dreamscript Mentali Old Bardo shoots the starlet dead.

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Speaker 1: Joining me. In addition to Nicole parton Crime Online dot

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Speaker 1: commodist Get Reporter, and as you heard earlier, doctor Angela Arnold,

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Speaker 1: Troy Slayton is joining US high profile defense attorney out

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Speaker 1: of la At Slayton lawyers jump in, Troy Slayton, I

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Speaker 1: can't wait to hear what you're about to say.

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Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, Unfortunately, New York has a very slow progressive

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Speaker 6: system with regard to stalking and harassment, so the law

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Speaker 6: is inadequate in New York to protect celebrities like Taylor

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Speaker 6: Swift from crazed fans or people who become obsessed with her.

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Speaker 6: So when he's first arrested for just being around outside

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Speaker 6: of her place, of course, he gets led out because

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Speaker 6: that crime, fourth degree stalking, doesn't even allow for bail,

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Speaker 6: so he needs to be arrested again and again, and

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Speaker 6: it wasn't until he violated an order of protection that

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Speaker 6: means an order from the court from the judge to

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Speaker 6: stay away from the location that he was arrested for contempt.

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Speaker 6: And judges don't like it when you violate their orders.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what you're saying. Oh the blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. The law says this, and the law

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Speaker 1: says that. Will it take another incident like this? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our cut ten.

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Speaker 4: John Lennon became a legend as part of the Beatles,

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Speaker 4: but a five year hiatus from recording any music left

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Speaker 4: him without a record contract in the fall of nineteen

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Speaker 4: eighty when he recorded his comeback album, Double Fantasy. The

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Speaker 4: album was warmly received by fans and critics alike, but

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Speaker 4: the return of the legend was short lived. On December eighth,

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Speaker 4: nineteen eighty, Beatle fan Mark David Chapman was standing outside

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Speaker 4: the Dakota Hotel on the Upper West Side as John

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Speaker 4: Lennon returned home from the recording studio with Yoko Ono.

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Speaker 4: Without warning, Mark David Chapman opened fired, sending five holow

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Speaker 4: point bullets into the back of John Lennon ending his life.

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Speaker 1: Paul zeit with me, a former police commander specializing in

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Speaker 1: domestic violence and the stalking unit, the author of Listen

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Speaker 1: to this stop him from killing them? Paul Zyke, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. And just like you heard,

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Speaker 1: and yes, he's a high profile defense attorney. Yes he's

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Speaker 1: a veteran trial lawyer. He referred to the perpetrator against

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Speaker 1: Taylor Swift just standing around. Well, that is what Chapman

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Speaker 1: was doing. He was just standing around until he pulled

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Speaker 1: a gun and then pulled a trigger.

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Speaker 7: Well, the unfortunate reality is that law enforcements really not

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Speaker 7: prepared nationally. I when I go around and teach on

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Speaker 7: my book, I find this. I find that it's viewed

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Speaker 7: as intense harassment. The reality is that the vast majority

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Speaker 7: of females that are murdered are killed by the man

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Speaker 7: who's stalking them. And that alone requires twenty four hour surveillance.

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Speaker 7: Law enforcement's got to be on this guy twenty four

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Speaker 7: to seven and if the violation and restraining order is

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Speaker 7: the best thing they can do, every time they see

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Speaker 7: him there, they arrest him repeatedly until he's kept that's it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've represented so many stalking victims, and in

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Speaker 1: the majority of them there is physical violence. Ultimately, there

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Speaker 1: is physical violence. Joining me right now, a real exce

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Speaker 1: part in this field. Renee Williams, Executive Director, National Center

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Speaker 1: for Victims of Crime, Renee, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 8: Wighan Well, I think that you said it best when

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Speaker 8: you are addressing the laws. Look, you can put every

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Speaker 8: law in place, and saying that New York is lacking

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Speaker 8: is just patently falls across the state. We're lacking in

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Speaker 8: laws for stockings. But it's not just putting it into laws.

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Speaker 8: It is the enforcement of those laws, and it is

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Speaker 8: the action of protecting the victims. Taylor Swift can't seem

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Speaker 8: to be protected from this man. Can you imagine what

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Speaker 8: it is like for an everyday person who does not

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Speaker 8: have her resources and the attention that is constantly on

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Speaker 8: her to protect her. The everyday person that doesn't have

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Speaker 8: those things, who's being stocked and when they go to

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Speaker 8: the police, they're turned away.

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Speaker 6: So what do they do?

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Speaker 1: What do they do? Just put up with it, put

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Speaker 1: up with fear every single day. Afraid to get out

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Speaker 1: of your car, afraid to walk in your or what

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Speaker 1: do they do? Afraid you're gonna look out and see

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Speaker 1: this guy, David Crow, thirty three years all staring at

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Speaker 1: you through the window.

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Speaker 8: That's exactly right. I have a very good friend who

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Speaker 8: was stalked in the state of Pennsylvania. And it wasn't

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Speaker 8: by and the man wasn't doing anything that would be

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Speaker 8: illegal necessarily, but he was clearly stalking her. And she

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Speaker 8: had to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. And she's

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Speaker 8: an attorney, and she's a very good attorney, and she

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Speaker 8: was still at her wits end as well. She went

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Speaker 8: to the police. There was nothing they could do because

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Speaker 8: there weren't laws to back them up, and they didn't

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Speaker 8: have the expertise.

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Speaker 1: This is reminding me not only of all the women,

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Speaker 1: and yes, it's usually women that are the victims that

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Speaker 1: are stalked, just relentlessly, typically ending in violence. You may

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Speaker 1: know this woman I spoke with, You may know her

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Speaker 1: from being on TV. She's a TV star. She's started

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Speaker 1: all my children. But with all of her beauty and

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Speaker 1: all of her accomplishments, she was not, I mean to

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Speaker 1: a stalker. Eva LaRue.

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Speaker 9: This whole thing started in two thousand and seven when

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Speaker 9: I got the very first letter but you're absolutely right,

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Speaker 9: Like the only job that we have as parents is

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Speaker 9: to keep our children safe. And when that is taken

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Speaker 9: away from you by all counts and every day, you

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Speaker 9: don't know if you can keep your only child, say

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Speaker 9: you feel like you've completely, you completely, completely failed. It's

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Speaker 9: it's one thing when the stalking threats are coming to

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Speaker 9: you that has its own terroristic fear that comes with it,

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Speaker 9: you know, every every day, But when it's aimed at

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Speaker 9: your daughter, your baby girl, you know, because it's all

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Speaker 9: started happening when she's five, now she's.

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Speaker 1: Twenty, they stalk her, not only threatened harm to her horrible, horrible,

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Speaker 1: despicable crimes on her, but to her little girl as well.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to evil us speaking to me cut sixteen.

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Speaker 9: You know, right out of the gate they were they

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Speaker 9: were really horrifyingly deviant and evil, I mean, and they

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Speaker 9: would even talk about Satanic rituals and you know, marrying

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Speaker 9: us both in and holding us the hostage is sex

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Speaker 9: slaves and impregnating my daughter and then and then in

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Speaker 9: literally nightmares detail.

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Speaker 6: Talk about how he was going.

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Speaker 9: To you know, continually rape and then disembowel and dismember

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Speaker 9: my daughter in front of me and then do the

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Speaker 9: same to me.

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Speaker 6: So it just it would, and it seemed to always be.

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Speaker 1: Some variation on the thing, right, and dis bowel her

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Speaker 1: daughter who's jumping.

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Speaker 7: Is this you, Paul, it's Paul, yes, And you know

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Speaker 7: that's that's a good point. My thirty years of being

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Speaker 7: a cop and ten years exclusively dedicated to mitigating stalkers,

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Speaker 7: I can tell you that it's simply a matter of

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Speaker 7: taking their word. When somebody says I'm going to do that,

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Speaker 7: I'm going to kill you all the things that we

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Speaker 7: just heard, we need to just take it seriously, take

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Speaker 7: them at their word, and mitigate accordingly. We don't need

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Speaker 7: to wait for the actions. They've thought about it, they've

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Speaker 7: said it. We need to stop them before they do it.

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Speaker 7: But systemically, that is what we fail to do repeatedly,

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Speaker 7: and it's sickening.

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Speaker 1: You know. What I don't get is the fact that

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Speaker 1: we can this is a cliche, put people on the moon.

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Speaker 1: We can come up with all sorts of amazing developments digitally,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of mechanical triumphs, but we can't control a stalker.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some people would argue doctor Angela are all

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Speaker 1: the only way to stop a stalker is to just

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Speaker 1: kill him. I guess you saw a fatal attraction ly

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Speaker 1: Glenn close.

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Speaker 3: Right, definitely several times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she didn't stop stalking him until he was living

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Speaker 1: in fear. His wife was living in fear, his family

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Speaker 1: was in fear. She didn't stop until she was dead.

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Speaker 3: Well, because Nancy, think about something. Stalkers aren't going to

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Speaker 3: get better. They're not going to all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: wake up one day and say I don't think I'm

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Speaker 3: going to stalk this person anymore. They're stalking the person

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Speaker 3: for a purpose, and they're getting some sort of you

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Speaker 3: know I said before the show, the stalker man that's

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Speaker 3: doing this to her. Right now, he's going to listen.

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Speaker 8: To this show.

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Speaker 3: He's loving the attention he's getting.

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Speaker 1: Why what does that mean?

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Speaker 3: He's getting something out of the attention. That's why he

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Speaker 3: keeps going back for more. Okay, someone is noticing him,

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Speaker 3: and in his mind this this is working for him. Okay,

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Speaker 3: because if he's getting noticed public, then that must mean

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Speaker 3: that Taylor Swift is saying something about it. So in

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Speaker 3: his mind, he's getting attention from Taylor Swift, and that's

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Speaker 3: what he wanted.

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Speaker 9: To I thought immediately was a real threat. I had

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Speaker 9: no idea where he was, where the letter was coming from.

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Speaker 9: I didn't know if he lived down the street. I

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Speaker 9: didn't know if he was already following me. I didn't

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Speaker 9: know if he I didn't know what he knew about me,

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Speaker 9: like where I worked, where she went to school. We

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Speaker 9: didn't know anything, and that was where the greatest fear was.

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Speaker 9: If we were constantly looking over our shoulder. We didn't

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Speaker 9: know if he was going to show up on the

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Speaker 9: doorstep at any moment.

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace to you, Nicole Parton joining

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Speaker 1: US Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. What do we

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Speaker 1: know so far? I know this guy claims he's from Seattle,

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Speaker 1: but has no plans to go back home. He knows

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Speaker 1: enough to lie to police.

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Speaker 10: What more, Yeah, he was formerly a college student in Seattle,

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Speaker 10: but we know that since November he has been there

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Speaker 10: in Tribeca, not just stalking Taylor Swift, but harassing her neighbors.

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Speaker 10: One neighbor said she fears for her life. She can't

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Speaker 10: even leave the home because this guy is pacing the doorsteps, chainsmoking.

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Speaker 10: Several nights, he slept on the doorsteps in front of

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Speaker 10: their town homes. There we know that he was trying

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Speaker 10: to jiggle the doorknob and actually get in to Taylor

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Speaker 10: Swift's home, So he's stalking her. But also at this

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Speaker 10: point neighbors are afraid of him. They step outside, begins

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Speaker 10: to question them. Whereas Taylor, when is she coming back?

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Speaker 10: On and on and on. Obviously this guy is serious

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Speaker 10: about what he's trying to do, and I agree with

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Speaker 10: what's been said. He keeps coming back because the attention

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Speaker 10: is working. This latest incident where he's in the dumpster.

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Speaker 10: He was mumbling later to authorities and to reporters, I

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Speaker 10: was just looking for my pants as to somehow imply

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Speaker 10: that he left his pants at Taylor swift home.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm sure that would be needs to Taylor Swift

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Speaker 1: and her boyfriend, the football player. Guys, take a listen

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Speaker 1: to Sidney Sumner and our cut three.

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Speaker 2: David Crowe is no longer some anonymous fan to people

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Speaker 2: in Taylor Swift's neighborhood. Someone realized it was Crowe who

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Speaker 2: was back sitting near the building on the loading dog

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Speaker 2: and called nine one one. Police arrived and arrested Crow

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Speaker 2: on a criminal contempt charge due to the fact and

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Speaker 2: order of protection had just been issued during his arraignment

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Speaker 2: on two counts of harassment and two counts of stalking.

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Speaker 1: So Nicole parton. He just gets out on two counts

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Speaker 1: of harassment and stalking, four counts in all, and goes

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Speaker 1: straight back to her place.

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Speaker 10: Yes, within hours, within hours of walking out of court,

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Speaker 10: he goes and he's seen smoking outside McDonald's a few

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Speaker 10: blocks away. Next thing we know, he makes his way

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Speaker 10: down to her home again, rummaging through things, getting blankets

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Speaker 10: out of that dumpster, and then sitting there on a

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Speaker 10: loading dock. And that's when neighbors. One neighbor specifically says,

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Speaker 10: my heart dropped. I was afraid for my life, and

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Speaker 10: so I called authorities back to let him know this

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Speaker 10: man came right back down here and more.

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Speaker 4: Listen when police get a nine to one one call

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Speaker 4: from Taylor Swift's building about her stalker. Returning, police find

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Speaker 4: David Crowe, who tells them he is from Seattle and

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Speaker 4: is on his way to take a flight home. DMZ

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Speaker 4: reports Crow is from Seattle, but police find no evidence

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Speaker 4: that Crow has any plans for a trip home.

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Speaker 2: David Crowe has been in New York for months The

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Speaker 2: New York Post reports prosecutors revealed that Crow had stalked

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Speaker 2: out Taylor Swift's townhouse thirty times in the past two months.

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Speaker 2: What makes things a little more scary is that Swift

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Speaker 2: is actually in town this week and has been seen

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Speaker 2: out with Britney Mahomes and Kara de Levine. No confirmation

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Speaker 2: as Swift was home this time when Crow was arrested.

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Speaker 1: Did you catch that Troy Slayton, Troy Slayton, high profile

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Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney joining us out of la He knew

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Speaker 1: enough to lie to police that he was headed back

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Speaker 1: home to Seattle.

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Speaker 6: Well that's not even the important part of the analysis, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Well maybe not to you, but it's important to me

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Speaker 1: that he's not crazy, he's not mainly disturbed, he's not homeless.

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Speaker 1: He knows enough to go back to her place wait

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Speaker 1: and then when found by police, lie to them to

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Speaker 1: get out of it.

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Speaker 6: Even if he goes back to Seattle, he's still going

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Speaker 6: to have to come back to New York as ordered

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Speaker 6: by the court, to handle his criminal matters. And this

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Speaker 6: is a very important lesson for all the listeners. If

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Speaker 6: somebody is engaging in a course of harassment, a course

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Speaker 6: of conduct that would make you reasonably fear for your safety,

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Speaker 6: you have to go in and get a civil order

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Speaker 6: of protection. So that way, if the person comes within

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Speaker 6: the protected zone around you, typically one hundred yards, then

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Speaker 6: that person can be picked up by police, even for

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Speaker 6: doing something as innocuous as sitting on the loading dock.

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Speaker 7: I understand where you're go ahead, Paul, Yeah, Nan to

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Speaker 7: understand what you're trying to say, and that is the

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Speaker 7: guy's just not deranged. He's methodical, he knows what he's doing.

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Speaker 7: He's evil, and he's manipulus. He knows exactly what to

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Speaker 7: tell those cops to get them to go away, and

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Speaker 7: just think that he's harmless. And that is that is

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Speaker 7: the absolute scariest part of stalking offenders is they are

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Speaker 7: the most diabolical group their way, criminalities on one side,

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Speaker 7: evils on the other, and they've taken several steps towards evil.

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Speaker 1: You know one thing that struck me, Renee Williams, when

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Speaker 1: I was listening and speaking with Evil Aru the TV star,

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Speaker 1: is that she said she never knew when just hanging

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Speaker 1: around her place was going to turn into violence.

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Speaker 8: That's exactly right, and one of the elements of stalking

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Speaker 8: and spears, and I think for all victims. Well, let's

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Speaker 8: go back actually to all of the media coverage of

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Speaker 8: Taylor Swift. We have stripped this woman of her privacy

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Speaker 8: and dignity. And I'm looking at the New York Daily

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Speaker 8: News article on this. They posted a photo of her

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Speaker 8: home and the cross street of her address. So now

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Speaker 8: if anybody didn't know where she lived, they do now

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Speaker 8: and they can stock her, so we can. We have

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Speaker 8: stripped this woman of her privacy, like we stripped many

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Speaker 8: celebrities of their privacy, and then we expect them to

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Speaker 8: not have fear, and we say, well, they've put themselves

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Speaker 8: in the public spotlight, they should expect this, But that's

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Speaker 8: fundamentally wrong. We're really stripping them of their dignity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very curious. If Taylor Swift or Madonna can't really

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Speaker 1: stop stalk her, where does that leave the rest of us?

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Speaker 1: Isn't it true to you and call parton that he's

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Speaker 1: actually tried to get into her home.

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Speaker 2: He did.

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Speaker 10: That was the first incident that happened on Saturday. He

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Speaker 10: was actually tugging at the door twist, seeing the door knob,

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Speaker 10: trying to get in to her apartment.

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Speaker 1: Guys, you just heard it mentioned that her cross streets

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Speaker 1: in New York were published in a picture, so everybody

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Speaker 1: knows where she lives. Same thing happened to Eva Listen.

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Speaker 9: Because we had, you know, we had a gate gate

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Speaker 9: and hedge issue, and I had to I was at

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Speaker 9: the city and getting a variant for these things, and

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Speaker 9: the city leaked my address on the online camp you know,

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Speaker 9: on their online court camera. They said my address on

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Speaker 9: the online court camera, and immediately it was out.

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Speaker 1: And then even the.

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Speaker 9: News cameras came like a couple of days later, saying

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Speaker 9: do you see that you're of a you know, you're

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Speaker 9: trying to get a variance, and I was like, how

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Speaker 9: is that news?

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Speaker 7: But you all just found.

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Speaker 9: My address and within about a week the letters started

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Speaker 9: coming directly.

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Speaker 6: To my house.

434
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: So her stalker found her extremely deterred. Rmond Time Stories

435
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace choice late not to give away any

436
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: information on your clients that you have represented. But once

437
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: these obsessive males get fixated on a target, they are tenacious.

438
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: They will not stop.

439
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 6: That's true. Nancy, and I even had a very personal

440
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 6: experience back in the mid eighties. I was a guest

441
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 6: star on my Sister Sam with Rebecca Schaeffer, who was

442
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 6: killed just two years later by a stalker, and helped

443
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 6: prompt the legislation that was anti stalking law that was

444
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 6: a landmark in California. But going back to your question,

445
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 6: I've represented many people who were accused of stalking harassment,

446
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 6: and the law is in many jurisdictions inadequate and many

447
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 6: times because we live in such a free society, because

448
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 6: it's not illegal to go around to go about.

449
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: Well, when you say go around and go about, what

450
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: about trying to get into her home, testing the doors,

451
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: trying to get in, looking in the windows. Isn't that

452
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: peeping tom or attempted burglary?

453
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 6: That's attempted burgs That would be attempted burglar.

454
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: Why isn't he charged with that? Is he the goal

455
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 1: of pardon? Is he charged with peeping tom? Is he

456
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: charged with a tempted burglary? Is not? Well? He should be?

457
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: What about that Troy Slayton.

458
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 6: He should be? I agree, But what evidence do we

459
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 6: have of that? Eyewitnesses well, and an eyewitness account doesn't

460
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 6: sound like he's being charged with that. And all of

461
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 6: the media accounts right now are focused on the harassment

462
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 6: and stocking charges.

463
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: I mean, this is Time Magazines Person of the Year,

464
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: and the law seems powerless to stop a stalker that

465
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: at any moment could erupt into violence. It's not her

466
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: only stalker. She's got a lot more to contend with.

467
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we're on the outside looking in and we think, oh,

468
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: what a glamorous life, your beautiful clothes, your wonderful career,

469
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: you're awesome boyfriend. But this woman has multiple stalkers. Listen.

470
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 11: Taylor Swift has a history of fans taking things too far.

471
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 11: A Florida man broke into Swift's home in New York

472
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 11: City in twenty eighteen. He was sentenced to jail after

473
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 11: pleading guilty to criminal contempt and attempted burglary. That was

474
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 11: followed up in twenty nineteen by an Iowa man who

475
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 11: said he just wanted to meet the singer. He was

476
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 11: arrested near her beachfront mansion carrying a crowbar and lock picks.

477
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 11: A few months after that experience, a man from New

478
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 11: Jersey was caught inside her home.

479
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: Police said a woman who had been.

480
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: Worn to stay away from Taylor Swift's home in Rhode

481
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,479
Speaker 2: Island was arrested outside the beach front property. WFSB reports

482
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: the woman was discovered in front of the home despite

483
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: previous warnings to stay away, and subsequently arrested.

484
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: Paul Zike, did you just hear the one guy was

485
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: arrested in her home waiting for her to walk in

486
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: and do what? Recite poetry? Hell no, he was going

487
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: to either rape her or murder her or both.

488
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 7: Absolutely, And that's the progression. It starts with a lot

489
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 7: of reports, it starts with following, it starts with physical surveillance,

490
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 7: and then it starts with them standing over you while

491
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 7: you're in bed sleeping one fateful evening. The reality is,

492
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 7: if law enforcement had rolling surveillance on this guy twenty

493
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 7: four to seven, they'd see him turning the doorknob, they'd

494
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 7: see the other things that he's doing. Is he going

495
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 7: to places and buying rope? Is he going to gunshops?

496
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 7: Where did he go when he is not stalking her?

497
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 7: That could kind of be a mandate. That's kind of ridiculous.

498
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 7: No police department has the resources to put twenty four

499
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 7: hour surveillance on every alleged stalker.

500
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not saying they should. I'm saying they should

501
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: put him in jail and leave him there.

502
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 7: And I didn't say they should do it to every stalker,

503
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 7: but use threat assessment to figure out those stalkers that

504
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 7: are most likely to kill. And I have to say,

505
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 7: in ten years of actually doing this and mitigating over

506
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 7: eighteen hundred and fifty stalkers, that's exactly what you need.

507
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 7: You need surveillance and if it takes twenty four to

508
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 7: seven to save a life, you better find the money

509
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 7: to do it. There's no excuse, guys.

510
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: It escalates. I've seen it a million times. It starts

511
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: off with maybe love letters or flowers and surprise visits.

512
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: Then it develops into anger when the female does not

513
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: respond the way the stalker wants. I mean, here's a

514
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: good example. Terse 's Saldonna. You'll remember her. She's a

515
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: famous actress and starn and the commission listen.

516
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 4: Teresa Saldona's career had just taken off with the starmaking

517
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 4: part in Martin Scorsese's Raging Bull. Walking outside her West

518
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 4: Hollywood apartment, she was approached by Kraze stalker Arthur Jackson.

519
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 4: Jackson asked Saldona if she was the famous actress she

520
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: appeared to be. When she said yes, Jackson attack stabbing

521
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 4: her ten times with a hunting knife. A passing delivery

522
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 4: truck driver fought off her attacker and held him until

523
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 4: cops arrived. Saldana spent three months in the hospital recovering

524
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 4: from her injuries. Saldana survived the attack to win a

525
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 4: Golden Glove for her work on the Commission in the nineties,

526
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 4: and was an activist for the rest of her life.

527
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 4: Arthur Jackson kept a diary where he had written the

528
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 4: day of the attack, he was on a divine mission

529
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 4: to bring Saldona to eternity. Jackson was sentenced to fourteen

530
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: years in prison for the attack on Saldana.

531
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: Doctor Angie Arnold take her with him to eternity.

532
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, Nancy, these people don't necessarily start off delusional,

533
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: but when this is all that they're doing, So imagine

534
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 3: this guy that's stalking Taylor Swift right now, Nancy. He's

535
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 3: not going to a job and then stalking Taylor Swift.

536
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 3: This is taking up every minute of his day, it appears,

537
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: and so he can become delusional and have thoughts that

538
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: are not true about Taylor Swift. And so somehow he

539
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 3: may start to believe if I can't have her no

540
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: one can. And as I said previously, these feelings will intensify.

541
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: He's not going to his psychiatrist and telling his psychiatrist

542
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 3: whose delusional thoughts about Taylor Swift. He's doing all of

543
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 3: this inside of his own.

544
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: Head, you know, Doctor Angie, speaking of whole fantasy life.

545
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: This guy doesn't see her as Taylor Swift and him

546
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: as a freaky stalker. He sees her as his soulmate,

547
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: and they're going to be together through all eternity. And

548
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: it reminds me of another star. I first started her

549
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: on The Voice, but she went on A star of movies,

550
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: Christina Grimy. Listen.

551
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 4: Christina Grimy began singing covers of popular songs on her

552
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 4: YouTube channel and reached over four million fans. She finished

553
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 4: third on the TV show The Voice and had just

554
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 4: appeared in her first motion picture, The match Breaker. Christina

555
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 4: Grimy attracted the attention of Kevin Loible. Loeubel was infatuated

556
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 4: with Grimy and believed the pair would be together and

557
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 4: get married until he was shown a picture of the

558
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 4: singer with another man. Loubel became enraged and as Christina

559
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 4: Grimmy was signing autographs after a concert in Orlando, Florida.

560
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 4: A twenty seven year old Loibel approached Grimmy. She reached

561
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 4: out to give him a hug. He pulled his glock

562
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 4: and shot her three times. Grimmy's brother jumped on Lobel,

563
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 4: but he broke free, backed against the wall, and shot

564
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 4: himself to death. Christina Grimmy was just twenty two years old.

565
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: I'm also wondering what can further set this guy off?

566
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: We all, I mean, unless you've been living under a

567
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 1: rock in a cave on the other side of the world,

568
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: you know that Taylor Swift is dating a wildly successful

569
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: football player, Travis Kelcey. Now, what is he going to do?

570
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: The stalker when he is made aware that Taylor Swift

571
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: is in a love relationship with this successful, handsome football player.

572
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: What's going to happen in his mind? What about it,

573
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: Doctor Angie?

574
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 3: Well, in his mind, Nancy, I imagine he may want

575
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: to kill both of them. Nancy, this story is so

576
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: scary and it is fraught with so much danger that

577
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 3: I truly don't believe most people understand the level of

578
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 3: danger that she's in right now.

579
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 7: I agree with that Well is that Zeke, Yes, it is,

580
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 7: And I totally agree with that it's literally like everyone

581
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 7: is standing around until she's murdered, and then the next

582
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 7: time it happens, we'll all do the same thing again.

583
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 7: And when I say we all the law enforcement community,

584
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 7: they're not trained. Law cops are just not trained for this.

585
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 7: They're not trained for what you might do, what you

586
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 7: think you'll do. They're trained to statutorily, you know, enforced laws.

587
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 7: And that's where advanced training on this topic needs to

588
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 7: be inactive.

589
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: I don't know that we have time for the New

590
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 1: York Assembly up an Albany to move their ear ends

591
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: and do something. What could happen right now? And anybody

592
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: on the panel, if you disagree, jump in and give

593
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: me a better idea. He could be and dieted for

594
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: a felony like attempted burglary. Of course, peeping Tom that's

595
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: not a felony. But is that a way to put

596
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: him behind bars? We all know that in the recent hours,

597
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift AI artificial intelligence porn has emerged. Somebody has

598
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: taken Taylor Swift's likeness and created about a fake Taylor

599
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: Swift engaging in porn. Another thing for her to think about.

600
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering. Renee Williams. You have so much

601
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 1: experience dealing with stalkers and prosecuting them. If this guy,

602
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: David Crow were too see that, it could be so

603
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: incendiary that he may react.

604
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 8: It can be devastating, and even without him seeing it,

605
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 8: it's devastating to her. And there's a lot of fury

606
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 8: over that.

607
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 7: Right now.

608
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 8: I wish that the fury was there for the children

609
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 8: that AI bots are being made of. You know, this

610
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 8: is a problem that we are fully aware of in

611
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 8: the crime victims field, and it's fighting an uphill battle.

612
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 8: There are a handful of states that have made it

613
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 8: illegal to use AI in pornography, but it still happens, obviously,

614
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 8: and it's out there.

615
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a deep fake porn website and I

616
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: hope that she sues them. But you know what they'll do.

617
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: I learned this working at the Federal Trade Commission. They'll

618
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: just close down under that name and pop up. It's like,

619
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: why come on, They'll pop up under another name. But yes,

620
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: I agree with you completely, But right now, Troy Slayton,

621
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: you never know what is going to set a stalker off.

622
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: I mean, is it going to be a picture of

623
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift on the front page of the New York

624
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: Post with her boyfriend Travis Kelcey. Is he going to

625
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: see that and go kill her? Is he going to

626
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: think that Taylor Swift somehow is in porn which is

627
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: actually created by some AI porn site. I don't know

628
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: what could push this guy over the edge and make

629
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: him retaliate against her. He obviously thinks they have a relationship.

630
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 6: By definition, you can't predict crazy, and the photos of

631
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 6: this guy definitely have crazy eyes.

632
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: Oh wait, you the jurisdictor and the lawyer, you're now

633
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: diagnosing him is crazy because of a picture you saw. Okay, look,

634
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: he knew enough to light a cops. He knows enough

635
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: to get back to her place. He knows exactly what's

636
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: going on and what he's doing. He's not crazy. He's

637
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: a stalker.

638
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 6: But now all eyes are on him, and Taylor Swift

639
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 6: has the resources to protect herself. I'm not worried about

640
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 6: her safety.

641
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: That's what John Lennon thought, and my sister Sam and

642
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: Evil LaRue, That's what they all thought. Madonna thought that

643
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: they had to shoot her stalker down, shoot him to

644
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: make him leave her alone. He went to jail for

645
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: ten years. She's probably out by now, or about to

646
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: get out to go stalk her again. So we think,

647
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: oh wow, she's famous, she's got all these resources. You know,

648
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: those stars weren't able to stop their stalker. The only

649
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Speaker 1: way the stalker is going to be stopped is to

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Speaker 1: either kill him or put him behind bars and keep

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Speaker 1: him there. Are you listening New York, Nancy.

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Speaker 11: We've gotten word that David Crowe is back behind bars

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00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 11: for violating his court order to stay away from Swift's

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Speaker 11: Tribeca townhouse. According to prosecutors, Crowe's actions made it clear

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Speaker 11: he was unable to obey a court order. Crowe was

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Speaker 11: arraigned on a charge of second degree criminal contempt. He

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Speaker 11: has also been ordered to undergo a psychiatric exam that

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Speaker 11: was requested by his defense lawyer. Crowe was remanded to

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Speaker 11: Rikers Island.

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Speaker 1: We wait as just as un foals. Goodbye friend,