Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast, a
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Speaker 1: for Shades of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain.
Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
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Speaker 2: We would like to encourage you to do your own
Speaker 2: research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi, everybody,
Speaker 2: Sandra here. I'm on a short break this week, so
Speaker 2: please enjoy this best of episode. Hi. I'm Sandra Champlain.
Speaker 2: For over twenty five years, I've been on a journey
Speaker 2: to prove the existence of life after death. On each episode,
Speaker 2: we'll discuss the reasons we now know that our loved
Speaker 2: ones have survived physical debt and so will we. Welcome
Speaker 2: to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm very excited today. I'm
Speaker 2: excited to share our guest. I'm excited that there's a
Speaker 2: new way to communicate with our loved ones. Today you'll
Speaker 2: meet doctor Matthew McKay who's a psychology professor in Berkeley, California,
Speaker 2: who never would have believed in the world of the
Speaker 2: afterlife and communication had his own adult son not been
Speaker 2: taken from him. Doctor McKay has authored or co authored
Speaker 2: more than twenty five psychology, self hell and therapist texts
Speaker 2: and books specializing in anxiety and depression. And in this
Speaker 2: episode today you'll hear his story and what he does
Speaker 2: to connect with his son, Jordan. Here's doctor Matthew McKay.
Speaker 3: I'm glad to be with you, Sandra. So it's more
Speaker 3: than fifteen years now since Jordan died. He was on
Speaker 3: his way home from work on his bicycle and men
Speaker 3: attacked him, probably to try to steal a bike. Eventually,
Speaker 3: after a tremendous physical battle, they shot him and he
Speaker 3: died on the street. As anyone can imagine, that's the
Speaker 3: worst thing that happened, is losing your child at that
Speaker 3: moment or very shortly afterwards. I think that the two
Speaker 3: things that mattered most to me, and I think this
Speaker 3: may be true for a lot of appearance or anyone
Speaker 3: who loses a loved one, does that soul still exist
Speaker 3: and are they okay? Are they in a place where
Speaker 3: they feel good? And I was just consumed with that question,
Speaker 3: and so I did start looking for Jordan, started seeking
Speaker 3: him in different ways. In we went to mediums and
Speaker 3: got some sense of something he was saying through them.
Speaker 3: And yet while there was some sense of him, some
Speaker 3: reassurance he might still exist, it wasn't anything that really
Speaker 3: warmed our hearts, and so we began looking in other ways.
Speaker 3: We sought out Alan Botkin, who discovered accidentally something he
Speaker 3: calls and do stuff after death communication went to Chicago.
Speaker 3: It's a technique that comes from EMDR. I moved in
Speaker 3: to sensitization through processing, which is something that we used
Speaker 3: to help treat trauma. I've used it with hundreds of
Speaker 3: clients over the years, but in this case, we were
Speaker 3: going to see him and he was going to use
Speaker 3: his variation of that with us. During that experience, I
Speaker 3: had my first direct contact with Jordan. I could hear
Speaker 3: his voice very clearly, and it was not inside my head.
Speaker 3: It was a voice that was coming from outside of me.
Speaker 3: It was his voice, and he was telling me the
Speaker 3: very things that I needed to know that he still existed.
Speaker 3: In fact, he's watching over us, he was observing our lives.
Speaker 3: He was connected to us, and he was good and
Speaker 3: he was happy where he was. So this was a
Speaker 3: first major step for me, for us, my wife and
Speaker 3: I to begin to connect to him again and to
Speaker 3: re establish the relationship through the curtain to the other side.
Speaker 3: So that was important. Also before this, I had read
Speaker 3: a lot of Michael Newton's work on Juria of Souls
Speaker 3: and so forth, and I had learned, because I'm psychotherapist
Speaker 3: and I'm a good hypnotist, I'd learned his particular method
Speaker 3: of regressing people to their past lives and then from
Speaker 3: there bouncing into the life between lives and having them
Speaker 3: observe the life between lives. And I had done that
Speaker 3: with quite a few people. I didn't charge them, but
Speaker 3: I did it. If anybody who wanted it and needed
Speaker 3: I would do it, and I got to observe their experience.
Speaker 3: But I never got to have it. And so somewhere
Speaker 3: along this point in time, I got involved with Ralph Messner,
Speaker 3: who was the late Ralph Messrs, a specialist in the
Speaker 3: afterlife and after deathcommunication. He did that same process. He
Speaker 3: induced me into a past life and then the life
Speaker 3: between lives, and I could make contact with Jordan in
Speaker 3: that way, And it's confirming that souls reincarnate together and
Speaker 3: often in very different relationships to each other in each
Speaker 3: particular life. They often have very different ways of connecting.
Speaker 3: The problem still was that it was all one way.
Speaker 3: I was with Alan Bodkin's process, I was just hearing
Speaker 3: Jordan passively. With mediums, I was hearing their representation of
Speaker 3: what Jordan was saying. Even in this hypnotic process. With Ralph,
Speaker 3: it was a passive process. I was experiencing things, but
Speaker 3: I was not able to participate in the communication. So
Speaker 3: finally Ralph taught me how to do channel communication. And
Speaker 3: it didn't take him very long, as it was actually
Speaker 3: a fairly simple process, and I tell your audience how
Speaker 3: to do it if they would be interested. But in
Speaker 3: less than an hour he taught me how to do it, proudly,
Speaker 3: much less than an hour. I went home that night
Speaker 3: and I had my first experience of conversation with Jordan,
Speaker 3: a conversation in which I could ask questions, he could
Speaker 3: answer them, I could respond, he could respond to whatever
Speaker 3: I was saying, and it felt like we had gone
Speaker 3: back to those beautiful days around the kitchen table where
Speaker 3: we could talk about anything and have these long, beautiful
Speaker 3: and endless conversations. And I had my first experience of
Speaker 3: being able to have that again and greatly shifted the grief,
Speaker 3: the grief of having lost him to I've lost his
Speaker 3: physical presence, but the relationship and the love is still
Speaker 3: completely there, completely intact, completely alive. So that was an
Speaker 3: enormous transformation for me. And I still have Jordan in
Speaker 3: my life, and to have that has made all the
Speaker 3: difference in terms of facing this loss, but also in
Speaker 3: terms of learning. I've learned so much from him, and
Speaker 3: that's made a big difference. I have a completely different
Speaker 3: understanding and cosmology how the universe works as a result
Speaker 3: of his communications.
Speaker 2: Before we end our chat today, we'd love to know
Speaker 2: those steps, but I'd like to find a little bit
Speaker 2: more about some of the things that Jordan talked to
Speaker 2: you about. And in the beginning, a father knows his love.
Speaker 2: I know my dad's love. No one can convince me
Speaker 2: that some of the things I've experienced were just my imagination.
Speaker 2: You feel his presence, as you right.
Speaker 3: Question. I feel is love, If I could put it
Speaker 3: that way, I can feel his love inside of me,
Speaker 3: feeling his presence like he's sitting in the room. I
Speaker 3: don't actually have that experience. I can feel him in
Speaker 3: my body, and I can feel the love in my body.
Speaker 3: But how he manifests himself is the things he says
Speaker 3: that are occurring inside my mind but are definitely channeled,
Speaker 3: because there are things that I never dreamed of, have
Speaker 3: thought of imagined, and they're said in his way of communicating,
Speaker 3: not in mind. So what I get from him is
Speaker 3: is communication. But I do feel him physically.
Speaker 2: That's I guess the answer I was looking for in
Speaker 2: that love. No one can take that away. What kind
Speaker 2: of things did he talk about? Did he tell you
Speaker 2: about the spirit world, what he's doing, what life's about?
Speaker 3: That? Yeah, Over time they shared all of that with me,
Speaker 3: and he's decided that he's going to write certain books,
Speaker 3: and he set out to write a book, Lewini's Landscape
Speaker 3: in the Afterlife, which is really helping people with a
Speaker 3: fear of death and telling them exactly what is out there,
Speaker 3: what to expect, what that afterlife looks like, it feels,
Speaker 3: and also why we leave it to come here. So
Speaker 3: he outlined the book in about five minutes and then
Speaker 3: over time. Basically, I channeled all of his It's all
Speaker 3: from him. So what does he say the afterlife is
Speaker 3: their components to it. The first thing that happens after
Speaker 3: we die is we end up in he calls the
Speaker 3: landing Place, and it's just adjacent to the spirit world.
Speaker 3: And in the landing Place, the main function of that
Speaker 3: spot is to get used to having a non physical experience.
Speaker 3: We see it three hundred and sixty degrees not just
Speaker 3: straight ahead. We are hearing things telepathically. We move by intention,
Speaker 3: but not by muscle motions. And this landing Place is
Speaker 3: often familiar in some ways. It's a setting that we
Speaker 3: might have known in our lives. But it also has
Speaker 3: a surreal quality of heightened colors and so forth, very
Speaker 3: very beautiful, and it's there we meet God and some
Speaker 3: of the important souls, perhaps from our soul group, who
Speaker 3: come to greet us in that's place. We're getting used
Speaker 3: to this not being physical anymore. But it's also a
Speaker 3: place where guys evaluate our readiness to enter the spirit world.
Speaker 3: If we have a lot of intense residual emotions from
Speaker 3: the unfinished issues in our life that are really strong
Speaker 3: and overwhelming. A lot of fear or a lot of anger.
Speaker 3: We'll go to ancillary places where Bardo's where we work
Speaker 3: on that before we can enter the spiritual You can't
Speaker 3: enter the spirit world with intense negative emotions, and so
Speaker 3: there's sometimes a pausing that goes on and certain healing
Speaker 3: processes that have to happen before the soul is ready
Speaker 3: to fully enter the afterlife. The sort of sorting out
Speaker 3: is done in this anti room landing place, and so
Speaker 3: once we enter the spirit world, the very first stop
Speaker 3: is where we do life review as many people have
Speaker 3: talked about that. Jordan describes it, and I've had a
Speaker 3: little bit of the experience also when I've done the
Speaker 3: life between life regressions. It's a very powerful experience. And
Speaker 3: in that experience, we experience everything we've done, every choice
Speaker 3: we've made, from our own perspective, but also from the
Speaker 3: perspective of the person who was affected by that choice
Speaker 3: or that behavior. So we're experiencing it both ways. And
Speaker 3: on top of that, not only do we experience it
Speaker 3: as that person experienced it at the moment, but over
Speaker 3: time how it impacted them in terms of moving forward
Speaker 3: in their life, how what we did impacted and affected them,
Speaker 3: and we're going through every single significant choice that we
Speaker 3: made in our lives and observing its effect on ourselves
Speaker 3: on others over time longitude. So it's a very powerful process.
Speaker 3: It takes a while. We're supported by guys, and we
Speaker 3: do a tremendous amount of learning in this process. It's
Speaker 3: just it's huge. It's a monumental re experiencing of life
Speaker 3: from all perspectives. Then there are other steps that we
Speaker 3: can see in the afterlife, but fairly soon we reunite
Speaker 3: with our soul group. And as I think many people
Speaker 3: are aware of, the soul group is basically our family.
Speaker 3: It's our spiritual family. And there's anywhere between oh I
Speaker 3: don't know, six and twenty or so souls in each group.
Speaker 3: And then there are a lot of adjacent soul groups
Speaker 3: that connect to our own. We're not only involved our
Speaker 3: own soul group. You could think of it like a neighborhood.
Speaker 3: The soul group lives in one house and a little
Speaker 3: family together, and then there are houses that are next
Speaker 3: door and across the street and down the street, and
Speaker 3: these are all adjacent soul groups with whom we often
Speaker 3: have very significant and powerful connections of love and with
Speaker 3: whom we reincarnate. Typically, we often reincarnate with our own
Speaker 3: so group at the same time, the same place, in
Speaker 3: various relationships.
Speaker 2: This is a good time to take our first break,
Speaker 2: and then we'll be back with doctor Matthew McKay. He
Speaker 2: talks about some interesting things and he explains reincarnation in
Speaker 2: a way I've never heard before. So we'll be back.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio
Speaker 2: and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1: More of Sandra's coming up just around the corner. In
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Speaker 5: Now here's more. Sandra on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
Speaker 2: and this episode is dedicated to Professor Matthew McKay and
Speaker 2: the way he learned to communicate with his son Jordan.
Speaker 2: Some of the concepts that he brings up are new
Speaker 2: to me, and whether it's this episode or any episode
Speaker 2: of mine, or anybody that talks about the afterlife, use
Speaker 2: what fits to empower you in your life. If you
Speaker 2: can imagine going into a clothing store and maybe you're
Speaker 2: looking for a coat. You try on different coats, Maybe
Speaker 2: none of them fit, maybe a couple of them fit,
Speaker 2: those that fit, those that make you feel great, take
Speaker 2: them for your life. That's the same with different concepts
Speaker 2: around the afterlife. For all the billions of people who
Speaker 2: have ever lived, in the billions of ways that we've
Speaker 2: lived our life, I have a sneaky suspicion that there's
Speaker 2: not just one exact way that we experience our transitions
Speaker 2: depends on our beliefs and so forth. So now we'll
Speaker 2: get back to doctor McKay and he's talking about soul
Speaker 2: groups and reincarnating as soul groups.
Speaker 3: We often reincarnate with our own soul group at the
Speaker 3: same time, the same place, in various relationships. Others from
Speaker 3: adjacent groups will be part of our incarnational existence. So
Speaker 3: we return to our family and to our neighborhood essentially,
Speaker 3: and in the soul group, initially there's just a big celebration,
Speaker 3: and in the afterlife there's a lot of fun. I
Speaker 3: just want to mention that that there's music, there's games,
Speaker 3: there's partying, literally partying where people get together and just
Speaker 3: enjoyed the love of each other and catch up and
Speaker 3: community indicate there's a lot of things that we do
Speaker 3: in the afterlife that are really pleasurable and recreational, and
Speaker 3: we do that in our soul group as well. There's
Speaker 3: a particularly soul group that Jordan is and they call
Speaker 3: it the Farm because when in the afterlife, you can
Speaker 3: create images, and so whatever you actually think or imagine,
Speaker 3: you can create that image in such a way that
Speaker 3: it has a kind of a certain reality. And so
Speaker 3: that particular soul group has created a house that looks
Speaker 3: like a farmhouse, and for that reason they call their
Speaker 3: little group the Farm. And of course there's a celebration,
Speaker 3: there's an re engagement. Now, I just want to say
Speaker 3: something that might be of interest. Part of our soul
Speaker 3: energy always stays in the afterlife. It always stays, so
Speaker 3: we are always present in our soul group. We are
Speaker 3: always present in the afterlife, even though we incarnate. And
Speaker 3: so when we incarnate, part of our soul energy enters
Speaker 3: a body, but part of our soul energy always remains
Speaker 3: in the after life. So we reunite with the part
Speaker 3: of our energy that has always been there. It's a
Speaker 3: more full and vibrant energy because now all of our
Speaker 3: energy is in one place, but it is also an
Speaker 3: opportunity now to do more learning. So a lot of
Speaker 3: what we do should have fun is we engage in
Speaker 3: a lot of learning. There are guys who are specialty
Speaker 3: teachers that come in to our soul group and offer
Speaker 3: lessons about all manner things, but we also engage in
Speaker 3: learning in other ways. One of the big things that
Speaker 3: we do is we visit the Kashak Record as part
Speaker 3: of our learning process in the afterlife. And the Akashak
Speaker 3: Record is I'm sure many know you can think of
Speaker 3: it as a gigantic library, and in it it's contained
Speaker 3: everything that's ever happened. It's everything that's ever happened, particularly
Speaker 3: everything that's ever happened to any conscious entity conscious of soul.
Speaker 3: And a lot of the Kashak Record also involves incarnations
Speaker 3: and what each soul did in the incarnation on many,
Speaker 3: many countless planets, because we incarnate on many many different planets,
Speaker 3: Earth being one of the more difficult ones. So we
Speaker 3: do a lot of studying of that, and part of
Speaker 3: that is studying the life we live, but also the
Speaker 3: life we might have lived, so we can actually in
Speaker 3: the caution record, we can look at what if I
Speaker 3: decided something else? And then a chapter opens and we
Speaker 3: can now see the outcome of what that would have
Speaker 3: looked like had we made that other choice. And there's
Speaker 3: a lot of learning that comes from that. And we
Speaker 3: can do the same thing with other souls. We can
Speaker 3: go back and take a look at Abraham Lincoln and see, Okay,
Speaker 3: what would have happened if he didn't sign the Emancipation Proclamation?
Speaker 3: What would have been the outcome were going to see?
Speaker 3: We could study that. So we're studying outcomes, We're studying
Speaker 3: what happens when you do X and Y and z.
Speaker 3: And there's so much learning there. So it's not just
Speaker 3: what I did, but what I might have done, or
Speaker 3: choices that were potential but ever made. So it's a
Speaker 3: beautiful opportunity. And when we certainly close up the record,
Speaker 3: that chapter becomes null. It's not like a parallel universe.
Speaker 3: It's just a possible universe that exists just as long
Speaker 3: as we were observing it and learning from it, and
Speaker 3: then close it, it goes back into a kind of
Speaker 3: avoid state.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask because Jordan never said, Dad, I
Speaker 2: know you're going through pain. This is the point of
Speaker 2: being there on earth.
Speaker 3: I think that's the greatest gift He's given me, is
Speaker 3: a sense of our purpose here. Why do we come
Speaker 3: to this place that's so painful, where we go through
Speaker 3: such struggle. And I think a lot of people feel
Speaker 3: like pain is a bad thing. It's like a sign
Speaker 3: of failure, It's like something we've done wrong, we shouldn't
Speaker 3: have pain. But in fact, we come to a physical
Speaker 3: world under a body that has a nervous system, so
Speaker 3: that we can actually encounter pain. And so why would
Speaker 3: we do that? What is the point of pain? What
Speaker 3: Jordan says is that we incarnate in order to learn
Speaker 3: how to love in the face of pain. That's the
Speaker 3: main task we have here. We are learning how to love. See,
Speaker 3: in the spirit world, love exists without qualification. We just
Speaker 3: exist in the state of love. Love is essentially the
Speaker 3: air that we breathe in the spirit world, and it's
Speaker 3: what connects all of us. But we incarnate to learn
Speaker 3: how to love intentionally, meaning how to love in the
Speaker 3: face of obstacles and push back from the world we
Speaker 3: live in. Maybe a silly example would be the parent
Speaker 3: who comes home is exhausted and is worn out and
Speaker 3: their kid is upset by something and it needs some
Speaker 3: help with their homework and so forth. We have to
Speaker 3: love in the face of the pain of the tiredness.
Speaker 3: Maybe we had a bad day of work, we're feeling anxious.
Speaker 3: In the face of the anxiety, Maybe we're upset with
Speaker 3: our kid because they've been misbehaving, and so we have
Speaker 3: to love in the face of that anger or irritation.
Speaker 3: So that's what love is about. That's what we're learning here,
Speaker 3: how to love in the face of these obstacles, in
Speaker 3: the face of the pain, and the pain is teaching
Speaker 3: us how to love. It's teaching us how to love.
Speaker 3: In the spirit world, there is no pain, and love
Speaker 3: is effortless. But we have to learn how to love intentionally,
Speaker 3: and that's what we come here to do. And the
Speaker 3: last thing I'll say, it's just another comment here, is
Speaker 3: that everything we're learning we come here to learn, and
Speaker 3: everything we're learning we're uploading to all. So not only
Speaker 3: are we learning it as individual souls, but our mission
Speaker 3: here is to keep teaching all, is to give all
Speaker 3: everything that we've learned and it uploaded. And so the
Speaker 3: mission of learning to love in the face of pain
Speaker 3: and everything else that we learn about this existence is
Speaker 3: given to all, and all continues to grow and develop
Speaker 3: and evolve. Now, some people think that God is perfect
Speaker 3: and it doesn't evolve and doesn't grow. That's not at
Speaker 3: all true for you. To Jordan, God is evolving. God,
Speaker 3: all of consciousness is evolving, growing and continually learning. And
Speaker 3: the means by which most of God's learning occurs is
Speaker 3: us incarnating in physical worlds, and all the things we
Speaker 3: learn become part of the knowledge of God.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about God. A lot of
Speaker 2: people I've interviewed have had near death experiences and they've
Speaker 2: seen whoever the person is from their own religion. Some
Speaker 2: people just feel this incredible light and it's this unconditional love.
Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit more through Jordan about
Speaker 2: this unconditional love, this light, this God. It's the best word.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the best way I can describe it is that all.
Speaker 3: For use the word all actually because God is a
Speaker 3: kind of limited word. So like we have this picture
Speaker 3: of some little guy in a white beard sitting in
Speaker 3: a big golden crusted chair or something, and that's not
Speaker 3: what it is. All is all of us. We are
Speaker 3: all God. Every single conscious entity is part of All,
Speaker 3: and is part of God. And that's why when we
Speaker 3: learn something, God learns something, that's because we are part
Speaker 3: of it. And so when you talk about, you know,
Speaker 3: feeling the love of God and feeling the love and
Speaker 3: connection to God, what we're talking about is oneness. We're
Speaker 3: talking about feeling the love of all because we're all
Speaker 3: connected with love. That's what holds God together, That's what
Speaker 3: holds all consciousness together, and in fact, everything, the conscience creates,
Speaker 3: all the world's, all the physical, everything is held together
Speaker 3: with the gravity of love. So when we're feeling the
Speaker 3: love of God, we're feeling that oneness, that deep connection
Speaker 3: to all, and the love that holds it all together,
Speaker 3: holds all of us together and unites us and connects
Speaker 3: us as one. So it's a little different than in
Speaker 3: my understanding from Jordan's, a little different from God is
Speaker 3: an entity personality that showers love out. But Jordan's understanding,
Speaker 3: what he's taught me is that we are all God,
Speaker 3: and the love we experience is the love of connectedness
Speaker 3: to all and everything that exists, and that love is
Speaker 3: something shared as opposed to showered on us, if that
Speaker 3: makes sense. It's something that we all share and experience
Speaker 3: together as opposed to an entity, showers us with love.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that. I want to read just a
Speaker 2: few sentences that I read in your book because it
Speaker 2: deals with doubt. You're ed, I'm exhausted. I blow out
Speaker 2: the candle. I want to believe everything I've heard, but
Speaker 2: I hate self deception. It's a response I inherited from
Speaker 2: my father, a man who despised the ways people lie
Speaker 2: to themselves to justify their needs and actions. But suddenly
Speaker 2: it's clear I will have to live with that remembered
Speaker 2: content in order to keep listening. If I want to
Speaker 2: open the channel so my boy can talk to me,
Speaker 2: then I'll also have to live with a doubt, perhaps
Speaker 2: even ridicule, Matt. So many people we doubt our own thoughts.
Speaker 2: We worry about what other people have to say about
Speaker 2: what we're doing. What would you say that helped.
Speaker 3: You move through that?
Speaker 2: You know what, I've got a backbone to share this,
Speaker 2: this is reality and to push through that doubt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that what you say is really important
Speaker 3: about pushing through because it's not a matter of certainty.
Speaker 3: And actually, some people clients of mine that I've taught
Speaker 3: how to channel, and it resisted because they say, I'm
Speaker 3: only going to channel if I have no doubt, if
Speaker 3: I have certainty, and then they don't. They don't channel
Speaker 3: even though they could, even though they have, because they
Speaker 3: are insisting on certainty in order to reach out across
Speaker 3: the veil and reach the loved ones on the other side.
Speaker 3: So if we're going to say I have to have
Speaker 3: certain need to do this, and most of us will
Speaker 3: not be able to do.
Speaker 2: It, we need to take a quick break, and I
Speaker 2: promise we'll pick up right where we left off. You're
Speaker 2: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and
Speaker 2: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
Speaker 6: At paranormal date dot com, you meet the most fantastic people.
Speaker 5: Hi, I'm Tom.
Speaker 2: Hi I'm Jennifer. What brings you here?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm here to meet someone who understands me how
Speaker 7: so well. I'm into UFOs, go stadiens, Bigfoot, conspiracy theories,
Speaker 7: the paranormal, that kind of stuff, but can't seem to
Speaker 7: find anyone.
Speaker 5: Who gets it.
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Speaker 2: I gotta go.
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Speaker 2: hundred Red Cross. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife.
Speaker 2: I'm Sander Champlain, and we're with doctor Matthew McKay, author
Speaker 2: of the book Seeking Jordan. How I learned the truth
Speaker 2: about death and the invisible Universe. I had just asked
Speaker 2: him about doubt. Very difficult to think. Are these thoughts
Speaker 2: coming in my mind? Are they mine? Or are they
Speaker 2: really from someone in the afterlife. So as we continue on,
Speaker 2: we'll talk about pushing through doubt, We'll talk about grief,
Speaker 2: and he'll share with us his method of connecting to
Speaker 2: loved ones and even our soul.
Speaker 3: Clients of mine that I've taught how to channel, and
Speaker 3: I'm resisted because they say, I'm only going to channel
Speaker 3: if I have no doubt, if I have certainty, And
Speaker 3: then they don't. They don't channel even though they could,
Speaker 3: even though they have because they are insisting on certainty
Speaker 3: in order to reach out across the veil and reach
Speaker 3: the loved ones on the other side. So if we're
Speaker 3: going to say I have to have uncertainty to do this,
Speaker 3: then most of us will not be able to do it.
Speaker 3: But it's just what you said. It's pushing through the doubt,
Speaker 3: and doubt shows up for me still. I have moments
Speaker 3: where the thought occurs to me, is this real? Or
Speaker 3: something Jordan says makes me wondering, what would you just say?
Speaker 3: Does that make sense? And oftentimes even just starting the process,
Speaker 3: I have to start with the awareness that I have
Speaker 3: fear that something might happen that might lead me to
Speaker 3: believe that it's not true, so that doubt is there.
Speaker 3: I've been doing this now for fifteen years. I would
Speaker 3: say the doubt has diminished somewhat, but it still shows up.
Speaker 3: And so every time I start, I usually channel with
Speaker 3: Jordan once a week. Every time I start to channel,
Speaker 3: I can feel a little at that edge of anxiety
Speaker 3: that what if something happens here that makes me wonder
Speaker 3: if this is true? And there's a little bit of doubt,
Speaker 3: And so I have to push through it because my
Speaker 3: biggest value is the love between Jordan and myself and
Speaker 3: enact that and be part of that and engage with
Speaker 3: him with love. That's my biggest value. And I have
Speaker 3: to do that even though sometimes there's some doubt.
Speaker 2: It's so tough being human. I tell you, we all
Speaker 2: know this. We have this voice in our head that's
Speaker 2: not our biggest champion. I know sometimes there's that divine
Speaker 2: guidance and that self with a big ass, our soul self.
Speaker 2: But why do we believe the voice of this negativity
Speaker 2: when we look at the mirror and mine shows the
Speaker 2: extra pounds and the gray hair and all that and
Speaker 2: is not my best friend. Yet we believe it for
Speaker 2: so many other things. So push through that doubt. I
Speaker 2: love that I do.
Speaker 3: Remember when I said love in the face of pain.
Speaker 3: See if we're going to engage in a loving way
Speaker 3: with souls on the other side and maintain that relationship
Speaker 3: and send love back and forth. We have to do
Speaker 3: it in the face of pain here, and the pain
Speaker 3: is doubt an uncertainty, and pain is missing that person
Speaker 3: and grieving, and then when we try to make contact,
Speaker 3: it brings up the grief. So this is another example.
Speaker 3: In this case, it's loving across the veil that we
Speaker 3: have to hear. We have to do it in the
Speaker 3: face of pain and doubt is one of those difficult things.
Speaker 2: Agreed, If you wouldn't mind share some tools about how
Speaker 2: we can channel, as you call it, with our loved ones,
Speaker 2: because Matt, who's listening right now, could be experiencing some
Speaker 2: of the worst grief imaginable, and we want to believe.
Speaker 2: How would we start If you wouldn't mind, we'd love
Speaker 2: to learn.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was one other thing I wanted to say
Speaker 3: about God and the afterlife. There is no judgment in
Speaker 3: the afterlife. God doesn't judge, or that all doesn't judge.
Speaker 3: This whole idea that we have to live this life
Speaker 3: and we're going to be judged at the end of
Speaker 3: it and bad go to hell and then we're to
Speaker 3: go to have it's completely false and Jordan's just said
Speaker 3: that over and over and over again. It's false. There
Speaker 3: is no judgment in the afterlife. All we do is
Speaker 3: go there and learn from the life we just lived.
Speaker 3: We're not judged, we're not ridiculed, we're not examined, we're
Speaker 3: not turned back because of the things we did. So
Speaker 3: I just want to really emphasize that that that's one
Speaker 3: of the other really important things about the afterlife. It's
Speaker 3: a place of love and zero judgment, and there are
Speaker 3: no places where people go to and suffer. Okay, how
Speaker 3: do I chaml Sorry for that little digression, but it's perfect.
Speaker 2: We needed to hear it.
Speaker 3: I would encourage people to just select a place that
Speaker 3: you feel safe and secure. I actually usually channel right
Speaker 3: here in this room, right at this desk and such
Speaker 3: my childhood desk that my folks gave me when I
Speaker 3: was eleven. Find something that makes the place that you
Speaker 3: feel safe and set that up as a kind of
Speaker 3: a ritual for where you'll channel. Then you need to
Speaker 3: clarify the spiritual address of where you're sending your communications
Speaker 3: to the afterlife. You can just be aware of the
Speaker 3: soul you're trying to communicate. By the way you can
Speaker 3: channel yourself. You can channel your own soul energy in
Speaker 3: the afterlife, and that could be an address you send communications,
Speaker 3: you can channel to guides and so anyway, just be
Speaker 3: clear on the address, who is it, what entity are
Speaker 3: you seeking to communicate with. I think it's sometimes it's
Speaker 3: very helpful in terms of communicating to the souls who
Speaker 3: we knew in life and have died. Is to have
Speaker 3: a little talentman, something that connects us to a physical object,
Speaker 3: something that maybe they gave us, something that belonged to them.
Speaker 3: I use Jordan. I use actually this business card that
Speaker 3: he had that says Jordan McKay that the CEO of
Speaker 3: Mega Technology there was no Mega Technology. He used this
Speaker 3: to get into trade shows when he was in high school.
Speaker 3: But I keep the card because it just reminds me
Speaker 3: of his humor. And it's just the quality of a
Speaker 3: person to create a person. And that's my talents. But
Speaker 3: you find one of your own and get something that's
Speaker 3: nexts you to that person in a physical way. It
Speaker 3: really is helpful. For eye fixation. Just use a candle,
Speaker 3: just something that holds your attention. You can look at it,
Speaker 3: but it could be anything that could be a mandala
Speaker 3: or some sort of sea polish stone or Celtic not whatever.
Speaker 3: But find something you can put your attention on and
Speaker 3: then take a breath, and as you exhale, now we're
Speaker 3: going to go into the kind of a symbol of
Speaker 3: a pasta meditation. As you exil, just form the intention
Speaker 3: to open the channel. Bring all tension down to the diaphragm.
Speaker 3: Focus on the diaphragm. It's a center of breath, center
Speaker 3: of life. On each outbreath. Count So first out breath,
Speaker 3: one second, but two, three, four, keep counting to ten.
Speaker 3: If you're starting to feel receptive and open, you can
Speaker 3: start moving into channeling. If not, to another round of ten.
Speaker 3: So it's just a simple meditation where we attend to
Speaker 3: the breath. When there's a thought that comes up, let
Speaker 3: the thought go, go back to the breath, and just
Speaker 3: count each outbreath, each out there one, two, three, letting
Speaker 3: go of thoughts and returning to the breath. So it's
Speaker 3: very very simple meditation, and it's okay when thoughts show up,
Speaker 3: but just leave the thought as soon as you notice
Speaker 3: it and get back to the breath. So that gets
Speaker 3: us into a kind of a receptive state. And then meanwhile,
Speaker 3: while you're doing the meditation, just keep your eyes fixed
Speaker 3: on the candle. What Ralph taught me, is this a
Speaker 3: little divination to add to this? And what you do
Speaker 3: is you visualize at worb just above your head, maybe
Speaker 3: six inches above your head, color the sun, and just
Speaker 3: visualize it there and then see it elongating into a
Speaker 3: tube like connection to the soul you're trying to reach.
Speaker 3: And this is the channel opening we visualize it or
Speaker 3: and now we just visualize the channel opening all the
Speaker 3: way to that soul. And in fact, that's exactly what happens,
Speaker 3: because every soul in the afterlife who we love is
Speaker 3: just a thought of way, since we think about them,
Speaker 3: it opens the channel. And so the channel is opening
Speaker 3: as we are thinking about with love, we're thinking about
Speaker 3: that soul that we want to connect to, and so
Speaker 3: the channel is now open. I think it's really important
Speaker 3: is to make sure that the communications are written down.
Speaker 3: So get it in a notebook or whatever. But you
Speaker 3: have to paper and have a writing implement and write
Speaker 3: your question down, write your first question down, and then wait.
Speaker 3: The answer will show up in your mind. But the
Speaker 3: answer is being channeled or it's being communicated telepathically, so
Speaker 3: just wait and it can come in different ways. Sometimes
Speaker 3: it comes as a big download. Just a huge download.
Speaker 3: It doesn't even words just knowing. Sometimes it comes as
Speaker 3: an image or a picture. Sometimes it comes as a
Speaker 3: few distinct words, you're very succinct. Sometimes it comes as
Speaker 3: a phrase, and then you have to wait for the
Speaker 3: phrase to turn into a whole sentence, and then you
Speaker 3: may wait a little bit for the next sentence, and
Speaker 3: sometimes it comes slowly. So it comes in all different ways,
Speaker 3: and it's okay. Every way is fine. If it comes
Speaker 3: as a picture or just knowing, then you have to
Speaker 3: find words to describe the knowing or the picture. But
Speaker 3: in every case, write down what you get, whether it's
Speaker 3: just a few words, very very compressed information, or in
Speaker 3: some cases it's many, many sentences, and just stay with
Speaker 3: it until it stops. Stay with it until the communication stops,
Speaker 3: and then you write down the next question. And the
Speaker 3: other thing is the act of writing. Watching that on
Speaker 3: the page is part of channeling because it actually puts
Speaker 3: us in a very receptive state. Literally watching the ink
Speaker 3: form on the page puts us in very recept state.
Speaker 3: So that's why it's so important in my view to
Speaker 3: write down the questions and the answers that come down.
Speaker 3: The other reason you want to write down the answers
Speaker 3: is you want to have a record to look back
Speaker 3: on later. I have lots of things that Jordan has
Speaker 3: said to me and I'll go back years later just
Speaker 3: read them and go, oh my god, I forgot that
Speaker 3: and that's important and that actually happens to me all
Speaker 3: the time. So having the record helps preserve the learning
Speaker 3: that you're getting. And you can ask anything. You can
Speaker 3: ask how that soul is, what they're doing. At one
Speaker 3: point I asked Jordan if he incarnated, he had incarnated
Speaker 3: as a little girl, and he could tell me some
Speaker 3: things about that life if I was curious. But you
Speaker 3: can ask about what's happening with the soul right now,
Speaker 3: what they're learning in the afterlife. Jordan's talked a lot
Speaker 3: about that. He's learning a lot about how to influence people,
Speaker 3: how to influence people to see things in new ways. Also,
Speaker 3: you can ask about what is going on up there,
Speaker 3: what is the afterlife like. Also you could ask advice
Speaker 3: for your own life. These souls are very wise. Every
Speaker 3: soul has had many, many lives, and they have the
Speaker 3: benefit of wisdom that we've forgotten. When they come here,
Speaker 3: we leave that behind as part of the amnesia of life.
Speaker 3: So they have all this wisdom, so we can ask
Speaker 3: their advice. I Jordan about advice about everything about his sister.
Speaker 3: How should I respond to this or that? I asked
Speaker 3: him work problems. I asked his advice. While I'm doing
Speaker 3: a psychotherapy session, I'm feeling stuck, what do I do now?
Speaker 3: And he speaks up and usually it's something that didn't
Speaker 3: occur to me. And so you can ask for advice.
Speaker 3: We can ask for the nature of reality that can
Speaker 3: help let us form a new or a more accurate
Speaker 3: cosmology of how things really are and why we're here,
Speaker 3: and we could ask about them and what's going on
Speaker 3: for them. I think it is important though, in these
Speaker 3: communications to convey love to that soul, to send them
Speaker 3: love in whatever form, because they need our love just
Speaker 3: like we need their love. It enhances their existence. So
Speaker 3: sending love, I think is an important part of channeling
Speaker 3: when we're channeling love on something, So that's basically it.
Speaker 3: It's pretty much as simple as that. And after furious silence,
Speaker 3: when you finish one question, you can just write another
Speaker 3: one again.
Speaker 2: Let's go for our last break, and there's more to
Speaker 2: say from doctor Matthew McKay. We'll be right back. You're
Speaker 2: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and
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Speaker 3: The best afterlife information you can get.
Speaker 2: Well your own mom.
Speaker 4: Shades of the Afterlife with.
Speaker 5: Sandra Champlain.
Speaker 1: And now more Sandra on the iHeartRadio and Coach to
Speaker 1: Coach dam Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
Speaker 2: and we've been listening to professor and psychotherapist, doctor Matthew
Speaker 2: McKay on how he channels his son Jordan through writing
Speaker 2: if you're anything like me, this is an episode we
Speaker 2: want to listen to again with the notebook handy. As
Speaker 2: we move on, he's speaking about love and I have
Speaker 2: some more questions for him about this channeling process, and
Speaker 2: then we also get into the very important topic of grief,
Speaker 2: so let's continue.
Speaker 3: I think it is important, though, in these communications to
Speaker 3: convey love to that's so to send them love in
Speaker 3: whatever form, because they need our love just like we
Speaker 3: need their love. It enhances their existence. So sending love,
Speaker 3: I think is an important part of channeling. When we're
Speaker 3: channeling love on something the other side. Well, that's basically
Speaker 3: it's pretty much as simple as that. And after purious silence,
Speaker 3: when you finish one quest I should you can just
Speaker 3: write another one.
Speaker 2: That a couple of things that came to mind. One.
Speaker 2: I think it's great writing it down because I know,
Speaker 2: if I want to talk to my dad, I'll start, hey, Dad,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, it's what are we
Speaker 2: going to have for dinner tonight?
Speaker 3: Exactly a lot of distractions. Yes, that's a good point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're writing it down. When mister or missus,
Speaker 2: doubt does creep in, though, something comes out of the
Speaker 2: pen and the mind starts to analyze and think, oh,
Speaker 2: that's crazy, I just made it up. Do we go
Speaker 2: back to the candle? Do we go back to taking
Speaker 2: a few breaths? Thank you doubt for sharing. But we're
Speaker 2: going to keep going with this push through that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just keep going, Just keep going. Sometimes he
Speaker 3: says something. Jordan says a lot of things to me
Speaker 3: that haven't occurred to me before, which is one of
Speaker 3: the ways I feel clear about the authenticity of this communication.
Speaker 3: But I sometimes you'll say something on go, what is that?
Speaker 3: But I just keep going. I just stay with the process.
Speaker 3: The next question or I asked him to clarify it,
Speaker 3: or I'll even mentioned to him, boy, I'm feeling a
Speaker 3: lot of uncertainty, and so he'll just respond to that
Speaker 3: at some way, so I bring it into the conversation.
Speaker 3: But I think it's important to just keep going, don't
Speaker 3: give up when doubt shows up, don't stop, stay with it.
Speaker 2: I remember when I wrote my book, I had a
Speaker 2: writing coach and she says, just let it all flow.
Speaker 2: Let it all flow. The time to analyze it is
Speaker 2: after after you got your stories out. And I think
Speaker 2: two when we do the channel in writing don't write
Speaker 2: a sentence and read a sentence. Write a sentence, read
Speaker 2: a sentence. Maybe just be in that flow, be open
Speaker 2: and experiment with it. I also think, Matt, that it's important.
Speaker 2: I know you say you work with Jordan every week.
Speaker 2: There's so many people, and myself included, we want immediate results.
Speaker 2: We want maybe the lights to flicker on and off
Speaker 2: or something so obvious it takes something from us. I
Speaker 2: think it's not that they can't give us good signs,
Speaker 2: because they can, but to open up that relationship and
Speaker 2: keep it going. So would it makes sense to make
Speaker 2: a date with our loved ones and keep that journal
Speaker 2: And today's date is such and such. How often did
Speaker 2: you channel with Jordan when you started.
Speaker 3: I can't remember. I would channel with him fairly often,
Speaker 3: but it might have been about the same interval now
Speaker 3: as once a week, I would say. And so over
Speaker 3: the course of fifteen years, I've had hundreds of communications,
Speaker 3: and I've been so blessed you from him, And so
Speaker 3: I don't think there's any rule about this, but I
Speaker 3: do think that people should try to do it often
Speaker 3: enough if they stay connected. It's the same thing when
Speaker 3: you're any loved one. You have to talk to them periodically,
Speaker 3: and that's what feeds the relationship. And you talk to them,
Speaker 3: you connect, You find out what's going on with them,
Speaker 3: They find out what's going on with you, and through
Speaker 3: that process, love flows between you. And I think it's
Speaker 3: exactly the same thing with loved ones in the affli
Speaker 3: and Jordan has been so clear about this, I guess
Speaker 3: I want to say this that relationships always live. It
Speaker 3: doesn't matter if that person dies, the relationship lives. That
Speaker 3: person is just a thought away. They love us, and
Speaker 3: the love is still living, still active, still flourishing. And
Speaker 3: that's true regardless of whether we connect to them or not,
Speaker 3: whether we channel or not. But when we channel, we
Speaker 3: get to act on that love ourselves and we get
Speaker 3: to bathe in the love. We get to feel the love,
Speaker 3: which is such a beautiful thing. That's one of the
Speaker 3: things that is so wonderful for me there. It doesn't
Speaker 3: happen to every time I channel, but there are moments
Speaker 3: when I just feel Jordan's love all through me and
Speaker 3: I feel my love for him inside my body, and
Speaker 3: it's just such a beautiful moment. And that's one of
Speaker 3: the rewards of channeling, is feeling that love as an
Speaker 3: act of living, experience beautiful words.
Speaker 2: I know personally grief can come on like waves, and
Speaker 2: all the investigating I've done really has helped with the grief,
Speaker 2: but the grief is still there. So if we're in
Speaker 2: one of those waves of grief, do we wait till
Speaker 2: another time to do it? Push through it, include our
Speaker 2: loved one in it. Any words on grief.
Speaker 3: All emotions are waves, and interestingly, some resources shows the
Speaker 3: average emotion lasts less than seven minutes, even grief itself.
Speaker 3: Now there'll be another wave, but all emotions come as waves,
Speaker 3: and to not be afraid of them when that wave comes,
Speaker 3: allow it to ride it. And it's also you mentioned
Speaker 3: one choice we have when that grief shows up is
Speaker 3: to turn it into communication, to open the channel during
Speaker 3: a period of grief. And I think sometimes there's complicated
Speaker 3: things about grief, and sometimes grief actually blocks the channel.
Speaker 3: So people are waiting for the loved ones to show
Speaker 3: up or a period to them or give them a sign,
Speaker 3: and their grief is so powerful it kind of blocks
Speaker 3: the channel and the loved one can't get through. But
Speaker 3: also paradoxically, if you deliberately open the channel during grief,
Speaker 3: I think it can make it. The communication is more intense,
Speaker 3: more beautiful in some ways because now we're just not
Speaker 3: conveying words, we're conveying our deepest feelings, our love on
Speaker 3: the deepest level. So the grief actually is an opportunity
Speaker 3: to open the channel with great power and truthfulness. And
Speaker 3: the two things here, one is don't be afraid of
Speaker 3: the wave. Let the wave come. See, people are afraid
Speaker 3: of grief because they think it's a model. Oh the
Speaker 3: grief's gonna come, it's gonna crush me and down I go.
Speaker 3: I won't be able to survive. But it doesn't work
Speaker 3: like that. It's just a wave and a wave subsides,
Speaker 3: and after a period of time there'll be another way.
Speaker 3: The longer out to go be after the person's death.
Speaker 3: Usually the waves are further apart, and sometimes they're a
Speaker 3: little less intense. But it's also possible years later you
Speaker 3: can have a wave that goes right through the roof
Speaker 3: and ride it and allow it and don't be afraid
Speaker 3: of it, and that wave is actually an opportunity to connect.
Speaker 3: I just want to encourage people to allow the feeling.
Speaker 3: On some level, the feeling is beautiful because what makes
Speaker 3: grief so intense is the love, and so when we
Speaker 3: allow the grief, we're also allowing the love. And I
Speaker 3: guess I want to encourage people to do that. And
Speaker 3: the last thing I will say about grief is I've
Speaker 3: learned if I could put that way to grieve Jordan's
Speaker 3: physical absence, and he'd be thirty nine. Now. I don't
Speaker 3: get to see him grow up. I don't get to
Speaker 3: see him having I mean, he was twenty three when
Speaker 3: he died. They're not going to be a family. His
Speaker 3: girlfriend when he died has a new partner and has
Speaker 3: a kid, and I won't get to have any of
Speaker 3: that I or get to observe any of that, or
Speaker 3: be part of any of that. Jordan in his life
Speaker 3: doesn't get to have that. And so I can have
Speaker 3: grief about his physical absence, but I don't have grief
Speaker 3: about he's gone. And I don't have grief about the
Speaker 3: love I have for him has nowhere to go, or
Speaker 3: the love he has for me I can't receive. That
Speaker 3: is not part of the grief. The grief is just
Speaker 3: limited to, Oh, his physical presence is not here, but
Speaker 3: Jordan is here. Jordan is with me, and he says
Speaker 3: that to me all the time. Bill Tarious, I say
Speaker 3: it all the time. He's done. I am with you.
Speaker 3: I am with you, and he is. So the grief
Speaker 3: is limited when we start really communicating and connecting, limited
Speaker 3: to just the loss of that physical manifestation of that soul.
Speaker 2: Beautiful words. I spoke with a mom you may know her,
Speaker 2: Maria pay, whose two sons were murdered by her ex
Speaker 2: husband and then he killed himself, and she said, when
Speaker 2: those waves of grief come, I think of a good
Speaker 2: memory with my boys, that love, and then I start
Speaker 2: talking to them. So that's her way in and then
Speaker 2: really touched my heart. Matt, any more words you wish
Speaker 2: to share?
Speaker 3: Jordan asked me to say. When I have an opportunity
Speaker 3: to tell a little bit about history and us, is
Speaker 3: that He just says, Remember, you will be received, you
Speaker 3: will be cared for, and you will be loved. When
Speaker 3: you die, he says, the dark door will open and
Speaker 3: the light of love take you. So you don't have
Speaker 3: to be afraid of death. And also we don't have
Speaker 3: to be afraid of the impermanence. Here where loved ones
Speaker 3: appear to die, the dark door opens and the light
Speaker 3: of love has taken them in and will take us.
Speaker 3: So enjoyed being with you, son.
Speaker 2: And thank you to doctor Matthew McKay, author of the
Speaker 2: book Seeking Jordan, how I learned the truth about death
Speaker 2: and the Invisible Universe. I hope you give doctor Matt's
Speaker 2: channeling a try. Whether you call it automatic writing or
Speaker 2: inspired writing, it's all dealing with the same tools to connect.
Speaker 2: Our loved ones are with us, and they work with
Speaker 2: us in such subtle ways, and sometimes we just need
Speaker 2: to quiet that busy mind, to let the floodgates open.
Speaker 2: That little voice of doubt will always be there for us.
Speaker 2: But the more we do this, the more we will
Speaker 2: be convinced that it is our loved ones speaking. I
Speaker 2: came across a few quotes today that I want to
Speaker 2: share with you, not about the afterlife, but about living life.
Speaker 2: Often it's very hard to take the first step in
Speaker 2: the direction of our dreams, and it may be to
Speaker 2: do the practice doctor mackay told us about today. William
Speaker 2: shed said a ship in a harbor is safe, but
Speaker 2: that is not what ships are built for. Donald Walsh
Speaker 2: said life begins at the end of your comfort zone.
Speaker 2: My friend, it is so difficult being a human being.
Speaker 2: But when we venture out of the safe harbor and
Speaker 2: we have our eyes focused on a goal, miracles happen.
Speaker 2: You can fill the sales with gratitude and kindness and
Speaker 2: being of service to others. I think that's the recipe
Speaker 2: for a good life. As a reminder, my home base
Speaker 2: is we Don't Die dot com. If you enter your
Speaker 2: name and your email address on that front page down
Speaker 2: at the bottom, you get a free copy of my book.
Speaker 2: Chapter ten is how to Survive Grief. I do hope
Speaker 2: you take me up on that. It's so powerful. We
Speaker 2: also offer our free Sunday gathering of course with medium
Speaker 2: demonstration included wonderful classes, demonstrations, events, and so much more.
Speaker 2: I'm Sandra Champlain and from the bottom of my heart,
Speaker 2: thank you for listening too Shades of the Afterlife on
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1: And if you liked this episode of Shades of the Afterlife,
Speaker 1: wait until you hear the next one. Thank you for
Speaker 1: listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Speaker 1: Podcast Network.