1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast, a 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:05,559 Speaker 1: paranormal podcast network. 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 2: Where we offer you. 4 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Podcasts of the supernatural and the unexplained. Get ready now 5 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: for Shades of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only, 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to Coast, 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: am employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors and associates. 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 2: We would like to encourage you to do your own 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi, everybody, 12 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: Sandra here. I'm on a short break this week, so 13 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 2: please enjoy this best of episode. Hi. I'm Sandra Champlain. 14 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 2: For over twenty five years, I've been on a journey 15 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: to prove the existence of life after death. On each episode, 16 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 2: we'll discuss the reasons we now know that our loved 17 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: ones have survived physical debt and so will we. Welcome 18 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 2: to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm very excited today. I'm 19 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: excited to share our guest. I'm excited that there's a 20 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: new way to communicate with our loved ones. Today you'll 21 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: meet doctor Matthew McKay who's a psychology professor in Berkeley, California, 22 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: who never would have believed in the world of the 23 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: afterlife and communication had his own adult son not been 24 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: taken from him. Doctor McKay has authored or co authored 25 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: more than twenty five psychology, self hell and therapist texts 26 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: and books specializing in anxiety and depression. And in this 27 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 2: episode today you'll hear his story and what he does 28 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: to connect with his son, Jordan. Here's doctor Matthew McKay. 29 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 3: I'm glad to be with you, Sandra. So it's more 30 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 3: than fifteen years now since Jordan died. He was on 31 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 3: his way home from work on his bicycle and men 32 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: attacked him, probably to try to steal a bike. Eventually, 33 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 3: after a tremendous physical battle, they shot him and he 34 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 3: died on the street. As anyone can imagine, that's the 35 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 3: worst thing that happened, is losing your child at that 36 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 3: moment or very shortly afterwards. I think that the two 37 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 3: things that mattered most to me, and I think this 38 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 3: may be true for a lot of appearance or anyone 39 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: who loses a loved one, does that soul still exist 40 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 3: and are they okay? Are they in a place where 41 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 3: they feel good? And I was just consumed with that question, 42 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 3: and so I did start looking for Jordan, started seeking 43 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 3: him in different ways. In we went to mediums and 44 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 3: got some sense of something he was saying through them. 45 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 3: And yet while there was some sense of him, some 46 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 3: reassurance he might still exist, it wasn't anything that really 47 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 3: warmed our hearts, and so we began looking in other ways. 48 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 3: We sought out Alan Botkin, who discovered accidentally something he 49 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 3: calls and do stuff after death communication went to Chicago. 50 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 3: It's a technique that comes from EMDR. I moved in 51 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,119 Speaker 3: to sensitization through processing, which is something that we used 52 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: to help treat trauma. I've used it with hundreds of 53 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 3: clients over the years, but in this case, we were 54 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 3: going to see him and he was going to use 55 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: his variation of that with us. During that experience, I 56 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: had my first direct contact with Jordan. I could hear 57 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 3: his voice very clearly, and it was not inside my head. 58 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 3: It was a voice that was coming from outside of me. 59 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 3: It was his voice, and he was telling me the 60 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: very things that I needed to know that he still existed. 61 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,679 Speaker 3: In fact, he's watching over us, he was observing our lives. 62 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 3: He was connected to us, and he was good and 63 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 3: he was happy where he was. So this was a 64 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: first major step for me, for us, my wife and 65 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 3: I to begin to connect to him again and to 66 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 3: re establish the relationship through the curtain to the other side. 67 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: So that was important. Also before this, I had read 68 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 3: a lot of Michael Newton's work on Juria of Souls 69 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 3: and so forth, and I had learned, because I'm psychotherapist 70 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 3: and I'm a good hypnotist, I'd learned his particular method 71 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 3: of regressing people to their past lives and then from 72 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 3: there bouncing into the life between lives and having them 73 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 3: observe the life between lives. And I had done that 74 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 3: with quite a few people. I didn't charge them, but 75 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 3: I did it. If anybody who wanted it and needed 76 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 3: I would do it, and I got to observe their experience. 77 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 3: But I never got to have it. And so somewhere 78 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 3: along this point in time, I got involved with Ralph Messner, 79 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 3: who was the late Ralph Messrs, a specialist in the 80 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: afterlife and after deathcommunication. He did that same process. He 81 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 3: induced me into a past life and then the life 82 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 3: between lives, and I could make contact with Jordan in 83 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 3: that way, And it's confirming that souls reincarnate together and 84 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 3: often in very different relationships to each other in each 85 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 3: particular life. They often have very different ways of connecting. 86 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 3: The problem still was that it was all one way. 87 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 3: I was with Alan Bodkin's process, I was just hearing 88 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: Jordan passively. With mediums, I was hearing their representation of 89 00:05:55,240 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 3: what Jordan was saying. Even in this hypnotic process. With Ralph, 90 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 3: it was a passive process. I was experiencing things, but 91 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: I was not able to participate in the communication. So 92 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: finally Ralph taught me how to do channel communication. And 93 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 3: it didn't take him very long, as it was actually 94 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 3: a fairly simple process, and I tell your audience how 95 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 3: to do it if they would be interested. But in 96 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 3: less than an hour he taught me how to do it, proudly, 97 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 3: much less than an hour. I went home that night 98 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: and I had my first experience of conversation with Jordan, 99 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 3: a conversation in which I could ask questions, he could 100 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 3: answer them, I could respond, he could respond to whatever 101 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 3: I was saying, and it felt like we had gone 102 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: back to those beautiful days around the kitchen table where 103 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 3: we could talk about anything and have these long, beautiful 104 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 3: and endless conversations. And I had my first experience of 105 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 3: being able to have that again and greatly shifted the grief, 106 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 3: the grief of having lost him to I've lost his 107 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 3: physical presence, but the relationship and the love is still 108 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 3: completely there, completely intact, completely alive. So that was an 109 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 3: enormous transformation for me. And I still have Jordan in 110 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: my life, and to have that has made all the 111 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 3: difference in terms of facing this loss, but also in 112 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: terms of learning. I've learned so much from him, and 113 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 3: that's made a big difference. I have a completely different 114 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: understanding and cosmology how the universe works as a result 115 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: of his communications. 116 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: Before we end our chat today, we'd love to know 117 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 2: those steps, but I'd like to find a little bit 118 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: more about some of the things that Jordan talked to 119 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: you about. And in the beginning, a father knows his love. 120 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: I know my dad's love. No one can convince me 121 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: that some of the things I've experienced were just my imagination. 122 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: You feel his presence, as you right. 123 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 3: Question. I feel is love, If I could put it 124 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: that way, I can feel his love inside of me, 125 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: feeling his presence like he's sitting in the room. I 126 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 3: don't actually have that experience. I can feel him in 127 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 3: my body, and I can feel the love in my body. 128 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 3: But how he manifests himself is the things he says 129 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 3: that are occurring inside my mind but are definitely channeled, 130 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 3: because there are things that I never dreamed of, have 131 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 3: thought of imagined, and they're said in his way of communicating, 132 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 3: not in mind. So what I get from him is 133 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 3: is communication. But I do feel him physically. 134 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 2: That's I guess the answer I was looking for in 135 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 2: that love. No one can take that away. What kind 136 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: of things did he talk about? Did he tell you 137 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: about the spirit world, what he's doing, what life's about? 138 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 3: That? Yeah, Over time they shared all of that with me, 139 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 3: and he's decided that he's going to write certain books, 140 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: and he set out to write a book, Lewini's Landscape 141 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 3: in the Afterlife, which is really helping people with a 142 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 3: fear of death and telling them exactly what is out there, 143 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: what to expect, what that afterlife looks like, it feels, 144 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: and also why we leave it to come here. So 145 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: he outlined the book in about five minutes and then 146 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 3: over time. Basically, I channeled all of his It's all 147 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 3: from him. So what does he say the afterlife is 148 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 3: their components to it. The first thing that happens after 149 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 3: we die is we end up in he calls the 150 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: landing Place, and it's just adjacent to the spirit world. 151 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 3: And in the landing Place, the main function of that 152 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 3: spot is to get used to having a non physical experience. 153 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 3: We see it three hundred and sixty degrees not just 154 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 3: straight ahead. We are hearing things telepathically. We move by intention, 155 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 3: but not by muscle motions. And this landing Place is 156 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 3: often familiar in some ways. It's a setting that we 157 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 3: might have known in our lives. But it also has 158 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 3: a surreal quality of heightened colors and so forth, very 159 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 3: very beautiful, and it's there we meet God and some 160 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 3: of the important souls, perhaps from our soul group, who 161 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 3: come to greet us in that's place. We're getting used 162 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 3: to this not being physical anymore. But it's also a 163 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 3: place where guys evaluate our readiness to enter the spirit world. 164 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 3: If we have a lot of intense residual emotions from 165 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: the unfinished issues in our life that are really strong 166 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 3: and overwhelming. A lot of fear or a lot of anger. 167 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 3: We'll go to ancillary places where Bardo's where we work 168 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 3: on that before we can enter the spiritual You can't 169 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 3: enter the spirit world with intense negative emotions, and so 170 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 3: there's sometimes a pausing that goes on and certain healing 171 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 3: processes that have to happen before the soul is ready 172 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 3: to fully enter the afterlife. The sort of sorting out 173 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 3: is done in this anti room landing place, and so 174 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 3: once we enter the spirit world, the very first stop 175 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 3: is where we do life review as many people have 176 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: talked about that. Jordan describes it, and I've had a 177 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 3: little bit of the experience also when I've done the 178 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: life between life regressions. It's a very powerful experience. And 179 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 3: in that experience, we experience everything we've done, every choice 180 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 3: we've made, from our own perspective, but also from the 181 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: perspective of the person who was affected by that choice 182 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 3: or that behavior. So we're experiencing it both ways. And 183 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 3: on top of that, not only do we experience it 184 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: as that person experienced it at the moment, but over 185 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: time how it impacted them in terms of moving forward 186 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 3: in their life, how what we did impacted and affected them, 187 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 3: and we're going through every single significant choice that we 188 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 3: made in our lives and observing its effect on ourselves 189 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 3: on others over time longitude. So it's a very powerful process. 190 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 3: It takes a while. We're supported by guys, and we 191 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 3: do a tremendous amount of learning in this process. It's 192 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: just it's huge. It's a monumental re experiencing of life 193 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 3: from all perspectives. Then there are other steps that we 194 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,479 Speaker 3: can see in the afterlife, but fairly soon we reunite 195 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 3: with our soul group. And as I think many people 196 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 3: are aware of, the soul group is basically our family. 197 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 3: It's our spiritual family. And there's anywhere between oh I 198 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 3: don't know, six and twenty or so souls in each group. 199 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 3: And then there are a lot of adjacent soul groups 200 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 3: that connect to our own. We're not only involved our 201 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 3: own soul group. You could think of it like a neighborhood. 202 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: The soul group lives in one house and a little 203 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 3: family together, and then there are houses that are next 204 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 3: door and across the street and down the street, and 205 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 3: these are all adjacent soul groups with whom we often 206 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 3: have very significant and powerful connections of love and with 207 00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 3: whom we reincarnate. Typically, we often reincarnate with our own 208 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 3: so group at the same time, the same place, in 209 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 3: various relationships. 210 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 2: This is a good time to take our first break, 211 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: and then we'll be back with doctor Matthew McKay. He 212 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 2: talks about some interesting things and he explains reincarnation in 213 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: a way I've never heard before. So we'll be back. 214 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 2: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio 215 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 2: and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 216 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: More of Sandra's coming up just around the corner. 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It's the official Coast to Coast AM YouTube channel. 235 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 4: You're gonna love this. Just get on over to Coast 236 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 4: tocoastam dot com and start your free listening now. 237 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 5: Now here's more. Sandra on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 238 00:14:53,200 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 5: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 239 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain 240 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: and this episode is dedicated to Professor Matthew McKay and 241 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: the way he learned to communicate with his son Jordan. 242 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: Some of the concepts that he brings up are new 243 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: to me, and whether it's this episode or any episode 244 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: of mine, or anybody that talks about the afterlife, use 245 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 2: what fits to empower you in your life. If you 246 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: can imagine going into a clothing store and maybe you're 247 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: looking for a coat. You try on different coats, Maybe 248 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 2: none of them fit, maybe a couple of them fit, 249 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 2: those that fit, those that make you feel great, take 250 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: them for your life. That's the same with different concepts 251 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: around the afterlife. For all the billions of people who 252 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: have ever lived, in the billions of ways that we've 253 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 2: lived our life, I have a sneaky suspicion that there's 254 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: not just one exact way that we experience our transitions 255 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: depends on our beliefs and so forth. So now we'll 256 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: get back to doctor McKay and he's talking about soul 257 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: groups and reincarnating as soul groups. 258 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 3: We often reincarnate with our own soul group at the 259 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 3: same time, the same place, in various relationships. Others from 260 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 3: adjacent groups will be part of our incarnational existence. So 261 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 3: we return to our family and to our neighborhood essentially, 262 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 3: and in the soul group, initially there's just a big celebration, 263 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 3: and in the afterlife there's a lot of fun. I 264 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 3: just want to mention that that there's music, there's games, 265 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 3: there's partying, literally partying where people get together and just 266 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: enjoyed the love of each other and catch up and 267 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 3: community indicate there's a lot of things that we do 268 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 3: in the afterlife that are really pleasurable and recreational, and 269 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 3: we do that in our soul group as well. There's 270 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 3: a particularly soul group that Jordan is and they call 271 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 3: it the Farm because when in the afterlife, you can 272 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 3: create images, and so whatever you actually think or imagine, 273 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 3: you can create that image in such a way that 274 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 3: it has a kind of a certain reality. And so 275 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 3: that particular soul group has created a house that looks 276 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 3: like a farmhouse, and for that reason they call their 277 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 3: little group the Farm. And of course there's a celebration, 278 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: there's an re engagement. Now, I just want to say 279 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 3: something that might be of interest. Part of our soul 280 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 3: energy always stays in the afterlife. It always stays, so 281 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 3: we are always present in our soul group. We are 282 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 3: always present in the afterlife, even though we incarnate. And 283 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 3: so when we incarnate, part of our soul energy enters 284 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 3: a body, but part of our soul energy always remains 285 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 3: in the after life. So we reunite with the part 286 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 3: of our energy that has always been there. It's a 287 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 3: more full and vibrant energy because now all of our 288 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 3: energy is in one place, but it is also an 289 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 3: opportunity now to do more learning. So a lot of 290 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 3: what we do should have fun is we engage in 291 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 3: a lot of learning. There are guys who are specialty 292 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 3: teachers that come in to our soul group and offer 293 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 3: lessons about all manner things, but we also engage in 294 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 3: learning in other ways. One of the big things that 295 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 3: we do is we visit the Kashak Record as part 296 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 3: of our learning process in the afterlife. And the Akashak 297 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 3: Record is I'm sure many know you can think of 298 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 3: it as a gigantic library, and in it it's contained 299 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 3: everything that's ever happened. It's everything that's ever happened, particularly 300 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 3: everything that's ever happened to any conscious entity conscious of soul. 301 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 3: And a lot of the Kashak Record also involves incarnations 302 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 3: and what each soul did in the incarnation on many, 303 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 3: many countless planets, because we incarnate on many many different planets, 304 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 3: Earth being one of the more difficult ones. So we 305 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 3: do a lot of studying of that, and part of 306 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 3: that is studying the life we live, but also the 307 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 3: life we might have lived, so we can actually in 308 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 3: the caution record, we can look at what if I 309 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 3: decided something else? And then a chapter opens and we 310 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 3: can now see the outcome of what that would have 311 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 3: looked like had we made that other choice. And there's 312 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 3: a lot of learning that comes from that. And we 313 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: can do the same thing with other souls. We can 314 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 3: go back and take a look at Abraham Lincoln and see, Okay, 315 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 3: what would have happened if he didn't sign the Emancipation Proclamation? 316 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 3: What would have been the outcome were going to see? 317 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 3: We could study that. So we're studying outcomes, We're studying 318 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 3: what happens when you do X and Y and z. 319 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 3: And there's so much learning there. So it's not just 320 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 3: what I did, but what I might have done, or 321 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 3: choices that were potential but ever made. So it's a 322 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 3: beautiful opportunity. And when we certainly close up the record, 323 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 3: that chapter becomes null. It's not like a parallel universe. 324 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 3: It's just a possible universe that exists just as long 325 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 3: as we were observing it and learning from it, and 326 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 3: then close it, it goes back into a kind of 327 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 3: avoid state. 328 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask because Jordan never said, Dad, I 329 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 2: know you're going through pain. This is the point of 330 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 2: being there on earth. 331 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 3: I think that's the greatest gift He's given me, is 332 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 3: a sense of our purpose here. Why do we come 333 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 3: to this place that's so painful, where we go through 334 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 3: such struggle. And I think a lot of people feel 335 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 3: like pain is a bad thing. It's like a sign 336 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 3: of failure, It's like something we've done wrong, we shouldn't 337 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 3: have pain. But in fact, we come to a physical 338 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 3: world under a body that has a nervous system, so 339 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 3: that we can actually encounter pain. And so why would 340 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 3: we do that? What is the point of pain? What 341 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 3: Jordan says is that we incarnate in order to learn 342 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 3: how to love in the face of pain. That's the 343 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 3: main task we have here. We are learning how to love. See, 344 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 3: in the spirit world, love exists without qualification. We just 345 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 3: exist in the state of love. Love is essentially the 346 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 3: air that we breathe in the spirit world, and it's 347 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: what connects all of us. But we incarnate to learn 348 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 3: how to love intentionally, meaning how to love in the 349 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 3: face of obstacles and push back from the world we 350 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 3: live in. Maybe a silly example would be the parent 351 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 3: who comes home is exhausted and is worn out and 352 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 3: their kid is upset by something and it needs some 353 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 3: help with their homework and so forth. We have to 354 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 3: love in the face of the pain of the tiredness. 355 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 3: Maybe we had a bad day of work, we're feeling anxious. 356 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 3: In the face of the anxiety, Maybe we're upset with 357 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 3: our kid because they've been misbehaving, and so we have 358 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 3: to love in the face of that anger or irritation. 359 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 3: So that's what love is about. That's what we're learning here, 360 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 3: how to love in the face of these obstacles, in 361 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 3: the face of the pain, and the pain is teaching 362 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 3: us how to love. It's teaching us how to love. 363 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 3: In the spirit world, there is no pain, and love 364 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 3: is effortless. But we have to learn how to love intentionally, 365 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 3: and that's what we come here to do. And the 366 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 3: last thing I'll say, it's just another comment here, is 367 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 3: that everything we're learning we come here to learn, and 368 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 3: everything we're learning we're uploading to all. So not only 369 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 3: are we learning it as individual souls, but our mission 370 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 3: here is to keep teaching all, is to give all 371 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 3: everything that we've learned and it uploaded. And so the 372 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 3: mission of learning to love in the face of pain 373 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 3: and everything else that we learn about this existence is 374 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 3: given to all, and all continues to grow and develop 375 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 3: and evolve. Now, some people think that God is perfect 376 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 3: and it doesn't evolve and doesn't grow. That's not at 377 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 3: all true for you. To Jordan, God is evolving. God, 378 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 3: all of consciousness is evolving, growing and continually learning. And 379 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 3: the means by which most of God's learning occurs is 380 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 3: us incarnating in physical worlds, and all the things we 381 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 3: learn become part of the knowledge of God. 382 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about God. A lot of 383 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: people I've interviewed have had near death experiences and they've 384 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: seen whoever the person is from their own religion. Some 385 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 2: people just feel this incredible light and it's this unconditional love. 386 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit more through Jordan about 387 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 2: this unconditional love, this light, this God. It's the best word. 388 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, the best way I can describe it is that all. 389 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 3: For use the word all actually because God is a 390 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 3: kind of limited word. So like we have this picture 391 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 3: of some little guy in a white beard sitting in 392 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 3: a big golden crusted chair or something, and that's not 393 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 3: what it is. All is all of us. We are 394 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 3: all God. Every single conscious entity is part of All, 395 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 3: and is part of God. And that's why when we 396 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 3: learn something, God learns something, that's because we are part 397 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 3: of it. And so when you talk about, you know, 398 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 3: feeling the love of God and feeling the love and 399 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 3: connection to God, what we're talking about is oneness. We're 400 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: talking about feeling the love of all because we're all 401 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 3: connected with love. That's what holds God together, That's what 402 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 3: holds all consciousness together, and in fact, everything, the conscience creates, 403 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 3: all the world's, all the physical, everything is held together 404 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 3: with the gravity of love. So when we're feeling the 405 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 3: love of God, we're feeling that oneness, that deep connection 406 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,479 Speaker 3: to all, and the love that holds it all together, 407 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 3: holds all of us together and unites us and connects 408 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 3: us as one. So it's a little different than in 409 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 3: my understanding from Jordan's, a little different from God is 410 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 3: an entity personality that showers love out. But Jordan's understanding, 411 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 3: what he's taught me is that we are all God, 412 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 3: and the love we experience is the love of connectedness 413 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 3: to all and everything that exists, and that love is 414 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 3: something shared as opposed to showered on us, if that 415 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 3: makes sense. It's something that we all share and experience 416 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 3: together as opposed to an entity, showers us with love. 417 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: Thank you for that. I want to read just a 418 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 2: few sentences that I read in your book because it 419 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 2: deals with doubt. You're ed, I'm exhausted. I blow out 420 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 2: the candle. I want to believe everything I've heard, but 421 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 2: I hate self deception. It's a response I inherited from 422 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 2: my father, a man who despised the ways people lie 423 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 2: to themselves to justify their needs and actions. But suddenly 424 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 2: it's clear I will have to live with that remembered 425 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: content in order to keep listening. If I want to 426 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 2: open the channel so my boy can talk to me, 427 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 2: then I'll also have to live with a doubt, perhaps 428 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 2: even ridicule, Matt. So many people we doubt our own thoughts. 429 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 2: We worry about what other people have to say about 430 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 2: what we're doing. What would you say that helped. 431 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 3: You move through that? 432 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 2: You know what, I've got a backbone to share this, 433 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 2: this is reality and to push through that doubt. 434 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that what you say is really important 435 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 3: about pushing through because it's not a matter of certainty. 436 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 3: And actually, some people clients of mine that I've taught 437 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 3: how to channel, and it resisted because they say, I'm 438 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 3: only going to channel if I have no doubt, if 439 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 3: I have certainty, and then they don't. They don't channel 440 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,959 Speaker 3: even though they could, even though they have, because they 441 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 3: are insisting on certainty in order to reach out across 442 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 3: the veil and reach the loved ones on the other side. 443 00:26:58,359 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 3: So if we're going to say I have to have 444 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 3: certain need to do this, and most of us will 445 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 3: not be able to do. 446 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: It, we need to take a quick break, and I 447 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 2: promise we'll pick up right where we left off. 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Always free to search, and if 486 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 6: you decide to upgrade to our amazing new features, use 487 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 6: promo code George for a great discount. Paranormal Date dot com. 488 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 6: You are not alone. 489 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 8: Before The art Belvault has classic audio waiting for you. 490 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 2: Now. 491 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 3: Go to Coast to coastam dot com for details. 492 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: Every eight minutes, the American Red Cross brings help and 493 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 2: hope to people in need. Thanks to the support of 494 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 2: everyday heroes like you, the Red Cross is able to 495 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 2: respond to disasters big and small, support military families, help 496 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: ensure that blood is available when needed, and teach life 497 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: saving skills like CPR and first Aid. Be a hero 498 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 2: donate today, visit Redcross dot org or call one eight 499 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 2: hundred Red Cross. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. 500 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,959 Speaker 2: I'm Sander Champlain, and we're with doctor Matthew McKay, author 501 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: of the book Seeking Jordan. How I learned the truth 502 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 2: about death and the invisible Universe. I had just asked 503 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 2: him about doubt. Very difficult to think. Are these thoughts 504 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 2: coming in my mind? Are they mine? Or are they 505 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: really from someone in the afterlife. So as we continue on, 506 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 2: we'll talk about pushing through doubt, We'll talk about grief, 507 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 2: and he'll share with us his method of connecting to 508 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: loved ones and even our soul. 509 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 3: Clients of mine that I've taught how to channel, and 510 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,479 Speaker 3: I'm resisted because they say, I'm only going to channel 511 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,719 Speaker 3: if I have no doubt, if I have certainty, And 512 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 3: then they don't. They don't channel even though they could, 513 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 3: even though they have because they are insisting on certainty 514 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 3: in order to reach out across the veil and reach 515 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 3: the loved ones on the other side. So if we're 516 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 3: going to say I have to have uncertainty to do this, 517 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 3: then most of us will not be able to do it. 518 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 3: But it's just what you said. It's pushing through the doubt, 519 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 3: and doubt shows up for me still. I have moments 520 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 3: where the thought occurs to me, is this real? Or 521 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 3: something Jordan says makes me wondering, what would you just say? 522 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 3: Does that make sense? And oftentimes even just starting the process, 523 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 3: I have to start with the awareness that I have 524 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 3: fear that something might happen that might lead me to 525 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 3: believe that it's not true, so that doubt is there. 526 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 3: I've been doing this now for fifteen years. I would 527 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 3: say the doubt has diminished somewhat, but it still shows up. 528 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 3: And so every time I start, I usually channel with 529 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 3: Jordan once a week. Every time I start to channel, 530 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 3: I can feel a little at that edge of anxiety 531 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 3: that what if something happens here that makes me wonder 532 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 3: if this is true? And there's a little bit of doubt, 533 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 3: And so I have to push through it because my 534 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 3: biggest value is the love between Jordan and myself and 535 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 3: enact that and be part of that and engage with 536 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 3: him with love. That's my biggest value. And I have 537 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 3: to do that even though sometimes there's some doubt. 538 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: It's so tough being human. I tell you, we all 539 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: know this. We have this voice in our head that's 540 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 2: not our biggest champion. I know sometimes there's that divine 541 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 2: guidance and that self with a big ass, our soul self. 542 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 2: But why do we believe the voice of this negativity 543 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 2: when we look at the mirror and mine shows the 544 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: extra pounds and the gray hair and all that and 545 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 2: is not my best friend. Yet we believe it for 546 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 2: so many other things. So push through that doubt. I 547 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 2: love that I do. 548 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 3: Remember when I said love in the face of pain. 549 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 3: See if we're going to engage in a loving way 550 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 3: with souls on the other side and maintain that relationship 551 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 3: and send love back and forth. We have to do 552 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 3: it in the face of pain here, and the pain 553 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 3: is doubt an uncertainty, and pain is missing that person 554 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 3: and grieving, and then when we try to make contact, 555 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 3: it brings up the grief. So this is another example. 556 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 3: In this case, it's loving across the veil that we 557 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 3: have to hear. We have to do it in the 558 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 3: face of pain and doubt is one of those difficult things. 559 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 2: Agreed, If you wouldn't mind share some tools about how 560 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 2: we can channel, as you call it, with our loved ones, 561 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: because Matt, who's listening right now, could be experiencing some 562 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 2: of the worst grief imaginable, and we want to believe. 563 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 2: How would we start If you wouldn't mind, we'd love 564 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: to learn. 565 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was one other thing I wanted to say 566 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 3: about God and the afterlife. There is no judgment in 567 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 3: the afterlife. God doesn't judge, or that all doesn't judge. 568 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 3: This whole idea that we have to live this life 569 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 3: and we're going to be judged at the end of 570 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 3: it and bad go to hell and then we're to 571 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 3: go to have it's completely false and Jordan's just said 572 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 3: that over and over and over again. It's false. There 573 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 3: is no judgment in the afterlife. All we do is 574 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 3: go there and learn from the life we just lived. 575 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 3: We're not judged, we're not ridiculed, we're not examined, we're 576 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 3: not turned back because of the things we did. So 577 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 3: I just want to really emphasize that that that's one 578 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 3: of the other really important things about the afterlife. It's 579 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 3: a place of love and zero judgment, and there are 580 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 3: no places where people go to and suffer. Okay, how 581 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 3: do I chaml Sorry for that little digression, but it's perfect. 582 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 2: We needed to hear it. 583 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 3: I would encourage people to just select a place that 584 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 3: you feel safe and secure. I actually usually channel right 585 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,879 Speaker 3: here in this room, right at this desk and such 586 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 3: my childhood desk that my folks gave me when I 587 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 3: was eleven. Find something that makes the place that you 588 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 3: feel safe and set that up as a kind of 589 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 3: a ritual for where you'll channel. Then you need to 590 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 3: clarify the spiritual address of where you're sending your communications 591 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 3: to the afterlife. You can just be aware of the 592 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 3: soul you're trying to communicate. By the way you can 593 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 3: channel yourself. You can channel your own soul energy in 594 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 3: the afterlife, and that could be an address you send communications, 595 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 3: you can channel to guides and so anyway, just be 596 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 3: clear on the address, who is it, what entity are 597 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 3: you seeking to communicate with. I think it's sometimes it's 598 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 3: very helpful in terms of communicating to the souls who 599 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 3: we knew in life and have died. Is to have 600 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 3: a little talentman, something that connects us to a physical object, 601 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 3: something that maybe they gave us, something that belonged to them. 602 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 3: I use Jordan. I use actually this business card that 603 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 3: he had that says Jordan McKay that the CEO of 604 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 3: Mega Technology there was no Mega Technology. He used this 605 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 3: to get into trade shows when he was in high school. 606 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 3: But I keep the card because it just reminds me 607 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 3: of his humor. And it's just the quality of a 608 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 3: person to create a person. And that's my talents. But 609 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 3: you find one of your own and get something that's 610 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 3: nexts you to that person in a physical way. It 611 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 3: really is helpful. For eye fixation. Just use a candle, 612 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 3: just something that holds your attention. You can look at it, 613 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 3: but it could be anything that could be a mandala 614 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 3: or some sort of sea polish stone or Celtic not whatever. 615 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 3: But find something you can put your attention on and 616 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 3: then take a breath, and as you exhale, now we're 617 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 3: going to go into the kind of a symbol of 618 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 3: a pasta meditation. As you exil, just form the intention 619 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 3: to open the channel. Bring all tension down to the diaphragm. 620 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 3: Focus on the diaphragm. It's a center of breath, center 621 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 3: of life. On each outbreath. Count So first out breath, 622 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,919 Speaker 3: one second, but two, three, four, keep counting to ten. 623 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 3: If you're starting to feel receptive and open, you can 624 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 3: start moving into channeling. If not, to another round of ten. 625 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 3: So it's just a simple meditation where we attend to 626 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 3: the breath. When there's a thought that comes up, let 627 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 3: the thought go, go back to the breath, and just 628 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 3: count each outbreath, each out there one, two, three, letting 629 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 3: go of thoughts and returning to the breath. So it's 630 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 3: very very simple meditation, and it's okay when thoughts show up, 631 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 3: but just leave the thought as soon as you notice 632 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,399 Speaker 3: it and get back to the breath. So that gets 633 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 3: us into a kind of a receptive state. And then meanwhile, 634 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 3: while you're doing the meditation, just keep your eyes fixed 635 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 3: on the candle. What Ralph taught me, is this a 636 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 3: little divination to add to this? And what you do 637 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 3: is you visualize at worb just above your head, maybe 638 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 3: six inches above your head, color the sun, and just 639 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 3: visualize it there and then see it elongating into a 640 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 3: tube like connection to the soul you're trying to reach. 641 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 3: And this is the channel opening we visualize it or 642 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 3: and now we just visualize the channel opening all the 643 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,320 Speaker 3: way to that soul. And in fact, that's exactly what happens, 644 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 3: because every soul in the afterlife who we love is 645 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 3: just a thought of way, since we think about them, 646 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 3: it opens the channel. And so the channel is opening 647 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 3: as we are thinking about with love, we're thinking about 648 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 3: that soul that we want to connect to, and so 649 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 3: the channel is now open. I think it's really important 650 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 3: is to make sure that the communications are written down. 651 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 3: So get it in a notebook or whatever. But you 652 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 3: have to paper and have a writing implement and write 653 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 3: your question down, write your first question down, and then wait. 654 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 3: The answer will show up in your mind. But the 655 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 3: answer is being channeled or it's being communicated telepathically, so 656 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 3: just wait and it can come in different ways. Sometimes 657 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 3: it comes as a big download. Just a huge download. 658 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 3: It doesn't even words just knowing. Sometimes it comes as 659 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 3: an image or a picture. Sometimes it comes as a 660 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 3: few distinct words, you're very succinct. Sometimes it comes as 661 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 3: a phrase, and then you have to wait for the 662 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 3: phrase to turn into a whole sentence, and then you 663 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 3: may wait a little bit for the next sentence, and 664 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 3: sometimes it comes slowly. So it comes in all different ways, 665 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 3: and it's okay. Every way is fine. If it comes 666 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 3: as a picture or just knowing, then you have to 667 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 3: find words to describe the knowing or the picture. But 668 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 3: in every case, write down what you get, whether it's 669 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 3: just a few words, very very compressed information, or in 670 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 3: some cases it's many, many sentences, and just stay with 671 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 3: it until it stops. Stay with it until the communication stops, 672 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 3: and then you write down the next question. And the 673 00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 3: other thing is the act of writing. Watching that on 674 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,839 Speaker 3: the page is part of channeling because it actually puts 675 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 3: us in a very receptive state. Literally watching the ink 676 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,399 Speaker 3: form on the page puts us in very recept state. 677 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 3: So that's why it's so important in my view to 678 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 3: write down the questions and the answers that come down. 679 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 3: The other reason you want to write down the answers 680 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 3: is you want to have a record to look back 681 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 3: on later. I have lots of things that Jordan has 682 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 3: said to me and I'll go back years later just 683 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 3: read them and go, oh my god, I forgot that 684 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 3: and that's important and that actually happens to me all 685 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 3: the time. So having the record helps preserve the learning 686 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 3: that you're getting. And you can ask anything. You can 687 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 3: ask how that soul is, what they're doing. At one 688 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 3: point I asked Jordan if he incarnated, he had incarnated 689 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 3: as a little girl, and he could tell me some 690 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 3: things about that life if I was curious. But you 691 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 3: can ask about what's happening with the soul right now, 692 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 3: what they're learning in the afterlife. Jordan's talked a lot 693 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 3: about that. He's learning a lot about how to influence people, 694 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 3: how to influence people to see things in new ways. Also, 695 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 3: you can ask about what is going on up there, 696 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 3: what is the afterlife like. Also you could ask advice 697 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 3: for your own life. These souls are very wise. Every 698 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 3: soul has had many, many lives, and they have the 699 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 3: benefit of wisdom that we've forgotten. When they come here, 700 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 3: we leave that behind as part of the amnesia of life. 701 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 3: So they have all this wisdom, so we can ask 702 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 3: their advice. I Jordan about advice about everything about his sister. 703 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 3: How should I respond to this or that? I asked 704 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 3: him work problems. I asked his advice. While I'm doing 705 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 3: a psychotherapy session, I'm feeling stuck, what do I do now? 706 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 3: And he speaks up and usually it's something that didn't 707 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 3: occur to me. And so you can ask for advice. 708 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 3: We can ask for the nature of reality that can 709 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 3: help let us form a new or a more accurate 710 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 3: cosmology of how things really are and why we're here, 711 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 3: and we could ask about them and what's going on 712 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 3: for them. I think it is important though, in these 713 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 3: communications to convey love to that soul, to send them 714 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 3: love in whatever form, because they need our love just 715 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 3: like we need their love. It enhances their existence. So 716 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 3: sending love, I think is an important part of channeling 717 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 3: when we're channeling love on something, So that's basically it. 718 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 3: It's pretty much as simple as that. And after furious silence, 719 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 3: when you finish one question, you can just write another 720 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:20,959 Speaker 3: one again. 721 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 2: Let's go for our last break, and there's more to 722 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 2: say from doctor Matthew McKay. We'll be right back. You're 723 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 2: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and 724 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 2: Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast Network. 725 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 6: Looking for that certain someone who shares your interests in UFOs, ghosts, Bigfoot, 726 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 6: conspiracy theories, and the paranormal, look no further than paranormal 727 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 6: date dot com the Unique side for like minded people. 728 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 6: If you like the senior crowd, try paranormal date dot 729 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 6: com forward slash Seniors to meet like minded people that 730 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 6: are sixty plus. It all depends on what you prefer. 731 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 6: Paranormal Date dot com is great for everyone. You can 732 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 6: also tap into members that are sixty plus at paranormal 733 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 6: Date dot com Forward slash Seniors. Enjoy your search have 734 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 6: some fun at paranormal date dot com. 735 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 3: The best afterlife information you can get. 736 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 2: Well your own mom. 737 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 4: Shades of the Afterlife with. 738 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:34,359 Speaker 5: Sandra Champlain. 739 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: And now more Sandra on the iHeartRadio and Coach to 740 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: Coach dam Paranormal Podcast Network. 741 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,280 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain 742 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 2: and we've been listening to professor and psychotherapist, doctor Matthew 743 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 2: McKay on how he channels his son Jordan through writing 744 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 2: if you're anything like me, this is an episode we 745 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 2: want to listen to again with the notebook handy. As 746 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 2: we move on, he's speaking about love and I have 747 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 2: some more questions for him about this channeling process, and 748 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,880 Speaker 2: then we also get into the very important topic of grief, 749 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 2: so let's continue. 750 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 3: I think it is important, though, in these communications to 751 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 3: convey love to that's so to send them love in 752 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 3: whatever form, because they need our love just like we 753 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 3: need their love. It enhances their existence. So sending love, 754 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 3: I think is an important part of channeling. When we're 755 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,320 Speaker 3: channeling love on something the other side. Well, that's basically 756 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,800 Speaker 3: it's pretty much as simple as that. And after purious silence, 757 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 3: when you finish one quest I should you can just 758 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:01,760 Speaker 3: write another one. 759 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 2: That a couple of things that came to mind. One. 760 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 2: I think it's great writing it down because I know, 761 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 2: if I want to talk to my dad, I'll start, hey, Dad, 762 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, it's what are we 763 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 2: going to have for dinner tonight? 764 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,240 Speaker 3: Exactly a lot of distractions. Yes, that's a good point. 765 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're writing it down. When mister or missus, 766 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 2: doubt does creep in, though, something comes out of the 767 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 2: pen and the mind starts to analyze and think, oh, 768 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,360 Speaker 2: that's crazy, I just made it up. Do we go 769 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,760 Speaker 2: back to the candle? Do we go back to taking 770 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 2: a few breaths? Thank you doubt for sharing. But we're 771 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 2: going to keep going with this push through that. 772 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just keep going, Just keep going. Sometimes he 773 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,799 Speaker 3: says something. Jordan says a lot of things to me 774 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 3: that haven't occurred to me before, which is one of 775 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 3: the ways I feel clear about the authenticity of this communication. 776 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 3: But I sometimes you'll say something on go, what is that? 777 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,240 Speaker 3: But I just keep going. I just stay with the process. 778 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,359 Speaker 3: The next question or I asked him to clarify it, 779 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 3: or I'll even mentioned to him, boy, I'm feeling a 780 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 3: lot of uncertainty, and so he'll just respond to that 781 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,719 Speaker 3: at some way, so I bring it into the conversation. 782 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 3: But I think it's important to just keep going, don't 783 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 3: give up when doubt shows up, don't stop, stay with it. 784 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,359 Speaker 2: I remember when I wrote my book, I had a 785 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,360 Speaker 2: writing coach and she says, just let it all flow. 786 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 2: Let it all flow. The time to analyze it is 787 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 2: after after you got your stories out. And I think 788 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 2: two when we do the channel in writing don't write 789 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 2: a sentence and read a sentence. Write a sentence, read 790 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,320 Speaker 2: a sentence. Maybe just be in that flow, be open 791 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:47,320 Speaker 2: and experiment with it. I also think, Matt, that it's important. 792 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,760 Speaker 2: I know you say you work with Jordan every week. 793 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 2: There's so many people, and myself included, we want immediate results. 794 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 2: We want maybe the lights to flicker on and off 795 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 2: or something so obvious it takes something from us. I 796 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 2: think it's not that they can't give us good signs, 797 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 2: because they can, but to open up that relationship and 798 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,960 Speaker 2: keep it going. So would it makes sense to make 799 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 2: a date with our loved ones and keep that journal 800 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 2: And today's date is such and such. How often did 801 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 2: you channel with Jordan when you started. 802 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,320 Speaker 3: I can't remember. I would channel with him fairly often, 803 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,839 Speaker 3: but it might have been about the same interval now 804 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 3: as once a week, I would say. And so over 805 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 3: the course of fifteen years, I've had hundreds of communications, 806 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 3: and I've been so blessed you from him, And so 807 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 3: I don't think there's any rule about this, but I 808 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,760 Speaker 3: do think that people should try to do it often 809 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 3: enough if they stay connected. It's the same thing when 810 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 3: you're any loved one. You have to talk to them periodically, 811 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,359 Speaker 3: and that's what feeds the relationship. And you talk to them, 812 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,959 Speaker 3: you connect, You find out what's going on with them, 813 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,279 Speaker 3: They find out what's going on with you, and through 814 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,879 Speaker 3: that process, love flows between you. And I think it's 815 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 3: exactly the same thing with loved ones in the affli 816 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,400 Speaker 3: and Jordan has been so clear about this, I guess 817 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 3: I want to say this that relationships always live. It 818 00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,759 Speaker 3: doesn't matter if that person dies, the relationship lives. That 819 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 3: person is just a thought away. They love us, and 820 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:32,719 Speaker 3: the love is still living, still active, still flourishing. And 821 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 3: that's true regardless of whether we connect to them or not, 822 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,719 Speaker 3: whether we channel or not. But when we channel, we 823 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 3: get to act on that love ourselves and we get 824 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,759 Speaker 3: to bathe in the love. We get to feel the love, 825 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,480 Speaker 3: which is such a beautiful thing. That's one of the 826 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 3: things that is so wonderful for me there. It doesn't 827 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,880 Speaker 3: happen to every time I channel, but there are moments 828 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,319 Speaker 3: when I just feel Jordan's love all through me and 829 00:48:55,400 --> 00:49:00,360 Speaker 3: I feel my love for him inside my body, and 830 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,880 Speaker 3: it's just such a beautiful moment. And that's one of 831 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,799 Speaker 3: the rewards of channeling, is feeling that love as an 832 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 3: act of living, experience beautiful words. 833 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 2: I know personally grief can come on like waves, and 834 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 2: all the investigating I've done really has helped with the grief, 835 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,799 Speaker 2: but the grief is still there. So if we're in 836 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 2: one of those waves of grief, do we wait till 837 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 2: another time to do it? Push through it, include our 838 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,200 Speaker 2: loved one in it. Any words on grief. 839 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:39,000 Speaker 3: All emotions are waves, and interestingly, some resources shows the 840 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,960 Speaker 3: average emotion lasts less than seven minutes, even grief itself. 841 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,720 Speaker 3: Now there'll be another wave, but all emotions come as waves, 842 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,920 Speaker 3: and to not be afraid of them when that wave comes, 843 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 3: allow it to ride it. And it's also you mentioned 844 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 3: one choice we have when that grief shows up is 845 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 3: to turn it into communication, to open the channel during 846 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 3: a period of grief. And I think sometimes there's complicated 847 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 3: things about grief, and sometimes grief actually blocks the channel. 848 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 3: So people are waiting for the loved ones to show 849 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,880 Speaker 3: up or a period to them or give them a sign, 850 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 3: and their grief is so powerful it kind of blocks 851 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,799 Speaker 3: the channel and the loved one can't get through. But 852 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:21,320 Speaker 3: also paradoxically, if you deliberately open the channel during grief, 853 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,920 Speaker 3: I think it can make it. The communication is more intense, 854 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,400 Speaker 3: more beautiful in some ways because now we're just not 855 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,359 Speaker 3: conveying words, we're conveying our deepest feelings, our love on 856 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,239 Speaker 3: the deepest level. So the grief actually is an opportunity 857 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 3: to open the channel with great power and truthfulness. And 858 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,320 Speaker 3: the two things here, one is don't be afraid of 859 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,920 Speaker 3: the wave. Let the wave come. See, people are afraid 860 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,520 Speaker 3: of grief because they think it's a model. Oh the 861 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,040 Speaker 3: grief's gonna come, it's gonna crush me and down I go. 862 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 3: I won't be able to survive. But it doesn't work 863 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,960 Speaker 3: like that. It's just a wave and a wave subsides, 864 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 3: and after a period of time there'll be another way. 865 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 3: The longer out to go be after the person's death. 866 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:06,239 Speaker 3: Usually the waves are further apart, and sometimes they're a 867 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 3: little less intense. But it's also possible years later you 868 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,760 Speaker 3: can have a wave that goes right through the roof 869 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 3: and ride it and allow it and don't be afraid 870 00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,920 Speaker 3: of it, and that wave is actually an opportunity to connect. 871 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,800 Speaker 3: I just want to encourage people to allow the feeling. 872 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 3: On some level, the feeling is beautiful because what makes 873 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,319 Speaker 3: grief so intense is the love, and so when we 874 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,319 Speaker 3: allow the grief, we're also allowing the love. And I 875 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,279 Speaker 3: guess I want to encourage people to do that. And 876 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 3: the last thing I will say about grief is I've 877 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,320 Speaker 3: learned if I could put that way to grieve Jordan's 878 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 3: physical absence, and he'd be thirty nine. Now. I don't 879 00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 3: get to see him grow up. I don't get to 880 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,359 Speaker 3: see him having I mean, he was twenty three when 881 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 3: he died. They're not going to be a family. His 882 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,400 Speaker 3: girlfriend when he died has a new partner and has 883 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,759 Speaker 3: a kid, and I won't get to have any of 884 00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 3: that I or get to observe any of that, or 885 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,279 Speaker 3: be part of any of that. Jordan in his life 886 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,759 Speaker 3: doesn't get to have that. And so I can have 887 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,280 Speaker 3: grief about his physical absence, but I don't have grief 888 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,440 Speaker 3: about he's gone. And I don't have grief about the 889 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,680 Speaker 3: love I have for him has nowhere to go, or 890 00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,600 Speaker 3: the love he has for me I can't receive. That 891 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,880 Speaker 3: is not part of the grief. The grief is just 892 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,040 Speaker 3: limited to, Oh, his physical presence is not here, but 893 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,439 Speaker 3: Jordan is here. Jordan is with me, and he says 894 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,560 Speaker 3: that to me all the time. Bill Tarious, I say 895 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,880 Speaker 3: it all the time. He's done. I am with you. 896 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,960 Speaker 3: I am with you, and he is. So the grief 897 00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 3: is limited when we start really communicating and connecting, limited 898 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,000 Speaker 3: to just the loss of that physical manifestation of that soul. 899 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,719 Speaker 2: Beautiful words. I spoke with a mom you may know her, 900 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:51,319 Speaker 2: Maria pay, whose two sons were murdered by her ex 901 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,640 Speaker 2: husband and then he killed himself, and she said, when 902 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,759 Speaker 2: those waves of grief come, I think of a good 903 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,800 Speaker 2: memory with my boys, that love, and then I start 904 00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 2: talking to them. So that's her way in and then 905 00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:09,839 Speaker 2: really touched my heart. Matt, any more words you wish 906 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:10,400 Speaker 2: to share? 907 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,239 Speaker 3: Jordan asked me to say. When I have an opportunity 908 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,920 Speaker 3: to tell a little bit about history and us, is 909 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:23,319 Speaker 3: that He just says, Remember, you will be received, you 910 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,480 Speaker 3: will be cared for, and you will be loved. When 911 00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,840 Speaker 3: you die, he says, the dark door will open and 912 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,839 Speaker 3: the light of love take you. So you don't have 913 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,440 Speaker 3: to be afraid of death. And also we don't have 914 00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,760 Speaker 3: to be afraid of the impermanence. Here where loved ones 915 00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,759 Speaker 3: appear to die, the dark door opens and the light 916 00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:49,480 Speaker 3: of love has taken them in and will take us. 917 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:51,320 Speaker 3: So enjoyed being with you, son. 918 00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,000 Speaker 2: And thank you to doctor Matthew McKay, author of the 919 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,760 Speaker 2: book Seeking Jordan, how I learned the truth about death 920 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:03,960 Speaker 2: and the Invisible Universe. I hope you give doctor Matt's 921 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,360 Speaker 2: channeling a try. Whether you call it automatic writing or 922 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:13,360 Speaker 2: inspired writing, it's all dealing with the same tools to connect. 923 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,960 Speaker 2: Our loved ones are with us, and they work with 924 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,759 Speaker 2: us in such subtle ways, and sometimes we just need 925 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,040 Speaker 2: to quiet that busy mind, to let the floodgates open. 926 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,279 Speaker 2: That little voice of doubt will always be there for us. 927 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,799 Speaker 2: But the more we do this, the more we will 928 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,719 Speaker 2: be convinced that it is our loved ones speaking. I 929 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,640 Speaker 2: came across a few quotes today that I want to 930 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,760 Speaker 2: share with you, not about the afterlife, but about living life. 931 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,200 Speaker 2: Often it's very hard to take the first step in 932 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,000 Speaker 2: the direction of our dreams, and it may be to 933 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,240 Speaker 2: do the practice doctor mackay told us about today. William 934 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,880 Speaker 2: shed said a ship in a harbor is safe, but 935 00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,840 Speaker 2: that is not what ships are built for. Donald Walsh 936 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,080 Speaker 2: said life begins at the end of your comfort zone. 937 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,440 Speaker 2: My friend, it is so difficult being a human being. 938 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,799 Speaker 2: But when we venture out of the safe harbor and 939 00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,480 Speaker 2: we have our eyes focused on a goal, miracles happen. 940 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:20,880 Speaker 2: You can fill the sales with gratitude and kindness and 941 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 2: being of service to others. I think that's the recipe 942 00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,120 Speaker 2: for a good life. As a reminder, my home base 943 00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 2: is we Don't Die dot com. If you enter your 944 00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,080 Speaker 2: name and your email address on that front page down 945 00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,520 Speaker 2: at the bottom, you get a free copy of my book. 946 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,640 Speaker 2: Chapter ten is how to Survive Grief. I do hope 947 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,759 Speaker 2: you take me up on that. It's so powerful. We 948 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,640 Speaker 2: also offer our free Sunday gathering of course with medium 949 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:53,800 Speaker 2: demonstration included wonderful classes, demonstrations, events, and so much more. 950 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,320 Speaker 2: I'm Sandra Champlain and from the bottom of my heart, 951 00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,160 Speaker 2: thank you for listening too Shades of the Afterlife on 952 00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 953 00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,960 Speaker 1: And if you liked this episode of Shades of the Afterlife, 954 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,400 Speaker 1: wait until you hear the next one. Thank you for 955 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,759 Speaker 1: listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 956 00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:23,960 Speaker 1: Podcast Network.