1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Robert and Joe here. Today we've got 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: something a little bit different to share with you. It 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: is a new edition of the Smart Talks podcast series, 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: which is produced in partnership with IBM. This season of 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: Smart Talks with IBM is all about new creators, the developers, 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: data scientists, c t o s, and other visionaries creatively 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: applying technology and business to drive change. They use their 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: knowledge and creativity to develop better ways of working, no 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: matter the industry. Join hosts from your favorite Pushkin Industries 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: podcast as they use their expertise to deepen these conversations. 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell will guide you through this season as your 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: host to provide his thoughts and analysis along the way. 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: Look out for new episodes of Smart Talks with IBM 14 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: every month on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. And learn more at 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: IBM dot com slash smart Talks. Hello, Hello, Welcome to 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: Smart Talks with IBM, a podcast from Bushkin Industries, I 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and IBM. I'm Malcolm Glabo. This season, we're 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: talking to the new creators, the developers, data scientists, c 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: t o s, and other visionaries who are creatively applying 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: technology and business to drive change. Channeling their knowledge and expertise, 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: they are developing more creative and effective solutions, no matter 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: the industry. On the final episode of the season, our 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: guest is NASA astronaut and retired Army Colonel Mark Bandahi. 25 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: Mark holds the record for the longest single space flight 26 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: undertaken by an American. He spent three hundred and fifty 27 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: five days in orbit on the International Space Station, returning 28 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: to Earth on March thirtieth two. During his nearly year 29 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: long stay in space, Mark conducted scientific experiments on behalf 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: of NASA, including research where he himself was the test subject. 31 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: By documenting the physiological changes he went through, Mark serves 32 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: as an important source of data and understanding the impact 33 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: of extended spaceflight on humans. I spoke with Mark about 34 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: his experience as an astronaut and what he learned from 35 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: living in space for a year. He told me about 36 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: performing research only doable in space, times he felt true fear, 37 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: and how seeing Earth from orbit challenged his personal beliefs 38 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: and led him to become an advocate for mental health 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: and sustainability. Okay, let's get to the interview, So tell 40 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: me a little bit. Did you always want to be 41 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: an astronaut? What? What? What drew you to space in 42 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: the first place. I was always curious about space, largely 43 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: because just trying to get my head wrapped around how 44 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: we fit into the very grandest scheme of things has 45 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: always been interesting to me. But I always thought of 46 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: becoming an astronaut like trying to become Spider Man, Like 47 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: that's just not a realistic idea. It might sound cool, 48 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: but that's like a superhero thing. So when I first 49 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: joined the Army, my company commander, my boss, handed me 50 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: a note because he knew I had a degree in 51 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: in a technical field. That was a message from the 52 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: Army saying that NASA wanted military people with these qualifications 53 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: to apply to the ASTERNAT program. And I looked at 54 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: the list and I had a bunch of them. That 55 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: made me really excited. I thought, that's like, that's a possibility. 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: And then um, when I went to grad school, had 57 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: a lot of different things to possibly study, and it 58 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: showed space physics, and just randomly the Army said, Hey, 59 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: we're starting a new career field called space operations. I 60 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,119 Speaker 1: signed up and got accepted to go into space operations. 61 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: And I ended up getting loaned out to the Aston 62 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: office at NASA to work in the Michig Control Center, which, honestly, 63 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: I love that job so much that I could be 64 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: doing that till and never having been an astro and 65 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: felt like I was super blessed. Was amazing to live 66 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: in history and just talking to the astronauts in space 67 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: helping them solve problems while I'm listening to what the 68 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: flight control team is doing. That's a fantastic job. I 69 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: absolutely loved it. During the three year period that I 70 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: expected to do that, They're hired another class and that 71 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: was That was the first time I decided to apply, 72 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: and largely because my wife said, Mark, come on, you 73 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: gotta try. Because I thought there's no way they would 74 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: ever hire me, so I almost self selected myself out 75 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: of that possibility. So really, I feel very very fortunate. 76 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: I could have very easily not pursued this. I'm very 77 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: happy it worked out, and I'm very happy I did 78 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: pursue it. There's thousands of people that could do this 79 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: job that never got the opportunity and may have done 80 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: a better job than I did. I just somehow got 81 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: the job. Yeah, now you had the record for the 82 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: longest time in space. Right, it's the record for an 83 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: American astronaut for the longest single flight. So Scott Kelly 84 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: flew for through it in forty days continuously, and I 85 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: threw flew for three and fifty five days continuously. What 86 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: is it about you that allows you to do that? 87 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: Like you know, if you I'm I'm I'm gonna say, 88 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: if you put me through the exact same training you 89 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: went through, there's no way I'm spending three days I 90 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: would have I would lose my mind. I think what 91 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do is compare myself between the first flight 92 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: and the second flight. After I came back from the 93 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: first flight, I had no desire to go back. The 94 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,119 Speaker 1: big change for me between the first and second flight 95 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: is I paid a lot more attention to my mental health. 96 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: I got in the habit of meditating every day, and 97 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: I think that helped me not only recognize the value 98 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: of trying to appreciate the present moment and try to 99 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: be curious about the present moment, but it also made 100 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: me more aware of what internal habit patterns I have, 101 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: and it gave me the ability to kind of almost 102 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: be an external observer of those. So that when I 103 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: I could recognize sometimes that hey, you're making up a 104 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: very negative story and that's why you're grumpy right now, 105 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: And that really helped me out with making a mental shift. 106 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about what you're doing when 107 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: you're up there. Why is it important to do various 108 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: kinds of experiments and things in space? Yeah, great question. 109 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: That's a really important question too. So it is a 110 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: national laboratory, and it's it's unique because a lot of 111 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,239 Speaker 1: dominant forces on the ground are not dominant forces in space. 112 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: So you get pretty interesting effects, like when you make 113 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: a flame on the Earth, because of the pressure differentials 114 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: and the fact that the hot combustion products are lighter, 115 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: they will rise up and go away from the flame, 116 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: and that will draw in the auction rich gases that 117 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: keep the flame going. So in space, those combustion gases 118 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,559 Speaker 1: will just make a ball around the source of the fire. 119 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: Turns out that flames in space burn more efficiently and 120 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: at a lower temperature, so there's some potential to have 121 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 1: a cleaner burning combustion engine. But that just gives us 122 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: a more depth of understanding of how these things work. 123 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: It just gives us another way to change some of 124 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: the the variables. Another thing that that we can do 125 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: on the space station is sedimentation. If you take a 126 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: solution over time on the Earth with the heavier items, 127 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: and that solution are going to settle to the bottom. Well, 128 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: in space, there's no preferred direction for those things to 129 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: go in because everything is in this what I like 130 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: to call a free fall that just keeps missing the Earth. 131 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: So we're in a continuous state of freefall. Solutions stay 132 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: very homogeneous. You can do experiments like there's even the 133 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: way we try to simulate the human body with body 134 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: samples and try to understand how things work. In the 135 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: space station, where those things float, it's a closer simulation 136 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: to something being inside the human body. So there's this 137 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: I could go on and on. Clearly there's a whole 138 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: lot of different things that allows us to do. And 139 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: delicate structures, even protein structures that we could never make 140 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: stay together on the ground can stay together in space. 141 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: Oh that's sting. So it just gives you a it's 142 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: like another context for trying to advanced scientific knowledge. It 143 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: just you've you've changed all of kind of the defining 144 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: variables of the experiment. Absolutely, that's it's a very significant thing. Absolutely. 145 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: And then there's also that the idea of what we're 146 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: doing in the space station, not just for science, but 147 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: for human exploration. Because we're putting people in space for 148 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: such a long period of time, we're getting a better 149 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: understanding of how to keep people healthy. We can do 150 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: technology experiments to try to figure out how to get 151 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: things to work for these longer age and space flights 152 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: where we're gonna put people much further away from the 153 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: Earth than I was on my flight. Some of those experiments, 154 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,479 Speaker 1: as were associated with me being a subject of the experiments, 155 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: give me an example of a kind of health care 156 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: related line of research. Sure, I'm very open about the 157 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: fact that I lost eight percent of my bone density. 158 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: That's not typical for somebody at my age and my 159 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: activity level. But as a function of being in space, 160 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: I lost eight percent of my bone density because there's 161 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: no more you don't you're not exercising with any resistance 162 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: at all. Is that? Is that the reason almost true? 163 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: You spend all of your time except for when you're exercising, 164 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: without really needing a skeleton to to to support you, 165 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: because that's why we have a skeleton. When you're in 166 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: a freefall all the time. There's nothing that you have 167 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: to use to resist the ground or to keep you 168 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: standing on the ground. So we have a resistive exercise 169 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: device on the space station that actually it's very interesting. 170 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: It uses vacuum cylinders as the source of the force. 171 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: So when you expand the vacuum cylinder, unlike a spring, 172 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: the vacuum cylinder the force will be constant regardless of 173 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: how far you pull it, whereas with a spring, the 174 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: more you expand the spring, the higher the force gets. 175 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: So that allows us to have kind of what we want. 176 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: But I like to tell school kids, if you imagine 177 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: those vacuum cylinders being attached to one side of a 178 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: seesaw pulling upwards and you on the other side of 179 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: the seesaw pulling upwards, then you can change the mechanical 180 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: advantage by moving where the pivot point is, where the 181 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: folk firm is. And so we have the ability to 182 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: turn a crank and it can adjust the force you 183 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: feel anywhere from twenty pounds to six pounds. But even so, 184 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm stunned though by in the space of a year, 185 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: even given determined efforts on your part to counteract the 186 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: effects of the physiological effects of being in a zero 187 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: gravity atmosphere. Even then, the effect on your body was profound. 188 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: It's a lot, but I lost seven percent on the 189 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: first flight, and I got it all back before the 190 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: second flight, So I fully expect to get it all back. 191 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: It does come back, and with If somebody ever, some 192 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: archaeologists someday ever examined my bones, they would be able 193 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: to tell that I had flung in space, because the 194 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: way that matrix is built is somewhat different. But I 195 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: fully expect all the all the bone density to come back. 196 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: You know, the series we're doing is it's called The 197 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: New Creators, and we're really focused on the role that 198 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: creativity plays in kind of pushing the envelopes of knowledge. 199 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: So I'm just I'm just curious about you up there 200 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: in this strange environment doing what sounds like some pretty 201 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: sophisticated experiments. Can you give me an example over the 202 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: time when you felt your kind of your creativity was 203 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: being tapped in a meaningful way in this experience? Yeah? Interesting. 204 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: I would say there is an experiment called celestial immunity 205 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: that involved us with uh small peatrie dishes that contained 206 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: body uh samples. I don't know if it was a 207 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: solution with some blood or or what or what. But 208 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: I just know they were from various people, elderly and 209 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: young people, and we would go through and use a 210 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: pipette too inoculate them with various things, and then we 211 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: would take these devices, put him in a black box 212 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: to control the carbon dioxide and the temperature, and put 213 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: them in a in a place to let them kind 214 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: of incubate for a while. In the process of doing it, 215 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: I think my creativity came in as I was describing 216 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: the challenges that I realized that the the people who 217 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: designed the experiment might not have realized we run into 218 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: and I was able to to use what I've had 219 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 1: my hands on to to give them advice about ways 220 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: we could change the experiment around. Because those Petra dishes 221 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: didn't have a lid, so they were just held in 222 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: there by surface tension. And so the first time I 223 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: did it, I I put them very slowly into the box. 224 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: I closed the box, couldn't see what they were doing, 225 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: and I had to very gently move them over to 226 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: to the place where they're gonna incubate. And I had 227 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: no idea if I was succeeding or failing so I 228 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: think there was a lot of conversation, a lot of observing, 229 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: a lot of trying to draw on the unique experiences 230 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: I'm exposed to to help out them. And it turned 231 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: out I was an orbit long enough that the second 232 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: iteration that came up, and they had, among other things, 233 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: that had put a thin sheet of flexible plastic on top. 234 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: So instead of having to try to contain everything there, 235 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: we just had to puncture it with a needle and 236 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: add the add the inoculation that way, instead, tell me 237 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: a little bit more about that experiment that that celestial 238 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: immunity investigation. By the way, that's like the best name 239 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: ever for a science experiment. Um, I agree, it sounds 240 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: like Jesus is involved in somewhere. I agree, no wrong, 241 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: But what was that experiment about trying to trying to 242 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: trying to investigate. We're trying to understand how the human 243 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: immune system reacts to different situations. So again, I think 244 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: it's a great experiment to highlight because a better understanding 245 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: of the human immune system will help out everybody. So 246 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: on Earth, we might do an experiment where we have 247 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: a variety of of different cell samples that were exposing 248 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: to various pathogens and studying them and hear, what we're 249 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: doing is repeating the experiment under a radically different set 250 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: of of conditions and in the hopes that changing the 251 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: parameters of the experiment exposed some new bit of knowledge 252 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: or yes, And I don't know if that's been successful 253 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: or not, but we do know. We do know that 254 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: there are viruses that are more virulent in space for 255 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: some reason. We don't understand why the biological things react differently. 256 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: What was the most fun thing you did? Uh? One 257 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: of my crewmates, Caleb Baron. For some reason that two 258 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: of us decided we're going to try to do some 259 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: stunts together. So we we literally would just have our 260 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: feet hooked underneath some handrails and push off towards each 261 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: other and then do something like get curl up, hit 262 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: our hands down low. It causes to each spin um 263 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: simultaneously n directions to a couple of backflips and then land. 264 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: And it took a lot of attempts before we actually 265 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: made it look like something was in sync. I've never 266 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: once done a backflip in my life, but I've done 267 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: four in a row before I hit my head on 268 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: something on the Space station Uh, we grew hatch chili peppers. Uh. 269 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: I recently got a certificate from New Mexico that said, 270 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: congratulations your hatstronaut. So I'm proud to have that title. 271 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: The thought we didn't cook with them. We of course 272 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: it was science, so we had to ship most of 273 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: them back to the ground frozen carefully. But they were 274 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: very nice about letting us have some of the chili peppers, 275 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: and they warned us that the stress response to the 276 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: space environment that these peppers have, they think would be 277 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: that they're more potent. And I think they were more potent. 278 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: They were shockingly spicy. Yessa could sell those chili peppers 279 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: to some fancy restaurant and it could be, you know, celestially, 280 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: you know, celestial pepper soup or something. You know, what 281 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: a great name for a dish. I'm sure that celestial 282 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: foods will be the culinary trend of the future pretty soon. 283 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: Will all be paying extra for specially vegetables grown in space. 284 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: Forget farm to table, try orbit to table. Kidding aside, 285 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: there was one thing I made sure to ask Mark. 286 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to know more about the relationship between the 287 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: astronauts and space and the NASA team on the ground. 288 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: New technologies are reshaping the way astronauts communicate with their 289 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: counterparts on Earth. IBM, for example, is testing edge computing 290 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: solutions on board the space station to try and reduce 291 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: the time it takes to analyze and send data. But 292 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: what does this information flow mean for an astronaut's day 293 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: to day life and what happens if there's an emergency? 294 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: I asked Mark for more details. Tell me a little 295 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: bit about the role that technology plays in UM in 296 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: all of this. I mean, you're you're doing these experiments, 297 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: you're actively learning in this new environment. UM, what's happening 298 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: with the data? How are you making sense of it? 299 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: Processing it? Tell me about that angle on the on 300 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: your work. The astronauts live in the space station. The 301 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: ground control team is controlling the space station, so that 302 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: data flow that's telemetry from the space station and the 303 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: commanding to the space station is happening just to actually 304 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: get the thing to work, to get the lab to work, 305 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: to make it if we want to change the temperature, 306 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: we could we could go ahead and go deep into 307 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: the software we've got on board that we're trained to 308 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: use in case we lose communications with the ground. But 309 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: if we even want to change the temperature, we just 310 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: call the ground control team and say, hey, one of 311 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: our crew members feels a little cold. We all a 312 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: red we should raise the temperature by a degree or something. 313 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: They would change it. So they're in charge. We live 314 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: there and we take we take care of everything that 315 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: we possibly can. So data transfer is crucial to the 316 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: way we operate the space station today. In your time 317 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: up there, did you have any kind of moments of crisis? 318 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: Did you ever lose communication with Houston? Two times we 319 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: lost out of control. I think we got to the 320 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: point where they told us to start executing the procedure 321 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: and then we're able to call us off, or they 322 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: warned us that it's possible you could lose you know, 323 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: maybe ten minutes from now, there's a risk of you 324 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: losing communications. For example. What never felt scary to me 325 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: and I don't. I think the reason it didn't feel 326 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: scary is because when we do that on the ground 327 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: for training, when we do it in a simulation, the 328 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: simulation is much harder because in space, the ground was 329 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: trying to help as much as possible. But on the ground, 330 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: they give you a scenario where you call the ground, 331 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: you get no response. Every everything is as bad as possible. 332 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: So it was to me it felt just like a simulation, 333 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: but where the trainers were willing to give us more 334 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: help than they were willing to give us on the ground. 335 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: So and the culture that I got trained in and 336 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: that's worked for me really, really well, is one that says, 337 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: slow way down. If you're on an emergency on the 338 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: space station, unless it's an amumonia leak. In all other cases, 339 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: slow way down because the worst thing you canna do 340 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: is go so fast that you make a mistake and 341 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: cause problems. But otherwise it's a very safe system. When 342 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: I was leading newer crew members, I tried to encourage 343 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: them to have a culture where if they had any confusion, 344 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: that they would feel comfortable stopping everybody and say, hey, 345 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: why are we going down this path that doesn't make 346 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: sense to me, because that could be the one question 347 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: that gets us to stay on the correct path. You 348 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: said you didn't get scared in that moment. Do you 349 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: ever get scared? Mark? Oh? Yeah, I definitely get scared. 350 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: I don't believe you. To give you an example, my 351 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: experience of returning to Earth is everything's really interesting while 352 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: you're going through the atmosphere and you're in a ball 353 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: of flame and the heat shields melting away. You can 354 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: see things that are melting away going past the window. 355 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: That's interesting. But then when there's nothing to pay attention 356 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: to while you're falling towards the earth, and this time 357 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: you know you're in a trajectory that will result in 358 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: you hitting the earth with nothing to do except wait 359 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: for the parachute to open for what I think was 360 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: probably a couple of very long minutes, and nobody was 361 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: having a conversation. We're just all quietly waiting to find 362 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: out if we're gonna live and gonna die. I didn't 363 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: realize how afraid I was that it wasn't gonna work 364 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: until the parachute actually opened, and how giddily overjoyed I 365 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: felt when when it actually opened, because I was just like, 366 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna live. So yeah, I was scared, And again 367 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: I didn't realize it until after the fact. Yeah. Yeah, Um, 368 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: let's talk You mentioned at the beginning you're sort of 369 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: interest in mental health. Let's talk about that a little bit. 370 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: You know, you're you went through an experience which is 371 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: exceedingly difficult and unusual and surely must have taught you 372 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: a great deal about the kind of the challenges of 373 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: maintaining one's mental health. Yeah, it was a good experience, 374 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: but certainly those life skills doesn't matter if you're in 375 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: space or not. Um. I tend to get distracted easily, 376 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: and so practicing trying to stay focused on one thing 377 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: and paying attention and trying to maintain a sense of 378 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: curiosity about something as simple as breathing is I think 379 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,959 Speaker 1: a really good practice to try to to expand your 380 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: ability to stay focused and and actually even find joy 381 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: and relaxation in it. It's it's very reassuring if you 382 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: can get yourself to feel really relaxed no matter what's 383 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: going on, that it's it's it's like you've got this 384 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: island of comfort that you know is just internal to you. 385 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: So I thought that was very powerful. It's not something 386 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: that I how does the skill before my fifties at all. 387 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: And I think meditation has certainly helped the awareness of 388 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: the negative impact that the narratives that I would use 389 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: to fill in the gaps and information I had was 390 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: really powerful for me. And I'll give you an example 391 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: that's associated with space flight. We have a module on 392 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: the space station that's called the PMM. It's like the 393 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: attic of the space station. If you of a task 394 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: that takes for you that they've given you for you 395 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: miss a do part of every activity is typically gathered 396 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: the materials you need and a lot of time. That 397 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: means you go into the p MM. And it's not 398 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: unusual to see somebody's just ankles and feet sticking out 399 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: between bags as they're digging with a flashlight a head 400 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: lamp on trying to get deep into the into the 401 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: depths of these bags that are bungee corded in place. 402 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: And it can be very chaotic when you have to 403 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: get multiple items, and if if you just loosely put 404 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: it underneath the bungee cord and then bump the bungee cord, 405 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: it can disappear very easily. So it can be very frustrating. 406 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: So there was an instance I remember really well where 407 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: I was had already spent twenty minutes trying to find stuff, 408 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: and I still hadn't found the first thing, and I 409 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: was getting mad, and I realized that the reason I 410 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: was getting grumpy was the narrative I had was I 411 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: the ground's going to start thinking of Vanda High is 412 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: one of the slow the slow guys on the space station. 413 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: He always takes longer to do other stuff. But then 414 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: I realized that I didn't know that that was just 415 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: some detail I was adding. And then I thought to myself, 416 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: wait a minute. For all I know, the ground feels 417 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: bad that they didn't give me enough time to do this, 418 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 1: So what do I really All I really knew as 419 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: fact was that I was on the space station and 420 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: my job was to find stuff space hardware in these 421 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: bags that are all bungee corded and floating around, and honestly, 422 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: that was kind of cool, and I had really if 423 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: it took me longer than they expected, then that was 424 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: just a fact. It took longer than I expected. They 425 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: didn't have to be a positive or negative emotional associated that. 426 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: It was just a fact. So instead of as many 427 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: times before I've come out of there feeling angry at 428 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: the world, at the situation, just beating myself about not 429 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: being good enough in my job, I came out being like, well, 430 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: you know, this is kind of cool. It was just 431 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: such a huge shift, And I think over time you 432 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: perform better too when you give yourself a break, like that. 433 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: So I think there's this aspect also about being more 434 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: accepting of yourself, being more curious about it. There's just 435 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: so many things that I think have helped make my 436 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: life easy here and again, by no means am I perfect. 437 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: I This is a continuing process that I'm still working 438 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: on and struggling with. But it helps you to keep 439 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: your kind of perfectionistic and self judgmental side and check absolutely, 440 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: is that the most significant change that you've undergone. No, 441 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: honestly that the most significant change for me was, uh, well, 442 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: the first big thing was when I first got to 443 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: the space station. It was after a very long day 444 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: and I had the next twenty four hours off to 445 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: recover from that. I spent the first ninety minutes the 446 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: first one time around the planet looking out the window 447 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: in awe, and the first thing that struck me was 448 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: how isolated the Earth looked. When you are looking at 449 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: the Earth and in the sun and your eyes are 450 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: adjusted to the sun, it makes the backdrop to the 451 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: Earth space look inky black, like the definition of lack 452 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 1: of light, like it's liquid. So that was shocking to me. 453 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: What do you say shocking? It was shocking because I 454 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: don't think it was like I had never seen something 455 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: that black. It was just like again, I I if 456 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: you can imagine taking a ball and dropping it in 457 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: a in a in a pool of black ink, That's 458 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: that's what it looked like. And I knew it was 459 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: I knew it was emptiness, but it was it just 460 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: there was an emotional impact in that. I think, uh, 461 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 1: I think there's been people that have been it's it 462 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: can be hard to grapple with the sense of the 463 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: Earth being isolated. Later on in the flight, as I 464 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: was getting ready to come home again this is my 465 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: first flight, I felt like I should be going back 466 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: to the Earth with some unique perspective and some type 467 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: of change to me. And I thought, am I blowing this? 468 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: Am I? Like, I don't know what that is. I 469 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: had this incredible sense of smallness. And I say that 470 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: because another thing that struck me looking at the Earth 471 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: was when you look towards the horizon, the atmosphere looks 472 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: like a varnish on a rock. It's like a puddle 473 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: in a parking lot. It just looks super thin. So 474 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: recognizing that first of all, and then recognizing that on 475 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: that same horizon none of the mountains show up they're 476 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: too small. So these things where we perceive as huge 477 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: relative to the size of the earth are unobservable lot 478 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 1: on the horizon. But then the only thing about the 479 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: largest structure that humans have ever built, and how that 480 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: compares to the largest mountains, and then how big we 481 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: are compared to those structures. I just I felt like 482 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: any sense of self importance I had was stripped away. 483 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: So I was really struggling with is that what I'm 484 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: gonna come home with? This this idea that that that 485 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: there's this meaninglessness to it like that was really troubling 486 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: to me, and also had a lot of time to 487 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: think about my mortality because I, you know what, I 488 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: might not serve I have this, So it's a for 489 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: me at least. I don't tell him that everybody has 490 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: had his experience, but for me, it was a very 491 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: thoughtful time. Yeah, I realized that you had. I was 492 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: struggling with the scale of things when really part of 493 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: my role is to be attentive to the scale. I 494 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: choose if I'm studying a plant for my whole career, 495 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: or maybe I'm sitting around the dinner table and being 496 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: attentive to the scale right there, which is just my 497 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: loved ones around the table, or maybe you're studying the 498 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: structure universe. Just being attentive to that scale, the scale 499 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: you choose and we have the flexibility to pick it 500 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: and they're all okay. But just kind of accepting that 501 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: I thought was was a big leap for me. UM. So, 502 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: mental health advocacy is something that you've become quite interested in. 503 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: The sustainability has also been an idea that UM is 504 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: that something that also grew out of your those sort 505 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: of observations when when you were in space. That interesting 506 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: is to ability. Yeah, I do think that I did 507 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on the space station thinking about, well, 508 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: this is probably my last time in space, what's my 509 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: what am I gonna do after I work at NASA? 510 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: What is my purpose here? And I love being outside. 511 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: That's why I joined the Army as opposed to the 512 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: Air Force. I I just the idea of being outside 513 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: and being comfortable in challenging environments is something that's always 514 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: been appealing to me. And I also feel like with 515 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: devices that we all carry around that are engineered to 516 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: distract us, I think it's very easy for us to 517 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: stop being attentive to the environment. That we actually live in. 518 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: I I do think we've got challenges ahead of us. 519 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: The climate change is is atmospheric change again, I I've 520 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: already mentioned my perception of the atmosphere is that very 521 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: thin resource. And I really want to get that message 522 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: across the people, because it's easy to think of the 523 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: earth as so big that how could we possibly impact it? 524 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: But really it's not the whole earth we're worried about. 525 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: It is just this thin layer we live in. That idea, 526 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: as well as concern that we're getting so sucked into 527 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: screens that I would love to get involved in helping 528 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: younger people appreciate that there's other alternatives, that there's an 529 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: outdoor world that's super interesting, and I don't think a 530 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: lot of young people are getting the opportunity to compare 531 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: one way of living to the other like we have. 532 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: We grew up without those things. We know what it 533 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: was like and how much fun it could be without 534 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: having a cell phone in your pocket all the time, 535 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: and a lot of people are growing up without that. 536 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: So I'd love to get involved with getting people to 537 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: experience that. Yeah. Yeah, well, wonderful, Thank you. Some of 538 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: this has been really fascinating. Thank you. Thank you so 539 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: much for taking the time to chat with me, Malcolm, 540 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: It really really was a pleasure. Um, I feel blessed 541 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: I got to talk to you. It was really a 542 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: wonderful opportunity for me as well. When Mark was looking 543 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: at Earth from orbit and grappling with how insignificant we 544 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: all seemed, he said he felt troubled by the possible 545 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: meaninglessness of it all, But then he realized it's up 546 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: to human beings to choose the scale we pay attention to. 547 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: We decide what's worthy of our attention and what's meaningful. 548 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: That might be something as expansive as studying the cosmos, 549 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: or as immediate as having dinner with our loved ones, 550 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: or as minute as the well being of a single 551 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: hatch chilly pepper plant. This piece of wisdom from Mark 552 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: is a great place for us to end this season. 553 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: Pay attention to the scale you choose, because creativity begins 554 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: when we give attention to something previously unnoticed, a minor 555 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: detail overlooked, a bigger picture still unseen. As we strive 556 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: to be new creators in our work and in our lives, 557 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: let's remember that new insights can be found wherever we 558 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: choose to look as long as we're attentive enough to 559 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: see it. Thanks for listening to Smart Talks with I 560 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: b M. This is our season finale, but stay tuned 561 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: for more smart Talks coming soon. Smart Talks with thy 562 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: b M is produced by Matt Romano, David Jaw, Royston Reserve, 563 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: and Edith Roussela with Jacob Goldstein. We're edited by Sophie Crane. 564 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: Our engineers are Jason Gambrel, Sarah Brigar, and Ben Holliday. 565 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: Theme song by Gramoscope. Special thanks to Carl magliori Andy Kelly, 566 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: Kathy Callaghan and the eight Bar and I b M teams, 567 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: as well as the Pushkin Marketing team. Smart Talks with 568 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: I b M is a production of Pushkin Industries and 569 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: I Heart Media. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on 570 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 571 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. I'm Malcolm Glamo. This is a paid 572 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: advertisement from I Been