1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy P. Wilson 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly fry Uh. This week it was not 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: exactly a two parter, but we talked about Helen Tausig 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: and Vivian Thomas, who were both part of the development 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: of heart surgery to treat to trilogy of Fellow and 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: Other congenital heart Conditions Vivian time, They've both been on 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: my list forever. Really, for so so long. I feel 9 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: like the first people who suggested it to us as 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: a topic. We're like, way way back when you and 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: I very first joined the show, UM on a visit 12 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: to see my mom my mom and I watched something 13 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: the Lord made, and I think that was really what 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: made me go, who's this Mary Stewart Masterson character? Though, 15 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: like like, I had been percolating on this idea of 16 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: Vivian Thomas for so long, and then I was like, 17 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: wait a minute, but who is this this other doctor? 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: Like I became very curious about her, and for a 19 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: time I thought I was going to do you a trilogy, 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: But honestly, I found Dr Blaylock a little frustrating. Um 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: shout out to that movie though, because it is so good. 22 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: It's a really good movie. Like I remember being so 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: blown away by most deaf in that movie, and I 24 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: can't remember if that was before after Hitchhiker's Guide, but 25 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: I just remember being like, this person that I didn't 26 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: realize was a good actor is holding his own in 27 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: scenes with Alan Rickman, and they are both equally compelling, 28 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: and that is hard to do with Allen Rickman. Um 29 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: I say, as a big Ellen Rinkman him, but I 30 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: just remember being like, Holy Moses, he's really good. It's 31 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: a fun watch. Yeah, it's a really good movie. I 32 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: have not seen the UM the documentary that was on 33 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: PBS American Experience. I had, I had thought about. It 34 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: is available, I think in one place to rent a 35 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: streaming version of it, and I just did not. I 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: did not find the time to do it. UM. I 37 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: do have a story about Helen Tausig that I did 38 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: not include in the episode because I just couldn't figure 39 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: out whether this was something that Tausity actually expressed or 40 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: if it was the interpretation of the author who was 41 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: doing the writing UM so very late in her life 42 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: after she had retired. UM Tausig had this surgery first 43 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: on one ear and then on the other that restored 44 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: a lot of her hearing um. And the way this 45 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: was described and what I was reading was that people 46 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: had really tried to pressure her to do it during 47 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: her career, and she didn't want to do it because 48 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: it was an elective surgery. That part is in the episode, 49 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: but it was also that she was like, I'm doing 50 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: my job. Fine. If you think I'm talking too loudly 51 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: or too quietly, that is your problem, not my problem. 52 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: And so I don't think I need to have an 53 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: elective surgery to address your discomfort with my speaking volume. 54 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: And I was like, man, I really really wish I knew, 55 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: because it was not clear in the way that it 56 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: was written whether that was something that like had that 57 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: that was her own thought that she had expressed somewhere, 58 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: or whether that was the thought of the person who 59 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: was writing the paper. Um, But I did want to 60 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: kind of acknowledge it because I was like, that's awesome, right. 61 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: I loved her the story that you included about the 62 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: medical school discussion, and like, why would anybody do all 63 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: this if they're not actually going to get a degree 64 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: at the end it's like, I hope they don't. Okay, 65 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: thank you, goodbye bye. I think it was really weird. 66 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: I kept finding places that said that Boston University was 67 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: not granting uh medical degrees to women, and I was 68 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: like it, but be you was like co educational, going 69 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: back to when it absorbed the like New England Women's 70 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: Medical School. So I was really confusing. I went down 71 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: a big rabbit hole to try to figure out like 72 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: what was behind that, And I really think it was 73 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: just that her professor thought that Johns Hopkins might be 74 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: a better school. But yeah, she wound up than at 75 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins for the for the rest of her career. Um, 76 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: we've had uh, like a lot of people wanting to 77 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: work in fields that did not really welcome them. Um. 78 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: Over the last couple of weeks, it became kind of 79 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: an accidental thematic. Yeah, well it's, uh, we're coming out 80 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: of Halloween season, so that's like a scary um but 81 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: also of you know, frequent story of the people that 82 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: aren't really talked about yeah history as much. So it's 83 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: not so surprising that it emerges right thematic from time 84 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: to time. But we have been on a tear yeah, 85 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: and another story that did not make it to end 86 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: of the episode was actually about Dr Blaylock. Apparently Dr 87 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: Blaylock loved Coca Cola and he would drink like six 88 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: cokes a day, um, and if he shared a coke 89 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: with you, like that was a mark of honor. He 90 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: did not understand that he did not just offer people 91 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: a coke when they came into the lab um and 92 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: when they were doing experiments involving shock, one of the 93 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: things that they were trying to study was was cold, 94 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: and they had this refrigerator and he was like, that 95 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: was where the cokes were stored. And they were having 96 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: to clear everything out of it to make it like 97 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: an experimental space with cold temperatures. And Dr Blaylock kept 98 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: being like, but but my cokes, though, like where are 99 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: my cokes gonna go? And they thought sort of thought 100 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: he was joking. You were like, we're using this for 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: experiments now. And finally he like found a box like 102 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: a VIVI and Thomas found this box that five cokes 103 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: would fit in, and then like Dr Blaylock found the 104 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: one place that it would fit into this refrigerator and 105 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: I was like, man, I feel like this is just 106 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: a an illustrative story about this very particular man. Yeah, 107 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: I share your frustration. He seems like just an insufferable person. 108 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: And I keep finding myself going like why did no one? 109 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: I mean, but people did realize. You mentioned it in 110 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: your outline that like it was getting to the point 111 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: where his career was on kind of thin ice. Yeah, oh, ma'am. 112 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: There's part of me that I started laughing at one 113 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: point and I asked Casey to remove it because my 114 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: thought for the time machine that we often talk about 115 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: is just to send my hand flipping the bird back 116 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: in time to him, Like, yeah, I feel like, don't 117 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: be such a jerk. One of the things that a 118 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: lot of people have pointed out is that Dr Blaylock 119 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 1: could not have done what he did without Vivian Thomas. 120 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: It just he needed he needed Vivian Thomas to to 121 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: do what he did. But conversely, like Vivian Thomas could 122 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: not have done what he did without Alfred Blaylock, Like 123 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: there was just there was no possible way that um 124 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: like the white medical establishment, even if he had gone 125 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: to medical school and he had developed his practice on 126 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: his own and he had found the time and the 127 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,239 Speaker 1: resources to be able to do research of his own, 128 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: and he had made some kind of breakthrough, Like it's 129 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: just not likely that the like the white medical establishment 130 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: would have taken notice of it, Like and that's that's 131 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: just not something that that probably would have happened. A 132 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: lot of people have also commented that like Johns Hopkins 133 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: was there was a lot of racism at Johns Hopkins. 134 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: We talked towards the end of the episode about about 135 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: Thomas working with Dr Levi Watkins Jr. On the first 136 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: implanted autumn at it cardiac defibrillator. He also became part 137 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: of the admissions committee, and after he became involved with 138 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: admissions into Johns Hopkins Medical School, UM admissions of marginalized 139 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: groups grew by something like four hundred percent, which is 140 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: a lot a lot. I mean, I don't I don't 141 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: know how in terms of actual numbers that pans out, 142 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: but like there was like still a lot of work 143 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: that was needing to be done in the last years 144 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: that UM that Vivian Thomas was working there, even as 145 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: he was becoming more recognized for what he had done 146 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: Complex symbiosis. Yeah, yeah, of that whole thing is it 147 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: is hard. I think that's probably why people don't as 148 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: often kind of acknowledge why like Thomas needed Blaylock as 149 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: well as because he was such a jerk. U but 150 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: like as you you know, so clearly pointed out, like 151 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: they're just we're wheels in motion, and a lot of 152 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: them racism related that would have held him back otherwise. Yeah. Sure, 153 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: I am glad that Vivian Thomas got some recognition while 154 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: he was still alive too to learn about it, because 155 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: like that's also happened where we've done episodes about people 156 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: who did something that was a big breakthrough that was 157 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: totally just washed over the in their time, and then 158 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: it's not until long after their death that somebody gets 159 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: told that was actually deeply important. You're a genius. Yeah yeah, um, 160 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: I don't remember. It was on the Johns Hopkins website, 161 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: but the speeches from when that portrait was dedicated, Like 162 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: the speech is online, Like there's a SoundCloud file of 163 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: it up there, so you can listen to Vivian Thomas 164 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: actually talking, which I found to be lovely. It is, 165 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: it's so it struck me so hard the excerpt that 166 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: you included where he's talking about how he didn't think 167 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: he ever, you know, would be seen as making such 168 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: a big impact, and when you considered like how much 169 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: work he was doing, the fact that that was not 170 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: ever part of his mental equation like oh, I'm doing 171 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: important things that people will see as is a little 172 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: bit heartbreaking and also speaks to his own humility and yeah, 173 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: um yeah, it's a very moving speech. Yeah. He seems 174 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: to have been just deeply, deeply humble about everything his 175 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: whole life. So I hope people enjoyed the episodes. We 176 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: really did get a request for Vivian Thomas within like 177 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: the last week. Like when I was going through looking 178 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: for listener mail to read for the these episodes, I 179 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: found that one. So it was a very recently uh 180 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: sent in one. And anyway, uh, if you'd like to 181 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: send us an email, We're at History Podcast at i 182 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: heart radio dot com and you can subscribe to our 183 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: show on the I heart radio app and Apple podcast 184 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: and wherever else to get your podcasts. And you know, 185 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: we hope everybody has a great weekend. Whatever is on 186 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: your plate for the weekend. Stuff you missed in History 187 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: Class is a production of I heart Radio. For more 188 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 189 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.