Speaker 1: I won't let my body outly outwait everything that I'm
Speaker 1: made do. Won't spend my life trying to change. I'm
Speaker 1: learning to love who I am. I get I'm strong,
Speaker 1: I feel free, I know who every part of me
Speaker 1: it is beautiful and then will always out with if
Speaker 1: you feel it with joy. And there she's some love
Speaker 1: to the boom. Let's say good day and did you
Speaker 1: and die out Happy Saturday. Outweigh fam. I am sitting
Speaker 1: across from Crystal lunen Selass, which she is a friend
Speaker 1: of Cat de Fada's, who is the host of You
Speaker 1: Need Therapy, and she's joined me on Four Things that
Speaker 1: May Be Round and she's been on the Outweigh podcast
Speaker 1: as well. And Crystal your I would say, y'all are
Speaker 1: basically like colleagues, colleagues ish in the same field. Oh
Speaker 1: colleagues and BFFs. So why don't you share with us
Speaker 1: too or your background, your credentials and what you do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well thanks for having me. I am a registered dietitian
Speaker 1: going on over twelve years now in the field, specifically
Speaker 1: working in addiction recovery, eating disordered treatment, and sports nutrition
Speaker 1: and kind of everything in between. My real passion is
Speaker 1: working with pretty acute eating disorder treatment and complex cases,
Speaker 1: and so I became a certified Eating disorder registered dietitian
Speaker 1: to be able to really elevate my expertise in that.
Speaker 1: And then I also work with body image and really,
Speaker 1: I mean what we're talking about today with the brain
Speaker 1: and really interested in the complexities of how the disease
Speaker 1: process works. And so I try to practice that in
Speaker 1: my private practice. I have a group practice where we
Speaker 1: can do all the fun healing things that we would
Speaker 1: just Horizon Nutrition Counseling if you happen to be here
Speaker 1: in Nashville. If not, she has a website Horizon Nutrition
Speaker 1: Counseling dot com. And yeah, like you mentioned the brain
Speaker 1: and our bodies. Well, we're going to break down today
Speaker 1: which Crystal is gonna be on for the next three weeks.
Speaker 1: So this is part one of three. In each week
Speaker 1: we'll be covering a different topic. But this is how
Speaker 1: body image is more about your brain than what you
Speaker 1: look like. So break down what that means. Great, So,
Speaker 1: body image is a perception, so it's not necessarily based
Speaker 1: on factual information all the time. It's based on your
Speaker 1: perception and a collective experience of your thoughts and feelings
Speaker 1: and how you feel in your body versus what we
Speaker 1: may physically see when we look down at our bodies.
Speaker 1: And so that's where it really is a game of
Speaker 1: how our brain processes that information and what lens it
Speaker 1: gets processed through. So if the lens is somewhat disordered,
Speaker 1: then the collective way our brain puts that picture together
Speaker 1: is going to be slightly distorted or severely distorted and
Speaker 1: more dysmorphic type. So it really becomes a game of genetics.
Speaker 1: The way we're eating habits, are our brain slightly malnourished
Speaker 1: in certain ways, if it's had a brain injury, if
Speaker 1: we've used substances. There are so many things that impact
Speaker 1: the way our brain processes information, and so from my
Speaker 1: point of view, it really does become more of the
Speaker 1: behavioral part of how we think about our bodies. It
Speaker 1: makes me think of b d D body dysmorphic disorder,
Speaker 1: and I've been doing a lot of work on my
Speaker 1: brain lately. Actually, before we sit down and record, I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, right after this, I have a neural
Speaker 1: feedback appointment and I can't be late because I like
Speaker 1: to take advantage of every minute. I mean, I can
Speaker 1: be late, but that you know, we'll seep into my
Speaker 1: brain therapy time. And I have realized I'm two years
Speaker 1: into recovery. I don't you don't know a lot of
Speaker 1: my backstory. Some listeners do, but maybe this is your
Speaker 1: first date listening to outweigh. But I am here as
Speaker 1: just the person that wants to come alongside others that
Speaker 1: are in the thick of it, or maybe they're also
Speaker 1: in recovery, and just I want you to know you're
Speaker 1: not alone. And I have experts come on that know
Speaker 1: the facts and like why we are the way we are,
Speaker 1: and that's what Crystal is doing here today. So I'm
Speaker 1: not claiming to be an expert by any means, but
Speaker 1: I've seen in my own self is as my brain
Speaker 1: has gotten healthier, it's easier for me to navigate some
Speaker 1: of this stuff because I'm not so for lack of
Speaker 1: a better term, I'm not so all up in my
Speaker 1: head about it. It's like I'm able to kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, take more of a straight line to where
Speaker 1: I need to go instead of zigzagging all over the
Speaker 1: place and getting caught up in loops and this and that.
Speaker 1: It's like things are just more clear to me. But
Speaker 1: that's as I've had the luxury and the privilege to
Speaker 1: do something to take care of my brain like therapy
Speaker 1: and neurofeedback and taking the time for myself. And I
Speaker 1: know not everybody has access to those things, so I
Speaker 1: do recognize that. But it is interesting to me that
Speaker 1: as I've really been focusing on my brain the last
Speaker 1: you know, I would say, year full year, I'm starting
Speaker 1: to see the benefits. And it's crazy, Yes, it is
Speaker 1: crazy when you actually experienced brain change and see those
Speaker 1: neural pathways actually changing. I imagine it as like a
Speaker 1: very thick brush where like you couldn't just walk into
Speaker 1: the to the forest, you know, and we have to
Speaker 1: blaze this trail of new neural pathways that takes so
Speaker 1: much work and effort to actually turn into more of
Speaker 1: a dirt road and then more of like a paved
Speaker 1: road with like lighting, and it's not you know, it
Speaker 1: really takes so much practice and effort in different types
Speaker 1: of therapies to really change the brain to perceive our
Speaker 1: body in a true and genuine way, which I can't remember.
Speaker 1: Is there like a number ish where you have to
Speaker 1: do something a certain amount of times? Because when I
Speaker 1: was in recovery. Have you heard of the book brainover Binge?
Speaker 1: I have, Okay, so I read that early on. That
Speaker 1: was something that clicked with me in the start. It
Speaker 1: wasn't the only component to my recovery at all, but
Speaker 1: it was something. You know, She's very much focus sing
Speaker 1: on the brain and me training myself and building those
Speaker 1: new neural pathways to be like every time I was
Speaker 1: going to go to the pantry, it's like I stopped
Speaker 1: and I turned around, but I had to go and
Speaker 1: stop and turn around hundreds and hundreds. I don't even
Speaker 1: know how many times I had to do it to
Speaker 1: build the new neural pathways. And I can't remember if
Speaker 1: she ever gave a number. Is there why? I think
Speaker 1: in general it's you know, to break a habit quote unquote,
Speaker 1: it's about twenty one times. Well for me, I was, well,
Speaker 1: the difference between a habit and a ritual is that
Speaker 1: ritual it's going to take a lot more because it's
Speaker 1: not just the behavior you're changing, You're changing the emotional
Speaker 1: connection to it. And that's a whole different ball games.
Speaker 1: And just like I'm gonna stop, you know, like biting
Speaker 1: my fingernails, you know, or something like that it takes
Speaker 1: more intention and more skill to do it. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so this is something I think that is commonly talked
Speaker 1: about amongst women, but men suffer from this just the same.
Speaker 1: I don't even know suffers the right word, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they have the same experiences men. It's it's unfortunate because
Speaker 1: I think it's more of a stereotype that men don't
Speaker 1: have issues, and so no one asks them the question,
Speaker 1: and many times they're not very forthcoming with the information
Speaker 1: and seeking help themselves. So if the assumption is that
Speaker 1: men don't have issues, their therapists may not be asking,
Speaker 1: their doctors might not be asking, and so they may
Speaker 1: be doing a lot of things that you know, that
Speaker 1: they know to do to change their body image that's
Speaker 1: not very healthy. It presents a little bit different than
Speaker 1: they would women because it's kind of normalized for women
Speaker 1: to speak negatively about our bodies to other women. Um,
Speaker 1: but men they kind of like joke about it and
Speaker 1: grab things and like that. You know, they're very like
Speaker 1: aggressive with it sometimes and they're just meant to kind
Speaker 1: of shake it off. So I've seen it present in
Speaker 1: so many ways with men where they end up maybe
Speaker 1: using drugs or alcohol, to mask their body image issues.
Speaker 1: I've seen body builders they kind of say, like, my
Speaker 1: muscles are kind of my way of like being scary
Speaker 1: and intimidating, so people leave me alone. It presents just
Speaker 1: differently for men sometimes, but really they struggle with the
Speaker 1: same thing, but no one asks them about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you said they joke about it made me think of, yes,
Speaker 1: like I know men that after conversations have come out
Speaker 1: and said, I mean, yeah, I kind of I don't
Speaker 1: when I look in the mirror, this is not what
Speaker 1: I see. This is what I see. And it is
Speaker 1: crazy because we look at other people who are like,
Speaker 1: that's not what I'm noticing about you at all. Like
Speaker 1: you said, it's a lot of it is in our head.
Speaker 1: And I remember feeling so much shame about my eating disorder,
Speaker 1: and I just feel for men to I don't know
Speaker 1: if there's more shame, if that's possible, because like women,
Speaker 1: we can I felt shame and I didn't want to
Speaker 1: talk about it. But then again, like you said, it's
Speaker 1: like more acceptable for women to have concerns, so the
Speaker 1: shame almost seems extra for men. Absolutely, it absolutely is,
Speaker 1: and they certainly don't want to talk to other men
Speaker 1: about it, because you know what if the pier is
Speaker 1: really just more judgmental, like what why are you asking
Speaker 1: about that? I don't want to talk about that, whereas
Speaker 1: women were like tell me everything, like telling about other things,
Speaker 1: and so it's a little bit different. But I used
Speaker 1: to run male body image groups. It was men only,
Speaker 1: and it was so amazing to see the healing that
Speaker 1: comes out of that when you put a group of
Speaker 1: men together who are actually open to discussing their issues
Speaker 1: and just seeing that like, I'm not alone. The stereotype
Speaker 1: needs to change, and it's only going to change with me,
Speaker 1: with us and within the you know, like as we
Speaker 1: build out of our community and how we you know,
Speaker 1: they start kind of getting empowered to change too. But
Speaker 1: it's definitely the same and it's something that we need
Speaker 1: to talk about more well. So when it comes to
Speaker 1: either men, women, younger, older, there's there's I mean, eating
Speaker 1: disorders and disorder behaviors effects anyone and everyone or can
Speaker 1: So what little tools do you have maybe to share
Speaker 1: just a few with us that we can keep in
Speaker 1: our back pocket when we're right now trying to process Okay, wait,
Speaker 1: this is more my brain, this body image thing it's
Speaker 1: all in my head. So what are some things that
Speaker 1: we can be doing to start building those neuropathways and
Speaker 1: undoing it. Yeah, So there's a type of therapy called
Speaker 1: cognitive behavioral therapy, and it really is what we know
Speaker 1: changes the brain the most. That and like exposure therapy,
Speaker 1: so the CBT has a set of skills that really
Speaker 1: just helps with stopping thoughts. So as you notice kind
Speaker 1: of ruminating or cyclical thoughts that kind of rabbit trail
Speaker 1: into just a lot of bullying and a negativity. That's
Speaker 1: the thought where if you can stop and think about
Speaker 1: literally anything else. So think of it as like, even
Speaker 1: though your brain is not a muscle, but think of
Speaker 1: it as like if I'm trying to strengthen my bicep,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna exercise my bicep, and if I exercise my
Speaker 1: brain to think mostly negative things, that's what it's automatically
Speaker 1: gonna do. So if we can stop those negative thoughts
Speaker 1: and it's act, it's not strengthening those pathways, and then
Speaker 1: if we can follow it up with a neutral thought
Speaker 1: or even maybe a positive thought, that's the foundation of
Speaker 1: laying down those pathways. It makes me think of when
Speaker 1: we're a kid and we're learning fire drills, and it's
Speaker 1: like stop is the first thing, like stopped dropping roll?
Speaker 1: But it's like, okay, first thing we have to do
Speaker 1: is just stopped. But you first have to recognize you
Speaker 1: even having the thoughts. So you have to be very
Speaker 1: mindful of, Wow, I just zoned out with this negative
Speaker 1: thought for a really long time. I need to first
Speaker 1: acknowledge that that I'm having that thought because the more
Speaker 1: you can catch it sooner, the more you can redirect it.
Speaker 1: And I'm so glad you said that, because, yeah, how
Speaker 1: can you stop something I don't even realize is happening,
Speaker 1: especially when it consumes your your headspace so much you
Speaker 1: just it's just kind of normal, Like what do you mean,
Speaker 1: Like I as soon as I see my leg, like
Speaker 1: I say, my brain just immediately goes there. And so
Speaker 1: you know that you already know that about yourself. So
Speaker 1: have a set of just kind of thoughts and phrases
Speaker 1: that you can just say to stop that thought. And
Speaker 1: then also there you know, kind of being body avoidant
Speaker 1: creates a fear of unknown, you know, And so I
Speaker 1: would also encourage just knowing your body is really important
Speaker 1: because if we're wearing baggy things. If we're avoiding looking
Speaker 1: at ourselves in the mirror, of course we're going to
Speaker 1: create an image in our mind that's distorted because we're
Speaker 1: only knowing what our body shape is based on how
Speaker 1: negative our thoughts are. I'm not asking you know, like
Speaker 1: love your body and look at all the things right now,
Speaker 1: but it's really about if you know, as you're completely
Speaker 1: body avoidance, that is going to create this fear and
Speaker 1: why are your nervous system to be scared of it?
Speaker 1: And that also is gonna cause a lot of harm
Speaker 1: long term. Okay, So first just to recap, we need
Speaker 1: to recognize and acknowledge what's happening. Then secondly we need
Speaker 1: to stop if we once we notice the negativity, just
Speaker 1: put a stop to it and replace it with something neutral.
Speaker 1: All are positive now instead of just saying positive? Why
Speaker 1: did you say neutral? Because some people just can't they're
Speaker 1: not ready for positive yet, okay, So or they'll just
Speaker 1: say positive something and just be like, I don't believe
Speaker 1: that anyway. Well, because yeah, for affirmations, you have to
Speaker 1: truly believe it for it to say Sometimes you don't
Speaker 1: necessarily have to truly believe it. On the front end,
Speaker 1: more you say it, you eventually do. But some people
Speaker 1: are just not even they cannot it actually makes it
Speaker 1: can be more harmful. So sometimes just neutral or just
Speaker 1: challenging the you know, if it's everyone stares at me
Speaker 1: when I go to the beach, well do they really?
Speaker 1: You know, like look around, is everyone you know looking
Speaker 1: at you when you step on the beach? Recognize the
Speaker 1: reality that it's not okay? And then the last one
Speaker 1: knowing your body and don't be what you're saying a
Speaker 1: body avoidance. Okay, So thank you for sharing those little
Speaker 1: those little things. Those are three things right there that
Speaker 1: you can keep in your back pocket if you notice,
Speaker 1: you know, body image type thoughts popping in to your head,
Speaker 1: and just again know that you're not alone, whether you're
Speaker 1: male or female. And I know, just me being a woman,
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time saying, oh, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I speak to the women, and then I'll get a
Speaker 1: note from a man and I'm just reminded, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: men are going through this too, and again I've even
Speaker 1: witnessed it. So thank you for coming on and sharing that.
Speaker 1: And if there's any men listening and you have thoughts
Speaker 1: or emails something you want to share um or you
Speaker 1: would like to share some of your story, would love
Speaker 1: to hear from you. Hello at Outweigh podcast dot com
Speaker 1: is where you can hit us up. And then Crystal
Speaker 1: your website one more time, Horizon Nutrition Counseling dot com. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having with us today, and again,
Speaker 1: Crystal is gonna be back next Saturday and then the
Speaker 1: following and we're going to get into like what really
Speaker 1: is normal eating? And I say normal in air quotes.
Speaker 1: And then also after that a listener email about being
Speaker 1: concerned for a friend that is displaying some disordered behaviors.
Speaker 1: All right, see'all next Saturday. By let