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Speaker 1: Quality diamonds, but Joseph's gotten more. I can't help myself.

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Speaker 1: I love babies. I love them, I you know, I

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Speaker 1: like pulling babies, and particularly my own, uh you know,

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Speaker 1: my grand babies. Spent hours rocking them. But have you

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Speaker 1: ever seen a baby that you just can't seem to

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Speaker 1: get settled down? There's so much frustration and anger, it

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Speaker 1: would seem. I don't know if they're capable of anger.

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Speaker 1: I think they are, that you can see their face

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Speaker 1: turned red. I've often heard people say that if that

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Speaker 1: kind of rage and anger could be channeled into an

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Speaker 1: adult male, that they.

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Speaker 2: Could kill it. Do surprise me, But what if what

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Speaker 2: if a child does.

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Speaker 1: Get angry? What if in modern parlance, they become triggered.

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Speaker 1: I've come to hate that term.

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Speaker 2: But what if that happens? What do they do.

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Speaker 1: With that teenage anger? Today on Bodybags, we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about one such teenager, an accused teenager, an accused teenager.

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Speaker 2: Who has allegedly.

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Speaker 1: Taken the life, our lives of her parents and altered

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Speaker 1: the lives of all of the others surrounding that family.

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Speaker 1: We're going to dig into the case of Sarah Grace Patrick.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs, Dave.

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you, I still see kids daily

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Speaker 1: that are angry. That is in college students, not every boy,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I see them, and I'll see them

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Speaker 1: direct anger at me or at my colleagues, and I'm thinking,

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Speaker 1: what have we done to be the target of this

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Speaker 1: kind of rage? Many times because it's just like they

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Speaker 1: just sometimes they'll just it'll be overwhelming, and I'm thinking,

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Speaker 1: We're not the source of this. This, this has got

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Speaker 1: a deeper route to it, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember that happening when I was in college.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even I was so afraid of my professors.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't even talk to them most of the time.

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Speaker 3: I never encourage me. I never want to.

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Speaker 2: See an advisor the entire time I was in college.

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Speaker 3: Now, I thought that was a sign of weakness and

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Speaker 3: they'd end up using it against me.

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Speaker 1: Hey, you know what I got to tell you a

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Speaker 1: quick one about Kim. My wife got her undergraduate and

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Speaker 1: her graduate degree actually in the same town where this

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Speaker 1: case they were discussing. Is that she went to West

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Speaker 1: Georgia College. At college at the Times University now. And

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Speaker 1: Kim takes great pride in telling me that she kept

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Speaker 1: the little manual that they give you, you know, the

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Speaker 1: spiral manual they give you when you first arrive as

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Speaker 1: a as a freshman, And she said, I didn't need

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Speaker 1: anybody to tell me what I wanted to do. I

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Speaker 1: knew what I was going to major in. And she said,

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Speaker 1: I just went through and systematically checked each box. And

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Speaker 1: I kept that same thing, and she got her undergraduate

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Speaker 1: in three and a half years. They never missed a summer.

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Speaker 1: She just grinded it out. But now, you know, we

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Speaker 1: we have to handhold all the way through for most

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll have I'll still have kids that'll come

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Speaker 1: to me, you know, seniors and say I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I want to do. And that's understandable, I know,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, you get anger and frustration, and anger and

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Speaker 1: frustration directed at parents is something that has always existed.

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Speaker 1: I dealt with it. I'm sure that you dealt with it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that my kids have dealt with it and

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Speaker 1: continue to deal with it on a regular basis. But

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Speaker 1: when you have something, Dave that ends in a homicide

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Speaker 1: or a double homicide, it really doesn't give you pause,

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Speaker 1: doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: The one thing I told you when we start talking

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Speaker 3: about is Sarah Grace Patrick. She was sixteen at the

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Speaker 3: time February twentieth of this year, twenty twenty five. This

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Speaker 3: is an ongoing case where an arrest has just been made,

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Speaker 3: but there were several comments that have been made by

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Speaker 3: family members. Jamie Brock is a forty five year old

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Speaker 3: stepfather to Sarah Grace Patrick. Her mother, Kristen is forty

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Speaker 3: one biological mother. Jamie and Kristen have a child together,

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Speaker 3: little girl, five years old at the time. The reason

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Speaker 3: I bring that up is this is a yours mind

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Speaker 3: and oursh family. Jamie had some other children I know

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Speaker 3: of at least one son because he spoke out publicly

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Speaker 3: about some of the things being said, and so we

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Speaker 3: know this is a blended family, and we know that

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Speaker 3: Sarah Grace Patrick was living in the home with her

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Speaker 3: mother and stepfather and her half sister. I only identify

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Speaker 3: it that way because that is the realistic bloodline, and

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Speaker 3: it might have something to do with this. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: because this is a breaking story. But right now we

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Speaker 3: know that in the early morning hours of February twentieth,

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Speaker 3: a Thursday, that the parents were not up to get

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Speaker 3: everybody ready for work in school and whatever they do,

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Speaker 3: and their five year old daughter gets up read her mom,

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Speaker 3: you know, ready for the regular start of the day,

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Speaker 3: and mom and dad were still in bed. She goes

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Speaker 3: into their room, and we're not sure what she saw

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Speaker 3: or what she thinks she saw or what she knows

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Speaker 3: she saw. Five year olds are so different. We know

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Speaker 3: she's six now, but we do not know exactly what

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Speaker 3: she identified with what she saw. But she did go

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Speaker 3: and tell Sarah, get up. Mom and dad are in bed,

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Speaker 3: And it was Sarah grayce Patrick that picked up the

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Speaker 3: phone and called nine one one. In the call, we

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Speaker 3: know that there was a dispatch talking to the deputies

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Speaker 3: on their way saying, no, these are we do not

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Speaker 3: need to be worrying about CPR. These are dead people.

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Speaker 3: That was pretty much what was said. Yeah, that's the stage.

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Speaker 3: I guess it's about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the It's given me pause because I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about the five year old right now, and I

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Speaker 1: had a kind of a flashback to a case that

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Speaker 1: cases that I've talked about here extensively on body Bags

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Speaker 1: and have covered on on a separate podcast called The

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Speaker 1: Pike didn't masker, and uh there was a child at

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Speaker 1: you know that that case involved four different scenes, and

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Speaker 1: there was a child that came to the door that

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Speaker 1: had found their deceased parents back in the back bedroom.

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Speaker 1: They'd been executed, and the child, it's it's amazing to

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Speaker 1: me what what kind of how how children perceived death,

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Speaker 1: And that child in that case came to the door

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Speaker 1: and said, Mommy and daddy are playing zombie, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you you know, you think about that, and you

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Speaker 1: think about, you know, what, what's their perception at that,

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Speaker 1: you know, their ability to comprehend what they're seeing. And

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Speaker 1: I guess before we go any further, I, uh, Lord,

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Speaker 1: have mercy. Literally, I hope this child is going to

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Speaker 1: be able to live out the life they've been given

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Speaker 1: in a healthy and supportive way, because this type of

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Speaker 1: thing happening early on in a life like this is

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Speaker 1: so scarring. That's one of the reasons, you know, in

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Speaker 1: my opening I've mentioned that there's been a lot made

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Speaker 1: about this case in the news media. I've shot away

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Speaker 1: from handling it up to this point for one reason.

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Speaker 1: I've been out of state for a while and I've

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Speaker 1: had even my own daughter had reached out to me

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Speaker 1: and she lives not too far from the location of

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Speaker 1: this By.

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Speaker 3: The way, Carlton, Georgia is where we're talking about. It's

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Speaker 3: in West Georgia. If you know your geography, go to Atlanta,

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Speaker 3: Georgia and go west like you're heading towards to the

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Speaker 3: Alabama and is the last county before you get into

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Speaker 3: Alabama County?

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And to be very precise, it's almost see

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Speaker 1: how can I describe it? It carries a Carrollton address,

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Speaker 1: but there's like this little flea speck of a village

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Speaker 1: called Tius And there's actually a road, Tius Road, that

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Speaker 1: runs through there, and.

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Speaker 3: That's actually the road this house is on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And it's a tiny, unincorporated area where nothing

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Speaker 1: really ever happens.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: There's a post office there or was, you know, and

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Speaker 1: that's how the place got its name, I think. And

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Speaker 1: to think that something so brutal could happen and this

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Speaker 1: isolated location is I don't know why. It still surprises

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Speaker 1: me to this day, because you know, evil visits everywhere.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter where you are. As you well know, Dave,

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Speaker 1: nobody is immune to it. But when you see this

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Speaker 1: level like this, this level of violence in the seemingly

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of quiet, unassuming, little out of the

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Speaker 1: way place. It as it adds another level to this

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Speaker 1: as far as fear goes, and I can only imagine

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Speaker 1: the people that are surrounding this. So these actions that

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Speaker 1: have allegedly been taken by the sixteen year old at

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Speaker 1: the time have a ripple effect, and the least of

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Speaker 1: which is not going to be the child, a child

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Speaker 1: that discovered these bodies.

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Speaker 2: They're going to barely scarce for the rest of their life.

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Speaker 3: Let me ask you something, Joe, because when the dispatch

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Speaker 3: and nine one one call is made and Sarah grayce

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Speaker 3: Patrick is being very specific about the injuries that are suffered,

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Speaker 3: these people are not alive. They are dead. CPR is

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Speaker 3: not necessary, and the nine one one dispatch is telling

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Speaker 3: officers headed out that way, that's what they're going into.

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Speaker 3: Now do officers, do deputies or whoever is heading out

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Speaker 3: to the scene. Do they immediately call and say, okay,

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Speaker 3: we've been told these things gunshot, wound dead. Do they

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Speaker 3: roll you? Do they roll forensics?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Then?

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Speaker 3: Do they roll who goes to the scene or is

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Speaker 3: it just deputies until they're there and clear you know,

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Speaker 3: and figure out we do have two dead bodies.

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Speaker 2: How does that work?

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Speaker 1: This is the way the radio traffic goes, and I

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Speaker 1: can almost do it verbatim. Headquarters, this is Unit one,

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, Unit one. Yeah, we've got two deceased individuals.

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Speaker 1: And they won't say decease, they'll use the code. And

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Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. In Atlanta it was a

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Speaker 1: code forty eight. In New Orleans it was code twenty seven,

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Speaker 1: I think twenty seven, and they'll say, we've got two

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Speaker 1: forty eight's that are ten seven ten sevens radio code

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Speaker 1: for out of service, and that will be used for

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Speaker 1: the dead as well. So we've got two forty eight's here,

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Speaker 1: they're ten to seven. We need to get CID and

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Speaker 1: crime scene and route and so that's the way the

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Speaker 1: radio traffic. And when radio gets that information, they will

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Speaker 1: literally reach out to the own call and in this case,

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Speaker 1: it would be an on call with probably Carroll County

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Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department CID Criminal Investigation Division. Now they could either

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Speaker 1: be at headquarters, which this is the top of the day.

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Speaker 1: We're going into the early into the midday, so they're

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Speaker 1: going to roll crimes against persons. Detective out there, they'll

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Speaker 1: be supervisors. They'll go ahead and get the crime scene

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Speaker 1: texts en route. This would probably require more than one.

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Speaker 1: They're going to be doing photography. Once c ID gets

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Speaker 1: out there and assesses the scene. In a rural area

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Speaker 1: like this, CID generally waits longer and they'll say, go

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Speaker 1: ahead and roll the corner out here, and they'll get

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Speaker 1: the corner. Because Carroll County does, in fact have a corner,

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Speaker 1: they don't have a medical examiner, and now the bodies

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Speaker 1: more than likely would probably go to the state. That

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Speaker 1: means that the GBI Georgia Bureau of Investigation would probably

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Speaker 1: get involved in this case to the degree that the

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Speaker 1: state and medical examiner is going to get involved. Now,

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Speaker 1: my suspicion in a case that has been going on

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Speaker 1: this long day, which it has been, I mean we're

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Speaker 1: talking about months now, Yeah, I would imagine that they

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Speaker 1: have at least sourced out or have asked for assistance

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Speaker 1: from GBI agents. You've already got their crime lab involved

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Speaker 1: in it, so they're going to be analyzing any kind

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Speaker 1: of physical evidence that's at the scene.

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Speaker 3: And my understanding is that Carroll County as soon as

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Speaker 3: they knew what they had, Yeah, and I mean this

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Speaker 3: is probably within a matter of minutes. They were on

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Speaker 3: the phone with other authorities at the next level up

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Speaker 3: because they're a small county, Carroll County, and they needed help.

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Speaker 3: They knew they had a double homicide. Yeah, their first

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Speaker 3: thought was murder suicide too. You've got to rule that out,

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Speaker 3: and they did and once they.

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Speaker 1: Were the biggest that's the biggest, the biggest red flag there.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a red flag, that's that's

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Speaker 1: not accurate. The biggest indicator to them, Dave, is that

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Speaker 1: if it's a murder suicide, where's the gun.

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Speaker 2: There ain't no gun.

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Speaker 1: You got one or two possibilities, Uh, that it ain't

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Speaker 1: a murder suicide, or that somebody has tampered with the

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Speaker 1: scene and has removed the weapon. Now I have I

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Speaker 1: have worked cases where it was in fact a murder

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Speaker 1: suicide and the person it happens one of two ways.

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Speaker 1: Either the person that found the bodies has grabbed the

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Speaker 1: weapon and removed the weapon, which in certain circumstances you

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Speaker 1: can kind of understand it because they're fearful they don't

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Speaker 1: deal with this sort of thing, or uh, that someone

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Speaker 1: else has crept in there and tried to alter the

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Speaker 1: scene to make it look like a double homicide.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know those those two scenarios have involved in both

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Speaker 1: those scenarios before, and so my suspicion is is that

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Speaker 1: as soon as the PD rolled up on the scene,

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Speaker 1: the first person that they're going to talk to is

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Speaker 1: now who they suspect is the murder. If I ever

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Speaker 1: had my preference as far as the type or type

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Speaker 1: of environment I had to work involving a homicide, I'm

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Speaker 1: always going to land on indoors.

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Speaker 2: It's outdoors.

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Speaker 1: It's we use I use the term, I use it,

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Speaker 1: I know too much, But the outdoor environments are so

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Speaker 1: dynamic there. You're well, first off, you're you're at the

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Speaker 1: mercy of nature, everything from animals to weather and the

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Speaker 1: blistering heat.

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Speaker 2: Not to say it doesn't get.

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Speaker 1: Hot in people's houses, but the blistering heat, the blistering cold.

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Speaker 3: You know, you mentioned the weather shoe. Remember the track

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Speaker 3: meet out in Texas where we had Austin Metcalf that yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: And you know, it started raining and they had to

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Speaker 3: cover the area with stuff and they actually covered with

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Speaker 3: a blue tarp that they just police found and one

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Speaker 3: of the things they used to hold the tarp down

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Speaker 3: ended up being the book bag of the suspect. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they had a knife that I mean they messed that

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Speaker 3: crime scene was messed up, not because of the police,

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Speaker 3: but because of the weather immediately impacting that. I didn't

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Speaker 3: think about that when you started talking about environment really messing.

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Speaker 1: I think one I've got one that goes back further

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Speaker 1: than that, and that's Tradon Martin. Oh my god, they'd

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Speaker 1: let his body lay lay out there. And it's Florida,

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Speaker 1: as you well as everybody. One thing you're going to

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Speaker 1: encounter in Florida other than bugs and heat are rainstorms

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Speaker 1: and you know, you can almost set your watch, can't

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Speaker 1: you buy it in Florida by the rainstorms in the summer,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they let rain, you know, come down

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Speaker 1: on his body. I never could understand that because you

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Speaker 1: can go into any catalog online that sells crimpsinge equipment

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Speaker 1: and guess what they sell crompsne tents. Yeah, they're easy,

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Speaker 1: They're out there, you can pick them up. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're available on all locations.

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Speaker 3: Just definitely. I as somebody who has been in radio

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Speaker 3: broadcasting most of my adult life. Yeah, radio people are

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Speaker 3: not known for being super intelligent. We have little pop

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Speaker 3: up tents that you could use, that idiots like us

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Speaker 3: could use. So, yeah, there's a way to keep this

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Speaker 3: from happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, yeah, And so when you've got a roof

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Speaker 1: over your head though, right, it's so much more advantageous.

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Speaker 1: I know that's rather obvious, but we begin to think

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Speaker 1: about containment, and not just containment here, it's containment to

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Speaker 1: now the entire home. Just so folks understand, if you're

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Speaker 1: working a CROM scene inside of a structure, and say

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Speaker 1: it's a multi room structure, we're not talking about like

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Speaker 1: an open garage multi room structure. The entire structure is

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Speaker 1: still the CROM scene. Even though the bodies might be

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Speaker 1: in a bedroom. Everything else is secured and treated like

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Speaker 1: part of the CROM scene, which it is.

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Speaker 3: All right, So when you get in there to the bedroom, Joe,

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking, based on the arrest of the daughter, all

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Speaker 3: I'm a sixteen year old daughter. I'm thinking, and they

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Speaker 3: were found in bed, that they were shot while they

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Speaker 3: were asleep. That's what I'm thinking. I could be wrong,

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Speaker 3: but that's what i'm thinking. And I'm picturing in my

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Speaker 3: head blankets, cheap cover pillows. Yeah, maybe close. All of

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Speaker 3: that is on top with the bodies underneath, and I'm thinking,

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Speaker 3: how do you come into that environment and figure out

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Speaker 3: is this blood spatter here from the shot on this victim,

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Speaker 3: on that victim? Where do you start when you walk

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Speaker 3: into that to try to figure out what happened. It's

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Speaker 3: not as simple as being able to walk in and say, oh,

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Speaker 3: they're both shot. We can't find a gun, but their

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Speaker 3: sixteen year old daughter has a lot of really weird

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Speaker 3: TikTok videos. Let's arrest her and just beat the answer

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Speaker 3: out of her. And that doesn't work. You've got to

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Speaker 3: solve the crime. You got to work the scene, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, my department is the science and

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Speaker 1: it will always be the science because I think that

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Speaker 1: in this old universe it's one of the most reliable

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Speaker 1: things we have to fall back on because people are well,

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Speaker 1: let's face it, they're liars. They'll just see they do everything.

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Speaker 1: And so for me, you know, I will always turn

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Speaker 1: back to the science in a case and let's just

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Speaker 1: take blood deposition in a so it can be very dynamic.

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Speaker 1: You can have particularly when you have multiple bodies that

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Speaker 1: are in a very tight space. You can have commingling

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Speaker 1: of blood. You can have overlap where let's say you've

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Speaker 1: got two individuals that are shot side by side, they

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Speaker 1: can be showered with the blood of another person that

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Speaker 1: is immediately adjacent. I reflect back to a triple homicide

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Speaker 1: I had years ago that I worked that was probably

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Speaker 1: about twenty miles away now about twenty five miles away

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Speaker 1: from where this one took place in a town called

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Speaker 1: Union City, Georgia, where I had three guys that were

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Speaker 1: interlinked holding arms on a love seat that were forced

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Speaker 1: down by drug dealers, and they were all shot with

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Speaker 1: the same weapon in the forehead and it was a

340
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Speaker 1: cult python as a three point fifty seven magnum and

341
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Speaker 1: that created a tremendous amount of blood deposition, and it

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Speaker 1: was all commingled on each one of them. So that's

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Speaker 1: a good point. What you have to do is that

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Speaker 1: you assume that that is going to be the case

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Speaker 1: and every layer because you're telling you'd mentioned blankets, for instance,

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Speaker 1: and we don't know because they're not releasing a lot

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Speaker 1: of information which is there, which is the way the

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Speaker 1: GBI generally operates. I've been around them long enough to

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Speaker 1: know that they only release bits of information as they

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Speaker 1: see fit. I understand that completely, but you would work

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Speaker 1: each layer. Let's just let's just think about the bedclothes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're going to take that top blanket off. Well, some

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Speaker 1: of the considerations you have for that that keep using

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Speaker 1: the term multiple gunshot wounds.

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Speaker 2: It's not.

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Speaker 1: They didn't say each has been shot. They say multiple gunshots.

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Speaker 1: And so where they shot through the bedclothes, like through

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Speaker 1: a comforter, through an underlying blanket, through a sheet, and

359
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Speaker 1: then did said projectile pass through the body and go

360
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Speaker 1: through the fitted sheet and wind up in the mattress.

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Speaker 1: That has happened or was the person at such an

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Speaker 1: angle where they shot maybe below the chin, it passes

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Speaker 1: through the comforter that's pulled up to the chin, goes

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Speaker 1: through the skull and goes into the headboard. I've had

365
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Speaker 1: that happen. So you get these multi if you can

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Speaker 1: just imagine like these laser lines which we use, by

367
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Speaker 1: the way, to pull trajectories with now you can see

368
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Speaker 1: them intersecting through the air. You know, when you see

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Speaker 1: that photograph of laser trajectories, it's really striking. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's really something, and you get an idea not just

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Speaker 1: to the track of the bullet. But Dave, you also

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Speaker 1: get an idea of the position of the shooter relative

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Speaker 1: to the victims. Where what's the highest probability of where

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Speaker 1: this individual not just would have been standing, but what

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Speaker 1: position Where then, do you think they were fully erect

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Speaker 1: firing downward into the body, where they at a slight angle,

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Speaker 1: where they flat? Were they lower and shooting up? Did

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Speaker 1: they crawl on the floor in there and shoot up

379
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Speaker 1: at the individual? Because there's all possibilities that have to

380
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Speaker 1: be entertained in this environment, and each day, each one

381
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Speaker 1: of these layers has to be removed. And we're just

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Speaker 1: talking about the gunshot. We're not talking about the blood

383
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Speaker 1: deposition each that would have to be examined by somebody

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Speaker 1: separate to that. Okay, so you've got people examining the

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Speaker 1: trajectories of the rounds, the range of fire. Did they

386
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Speaker 1: fire from wherein two to three inches or were they

387
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Speaker 1: eighteen inches back when they fired? Is there any kind

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Speaker 1: of deposition on the bedclothes, assuming that it passed for

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Speaker 1: bed clothes, where you've got powder deposition, you can get

390
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: a range of fire on it. Well, this looks like

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Speaker 1: because because I've got unburned gunpowder in this area. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this looks like maybe there were a foot away when

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Speaker 1: they fired. That's powerful stuff, you know. And then you

394
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Speaker 1: have the assessment of the blood. Also, here's something else

395
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Speaker 1: that's quite fascinating to me. Let me ask you a question.

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Speaker 3: Brother.

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Speaker 1: I know that this is a fact because both you

398
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Speaker 1: and I live in Alabama. Have you ever had a

399
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Speaker 1: lightning bolt hit outside your house and the thunder was

400
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Speaker 1: so strong and you were in a dead sleep and

401
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: suddenly you were not in a dead sleep, and you're saying,

402
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 1: what in the hell just happened? It's at the end

403
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: of the world. Well, imagine you're laying in bed and

404
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: a rifle shot cracks off or a gunshot cracks off

405
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're going to have like this

406
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: kind of foggy awareness. I've often wondered about these cases

407
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 1: where people in close proximity reactive. How how did they react?

408
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: Because is it in this case they say that they

409
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: don't have a weapon. I think my question is that

410
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Speaker 1: more than one weapon. Was it done simultaneously or was

411
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Speaker 1: it the same weapon? Because they haven't released it, I

412
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 1: don't know if it's semi automatic. We've got multiple spent casings,

413
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Speaker 1: at the scene. They're saying multiple gunshots. So do you

414
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Speaker 1: have multiple spent casings at the scene that are bounced around?

415
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Speaker 1: You got spent brassets all over the floor or laying

416
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Speaker 1: on top of the comforter or that stuff.

417
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Speaker 3: You have to figure out. You have to way to

418
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Speaker 3: answer all those questions.

419
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Speaker 1: Before you can ever listen, before you can ever touch

420
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Speaker 1: the bodies.

421
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Speaker 2: At the scene.

422
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Speaker 1: You have to understand that I had I had a

423
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Speaker 1: friend of mine that I have a distinct memory. He

424
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Speaker 1: had a small.

425
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Speaker 2: He was so fastidious.

426
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Speaker 1: He had a small a metal detector and he would

427
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: run it. If he had a case involving beds and sheets,

428
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: they would run this thing over that. And I only

429
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: saw him do it once. And it is actually and

430
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Speaker 1: he did find a spent casing in the in the bed,

431
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: and it seems practical, right. You know, of course you

432
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: can get you can get hits on other things in

433
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: the bed, depend upon how the bed is structured, any

434
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: kind of metallic object in there. But you don't know

435
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: because so many things have been hidden. I mean, let's

436
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: face it, Dave, how many times I can tell you

437
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: Kim and I you know what the discussion is. Every

438
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: single night we're laying in bed together and we've got

439
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: this huge TV that hangs on the way. Not again,

440
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: what our discussion always is.

441
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 3: Come on, Joe, not a yet.

442
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: It's okay, where's the remote? You can't find it because

443
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: wallow it up. Just imagine now that you're looking for

444
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: a lead core, projectile or brass that's contained in that wadding,

445
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: that wad bed clothes that are all kind of wrapped around.

446
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: It's very it's very complex stuff you want to try

447
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: to understand. Like, for instance, if somebody is shot in bed,

448
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: did they immediately die or did they writhe around in

449
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: pain because they're bleeding out and you've got you don't

450
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: just have like dynamic blood deposition where it's like a

451
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: high velocity. You've got now you've got these kind of

452
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: smears where they've rolled around in it. Just imagine if

453
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 1: you get paint on your shoulder and you take that

454
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: paint and you contact a clean wall and you rub

455
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: your well, that doesn't look the same as like spray.

456
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: This looks completely different. That's a contact where it smears

457
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: across the surface. When you get these smears in the

458
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: bed as well, and that you can't just merely dismiss

459
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: that You'll see people that have had full awareness that

460
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: they've been shot, had people where they have placed a

461
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: hand over a defect in their own body, dave and

462
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: gotten that blood on their own hand and then smeared

463
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: it adjacent to their own body, and you can see

464
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: their own handprint in their own blood because they're trying

465
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: to stem or they're trying to figure out where they're shot.

466
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: Then they're trying to stem the bleeding. So yeah, it's.

467
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: A nutty environment to be in. And you have to.

468
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: Look if your daughter's having a dance, recitle, your kid's

469
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: having a baseball game, you've got bills that are due,

470
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: you've got problems at home. You have to check all

471
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: that stuff at the door because you have to be

472
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: completely on your game when you walk into that room, because,

473
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: let's face it, you never know what's hiding, evenly in

474
00:28:50,480 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: bed immediately adjacent to you. Patricide is such an odd term.

475
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: I mean, we have, you know, all kinds of terms

476
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: for many things involving death, but Patrick's side is kind

477
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: of chilling when you think about it. It's the killing

478
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: of one's own parent or parents. I've worked many cases

479
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: as an investigator. I think probably one of the most

480
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: over the top. I had a guy that was the

481
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: son of a local dentist in the whole family worked

482
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: in the dental office save this one guy. His sister

483
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: worked there, his mom and dad. His dad was the dentist,

484
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: mom had always been the receptionist. And he just came

485
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: into his dad's office and murdered every single one of

486
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: them there, and then went to.

487
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: Their family.

488
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: Church, their parish and parked in the parking lot and

489
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: shot himself there. And there were this guy his back seat.

490
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: They was literally full of weapons, full of weapons, and

491
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: his sister was really weird. I'll never forget this. His sister,

492
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: she looked like what your image of snow white would be.

493
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: She had like I'll never forget. She had this kind

494
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: of ivory colored skin and jet black air and it

495
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: was bobbed, and we went to examine her body in

496
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: the morgue. She was wearing a bra and she had

497
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: about forty Saint Christopher metals pinned to her bra, and she.

498
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: Was really big.

499
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: The family was really They had a family altar in

500
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: the house. They also had an indoor pool. I'll never

501
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: forget this, and the pool was completely covered with green scum.

502
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: Hadn't been swimming in years. But the violence that he

503
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: exacted on his family, it reaches another level. You know.

504
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: That's why we always talk about things like overkill. It

505
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,719
Speaker 1: reaches another level because you've got that element of anger

506
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: and whatever's going on, the psychopathology that's going on, and

507
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: all of that stuff coupled and it is a danger storm.

508
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: And we've said it before, this is why cops are

509
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: so brave because they got on domestic calls and you

510
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: never know what you're walking into. You're literally walking if

511
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: you think, being around strangers that don't know one another

512
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: and they you know, we see these things on videos

513
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: all the time where people are attacking total strangers. Nothing

514
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: matches or compares to family violence. And you know, we've

515
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: we've had a lot of these cases over the years,

516
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: Gypsy Rose Blanchard, for instance. You know, I didn't think

517
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: that we would. And there's still milk in this case.

518
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

519
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: The media is you know, I don't know how many

520
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: individual stories have been told about it.

521
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 3: You know, Joe. A lot of it has to do

522
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: with the media getting involved and getting sucked into a story.

523
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 3: In the case of Gypsy Rose Blanchard and her mother

524
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: because her mother milked it from multiple communities and beyond

525
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 3: the fact that it was Munchausen by proxy maybe to

526
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 3: a degree. But then it became a big con and

527
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 3: then they were both in on the con, mother and daughter.

528
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 3: But the daughter was so physically and mentally and psychologically

529
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 3: and emotionally abused that I don't even know what her

530
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: culpability is in the con but it was enough to

531
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 3: drive her to murdering her mother, you know, because she

532
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: didn't want to be treated like a child anymore. She

533
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 3: was a young adult.

534
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: And yeah, I submit to you. I've always felt with

535
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: that case in particular, that it's dangerous to do any

536
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: kind of comparison. I know, but she essentially prostituted her

537
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: own daughter, And there's different types of prostitution obviously, when

538
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: you have this child that when.

539
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: She was a child, she was taught to behave as as.

540
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: She was younger than she was and went through unnecessary surgeries.

541
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: And I can't begin to imagine the idea that she

542
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: had her salbrated glands removed just in himself. If that

543
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: doesn't make you angry, I don't know what now doesn't

544
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: justify what happened. No, and she drug this kid into

545
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: this thing who has his own problems.

546
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 3: And he ends up going to prison the rest of

547
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: his life. And she's already out of jail, married and

548
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: had a child. Yeah, I know, gives you Rose's mom's dad.

549
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: But and somebody else that's in the news right now

550
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: are the Menindez brothers.

551
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you know, and.

552
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: Listen, they've been found guilty of a double homicide of

553
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: their parents. You talk about high velocity, You're talking about

554
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: both mom and dad being shotgunned to death in front

555
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: of their kids. But yet, you know, you know, I've

556
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: done my time. I'm coming out, you know, tied the

557
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: yellow ribbon around the old oak tree. And you know

558
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: there's still people that you know, and I'll have people

559
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: will send me private messages and say, hey, when are

560
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: you going to cover the Meninde's case, because you know

561
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: it's in the news and all that sort of thing. Well,

562
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: I think everything has kind of been said about that

563
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: from a forensic standpoint, they blasted both of their parents

564
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: to death with twelve gage shotgun.

565
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 3: And parents were sitting on a couch.

566
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, you know, not you know, beyond that, it

567
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 1: doesn't hold much interest, you know, for me, I think

568
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: about that other than.

569
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,479
Speaker 3: The idea that they're going to get out of jail

570
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: probably you know.

571
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, they probably will.

572
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: And then of course I would you know, I would say, well,

573
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: what kind of example is the setting for anybody else

574
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: that's thinking about this.

575
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: You know, there's a thing that we used to refer

576
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: to as deterrent.

577
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and somebody's sentencing is actually meant to be a deterrence,

578
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: not just to them committing a further crime, but as

579
00:34:58,760 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: an example of what not.

580
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: To do, or you'll pay this, you'll pay this price.

581
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 3: The thing that really bothers me about this, and it's

582
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: because we know that in the Meninda's brother's case, we

583
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: know that they what they did after they got the money.

584
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 3: We know that's what they wanted. They were spoiled, rotten

585
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 3: brats whose dad was saying, you guys got to do

586
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 3: something to earn this.

587
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: You know.

588
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 3: Then they came up with the idea that okay, wait

589
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 3: a minute, we need sympathy. He was abusing us. You know, well,

590
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 3: the guy's dead. He can't answer for himself. You know,

591
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 3: there could be no investigation because you killed the guy.

592
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 3: Now you claim he was abusing you, and there's no

593
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 3: record of this. There was nothing there and you're going

594
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 3: to get out of prison because of this idea that

595
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,760
Speaker 3: thirty years later we forgot, We for we lost our soul,

596
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 3: we forgot the truth, we forgot the forensics. We just

597
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: forgot everything in thirty years. And by the way, both

598
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 3: the Meninda's brothers have gotten married behind bars, right and

599
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 3: not to men that they shared a cell with. We're

600
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 3: talking about women, you know. I'm just tired of seeing

601
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 3: these things get turned around.

602
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: Oh and while we're on the into brothers and abuse

603
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: prediction prediction, you can go write this down and file

604
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: it away for future reference. Sarah Grace Patrick, My prediction

605
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: is is it the defense team that she is assigned

606
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: to or is given or whatever the case, the term

607
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: abuse is going to come up. I can see it

608
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: coming a mile away. I know that that's going to

609
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: be an explanation for whatever happened. It's it's like the

610
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: fallback point. But talk about talk about over the top.

611
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: Do you remember a couple of years back and I

612
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: know that I covered this on body Bags, I just

613
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: can't remember when. And that's the Heather of Matt case,

614
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: where you know you've got this this girl whose dad

615
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: had died because of some kind of food infection or

616
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: something had happened, and she was left with her mother.

617
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: They had money, and they're in ba of all places

618
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: now they were originally I think, Dave correct me if

619
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, they were from Chicago.

620
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 3: Chicago.

621
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and at that house with Heather Mack and her mother,

622
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: I think there had been over eighty domestic disturbance calls that.

623
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 3: I had to cover this story ad nauseam because it

624
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 3: was that ridiculous. Joe, But yeah, she was horrible to

625
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: her mother. I'm not saying her mother was an angel

626
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 3: by any stretch of the imagination, but Heather Mack obviously

627
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 3: was a spoiled brat who just acted out physically, emotionally

628
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 3: and just terrorized her own mother. And by the way,

629
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 3: the reason they were in Bali was because Heather was

630
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 3: dating this guy the mom didn't approve of, didn't want

631
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 3: her to be involved, and Heather had decided, Okay, we'll

632
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: go on this vacation. Mom, it's just going to be us.

633
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 3: That's what her mother wanted, just my daughter and I

634
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: away from all of the other bad stuff. Let's get

635
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,479
Speaker 3: let's get our heart back together. All the while Heather

636
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 3: plans on sneaking her boyfriend there on mom's dime. You

637
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: know she paid me her credit card.

638
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I'm sure that was an inexpensive flight. And

639
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 1: then the mother to death with the metal object, stuff

640
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: her into a suitcase. And if I'm correct me if

641
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but they were waiting for a taxi day

642
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: with Mom's body inside of a suitcase. And there is

643
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: blood that's draining out of the scene onto the sidewalk.

644
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, it had leached out. I don't

645
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: know if that's accurate or not. I can't remember, but

646
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: I know that they had her stuffed inside of a.

647
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: Suitcase out there, Yes they did.

648
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: And you know so again, this idea of killing one's

649
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: parents is nothing new under the sun. But I can

650
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: tell you this from what we understand, Dave, and I'll

651
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: let you expand on this just a wee bit. There

652
00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: has been some conversation that implies that there may be

653
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: more than Sarah Grace Patrick involved in this double homicide.

654
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: Can you was actually brought up at the press conference. Yeah,

655
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: they actually during the press conference announcing the arrest. Now,

656
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,720
Speaker 3: remember you mentioned earlier, this has gone on for several months.

657
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 3: The murder is the double homicide happened on February twentieth,

658
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, with no forced entry. Parents are dead,

659
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 3: two girls, a sixteen year old and a five year

660
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 3: old in the house at the time. Police are called

661
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,439
Speaker 3: and a small community, as you outlined, and people wanted

662
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 3: answers who did this? How did it happen? And the

663
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 3: police they played it very close to the vest and

664
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: when they finally made the arrest, they announced that they

665
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: had arrested now seventeen year old Sarah Grace Patrick. And

666
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 3: when the press conference was ongoing, there was a question,

667
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: you know, is it closed this and they're like, no,

668
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: there might be more arrests. They left it at that.

669
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 3: They did not go into it. But you know, police

670
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 3: are they like to say, this is it. There is

671
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 3: nothing else, this is the this is the culprit, this

672
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 3: is the person we suspect did all of this. There

673
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 3: isn't anything else to see. We're focused on this. Yeah, yes,

674
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 3: that's what they said, safely tonight, right. They want to

675
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: say that.

676
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: They didn't and that was the thing I think that

677
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: you picked up on. I don't want to put word

678
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: to them out. No, Yeah, they didn't go to any

679
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: links to kind of reassure the public.

680
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: Did they not at all?

681
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, when I got it, because

682
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: I expected it, you know, having been covering this stuff

683
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 3: for a long time, you expect please say, no, she

684
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: acted alone, or we have the other person in custody

685
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 3: as well. I mean that's not what they Yeah, but

686
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 3: not here. Here they were like, no, there might be

687
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 3: more arrests, We're not done. This is still And that's

688
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 3: when when the police stop answering questions, say hey, this

689
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 3: is an ongoing investigation. That's when you're going, Okay, she

690
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 3: had help. She had to have help at this and

691
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: we don't know who it is or anything else. But

692
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: you just got to remember that they don't have the

693
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 3: weapon they're we're aware of yet we don't know. They

694
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 3: haven't said yes, we have the murder weapon. We just

695
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: know that in a murder suicide, the weapon would be

696
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 3: right there. And that's not what they found.

697
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you begin to think about the sixteen

698
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: year old, how how do they have access to a firearm? Ye?

699
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: And look, I mean there's a lot of a lot

700
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: of families that have a lot of firearms, but that's

701
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: the key here. Yeah, did her stepfather own a weapon

702
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: and if he owned a weapon, was the weapon still

703
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: contained at the scene, was it secured, had it not

704
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: been fired? Or was a weapon or weapons plural brought

705
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: into this home.

706
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 3: I did want to ask you something, Joe, Yeah, bud Well,

707
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: something did come up. Was that Jamie Brock, the stepfather,

708
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 3: forty five year old dad, he actually had a bad heart. Yeah,

709
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 3: and he was awaiting a heart transplant. He'd had several

710
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 3: surgeries and he he had something was installed in his body.

711
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: I can't remember what it was called, the Dad, Dad.

712
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: It's a left ventricular assistance device. The and if you

713
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: think about the you know, our heart has four chambers,

714
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: right and left ventricle, right and left atrium, and the

715
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: left ventricle had it's presenting with problems. It's beginning to

716
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: shut down on him. And there's all kinds of manifestations

717
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: you can have, you know, with you can have wall thickening,

718
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: you can have left centricular hypertrophy is what it's referred to,

719
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: and that means that it becomes really flabby. There's any

720
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: number of things, and I'm just scratching the surface.

721
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 2: But he was a.

722
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: Candidate, He's a serious candidate for a heart transplant. So

723
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: he's in a and he's this poor man's gone through

724
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: multiple surgeries, you know, over a period of time. He's

725
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's in a weak ined state, but

726
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: he you know, on the surf it, you know. And

727
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: he's got family members on his side of the family,

728
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: a niece in particular that he loved greatly, that he

729
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 1: had had contact with. His sons has been very vocal

730
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: in his support.

731
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 3: Well, you know, when you get down to the nitty

732
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 3: gritty of a small community, a lot of people have

733
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: had because apparently Jamie Brock had been wild from time

734
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: to time, I guess it's the best way to put it.

735
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 3: But he and his wife Kristin, they've been taken to

736
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 3: a church, you know, by some neighbors that they became

737
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 3: close to. And if you've ever fallen in love with

738
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 3: a church home and gotten plugged in where it's just

739
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 3: a really good fit, it changes your world. And that's

740
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 3: what happened with Jamie and Kristen. Their world change when

741
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 3: they got plugged into this church to the point where

742
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 3: this man who's waiting to have a heart transplant goes

743
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 3: and steam cleans the carpet at the church that's the

744
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 3: kind of man he is, and the family of saying,

745
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 3: look at this, you know this guy is a good guy.

746
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 3: What happened Meanwhile? He said the one thing that he

747
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 3: Jamie told his niece Sarah Grace Patrick is not who

748
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 3: you think she is. And I thought that's pretty important

749
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 3: because usually outside of our four walls, inside of our home,

750
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 3: when we talked to our loved ones, our family members,

751
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 3: if they have nice things to say about our family,

752
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 3: we don't contradict them because most of us want them

753
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 3: to know, we want them to think everything inside our

754
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 3: house is peachy. Keene man, we don't want to hang

755
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 3: our dirty laundry out unless it's really bad. And he

756
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 3: did say, she's not what you think she is, not

757
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 3: what you think she is, and I thought, Oh, that

758
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 3: just makes my blood run cold.

759
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:47,479
Speaker 2: That hurts, it does.

760
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: And apparently, oh what the police saw when they walked

761
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: in to that bedroom that morning and those two souls

762
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: had departed this earth and were lying in blood in

763
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: their bed, went some distance to potentially verify that supposition.

764
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs