WEBVTT - Student Loan Chaos Explained w/ Stanley Tate #1094

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and today we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking student loan chaos. We're explaining it with Stanley Tait. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So the whiplash that student loan borrowers have experienced over

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<v Speaker 1>the past few years has been staggering payments paused forgiveness,

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<v Speaker 1>promised forgiveness blocked, then repayment systems completely rewritten, and now

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<v Speaker 1>for some is wage carnis back on the table. Well

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<v Speaker 1>maybe we'll get to that today with Stanley. It's just

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<v Speaker 1>no wonder though, that navigating student loans has become this

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<v Speaker 1>specialized skill, and few people know the landscape better than

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney Stanley Tate. He has helped hundreds of borrowers get

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<v Speaker 1>out of default, qualify for forgiveness programs, secure affordable payments,

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<v Speaker 1>and to go shape settlements. He's even helped people discharge

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<v Speaker 1>student loans in bankruptcy. And he's helping people through his blog,

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<v Speaker 1>his newsletter, his videos, just offering really helpful guidance to

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<v Speaker 1>a bunch of folks out there. So with all the

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<v Speaker 1>recent changes and confusion, knew we needed his insight on

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<v Speaker 1>how to Money. So Stanley Tate, thank you for joining

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<v Speaker 1>me on the show today.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, first question out of the gate, what do

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<v Speaker 1>you like to suplore John? What's your craft bear equivalent?

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<v Speaker 1>I know you're doing smart stuff with your money, Stanley,

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<v Speaker 1>for your future, but you got to have some spurts

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<v Speaker 1>in the here and now. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>The splurge more recently has been on cigars. I joined

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<v Speaker 2>a cigar lounge a few months ago and I'm really

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<v Speaker 2>enjoying kind of like that pastime and being able to

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<v Speaker 2>bond and fellowship with other people in shaer bourbers while

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<v Speaker 2>smoking a stick. It's very relaxing there you go.

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<v Speaker 1>That sounds like a nice way to wind down after

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<v Speaker 1>a tough day of helping helping people out with their

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<v Speaker 1>student loan questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man, absolutely, Just just being able to zone out

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<v Speaker 2>and not have to think deeply about other people and

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<v Speaker 2>what's happening in the world and what's going on. That's perfect, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>mechanism for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes we got to check out. That sounds like a

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<v Speaker 1>lovely way to spend your time and money. Let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>student loans though. Can you lay the framework of what's

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<v Speaker 1>happening right now for the average student loan borrower? Like

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<v Speaker 1>I know this is kind of a big question. But

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<v Speaker 1>where do things stand right now on the in the

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<v Speaker 1>student loan space from a macro perspective?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, So you know that that's a really good question,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm never quite sure how to enter it because

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<v Speaker 2>what's happening really depends or what you perceive is happening,

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<v Speaker 2>depends on kind of your station in life. So if

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<v Speaker 2>you're a new borrower, like someone just graduating, entering the

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<v Speaker 2>payment market, like nothing really feels like it's happened, because

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<v Speaker 2>none of this stuff is applied to you, or at

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<v Speaker 2>least it doesn't feel that way. And if you're someone

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<v Speaker 2>who's had your loans for two plus decades and you

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<v Speaker 2>watch rounds and rounds of people get loan forgiveness and

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<v Speaker 2>get somehow you excluded, it feels like everything is happening,

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<v Speaker 2>yet nothing has happened to you. And the way I

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<v Speaker 2>look at it today is that we've had a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of change since COVID March twenty twenty through today, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's been very tumultuous. Where As you kind of kicked

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<v Speaker 2>us off that things have been one way forgiveness promise

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<v Speaker 2>forgiveness taken away, repayment plan promise repayment plan taken away,

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<v Speaker 2>and it just feels very dynamic environment, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>we're in a very static environment right now where the

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<v Speaker 2>Education Department under the Trump administration has made their major

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<v Speaker 2>policy change by effectively killing the saved plan and leaving

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<v Speaker 2>us with income based repayment option, and this new plan

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<v Speaker 2>coming down the pipeline is like your two primary options

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<v Speaker 2>moving forward, and forgiveness programs day still exists, Public service

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<v Speaker 2>loan forgiveness is still there, Twenty to twenty five year

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<v Speaker 2>forgiveness is still there, and so nothing's really changed along

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<v Speaker 2>those lines. Now there's some big changes happening with borrowing

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<v Speaker 2>for future people, future generations, but that doesn't really have

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<v Speaker 2>anything to do with your repayment if forgiveness options for

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<v Speaker 2>federals to loans, those of all stayed the same. And

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<v Speaker 2>so if I were looking at it, say, I'll just

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<v Speaker 2>say there's been a lot of dynamic things, but actually

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<v Speaker 2>much is the same for you moving forward, broadly speaking.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the things I feel like in the

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<v Speaker 1>past couple of weeks that we've talked about on the

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<v Speaker 1>show that seems like it's a big deal was the

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<v Speaker 1>threat of wage garnishment notice is being sent out right

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<v Speaker 1>and so this month people were supposed to receive letters

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<v Speaker 1>in the mail saying, hey, guess what you are. You've

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<v Speaker 1>been in default, like you haven't paid your loan two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and seventy plus days, and so we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>start taking money from your paycheck, maybe even from probably

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<v Speaker 1>from your tax refund as well. Why do you think

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<v Speaker 1>the Education Department pulled back on that? And how nervous

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<v Speaker 1>should borrowers who haven't paid their balance in paid on

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<v Speaker 1>their loan in a long time, how nervous should they be?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, a few questions insider are but one thing I

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<v Speaker 2>want to make clear kind from the beginning is that

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<v Speaker 2>Barrows and Default have had three plush years of opportunity

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<v Speaker 2>to get out of default without consequence. And so if

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<v Speaker 2>you're someone who's still worrying about this today, I think

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<v Speaker 2>we have a larger problem about Okay, what does that

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<v Speaker 2>mean for you to like, what will it take for

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<v Speaker 2>you to get out of default? Finally, that's one part.

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<v Speaker 2>Now there's a consequence part of it decide, But I

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<v Speaker 2>think there's a core question of like what does that

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<v Speaker 2>even mean? Which I think goes beyond the scope put

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<v Speaker 2>its call. But it's just something that troubles me because

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<v Speaker 2>We've had these different programs. Fresh Start program, we had

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<v Speaker 2>the on ramp opportunity, they still gave Barros opportunity to

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<v Speaker 2>get out of fault. Then we had another year after

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<v Speaker 2>that for Bars to get out of the fault. And

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<v Speaker 2>now finally, when wage garnishment notices go out, people start

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<v Speaker 2>to freak out, like, oh my god, my wage's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>be garnished. And yet the Department of Education pulled back.

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<v Speaker 2>In your first question there is why did they do that?

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<v Speaker 2>And I think this goes back to affordability. This administration

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<v Speaker 2>is struggling with affordability kind of concerns, and so now

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to take out the one kind of resource

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<v Speaker 2>that people rely on to either catch themselves up on

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<v Speaker 2>bills or to get ahead a little bit, or stock

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<v Speaker 2>something away for a vacation or something else like that.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I think that could be really poor, a

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<v Speaker 2>really bad look, especially ahead of the midterms. The Department

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<v Speaker 2>of Education collects something like sixty percent of its revenue

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<v Speaker 2>for default and lungs through wage through tax refund offset.

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<v Speaker 2>So I just don't think that would be a good look.

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<v Speaker 2>But I don't think it has anything more with timing,

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<v Speaker 2>because Bars have been given enough time notice ahead of time.

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<v Speaker 1>So political calculation.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't know what other explanation there would be, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have any insight into this, but you would

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<v Speaker 2>say stopping it would be, oh, we need opportunity to

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<v Speaker 2>get our systems up and running. But the Treasury offset

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<v Speaker 2>program was always up and running unless Doge or some

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<v Speaker 2>other actor went in there and cut it and kind

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<v Speaker 2>of dismantled it and they found out later. That's also

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<v Speaker 2>a possibility, but I think the more likely thing is

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<v Speaker 2>this is not a good look for us from an

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<v Speaker 2>affordability standpoint.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm going to read you a line that I

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<v Speaker 1>found interesting in the press release when they said they

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<v Speaker 1>were going to pause wage carsmen. They said that it

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<v Speaker 1>will function more efficiently and fairly after the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 1>implements significant improvements to our broken student loan system. What

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<v Speaker 1>do you think they mean by that?

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<v Speaker 2>No clue, what does that even mean? Because like the

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<v Speaker 2>collections for offset are done by the Department of Treasury,

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<v Speaker 2>it just flagged through there. So it literally is just

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<v Speaker 2>clicking a button and taking a flag on or off

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<v Speaker 2>to keep that money or to do this. So fixing

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<v Speaker 2>a broken student losses when you're saying that did we

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<v Speaker 2>miss like identify borros for default. I haven't seen that either,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm not sure what that means other than another

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<v Speaker 2>dig at past administrations. And to be fair to this administration,

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<v Speaker 2>the system is broken. It has been broken for years,

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<v Speaker 2>and we built a very complex product that is needed

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<v Speaker 2>tweaks in kind of revision and is cracked under its

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<v Speaker 2>own weight.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think that's so true. And then every

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<v Speaker 1>time we try to get it back on track, like,

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<v Speaker 1>we do it in half measures.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even know what the right full measure is,

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<v Speaker 2>right like, and sorry to go aside here, but I

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<v Speaker 2>always tell people, like, the reality is an educated population

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<v Speaker 2>is good for the entire economy of the United States

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<v Speaker 2>and global economy, and so it is equivalent to a

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<v Speaker 2>public utility. And yet we don't treat it like a

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<v Speaker 2>public utility where we subsidize the cost directly. Instead, we

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<v Speaker 2>pass it onto the backs of bars and taxpayers. And

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<v Speaker 2>then we create these different programs that shield the Department

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<v Speaker 2>of Educations books from these offsets for kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>the subsidies for years until the bill becomes due down

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<v Speaker 2>the line, and will deal with it there. And is

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<v Speaker 2>it possible that we actually just need to consider that

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<v Speaker 2>higher education, at least at certain institutions, should be free,

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<v Speaker 2>and we may have to pay a higher tax rate

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<v Speaker 2>to get that done.

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<v Speaker 1>But that aside, No, no, I appreciate that. What would

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<v Speaker 1>you say to somebody who is in default. They've seen

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<v Speaker 1>those headlines and maybe they haven't even recognized or realized that,

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<v Speaker 1>oh wait, they're not going to start garnishing my wages.

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<v Speaker 1>Should how should they start preparing?

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<v Speaker 2>I think the very first thing I would do is

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<v Speaker 2>actually confront a head on. But I am a confronted

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<v Speaker 2>head on person by nature, but I can understand kind

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<v Speaker 2>of emotional psychologically, it could be a lot to think

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<v Speaker 2>about this debt and like the impossibility of it all

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<v Speaker 2>because oftentimes the people I meet they defaulted because they

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<v Speaker 2>felt like there weren't any other payment options. But they

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<v Speaker 2>defaulted so long ago. The rules have changed so much

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<v Speaker 2>that to just stay stuck and believe that there are

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<v Speaker 2>no options today, I think it is a wrong approach.

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<v Speaker 2>So I would say, if I were doing this, the

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<v Speaker 2>very first thing I'll do is contact Default Resolution Group

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<v Speaker 2>or student a dot Gov and look at your loans

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<v Speaker 2>and then identify what will my payment options be? If

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<v Speaker 2>I were to get out of default using one of

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<v Speaker 2>the programs that the Education Department offers, and then the

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<v Speaker 2>next question is can I afford that payment? And the

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<v Speaker 2>answer is yes, cool, I think that's a very strong

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<v Speaker 2>vote in favor in getting out of the fault. If

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<v Speaker 2>you say no, I can't, then you need to run

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<v Speaker 2>a math on what is it going to cost you

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<v Speaker 2>if you were being garnished in offset to say can

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<v Speaker 2>I afford that? If I can't afford that, then even

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<v Speaker 2>if I really can't afford to get out of default,

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<v Speaker 2>that's probably the better mathematical option for me, even if

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<v Speaker 2>it sucks for several months while I kind of dig

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<v Speaker 2>myself out this thing. And then kind of the last

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<v Speaker 2>thing from there is like, if you run all the

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<v Speaker 2>analysis and you can't get out of default, you can't

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<v Speaker 2>afford the garnishment, then it's a tougher conversation about, well,

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<v Speaker 2>how does bankruptcy work here to help me with this thing?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that actually a workable solution?

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about that, And maybe now is

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<v Speaker 1>the best time to talk about that, because it does

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<v Speaker 1>seem like for the longest time, discharging your student loans

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<v Speaker 1>and bankruptcy was almost impossible, and the Biden administration did

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<v Speaker 1>make some changes that might be one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>the longest lasting or or biggest changes that could help

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<v Speaker 1>people who really really can't afford to pay their student loans.

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<v Speaker 1>What's happening on the bankruptcy front and discharging loans via

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<v Speaker 1>bankruptcy in twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the law itself hasn't changed all that much. So

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<v Speaker 2>the law basically says that you can file bankruptcy and

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<v Speaker 2>get rid of all your other debts for the most part,

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<v Speaker 2>except for student loans, and only way to get rid

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<v Speaker 2>of those is if you can show that repaying them

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<v Speaker 2>are undue hardship. And that's been the law going back

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<v Speaker 2>to like two thousand and four nineteen ninety seven as well,

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<v Speaker 2>but kind of evolved. The last time it really changed

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<v Speaker 2>to two thousand and five, the bid administration implemented a

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<v Speaker 2>law that was actually kind of brought up by Republicans

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<v Speaker 2>through George Bush administration. Second that says, Okay, we're not

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<v Speaker 2>going to set aside the law here, but we're going

0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.160
<v Speaker 2>to create a different policy. Ultimately, Department of Education, we

0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.760
<v Speaker 2>own our loans. Maybe we could work out a policy

0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.760
<v Speaker 2>about how we will analyze these and do a recommendation

0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.240
<v Speaker 2>to the bankruptcy court about how this case should be handled.

0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Changing the law, We're just changing how we view this

0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.559
<v Speaker 2>particular situation. And so they created this process called the

0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:11.599
<v Speaker 2>attestation process, which is basically just a sworn statement that

0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.640
<v Speaker 2>you work out. After you file the bankruptcy to discharge

0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.839
<v Speaker 2>of student loans, you fill out this attestation form that

0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:23.840
<v Speaker 2>discloses your assets, your living expenses, the history of your loans, education, etc.

0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.720
<v Speaker 2>And you give that over to the Department of Justice

0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 2>who represents the Department of Education. That DOJ attorney reviews

0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.880
<v Speaker 2>your file and makes a recommendation to the Department of

0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.839
<v Speaker 2>Education that yeah, we should get rid of all of it,

0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:37.679
<v Speaker 2>we should get rid of some of it, or we

0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't get rid of any of it, and then based

0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.319
<v Speaker 2>on the recommendation, your case moves forward. Now there's a

0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.960
<v Speaker 2>big kind of a report in the New York Times

0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.680
<v Speaker 2>recently where they said, like eighty seven percent of ours

0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.800
<v Speaker 2>who went through this process were able to get some relief,

0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.800
<v Speaker 2>either partial discharge or full of discharge. And so, yeah,

0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.640
<v Speaker 2>it has become theoretically easier, at least with federal student

0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.880
<v Speaker 2>loans owned by the Department of Education to file bankruptcy

0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.080
<v Speaker 2>on them. Now, does that mean everyone needs to rush

0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 2>out and go file bankruptcy. Absolutely not. And does that

0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.520
<v Speaker 2>mean that if you file bankerancy you have an eighty

0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.079
<v Speaker 2>seven percent chance of success. No, it's just saying that

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.520
<v Speaker 2>based off of this category, bars will file. They had

0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.080
<v Speaker 2>a really high success rate. Now, there are some things

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.840
<v Speaker 2>that make people, you know, more ideal candidate for those

0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.480
<v Speaker 2>than others. But that's really what happened. There's not a

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.839
<v Speaker 2>change in law, just a change in policy, and it

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.760
<v Speaker 2>has worked out really well for those bars who fit

0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:28.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of some qualifications.

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.520
<v Speaker 1>And you say not forevery like if someone out there

0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.400
<v Speaker 1>listening has a solid job and can afford their student

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.439
<v Speaker 1>loan payment reasonably, well, they're probably not going to be

0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.640
<v Speaker 1>a candidate for getting their student loans discharge and bankas well. Yeah.

0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:43.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. That's hard because there are some of

0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.600
<v Speaker 2>your listeners who are quote unquote high earners, but they're

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.600
<v Speaker 2>single and they live in a high cost of living

0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 2>city and it feels very impossible to make their rental

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 2>payment or a mortgage payment and pay their student loans

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.559
<v Speaker 2>and pay or other bills. So I wouldn't define it

0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.920
<v Speaker 2>like in terms of Okay, categorically, you don't make it

0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.439
<v Speaker 2>because you have a quote unquote good job. The way

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.000
<v Speaker 2>I think about it is a little bit more nuanced.

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.160
<v Speaker 2>But let me give you an extreme example. There's this

0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:12.320
<v Speaker 2>case out of Ohio where this young man graduates college

0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.920
<v Speaker 2>and then files bankruptcy a year later. And this just

0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.199
<v Speaker 2>happened like a few months ago. He files bankrucy and

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.840
<v Speaker 2>tries to discharge his stude loans and the Department of

0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:21.760
<v Speaker 2>Education departments just like, get out of here. You haven't

0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>made a good faith to repay your loans. So no

0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 2>matter what his hardship was, it was only short lasting.

0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.760
<v Speaker 2>He just graduated. That's not a good candidate. Someone who

0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.520
<v Speaker 2>is a good candidate. Maybe at the other extreme, you

0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 2>are in your late sixties and you've had your loans

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.600
<v Speaker 2>for twenty years and your income is fixed and there's

0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.920
<v Speaker 2>no possible way you could ever pay these loans off.

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.920
<v Speaker 2>That's a good example. And then there's a middle ground.

0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.600
<v Speaker 2>There's someone who may be earning ninety thousand dollars a year,

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:55.080
<v Speaker 2>but they're divorced, they're paying child support to their ex,

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.720
<v Speaker 2>and their monthly bill is still fifteen hundred dollars a month.

0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Hundred student loans and they're like, I cannot do this

0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 2>while upholding all my other obligations. That may be someone

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:09.040
<v Speaker 2>who is worth having a conversation about. Even though they

0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 2>have a good job and they're not really broke, they

0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 2>just can't keep up and if something does happen, life happens,

0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 2>everything falls apart. That's someone to have a good conversation with.

0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.560
<v Speaker 1>Is and is that a dili process? Lets someone let's

0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.600
<v Speaker 1>say someone's identifies themselves in a position like you're describing,

0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 1>and they're like, yeah, no, like it's it's become almost

0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.040
<v Speaker 1>impossible for me to pay and I don't see a

0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.960
<v Speaker 1>way that I'll ever be able to do. They need

0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.280
<v Speaker 1>to hire a professional, a lawyer who specializes in this,

0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 1>or is this something that they can like they can

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 1>take on the system themselves.

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 2>All right, so let me ask this by way of example.

0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't think anyone should ever perform surgery on it.

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.840
<v Speaker 2>It makes no sense. But could you theoretically represent yourself

0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.200
<v Speaker 2>in this thing? Yeah? And I remember, I've got quotes

0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.480
<v Speaker 2>to build a fence in my backyard, a nice modern verticence,

0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.960
<v Speaker 2>and the quotes I thought were outrageous. They wanted like

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.200
<v Speaker 2>twelve thousand dollars doing I was like, you know what,

0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.960
<v Speaker 2>this is like three thousand dollars worth of kind of

0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 2>materials and maybe two days of labor, and I'll handle

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.000
<v Speaker 2>it myself. And I'm doing this in Saint Louis. It's

0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.600
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and five degrees outside, and I'm mixing twenty

0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.760
<v Speaker 2>five bags of fifty pound bags of concrete by hand

0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.400
<v Speaker 2>because my dumb self didn't realize to get rent a mixer.

0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.360
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, this was a terrible idea. But

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.360
<v Speaker 2>along the way, I get the fence in and the

0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.200
<v Speaker 2>fence looks great, and I'm so proud of myself. Two

0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.360
<v Speaker 2>weeks later when came by and knocked that thing the

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.720
<v Speaker 2>hell over it because I didn't dig the post love enough.

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 2>So did I need a professional that standpoint to get

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.440
<v Speaker 2>a fence up? No? Is it beneficial to kind of

0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.800
<v Speaker 2>plan for things that you don't consider things like that? Absolutely?

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Okay, I appreciate that. I want to talk about

0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.800
<v Speaker 1>income driven repayment plans. Take a quick break and we'll

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 1>talk about the changing system there. In just a second,

0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 1>we're back still talking with Stanley Tate, talking about the

0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.359
<v Speaker 1>student loans and kind of what's happening right now in

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.680
<v Speaker 1>the space, and one of the big changes Stanley is

0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.920
<v Speaker 1>two income driven repayment plans. They keep changing. The SAFE

0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 1>plan gets rolled out and people are like, ooh, thrilled.

0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:17.639
<v Speaker 1>You know, for a lot of people, it's going to

0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.760
<v Speaker 1>mean their their payment is non existent or close to it.

0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.160
<v Speaker 1>And now that's that's not gonna be around much longer.

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.359
<v Speaker 1>I CA it's in the process of being dismantled. What

0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.480
<v Speaker 1>how should borrowers decide which plan is best for them now?

0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.480
<v Speaker 1>Especially with RAP coming down the pike.

0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so the RAP plan is not yet available, but

0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 2>that's the newer payment Assistance plan now is created by

0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.119
<v Speaker 2>the Trump administration that also ties payments based off of

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.439
<v Speaker 2>your income and family size. That'll likely be available sometime

0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.520
<v Speaker 2>this summer. But if you're someone who's in saved and

0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.159
<v Speaker 2>you've been stuck in for bands and you're trying to

0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 2>figure out where to go next, I think everything starts

0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.320
<v Speaker 2>with the numbers. So you start by just running the

0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:58.760
<v Speaker 2>number saying what will my payment be under? The remaining

0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.159
<v Speaker 2>plans for the vast majority of people is going to

0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 2>be income based repayment or pay as you earn are

0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 2>going to be their two primary options there, at least

0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.680
<v Speaker 2>for income based options. And if you look at those

0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.040
<v Speaker 2>numbers and you're like, cool, I can swing this, then

0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 2>you'd likely want to enroll in one of those plans.

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:18.639
<v Speaker 2>The only I say likely because the only kind of

0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 2>factor that changes is if safe, what's cheap enough for

0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:28.760
<v Speaker 2>you where you could realize the benefit of loan forgiveness

0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.560
<v Speaker 2>over time, then it makes sense for you to stay

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.800
<v Speaker 2>in that plan that working towards loan forgiveness. But it

0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:36.720
<v Speaker 2>is possible that you flip over the pay as you

0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.720
<v Speaker 2>learn or IBr that you may not realize the benefit

0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:42.560
<v Speaker 2>of forgiveness or may not have as great as value

0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:44.480
<v Speaker 2>to you, and you may need to switch over to

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.879
<v Speaker 2>a repayment plan not based on your income but actually

0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 2>based on paying it off. And so that's where it

0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.240
<v Speaker 2>gets a little tricky. I think the direct answer for

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.679
<v Speaker 2>most people is are is that you go look at

0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.240
<v Speaker 2>income based repayment or pay as you earn if you're eligible,

0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.479
<v Speaker 2>and just say can I afford the payments? And if

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.720
<v Speaker 2>you can today, then you probably make that switch. And

0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:04.879
<v Speaker 2>if you look at it and say, well, I'm probably

0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:06.679
<v Speaker 2>not going to get a lot of forgiveness over here,

0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:08.639
<v Speaker 2>I'd rather just pay it off. Then you need to

0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.360
<v Speaker 2>look at other plans like extend the graduated your standard

0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.160
<v Speaker 2>that amthortize a debt that paid the loan off over time,

0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.000
<v Speaker 2>rather than relying on forgiveness that you may no longer

0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.399
<v Speaker 2>believe in because of what's happened with strough loans.

0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 1>If you're in forbearance on the safe plan and you

0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 1>know at some point you're going to need to move,

0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.000
<v Speaker 1>you're gonna be forced essentially to get onto another plan.

0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Does it make sense to stay put for the time

0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 1>being or does it make sense to start assessing your

0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:34.800
<v Speaker 1>options and particilarly moving beforehand.

0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.600
<v Speaker 2>For the vast majority of people, it just comes down

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.840
<v Speaker 2>to affordability. Like, once they lock in on what are

0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.200
<v Speaker 2>my plan options, the next question is should I move

0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.880
<v Speaker 2>today or not? And that just is an affordability question.

0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.879
<v Speaker 2>And so if you're someone who can afford it easily today,

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.480
<v Speaker 2>then I'm not sure what you're waiting around for. But

0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.720
<v Speaker 2>if you're someone who needs to kind of cut things,

0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.399
<v Speaker 2>pay other things off, et cetera, or it's going to

0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.280
<v Speaker 2>be really really tight for you when to move happens,

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.600
<v Speaker 2>you'd rather delay that pain, then it makes sense to delay,

0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:06.920
<v Speaker 2>So there's no wrong or right answer. You should do

0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.000
<v Speaker 2>this or it shouldn't do that. It's really kind of

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.439
<v Speaker 2>like just starting with can I afford this new payment

0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.720
<v Speaker 2>that's had it my way? Yes? Can I do it easily? Cool?

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:17.639
<v Speaker 2>I think you should move today. But if you're someone's

0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 2>like this really sucks, it's gonna be hard for I

0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:21.280
<v Speaker 2>need to do other things? Can you hold off as

0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:22.720
<v Speaker 2>long as you can? Okay?

0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.320
<v Speaker 1>What about tell me more about the rap plan that's

0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:26.359
<v Speaker 1>coming around in July?

0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Is that right? Yeah? So, well, we we think July.

0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.680
<v Speaker 2>We're not sure legally it's supposed to be by July,

0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 2>but who knows. But this rap plan is like IBr.

0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:42.000
<v Speaker 2>Like SAVE, it offers payments based off of your income

0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:46.600
<v Speaker 2>and your family size. It also promises loan forgiveness after

0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.160
<v Speaker 2>X number of years of pain on it Now. Like SAVE,

0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.280
<v Speaker 2>it also offers an interest waiver, so any unpaid interest

0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.439
<v Speaker 2>is waived on a monthly basis. But unlike any other

0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.520
<v Speaker 2>program that's ever existed, it does one other thing. It

0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.439
<v Speaker 2>makes a payment of up to fifty dollars towards your

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.240
<v Speaker 2>principal balance, So not only is your balance not growing,

0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:12.720
<v Speaker 2>but could also decrease over time. Just by application of

0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.159
<v Speaker 2>the program not as great, but there's a trade off.

0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.920
<v Speaker 2>The trade off is unlike any other program, it is

0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.960
<v Speaker 2>much longer in terms of loan forgiveness. So we're save

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.359
<v Speaker 2>offered long forgiveness as early as ten years, pay as

0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.720
<v Speaker 2>you earned, offered long forgiveness after twenty years, and IBr

0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.879
<v Speaker 2>after twenty to twenty five years. RAP offers it at

0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.280
<v Speaker 2>thirty years. So now you have to wait five extra

0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.680
<v Speaker 2>years for this thing, and that five extra years could

0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.840
<v Speaker 2>be really costly to you. It could also not just financially,

0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.000
<v Speaker 2>but also emotionally and kind of mentally just the load

0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.200
<v Speaker 2>of carrying it. So that is the trade off, but

0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:50.960
<v Speaker 2>it does have a lot of ups to it, upsides

0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:51.159
<v Speaker 2>to it.

0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's kind of insane to think about people having

0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.120
<v Speaker 1>their student loans as long as they have a mortgage.

0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 2>But why is that insane? Sure, I understand because like globally,

0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.560
<v Speaker 2>this isn't like out of control like in the UK.

0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 2>That's what they do. You pay on it for up

0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.120
<v Speaker 2>to thirty years and then it retires at a certain point.

0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.720
<v Speaker 2>The same thing with Australia, so we're not out of

0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.359
<v Speaker 2>step like and I can criticize this administration on a

0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:18.200
<v Speaker 2>lot of things, but this plan isn't out of step

0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:22.000
<v Speaker 2>with that. But I do agree that, wow, this education

0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:24.720
<v Speaker 2>that I got, I'm caring it for as long as

0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:29.159
<v Speaker 2>a mortgage. But also, you don't have to choose these programs, right,

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:31.000
<v Speaker 2>You could choose to do something else.

0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, And I think that's one of the things we

0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.879
<v Speaker 1>talk about regularly on the show is what degree are

0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.359
<v Speaker 1>you getting, how much are you paying to get the degree?

0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:42.280
<v Speaker 1>What is the value in return for going to school?

0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.080
<v Speaker 1>And clearly the a lot of American people have lost

0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.880
<v Speaker 1>faith in the value of a college education. They don't

0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:49.960
<v Speaker 1>see it as valuable as it used to be. And

0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I think a large part of that isn't because the

0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 1>education has degraded so much. That might be a little

0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:57.399
<v Speaker 1>bit of it. I think it's because the costs have

0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 1>risen so much, and so that degree that I could

0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:04.040
<v Speaker 1>have gotten for thirty grand, well that seems reasonable. If

0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:06.960
<v Speaker 1>that same degree costs one hundred and twenty, then it

0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:09.280
<v Speaker 1>feels far less enticing. And you have to really run

0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:11.720
<v Speaker 1>the numbers as a high school student and parent of

0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.119
<v Speaker 1>a high school student before you decide to lack yourself

0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:16.919
<v Speaker 1>to student loans of that magnitude.

0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I really wish people actually did that more, because

0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:24.959
<v Speaker 2>I talk with a lot of bars and they are

0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:29.600
<v Speaker 2>aware of the financial cost of things, but the emotions

0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:33.320
<v Speaker 2>went out, especially if they have like an older child

0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:36.239
<v Speaker 2>that they already paid and made a mistake with, they

0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:38.880
<v Speaker 2>feel like now somehow they're depriving the second and third

0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:41.600
<v Speaker 2>kid of the similar opportunity. So they're making an emotion

0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:44.280
<v Speaker 2>decision no matter what the math says. And then there

0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:48.200
<v Speaker 2>also there's other times when the thing they're solving for

0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:51.680
<v Speaker 2>is not what makes the most financial sense. It's the

0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:55.240
<v Speaker 2>thing that makes me feel good about myself. Well, my

0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:57.200
<v Speaker 2>kid got into this school, so I'm gonna find every

0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 2>way I can to pay for it, even though it's

0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:02.960
<v Speaker 2>going to wrecking financial or make things really difficult for me.

0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:05.160
<v Speaker 2>And so that's always the hard part is I find

0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:10.200
<v Speaker 2>that people aren't really making dollars and cents decisions, They're

0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:14.439
<v Speaker 2>really making emotional decisions that are guiding the way there.

0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:16.200
<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent, I think you're right. I think there's

0:24:16.200 --> 0:24:19.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of that and uh, and yet you pay

0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:21.440
<v Speaker 1>the price for it, if that's if that's if you

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:22.600
<v Speaker 1>let the motions be there, you.

0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:24.919
<v Speaker 2>Pay the price. Tax Payers pray the price at August

0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:27.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of who price is paid to cost for? Do you?

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.080
<v Speaker 1>So when somebody listeners are out there thinking about which

0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.000
<v Speaker 1>repayment plan makes the most sense for them, is the

0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.360
<v Speaker 1>lowest payment typically the best thing to prioritize, or who

0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:40.439
<v Speaker 1>out there should be focused on paying off their loans faster?

0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So the rough kind of back of the envelope

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:47.000
<v Speaker 2>math I do is if you're you're someone who has

0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:49.640
<v Speaker 2>a reasonable shot of paying off your loans if your

0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.480
<v Speaker 2>income to st loan debt ratio is like one point

0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:55.399
<v Speaker 2>twenty five to one. So for example, if you all

0:24:55.400 --> 0:24:58.639
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars in still loans

0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:02.320
<v Speaker 2>and you ma one hundred thousand dollars student loans, I'm

0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:05.240
<v Speaker 2>sorry an income, you have a reasonable shot at paying

0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:07.880
<v Speaker 2>back the debt. And if you're one to one, that's

0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:10.480
<v Speaker 2>a greater shot. And if you're like, you know, zero

0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:13.000
<v Speaker 2>point five to one, even greater shot. You're not really

0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:15.439
<v Speaker 2>on a forgiveness path. But anytime you start creeping up

0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:18.800
<v Speaker 2>past at one point twenty five to one, then forgiveness

0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:22.240
<v Speaker 2>becomes more the laying you have to operate on just

0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:25.720
<v Speaker 2>by way of math, unless you have other people subsidizing

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.040
<v Speaker 2>your cost of living for an extended period of time,

0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:30.000
<v Speaker 2>because there's just no other way to make it work.

0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:32.280
<v Speaker 2>The amortization schedule is going to eat you alive.

0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:37.440
<v Speaker 1>How so I read about the new student loan lifetime

0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:40.639
<v Speaker 1>borrowing cap. How impactful is that going to be for

0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:45.520
<v Speaker 1>people moving forward? Because before and in some ways like

0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:47.920
<v Speaker 1>it was pretty bad because you could borrow as much

0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:51.280
<v Speaker 1>as you wanted and that created a problem too. It

0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 1>seems like, so is this going to be helpful in

0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:56.240
<v Speaker 1>preventing people from borrowing more than they would otherwise be

0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:56.880
<v Speaker 1>able to pay back?

0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:00.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know if it's going to prevent come

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:02.399
<v Speaker 2>from borrowing more than it otherwise would be able to

0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:07.040
<v Speaker 2>pay back, but it's going to mitigate how much taxpayers

0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:10.760
<v Speaker 2>are kind of carrying this burden of individual borrows. And like,

0:26:11.359 --> 0:26:13.639
<v Speaker 2>this was a time when it was uncapped limit on

0:26:13.760 --> 0:26:15.840
<v Speaker 2>borrowing and now there's a cap, and so it just

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:19.280
<v Speaker 2>mitigates how much you can borrow, but it doesn't guarantee

0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:24.359
<v Speaker 2>a return on investment for that person. And so I

0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:27.840
<v Speaker 2>think there's going to be a very messy middle of

0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:29.840
<v Speaker 2>borrows who were caught in between because there was no

0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:34.000
<v Speaker 2>real off ramp for people that are have already started

0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:37.119
<v Speaker 2>a process of borrowing, there is some. But if you

0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:40.320
<v Speaker 2>are someone who has, for example, parent plus loans today

0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:45.240
<v Speaker 2>for a kid in year one, your repayment options go away.

0:26:45.520 --> 0:26:48.720
<v Speaker 2>If you borrow alone after June thirtieth this year, you

0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:51.920
<v Speaker 2>can only there's no longer income based options. It's you

0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:54.160
<v Speaker 2>have to pay it back. Well, how does that work

0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:56.879
<v Speaker 2>out for someone who was already planning on income based

0:26:57.440 --> 0:26:59.760
<v Speaker 2>and that was their game plan for it. There's no

0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:04.480
<v Speaker 2>longer option, So does it will there's work long term?

0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:07.879
<v Speaker 2>Likely yes, until some other problem presents itself and then

0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:10.440
<v Speaker 2>it no longer works and we need to adjust. Will

0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:12.640
<v Speaker 2>there be people that are absolutely crushed along the way

0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:16.680
<v Speaker 2>one thousand, because that's just the nature of changes. Will

0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:20.280
<v Speaker 2>this be better for us overall? I hope because right

0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:22.359
<v Speaker 2>now we have to admit it's kind of ridiculous that

0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:25.159
<v Speaker 2>you will spend one hundred thousand dollars a year on

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:29.280
<v Speaker 2>an undergraduate education. That makes no sense. Yeah, there's no

0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:33.000
<v Speaker 2>degree that's going to pay that back over four years.

0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:34.880
<v Speaker 2>There's no job where that works out.

0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Do you think there's going to be more potential need

0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:41.159
<v Speaker 1>for private student loans? Like, for a minute, there it

0:27:41.200 --> 0:27:43.639
<v Speaker 1>seemed like private student loans where nobody needed them, Like

0:27:43.680 --> 0:27:46.320
<v Speaker 1>the rates were incredibly low at the federal.

0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:49.440
<v Speaker 2>Private student loan lobbyists got their money over the last

0:27:50.000 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 2>couple of years.

0:27:51.080 --> 0:27:52.600
<v Speaker 1>What do parents need to know about private study?

0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, private school loans, they're going to have a resurgence

0:27:55.960 --> 0:28:01.320
<v Speaker 2>just because by nature of barrows, the visions aren't going

0:28:01.480 --> 0:28:05.120
<v Speaker 2>to change in terms of the schools that they want

0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:08.359
<v Speaker 2>to go, but they're going to leverage themselves even further

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:11.320
<v Speaker 2>by taking out these private stodol loans. And there's gonna

0:28:11.320 --> 0:28:13.719
<v Speaker 2>be a rush over years one and two by these

0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.240
<v Speaker 2>lenders to snatch up all the prime borrows they can.

0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:20.320
<v Speaker 2>And then in years three, four or five, we're gonna

0:28:20.359 --> 0:28:22.119
<v Speaker 2>move on to subprimes and the rates are gonna be

0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:26.000
<v Speaker 2>upward to fifteen, sixteen, seventeen percent, and then we're gonna

0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:28.480
<v Speaker 2>have a cliff in year six, seven eight, where like

0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:30.600
<v Speaker 2>there's nothing left in people aren't able to afford it,

0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:32.000
<v Speaker 2>and they thought they were gonna be able to pay

0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:34.800
<v Speaker 2>it back and they weren't. And the economy's gonna change

0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:38.000
<v Speaker 2>on us. But for right now twenty twenty six, twenty seven,

0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:40.360
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty eight, Yeah, I think private lending is going

0:28:40.440 --> 0:28:41.280
<v Speaker 2>to be awesome.

0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't you say awesome? What do you mean?

0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:46.600
<v Speaker 2>That means there's gonna be a lot of transactions being

0:28:46.720 --> 0:28:50.640
<v Speaker 2>made to people borrowing private student loans, because that's just

0:28:50.720 --> 0:28:52.520
<v Speaker 2>the nature of But I don't think it's the I

0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:55.040
<v Speaker 2>don't know if it's necessarily the right decision for people,

0:28:55.160 --> 0:28:59.240
<v Speaker 2>because by awesome for the lender, maybe not awesome for

0:28:59.320 --> 0:29:01.640
<v Speaker 2>the borrow but they're getting what they want and what

0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:04.800
<v Speaker 2>they contracted for, which is this money to pay for school,

0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:07.480
<v Speaker 2>and then they're going to have this opportunity to kick

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:09.800
<v Speaker 2>the can down the road while their kid is in school,

0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:12.480
<v Speaker 2>and then when they exit, the problem is going to

0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:14.600
<v Speaker 2>hit and they're not going to know what to do.

0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:17.920
<v Speaker 2>And we saw this during COVID, where people had private

0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:22.240
<v Speaker 2>student loans and they graduated, job market was trashed. Kid

0:29:22.360 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 2>owns two hundred thousand dollars. Parents co signed on it,

0:29:24.920 --> 0:29:28.240
<v Speaker 2>grandparents co signed on it, and there's no opportunity to

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:29.920
<v Speaker 2>ever pay us loans off. And now we have to

0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:33.920
<v Speaker 2>have difficult conversations about settlement and bankruptcy moving forward. But

0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:35.360
<v Speaker 2>the lenders made out well.

0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 1>And that's because right there are no regulations in place

0:29:40.800 --> 0:29:43.840
<v Speaker 1>on private student loans the way there are on federal

0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:44.520
<v Speaker 1>or very few.

0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:49.280
<v Speaker 1>So there is no income based repayment with private student loans, right.

0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:51.840
<v Speaker 2>Nor why would there be. They don't have the same

0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:55.640
<v Speaker 2>societal interest in having an educated population population the same

0:29:55.680 --> 0:29:58.560
<v Speaker 2>way as the government does, so why would they subsidize it.

0:29:58.720 --> 0:30:01.960
<v Speaker 2>You're borrowing something that we recognize you can't afford to

0:30:02.000 --> 0:30:04.040
<v Speaker 2>pay back, or you're not a good bet to pay back.

0:30:04.280 --> 0:30:06.400
<v Speaker 2>That's why your co signer is there to backstop it.

0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:08.760
<v Speaker 2>But that's not the nature of how things. People have

0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:12.000
<v Speaker 2>these conversations. They say, I'm gonna take out these loans

0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:13.840
<v Speaker 2>for you as a kid, but you're gonna pay it back,

0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:15.120
<v Speaker 2>and the kid it's like, yeah, I'm gonna pay it

0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:17.840
<v Speaker 2>back and into a job market where oh my god,

0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:19.960
<v Speaker 2>this is trash. But it's been this way for years,

0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:22.240
<v Speaker 2>where like, I don't know about you, but it took

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:26.960
<v Speaker 2>me six to eight years to get my kind of

0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:30.000
<v Speaker 2>like adult bridges on where I actually could feel like

0:30:30.240 --> 0:30:32.520
<v Speaker 2>I can handle in. My income kind of stabilized out

0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:35.640
<v Speaker 2>and I was able to start like really planning for it.

0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:37.880
<v Speaker 2>But that didn't happen in year one. I know very

0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:40.160
<v Speaker 2>few people that's the case for so the parent ends

0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:41.960
<v Speaker 2>up on a hook anyways, but they don't think about

0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:44.440
<v Speaker 2>it that way, and so they just end up over

0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:46.520
<v Speaker 2>committing to a thing and it becomes a problem down

0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:46.880
<v Speaker 2>the road.

0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:52.680
<v Speaker 1>So would you say private student loans are the worst

0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:56.320
<v Speaker 1>kinds of borrowing the individuals can do? Should those be

0:30:56.400 --> 0:30:58.040
<v Speaker 1>off the table? Does that mean if you have to

0:30:58.080 --> 0:30:59.680
<v Speaker 1>resort to private student loans you should be looking for

0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:02.239
<v Speaker 1>a cheap option for school. You should be finding other

0:31:02.280 --> 0:31:03.640
<v Speaker 1>ways to help you pay for it. You should be

0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:04.600
<v Speaker 1>getting a part time job.

0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Is it just?

0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Is it that cut and dry?

0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:09.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so. And this is where I made

0:31:09.560 --> 0:31:13.080
<v Speaker 2>a terrible interview because I can just say it do

0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:17.200
<v Speaker 2>this or that? Because what problem are you solving for? Right? So,

0:31:17.520 --> 0:31:19.720
<v Speaker 2>once you run out of federal student loans, you need

0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:21.440
<v Speaker 2>to be able to pay for it. What are your options?

0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:23.760
<v Speaker 2>You may have equity that you could borrow against your home.

0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:26.640
<v Speaker 2>Do you do that? Do you borrow from family or friends?

0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Do you take against your retirement? Or do you take

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:31.080
<v Speaker 2>out a private stoodl loan that has an interest rate

0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:33.600
<v Speaker 2>that you may not be able to pay back, But

0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:36.080
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't put your It may not put your house

0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:37.680
<v Speaker 2>in jeopardy the same way. It may not do this

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:41.280
<v Speaker 2>or that or retirement. So could you do that? Like? Yeah,

0:31:41.440 --> 0:31:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I think they serve a purpose as long as you

0:31:43.280 --> 0:31:46.120
<v Speaker 2>understand what are the pros and cons of them. Then

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:47.760
<v Speaker 2>if the problem you're trying to solve is I need

0:31:47.840 --> 0:31:49.920
<v Speaker 2>to get my child into this school, and I will

0:31:49.960 --> 0:31:52.760
<v Speaker 2>do that by any means necessary. Who am I to

0:31:52.840 --> 0:31:54.760
<v Speaker 2>stand in your way and just say don't do that.

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:56.880
<v Speaker 2>That's a terrible idea. Yeah, we could all agree it's

0:31:56.880 --> 0:32:00.360
<v Speaker 2>a terrible idea. We're gonna do it anyways, because solving

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:01.400
<v Speaker 2>a different problem. Yeah.

0:32:02.280 --> 0:32:04.960
<v Speaker 1>I got more questions to get to with Stanley, including

0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:10.200
<v Speaker 1>what about getting your advice student loan advice from the internet?

0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:14.160
<v Speaker 1>How does he feel about that? And also what's going

0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:16.520
<v Speaker 1>on with the education department that's supposed to be defunct.

0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:26.640
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk about that and more. Right after this, I'm

0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:29.120
<v Speaker 1>talking with Stanley Tap. We're talking about the student loan

0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:32.800
<v Speaker 1>chaos and trying to make some sense of of the changes.

0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:37.240
<v Speaker 1>And Stanley, appreciate your level heads as student loan policy

0:32:37.280 --> 0:32:41.400
<v Speaker 1>has shifted. What are the most common misunderstandings that borrowers

0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:43.960
<v Speaker 1>are having right now? And maybe what are your clients

0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:44.880
<v Speaker 1>most worried about.

0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:49.840
<v Speaker 2>I think the common misunderstanding is just like how I

0:32:49.960 --> 0:32:54.680
<v Speaker 2>have people who want an affordable payment, but they also

0:32:55.120 --> 0:32:58.840
<v Speaker 2>are worried about the interests accruing, and then they also

0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 2>want to work towards loan forgiveness, but then they don't

0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:04.240
<v Speaker 2>trust the loan forgiveness is going to happen, and so

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 2>they play this like messy middle playground of Okay, I

0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:10.200
<v Speaker 2>mean take the income base for payment option pay less,

0:33:10.440 --> 0:33:13.280
<v Speaker 2>and then when I get a large chunk of cash cash,

0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:15.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna just make a contribution towards one of the

0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:17.880
<v Speaker 2>loans to try to pay it off. And that seems

0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:20.160
<v Speaker 2>good on paper, but it actually doesn't. That doesn't how

0:33:20.480 --> 0:33:24.240
<v Speaker 2>not really how life works out, because you can't really

0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:26.880
<v Speaker 2>ride two horses at one time the way people would

0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:29.160
<v Speaker 2>try to do. There. If you need the lower payment,

0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:32.000
<v Speaker 2>then you're not really aromatizing the debt and the interest

0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:34.600
<v Speaker 2>is going to grow. But the game you're playing is

0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:36.960
<v Speaker 2>a forgiveness game at that point. The strategy you're on

0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:40.240
<v Speaker 2>is working toward long forgiveness after twenty to twenty five years,

0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 2>So it really doesn't make any sense for you to

0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:44.880
<v Speaker 2>try to pay extra on the interest, but you're psychologically

0:33:44.960 --> 0:33:46.600
<v Speaker 2>worried about it, and so you want to do something

0:33:46.640 --> 0:33:49.240
<v Speaker 2>about that because it freaks you out. But again, stud

0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:51.240
<v Speaker 2>loans are operating by a totally different set of rules

0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:53.440
<v Speaker 2>unlike your other debt. No other debt comes with loan

0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:56.320
<v Speaker 2>forgiveness the same way, So you have to lock into

0:33:56.400 --> 0:33:59.120
<v Speaker 2>that strategy. Now, if you're someone who doesn't really trust

0:33:59.200 --> 0:34:00.680
<v Speaker 2>it and you don't think it's going to be there,

0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:04.320
<v Speaker 2>then maybe you should instead of making periodic lump sum payments,

0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:06.400
<v Speaker 2>perhaps you take that lump sum of cash that you

0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:08.760
<v Speaker 2>have available and put in the high yield savings account

0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:11.959
<v Speaker 2>and until keep stocking that away, socking away, socking away,

0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:13.640
<v Speaker 2>and then when you can afford to pay off the

0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:16.080
<v Speaker 2>whole thing, now you make a decision, do I keep

0:34:16.120 --> 0:34:17.880
<v Speaker 2>working towards loan forgiveness or do I take out this

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:19.719
<v Speaker 2>money I saved and just pay it off and be done.

0:34:20.280 --> 0:34:22.439
<v Speaker 2>But trying to ride two horses at the same time

0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:24.400
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really work out. And that's like one of the

0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:27.760
<v Speaker 2>biggest misconceptions I see all the time, that it actually

0:34:27.840 --> 0:34:28.600
<v Speaker 2>hurts borrowers.

0:34:29.560 --> 0:34:32.960
<v Speaker 1>What so for people who truly are worried about loan forgiveness,

0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:34.600
<v Speaker 1>options going away. What would you say to that.

0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Person, I say, I understand your concern, but we haven't

0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:40.839
<v Speaker 2>seen that yet in thirty years. And this has been

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:45.239
<v Speaker 2>the most aggressive administration in overhauling STOO loan programs moving forward,

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:48.799
<v Speaker 2>and they didn't get rid of any forgiveness programs. They

0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:52.080
<v Speaker 2>cut SAVE, but they're still a path forward to get

0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:56.879
<v Speaker 2>income driven repayment forgiveness. And be technical here, Income driven

0:34:56.960 --> 0:35:00.720
<v Speaker 2>repayment ID ideas and DOG describes a CA gegory repayment

0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:03.319
<v Speaker 2>plans based on your income. Inside of that category, they're

0:35:03.400 --> 0:35:10.080
<v Speaker 2>saved IBr ICR and then paigeorn your credit under save

0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:13.040
<v Speaker 2>your credit under page EARN is fully transferable to any

0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:16.680
<v Speaker 2>other plan in that category. So the government under this

0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:20.879
<v Speaker 2>administration has left forward that type of forgiveness. I don't

0:35:20.960 --> 0:35:26.759
<v Speaker 2>see that going away for existing borrowers moving forward, but

0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 2>I can see the government stop offering it in the

0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:31.440
<v Speaker 2>future for new bars. But if you're someone with a loan,

0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:33.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't see that going away. I understand people with

0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:36.520
<v Speaker 2>concerns about public service loan forgiveness and kind of changes

0:35:36.920 --> 0:35:38.960
<v Speaker 2>that we're being talked about there that may be coming

0:35:39.000 --> 0:35:41.840
<v Speaker 2>down the pipeline in the future, but PSLF still exists.

0:35:41.840 --> 0:35:44.319
<v Speaker 2>People are still getting forgiven today, So I don't think

0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:46.160
<v Speaker 2>you need to worry about that today. But if you

0:35:46.239 --> 0:35:49.360
<v Speaker 2>are worried, set that money aside, hold on to it,

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:51.320
<v Speaker 2>and when you have to make that decision the future,

0:35:51.360 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 2>then make it. Then I don't see that there's any

0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:55.000
<v Speaker 2>need to get ahead of it today.

0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:58.000
<v Speaker 1>What sort of bad information are you seeing out there

0:35:58.040 --> 0:36:03.440
<v Speaker 1>in the student loan pay pretty much everything on I

0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 1>was gonna say, TikTok and Instagram reels have to be

0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:07.040
<v Speaker 1>big culprits.

0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:10.360
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I think the biggest thing really is related

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:15.160
<v Speaker 2>towards loopholes for forgiveness. There aren't any loopholes for forgiveness.

0:36:16.040 --> 0:36:19.960
<v Speaker 2>There are literally like four main paths towards relief. There's

0:36:20.320 --> 0:36:22.359
<v Speaker 2>public service loan forgiveness because you work for the governor

0:36:22.440 --> 0:36:25.320
<v Speaker 2>or nonprofit. There is twenty to twenty five years forgiveness

0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:26.880
<v Speaker 2>because you pay based on your income on on one

0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:30.040
<v Speaker 2>of those plans. There's totally permanent disability because you become

0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:33.000
<v Speaker 2>totally're permanently disabled according to your doctor the VA of

0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:35.759
<v Speaker 2>Social Security. And then there's borrow defense to repayment for

0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:38.800
<v Speaker 2>people who went to these kind of schools and advertise

0:36:38.880 --> 0:36:41.360
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of the day on Jerry Springer and

0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:46.319
<v Speaker 2>things like that, and that's the full kind of like nature.

0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:48.319
<v Speaker 2>There's these small other programs, but for the most part,

0:36:48.360 --> 0:36:53.040
<v Speaker 2>there are no loopholes here. And so I think the

0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:55.520
<v Speaker 2>most important thing to remember is that there's really not

0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:58.320
<v Speaker 2>an easy way out of this. We have to figure

0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:01.200
<v Speaker 2>out am I on a pay it off strategy? Or

0:37:01.239 --> 0:37:04.399
<v Speaker 2>am I on a forgiveness strategy? And once you lock

0:37:04.480 --> 0:37:07.960
<v Speaker 2>that in, the question it becomes when do my facts

0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:11.440
<v Speaker 2>change enough where I move from say forgiveness to all

0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:13.200
<v Speaker 2>pay it off or pay it off to a forgiveness.

0:37:13.840 --> 0:37:15.839
<v Speaker 2>And because it's not a decision that you make one time,

0:37:15.920 --> 0:37:17.920
<v Speaker 2>it's a decision I think you analyze at least on

0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:21.120
<v Speaker 2>an annual basis where you're saying, am I still on

0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:23.520
<v Speaker 2>the right path forgiveness or pay it off?

0:37:24.640 --> 0:37:27.560
<v Speaker 1>What's the current status of the Education Department in the

0:37:27.680 --> 0:37:32.640
<v Speaker 1>aftermath of the twenty twenty five executive order, Like, it's

0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:34.560
<v Speaker 1>not supposed to be around much longer.

0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Right, I don't, So the current status is they still exist,

0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:40.640
<v Speaker 2>they're still processing things, and there's talk about offloading the

0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:44.400
<v Speaker 2>loans to different departments, maybe Department of Treasury, maybe SBA,

0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:46.640
<v Speaker 2>but none of that has happened as if yet, and

0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:48.800
<v Speaker 2>even if it does happen, it doesn't change, kind of

0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:51.560
<v Speaker 2>like your obligations on the Daniel or payment plans moving forward,

0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:55.120
<v Speaker 2>that will still be there. But right now the Department

0:37:55.120 --> 0:37:58.799
<v Speaker 2>of Education exists. It is crippled, undoubtedly if this word

0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:01.439
<v Speaker 2>table with four eggs, it will be on its last

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:05.880
<v Speaker 2>leg right now, and yet it's still trudging along and

0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:10.560
<v Speaker 2>working so well. May there be some changes before this

0:38:10.680 --> 0:38:15.760
<v Speaker 2>administration leaves office? Possibly? Do I think that's likely given

0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:20.960
<v Speaker 2>everything else that's going on. No, but could Linda McMahon

0:38:21.120 --> 0:38:25.000
<v Speaker 2>as acting Secretary find a way to really close down

0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:29.879
<v Speaker 2>this Department of Education for good? Maybe? But I don't

0:38:29.920 --> 0:38:32.000
<v Speaker 2>know how that changes anything to do with your repayment

0:38:32.000 --> 0:38:35.880
<v Speaker 2>and forgiveness options except for possibly more likely delivering you

0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:40.560
<v Speaker 2>an even less effective customer service solutions moving forward.

0:38:41.120 --> 0:38:45.759
<v Speaker 1>All right, last question, what parting words of wisdom do

0:38:45.880 --> 0:38:48.960
<v Speaker 1>you have for people who feel like their student loans

0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:52.000
<v Speaker 1>are burden some and they want I don't know, it

0:38:52.040 --> 0:38:54.120
<v Speaker 1>doesn't even have to be specific advice like get on

0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:57.640
<v Speaker 1>this plan right and obviously every situation is unique, But

0:38:57.880 --> 0:38:59.279
<v Speaker 1>what would you say to those folks who feel like

0:38:59.280 --> 0:39:01.799
<v Speaker 1>they're struggling in nervous about repaying their loans.

0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Is this a podcast where I get to cuss?

0:39:05.120 --> 0:39:08.080
<v Speaker 1>No, we try to reframe, Okay, So the.

0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:10.759
<v Speaker 2>Way I would say it would be more direct than

0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:13.319
<v Speaker 2>how I'm gonna say it here, which is like, live

0:39:13.400 --> 0:39:19.200
<v Speaker 2>your best freaking life possible despite the student loans. Don't

0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:22.400
<v Speaker 2>pass up love, don't pass up jobs, don't pass up

0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:25.600
<v Speaker 2>other things because you're worried about the student loan debt.

0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:29.360
<v Speaker 2>We will find a way to tackle the student loans

0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:32.239
<v Speaker 2>and to make them fit around your life, but it

0:39:32.360 --> 0:39:34.400
<v Speaker 2>does come at cost. We may not get rid of

0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:38.239
<v Speaker 2>them as aggressively as you would like, and yet you

0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:40.440
<v Speaker 2>will have that love that you were holding out for.

0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:44.160
<v Speaker 2>I see far too many people that stop living life

0:39:44.719 --> 0:39:47.960
<v Speaker 2>because the thought of this debt hanging around forever freaks

0:39:47.960 --> 0:39:49.920
<v Speaker 2>them out. But it's not even just the thought. It's

0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:54.320
<v Speaker 2>the thought that is uncoupled from actual kind of consequences

0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:57.920
<v Speaker 2>of understanding what are the real consequences here, and then

0:39:58.000 --> 0:40:01.880
<v Speaker 2>what are my real options available. I'm not promising anyone

0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 2>that she'll have a perfect solution that works. It doesn't exist. Yeah,

0:40:05.200 --> 0:40:07.279
<v Speaker 2>but can we mitigate the damage that allows you to

0:40:07.400 --> 0:40:10.799
<v Speaker 2>kind of balance everything. Absolutely so I always want people

0:40:10.880 --> 0:40:14.680
<v Speaker 2>to live their best freaking life possible despite their student loans.

0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:15.640
<v Speaker 2>And we'll find a way.

0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:18.239
<v Speaker 1>Forward, dude. Great way to end it, Stanley Tate, thank

0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:19.759
<v Speaker 1>you so much for joining me. Where can how the

0:40:19.800 --> 0:40:22.959
<v Speaker 1>money listeners find out more about you and your content.

0:40:23.640 --> 0:40:25.040
<v Speaker 2>You use this place of though is just check us

0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:27.000
<v Speaker 2>out at t DSQ dot com or if you pop

0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:29.520
<v Speaker 2>in Stanley Tate Lawyer, it is gonna pop right up.

0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:31.319
<v Speaker 1>Awesome. We'll link to you in the show notes too.

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:36.280
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Stanley, Thank you. Oh man, what a great combo

0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:40.719
<v Speaker 1>with Stanley Tate. And I just appreciate too. In an

0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:46.120
<v Speaker 1>area of incredible headlines and a lot of change, there's

0:40:46.360 --> 0:40:48.160
<v Speaker 1>there's just a lot of freak out in the student

0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:50.719
<v Speaker 1>loan space, and I feel like Stanley is such a

0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:57.480
<v Speaker 1>solid presence with good advice without being over overly reactionary.

0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:00.560
<v Speaker 1>And I just think we're in a time where and

0:41:00.680 --> 0:41:03.719
<v Speaker 1>I get it, I totally get it where there are

0:41:04.520 --> 0:41:08.160
<v Speaker 1>abundant reactions and a lot of fear and I think

0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Stanley cuts through that really well by offering his thoughts

0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:16.239
<v Speaker 1>and advice and insight without just being like hair on

0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:19.800
<v Speaker 1>fire and so what he said too. I love this.

0:41:19.960 --> 0:41:22.000
<v Speaker 1>I think it makes total sense that a lot of people.

0:41:22.160 --> 0:41:23.880
<v Speaker 1>My big takeaway is that he said, pick a strategy

0:41:23.920 --> 0:41:26.000
<v Speaker 1>and stick to it. You can't ride two horses at

0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:31.359
<v Speaker 1>the same time, and it's understandable why someone would say, well,

0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:34.560
<v Speaker 1>I just I don't know that I trust you, know,

0:41:34.719 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 1>forgiveness to stay around, and so I feel like I

0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:39.759
<v Speaker 1>have to do both of these strategies at the same

0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:42.200
<v Speaker 1>time in order to feel comfortable. And then even at

0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:45.120
<v Speaker 1>the end right what he was saying was like, live

0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:47.680
<v Speaker 1>your life, and it's really it's really hard. I think

0:41:47.680 --> 0:41:49.920
<v Speaker 1>it's really for a lot of folks. It's become easy.

0:41:50.000 --> 0:41:54.719
<v Speaker 1>It's become normal to let student loans influence a lot

0:41:54.800 --> 0:41:59.160
<v Speaker 1>of life decisions. And I just appreciate his way of thinking, saying, well,

0:41:59.640 --> 0:42:04.200
<v Speaker 1>they can't change every future decision you make, and they

0:42:04.239 --> 0:42:07.239
<v Speaker 1>might be with you for a while. Whether you are

0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:12.360
<v Speaker 1>on the income driven repayment plan and you're saying, listen,

0:42:12.440 --> 0:42:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna try to pay these loans off in quicker

0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:19.279
<v Speaker 1>than before, you know, trying to get some sort of forgiveness,

0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:23.600
<v Speaker 1>or whether you're on the long term forgiveness route, there

0:42:23.760 --> 0:42:27.680
<v Speaker 1>are there are ways I think to despite the impact

0:42:27.719 --> 0:42:30.320
<v Speaker 1>of student loans in your life, live your life, and

0:42:30.440 --> 0:42:34.040
<v Speaker 1>to not allow those to dictate most of the choices

0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:35.719
<v Speaker 1>you make are many of the choices you make, whether

0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:40.040
<v Speaker 1>it's about love, starting a family, all that kind of stuff.

0:42:40.160 --> 0:42:43.560
<v Speaker 1>So I thought, yeah, Stanley had a lot of good insight.

0:42:43.640 --> 0:42:47.040
<v Speaker 1>If you are interested to hear more from him, I

0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:49.680
<v Speaker 1>will put links to his YouTube channel, his newsletter, his

0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:52.200
<v Speaker 1>newsletters spot on every time it comes out, and just

0:42:52.640 --> 0:42:54.960
<v Speaker 1>if you are in the uh hey, I need to

0:42:54.960 --> 0:42:57.120
<v Speaker 1>help in hand in the student loans space. Stanley's definitely

0:42:57.160 --> 0:42:59.480
<v Speaker 1>a great place to turn. But that's going to do

0:42:59.480 --> 0:43:01.600
<v Speaker 1>it for this episodisode. I hope you enjoyed it. We'll

0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:03.880
<v Speaker 1>see you back here on Friday for a fresh Friday

0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:06.600
<v Speaker 1>Friday flight. Until next time, best Friend Out.