1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong and Joe Ketty arm Strong 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: and Getty and he Armstrong and Hetty. 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: Find out what happened when and you know what orders 5 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: were given. I think all the all the particulars. You 6 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: want to know what the facts are, and then you 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: want to compare that with the relevant and figure out 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: you know, procedurally, you know what's the you know the 9 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: correct lawful way to do things, and determine whether or 10 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 2: not that everything is followed. 11 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 3: Of course, we're talking about the second strike on the boat, 12 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 3: turns out second, third, and fourth maybe strikes on the 13 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 3: boat off the coast of Venezuela, and whether or not 14 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: Pete Hegzeth. 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: Ordit it or not, and exactly what was ordered, when, 16 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: by whom, and whether it was legal. It's worth noting 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: that the voice you heard was Senator John Thune, the 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: Republican leader of the Senate. 19 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 3: The very last is from the New York Times, citing 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 3: five US officials today that Hegzeth called for the original 21 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 3: strike but did not specify what should happen if survivors remained. 22 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 3: And then Admiral Frank Bradley, who you've now heard his 23 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 3: name a lot, ultimately signed off on the initial strike 24 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 3: and several follow up strikes that killed eleven people. 25 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: Okay, interesting to gain a little perspective, we've invited on 26 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: the terrific Mike Lyons, military analyst who is also I 27 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: was happy to see writing for Real Clear Defense, including 28 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: a great piece about the possible Ukraine deal, which we'll 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: touch on in a minute. But first, Mike, welcome, How 30 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: are you hey? 31 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 4: Good one, you guys, thanks for having me back. 32 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: Trust you and the family had a great Thanksgiving? Could 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: do talk to you? Yeah? I was good. 34 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 4: I didn't have my son home or my daughter home, 35 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 4: but hopefully well get him a Christmas time at this point, 36 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 4: so we're looking forward to. 37 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, onto that part of life. Yeah, so, Mike, let's 38 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about your impressions of the you know, 39 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: what is known thus far about the alleged targeting of survivors. 40 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: What do you think? 41 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, so I've voided this story for a 42 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 4: while because I just a lot of it as one 43 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 4: hundred percent politics. That video that was released, I guess 44 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 4: you know ten days ago, almost two weeks ago, by 45 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 4: the congressmen and senators over you know, not fine, not 46 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 4: not obeying legal authors. I thought that pierced this veil 47 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 4: between the military and the civilians like I've never seen 48 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 4: before and set this path on to where I think 49 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 4: we are today. And the fact that this mission is 50 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 4: being so scrutinized because I could give you multiple examples 51 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 4: of previous missions that and people have testified in front 52 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 4: of Congress about these kinds of double taps that we've 53 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 4: done in the past, but for now it's now reached 54 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 4: this hyperbolic boiling point over what's going on here. 55 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: Well, let's let's make sure we understand what you're saying there. 56 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 3: Are you saying the sort of thing that is being 57 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 3: alleged here happens regularly. 58 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 4: Well, no, first of all, nobody in the military is 59 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 4: committing war crimes, which is where this has gone to. 60 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 4: It's gone to, you know, we're murdering people that are 61 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 4: hanging off of you know, ship parts in the in 62 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 4: the Caribbean or the Pacific or whatever the mission was. 63 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it's not like Robinson, Caruso or 64 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 4: Rose hanging off the side of the Titanic here. I mean, 65 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 4: it's insane that we're still having this conversation. This is 66 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 4: a military target that the initial target was approved legally, 67 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 4: and the target is to be destroyed and destroyed means destroyed. 68 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 4: And so if the first target hits and there are 69 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 4: still survivors and there's still a target in the water, 70 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 4: well those survivors were still part of the original target 71 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 4: to begin with. So they are legal targets as well. 72 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 4: So so, but this is all about context. It's all 73 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 4: about what, you know, what what people want to view 74 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 4: and they want how they want to see this, And 75 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 4: from from my perspective, it's it's a shame. Now we've 76 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 4: seen the Secretary of Defense throw us over to SOCOM 77 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 4: commander and this addal now will testify in front of Congress. 78 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 4: But these missions go on all the time. They're approved legal, 79 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 4: and once they are approved legal and they start, it's 80 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 4: pretty hard to bring that health fire missile back. 81 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: So there's a pretty good history, including the Nuremberg Trials, 82 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: of prosecutions for targeting survivors of an attack on a 83 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 1: ship who no longer posed any threat. Are you saying 84 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: this doesn't apply here or that's wrong or what? 85 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know enough about it. I'd have to 86 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 4: see a lot more. But sure, we're not going to 87 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 4: target sole survivors waving their hands in the water, let's say, right, 88 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 4: especially with the health fire missile, and again I don't 89 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 4: know what visual is on them, and we're with seal 90 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 4: Teams six close to them. I mean, there's just so 91 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 4: much information that needs to come out that would figure 92 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: out whether or not. I mean, I saw this one 93 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 4: report that said maybe they thought that there was another 94 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 4: boat in the area and this boat could have came 95 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 4: and picked up some of the cargo of this ship. 96 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 4: I don't know. Again, I haven't seen the battle damage 97 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 4: assessment or anything, but all I know is that so 98 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 4: many different opinions are being layered into this contextually that 99 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 4: is now clouded it to the point of we don't 100 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 4: it's going to get this mission accomplished. Of stopping what 101 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 4: they're trying to do. I think it's a pure political 102 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 4: situation that Democrats don't want anything to do with what 103 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 4: Trump is doing in the Caribbean. I think he needs 104 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 4: to say what that strategy is. I still don't know 105 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 4: what that is as well, but this is not the 106 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 4: way to do it, to use the military, because basically, 107 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 4: if he's going to accuse hex at about war crime. 108 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 4: If you're going to accuse him of war crime, you're 109 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 4: acusing everybody to pull the trailer all the way down 110 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 4: to who fired that missile? 111 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: Okay, just for the record, obviously, you know, we're not 112 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: engaging in hyperbole or trying to cloud new waters. In fact, 113 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: we're trying to do just the opposite and help people 114 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: understand what are the actual issues going on here. 115 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, so yeah, no, I don't think you are. This 116 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 4: is again I avoided this just for this reason. I 117 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 4: think it's more political. I think it's a shame that 118 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 4: we're at this place that now the military is going 119 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 4: to be questioned about this going forward, We're going to 120 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 4: drag this admiral and into this political hearing, and this 121 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 4: is all about getting secretary heccess, frankly from my perspective 122 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 4: and interesting. So it just just seems too close to 123 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 4: the video that was released ten days ago to have 124 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 4: this situation come up right now. 125 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, we wondered about that yesterday. The timing seems pretty 126 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 3: suspicious exactly. 127 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 4: And then the initial Washington Post article now has proven wrong. 128 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 4: When the New York Times is throwing the Washington Post 129 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 4: off under the bus over there, then you know something 130 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 4: is up, so. 131 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 3: Is your take, And I just want to make sure 132 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 3: completely understand what you're saying is that we are entering 133 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: into getting way too loyally on this sort of thing, 134 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 3: or much more lawyerly than we usually are in reality, 135 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 3: you know, in a war situation. 136 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 4: Well, my take is that I think they decided that 137 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 4: these are legal targets, and they are the military targets 138 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,559 Speaker 4: as they've been declared narco terrorists and enemies of the state, 139 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 4: and each one is evaluated separately with regard to how 140 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 4: they're going to take it out and what they want 141 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 4: to do, and what the definition of destroyed means. And 142 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 4: I think that once the initial shot was fired then 143 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 4: and if that was determined legal, then any shot fired 144 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 4: after it is determined legal as well. Again, I got 145 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 4: to think there's not a video and audio of Haigs 146 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 4: that's standing up saying kill them all and all these 147 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 4: other things that are coming out of this. I mean, 148 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 4: it's just not the case that the people, you know, 149 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 4: I had a chance to talk to some of the 150 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 4: former Jay Sock commanders the last few days, and they 151 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 4: wanted me to reiterate to everybody that the people that 152 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 4: are on these missions are professionals, and they're doing things 153 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 4: exactly by the book. And if they thought for one 154 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 4: second so that was an illegal target or they were 155 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 4: there were survivors, and the fact that they thought that 156 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 4: that the target wasn't destroyed, they wouldn't have fired again, 157 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 4: did Why did in a couple of weeks later we 158 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 4: turned two people back over to this to the host county. 159 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 4: What did that happen? Well, they must have thought that 160 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 4: situation was different from this. I'm sure that will be 161 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 4: explained in the Senate Armed Services Committee. But the professionals 162 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 4: in the military are looking at every single aspect and 163 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 4: there's just no way they were going to fire on 164 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 4: a target that wasn't legal. 165 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: All right, well said, we'll wait for more facts to 166 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: come out. Now to your piece about the still taking 167 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: shape Ukraine deal, I thought the way you framed it 168 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: was so interesting that it's not exactly a peace treaty. 169 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: It's more a Korean style armistice or freeze. Tell us 170 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: about that. 171 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a freeze, and you know, you know, it's 172 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 4: a classic trading land for some kind of freedom or 173 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 4: immediate relief from stopping the war. We all want the 174 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 4: war to stop, but there's no guarantees of what specifically 175 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 4: what that means without NATO being involved. For example, I 176 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 4: still don't believe Russia will accept anything, any peace agreement 177 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 4: or any agreement that they come to right now anyway. 178 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 4: And I'll kind of put this out preemptively because it's 179 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 4: going to forest United States to try to create more 180 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 4: leverage at some point. But if they did accept what 181 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 4: what's currently on the table right now, all it does 182 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 4: is going to set up Round two at some point. 183 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 4: I mean, it's appeasement to try to stop a world 184 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 4: We're you know that nineteen thirty eight. Let's say that 185 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 4: was kind of appeasement to try to keep a war 186 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 4: from happening. This is the flips it on it's head. 187 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 4: It's Korea nineteen fifty three in the same regard. That 188 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 4: will create a DMZ, and we'll create this line, but 189 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 4: it can always be restarted. And I just don't believe 190 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 4: this is good for the long term of Eastern Europe, 191 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 4: and I don't think it's in the long term interest 192 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 4: in the United States. 193 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: We were wondering yesterday, why would Putin quit? 194 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 3: If you're a Russia with Russia's goals, would you keep 195 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: prosecuting the war exactly. 196 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 4: Not for one second would I quit. So that's the thing. 197 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 4: And there's the battlefield math has not changed. There's nothing 198 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 4: differently on the battlefield. In fact, the Russians have caught 199 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 4: up with the Ukrainians when it comes to their drone technology. 200 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 4: It's incredible the fiber optic drones that are being used 201 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 4: right now, and they're tethered, and they're ubquous to the weather, 202 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 4: and and they're not impervious to electronic warfare. You know, 203 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 4: we need to be paying close attention. I know we 204 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 4: are at the military academy this because we've got a 205 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 4: leaf fraud this technology. We can't be satisfied with what's 206 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 4: good enough on the battlefield right now. We've got to 207 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 4: be looking over the horizon and figuring out what it's 208 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 4: going to take, what the drone technology looks like on 209 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 4: the next battlefield, because because right now it's very very 210 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 4: advanced right now, and the Russians have caught right up 211 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 4: with the Ukrainians on it. 212 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: Right and final point on the comparison with Korea, the 213 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: thing that bothers me is somebody who's been standing up 214 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: for Ukraine is that unlike the Korean deal where you 215 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: got your demilitarized zone, but then everybody's armed to the 216 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: teeth on both sides of it. Yeah, this is calling 217 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: for Ukraine to more or less disarmed, to weaken their 218 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: own military and become a just It wouldn't take ten 219 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: minutes for Putin to violate the agreement and beat the 220 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: hell out of the Ukraine, take even more land a 221 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: year or two hence, so. 222 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 4: Exactly they would have interior lines. They would take land 223 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 4: that they haven't conquered yet. You know, in Korea we 224 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 4: poured in forty five thousand troops. There's ten thousand artillery rounds, 225 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 4: you know, targeting each other right now, that's a tinderbox 226 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 4: on some level. And we've talked about that and before. 227 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 4: But this, this in particular, would be it would clearly 228 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 4: lead to a round two at some point unless NATO, 229 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 4: for example, provided an air defense umbrella over Ukraine that 230 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 4: guaranteed all missiles coming from Russia would be shot down, 231 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 4: perhaps a no fly zone, although a no fly zone 232 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 4: is technically an active war. But and what are the 233 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 4: troop where do the troops come from? So NATO has 234 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 4: to be in the game or the or NATO countries 235 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 4: have got to be in the game from a security 236 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 4: perspective or to execute your point, they would roll right 237 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 4: through Ukraine once this they were disarmed. 238 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: Military analyst Mike Lyons will post his piece forrom Real 239 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: Clear Defense at Armstrong and getty dot com. Mike, really 240 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: interesting perspective. Thanks so much for the time. 241 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, great guys, Thanks for having and thanks for having 242 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 4: this kind of conversation. I'm not sure where other people 243 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 4: are having it. And I think it's important to recognize 244 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 4: that our military is professional and not murdering people in 245 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 4: the water. I just think I just want to make 246 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 4: that that point clear. 247 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, we probably we'd be better off pandering, but we're 248 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: too stubborn to do it. So anyway, Thanks Mike. 249 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 4: Great to talk to you, great guys, great out here. 250 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 3: So do these two things go together, though, that our 251 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 3: military is professional and we're not in the business of 252 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 3: murdering people in the water, and things aren't quite as 253 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 3: delineated as you think they are in TV shows or 254 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 3: whatever around these issues. 255 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: Well, and to what extent is a drug cartel an 256 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: enemy force? And to what extent where are we at war? 257 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: Because that's there's an underlying set of questions before we 258 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: even get to the specifics. 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And then 271 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 3: the burgers are the best burgers I've ever had, absolutely fantastic, 272 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 3: the apple tart. 273 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: Let's just all kinds of stuff from Ama Steaks that 274 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: are great. You want an endorsement, I've ordered it for 275 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: my papa, who just turned eighty five. Year after year 276 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: after year love Omaha Steaks, Never for a second wonder 277 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: about their quality. It is so good. A lot of 278 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: different packages too. 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Use it at checkout Omaha Steaks dot com. 284 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: The code is Armstrong. 285 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 3: I want to talk about what's your pea doom a 286 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 3: little bit later if you don't know that term around AI. 287 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: But I don't want to rap name p doom Yo 288 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: yo yo. 289 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 3: I don't want to be the scariest radio show in America. 290 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 3: So we have some other stuff where you're coming up 291 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 3: next farm Strong. 292 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: Hard to believe, but Ireland will finally introduce warning labels 293 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: on alcohol, you know to one of its harmful side 294 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: effects such as katy disease, cancer or worse going home 295 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: with rosy O'Donnell, never forget or something Hey, get it 296 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: by Christmas. Shipping deadline is upon us. Order your new 297 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: Ang T shirt or hoodie now at the Ang Superstore 298 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: Armstrong Giddy dot com. Perhaps you're looking for something else, 299 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: how about the truly amusing kftc apron perfect for your 300 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: favorite griller. Please. I can't wait to get mine. Where's 301 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: mine Handsome or our new drink wear and the ruin 302 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: the entire country Newsome twenty twenty eight T shirts are 303 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: flying off the shelves. Wear them proudly. Halt progressive stupidity 304 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: in its tracks. Anyway, moving along, because we all want 305 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: a quick route to health other than eating a reasonably 306 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: balanced diet and regularly exercising. And I'm not claiming for 307 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: a minute I do those things. But anyway, everybody wants 308 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: to take supplements. Kitty, are you big on supplements? Have 309 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: you been into the turmeric or whatever? Pre pregnancy? 310 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 5: I was, but then I kept reading all this stuff 311 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 5: about how it's just they're not regulated and not good 312 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 5: for you, so I steer clear. 313 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: Came across this piece from our friends Jason Rantz and Seattle, 314 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: who's a terrific radio guy and a good guy. New 315 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: independent lab analysis may make every Amazon shopper I think 316 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: twice before buying another supplement from the world's largest online marketplace. 317 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,119 Speaker 1: A consumer health testing platform purchased forty four of Amazon's 318 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: most popular supplements and put them through ISO accredited labs. 319 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: The results were alarming. Boy fifty two out of the 320 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: forty four failed to meet their label claims for what 321 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: were in them, and even more stunning, of those twenty 322 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: two that failed to meet the claims, twenty of them 323 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: virtually all of them had zero to three percent of 324 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: the main ingredient an amount claimed. That means half the 325 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: supplements tested were effectively fakes, and many of them contained 326 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: none or almost none of what the label promised was 327 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: in them. So Amazon's marketplace has become a huge magnet 328 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: for low quality, foreign manufactured deceptive supplements selling. But did 329 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: they work? They cured the PLACEBA almost right away. 330 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 3: I had quite a conversation with my niece who's in 331 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 3: medical school right now for Thanksgiving about PLACEBIA. 332 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: Now I'm all for it. 333 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 3: If I think it works and it made me feel better, 334 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 3: one hundred percent, I'll pay for it. 335 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: So the folks who sponsored this, who I believe are 336 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: a domestic supplement maker, they discovered that every single overseas 337 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: registered supplement they tested failed testing, including six from mainland China, 338 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: delivered none of the claimed potency. Plus you get your 339 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: opaque seller identities on Amazon. I've fallen pray to that 340 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: once or twice, two third party sellers. Anyway, fuyerviewer go 341 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: with known domestic brands. 342 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 5: Yeah, and one thing that I've seen I can't remember 343 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 5: where I saw this report, but these especially the Chinese manufacturers, 344 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 5: will pay people to review the product, so then it'll 345 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 5: show the product is having a higher rating because you 346 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 5: know they've they've obviously planted all these these reviews and 347 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 5: then people purchase. 348 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 3: How about these giant, giant vitamin stores that they have 349 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 3: in strip malls or whatever, those are probably legit, right 350 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 3: if you go into one of. 351 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: Those, uh will I would again, I would check the label. 352 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: Maybe go with the better known supplement brands. Yeah, I mean, 353 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: maybe taking turmeric or whatever the hell is today's hot 354 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: hot mineral magnesium a good idea or bad idea, but 355 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: you might as well get what you're paying for. Yeah, 356 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: and then whiz it out because your body gets plenty 357 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: of it just from regular diets like most things. That's correct. Yes, yes, 358 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: wiz it out, sweeze it out. 359 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 3: How much time do we got, Michael? We got to 360 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 3: talk about that field goal from last night. Yeah, if 361 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 3: you haven't watched the video, why did they send me 362 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 3: out to kick a field goal? 363 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: That was a mistake. We got a lot of stuff 364 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: on the way. I hope you can stay here Armstrong 365 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: and Geeddy. 366 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 3: Forty seven yard trying now by young Way Conny stumbled 367 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 3: Killen gets swallowed up Patriots ball. 368 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever seen that. Yeah, look like 369 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: he just stubbed his foot right into the turf. Here 370 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: it is. 371 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 5: There was. 372 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: They're laughing. So here's what happened. 373 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 3: The field goal kicker who is like me, he runs 374 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 3: up to kick a field goal. 375 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: It's like two feet from the ball. He gets jams 376 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: and foot into the ground. Yeah. Yeah, he never contacted 377 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: the ball, come within a foot of contacting. They speaking 378 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: as a guy who kicked a thirty five yarder on 379 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: the air. I would like to point out that was 380 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: a I've never seen anything like that. No, it's just 381 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: going through a whole any level of football, not high 382 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: school football. No, no, no. 383 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: If you do that in junior high everyone would laugh 384 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 3: at you and they would wonder why did you ever 385 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 3: think you could kick a football? 386 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: Understand again, he planted his plant foot, he swung his foot, 387 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: he hit a foot foot and a half behind the ball, 388 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 1: never even scared the ball, I mean, and the holders like, 389 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: what the hell do I do? 390 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 2: Now? 391 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: He picks the ball up and gets the hell beat 392 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: out of him. 393 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 3: I was just going through a whole bunch of social 394 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 3: media stuff from various NFL players through the years who say, 395 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 3: I have watched eight million of games, I've never seen 396 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 3: anybody do that before. Yeah, it's hard to imagine the 397 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 3: equivalent of it. I mean, like, if you're shooting a 398 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 3: free throw and you turned around and faced the other 399 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 3: direction and tried to put it in the other basket, 400 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 3: or are you hitting yourself in the face with it, right, 401 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 3: It's amazing how there was a play like this in 402 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 3: the World Series where somebody dropped a pop fly. 403 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: Basically, how professionals who. 404 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 3: Are the best in the world at it can make 405 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 3: the you know, I am a sucky athlete, thirteen year 406 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 3: old mistake sometimes. 407 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: Well yeah, but to drop a fly ball is one thing. 408 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: To stand there and have it like go four feet 409 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: away from your mitan that would be the equivalent to this. 410 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure he'll be out trying to explain that guy 411 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: was just cut by another team and he caught on 412 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: with the sucky Sucky Giants. Oh boy boy, I'm like, 413 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: oh the barrel now, I'm just picturing what his teammates 414 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: must have said to him as he was walking back 415 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: to the bench. 416 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 3: Would there be nothing to say? You don't need to 417 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 3: say anything. There's nothing you could say. The guy knows 418 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 3: what he did. His foot hit not even closing the ball. 419 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 3: He probably about broke his ankle. 420 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you. There's one thing you could say, 421 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: hope you catch on with another team, buddy. Sorry, maybe 422 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: Carr's Gonza. That's what I'd have said to him. Car insurance. 423 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: You ever thought about that? People need car insurance? Be 424 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: that way to make a living. 425 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 3: Be that guy at Costco that says to people when 426 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 3: they walk by, hey do you have vinyl sighting? 427 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: Be that guy you know if he's got a smart agent. 428 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: He's trotting him out right now with some sort of 429 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: sometimes just swinging miss badly. And that's when you call 430 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: service master or something. I don't know, something escape anything. 431 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 5: Apparently the quarterback was on the sideline, Jackson Darty. 432 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: You could see him lipping in the camera. Oh my god, 433 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: I saw that. I saw that. It was just oh 434 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: my god. He turns and then he turns and says 435 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: what and then the mercifully his said has turned. Yes, Yes, 436 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: you got to lean into it. That's exactly it. 437 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 3: You gotta be on Kimmel tonight, and and you know, 438 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 3: do something ridiculous and become a household name for that, 439 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 3: and you'll make your living pitching various products the rest 440 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 3: of your life. You'll make more then you were ever 441 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,479 Speaker 3: gonna make as a second tier kicker. Right, you need 442 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 3: to become a household name for the worst kick in 443 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 3: NFL history. 444 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: Going turn and ads for one of those divorce lawyers. 445 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: I'm I'm young, ho ku did you did you swing 446 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: and miss on your first marriage? 447 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 3: They get a fair settlement, Jason lawyers bet in a 448 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 3: car wreck? 449 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: Right? Why this was a car wreck, wasn't it? And 450 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 1: they show the tape. Yes, if you've been in a 451 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: car wreck, call Joe good if they fight for you. 452 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 3: We posted that at armstrong in getdy dot com because 453 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 3: you got it. If you haven't seen the video of 454 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 3: the Giants kicker missing that field goal, you think we're exaggerating, 455 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 3: We're not. 456 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: We're we're not doing it justice of how bad that is. 457 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 1: Missing the field goal hardly is that's really inadequate to 458 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: describe what happened. The ball didn't get off the ground. 459 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: If I you know, the ball wasn't even juststled. No, 460 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: the ball didn't get off the ground. The ball was 461 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: not assaulted, the ball was not contacted. The ball has 462 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: nothing to do with this. It was not part of 463 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: the play. All right, thank god for that. Coming up. 464 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: Two things. Number one, it may be the greatest scam 465 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: ever perpetrated in terms of the dollar value, and it 466 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: was perpetrated against the people of Europe. I will explain. 467 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: And also this, this is so good. The question and 468 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: who is asking it? The question is if I am 469 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: really turned on by a woman's bare feet? Is showing 470 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: me pictures of a woman's bare feet pornography? And who's 471 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: asking it? The irs? I'll try to get past. 472 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 3: The because I think feet are disgusting and I just 473 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 3: do not under stand people who are turned. 474 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: On by feet. I'm foot neutraled or handy for walking certainly, 475 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: But so I'll just try to ignore that that you're 476 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: a freaking weirdo if you're turned on by feet, and 477 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: just accept that some people are. You know, I'm not 478 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: going to go too deep in the Getty playbook, but 479 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: a nice foot rob is, you know, it's a nice 480 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: it's a good thing, right al or anti that you 481 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: refuse to indulge their or what I mean, you don't 482 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: have to getting or giving giving. I'd rather not. I 483 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: think feet are gross. Wow wow wow, Katie high Seval. 484 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: You can sigh heavily enroll your eyes, or you could 485 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: step up to the mic, your idiot, jack. Feet are 486 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: just disgusting. They should always be covered. Do you look 487 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: at yours every day and go ew keep them away 488 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,479 Speaker 1: from people? But the coming up the irs wants to 489 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: know if feet turn you on? Is that porn? 490 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 3: I know somebody I know a woman who became aware 491 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 3: of the fact that one of her male co workers, 492 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 3: if she were if she was barefoot in like you know, uh, 493 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 3: attractive footwear at work, that that male coworker stared at 494 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 3: her feet all the time, oh boy. And it kind 495 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 3: of became people and the people. Other people became aware 496 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 3: that man, oh boy, he's really going to be checking 497 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 3: you out today, Like you know, if she showed up 498 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 3: in open toed sandals of some. 499 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: Sort, man, everybody with some sort of quasi lesbian look 500 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: from then on and go hiking boots and sick woolen 501 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: sucks every day. 502 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 3: Because apparently he was obvious about it, that other people 503 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 3: in the workplace were aware that, oh boy, Jim's going 504 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 3: to be staring at your feet today, you know that sort. 505 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: Of Oh that's uncomfortable. Yeah, that's that's terrible. But it's 506 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: well for us. 507 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 3: For somebody who's like in defeat, it's the equivalent of 508 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 3: wearing you know, a tube top or something, I guess 509 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 3: for somebody who's in the battle. 510 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, yes, please, it's not your fault, all right. 511 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: So I will explain that that confusing story coming up 512 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: after a brief break. But our friends at Prize Picks 513 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: want to remind you that Prize Picks is the easiest, 514 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: most fun way to get into fantasy sports. You see, 515 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: all you do is pick two players and you can 516 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: combine sports if you want. Your lineup can have a 517 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: basketball player and a football player, for instance, and you 518 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: just pick more or less on the stat projections for 519 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: at least two players. 520 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 3: For instance, did you go more or less field goal 521 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 3: kickers who would kick into the ground three feet from 522 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: the ball. I actually don't think they had as an option, 523 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 3: but if they had, you might have done. 524 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: Well. Yeah, the more or less could have been the 525 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 1: ball and move one inch. It didn't anyway. Prize Picks 526 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: is super cool. You can make your picks on fantasy 527 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: score free throws, made field goal attempted at even turnovers. 528 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: A couple of players really stack up their free throws. 529 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: That's interesting. Anyway, download the prize picks at today and 530 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: use the code Armstrong. You get fifty dollars in lineups 531 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: after you play your first five dollars lineup. As the 532 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: code armstrong, you get fifty dollars in lineups to play 533 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: around with for just playing a five dollar lineup. You 534 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: don't have to win. It's automatic prize picks. It's good 535 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: to be right. 536 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 3: So the whole Pete Heggzeth guys in the Boat second 537 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 3: Strike thing. We talked about it early in the show. 538 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 3: Then we had Mike lions On talking about it, and 539 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 3: we've gotten so many texts about it. We'll maybe get 540 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 3: some of those an hour three. Seems to be a 541 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 3: hot topic for y'all. 542 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, wow, Okay, Yeah, I'm surprised. I thought 543 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: we dealt with it just plenty, a lot of plenty 544 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: and a half. But people are crazy into it. 545 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 3: Fair amount of partisan breakdown, and I think that's true 546 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 3: in the media also, like Mike Lein said that, you know, 547 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 3: there's a lot of Democrats that would just love to 548 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 3: get a scalp with Pete hegseeth having to resign. That 549 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 3: would I've never understood this kind of partisan ship where 550 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 3: if you make somebody from the other party resign, like, Wow, 551 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 3: we've really got them, now, don't I don't understand that? 552 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, what do you think Trump's gonna point AOC 553 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 1: to the post Now He's gonna point another hardcore pro 554 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: defense Republican. 555 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I don't understand that level of politics. 556 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 3: But anyway, we got that a lot of other stuff 557 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 3: on the ways to hear our three, We're gonna talk 558 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 3: to someone covering the Luigi trial. That scumbag murderer I 559 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 3: did just re saw the video. God, that guy needs 560 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 3: to if we had if we're gonna have a death penalty, 561 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 3: that guy should be executed. 562 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: But he's handsome, and some people are unhappy about their 563 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: health insurance, so we should murder young dads, say people 564 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: who ought have he denied the effing vote immediately morons? Anyway, 565 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: So remember when Trump promised to exempt tips from taxes 566 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: to win Nevada. It was a clever political ploy and 567 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: then it was passed into law. This past summer creates 568 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: a number of challenges though, uh, the tax break does 569 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: not exempt tips from taxes entirely, but it's incentive for 570 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: people to earn more of them obviously lost pass and 571 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: people adjust their behavior to them tax laws especially, that's 572 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: one thing liberals never get anyway. To avoid some sort 573 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: of giant economy wide shift of earnings into tips, the 574 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: IRS and the Treasury have imposed some limits. Only people 575 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: who work jobs that have customarily and regularly received tips 576 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: can claim the deduction, like talk show hosts. Exactly, yeah, 577 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: we've started to go fund me. No we haven't anyway, 578 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: so on a list of nearly seventy eligible occupations under 579 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: the IRS list detailed in a proposed regulation in September 580 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: where digital content creators, entertainers and performers and dancers categories 581 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: that are to be a boon for America's sex workers. 582 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: Everybody's thinking, yes, all these tips that I get online 583 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: are now tax free. 584 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't know what administration. Yes, I didn't know 585 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 3: what you meant by digital content creators. I thought that 586 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 3: those people get tips. You mean only fans people. 587 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: Among others. Yeah, okay, well there's a hell of a 588 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: lot of different digital content, but sure, yeah, but the 589 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: Trump administration then added the tips for prostitution or pornographic 590 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: activity quote unquote would not be entitled to the new 591 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: tax break. Okay, so obviously that was a disappointment, or 592 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: at least or a head scratcher too. 593 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 3: People post, hey, that's some nice fornicating. Here's twenty percent. 594 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 3: I'm disappointed in that fornicating. I'll give you a fifteen 595 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 3: percent tip, but try harder. Well, that's that's how it works. 596 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 3: That's precisely how it works for the online performance. 597 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: You call it. Take for the coins are well, I 598 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: try to understand stories before I launch into them. So anyway, Oh, 599 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: so where were we? Oh? Okay, So people who post 600 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: sexually explicit or even just sensual comments on platforms like 601 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: only Fans where users leave tips aren't quite sure where 602 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: to where this is going now. Performers in the adult 603 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: entertainment industry already face difficulties accessing basic financial services. They 604 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: know idea, but that's another difficulty. It certainly is. But 605 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: nobody's sure how restrictions on pornographic activity would actually work 606 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: because the IRS, like the rest of us, has not 607 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: yet elaborated on which activities it would consider pornographic. It's unclear, 608 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: for instance, whether strippers could claim the tips deductions. How 609 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: about exotic dancers who just lose their top. How about 610 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: those who take off their top in their bottom? Plenty 611 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: of activity, an accountan or tax lawyer could argue is 612 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: merely titillating and not pornographic. Where's the line? How about 613 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: some girl who does yoga in a bikini? How about 614 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: some gal or guy who just shows their feet to 615 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,479 Speaker 1: people who get super turned on by feet. They are 616 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: getting sexual gratification from it, yet is it pornographic? And 617 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: can you deny them the right to deduct those tips 618 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: from their taxes? Ought somebody do yoga and tights and 619 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: giving them tips? You know? 620 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 4: All right? 621 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I realize you'd like to write some 622 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: sort of ironclad list of what you should be turned 623 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: on by and whatnot and publish that as some sort 624 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: of bible. I find the tax what is porn? Question 625 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: to be more interesting? But whatever? All right? Moving along? 626 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: Perhaps the greatest scam in the history of mankind. The 627 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: people of Europe, those poor bastards. They've all got to 628 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: learn like three four languages. What we've changed subjects? I 629 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: was not dragging. We're on a different subject here, yes, yeah, 630 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: on a different topic. European politicians told their voters, we 631 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: go with this big green energy thing. We'll have green 632 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: jobs and cheap, abundant solar and wind energy, also a 633 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: sharp production in carbon emissions, and the poor Euros, having 634 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: learned three or four languages, got screwed. We're two decades 635 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: in and energy prices have skyrocketed. They've caught their they've 636 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: cut their carbon emissions. Great, yeah, China and India, like, 637 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: that's cute way to go, idiots. Yeah, they've cut their 638 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: carbon emissions by more than any other region, thirty percent 639 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: compared to seventeen percent for US. But listen to their 640 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: energy prices, which you and people who pay high energy 641 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: prices in the US, you think you're getting hosed. Now, 642 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: granted these are national averages, and somebody's getting hosed. That 643 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: does count as pornography if they're doing yoga. I'm not 644 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: sure certainly the US. In the US, we pay and 645 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: this is an average. So if you're in you know, Oklahoma, 646 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: it's different than California. You pay eight point one CeNSE 647 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: per kiloodd hour eight cents in the In the UK 648 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 1: they're paying thirty four cents. 649 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 3: Wow a kiloodd hour I that it was crazy high 650 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 3: because of their zero policies. 651 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 1: I didn't know it was that much, so it's quadruple. 652 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: Italy's a little behind that at twenty nine, Germany twenty seven, 653 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: Poland twenties five ish, France twenty one ish. But yeah, 654 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: unfreaking believable. Charles Seacook of National Review. He's from England. 655 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 3: He regularly talks about how much cheaper everything is in 656 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 3: the United States, and people in the United States. 657 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: Don't realize it. 658 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 3: It's just so much cheaper just to live compared to Europe. 659 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, Germany now has the highest domestic electricity prices in 660 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: the developed world. There's also industrial energy prices, which complicates 661 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: this a little bit. Well. The UK is the highest 662 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: industrial electricity rates. Average electricity prices for heavy industries in 663 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: the European Union remain roughly twice those in the US 664 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: and fifty percent higher in China. No wonder their economy 665 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: suck and energy prices have grown more volatile as the 666 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: share of renewables increased, so they skyrocket up and down, 667 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: crippling industry, hobbling Europe's ability to attract key economic drivers 668 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: like AI, which requires cheap and abundant electricity. They just 669 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: got ripped off, defrauded. 670 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 3: So I got a question, Yeah, so is the Trump 671 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 3: administration arguing for more of those places to count as 672 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 3: tips or fewer of those places of activities to kind 673 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 3: of tips like the person doing yoga and stretching on 674 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 3: camera for people who want to watch them do yoga. 675 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 3: Are they trying to get that included or trying not 676 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 3: to They're trying to guess, I would guess they're trying 677 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 3: to minimize the number of people who could deduct tips, 678 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 3: just for revenue reasons, like any deduction. I thought they 679 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 3: were going to try to broaden it just to include 680 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 3: as many people as possible, but they already you know, 681 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 3: he's not running for election again, so he doesn't need 682 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 3: to do that again. 683 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: Right right, So now you make these political promises and 684 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: the IRS has to figure out and you know, a 685 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 1: more mundane example of it is, all right, what is 686 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: a work expense? Is? 687 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 3: Are there going to become court cases like trying to 688 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,479 Speaker 3: figure out whether or not somebody's showing their feet? 689 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: If people are turned on, they will have to be right, 690 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 1: A judge will have to decide right, Uh, yeah, unless 691 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: the IRS goes super liberal on that sort of stuff. 692 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: But yeah, absolutely could end up in court. Wow, I 693 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: have shown one breast your honor, one breast less. Is 694 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: not porn. This is not porn. That is really anatomy. 695 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 3: We get a lot more of the way if you 696 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 3: miss a segment or now or get a podcast Armstrong 697 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 3: and getting on