WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Halloween Extravaganza 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.320 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:04.600 by the monster that is definitely under your bed. You 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:09.239 should look right now, it's really scary now. Instead, it's 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.200 brought to you by the thing that might keep you 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.600 safe from the monster under your bed. That's right, pets 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.720 or pets that are waiting to be pets, or animals 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:21.400 that are waiting to be pets. Either way, go donate 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.160 to your local charity because pets are the best thing 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.760 ever and everybody needs a forever home, and you know 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:51.920 they help protect you from the monster under your bed. Well, 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.360 hey there, and welcome to a special episode of the 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.920 podcast past, the final week of our how Are We 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:07.600 In series and Halloween Extravaganza, a Halloween story. You got 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.039 to be creepy this week, not like last week. Yeah yeah, 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:15.000 yeah that one. Okay, sorry, it was a good one. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.720 It was. Well, I'll tell you what. So this is 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:20.360 one of those shows where we're going to cover three 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:24.080 different mysteries in one show. So buckle up and let's 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.679 get right into it. Since I'm the one doing all 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:28.640 the talking at the moment, I'll start us off. And 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.600 they're Halloween, so they're they're creepy, they're creepy stories for Halloween. 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:34.759 So don't be listening to this in the dark by 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.240 yourself more do that's your thing. The first story that 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.160 we're going to talk about is the unsolved murder of 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.120 Leroy Carter. Actually, you know, before we actually get in 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.400 the story, you know, I just realized people who don't 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.360 know us who we are. We're just in such a 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.400 good mood, just want to go what is my name? 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.120 Your Joe, your Devon and I'm Steve. It's true. There 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.280 we go. Instance this is Halloween. Just be warned. They're 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.760 all kind of gross, creepy stories. So munchkins around, maybe 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.320 turn the sweat off till later, oh just in case. Okay, 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:12.760 So my story, the Murder of Leroy Carter, takes place 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.639 in February nine, eight one in Golden Gate Park in 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:22.480 San Francisco, California. By definition, cannot be creepy because it's February. Yeah, 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.080 it's the only let me, let me, let me warm 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.360 up to it. You're gonna be creeped out. Specifically in 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.920 Golden Gate Park, though, our story takes place next to 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.440 Alverd Lake, which is really just a teeny tiny little 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:42.240 body of waters like twenty by forty but they anyway. Yeah, 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:46.320 well at the time in the park wasn't really a 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.480 nice place to hang out. It had a reputation at 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:56.680 night for having junkies and hoodlum's prowling around all the time. Hoodlums. Yeah, 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:58.280 and you know a lot of you when if you 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.400 read about this story, everybody brings up the fact that 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.600 it's right there at the end of Hate Street because 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.840 Hate Street is so famous. But it really doesn't have 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.400 anything to do with the story, but you'll see it. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:12.440 So our story specifically takes place, or it begins on Sunday, 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.480 the eighth of February, when somebody found a body in 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:18.600 the bushes. The body was inside of a sleeping bag, 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.440 and at first everything seemed normal, just another normal dead body, 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.880 yeah right, And it all seemed normal right up until 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.959 the police removed the bag, the sleeping bag from the 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.240 bushes and the body from the bag, only to discover 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.240 that the head was missing. It seems like your head 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.520 is usually like near the opening of the bag. So 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.920 it's like, seems like they would have noticed that sooner. 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:41.880 But okay, I probably as it was just a really 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.680 short homeless guy. Yeah, I don't know, but so the 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.080 the head is missing, and every article I've read said 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.680 that in place of a head in the neck which, 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.320 by the way, the neck had been cleanly cut with 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.160 a sharp object. Uh, probably did it in one stroke. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.520 But the investigators found in the neck shoved in there 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:08.960 were two corn cobs and a chicken wing. That's what 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:13.840 I used to replace heads normally. Yep, had a little placeholder. Yeah. 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.640 Reportedly also about a dozen yards away. Sometimes you'll see 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.960 this fifties sometimes a dozen. Uh, there was. The mutilated 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.360 bodies of a couple of chickens were also found, so 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.920 that unsolved crime has also not been solved. Who murdered 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.200 these poor chickens? Yeah, people don't seem to care that 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:36.360 much about chicken. It's it's foul um o. This is 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:41.000 Halloween stot making fun. So let's get into the story 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.200 that we'll get serious here. So the fingerprints, uh, the 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.039 fingerprint of the body, and they would learn that it 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:51.680 was twenty nine year old African American Vietnam veteran by 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.839 the name of Leroy Carter. Leroy had a small history 0:04:55.880 --> 0:05:00.000 of arrests, but nothing major. So it didn't explain why 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.440 he was headless in the park, Like he didn't get 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.039 whacked by doing some crazy job or making the wrong 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.200 people mad. I was homeless at the time, That is 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.880 absolutely correct. So he was sleeping in the park. Nothing 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.000 unusual about that for him, I guess it's true, But 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.679 but not to say that he deserved it. If somebody 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.440 I don't want anybody, I just want, there will be 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:22.880 no question about that in anybody's And that's not what 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:27.000 we said. So this is one in San Francisco, and 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.840 this is a case that immediately has the stink of 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.359 voodoo on it, and the cops that are investigating the 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.080 crime really don't want to do anything about it and 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.160 don't really know what to do about it. So they 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.840 turned the case over to Inspector Sandy Gallant. Now she 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:44.880 had made a bit of a name for herself in 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:49.240 dealing with odd cases. She had handled the investigation of 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:53.240 the San Francisco area members of the People's Temple. And 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.400 then you remember the People's Temple. This was a couple 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:58.920 of years after it. But they're the ones who all 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.920 moved to Anna and then took a couple of shots 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:08.480 at then Congressman Leo Ryan and and then famous and 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:12.960 then famously drank the flavor Raid and committed mass suicide. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.600 So she was involved in investigating those people in some 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.159 of the locals members of the church that were still 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:19.680 in the area. Now, we discussed that in one of 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.560 our previous episodes. We did. Now, as you can imagine, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.600 go on and all the other cops really don't know 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.680 what the heck they're dealing with. Like I said, they 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.400 figured it had to be something occult and voodoo wish, 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.080 but they didn't know what's going on. Yeah, I mean 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:34.640 the top of guys heading off head off and put 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.320 a couple of corn cops in there had a chicken 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.560 wing that's weird, and the just set it there. I 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.320 mean they stuffed it down with like a topic as 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.400 or something, didn't they. I heard that they were inserted 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.640 into the neck. I believe that would be the only 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:52.119 place that you could probably readily put so I figured 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.680 that way. Yeah, I mean I haven't I haven't be 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.560 headed very many people, but yeah, you know that's I 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.600 think that's the only big real hole there. Yeah. Now 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.560 Gallant she needs help, and she reaches out to a 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:08.000 guy named Charles well Wetley. He is the Dade County, 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:13.480 Florida corner that's like like South Florida. Yeah, that's Miami, right, yeah, 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:18.600 right in that area Miami did And she did this first. Okay, 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.600 I don't know how she what path led her to, 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:26.000 uh to talk to to Wetley, but apparently he had 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.840 dealt with similar or stuff like this, because she had 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.200 been led to believe that this might have been something 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:38.080 to do with the religion of Santa Ria, which yeah, 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.760 it's a it's a cribba. Well it it initially it's 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.720 actually from Central Africa, and then the slaves came to 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.200 the Caribbean and then it morphed the Actually the the 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.560 history of that religion, it's pretty interesting if you read 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.720 about it, the way that they hit it within Catholicism 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:55.560 so that they wouldn't get in trouble with their their 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:59.520 slave owners. But so this this leads her down that 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.880 path's say, okay, who knows about Santria? Okay, Wetley, Well, 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.360 she gets all to him and he tells her that, yeah, 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.960 it probably is connected, but more than likely it's actually 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:16.000 directly linked to an offshoot of that religion, which is 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.800 Palo Mayombe. I really hope I pronounced that right, That's 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:25.040 how I did it. It's it's a darker, creepier off. Yeah. Yeah, 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:29.640 there's there's already a little bit. There's much more sacrifice, 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:31.480 and we're gonna talk about some of the some theories 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.160 and and later on here we'll get into it. But 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.040 what actually, you know what, let's just talk about it 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.640 now because this is this is what's going on, is 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.640 Wetley is telling her that it's both likely that and 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.320 he's saying that what's happened is the head has probably 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:50.480 been taken to be used in I'm going to call 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.160 it a student like concoction to make a potion. Head's 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.240 gonna be boiled, it's gonna be then the remnants are 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.600 going to be used in some kind of black magic ritual. 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.400 I don't know what that would be. He didn't venture 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.200 to guess specifically what it was, but it was going 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:10.360 to be some type of ritual. Uh. Now, this offshoot religion, 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:15.360 the priests, Pilario's is what they're called, at least the men. Uh. 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:20.640 They use both animal and human body parts. In this case, 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.680 it would be the skull, the brain, the nose, the ears, 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.360 the basically everything that's on the head. Because I could 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.600 have just said the head to go into that potion 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.920 that they're making and then they can use it themselves 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.680 or they could sell it to somebody to use for whatever. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.360 And they were going to use that that ingredient mix 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.840 for That's still a thing that you see, uh, like 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.880 a lot in Africa these days, where um, there's this 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.440 big plight of kids who are born albino in certain 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:57.040 African communities because there are religions that are still practicing 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:01.800 in certain parts of Africa where albinos are like, I mean, 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.199 they're this is like what they do. They think that 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.160 like they have this insane magic inside of them, and 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.319 they are often no, no, no, they're not revered. They 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:15.280 are often slaughtered human human children are slaughtered to like 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.640 because they have some kind of magic. Yeah, exactly. And 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:20.920 that's like it's crazy to me that that's still happening. 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.600 But like, this isn't like a made up thing. This 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.520 is the thing that actually we have even now documented 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.959 proof that that's happening still. So so practitioners of that religion, 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.640 this is this is serious. Series is not like a 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:37.439 laughing matter. It's it's it's definitely the real deal for them. 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.240 So what Whatley says is he says, listen, they has 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:44.120 been taken, Uh, it's going to be used in this way. 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:49.000 But here's the thing. Whoever did it is probably going 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.800 to return it. And if they return it, they will 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.640 return it to the sit to the site of the murder, 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.400 and they will do it forty two days after the killing, 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.960 because that was a part of this, the whole ritual. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.960 You had to return Otherwise the whole thing doesn't work right. 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.760 It's it's a it's a piece of it. Wasn't there 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.000 another one like this where somebody sat, maybe recently even 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:12.760 where somebody said, no, the head's going to be returned 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:14.920 forty two days later, and they were like, yeah, okay, right, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:17.560 it might have been this one that I'm actually thinking 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.520 it's I'm pretty sure it's this one. Because this is 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:21.920 this is the biggest irony of this story. This is 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.080 why I like this story so much. Is that he 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.400 tells goal out this and she says, okay, great, And 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.520 on the forty second day where the cops staking out 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.680 the park and checking it all out and wait for 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.200 the murder, no, none of them went. None of them 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.080 believed it. And somebody did find the head in the 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.640 weeds on the forty second day, So our killer nearby 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:47.120 where locked up dumped the head in the tall grass 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:51.240 and just walked away Sky. That's one of the comical 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.000 things about this story. I don't I don't want to 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.080 sound like I'm making like because somebody who did die, 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.040 but I'm just just imagining to see it in the 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.440 cop in the cop shop, they're all standing around, you know, 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.880 chewing on a donut and have some coffee. If somebody 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.960 who walks in and says, hey, you'll never guess what 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:09.320 turned up. Yeah at yeah, I met. There were some 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:13.199 sour expressions. I don't think that went over so well. 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.320 It reminds me of that scene in The Boondock Saints 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:17.640 where like the local cops are like no, no, no, 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.160 these guys are miles away and the FBI guys there 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:22.880 and he's like, no, they're going to show up, and 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.160 like as the other guy, the local cop is like there, 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.320 I know all these names. I just don't think anybody 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.120 else's um He's like, no, no no, they're gonna be miles away. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.680 They like walk they walk into the police station like 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:35.680 while he's like ranting, And that reminds me of this 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.640 so much, where it's just like one person was like no, no, no, 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.640 it's gonna happen, and everyone else just kind of blew 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:43.679 them off, and the case totally would have been solved 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:49.040 if somebody would have just taken him seriously. But now, yeah, 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.080 because it was inspired by this, I'm pretty sure Troy 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.679 Duffy man. Okay, at least Sandy got to like, you know, 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.000 like bad to them about it endlessly for years until 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.800 you know what She's She's made a real name for 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:06.240 herself since then, dealing with weird cases that have the 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.600 occult and magic seemed to be linked to them, and 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.600 she takes these things deadly serious. Now, if this case 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.360 it happens, say, ten years later, and she had caught it, 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.880 she'd have been there on the forty second day. But 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.439 in the beginning she was still just so new that 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.120 the whole thing. She's like, I don't, I don't know. 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.160 Maybe well, I mean, realistically, things like this have to 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.280 happen for people to take it seriously. Right, So it 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:32.360 is a tragedy, right, but if if anything good came 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.640 of this, I'm sorry to say, something good could have 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.560 come to this. Hopefully it means that more cases in 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.440 the future and more contemporarily have been solved because the 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.160 investigators are taking it seriously and really saying like this 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.400 is actually a thing that happens, and we're going to 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.880 actually treat it with respect this time. Okay, Well, let's 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.520 let's get into the theories for this story. Okay, Okay, 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.080 So really there's a pretty shortlist of theories here. Yeah. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.920 The first one is that yes, it is Apollo may 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.760 umby thing, and that's what it was. And here's some 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:08.680 things to know. The there have been multiple cases where 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:13.360 the practitioners of this religion are stealing bodies or body 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.560 parts from graves. And the stuff that I've read has 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.320 led me to believe or understand that the fresher the body, 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.280 the stronger the power. That it does make sense, and 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.600 it just seems to me it would be easier. Frankly, 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.080 this may sound callous, but to just kill a homeless 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:31.800 dude in the sleeping bag then to go dig up 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.200 a grave, yeah, it's less likely get caught, uh, and 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.640 it's way fresher. Yeah. So here's there's a couple of 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.400 well known cases and I'll give you these here. So 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:46.480 this was in New York about a decade or so ago. 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.120 There was a pair of priests. They were a father 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.640 and son and they were found to have at least 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:57.080 two human skulls and some other human bones in pots 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.760 in the basement of their home, which the police were 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.000 pretty sure had been Pilford from a local graveyard. Then 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:09.280 a series of breaks. When you say in pots, pots 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:13.080 with water over over burners, it doesn't it never actually 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.000 specified that. I'm going to guess they were probably a 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.600 dry storage. They would only I don't think they would 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.040 keep them soaking until they needed him, because it's you know, 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.160 there's a recipe you do it for a certain amount 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:24.600 of time with certain things. So I doubt they just 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.520 had them sitting around pretty so in the freezer. Yeah, 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.680 I don't know, man, I would pre brew because you 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:32.520 just stick a cork in it and then you know, 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.720 somebody says, hey, I'm gonna buy this thing from me, 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.080 and you say, great, here a hundred bucks. They don't 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.920 have time to question am I going to come back 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:41.640 to that? And I don't think that's I don't think 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:43.560 that's right, because if you think about it, there's a 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.320 certain mystique to saying, come back to me in forty 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.160 two days, I will have brewed your thing. That really 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.960 they could have been brewing there the thing, but you 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:59.120 don't know that everything takes the same ingredients regards. Okay, 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.560 there have been there is also there's another one. This 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.040 was also I don't know why these are out in 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.640 New York, but there was another one where a woman 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.800 had was found with a bunch of bones and it 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.440 turned out her followers had been the ones that were 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.280 going out and stealing the bones from the graveyard, and 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.960 they busted the guy. I remember, they busted the guy 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.080 with the bones, and he then turned around and squealing 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.440 on her and that's how they got her. Um, there's 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.920 and there's here's one that's a little more in line 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.960 with what we're dealing with with our case, which is 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.600 back in the eighties in Mexico City, there was a 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:37.160 guy by the name of a Dolfo Costanzo and he 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.200 started practicing the religion and by the end of the decade, 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.400 this guy had kind of gone off the deep end. 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.880 He got in bed with the cartels and so these 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.840 things that he was making, these spells were for the 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.800 cartel to help things go better for them when they 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.720 eventually got him, and you know, he would be shot 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:59.080 to death by day. I mean the authorities and correct 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.200 for the police. Yes, you're right. The police cornered him 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.080 and so he had one of his own people take 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.920 him out. But yeah, they found they found, gosh what 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.080 it was like thirteen bodies buried on his property, in 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:17.280 various states of decomposition, in various parts missing from them, 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.000 and the whole thing came crashing down on him because 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.480 he was in thirteen it was fifteen bodies, but he 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.040 had he had made the mistake or his people did, 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.280 of killing a US student who was there on spring break. 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:35.440 He was a premed student, if I remember right. And 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.480 then the US was like, hey, you need to take 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.920 this guy out. So then they went ahead and went 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:41.960 after him, and that's how the whole thing came crashing 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.480 down for him. So but I mean this the shows 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.240 that this does happen. It's not as if we've just 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.760 kind of made this up on our own. It also 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.679 might help explain the mutilated chickens, because I have I 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:58.040 have read a few articles that at least anecdotally link 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:02.479 chicken mutilation or other kind of ritualistic mutilation mutilation of 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:07.480 animals to this kind of spell casting. So I don't know, 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.879 if you know, I'm not a member of that group. 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.960 So I don't actually know the rules, right, but I 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.040 would assume that, you know, there'd be some sort of 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.480 connection there if it was a ritual. Right, poor chickens, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.080 you know, we eat them, we steal their eggs, and 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:24.760 then we grab and use them and this stuff. It's 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.600 just like that. They're kind of jerks chickens. Yeah, Okay, 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:30.640 I don't care that it's coming from a guy who 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:35.760 has chickens. But but you know, the other thing we 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:37.720 talked about this a little bit earlier is not only 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:39.880 is this deadly serious of these people and it's real, 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.920 but it turns out for the priests, it is a 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:47.080 huge cash cow. Yeah, and so you could see the 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.240 appeal of let's say, let's just say somebody comes to 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.640 the priests and says, I need you to do this thing, 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.119 for this crazy, crazy thing. He says, oh, well, that's 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.960 gonna take the most powerful spell ever and to do that, 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.199 it's gonna cost you out a lot of money and 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.160 I'm gonna have to go to this huge length. So 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.119 that's gonna mean it's gonna be even more money. And 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.960 you know, realistically he doesn't maybe do as much other 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.600 than he does, as Joe said, sneak into the park 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:15.800 and find a sleeping homeless guy and chop his head 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.200 off with a machete, because I'm pretty sure it's a machete. Yeah, 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:21.760 but then that would bump the price a little bit. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.840 Murder somebody, very ingredients. Yeah, sorry, this is very calcium. 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:27.680 But I kind of like the idea of like you 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.120 go see your your whatever, which doctor, priest, whatever, and 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:36.040 you know, you say, listen, I need this whatever miracle 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.960 level thing done, and he goes, okay, well do you 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.040 have the head? And you're like, what do you mean? 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:42.640 Do I have the head? And he's like the human head. 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:44.360 I need the human head. And you're like, I don't 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:46.080 have the human head. What do you mean? And they're like, 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.000 oh that price, that like a hundred thousand dollar price 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.159 that I told you that was if you brought your 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.800 own head. You don't have your own head. Well the 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:59.600 cost yeah it doubled, so all right, your own head. 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:07.040 Yeah yeah that makes sense. But I like the idea, like, 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:08.960 you know, you go to this guy and he telling 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:10.639 me your issue, and he submits a bid too, and 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.359 it's got the itemized list. Okay, okay, murder helpless hobost 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:19.439 geth head. You I'm really sorry. This is like, we 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.960 don't think it's funny that like this murder happened on 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.760 we've turned this into a sitcom scenario. But also, I'm 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:27.959 really sorry to anybody. I actually, I guess I'm not. 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:30.560 I was going to apologize to anybody who practices pollo. 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.760 My don't kill us, but I don't really I'm sorry, 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:35.720 we don't put a hex on us. Let's finish up 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.240 the theory that. Yeah, okay, so the final bit of 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.080 the theory is, well, why was it leroy? And really 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.920 what it comes down to is it most likely he 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.760 was just in the wrong place at the wrong time 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.320 according to this theory. From there, we've got we've got 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.240 two other theories. One is that it's just a random 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:59.600 murder which some random killer went out there and sliced 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.280 his head off and thinking it was funny, shoves the 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:05.840 core cops in the chicken wing in his neck. And 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.480 then because of all of the press coverage, because by 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.760 the way, this thing was covered in the news a 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.479 little bit at the time, but it did get some coverage. 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:17.720 It wasn't like, you know, national news, but it wasn't 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.159 the did they actually say the news that all the 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:24.359 Santa stuff the head would be returned. I think that 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.680 that was in the paper. I was trying to find 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:28.240 articles from the time. But you know how hard it 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.600 is sometimes to a real especially if it's not like 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.880 a crazy story. But I mean you could see where 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.280 this guy says, oh, wait, I still have the head 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:38.920 because I was going to make it into an ash 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:42.960 tray where the head is, but the cops wanted there. Oh, 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.199 I'll just take it back. And then, you know, as 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:47.119 Joe and say, this throws him off the trail for 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.480 when I do my next killing. Well, I will say, 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:55.919 I assume the cops searched that specific patch where the 0:21:55.960 --> 0:22:01.399 head did show up. But but but we're assuming, right, Like, 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.760