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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back George Nor with you along with

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Speaker 1: doctor Robert Picconi. His website is guide to the Cosmos

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Speaker 1: dot com, linked up at Coast to Coast am dot

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Speaker 1: com as well. Robert, what are the odds of the

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Speaker 1: universe forming the way it did, planets forming the way

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Speaker 1: they did, life forming the way it did. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's astronomical, isn't it. The odds are very close to

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Speaker 1: zero as far as I could calculate. Yes. And you know,

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Speaker 1: if you want to talk about the origin of the universe,

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Speaker 1: it turns out that most of the interesting scientific topics,

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Speaker 1: even the ones that are still unanswered, have something to

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Speaker 1: do with Einstein. And what Einstein said about the universe

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Speaker 1: is what really interested him is whether God had any

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Speaker 1: choice when he created the universe? What kind of choice? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the question. So what I think he meant was

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Speaker 1: do the laws of nature require the universe to be

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Speaker 1: just what we see? You know, so there was no choice?

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Speaker 1: Or could the universe have been radically different? You know,

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Speaker 1: maybe not even without any stars, maybe not even with life.

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Speaker 1: And in Einstein's time, we really didn't know. But you know,

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Speaker 1: now we're about sixty years after he died, and we

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Speaker 1: know that radically different universes, including universes that have no

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Speaker 1: stars and have no life, are not only possible, but

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Speaker 1: they're much more likely to be created than a universe

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Speaker 1: like ours that does support life. Robert, do you think

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Speaker 1: of Einstein had computers like we have today, that he

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Speaker 1: would change some of his theories or would he even

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Speaker 1: be able to get some more that we probably aren't

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Speaker 1: even aware of? You know, I think he probably wouldn't

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Speaker 1: even be able to use a computer. He needed that chockboard,

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Speaker 1: didn't he. Yes, yes, that you know, his brain worked

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Speaker 1: in an entirely different way, and very thing in strange. Guy, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he sure was. Now let's get into what you think

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Speaker 1: the essential requirements for life, what they may be? What

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Speaker 1: are they? Well, first of all, you need a viable universe,

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Speaker 1: which is what I would call finely tuned. Okay. Then

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Speaker 1: you need to have stars that produce the energy and

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Speaker 1: the atoms that life requires. You need thirdly to have

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Speaker 1: a suitable habitat. We have the Earth, but there might

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Speaker 1: be other habitats that would work too. And lastly, and critically,

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Speaker 1: you need to have a recipe for life. You need

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Speaker 1: to have a recipe that tells you how to put

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Speaker 1: a living thing together, because we all self assemble, right,

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Speaker 1: and you need to have a recipe for all of

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Speaker 1: the myriad of biological processes that you know, convert the

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Speaker 1: food we take in into the nutrients we actually need

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Speaker 1: in our cells, and pump the nutrients to those cells,

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Speaker 1: and on and on and on and sustain life. So

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Speaker 1: the life, I can't define what it is, but it's

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Speaker 1: obviously extremely complicated. I mean, I think the human body

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Speaker 1: produces almost a million different types of proteins. Well in

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Speaker 1: addition to all that too, Robert, I mean, when you

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Speaker 1: look at life, you know, look at a dog or

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Speaker 1: a cat, beauty beautiful animals that you know, have a

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Speaker 1: finite way of going about their life where you know,

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Speaker 1: they wake up, they eat, and they do their thing,

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Speaker 1: but they can't build things like we build and things

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Speaker 1: like that. Look at look at the complexity of the

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Speaker 1: human mind, in the human being. Look what we've been

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Speaker 1: able to accomplish already in just the short time that

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Speaker 1: humans have been on the planet, and what we're going

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Speaker 1: to be able to accomplish in the next fifty to

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Speaker 1: one hundred years. I mean, once again, the odds of

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Speaker 1: all that happening are just like you said, almost zero.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look look at our thought process. We've sent

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Speaker 1: people to the moon, we've been out of the solar system,

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Speaker 1: We're developing more and more things, right, I mean, who

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Speaker 1: would create something like that by accident? Well, I have

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Speaker 1: no idea how it could be created by accident. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I could. I think I can mathematically prove that's impossible

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Speaker 1: for it to be created by accident, which tells us

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Speaker 1: what you know. I don't have the answer. There are

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Speaker 1: so anybody's favorite answer is as good as anybody else's answer.

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Speaker 1: Many people would say it had to be God that

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Speaker 1: had the wisdom and the power to create all of

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Speaker 1: this according to his design. That's fine. I basically that

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Speaker 1: there are scientists. I mean, for instance, Stephen Hawking, he's

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Speaker 1: a famous scientist, have passed away in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years, and his last book was called The Grand Design,

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Speaker 1: which was actually terrible titles considering what he put in

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Speaker 1: the book. And I think he wrote that with Leonard

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Speaker 1: lot enough, right, yes, and Hawking probably actually didn't write

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Speaker 1: much of it, is my guest, Right, I think Leonard did,

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Speaker 1: and Leonard told us once on this program Hawking believed

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Speaker 1: in God. Well, some of the things that he said

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Speaker 1: indicate that, and some of the things that he said

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Speaker 1: indicate he didn't. But in his book he comes to

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Speaker 1: the conclusion that God doesn't exist. Yeah, I think he

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Speaker 1: changed after a while. But so that book claims that

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Speaker 1: there are an infinite number of universes. Ours is just one,

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Speaker 1: and with an infinity of possibilities, everything that you could

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Speaker 1: possibly conceive of has to exist in at least one universe.

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Speaker 1: You know, infinity is big enough to cover everything. I

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Speaker 1: think infinities a carpet, intellectual carpet that people sweep topics

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Speaker 1: under that they don't want to talk about. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: so that's what he said. And he said, if there's

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Speaker 1: an infinite number of universes, then even something as strange

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Speaker 1: and exotic as life, and exotic as human life asked

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Speaker 1: to occur somewhere, and therefore we don't need God. You know,

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Speaker 1: my mother always used to tell me Robert, when I

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Speaker 1: would ask her that question, you know, what is God?

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Speaker 1: She simply said, God always was and always will be.

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Speaker 1: And I said, Mom, that's not an answer for me.

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Speaker 1: I need more than that. And I still need more

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Speaker 1: than that, Robert. You know, I believe in a divine creator.

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Speaker 1: I believe that there's something that has sparked what we

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Speaker 1: know is our life and our universe. What I don't

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Speaker 1: know is how you know one. You know, if one

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Speaker 1: is very, very religious, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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Speaker 1: You merely accept the fact that God always was, always

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Speaker 1: will be and that's the way it is. And Jesus

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Speaker 1: was the son of God and came down to save

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Speaker 1: us and things like that. But I need a little

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Speaker 1: bit more than that. And it is so baffling and

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Speaker 1: puzzling and sometimes frustrating that the answer isn't right under

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Speaker 1: our nose. We expect answers, don't we We do, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we do that. The way humans are organized, we expect answers.

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Speaker 1: It's very difficult to us to face the fact that

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Speaker 1: there may not be an answer. Incidentally, Einstein had the

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Speaker 1: same religious beliefs you do. That's good, and so did Newton.

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Speaker 1: And I think he took the theory of E equals

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Speaker 1: mc square from me. Well, you probably weren't born then, huh. No,

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Speaker 1: I was not born then, that's for sure. That's one

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten years ago or so. Well, here's an

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Speaker 1: interesting phrase. Some scientists claim science proves God does not exist,

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Speaker 1: but you think they could be wrong. Tell me, tell

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Speaker 1: me about that. Well, yeah, I mean Hawking gave the

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Speaker 1: most cojing of those arguments that all you need to

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Speaker 1: do to get rid of God is to have an

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Speaker 1: infinite number of universes and everything you can think of

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Speaker 1: exist in one. But I look at that argument and

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Speaker 1: I say Hawking got it backwards, because if there an

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Speaker 1: infinite number of universes and something anything you can think

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Speaker 1: that exists in some universe, then obviously there has to

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Speaker 1: be a universal God. You seem to be tipping without

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Speaker 1: the answer, but you seem to be tipping to the

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Speaker 1: belief of some kind of divine creator. Well, I would

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Speaker 1: be comfortable with that, but you know, I'm a scientist,

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Speaker 1: and I can't. I can't. There certainly is no scientific

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Speaker 1: evidence that proves God does not exist. It would be

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Speaker 1: very difficult to prove something does not exist, but and

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Speaker 1: we have not done that and we probably never will.

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Speaker 1: But also conversely, there's no scientific evidence that God does exist.

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Speaker 1: You know, science doesn't take testimony as evidence, even if

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Speaker 1: the testimony came from Albert Einstein. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: it says so in the Bible, that's not scientific evidence.

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Speaker 1: Science works when we have these reproducible phenomenon that anybody

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Speaker 1: in the universe can observe whenever they want to and

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Speaker 1: whatever instruments they have and come up with a consistent answer.

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Speaker 1: And that's not the situation with God. So we have

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Speaker 1: calls from some people who are very astute, they're atheists.

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Speaker 1: We get calls from people who are true believers in

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Speaker 1: a God, and we have others on the fence. They're

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Speaker 1: they're agnostic. They want to believe, but they don't have

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Speaker 1: the facts in their own mind to believe it. But

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Speaker 1: let's talk for a moment, if we can, Robert about

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Speaker 1: an atheist, a total nonbeliever. What get somebody to that

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Speaker 1: point of being just a total skeptic about even the

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Speaker 1: possibility that there could be some kind of divine intervention? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've given a lot of talks at various

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Speaker 1: religious organizations, and all of the religious leaders there that

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Speaker 1: have invited me have said that science is not an

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Speaker 1: impediment to people being religious. The major impediment to people

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Speaker 1: being religious, they all say, is the existence of evil.

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Speaker 1: So when bad things happen, and they do, and they

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Speaker 1: always do, and they happen to good people and so on.

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Speaker 1: The question that comes to some many people's mind is

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Speaker 1: why did God allow that to happen. Here's this wonderful

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Speaker 1: person and they get run over by a truck and

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Speaker 1: they leave behind, you know, five starving children. Why didn't

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Speaker 1: God run over some gangbanger instead? And you can't explain

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Speaker 1: these things, and for some people that negates any possibility

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Speaker 1: that they could believe in the benevolent, omnipotent God who

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Speaker 1: allows bad things to happen. Well, and in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: in the early part of the Bible, the Genesis Fortune,

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Speaker 1: you would you would really read about a very vindictive God. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Old Testament God is different from the New Testament.

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Speaker 1: He sure is, he sure is, or it sure is. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What about what about the how can science? Can science

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Speaker 1: prove life? Well, we don't have a definition. I mean,

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Speaker 1: everybody seems to know when they see something that's alive,

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Speaker 1: but but they don't know how or why. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to define it. But it's one of the

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Speaker 1: things that's essential about life is how complicated it is.

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Speaker 1: So all of these things that are necessary to support

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Speaker 1: life take an immense amount of information, and so one

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Speaker 1: what I focus on is how can all of that

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Speaker 1: information have been created from a bunch of inorganic matter exactly?

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Speaker 1: And then it ends up being what we are today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So everything you know, all the complicated things that you

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Speaker 1: spoke of earlier, all those things that human beings can do,

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Speaker 1: that the incredible capacity of our brain, all of that

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Speaker 1: is fundamentally due to what's in our DNA. And I

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Speaker 1: didn't even touch upon things like dreaming, you know, having consciousness, telepathy,

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Speaker 1: the paranormal end of living, people who have had near

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Speaker 1: death experiences and they talk about what they think the

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Speaker 1: other side might be. I mean, when you look at

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Speaker 1: all of this, it is the most amazing complex puzzle

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Speaker 1: you'll ever come across. That's right, and everything that we're

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Speaker 1: capable of is in our DNA. There are some days, Robert,

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Speaker 1: that I say, don't worry George about figuring it out.

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Speaker 1: Just enjoy your life, have a great time, because you're

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Speaker 1: not going to get the answer. And then there's that

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Speaker 1: newsperson and me, Robert, that has been you know, pushing

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Speaker 1: me all my life, that wants the answers, that needs

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Speaker 1: the answers, and I'm not going to give up until

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Speaker 1: I get them. Well, so what I do is I

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Speaker 1: try to enjoy life and go after the answers. There's

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. Yeah, what would you say in

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Speaker 1: terms of life makes all of this even so remarkable?

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Speaker 1: Would you call? Would you say it's DNA? What would

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Speaker 1: be the trigger point? I think DNA is the key

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Speaker 1: from a scientific point of view? All right, tell me why. Okay,

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Speaker 1: DNA is the most exquisite structure that science has discovered anywhere,

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Speaker 1: in anything at all. It our DNA, a human one

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Speaker 1: piece of human DNA has one hundred billion atoms. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And those atoms come together to form three billion symbols,

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Speaker 1: which are a code. The code is in four letters,

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Speaker 1: and so you have three billion symbols that are four

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Speaker 1: letters long, and that defines everything you are at the

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Speaker 1: at the moment of birth. Now, that's enough information to

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Speaker 1: fill one thousand, five hundred volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannicae.

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Speaker 1: If anybody in the audience is old enough to remember

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Speaker 1: what that was. And the people used to come to

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Speaker 1: your door to sell them. Yeah, and I bought one once. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I thought my kids would learn from it, but that

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Speaker 1: never happened. The Internet came along, and you know they

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Speaker 1: don't open books anymore, right, But anyway, So, somehow or other,

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Speaker 1: this this exquisitely complicated thing that defines everything that we are,

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Speaker 1: had to come out of an inert piece of matter,

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Speaker 1: you know, some random chemicals sitting in a pond that

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Speaker 1: got hit with a lightning bolt or something. That's what

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Speaker 1: most scientists think. This DNA code didn't something have to

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Speaker 1: construct it and write the code for it to be

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Speaker 1: so logical. Well, what I have shown in my book,

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Speaker 1: which is particularly the book titled Can Life Be Merely

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Speaker 1: an Accident? I calculate the probability that this could have

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Speaker 1: occurred by this random process that science has been talking about,

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Speaker 1: and the odds of that are just astronomically, ridiculously unreasonable. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no way that could possibly happen. It's like you

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Speaker 1: and I going to buy one powerball ticket and we

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Speaker 1: hit it. You know what, We theoretically can hit it,

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Speaker 1: but we're not going to. It's more like you're buying

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Speaker 1: a million powerball tickets and every one of them as

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Speaker 1: a winner. Yeah. You know, there was a famous astronomer,

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Speaker 1: h cosmologist, a British guy named Sir Fred Hoyle, and

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Speaker 1: he said that the idea that life could be assembled

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Speaker 1: by random chemical reactions as it was as ridiculous forming

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Speaker 1: a Boeing seven forty seven by a tornado whirling through

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Speaker 1: a judge. But he doesn't provide the alternative though, That's

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Speaker 1: the thing nobody can. No, No, there's no I mean

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Speaker 1: other than God? Which is is? That? Is that? And

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Speaker 1: I want I'm being respective here, but is but is

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Speaker 1: simply saying God did this a cop out? Well, I

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Speaker 1: don't say I wouldn't think of it as a cop out.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's a serious religious belief, and I think

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Speaker 1: the people that believe that are entirely sincere. Well, no

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Speaker 1: question not good enough or probably also entirely. But isn't

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Speaker 1: it an easy answer to this? Yes, that's that's that

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Speaker 1: was what I meant. Yes, I don't when I say

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Speaker 1: God was a cop out, I don't mean it in

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Speaker 1: a disrespectful way. I meant it was just And scientists

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Speaker 1: will say it's star winning an evolution. But but and

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Speaker 1: that's a cop out too, because you know that doesn't

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Speaker 1: provide any information. And Stephen Hawking's infinite number of universes

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Speaker 1: is also a cop out because what he's telling you

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Speaker 1: is just completely random chance. So there's you know, there's

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Speaker 1: no answer there. That's why I complain about the book

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Speaker 1: being titled The Grand Design, because in the end he

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Speaker 1: says there is no Grand Design, it's just random luck.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more