1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and four, 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: which is airing in late June of twenty twenty one. 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: This is going to be a graduation inspired episode of 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: advice we would give our twenty year old selves or 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 1: sometimes our thirty year old seves. Sarah had a lot 15 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: of graduations. I had far fewer. But we will, you know, 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: talk about things, you know, our new graduate self, where 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: we're into and doing, and what we think of that now. 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: But Sarah, what graduations do you most remember? I remember 19 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: my college graduation very vividly. I think just it probably 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: felt like such a huge milestone, like the stepping stone 21 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: towards adulthood or something, because I remember cleaning out my dorm. 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: I remember seeing everyone's parents. I have like vivid imagery 23 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: of some of the people who lived in this little 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: house on campus, like kind of what they looked like 25 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: on that last day. Like clearly that imprinted really hard. 26 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: And every graduation I had after that I remember very little, 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: So I don't know that was the impactful one. I 28 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: guess I sort of remember high school graduation, but not 29 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: nearly as vividly as college. That's interesting because I think 30 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: my high school graduation was more vivid for me than 31 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: my college one. I spoke at my high school graduation, 32 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: which was very exciting. I'm sure my speech was terribly 33 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: overwrought and such as what happened one does when one 34 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: I was eighteen. I did go back and speak there twice, 35 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: as their commencement speaker later redeemed myself in those But yeah, 36 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: I remember it was just such this sense of possibility, 37 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: because I mean, it was off to college in the fall, 38 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: leaving Indiana, which is something I had wanted to do 39 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: for a very long time since moving to Indiana. You know, 40 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 1: I remember two girls singing the ten thousand Maniac song, 41 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: these are days. At the ceremony, the lyrics or you know, 42 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: never before and never since I promised will the world 43 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: be warm as this? Or something along those lines. Heady 44 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: time college graduation four years later. That was a good 45 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: year coming out. I mean, we'll talk a little bit 46 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: about sort of our postgraduate life, but I have fewer 47 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: memories of that. I was moving straight from my dorm 48 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: to Washington, d C. To go live with a couple 49 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: girls there, and I was doing an internship at USA today. 50 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: The graduation itself, the thing I remember about it is 51 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: that Bill Cosby spoke at one of the events, and curiously, 52 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: Garrison Keeler spoke at another. And now there's there's interesting 53 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: parallels with all this. Apparently our classes taste in speakers 54 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: would not survive the passage of years. But Bill Cosby 55 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: actually made a very funny joke about Woodrow Wilson, because 56 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: you know, Woodrow Wilson was his name used to be 57 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: all over Princeton everywhere, and it is now our feelings 58 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: about Woodrow Wilson have evolved. But Bill Cosby was a 59 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: bit ahead of his time on this. Because one of 60 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: my friends, who's an Asian American young man, had won 61 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: this prestigious Woodrow Wilson Award for something, and Bill Cosby 62 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: was like either announcing it or hearing them announce it, 63 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: and he's like, Woodrow Wilson would be turning over in 64 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: his grave. He just saw this, And a couple of 65 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: years later Princeton reached the same conclusion, and now Woodrow 66 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: Wilson's name is not on anything, and so that's, you know, 67 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: it's an interesting turn of events. But of course Bill 68 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: Cosby's turnout events as well has been interesting. And little 69 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: did I know that, you know, fifteen years later he 70 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: would face trial and what would turn out to be 71 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: my local courthouse where we in fact do jury duty. 72 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: I was very glad it was not called for that jury. 73 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that would have been insane. But anyway, 74 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: do you have any graduates in your house currently, Sarah? 75 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: I was just going to comment that I feel like 76 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: your your graduation was like as dated as it could 77 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: possibly be. Yes, yes, it's just like I don't know, Yeah, 78 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: back when people could have invited Bill Cosby to speak 79 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: and thought that that was great, but you know, now 80 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: it's an entirely different thing to say that he spoke 81 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: your graduation. Well, time passes. I guess that means we're old. 82 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: I do not have any graduates in my house currently. 83 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: It is a bit of a milestone in that, as 84 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: I've discussed, I am moving Annabel to the school where 85 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: the other two go, so I will have it's a 86 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: big deal that I am like anticipating this school year 87 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: where we're all in the same place. Which as I 88 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: was putting together the calendar as one does when one 89 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: is crazy like me for next year, I was like, 90 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: oh my god, there's only one calendar. This has not 91 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: happened since And I thought back, and it had not 92 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: happened since Annabel was in pre K and Cameron was 93 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: in like the twos class and Genevieve was not born. 94 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: So it's like been a while. And so I guess 95 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: that's my exciting thing. And Annabel actually would have had 96 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: a graduation had she been enrolled in Cameron's school, because 97 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: they have graduations at I think the end of kindergarten, 98 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: the end of third grade, and then the end of 99 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: sixth grade when they it's like a Montessori thing when 100 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: they move up a level anyway, So but no, but 101 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: you have a very big graduation year in your house. 102 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: I don't think I realized that. Yeah, well we have three. 103 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: We have been attending three graduations in various forms. Curiously, 104 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: the eighth grade graduation when we're recording this in mid June. 105 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: I watched the live streamed version of it yesterday. They 106 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: did not have the parents come in for it, but 107 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: I got to say, you know, it's kind of there 108 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: are some upsides to sitting out in the hot sun 109 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: and watching hundreds of kids walk across a stage. I 110 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: will give that. We're watching a fifth grade live streamed 111 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: graduation today, so that's another one. And then we had 112 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: a kindergarten graduation last week and that was outdoors and 113 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: in person, small class though, it was only twelve kids 114 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: or so, but it was great. It was really fun 115 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: to see everyone again. It was like our first event 116 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: for that school where we're with all the other parents 117 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: and saying hi to people that we haven't seen in 118 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: so long because everyone's not been doing stuff. I mean 119 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: even just like fundraisers for the school or like Parents' 120 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: night or whatever. All of that's been virtual, and so 121 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: this was really the first time we're all seeing each 122 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: other in really such a long time. But yeah, three graduates, 123 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: everything's hitting at once. I guess, Yeah, Ruth is the 124 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: only school age child you had who didn't have a 125 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: big milestone year. Yeah, she didn't, so although interestingly she 126 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: probably will. We'll see how'll do it next year. Because 127 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: our district is changing how the schools are going, so 128 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: they're building a new middle school to relieve some crowding. 129 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: So then there will be three middle schools, but they 130 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: will all go from fifth to eighth grade instead of 131 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: sixth to eighth grade, So the elementary schools will then 132 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: be k to fours. That means that next year will 133 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: in fact be roots last year at her elementary school. 134 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: Her fourth grade will be the equivalent of what fifth 135 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: grade was. But there are still fifth graders there this year, 136 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean next year, so I don't know they'll have 137 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: two graduating classes or something. I wonder if this is 138 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: a nationwide trend. That's fascinating because I actually think fifth 139 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: grader's going to middle school is kind of a big deal. 140 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: Back in the seventies and eighties, junior high was I 141 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: think seventh, eighth, and ninth, and now it's more sixth, seventh, eighth, 142 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: and maybe we're moving more towards fifth to eighth that's 143 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: maybe a nod to the earlier puberty we're seeing. Maybe 144 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: I could be. I don't know, I'm not sure really 145 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: the thought process behind it. They're also not doing it 146 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: how people normally open schools. They're just completely filling it. 147 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: So Sam will go to middle school for one year 148 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: next year at one school, and then he will be 149 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: switched to the new school for seventh grade. So go 150 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: figure with a little bit of a shift in classmates, 151 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: right going to someone. I mean, they claimed they were 152 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: going to do community building exercises for the kids who 153 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: are moving from that, you know, who are in the 154 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: catchment area that go to the new new middle school. 155 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: I don't know anyway, all our district's machinations we didn't 156 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: need to go off on. That's the fun part about 157 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,599 Speaker 1: this podcast. We digress on everything. At least that's a 158 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: nicer digression than the whole bill Cosby one that I 159 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: went through five minutes earlier. Well, I actually forgot to 160 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: mention the other graduation that we did go through that 161 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: was not one of my household so I don't know 162 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: if this was a digression, but our residents graduated, so 163 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: we had our first class, as you guys know, I'm 164 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 1: the director of a residency program, and pediatrics residency is 165 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: three years long, and our program is brand new, so 166 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: this was a very very big deal. These are the 167 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: residents that were our very inaugural class that began in 168 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and now we're sending them on their merry 169 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: way off to fellowship or their first job. And it 170 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: was actually really really emotional. I cind at the ceremony. 171 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: I also had a complete and utter childcare emergency where 172 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: our nanny was completely too sick to come to work. 173 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: I didn't know that was going to happen until, you know, 174 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: not her fault, but like six in the morning that day, 175 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: I had one moderately sick child to the point where 176 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't get anyone from any backup care agency to 177 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: agree to come to our house, even though I did try, 178 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: And so I brought them to graduation and my daughter 179 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: was not that sick by this point, and they were 180 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: all in masks and in the corner of an extremely 181 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: large room, so I don't think we exposed anyone to anything, 182 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: but it was very very stressful because as the director, 183 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: I was basically leading the ceremonies and speaking up on stage, 184 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: and I kept like taking little furtive glances over to 185 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: the far far corner where they were all sitting with 186 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: their devices. Of course, they weren't pay any atten to 187 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: the actual ceremony or the fact that their mom was 188 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: like crying on stage. But you know, the iPad is 189 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: that exciting. So cheers to iPads. I mean they're really great, 190 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: and that's good that they were. No crises happened during it, 191 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it was basically a miracle. So I 192 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: survived the day, but it was a big deal. And 193 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: now we're obviously welcoming our new class. By the time 194 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: this airs, they'll be in their first week of training, 195 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: so we can all wish them well. It's very exciting 196 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: and bittersweet to see them get older and move on. Yeah, no, 197 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: it is. I mean, because you've really built this residency program. Yeah, 198 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't take full credit. I wasn't even 199 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: the director when it started, but I have been their 200 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: director for the last two years of their training and 201 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: associate director before that, so I've been involved in it 202 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: even before they were here, when we were just trying 203 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: to get accreditation and filling out mountains and mountains of 204 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: paperwork and trying to impress representatives from the governing Board 205 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: of Residencies. And it's been an adventure, but yes, this 206 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: makes it all the more real and rewarding. Yeah. Well, 207 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about a little advice we 208 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: would give to our younger graduate selves. But why don't 209 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: we go ahead and take our ad break right before 210 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: we get into that, so we we'll be right back. Well, 211 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: we are back talking about graduations and advice we would 212 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: give our younger graduating selves. Sarah, you should go first, 213 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: because I thought yours were all so humorously similar Sarah's 214 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: like apparently learning the same lessons each time. Yes, So 215 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: I decided to organize this into things I wish my 216 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: graduating self knew, or lessons that I wish she had 217 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: gotten at various graduations in my life, and as Laura mentioned, 218 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: I've had several. So I graduated high school, graduated college, 219 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: graduated medical school. I did do everyone a favor, and 220 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: I don't think I did a separate one for residency 221 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: and fellowship. I just did fellowship, so that gives us four. 222 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: So that's plenty, but there were five, but there were five, 223 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: I mean residency, graduation is it's yes, but it counts 224 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: so yeah, there were five. There were actually six. I 225 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: was invited to the two thousand and six Duke graduation 226 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: because I had gotten a master's in pharmacology, but I 227 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: didn't go because it didn't feel that exciting, because it 228 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: was really because I quit the pH d. All right, anyway, 229 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: to my high school graduate self at age eighteen, Lesson 230 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: one or thing one that I would like you to know, 231 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: you will have less trouble in college finding people to date. 232 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: So be selective. Were you not selective? Perhaps not at 233 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: the beginning. Lesson number two, You should never really have 234 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: more than two drinks. Seriously, maybe three if it's really 235 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: cold and you're out for a long time. Lesson number three, 236 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: you should start a budget. All right. If I could 237 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: have known those three things, it would have been useful, 238 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: all right, to my twenty two year old self. Number one, 239 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: not sticking to your original career plans does not make 240 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: you a failure. Most people do not pick one job 241 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: at twenty one and then stick to it forever. And 242 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: the reason I included this is because I did choose to, 243 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: as I just mentioned, kind of pivot a little bit. 244 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: I had started as an MDPHD. I had theoretically an 245 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: interest in research. I had done some research in undergrad. 246 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: You know, looking back, I'm not sure I loved it then, 247 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: but I had sort of convinced myself that I liked 248 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: it and it seemed like a good path, so I 249 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: was on it, and I really tortured myself and my 250 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 1: decision to leave that behind. But in retrospect, it seemed 251 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: like the obvious, obvious choice, and obviously now in my 252 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: current vantage point, everything worked out and I couldn't have 253 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: known that, but I guess part of me the reason 254 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: I hesitated was it felt like a failure to leave 255 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: my initial selection behind. But that's not a failure for anyone. 256 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: And so no matter what your age is, if you 257 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: are deciding that you'd like to pivot then and you 258 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: have something reasonable to pivot too, then there's absolutely no 259 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: failure in that, because why would you want to stay 260 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: in a career that you that doesn't quite fit. Did 261 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: you go straight from college to graduate school? Then? Yeah, 262 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: so you I went into an mdphd program, so I 263 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: only applied to I don't think I applied any straight. 264 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: You usually chose mdphd or MD mdphd programs are smaller, 265 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: a little harder to get into. I think in most cases, 266 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: and they're paid for, and I'm sure that was a 267 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: tiny part of my motivation, although it wasn't more. It 268 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: wasn't like, oh, it's freeze, I'll do it. It was like, oh, 269 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: how convenient. I love this, and it's a way to 270 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: have my education paid for. This is great. So that's 271 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: kind of how what I thought going in. So that's 272 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: the route that I chose, and then I got accepted. 273 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: But once I had actually begun down the research path 274 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: and sort of faced realities of the age I would 275 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: be it graduation as well as what my eventual goals were, 276 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: it no longer made sense. And so I actually got 277 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: out at a great time. But I just wish i'd 278 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: been a little kinder to myself about that process. All right, 279 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: less than two my twenty two year old self. And 280 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: by the way, it was two thousand and two always 281 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: easy to do that math sin summer nineteen eighty. Baby, 282 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: you should start a blog immediately and a podcast. I 283 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: don't think we had podcasts back then, did we. Well, 284 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: there was like this American life and stuff, but how 285 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: would anyone have listened to it? I mean, that's well, 286 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: you're right in two thousand and two, there wasn't really 287 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: a way. I think by the mid aughts you could 288 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: download such things to your iPod, because I did. While 289 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: I was running all those long runs, I would listen 290 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: to like Ira Glass, and there weren't very many podcasts 291 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: to choose from, but that was a pretty good one, 292 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: all right. Lesson three, you should start a budget for real. 293 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, I'll go back for a second. 294 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: I did start a blog in two thousand and four, 295 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: which is pretty early. I can thank Michelle O of 296 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: the Underwear Drawer at the time, who is now like 297 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: a state senator of Georgia, who knew and my best 298 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: friend from one of my best friends from college, Vicky, 299 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: who had her own blog that I sort of modeled 300 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: mine after. So thanks to those wonderful influences, the blog 301 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: did happen on the early side of blogs, which means 302 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: our twentieth anniversary will come up in just a couple 303 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: of years. That'll be exciting. Wow. All right, to my 304 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: medical school graduate self at age twenty seven, Lesson one, 305 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: some months of residency will be really hard, some will 306 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: be easier. Try to plan lots of things you truly 307 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: enjoy on those easier months. I don't know. I mean, 308 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: I guess there was some element of like that sounds great, 309 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: but I have no money, and also I'm tired and 310 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: I need to recover, so you know, maybe my twenty 311 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: seven year old self knew better. But then I also 312 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: feel like it was always easier to do less or 313 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: table those things for when I was finished. And I 314 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: think that there are some less crazy times in residency 315 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: and you can fit a lot of fun, lower key 316 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: things in that can still be fun less. And number two, 317 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: running all those miles is great, but you should strength train. 318 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: I had a lot of injuries back then, so this 319 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: is not like, you know, based on vanity or fitness really, 320 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: but I kept getting hurt and I think that if 321 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: I had balanced my running better with other things which 322 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: people told me to do, but I kind of ignored it, 323 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: it would have been better. And then finally, less than 324 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: three twenty seven year old self, you should really start 325 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: a budget and also start putting stuff into your right 326 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: four one k you if it's a tiny bit, you 327 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: won't miss it now. Thankfully, I was married at the time, 328 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: and somehow, like Josh was putting money in from his 329 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: residency salary. I don't know. What my rationalization was like, oh, 330 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: you're going to do it, but I won't. But I didn't, 331 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: and that was sad because that would have grown a loup. 332 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: I know, well maybe, I mean there was a big crash, right, well, 333 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: I should have started starting. You should have started like 334 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine actually, and then it would 335 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: have been up from there, so you know, that would 336 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: have been amazing. Okay, finally, my last graduation. I'm sorry 337 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: this part is very long. We'll let Laura talk in 338 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: just a minute. Number One, do not and by the way, 339 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: this is at age thirty three, about to embark on 340 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: my first job. Number one, do not buy a house, 341 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: rent first, and if you do buy, buy far less 342 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: house than you can technically afford. We learned the hard 343 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: way on that one too. Look for ways of making 344 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: your career fit the lifestyle you want. And I did 345 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: do that, but I'm very glad I did, and I 346 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: feel like I could have given myself permission to do that. 347 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: I feel like I fell into it to some extent. 348 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: Number Three, invest in nice work clothes and comfortable shoes. 349 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: They will last and you deserve it. I didn't do 350 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: that until I mean, part of it was all those 351 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: babies I had. That makes the clothes part really a 352 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: little more challenging. But I feel like I didn't really 353 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: do it until the pandemic, and I could have done 354 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: that sooner and finally start a budget, which we finally 355 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: did about two years into working life. And while you're 356 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: at it, max out all retirement vehicles. You were surviving 357 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: on a fraction of current salaries, So you have zero excuse. See, 358 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: you finally started the budget, finally started the budget, and 359 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,959 Speaker 1: I don't think we were maxing out every vehicle until 360 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: like twenty nineteen maybe, so it took a while. Things 361 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: take the time. Learning takes time. Unfortunately, you don't really 362 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: get to have lessons from your former self. But if 363 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: any of this advice helps anyone else in any of 364 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: these dangers, then I am very happy for you. That's awesome. Yeah, 365 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: I did not have as many graduations, only only two. 366 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: I am under educated as these things go, and I 367 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: was probably way into budgeting, way too into budgeting. I 368 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: might say, I might want to go back and tell 369 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: my younger self to lighten up a bit on it, 370 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: because there will be times when you will spend comical 371 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 1: amounts of money on ceiling fans for your new house, 372 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: so you know, you can laugh about the coupon cutting 373 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: back then. But anyway, I kind of like the memories 374 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: of my ramen noodle recipes, and you know, I would 375 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: make ramen with frozen spinach like in a you know, 376 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: you cut off a hunk of frozen spinach from the 377 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: package and in a pot of boiling water with the 378 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: ramen noodles, and I could cut up celery. I liked 379 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: ramen with celery and spinach. And then if you only 380 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: put in a little bit of the packet of seasoning, 381 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: it's reasonably healthy. Right. It's just like noodles with veggies 382 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: and a little bit of the seasoning as opposed to 383 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: you know, the whole pack That to me sounds like 384 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: a recipe for like quashiorkor, which is like clinical protein 385 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: deficiency because there's literally no well maybe there's a tiny 386 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: bit of like gluten protein in the noodles. Well it 387 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: wasn't the only thing I was eating. Like you have 388 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: eggs for breakfast, you know, that was like there you go, 389 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: then you have eggs, crack an egg on top of that, 390 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: work an egg on top and then and then you'd 391 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: be good. But yeah, I wound up eating a fair 392 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,959 Speaker 1: amount of ramen, which I actually like. I mean, you know, 393 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: it's a it's a frugal living joke, but I liked it. 394 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this, I'm actually pretty grateful to 395 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: my early twenties self for some decisions. As I thought 396 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: back about my graduating self, I made a lot of 397 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: decisions at that time that like, I mean, in my 398 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: junior year of college, I studied abroad in Australia and 399 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: I did a lot of travel around the country, often 400 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: by myself, and doing that was just a great experience, 401 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: as was you know, traveling to Asia when I was 402 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: twenty three, saw a lot of things there. Budget travel 403 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: is really a way to get close to the places 404 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: you were seeing. And I'm really glad that my younger 405 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: self did some of that. I wish i'd done even 406 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: more or that, you know, I walked into my USA 407 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: Today internship after college and thought I should be writing 408 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: columns for them, and you know, did and I started 409 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: writing pretty regularly for them for about fifteen years, and 410 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: that opened a lot of doors for me professionally. But 411 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: I'm really glad that my twenty two year old new 412 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: graduate self thought, you know that why not why not 413 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: see if I can make that work or moving to 414 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: New York. Then when I was twenty three and the 415 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: internship ended, I mean, just because I wanted to live 416 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: in New York, so I did no job lined up, 417 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: had saved up money from freelancing over the course of 418 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: the year, and that financed the move to New York, 419 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: and that was that was great. It turned out to 420 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: be a wonderful place to live. I mean, obviously that's 421 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: where I met Michael, so that was a good idea 422 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: as well. So on that stuff, I'm like, you know, 423 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,479 Speaker 1: you were pretty awesome early twenty self. Thank you for 424 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: doing those things that have shaped my life now. But 425 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: of course all was not perfect. I would like to 426 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: tell my early twenty something self that she should stop 427 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: wearing that combination of leather boots and a leather jacket 428 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 1: because it looks ridiculous. Right, So do the jeans that 429 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: you have cut the inside seam of to make them 430 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: more bootcut style. Just go buy the pair of boot 431 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 1: cut jeans. I know you're cheap. I know you got 432 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: them at a thrift store, but you shouldn't do that. 433 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: You can get away with a lot when you're twenty 434 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: two but remember when people would like sew in like 435 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: one triangle of fabrics, right, I think I was. I 436 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: was like cheap and lazy. I didn't even get to 437 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: the part of sowing itt and I just like slice 438 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: the same, you know, join more choirs. I mean I 439 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: waited until my junior year of college to join our 440 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: glee cup, and then I when I moved to New York, 441 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: I joined one, but I wound up joining the three. 442 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: I was like, I really liked it. I should do more, 443 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: but I should have also taken voice lessons. I think 444 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: I had this idea that I was a good choral singer, 445 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: but you know, that was what it was. I would 446 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: never like my solo voice and I still don't really, 447 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: but it's probably because I haven't invested the time in it. 448 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: If you take more voiceless since you will be better 449 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: at it, same as anything. Same with running. You kind 450 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: of like it and you will like it a lot, 451 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: So keep trying it. Everyone's bad at it at the beginning. 452 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: That is not something unique to you. So if you 453 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: are sitting there twenty two year old Laura thinking why 454 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: can't I run? Why does it stink every single time 455 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: I try to run? Well, you know, start slow, take 456 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: some walk breaks, try it again. You know, if you 457 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: keep at it for more than like two weeks, you'll 458 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: be good at it. It just for whatever reason, she 459 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: could do all sorts of other things, but sticking with 460 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: the running project for more than two weeks was just 461 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: forget that. Here's some advice that I've really learned kind 462 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: of the hard way over the years. If you really 463 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: have to convince yourself to take on a project, don't 464 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: take it on like more will come to you. And 465 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: I've worked for myself for a great many years, and 466 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: so especially you know, at the beginning, you're always hustling 467 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: trying to get different projects, and so when stuff drops 468 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: into your lap, you're always like, oh great, let me 469 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 1: just take this. It's right here, here's somebody offering to 470 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: pay me for something. But when stuff comes to you, 471 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: it is probably not exactly what you would have sought out. Now, 472 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: it may be very close, in which case you're excited. 473 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: That's wonderful. That's great when that happens. But if you're 474 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: really having to convince yourself, like do all these mental gymnastics, 475 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: be like, oh well, really, if I think about it 476 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: this way, it's good or on this letter per hour. 477 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: It'll be fine. Don't do it, Just don't do it. 478 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: You have to be very careful with that because you 479 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: never get that time back. Start an email newsletter and 480 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: collect email addresses. I finally started doing this in twenty ten, 481 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: but I should have done this in like two thousand 482 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: and two. I mean, I was writing professionally then, and 483 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: there were people who were reading me, and I could 484 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: have if people wrote me, I could have written a 485 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: newsle for those people who had come into my life 486 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: is or you know, once I started a website, people 487 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: who came there, people who I interviewed for one hundred 488 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: and sixty eight hours or things like that. It would 489 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: have made launching my first books a lot easier if 490 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: I knew I could talk to my own warm audience, 491 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: as opposed to just thinking the universe would be there somehow. 492 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: You know, you learn a lot about publicity over the years, 493 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: but starting an email newsletter earlier would have been much better. 494 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: But I guess twenty two year old Laura I was 495 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: too busy with her leather jacket to figure that out. 496 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: So about the weak did you do the book title? Oh? Well, yeah, 497 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 1: I guess if you have to explain the title of 498 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: a book, you'll lose people. So just in general, which 499 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: book does that refer to? Grindhopping, which was the early 500 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: career book, So that was like a mid twenties kind 501 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: of thing that I wrote. There's a reason people have 502 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: not heard of it. I think that's the only one 503 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: I haven't read. So there you go. Do you ever 504 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: want to you can go, all right, Well, let's go 505 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: to our question for the week. Do you want to 506 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: read this one? Or sure? All right? And I think 507 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: this is a very apropro question because I think a 508 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: lot of people are going through a similar Yeah, so 509 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: we can we can sort of disguise it so it 510 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: will be the every woman question. Yes, all, I'm going 511 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: to keep the city in there. I think that's important. 512 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: All right, we'd love to hear an episode on best 513 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: practices and strategies for returning to the office now that 514 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: many companies are calling for their employees to return. I 515 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: work in New York City at a leadership position at 516 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: a major company and recently found out I will need 517 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: to be in office three to five days per week. 518 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: This fall, during the pandemic, we moved out of the city. 519 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: So I'm struggling with how to plan for both parents 520 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: to be out of the house twelve to thirteen hours 521 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: a day to allow for commuting. My husband has to 522 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: be in the office due to the nature of his 523 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: job and was for the entire pandemic, so he cannot 524 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: work from home. There seems to be limited flexibility at 525 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: my company, so I would need to prepare to have 526 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: childcare five days per week if business needs require it 527 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: close sixty hours per week. Any tips for making this work. 528 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: Feeling like a dual career household with commutes isn't really 529 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: a viable option, but I would hate to have a 530 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: major stepback in my career. There aren't many work options 531 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: for me in the suburbs, and I worry if I 532 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: leave New York City then my salary cut would be 533 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: substantial enough that I wouldn't be able to afford full 534 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: time childcare. I also don't want to be a weekend 535 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: parent and barely see my children now that have gotten 536 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: so many great memories while working from home. Any suggestions. 537 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: I realize a career is not linear, and perhaps in 538 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: a few years I may need to find something more 539 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: part time until my kids are older. There are two 540 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: and four I think many working mothers are facing similar situations, 541 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 1: so thought this could be a good topic to hear 542 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: more about. Great question. Yeah, I'm hearing this from a 543 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 1: lot of people right now that you know, pre pandemic, 544 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: they were in the office and had negotiated maybe occasionally 545 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: work from home. Now they've worked from home full time 546 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: for a year, and some places are really trying to 547 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: get people back in almost full time, and a lot 548 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: of people are just not interested in doing it. So 549 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: we had a few thoughts. I mean, one is you 550 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: could move back to the city. I mean, certainly some 551 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: people who moved out of cities thinking that location would 552 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: no longer matter. If it does turn out to matter, 553 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: then the same rules pre pandemic applied, Like having a 554 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: long commute is what often makes a big job unsustainable, 555 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: especially if you have two parents commuting. And what we 556 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: tend to see a lot of is that you know, 557 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: mom winds up taking you know, scaling back because something 558 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: happens in the middle of the day, kid needs to 559 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: be picked up at school, and nobody's anywhere close to 560 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: the school, and it's just harder to restart a career 561 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: once you've gotten on that off that track, you can 562 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: but it's hard. So we suggested, you know, you could 563 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: move back, you know, so both of you had a 564 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: short commute, both of you would be there, and that 565 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: might have some upsides to it. We also suggested really 566 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: trying to codify this three days in two days home, 567 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: that this is the max. It would be that you 568 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: absolutely can work from home at least two days per week. 569 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: Ideally that they would be flexible. You choose which ones 570 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: you want to do, so, you know, seeing if they 571 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: would would go for that, instead of really saying, okay, well, 572 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: maybe you can come back three days a week with 573 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: the understanding that we're pushing toward five. And then there's 574 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: always the option to find another job because a lot 575 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: of places are in flux right now, so it is 576 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: quite possible that you will find something more prestigious, better paying, 577 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: and more flexible, and you just don't know until you look. Yes, 578 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: agree with all of those. And one additional option is, 579 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned the three days, actually looking at 580 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: what your work duties are and even if the rule 581 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: across the board is three to five, who knows, maybe 582 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: there's somebody immediately above her who she could explain why 583 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: in her particular special case it would be better for 584 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: her to be two days, and maybe she it could 585 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: be a quiet exception that is able to do things 586 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: a little bit differently. And as for the moving back, 587 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: they said that they had been planning on moving out anyway, 588 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: so that didn't really apply to them. But I will 589 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: say all the news headlines seem to be saying that 590 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: the previously extremely pricey areas of like Manhattan and San 591 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: Francisco are actually the areas who have had the largest 592 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: recent drops in average rent. I'm sure it's still extremely expensive, 593 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: but like moving back wouldn't be the craziest thing, especially 594 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: if you were lucky and you've had time to move 595 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,719 Speaker 1: out right and your house is appreciated a whole bunch. 596 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: So a lot of housing markets are still very hot 597 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: right now, so it could actually be a strategic financial decision. 598 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: Although caveat, don't take any real estate advice for me. 599 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: As discussed from Sarah's PABs learnings, she may have not 600 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: wished to have bought the house that she bought. Yeah, 601 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: I have a slight fact checking thing I have to 602 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: say from what I said earlier, Apparently the original Cosby 603 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: trial was moved to the Pittsburgh area. I think and 604 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: then the retrials and sentencing hearings were in my area, 605 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: our local courthouse. So just to you were like, something 606 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: doesn't stud doesn't talk. But why was I worried about 607 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: getting jury duty or something for it? And then I 608 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: was like, okay, because there was something here. It wasn't 609 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: It wasn't just that it was made up out of 610 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: whole cloth in my head. It was in our courthouse 611 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: for part of it. So anyway, I love of the week, 612 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: Sarah Mine is so I love the smell of honeysuckle. 613 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: It's mostly gone now where we are. It was more 614 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: of an early June thing, but I would I would 615 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: walk around and sort of breathe in the smell. And 616 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,719 Speaker 1: I was attempting to buy various soaps that would smell 617 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: like honeysuckle, like the Missus Meyers stuff, and nothing really 618 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: got the scent right. And then I mentioned this on 619 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: my blog and one of my readers wrote in, I'm 620 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: finding it on my desk because I have everything on 621 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: my desk here. One of my readers wrote in that 622 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: the fresh brand Honeysuckle moisturizing hand cream smelled just like honeysuckle, 623 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: and in fact it does, so I will put that 624 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: out there if somebody wants to perch. It's just the 625 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: smell of honeysuckle and experience it beyond the first two 626 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: weeks of June. This moisturizing cream will do it. You know. 627 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: It's funny because like where we live, I feel like 628 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: we have such different like flora and fauna than you guys. 629 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: And for example, the cicadas that everybody's talking about, like 630 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: I've never seen one, at least not since childhood and 631 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: maybe the nineteen eighties invasion that we had back then. 632 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: But we also have the same honeysuckle timing. So when 633 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: you were mentioning it, I was going on runs and like, 634 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: oh my god, that is like a heady, like it 635 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: is a strong scent when you're running. It almost makes 636 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: me want to sneeze or something. But it is lovely 637 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: and I love fresh products, so that's awesome, all right. 638 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: My love of the week is I've been doing the 639 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: Peloton strength training. I know I've crossed over to the 640 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: dark side or something, but it's actually really great and 641 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: I would specifically recommend if anybody is a runner, the 642 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: strength workouts for runners, which are like a specific category 643 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: that you can search for are really really good. They're 644 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: not like too hard, they seem like just challenging enough, 645 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: and I can see why. The movements are kind of 646 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: designed to help strengthen the muscles that you use and running. 647 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: And I love this one instructor Bex Gentry. She's from 648 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: the UK. She just has this very kind, like, I 649 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: don't know, accepting kind of vibe to her, not pushing 650 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: you in a threatening kind of way like some previous 651 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: instructors I may have enjoyed on screen. But she's great. 652 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: So if you are looking to branch out in your 653 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: strength work, you can try that. All right, Well, we 654 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: got our Honeysuckle cream and our Peloton apps, so we 655 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: will be back. We've been talking this week about our 656 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: graduation advice. I'm not sure we could have given that 657 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: graduation advice for our earlier younger selves. Check out the 658 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: Peloton app and the Honeysuckle cream. Anyway. We will be 659 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: back next week with more on making work and life 660 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah 661 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoe 662 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: Box on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at 663 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: Laura vandercam dot com This has been the best of 664 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more 665 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: on making work and life work together.