1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie oh in Samantha, and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: I never told your protection if I heard ideas how 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: stuff first? Did they get you? You kind of like 4 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: you're going to start laughing A little bit? Did, but 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: I held it to be and then you called it 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: because it's fun. Always trying to mess up on my No. 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: I love a good in sponts in spontaneous, impromptu, spontaneous, 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: that's what I was trying to do. I liked it. 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: You can find in spontaneous laughter. Yes, yes, always good 10 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 1: to fix up the intros, you know. Yeah, I appreciate 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: it for our Classic Today listeners. As you probably know, 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: we recently did an episode on sleeping or the difficulty 13 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: the lack thereof. Yes, and it's a proposed for me 14 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: because last night I think I got one or two 15 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: hours what I did, I only got five hours last night, 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: surpresently because I stayed up doing word searches. I got 17 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: a new book. I got really excited and just started 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: kept going and typically it helps me go to sleep. 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: Now I got rebbed up. Oh man, I gotta I 20 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: gotta hang out with you. I don't bother you, but 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: I gotta see this word search thing go down. I 22 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: feel really old when I talked about it, because I 23 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 1: mentioned it with the Daily Slight guys, then they were 24 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: like what. I just think it's a very unique hobby. 25 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: I like it. I like it, and I want we'll 26 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: hang out and maybe so you'll do crafting of your 27 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: costumes and I'll do word searches as we have some 28 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: kind of Marvel or Harry Potter movie going on, or 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about heathers again. Okay, if we want heathers, 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: you have to pay attention. You're making this into I'm 31 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: trying to make it Marvel. You're trying to do heathers. 32 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: We're gonna have a weird crossover thing, could you imagine. 33 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: I find it very funny that word searches does not 34 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: like help your sleep. It makes sure. Typically I usually 35 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: do it to calm down and just get my mind 36 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: off things, so I need I'm one of those that 37 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: if I'm sitting listening through a lecture or something, I 38 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: need to be doodling. Um. I hear and process things 39 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: that way because I need to. And it's of course 40 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: nonsensical patterns or something that I'm just or outlining things. 41 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: But it's also one of those that I hear things 42 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: and associate things together. I don't know why, but the 43 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: words such asn't one of those as well, that I 44 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: could just sit and kind of blank out but pay 45 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: attention at the same time. I don't know what I 46 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: get that. That's the kind of like hiking. Yeah, because 47 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: I can like move and blank. Oh see, I have 48 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: to pay attention or I die, literally like I fall. 49 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: If we've talked about the rolling down the hill things, 50 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: I've twisted my ankle so many times, so many times. Sucks. 51 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: It's bad, and it becomes a bigger problem when you 52 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: are sleep deprived. Oh yeah, that's what we're talking about. 53 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: Get back to that. Yes, um. As we mentioned inside, 54 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: we recently did insomnia, which is kind of what both 55 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: of us are alluding to suffering from. Right, um, is 56 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: a big problem among women. It's a bigger problem among 57 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: women than men. And our past, our predecessors, Kristin, Caroline, 58 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: the legends, the legends, we going there. Yeah, and that's 59 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: unfortunate for me because Caroline is one of my closest 60 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: friends and I'm like, damn it, that shadow is so 61 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: huge it just lingers everywhere. Well, we keep bringing back 62 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: the classics, so it's true, but it's worth it. It is. 63 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: It is that absolutely is. They did an entire episode 64 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 1: devoted to the female insomniac, so we thought we would 65 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: share it with you today. Enjoy. Welcome to stuff Mom 66 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: Never told you. From how stupp works dot com. Salman, 67 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristin, and 68 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: today I really wanted to bring our listeners and authentic 69 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: and genuine experience. Kristen, I am coming into this topic 70 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: of insomnia completely sleep deprived. Oh no, I I do 71 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: suffer abouts of crazy insomnia. Nothing like chronic, nothing long term, 72 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: nothing health issue related. It's more anxiety. I tend to 73 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: suffer from anxiety on and off, and it causes these 74 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: spirals of sleeplessness because whatever makes me anxious, whether it's 75 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: work or personal stuff, I suddenly lose the ability to sleep. 76 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: And then the more tired I get, the more panicked 77 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: I get that next night about sleeping, and a vicious 78 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: cycle of insomnia is created. Well, Caroline, I you're really 79 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: a method podcaster. Do what I do what I can. 80 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: It's immersing yourself in the topic, and I'm sure that 81 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: there are so many listeners who can relate to that 82 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: very cycle of insomnia the you experience. Well, I would 83 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: assume there are a lot of listeners out there who 84 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: could relate to it, because insomnia is something that I 85 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: feel like a lot of people. It's a health issue 86 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: that a lot of people talk about, a lot of 87 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: people experience. Certainly here in the U S a lot 88 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: of people do. And there's a lot of money that 89 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: people pour into curing there insomnia. Yeah, just to get 90 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: a sense of how bad of a time we have sleeping, 91 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: specifically in the US, if you look at what the 92 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: so called sleep economy was worth in two thousand seven, 93 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: as reported on in the New York Times, we spend 94 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars a year on sleep aids of different sources, 95 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: and sleep deprivation was also estimated to cost US businesses 96 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: one hundred fifty billion dollars annually in lost productivity. I 97 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: believe it like when you come to work sleep and 98 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: I don't mean you, like you Kristen Conger, Like when 99 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: Kristen Conger comes to work sleep deprived, but when the 100 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: general you comes to work sleep deprived, and me specifically, 101 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: and and me, let's be honest, I mean it is 102 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: so easy for instance, I don't know to like find 103 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: yourself staring out the window and realize you've just been 104 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: sitting there for ten minutes not doing anything, Yeah, because 105 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: your brain is just shutting down. Um. And the thing is, 106 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: they're actually eighty eight known sleep disorders and insomnia. Even 107 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: though we're probably all familiar with what it is, in general, 108 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: it's one of the least understood scientifically speaking, Like doctors 109 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: still aren't entirely sure what causes insomnia. We know what 110 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: it does. Yeah, Well, I mean when you when you 111 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: look at the causes and effects of insomnia and the 112 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: fact that they are underlying health conditions, but it's sort 113 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: of it gets into a chicken and the egg thing like, Okay, well, 114 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: insomnia can cause things like depression and anxiety, but it's 115 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: also caused by depression and anxiety, and it leads to 116 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: some some awful things during your day that you have 117 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: to deal with. Yeah. And the big reason why we're 118 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: talking about insomnia on the podcast is because it overwhelmingly 119 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: affects more women than men. So first, why don't we 120 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: just talk about insomnia in general, which is a sleep 121 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: disorder characterized by difficulty falling and or staying asleep. Yeah, 122 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: And some other symptoms include just being sleepy during the day, 123 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: feeling tired when you wake up, that feeling like you're 124 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: never refreshed, irritability, problems with concentration and memory tension, headaches, 125 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: and of course mine, which is like ongoing worries about sleep, 126 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: like will I will I ever be able to sleep again? Well, 127 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: would you characterize here insomnia then as the acute insomnia 128 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: or chronic insomnia? Well, I would say that about that 129 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: I had a couple of months ago, I would say 130 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: that was definitely acute because it's short term and versus 131 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: chronic which is at least three nights a week for 132 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: a month or longer. Um, it was awful, and it 133 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: was constant, and then it was and then it was 134 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: just gone. It fixed itself over a Memorial Day weekend, 135 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: thank goodness. And that insomnia that I was suffering from, 136 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: that acute insomnia, I'm pretty sure it was primary insomnia 137 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: versus secondaries. So primaries like just regular run of the 138 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: mill can't sleep because you're feeling crazy, versus secondary which 139 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: is actually sleep problems caused by a health condition. So 140 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: it's like if insomnia comes into your bedroom just on 141 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: its own like, hey, it's just if it's just man, 142 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: it is a kool Aid man of insomnia of sleep disorders, 143 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: then that's primary. But if it's say, you know, you know, 144 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: say depression walks into your bedroom, is like, hey, also 145 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: I brought along, Uh, it's really cool friend of mine insomnia, Yeah, 146 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: have fun with both of us, then it's secondary. Oh man, 147 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: what a great medical doctor. I wouldn't make well In 148 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: speaking of secondary insomnia, depression, as I just mentioned, is 149 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: often linked to it also things like anxiety and stress, 150 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: And according to a recent study that came out from 151 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: the American Academy of Sleep Medicine, it's not just the 152 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: stress itself, it's also how we react to stress, which 153 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: can exacerbate insomnia. Yeah, if you're not dealing with your stress, 154 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: and I'm sure a lot of people out there familiar 155 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: with us, I'm certainly familiar with us. If you're not 156 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: dealing with your stress and you're using poor coping mechanisms 157 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: to try to work around it, like turning to alcohol 158 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: instead of stress reduction techniques, We're all guilty of a 159 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: glass of peno grigia now and again, and that can 160 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: actually contribute to your stress induced insomnia. And there are 161 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: also a number of medical conditions such as issues with 162 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: chronic pain, breathing difficulties, or needing to urinate frequently that 163 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: can provoke insomnia because you know you're having to you know, 164 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: it's waking you up constantly during the night. Yeah. And 165 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: then of course there are things like poor sleep habits, 166 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,239 Speaker 1: medications and things like caffeine, which is an obvious one, nicotine, 167 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: and also alcohol. And you know, I think that this 168 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: is common knowledge, but it's worth repeating that a lot 169 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: of people do kind of turn to alcohol to wind 170 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: down at the end of the day. But anyone who 171 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: has ever gone to bed after having a little too 172 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: much to drink might be familiar with the phenomenon of 173 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: waking up suddenly and being like, oh, well, the alcohol 174 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: were off, and now I'm not sleeping well at all. Yeah. 175 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: Or you might sleep through the night, but it's not 176 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: RESTful sleep, it's just drunk sleep. And then which is 177 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: not good, I guess. But that's something completely different from insomnia, 178 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: but it can contribute well. It can also contribute in 179 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: relation to alcohol. Speaking of alcohol, is your good old 180 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: handy dandy period. It's so handy and dandy, both so 181 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: during your period, your progesterone. Your hormone progesterone is highest 182 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: around ovulation and during your luteal or post ovulation phase, 183 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: and this hormonal cocktail can actually exacerbate the effects of alcohol. 184 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: But we have so much more period stuff to talk 185 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: about later. Yeah, because spoiler alert. When it comes to 186 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: women and our issues with insomnia, menstruation often is the 187 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: culprit hormones. I just picture like a giant crowd of 188 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: hormones all waving like penance. They're like at a football game, 189 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: like I'm not gonna let you sleep. So, now that 190 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: we've established all the myriad ways that we can be 191 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: robbed of our sleep, the next question is, well, what 192 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 1: does insomnia do to you? And it's no big surprise 193 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: that it's a host of not so fun things like 194 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: lower job or school performance, slow reaction times while driving, 195 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: higher risks of accidents, probably due to that slower reaction 196 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: time while driving. It might also, in a bit of 197 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: a cycle, kickoff issues like depression or anxiety, which then 198 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: might contribute to more insomnia. Yeah, it is. It's all. 199 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: Insomnia is part of just a terrible cycle of awful things. 200 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: Because I mean, the more you get it the worst 201 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: things get things like high blood pressure. It aggravates weighting 202 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: and obesity, heart disease, all this terrible stuff. But at work, 203 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: you know, Kristen mentioned it contributes to lower job in 204 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: school performance, as one would expect if you're like totally 205 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: tired and not firing at all. Cylinders. There was a 206 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: study in two thousand six from the Journal of Management, 207 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: very straightforward name of a journal that talked about the 208 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: effects of insomnia on people at work. And yes, you know, 209 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: as you would imagine, it's associated with increased feelings of 210 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: hostility and fatigue and decreased feelings of joviality and attentiveness. 211 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: But that that is actually worse. These effects are actually 212 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: worse for women. Yeah, that finding in the study that 213 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: women's attitudes at work were affected more by insomnia is 214 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: stood out because there are also some studies that say 215 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: that women actually handle sleep deprivation better than men, at 216 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: least based on our performance on like computer related tasks 217 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: after not getting enough sleep. But I guess that's a 218 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: little bit different because that's looking at can you punch 219 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: keys on a keyboard versus can you talk to your 220 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: manager in the break room and not and not start 221 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: crying and yelling yes right well now, And that that 222 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: study too that you just mentioned also was showing that 223 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: like women seem to suffer more from insomnia and also 224 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: believe that they're suffering from more from insomnia, but that 225 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: they after like two good solid nights of sleep, recover 226 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: better than men do. Oh and on top of that too, 227 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: women who are performing lots of housework, which is often 228 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: the case because women perform a majority of the housework, 229 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: it slows down that recovery period. If you're doing all 230 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: this housework, then you have less time to rest and 231 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: hopefully recover from that lost sleep. And this issue of 232 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: insomnia among women really shouldn't be ignored, and this is 233 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: um something that more and more medical research is starting 234 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: to highlight because insomnia might be signaling other kinds of 235 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: medical or psychiatric problems in lady sleepers. Right yeah, because 236 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: women are about twice as likely as men to suffer 237 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: from major depression during their lives and it's nearly always 238 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: accompanied by difficulties sleeping. And also another big health issue 239 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: is obstructive sleep apnea. This is something that my mother 240 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: struggles with. She snores, has sleep apnea, and it really 241 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: messes up your sleep because you basically wake up gasping 242 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: for air. Um. But obstructive sleep apnea is a major 243 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: cause of insomnia, as you might imagine, and it's a 244 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: major contributor to heart disease. And before menopause, women are 245 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: about half as likely to have sleep apnea as men are, 246 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: But once they get past menopause they catch up to 247 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: men in those lucky ladies. Yeah, and after menopause too, 248 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: as we'll talk about more, the rates of insomnia among 249 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: women escalate as well. Right, Well, what's dangerous about this 250 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: whole sleep apnea depression insomnia link is that because doctors 251 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: are kind of programmed to use not the best term, 252 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: but kind of programmed to think that it happens more 253 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: frequently in men than in women, they might overlook the 254 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: signs of sleep appnian women and so, oh, you're just depressed, 255 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: you're just tired, But really, she has possibly a serious 256 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: health issue going on. I'm programmed to say this. I'm 257 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: a doctor, robot Dr Kristen, Yes, Chris and robot um. Well, 258 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: now that we've talked about a lot of sort of 259 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: external factors that interact with insomnia and promote cycles of insomnia, 260 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: in women. Let's really focus in now on sleep and 261 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: how that interacts with gender, because there are a lot 262 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: of different gendered patterns. It turns out of how we rest, 263 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: and we'll talk more about that when we get right 264 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: back from a quick break. So to first kick off 265 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: this closer look at gender and sleep, I just want 266 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: to toss out this historical tidbit from Insomnia, a Cultural 267 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: History by Elena's Summers Bremner, who talks about how in 268 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century there was at least one doctor who 269 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: claimed that women need more sleep because we're prone to 270 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: nervous excitability, while another doctor in the nineteenth century thought 271 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: of insomnia as a morbid deficiency of the brain, which 272 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: was why women need more sleep. There has for a 273 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,239 Speaker 1: long time been a lot of focus on women and sleeping, 274 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: but uh, you know, just not for such fantastic reasons. 275 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: In the past. There there was also this guy named 276 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 1: s Weir Mitchell Um who in the late nineteenth century 277 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: developed what he called this rest cure for women's hysteria, 278 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: And essentially he would lock up women in a room 279 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: and just force them to do like absolutely nothing whatsoever 280 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: to try to just I guess, break them down and 281 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: cause them to be less hysterical. Yeah, look, you're expressing 282 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: your opinion way too much. We need you to go 283 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: in this room and just rest. Yeah, I know, and 284 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: rest care sounds so nice. I would love to take 285 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: a rest here at the beach. But oh wait, no, no, no, 286 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: not that kind of a rest cure because you might 287 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: still be talking and expressing opinions at the beach. We 288 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: can't have that happening. Yeah yeah, but yeah, so let's 289 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: look at let's look at the gendered breakdown of sleep. 290 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: Who sleeps more, who needs it more? Do women just 291 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: complain or do we actually have something to complain about. 292 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: Turns out that women spend fifteen more minutes in bed 293 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: than men do, but we sleep eleven minutes less. Yeah. Uh. 294 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: And when it comes to napping, guys, at least, according 295 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: to research from the Pew Center, you take more naps. 296 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: Thirty eight percent of men reported napping versus of women, 297 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: So not a major difference there. But when it comes 298 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: to who needs more sleep, doctors say women be needing 299 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: some sleep because of our hysterical uterus is no caroline, No, 300 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: it's actually at least agreeing to professor Jim Horne, who's 301 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: director of the Sleep Research Center at Lowborough University in England. 302 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: It has to do with our tendency to multitask. Yeah, 303 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: women do multitask more than men do. That's on any 304 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: blog you'll find out there that'll tell you that. But 305 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: apparently women need twenty minutes extra deep sleep in order 306 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: to rest our core text. The cortex during the night 307 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: needs you to sleep so that it can disengage from 308 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: all of your crazy senses and go into recovery mode. 309 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: And the more you use your brain during the day, 310 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: the more your cortex needs sleep. Although I wonder, and 311 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: this is a bit of a side note if perhaps 312 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: another solution is to multitask less, because research also finds 313 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: that multitasking is not exactly better tasking, right, Yeah, exactly. 314 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: I know. Well, it's hard to resist multitasking though sometimes Caroline, Well, sure, 315 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: unless like, and I'm good at it to an extent. 316 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: I'm good at multitasking to an extent, But then my 317 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: like undiagnosed adult a d D kicks in and I'll 318 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: just I'll start something over here, and then I'll move 319 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: over here and do something else, and then by then 320 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: my cortex is just like we don't even know what's 321 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: going on? Go to sleep? And then he just just 322 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: face plant on your cubicle. Yes, if you ever walked 323 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: by me and I'm just like face down the cubicle 324 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: with the space bargain owing forever, just leave me, well, 325 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: I certainly wouldn't want to wake you up, Caroline, because 326 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: according to research out of Duke University, women are grumpier 327 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: when it comes to losing sleep. They actually used the 328 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: words hostile and angry specifically in the morning, and anecdotally, 329 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: I've gotten better at being a morning person, but it 330 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: took years of training. I know that in high school 331 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: when my mother would wake me up, they would there 332 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: would be like an hour long window before I was 333 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: even approachable. Yeah, no, I I totally get it. I 334 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: am not a nice person when I'm like super tired 335 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: and I've just woken up, especially if I haven't slept well. 336 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: I have been known to throw the covers back and 337 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: yell I'm not sleeping, and you know, go storm ountain 338 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: try to sleep on the couch. Yeah, I'm not social 339 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: for the first bit of the morning, but I think 340 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: I'm not as not as hostile and angry as I 341 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: used to be. Um, but we might not just be 342 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: just old grumpy gusses for no good reason, because according 343 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: to these same Deuke University researchers, women actually suffer more 344 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: mentally and physically if we don't get enough sleep, which 345 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: then puts us at a higher risk for heart disease, depression, 346 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: and psychological disorders. And also podcasters referring to you as 347 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: a grumpy gus apparently but yeah, it's it's scary, and 348 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: and you're like, well, I mean, surely, like there's nothing 349 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: so bad about this. But in addition to all of 350 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: these things that insomnia puts us at risk for, we 351 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: as women end up with higher inflammation markers, and basically 352 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: this indicates to a doctor that you are developing health 353 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: problems and their linked to pain. So well established women 354 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: need more sleep. Even though we might be laying in 355 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: the bed more, we aren't necessarily getting it. What is 356 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: going on because statistically, women are fifty percent likelier to 357 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: suffer from insomnia, and according to a survey from the 358 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: National Sleep Foundation that came out in two thousand and seven, 359 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: single working women have it worse, which I was surprised 360 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: to see because I would have assumed it would have 361 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: been working moms. I would have thought so too, But 362 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: it turns out that single working women are probably we're 363 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: probably bringing it on ourselves because we're like staying out 364 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: late doing that thing. Yeah exactly, and we're saying about it. 365 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: We're just constantly throwing our hats up in the air, 366 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: like Mary Tyler Moore, just like going in overdrive. Um, 367 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: married working moms get about the same amount of not 368 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: enough sleep as single working women do. And you know, 369 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: stay at home moms, you guys don't have it much better. 370 00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: Three quarters of these women experience symptoms of insomnia. And 371 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: why is that? Because we all have a lovely cocktail 372 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: of hormones in our bodies that are really the primary 373 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: culprit of all of this insomnia. It seemed like all 374 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: of the studies that we read regarding gender differences in 375 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: sleep patterns and insomnia from adolescence through old age, it 376 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: is constantly menstruation, menopause, pregnancy, and hormones that are the 377 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 1: common thread. Yeah, that's right. Amy Wolfson, who's the author 378 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: of the Woman's Book of Sleep, a Complete Resource Guide, 379 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: said that more than seventy of women complain about sleep 380 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: problems during menstruation when hormone levels are at their lowest. 381 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: So imagine that stadium full of pen and waving hormones, 382 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: just like clearing out of the stadium, and suddenly you 383 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: can't sleep. Yeah. Um, if you're listening to this and 384 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: you're like, huh, you know what I seem to not 385 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: be able to sleep when I'm experiencing p MS, Well, 386 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: it's probably because pre menstrual insomnia and pre menstrual hypersomnia 387 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: are just two of the menstrual related sleep disorders that 388 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: are among those eight known sleep disorders. So there is 389 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: a very strong link between our menstrual cycles and how 390 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: well we sleep. Yeah. In fact, research even says that 391 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: menstruating women report bloating that is significant enough to disturb 392 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 1: their sleep at least two or three days during each 393 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: menstrual cycle. And I am interested in hearing from people 394 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: who may have experienced this because while I do certainly 395 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: bloat every month, I mean, that's no big deal. I've 396 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: never actually experienced it so badly that it's interfered with 397 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: my sleep. So what's happening on a hormonal level is 398 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: that during the luteal phase, which is after ovulation, our 399 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: levels of proges their own rises and actually chills out 400 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: our sleep. Patterns a little bit. Progesterone is more strongly 401 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: related with good sleep, So hooray progesterone. But then a 402 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 1: few days before your period starts, when both progesterone and 403 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: estrogen levels drop, you have a spike in insomnia. And 404 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: then during the follicular phase, which is menstruation to ovulation, 405 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: you have energy supplementing estrogen building up until ovulation, which 406 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: is also when you see levels in insomnia rise. So 407 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: we have like a brief window during our menstrual cycles. 408 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:45,719 Speaker 1: What is that right after ovulation when progesterone is like, hey, friends, 409 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: here are a few nights over risk. Progesterone comes along, 410 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: sprinkling fairy dust on your eyes, and then es estrogen 411 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: bust into the bedroom is like, oh yeah, well, so 412 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: so does birth control? I mean, do different types of 413 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: birth control then effect insomnia. We did not look into that, Caroline, 414 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: But I just want, I mean, I wonder it must 415 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: it must I feel like and this could be mental, 416 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: this could be a total coincidence. But when I switched 417 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: from the pill to an I U D, I feel 418 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: like I experience more intense insomnia. I'm on a hormonal 419 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: iu D, so I I don't know maybe, so maybe 420 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: someone out there can tell us. I would only imagine 421 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: that if you are on some kind of hormonal birth 422 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: control that it must influence your sleep because progesterone and 423 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: estrogen are so commonly linked to it. Yeah, well so, 424 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: But speaking of not being on birth control, during pregnancy, 425 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: especially in women's third trimester and after childbirth, women experience 426 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: these profound fluctuations in their steroid related hormones and those 427 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: hormones that are involved in the whole hypothalamic pituitary adrenal 428 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: grouping of hormones that produce significant physiological changes. Yeah, and 429 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: apparently during the third crimemester, not only are you having 430 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: some hormonal fluctuations that contribute to insomnia, but it's also 431 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: the fact that your belly is so large and you 432 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: have to go to the bathroom more often that will 433 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: again wake you up. Yea, So that sounds more like 434 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: like a secondary insomnia that it's caused by not a 435 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: not a health problem, but a body issue. A baby. 436 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: It's caused by a growing baby. Oh that's what it is, 437 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: all right. Well, so, once you've crested that hill and 438 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: you're coasting into menopause, of course your sleep is also 439 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: going to be disrupted then, because why wouldn't it be 440 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: because menopausal women experienced wonderful things like hot flashes and 441 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: night sweats. And this is during this time you get 442 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: things like a diminished production of estrogen and particularly pro 443 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: just aone that affects your sleep. Yeah, it in fact 444 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: does not get better when it comes to insomnia as 445 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: we age. Right, And like we mentioned earlier with the 446 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: sleep apnea stuff, menopause is when women really catch up 447 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: to men in terms of experiencing that really bad health 448 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: issue that doctor. You should definitely go to a doctor 449 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: and get checked out. But yeah, so you're experiencing night 450 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: sweats and hot flashes and you probably are developing sleep apnea. 451 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: And I mean, man, your body is just throwing you 452 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: for a loop. Thanks a lot, body, And well, speaking 453 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: of a time when your body kind of throws you 454 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: for a loop. If you're wondering when this gender gap 455 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: in insomnia really starts to widen, it is during puberty. 456 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: This is from study in pediatrics that came out in 457 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: two thousand and six looking at gender differences in insomnia 458 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: among adolescents, and it found that when girls started getting 459 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: their periods, they became two and a half times likelier 460 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: than boys to have insomnia. So yet again we have 461 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: hormones and specifically progesterin, estrogen, etcetera, being strongly related to 462 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: our sleep or lack thereof. Yeah, so leading up to puberty, 463 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: there's really no huge significant gap between boys and girls 464 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: in terms of having insomnia, but that onset of a 465 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: girl's period is associated with a two point seven fivefold 466 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: increased risk for insomnia. Now, one other gender gap that 467 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: also emerges during puberty that we've talked about before on 468 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: the podcast is how among girls rates of depression and 469 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: anxiety also increased. So one thing that these researchers looked 470 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: at was whether or not it was puberty related onset 471 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: of depression that might have been fostering cycles of insomnia, 472 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: and it and another study that we looked at examining 473 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: adult female insomniacs both concluded that it is not specifically 474 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: the depress shan and anxiety that are to blame for 475 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: these higher rates of insomnia. Again, it always goes back 476 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: to those hormonal factors. So all of us to say, 477 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: the research that we found states that it is not 478 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: depression and other kinds of psychiatric issues that are causing insomnia. 479 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: They're sort of they're interrelated, but they aren't codependent. Yeah, 480 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: one doesn't necessarily have to depend on the other one happen. Yeah, Well, 481 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: I mean, we were just talking about menopause. So if 482 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: we're if we're looking, if we're continuing to look at 483 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: age groups and insomnia. Uh. The American Journal of Geriatric 484 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: Psychiatry INN looked at about three thousand each of men 485 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: and women sixty five and older, and they performed a 486 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: meta analysis and found that elderly women were at the 487 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: highest risk of insomnia. So, like christ and said, it 488 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: just darnwell never gets better. They out that more than 489 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: sevent men and women reported at least one symptom of insomnia, 490 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: with difficulty maintaining sleep being the main one. So they 491 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: looked at things like difficulty falling asleep versus difficulty maintaining sleep, 492 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: and so they found that women were frequently reported two 493 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: or three insomnia symptoms, whereas men more often reported just one. 494 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: But some of the protective factors against insomnia that these 495 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: researchers highlighted for women in this study at least included 496 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: a Mediterranean diet so guzzle that olive oil, drink it up, 497 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: um also caffeine and alcohol. What, Yeah, I don't. Yeah. 498 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: I wondered about that because that is something that is 499 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: preached against in every other I mean, I guess, I 500 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: guess in moderation, but I don't. I don't know. I mean, 501 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe these women were really enjoying a 502 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: Mediterranean diet that included a lot of red wine. Well, 503 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: and you know what, when I'm post menopausal, I will 504 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: I my coffee and wine if I want it. I 505 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: earned it. But yeah. They also cited hormonal replacement therapy 506 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: as another protective factor, which they also noted was a 507 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: bit of a controversial suggestion because not everybody is a 508 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: fan of hormone replacement therapy. But it makes sense because 509 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: of yet again, those hormonal connections to insomnia. Because this 510 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: was the one thing that I didn't find in our 511 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: research was like, okay, well, scientists seem to know that 512 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: our menstrual cycles have a large influence on insomnia. So 513 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: is there any any kind of treatment for that, any 514 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: kind of way to Nope, I saw nothing. It was 515 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: basically just like, well, here here's the information. Uh take 516 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: a lunasta. I don't know. Um. There was also, though 517 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: there was another study looking at the intersection of gender 518 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 1: and economics when it comes to sleep, and there was 519 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: This was coming out of the Centers for Disease Control 520 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: and Prevention in two thousand twelve, and it found a 521 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: pretty strong correlation between income and quality of sleep. Yeah. 522 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: The study basically found that as family income increases, trouble 523 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: sleeping decreases. And that makes sense. I mean, they found 524 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: that more the more people who were below the poverty 525 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: line experienced more insomnia banded people who were away above it. 526 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: But at every family income level, women were still more 527 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: likely to have trouble sleeping. But we did glean one 528 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: geographical outlier when it comes to the gender gap in insomnia, 529 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: and this was coming from a meta analysis in the 530 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: journal Sleep in two thousand and six. Um. When the 531 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: in the premise for it was researchers being like, Okay, 532 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: all right, we hear all the time about how women are, 533 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, have a harder time with insomnia, But is 534 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: that really true? Is just just sort of a methodological trick? 535 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: Are women just more likely to seek treatment for it? 536 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: Is it because women are more depressed? Well, first of all, 537 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: they concluded that okay, actually yes, they looked at twenty 538 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: seven studies. Yes, women actually do have legitimately a worse 539 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: time with insomnia, except in Japan. Yeah, this is so interesting. 540 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: The study authors think that the lack of gender differences 541 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: in insomnia, the fact that it's pretty much even Stephen, 542 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: is based on the fact that there's less variation in 543 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: Japanese society's sociodemographic and psychological characteristics. But see, that's curious 544 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 1: to me because when it comes to at least gender 545 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 1: roles in Japan, from what I've read and also heard 546 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: from people living in Japan, um, it's less progressive. It's 547 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: more their generals are more traditional than they would be 548 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: in the West. Well, I think, I mean, in my brain, 549 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: not having like gone into this very deeply, that kind 550 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: of actually makes sense because if people are very set 551 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: in their roles and they're comfortable with their roles, and 552 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: nobody's trying to, like, you know, cause a revolution or anything, 553 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, like a feminist revolution or anything. Um, 554 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: maybe people are just sleeping better if if things are 555 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: very set in your society. And I'm, of course I'm 556 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: painting this all with a very broad Well, Carolyn, I 557 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 1: think we've figured it out down with feministinism is ruining 558 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: everyone's sleep. Please don't write me letters. You know, I 559 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: don't believe that I'm writing you a letter right now, Carolin, 560 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: I'm multitasking. God, your cortex is going to need so 561 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: much rest tonight. But I am curious then if there 562 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: are any listeners in Japan who can give us some insights, 563 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: please let us know, because this was even something that 564 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: the researchers couldn't explain in the study. They were like, 565 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: there's something about Japan, and they even broaden it to 566 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: just East Asia in general. So I wonder what it 567 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: is about sleep patterns there, because if you look at 568 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,760 Speaker 1: the history of sleep, like in the West, the way 569 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 1: that we sleep has changed since the Industrial Revolution, where 570 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: we actually used to not just sleep in closer quarters, 571 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: but we also slept in shifts. For instance, like Ben 572 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,439 Speaker 1: Franklin would get up and go on these like night 573 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: walks in the middle. You know. You know what Ben 574 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: Franklin would do. He would get up and take a 575 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: cold air bath, a cold air bath, sitting naked in 576 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: his armchair reading. I'm picturing it. I'm picturing it too. 577 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: I bet it was refreshing. Well, I don't have to 578 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: be awfully chili. Yeah, well, well we now need to 579 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,879 Speaker 1: talk about treatments for insomnia. Perhaps the cold air bath 580 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: will do you. Um, when it comes to acute insomnia, 581 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: those brief windows of sleepless nights, it might happen. Treatment 582 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: just might not be required. It will probably go away 583 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 1: on its own, Yeah, exactly. For the chronic insomniacs out there, however, 584 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: you might want to seek treatment, and that could include 585 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: treating underlying causes of insomnia. For instance, Um, a couple 586 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: of years ago, I was like not sleeping at all, 587 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: I was really stressed out, and my doctor prescribed me ambient, 588 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: when really I probably should have been going to a 589 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: therapist and dealing with my incredible levels of anxiety, because 590 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: once you treat that anxiety, that tends to chip away 591 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: at insomnia. Yeah. And speaking of therapy, they're all sorts 592 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: of behavioral therapies developed for helping sleep and curing insomnia, 593 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: as such as relaxation exercises, something called sleep restriction therapy, 594 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: which is on the more extreme end of these behavioral 595 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: therapies where if you say, can't ever fall asleep until 596 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: like four in the morning, then, according to sleep restriction 597 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: therapy P, you would make yourself stay awake, not get 598 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: in bed until four in the morning, and make yourself 599 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: sleep through the night. And so it would basically be 600 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 1: like training your brain to say, oh, well, I got 601 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: in bed and then I fell asleep. Yes, it was 602 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: four in the morning, and then you gradually like step 603 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: it back and back and back. I've done that, well, 604 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: not four in the morning, not that extreme, but I 605 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: found myself like I would get really sleepy kind of 606 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: early in the night, at like nine o'clock. Um, but 607 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: I knew that I was never going to fall asleep 608 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: and actually go to bed until around midnight. But it 609 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 1: it fostered so much anxiety, especially on like a Sunday night, 610 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: you know, when you know you have to go back 611 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: to work the next day or whatever. And so one 612 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: Sunday night, instead of getting into bed early like I 613 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: had wanted to do and I had tried to do, 614 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,240 Speaker 1: I just stayed on the couch and read until about 615 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: honestly about eleven eleven thirty and got in bed then 616 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: and it was hunky dory. So that was sort of 617 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: reverse sleep training, because you were wanting to go to 618 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: sleep too early rather than not being able to. Yeah, 619 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: like I was sleepy, and I wanted to get in bed, 620 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: but I knew that if I did, based on previous 621 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: nights of not sleeping, well, I knew that if I did, 622 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,919 Speaker 1: I would just lie there and sweat, just sweat the bed. 623 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 1: I should I sweat the bed um. But also, like 624 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: you know, we we've mentioned um sleep ap me a 625 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 1: lot in this podcast episode. You might want to look 626 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: into going to a sleep clinic and getting a c 627 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: PAP machine. I have a friend who got a c 628 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: PAT machine and he sleeps like a baby. Now, my 629 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: mother was prescribed a CPAP machine, but she refuses to 630 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: use it because she's too proud. What does a c 631 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: PAP machine look like? It's it's a big, old robot 632 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: looking thing. Like you don't want it. You don't want 633 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 1: to have sleep at me, and you don't want to 634 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: have to use a c PAP machine. But it can 635 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: be life changing for people who use it. It It 636 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: involves um putting like a mask over your mouth and nose, 637 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: and it's pumping air. Someone else can explain this way 638 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: better than I can, But it's it's uh not a 639 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: small machine. Well, something that is small that a lot 640 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,720 Speaker 1: of people do take in the bedroom is sleeping pills sleep. 641 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: The market for sleeping pills has I don't want to 642 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: say exploded because that's the sensational term, but it's kind 643 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: of explodahiyah. We're taking more sleeping pills than ever before. Yeah. 644 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: So if you look back, this is coming from the 645 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: New Yorker and article they did on sleeping pills back 646 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: in all the way back, but in nineteen seventy you 647 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: have del Maine, which was the first benzo diazepine explicitly 648 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: approved by the f d A as a sleeping pill. 649 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: Fast forward all the way to two thousand six and 650 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 1: prescriptions of sleeping pills hit forty nine million. Ambience Manufacturer 651 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: estimated that that pill in particular had been taken twelve 652 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: billion times worldwide. Now, the number of pizzas that have 653 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: been sleep eaten on ambience still unknown, And according to 654 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: data from the CDC as of two thousand thirteen, around 655 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,479 Speaker 1: four percent of Americans we're using prescriptions sleep aids and 656 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 1: are used more commonly surprise among women and older adults. 657 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: But the trouble with these sleeping pills is that they 658 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: might not actually be improving the quality of sleep that 659 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: you get. There was one study that was cited in 660 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: The New York Times talking about how and I don't 661 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: have the exact figures in front of me, but it 662 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: was something along the lines of taking a sleeping pill, 663 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: and it helped the people fall asleep less than fifteen 664 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: minutes faster than the people who didn't take that. And 665 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: then it's the question of, well, what kind of sleep 666 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: are you actually getting when you pop an ambient or 667 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: a lamask or something like that, because you might not 668 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: be getting as deep of asleep as you would otherwise. Right, Well, 669 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,479 Speaker 1: the whole thing with ambient, and I am someone who 670 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: takes ambient now, and again, it's not so much that 671 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 1: it's knocking you out cold for the whole night, especially 672 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,799 Speaker 1: if you're taking a really low dose like I do, 673 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: because that's more of the placebo effect. Let's be honest. 674 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: The thing with ambient and other pills like it is 675 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: that it gives you temporary amnesia. So when you wake 676 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: up during the middle of the night, Let's say you 677 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 1: roll over and you can't go back to sleep, and 678 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 1: you're panicked about it, and you wake up the next 679 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: day and you're like, God, I just know I slept 680 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 1: terribly and um, so I'm going today is going to 681 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: be awful. With ambien, you forget that you ever rolled over, 682 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: or you forget that you had that moment of like 683 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: waking up and looking out the window or something crazy, 684 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: or you know, getting up and eating a pizza. It 685 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 1: just kind of gives you the impression when you wake 686 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: up the next day that oh, I slept okay, and 687 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: today is going to be great. So it's sort of 688 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,799 Speaker 1: some mind trickery going on, total mind trickery. And and 689 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: in that New Yorker piece, they were talking about drug 690 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: reps who were working on medication that would be more 691 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: like keep you more consistently asleep throughout the nights, so 692 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 1: not just be that sudden, sudden onset of sleep and 693 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 1: then you sort of toss and turn you just don't 694 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: remember it. They're trying to work on pills that actually 695 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: keep you asleep, but there's all these questions of safety 696 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: and so we'll see. Well, and then there's the whole 697 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: factor of lifestyle issues related to how we sleep. I mean, 698 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 1: clearly when it comes to you know, sleep on the 699 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: hormonal level and insomnia and all of that. Um, I 700 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 1: don't think that you know, don't look at your cell 701 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: phone an hour before you go to bed is really 702 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,320 Speaker 1: going to cut it. But there are so many different 703 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: behavioral tips and tricks that are endlessly cycled and recycled 704 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: on the internet that I don't think we even need 705 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: to go through on the podcast. They're so common, such as, 706 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 1: you know, limit your screen time, make your bedroom cool, 707 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: only use your bed for sleep or sex, etcetera, etcetera. Right, 708 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 1: and there's some good behavioral suggestions that I hadn't really 709 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: thought about. I mean, this seems like it's common since now, 710 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: of course, And it's just exposing yourself to sunlight as 711 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: soon as you can to sort of tell your body 712 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: and your brain and all those pesky hormones that it's 713 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: time to get up. They even suggest getting in an 714 00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: early morning walk with a friend as because you're combined 715 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 1: social stuff, so you're using your brain to interact with 716 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 1: your friend and then getting sunlight and exercise. And to me, 717 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: I just, um, I'd rather be asleep. I socialized with 718 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 1: NPR in the morning. I do too, sometimes I answer them. 719 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 1: But the there was a question, though, posited in the 720 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,840 Speaker 1: New York Times article that we've been siding throughout the 721 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:28,840 Speaker 1: podcast as to whether we are now just fighting our 722 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 1: ancestor's way of sleeping, which was you know Ben Franklin 723 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: and his cold air baths, of sleeping in these four 724 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: hour blocks and then waking up in the night, doing 725 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: a few things and going back to sleep. Maybe we are, 726 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, forcing ourselves into unnatural sleep patterns. Yeah, I mean, 727 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: it's definitely a cultural global idea that you get in 728 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,279 Speaker 1: your pjs and you brush your teeth and you go 729 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,239 Speaker 1: to sleep for exactly eight hours and then you get 730 00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: up and you go be a very good citizen al 731 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: in the world and work and and behave yourself and 732 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 1: all that good stuff. But yeah, maybe we are just 733 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: completely fighting nature, because it's not as if, you know, 734 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 1: these ancestors who were getting up in the middle of 735 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,280 Speaker 1: the night, they'd sleep for hours, get up, do whatever, 736 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: go back to sleep. It's not like they had it 737 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,959 Speaker 1: so so great. You know, we have all these temper 738 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 1: pedic mattresses and these pitch black rooms and don't don't 739 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,399 Speaker 1: use any blue light. Oh god. But I mean they 740 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,280 Speaker 1: were sleeping, you know, thirty five people to a bed. 741 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: They had like mice and who knows what mice and life. 742 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: So let's bring back the mice. Let's get the thirty 743 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,360 Speaker 1: five people if we can just go back to the 744 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 1: dark ages. But one thing that hasn't changed though through 745 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: all of this is the menstrual cycle. It seems like 746 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 1: I wonder if no matter what, if you know, all 747 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 1: other factors controlled for if it's still like regardless, if 748 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: women would have still have trouble with insomnia more than 749 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: men because of our periods. Yeah, all those hormones fled 750 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 1: down of the stadium being like peace out, see you later, 751 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: see you went back when you can sleep again. I 752 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: hope this was illuminating, though for not not too illuminating. 753 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: They want people to be able to sleep calmly. I 754 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,880 Speaker 1: hope this shed a calm dim light for women in 755 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,759 Speaker 1: particular who do have trouble sleeping. And we want to 756 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: hear from you. What's been your experience with insomnia and 757 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,319 Speaker 1: have you successfully overcome it and how did you do 758 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: that to let us know so we can share your 759 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,120 Speaker 1: insights with everybody else. Mom Stuff at how stuff works 760 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 1: dot com is our email address. You can also tweet 761 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 1: us at mom stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And 762 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you 763 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: right now. I've had a Facebook message here from Caitlin 764 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: in response to our Explorer series episode on Seafaring Women, 765 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: and she writes, Ladies, I am a marine scientists and 766 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 1: literally whooped for joy when I saw your Seafaring Women 767 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 1: podcast title. The timing is especially appropriate as I just 768 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: returned from a research expedition at sea. I work in 769 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: a deep sea research lab, and part of my job 770 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,920 Speaker 1: entails going out to sea to collect samples and study 771 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,319 Speaker 1: sites that can exist thousands of meters deep. When I 772 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: tell friends and family that I'm heading to see the 773 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 1: general consensus is that I'm sitting on deck sipping mohitos 774 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,800 Speaker 1: while waiting my turn to blaze shuffle board. Many folks 775 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: have a hard time understanding why in the world I 776 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,279 Speaker 1: would even want to be stranded on a ship for 777 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 1: multiple weeks at a time. It's true, even in this 778 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: day and age, ship life can be challenging. No phone service, 779 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:44,399 Speaker 1: interimittent Internet, absolutely no Netflix. It's enough to send even 780 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: the most adventurous person crazy after a while. I, however, 781 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,279 Speaker 1: embrace the isolation for one with no phone to serve 782 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: as a distraction. People actually converse at meals. I've developed 783 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 1: long lasting friendships with people I have sailed with because 784 00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 1: we were forced to look at each other in the 785 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,719 Speaker 1: eye and communicate without the assistance of emails, texts, and 786 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,840 Speaker 1: Facebook messages. Also, there's something absolutely breathtaking about looking around 787 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: you in all directions and seeing no indication of human life. 788 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,880 Speaker 1: Some of the best star gazing I've ever done has 789 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,279 Speaker 1: been on a ship, and a huge incentive from the 790 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 1: science perspective is that when I'm at sea, I am 791 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 1: privy to something that not many people have the opportunity 792 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,880 Speaker 1: to see, the deep sea. I've traveled a couple of 793 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 1: thousand feet deep in a submersible to a site that 794 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: was little explored, and I can't even begin to describe 795 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,000 Speaker 1: what it feels like to know that you're seeing something 796 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,160 Speaker 1: that no one has ever seen before. It's surreal and 797 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,440 Speaker 1: it sounds surreal. She goes on to talk about how 798 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,239 Speaker 1: Rachel Carson and Sylvia Earle or Deepness have been long 799 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,359 Speaker 1: standing heroines of mine, and when I had the opportunity 800 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,800 Speaker 1: to meet Sylvia Earle, it took me thirty minutes to 801 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: work up the nerve to talk to her, and she 802 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,840 Speaker 1: is amazing. As just a few resources if you're interested, 803 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,840 Speaker 1: I did outreach for deep sea research crews so you 804 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 1: guys can read about life see at acid Horizon dot 805 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: tumbler dot com. And for those of your listeners who 806 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: are interested in exploring the deep sea from the comfort 807 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,359 Speaker 1: of their homes, check out nautilus live dot org. They 808 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,520 Speaker 1: have a live feed running from their ship and viewers 809 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: can watch and listen to the scientists explore the sea floor. 810 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,280 Speaker 1: That is so cool, Caitlin, and thank you so much 811 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,280 Speaker 1: for writing in. And I have a letter here from Whitney, 812 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,760 Speaker 1: who is a woman after my own heart. She wrote 813 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,480 Speaker 1: us to share a story about her family history, particularly 814 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,799 Speaker 1: one woman named Penelope Um. She says the story is 815 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,960 Speaker 1: not exactly related to exploring, but to female perseverance in 816 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,360 Speaker 1: the settlement of North America. She says, I had remembered 817 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,000 Speaker 1: vague details about Penelope van prince Stout as a child, 818 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,359 Speaker 1: but recently found a family history book that went into 819 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,560 Speaker 1: much more detail around Penelope and her first husband set 820 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,239 Speaker 1: sail from Holland for New Amsterdam. Unfortunately, the ship they 821 00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,879 Speaker 1: were on somehow sunk just off the coast of Sandy Hook, 822 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: but most of the party made it to shore. Once 823 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,640 Speaker 1: on land, the party was attacked by Native Americans in 824 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: the area, killing Penelope's husband. Penelope suffered major stomach wounds 825 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,240 Speaker 1: and hid in the hollow of a tree until another 826 00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: group of Native Americans founder. She lived in the natives 827 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,319 Speaker 1: village and was nursed back to health by them. Sometime later, 828 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,280 Speaker 1: she married Richard Stout and they moved to New Jersey 829 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: in sixteen sixty five. However, hardship was not over for Penelope. 830 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,280 Speaker 1: She had become close to the native tribe that saved 831 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,040 Speaker 1: her life, and when they heard of a planned attack 832 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,680 Speaker 1: on her settlement, they came to warner her husband, Richard 833 00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,279 Speaker 1: either didn't believe her warnings about an attack or chose 834 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,360 Speaker 1: to stay in fight. As we can tell from her 835 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,960 Speaker 1: previous experience, as Penelope was not one to give up. 836 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,840 Speaker 1: Despite having one bum arm, she took her ten children 837 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 1: in a canoe to safety without Richard. When I learned 838 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 1: the story of Penelope, I felt honored to be distantly 839 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,560 Speaker 1: related to her. She was an explorer in her own right, 840 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: living in a new land at a time when women 841 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,640 Speaker 1: were not allowed to be strong willed. I sincerely hope 842 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,320 Speaker 1: I inherited some of those traits along with her good genes. 843 00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,760 Speaker 1: As she lived to be a hundred and ten years old, Whitney. 844 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 1: That is so cool. Thank you so much for sharing 845 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,799 Speaker 1: your history story, and thanks to everybody to share their 846 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,480 Speaker 1: stories with us. Mom stuff at how stuff works dot 847 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: com is our email address and for links to all 848 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,359 Speaker 1: of our social media as well as all of our 849 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,319 Speaker 1: blog post, videos, and podcasts which include our sources so 850 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,120 Speaker 1: you can follow along. There's one place to go, and 851 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:27,399 Speaker 1: it's stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. For more 852 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,719 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, is it how 853 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:38,520 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com