WEBVTT - #278 Jason Flom with Walter Goudy 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.040 On October third, nineteen ninety three, Walter Gowdy threw a 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:10.000 party at his Indianapolis home. His half brother Romeo Lee, 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.160 and their shorter friend Kiti Harvell drove one of Walter's 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:17.440 cars to an after hours club in Anderson, Indiana. After 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.200 an altercation outside, Romeo approached a car on the passenger 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.480 side and Kitie was on the driver side. The driver 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.080 was fatally shot and a passenger was wounded. Witnesses described 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:32.400 the driver side shooter as shorter than the other. Months later, 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.879 Walter Gowdy was the same after hours club in the 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.040 same car and picked up by Detective Rodney Cummings, who 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:40.479 put him into a one man show up where Walter 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:44.080 was mistaken for the passenger side shooter his half brother Romeo. 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:49.080 Despite sixteen alibi witnesses, Walter was charged with the murder, 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.760 but between Walter's overly suggestive ID and his strong alibi, 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.600 the charges were dropped, which did not sit well with 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.400 Detective Cummings. When Kytie Harvell was later i indeed in 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.160 a live lineup by three witnesses as the driver's side shooter, 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.160 he told Cummings that Walter was the driver's side shooter, 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:10.920 not him. While placing Romeo on the passenger side. Detective 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:15.920 Cummings ran for District Attorney one and reindicted Walter. Despite 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.720 Romeo's confession naming Kite and himself, the state still forged 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:25.040 ahead with a prosecution based on conflicting witnesses. Almost all 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.039 misidentified Walter as his half brother on the passenger's side, 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.560 except Kite, who placed Walter in his place on the 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:36.240 driver side. Walter was sentenced to one hundred and ten 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:54.080 years in prison. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:58.520 wrongful Conviction today's episode. This is almost like the cartoon 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:00.560 of the Ping Pong match, where your head going back 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.800 and forth. You're like, wait, what what? Like you just 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.920 got going to believe the way this case unfolded and 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.359 how the system, I'm going to be generous and say, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.040 made mistake after mistake and then compounded their mistakes, and 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:15.600 then even when the mistakes were corrected, they made sure 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:20.359 to correct the correction to make sure the mistakes. I mean, 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.480 it's I'm at a loss for words on this one. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.160 I got to tell you, but we're here with the 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.880 man who survived this ordeal, Walter Guadi Walter, I'm so 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:30.919 sorry you're here because of why you're here, but I'm 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:32.880 really honored that you're here to tell your story. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.200 Appreciate it very much. So appreciate it. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.520 And with him is his civil attorney, Richard Devorak. Richard, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.000 it's your first time on the show, and I certainly 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.000 hope it's not your last. And I know you've done 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:46.200 great work on this case in particular, and I'm really 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:47.840 really delighted to have you on the show. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:49.680 Thank you for the invitation. I appreciate it. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:54.040 So this is an Indiana story, which we're hearing more 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:58.040 and more about lately, as more wrongful convictions and prosecutor 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.840 must conducted police corruption are being wrecked, not only in 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.920 Indiana but all over the country. But before we get 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.960 into how that affects your case, Walter, I want to 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.200 go back to before all of that happened. Now, you 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.639 were born in Chicago, but you grew up out West. 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:14.280 Is that right? 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:16.960 Okay? I grew up in Los Angeles, myself and my 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.040 three siblings. My mom's up and moved moved away from 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.320 our father's But I grew up in Los Angeles during 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:28.200 the heyday of the gang banging and the drugs. That's 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.239 all we had to do to get by. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.600 You mentioned your siblings. Now two of them, Lamont and Romeo, 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.880 were deeply affected by this incident. Romeo, of course, was 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.200 directly involved. Can you tell us about him? 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.320 Never smoked a joint none in his life. He provided 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:45.040 himself on that. He's a real cool guy. He's really loyal, 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.240 but he gets angry really quick. Romeo is the one 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.720 that you go get with us. Drama is they want 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.200 to fight out here, We're going to get Romeo. Growing up, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.880 we both took martial arts, both took boxing. We both 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.280 started gang banging out there. No father figure. My mail 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.200 figures consist of the older guys in the streets. We 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.720 didn't have the people that tells you you could be somebody. 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.160 And the guys doing well out there were selling. 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.480 Drugs exactly exactly. We see the guy with the big Cadillac. 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.400 He always got the money, he got the jury, he 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:17.800 got the girls slot there. We want to be like that. 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.240 Me being the oldest, I felt in coming upon me 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.520 to get out there and make something for my siblings. 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.520 You know what I mean. I saw selling drugs really young, 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.120 like thirteen years old. So I get a hold to Indiana. 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.680 I say, when I turned like twenty one. A friend 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.840 of mine was out there telling me how much the 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.000 drugs is going for, you know, So I came out 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.320 there and visit and found out, yeah, yeah, more expensive 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:40.600 Indiana than they are in California. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.960 So you saw this as an opportunity and started taking 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.680 the risk. You know, there was a lot of risk, 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.160 let's face it, of transporting the drugs from California to 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.159 Indiana in order to reap the reward of a higher 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.600 profit margin. And despite a few arrests, including one in 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.280 Saint Louis from marijuana possession that had an effect, as 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.120 it turns out on this case, the risk had paid off, 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.200 at least temporarily. You made a lot of money, owned 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.560 a home, had multiple cars, and we're investing in legitimate businesses. 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.520 You had your own nightclub. But before we go any further, 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.400 can you tell us a little bit about this one 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.720 character who you met in Indiana with the interesting name 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:18.640 Kytie Harvell. 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.479 I only had new Kittie like five months before this 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.919 all this happened. Titi is okay Laurna Smith, which is 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.400 my girlfriend at the time. Her brother was locked up 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.800 and her brother best friend was Kitty Harvell. Me and 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:31.839 her brother became real cool like my brother in law. 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:33.599 He let me know one day, Man, my god, you 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:35.159 ain't get out now, don't you look out for him? 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.240 Kydie got out. I'll take him shopping. I'll take him 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.720 on my under my wing. Started him hang with me 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:42.640 all the time. You know, we become best of friends. 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.280 I felt that he really was a genuine guy. I mean, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:47.880 I just did. I don't know. I don't know how 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.200 I got sold to seat. And that's what really the problem. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:52.960 My brother got me now because my brother didn't even 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.280 know him. My brother just called herself having his back 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.599 because he's my guy. So now he find his stuff 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.360 in prison with one hundred ten years. Now we're trying 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.479 to help my guy who turned out to be a scumback, 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:06.680 you know, I mean, for lack of a better term. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:10.680 Right, I'm sure you probably feel some degree of guilt 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.680 for even putting those two together. But your brother did 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:15.680 what he did, and at least he came forward instead 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.320 of lying about you like Kydi did. Now there's one 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.799 more thing to cover, which bears heavily on this case. 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.719 Kiti is about five to eight look and looks nothing 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.159 like you and Romeo, who are both over six feet tall. 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.520 And let's face it, you share a mother, your family. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:32.479 You guys look similar. 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.320 Yeah we do, Yeah we do. We get a lot 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.039 even to this day, and were both balked now, so 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:36.920 we really get it now. 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.279 And this is important because it really comes up the 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.880 identification process in this case, because you have people identifying 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.320 you in your brother Romeo's role on the passenger side 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.479 of the car, and then Kitie and perhaps the police 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.320 tried to create and capitalize on some confusion around there 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.839 being two shooters, one short, one tall on which side 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.640 of a car. So let's get to that. The night 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.960 of October third, nineteen eighty three, you were hosting a 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.400 party at your home in Indianautlis Now tell us how 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.600 the rest of the night played out, and Richard, feel 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:10.800 free to jump in whatever you want. 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.320 So October third, I thow a party in Annapolis. Nice party, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.560 big party, a lot of way. He's smoking, drinking, hanging party. 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:22.720 It no miles party. During the party, my brother in Harvelle. 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:24.880 They left went to a club and which is like 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.560 thirty forty five minutes they go there in Anderson, Indiana. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.320 Altercation occurred outside of the club. I later found out 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:33.520 they was in one of my cars. At the time, 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.960 I had like six cars. I'm ready in the cars. 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.680 The altercation occurred with Kyti and the victim, Missus McLeod 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.360 shooting the curve and Rom your assistant in the shooting. 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:45.160 It had nothing to do with a car jack and 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.640 that's the story Kyte made up. I later found out 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.280 through my brother and again again I had several cars 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.680 and I wouldn't need to, you know, be involved, nothing 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:56.960 like that. But they had this incident. They agreed not 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.720 to tell me about it because I'll be upset. I 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:01.760 do absolute nothing about this case. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.280 So there was a shooting at a club called the 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:09.240 Oasis and Anderson, Indiana. There were two shooters ran up 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.120 on a car that was parked in the parking lot 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:15.720 outside of the Oasis, and one shooter was a shorter 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.560 person and he was up on the driver side and 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.040 there was a taller suspect on the passenger side. The 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:27.240 occupants of the vehicle were a Marvin McLeod who was 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.640 in the driver's seat, Damon Nunn who was in the 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.000 passenger seat, and then Jill Barkley who was in the 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:38.760 back seat. So mister McLeod, unfortunately and tragically was shot 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.640 and died, and mister Nunn was shot, but he survived 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:44.600 and ended up being a witness in this case. So 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.880 there was no suspect. Originally, this went on for several 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.200 months with no suspect. There was some heat from the 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.319 NAACP and other organizations, and there's some pressure to solve 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:59.160 the case. So fast forward to February of nineteen ninety four. 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.800 Walt was actually at the Oasis and there was someone in, 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.520 an employee of Oasis, who said, oh, that person you 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.679 know looks familiar. They thought that maybe he might have 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.400 been one of the people involved. Now, that person never 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.080 testified a trial, never identified him or anything. That just 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.840 that's what got their attention. And obviously it'd be pretty 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:17.760 logical to show up at the place where you did 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:18.640 the shooting. 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.240 In the same car, no less in the same car, 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.880 in the same car some of there playing pool and 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.800 here comes two officers ask me, see smady, you asked 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.160 some step outside sound was identified as being someone who's 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.839 evolved in a shooting in October, which you will to 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:36.480 come down to the station for a lineup. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.760 So at this point we've already established that you knew 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.120 nothing about this crime, but you did something that later 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.800 really seemed to get under the skin of Detective Rodney Cummings. 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.680 You gave him an alias James Benneman in order to 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:52.520 avoid the warrant that I mentioned earlier out of Saint 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.760 Louis from marijuana possession. So continue, you go down to 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:58.480 the station for this lineup, right. 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:00.640 I go to the station. They put me in that 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.480 room by myself. There was one way mirror glass. He 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:09.760 come back in the area, he tells me I was identified. Possible. Impossible, 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.199 they don't. I'm not arrested, but they put me in 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.760 a jail suit like forty five minutes later. This time 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.480 they put me in a full lineup with five people. 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:20.240 This time me and five people, because the witness knew 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.240 four of the other people it was in the lineup. 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.920 The people that's identified, it's Senaport reports. 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.600 So the second lineup was basically pointless. It's almost as 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.439 suggestive as the one man show up, if that's even possible. 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:37.319 So nonetheless, the witness from the backseat, Jill Barkley, identified 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:41.280 you as the taller passenger side shooter, which kind of 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.559 makes sense since you look like your own half brother. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.920 But then you were released. Maybe they kind of knew 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.240 that their lineup was overly suggestive. I don't know. I mean, 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.000 why were you released at that time that caught? 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.880 Would me still be an adamant that it wasn't me 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.480 willing to submit to a polygraph. I gave him all 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.840 cell phone numbers. I gave him my page you number. 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.040 I gave my address to well I'm located at all that. 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.760 So he told me he was willing to let me 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.040 go this on Friday. He's willing to let me go 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.560 come back Monday when he gets some more witnesses that 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.520 he can put me in more lineups. Had me agree 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.720 to come back Monday. When I agreed, I agreed. But however, 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.000 I gave you aliens name because I had warrant by 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.600 the Saint Louis had marijuana on the highway, so I 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:24.640 gave him a fake name. Had they ran my princes, 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.559 I wasn't going nowhere. So by Monday you knew who 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.000 I was because you went on the random prince. You 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.440 knew I was. Now you know I had to warrant. Yeah, 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.240 you're not who you say you were. So Monday I 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.079 call him, I said, I ain't got transtation, can you 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.199 come pick me up? I don't worry about we be 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.200 in touch. Tuesday that came kicked the door into my 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.480 girlfriend house, arrested me, did another lineup. 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.040 They tried to do an official lineup, and they do 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.839 a second lineup. This one didn't involve people that she 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.600 knew by that time, though. It's ridiculous because she obviously 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:01.120 know who she picked out originally. And then to charge 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:05.679 Walter with the murder. But Walter was at a party 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.920 in Indianapolis, and he had sixteen alibi witnesses, and you. 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.200 Had, let's face it, you had no clue about what 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.080 happened in Anderson. But your brother, who was locked up 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.800 in Arizona unrelated charge, had found out that you are 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:19.760 now in jail for a murder in which he played 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.200 a role, and he eventually officially confessed before you went 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.800 to trial. Unfortunately, that confession was never heard by your jury. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.120 But could you tell us about when you first found 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:31.600 out about your brother's involvement. 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.199 When I first got locked up, I was in there 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:37.800 maybe two weeks. No idea. While I'm here, this sounds crazy. 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.680 I know I haven't done that much wrong in the world. 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.360 I know I love a few things, but so Romeo 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:49.000 calls my girlfriend, my daughter's mother, when she told him 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.280 I was locked up for murder. He liked for murder, Like, yeah, 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.559 they say he shot somebody in Andersy, like you recognize, 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:01.440 Like he's played my lawyer. Everything happened. My Lord comes 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.200 to visit me, big old smile on his face. I 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.280 know why to think it's you. I still what it 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.960 was your brother in Harvel, because my brother's in Arizona 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:13.440 locked up. I know I've been on the phone with 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:14.000 Themorrow Morning. 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.920 Okay, so this is in maybe March of nineteen ninety four, 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.000 but he doesn't officially come forward until December ninety five, 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.040 which is after you were reindicted and about to go 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.119 to trial. And let's be clear, Romeo gave that confession 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.640 against his own self interest. He ended up with a 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.040 one hundred and ten year sentence. So, I mean, talk 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.760 about just going against your own self interest. But it 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.280 finally made sense of your misidentification because, like we said, 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.600 you two are half brothers, and you do look alike. 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.600 But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. At this point, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.320 all you officially had in your defense, which was enough 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:51.000 to drop the charges, was sixteen alibi witnesses placing you 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.359 in Indianapolis, the fact that your identification was overly suggestive. 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.199 And then Jill Barkley, the backseat passenger witness, had spotted 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.440 Kitie Harvel in Indianapolis and reported it the court. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.960 To reports, Kitty was in a Value City one day 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.800 in Indianapolis and the chick that was in the back 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.360 seat of the car when a shoot happened. Seeing they 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.920 locked eyes on each other and she watched him as 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.080 he walked out and she's like, that's the guy. So 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.720 this is her. In a report she mentioned that because 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.360 when they gave him a lineup, she's like, that's the 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.120 guy right there, I seeing the Value City, that's him. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.920 That's the shooter. That's the shooter that was on the 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:25.040 driver's side of the car. 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.040 Right So Jill Barklay's identification of Kitie happened in March 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.200 of ninety four along with two other witnesses, Jackie Barclay 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:36.200 and Latanya Young. Latanya had at one point idd Walter 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.640 as a driver's side shooter, but in March of ninety 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:42.840 four she was positive it was Kitie. So maybe Latania 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:46.840 impeaches herself, but Jackie and Jill have been pretty consistent, 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:51.760 so this likely played heavily into your charges being dropped 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.480 by the prosecutor at the time, Bill Lawler. So then 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.840 you were extradited to Saint Louis for the marijuana possession warrant. 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.240 Rodney Cummings and his partner Steve Navier. They did not 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.120 agree with this decision to drop the charges. 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:05.920 He wasn't willing to let it go. He didn't want 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.440 to let it go to him. To this day, he 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.040 think I got away to him. I got away with murder. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:12.680 I don't know how I got away. I just did 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:14.840 sixty nineve years for one but two out of had 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.160 him do it at all. His beef for me was 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.640 that I deceived him with the name. He felt that 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.400 I played him. That's his where, that is where to use. 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.400 He said, you played me, but. 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.360 Fake name or not. The prosecutor was simply following the evidence, 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.160 not some personal vendetta. He was doing his job, in 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.960 other words, So while Cummings continued to investigate the case, 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.080 Walter remained on his mind. Now. Despite this positive id, 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.720 Kiti didn't get picked up until June of ninety four 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.280 on an unrelated burglary charge and an interview that was 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.040 not even discovered until civil litigation, Kitie denied being involved 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.400 and gave a bogus alibi. Now, perhaps after looking into that, 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.480 Cummings brought Kitie in for a videotaped live lineup in 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:01.160 September ninety four and once again and he was positively 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.200 id as the driver side shooter by the three witnesses. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.600 Now Kitie decided to save himself, and despite the conflict 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.160 between Walter's height and that of the driver side shooter's description, 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.880 Kitie Harvell, who stood only five to eight, said that 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.160 it wasn't him who was the shorter driver side shooter, 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.600 but it was Walter, who is not five eight but 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.000 again over six feet tall. Hard to make that mistake 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.960 and snitched on Romeo as the taller shooter on the 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:34.000 passenger side. But now with this statement and your charge 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.720 is being dropped. There was a dynamic created between the 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.440 then prosecutor, Bill Lawler and Detective Cummings. 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:45.080 And Roddy Cummings happened to be a lawyer. He had 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:47.960 gone to night school while he was a police officer 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.200 to become a lawyer, and he took it upon himself 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:55.800 to run for the prosecutor's office. It's election season, it's 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.680 the fall of ninety four and lo and behold he wins. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:05.720 Detective Cummings now becomes Prosecutor Cummings. And what does Prosecutor 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:10.399 Cummings do. He turns around and reindictes Walter for the 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.080 charges that the prior prosecutor dismissed. So now we have 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:18.400 the detective becoming the prosecutor to prosecute a case where 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:19.680 he was once the detective. 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.360 The PACER's Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.560 of Rawful Conviction and of the Last Mile organization, which 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.800 provides business and tech training to help incarcerated individuals successfully 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.680 and permanently reenter the workforce. The PACER's Foundation is committed 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.680 to improving the lives of Hoosiers across Indiana, supporting organizations 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.000 that are dedicated primarily to helping young people and students. 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.880 For more information on the work of the Pacers Foundation 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.600 or the Last Mile program, visit Pacersfoundation dot org or 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:01.000 the Last Dot Org. 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:13.879 When Cummings reindictes Walter, it's on the theory that the 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:18.000 two shooters are Walter and his brother Romeo Lee, and 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:19.520 Kyte was a witness. 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:19.560 To all this. 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.160 Part of the problem, though, is that the state witnesses, 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.280 some of whom identified Walter as one of the possible shooters, 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:31.919 had identified Kata Harvell as the shooter, and that was 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.879 something that would have completely messed up that theory. So 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.720 what happens is they go to trial and Mark Mayner, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.840 the original trial attorney, suspected that he was not being 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:44.960 given all of the police reports, and he did a 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.280 motion to get the police reports and a second motion 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.480 to reconsider a motion for in camera inspection of the 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.320 prosecutor's file to see if there were some police reports 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:55.159 that he wasn't getting. 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:55.520 Well. 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.639 The judge denied it, and Walter went to trial without 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:04.679 knowing that the state's witnesses had identified Kite Harvel, another 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.879 state's witness, as one of the shooters. But what further 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.600 makes it absolutely impossible that Walter was one of the 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.760 shooters was the fact that during this prosecution, before he 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.520 went to trial, Romeo, his half brother, finally came forward 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.239 and admitted that he was the second shooter, that he 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.480 and Kyte did the shooting. So we have our two shooters. 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:25.840 Now. 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:27.800 That makes all the sense in the world, because the 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.400 physical descriptions in this case were that a shorter gentleman 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.919 was on the driver side and a taller gentleman was 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:38.640 on the passenger side. Well, Walter and Romeo are both 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.439 tall and they look alike. Kiti Harvel is short. So 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.439 rather than go on what was the truth, and the 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.000 truth is that Romeo lead to the shooting on the 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.960 passenger side and Kitie did the shooting on the driver side. Instead, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.879 the theory at Walter's trial was that Walter did it 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.639 with Romeo and Kyde was just a witness. 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.840 Yeah, this one with instructions. Right, So you have this shooter, 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:09.760 Romeo admitting, which is highly unusual before the trial, before 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:11.720 Walter's trial, that he did it, and he not only 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:13.680 said that Kyitie was the other shooter, but that Walter 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:17.240 wasn't there. He's a guy with firsthand knowledge and a 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:19.680 lot of everything to lose, right. 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.040 And unfortunately, the jury never heard the Romeo Lee confession 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:27.680 because Maynard couldn't figure out how to get it into evidence. 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.240 The confession never came in. 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.199 So one of the single most important piece of evidence 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.639 in this whole freaking case, which was later used to 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.880 convict Romeo, that jury never even heard it. It's insane, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.399 let's face it. And in case this wasn't enough the 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.240 idea that this judge didn't feel that there was any 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.879 need for the defense to see the evidence from the 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.480 police files. Richard, help you. 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.040 Out, Well, this is another unique thing about this case, 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.960 unique to Indiana. Under Indiana law, the Indiana Supreme Court 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.760 actually ruled this and it still exists today. Police reports 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:08.480 are considered work product and they do not have to 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:12.600 be tendered by the state to the defense. Now you 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.639 have to ask, well, they still have to comply with 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.000 the United States Constitution, They have to comply with Brady, 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:20.399