Speaker 1: Hi listeners, welcome back. I'm nedrig Glover to wib and
Speaker 1: you need to hear this. Sometimes the relationships that we
Speaker 1: needed at eighteen years old, they don't translate to the
Speaker 1: relationships we might need at twenty six years old, right,
Speaker 1: And there are times when we hang on a little
Speaker 1: bit longer than we need to, and it starts to
Speaker 1: impact the relationship dynamic. There are some people who grow
Speaker 1: with us and their lives reflect some of the changes
Speaker 1: that we're making. And there are some people who remain
Speaker 1: themselves And that's okay, it's not necessarily problematic, but it
Speaker 1: is a problem for the relationship. When we stay in
Speaker 1: those situations that are no longer fitted for where we
Speaker 1: are in life, be really challenging to the progress we're
Speaker 1: trying to make. Sometimes, letting those relationships go it is
Speaker 1: a reflection of honoring the good parts of that relationship
Speaker 1: and not trying to change people. There are some relationships
Speaker 1: that I've had that I think, oh my gosh, that
Speaker 1: was that was a wonderful relationship in high school. At
Speaker 1: my big age, it may not be a wonderful relationship.
Speaker 1: We may not have you know, the same music preferences anymore.
Speaker 1: We certainly may not have the same hobbies in life,
Speaker 1: and that is okay. It's okay to have those relationships
Speaker 1: where we say that was a good time. We can
Speaker 1: really mess stuff up when we're trying to continue things
Speaker 1: and it's like it's not even good anymore. I think
Speaker 1: about that sometimes when I'm watching a series, and you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you get to a point in a TV show
Speaker 1: where you're like, you know, season eight, they could have
Speaker 1: stopped this in season six, they could have left on
Speaker 1: a high note. I would have rather that they left
Speaker 1: this series when I was all in, because now I'm
Speaker 1: not even in a hurry to watch it anymore. It's
Speaker 1: not even that good. I watch it after I watch
Speaker 1: everything else that I love, because this is just okay now.
Speaker 1: And in some of our relationships, that's where it is.
Speaker 1: It's like, this is a just okay friendship, This is
Speaker 1: a just okay relationship with cousins so and so, and
Speaker 1: maybe two seasons ago in our life we needed to
Speaker 1: release it, or we needed to maybe step back and
Speaker 1: speak to this person once a year, or speak to
Speaker 1: them quarterly, or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: But there are.
Speaker 1: Times when we are taking things too far for too long.
Speaker 1: So in today's letter. I'm sure you've guessed it. It
Speaker 1: is a condition of you know, saying in something maybe
Speaker 1: a little longer than we need to, and when we're
Speaker 1: not ready to leave, we have to remember that the
Speaker 1: only solution is not cutting someone off. There are other solutions.
Speaker 1: Cutting back is also an option, right, not the cut off,
Speaker 1: but the cutback, and so we'll explore some options in
Speaker 1: today's call.
Speaker 2: Let's get started.
Speaker 3: Hi, I'm a twenty eight year old man, and I
Speaker 3: have had and built my current friend groups since I
Speaker 3: was around fifteen years old. It's a combination of people
Speaker 3: I've met through video games and chat rooms, as well
Speaker 3: as some folks we've collectively brought in from our respective
Speaker 3: colleges and other friend groups have cultivated. What I'm really
Speaker 3: struggling with is that at least one person is kind
Speaker 3: of infecting the site of our group and pushing people
Speaker 3: away at the same time. Most outsiders would view this
Speaker 3: guy as racist, homophobic, just generally a bad dude, and
Speaker 3: that's not really the problem I have with him, as
Speaker 3: most of us actually in the group understand that this
Speaker 3: is in jest. He's been more on the dark humor
Speaker 3: side since I met him. When I was around nineteen.
Speaker 3: By that age, I think most team guys have grown
Speaker 3: out of the edgy humor phase, but it always just
Speaker 3: seemed to be how he actually is and part of
Speaker 3: his true personality, rather than some phase we all went
Speaker 3: through before really developing empathy and learning how to be yourself.
Speaker 3: I myself identify as bisexual, and I'm one of the
Speaker 3: three of us of non white ethnicities, me being the
Speaker 3: only non half white ones, so they see me as
Speaker 3: an authority on that kind of thing, and if things
Speaker 3: are offensive, My problem sort of begins where this kind
Speaker 3: of joking doesn't know it's time or place. It's hard
Speaker 3: to bring women around, specifically because every single one of
Speaker 3: the girlfriends of our friends also end up hating him
Speaker 3: for his humor and degrading an and that it's a
Speaker 3: big thing that he's known for in a large part
Speaker 3: of the overall friend dynamic.
Speaker 1: See I said today's lesson was about keeping people around
Speaker 1: for too long.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: The puzzling part here for me is most people outgrow this.
Speaker 1: Outgrowing is an assumption, right. We think that certain things
Speaker 1: with people are a face, and as you can see,
Speaker 1: some things might just be a part of who they are.
Speaker 1: It might be a phase for you, but it's a
Speaker 1: lifestyle for someone else. And you know, some of this
Speaker 1: teasing and that sort of thing, When that's the way
Speaker 1: that you've predominantly been able to get support and accolades
Speaker 1: and encouragement, why would you stop it. You know, people
Speaker 1: think it's funny. Even if it's an awkward laugh, it's
Speaker 1: a laugh. And so this idea that this person would
Speaker 1: outgrow something that's actually benefiting them. Perhaps they don't. They
Speaker 1: don't see themselves. We see them, and so it's really
Speaker 1: important to remember that the reflection that you see of
Speaker 1: people is not always the idea they have of themselves.
Speaker 1: As I hear you talking about this, I wonder what
Speaker 1: would one on one contact look like versus being in
Speaker 1: a group setting with this person. It's very important that
Speaker 1: we protect our people, and sometimes we are so concerned
Speaker 1: with how the offensive person might be offended that we
Speaker 1: protect them and we don't protect the other folks in
Speaker 1: the group.
Speaker 2: And it sounds like this.
Speaker 1: Person is having an impact on the group, So there
Speaker 1: is some protection needed for everyone, and your role as
Speaker 1: the person who sees the issue clearly you're trying to
Speaker 1: work through it. Sometimes your inclusion of this person is
Speaker 1: actually more problematic than the exclusion of this person. So
Speaker 1: consider ways in which you might want to protect the
Speaker 1: overall dynamics of the group and the other people in
Speaker 1: the group. Another thing that I'm wondering here is when
Speaker 1: we are willing to deal with things with certain people,
Speaker 1: what about that makes it okay for other people to
Speaker 1: deal with it? Like, it's one thing if I can
Speaker 1: tolerate oh my gosh, this person is making me jokes.
Speaker 2: Ha ha ha ha.
Speaker 1: Ha, Right, but what I tolerate may not be appropriate
Speaker 1: for other people. You know, what I listen to might
Speaker 1: not be appropriate for other people. And so if you're
Speaker 1: noticing that in general, this person is problematic. Again, that
Speaker 1: protection piece, We're going to keep coming back to that,
Speaker 1: because it's not just about you protecting you, it's about
Speaker 1: protecting everyone else in the space as well. Because you
Speaker 1: are the facilitator of this group experience. You are the host,
Speaker 1: and so how do you host the gathering? How do
Speaker 1: you be in community with this person, perhaps on a
Speaker 1: one to one basis, and not infect everyone else with
Speaker 1: what they're doing. We're going to go to break and
Speaker 1: we'll be back.
Speaker 3: We have these huge get togethers around once a year
Speaker 3: where we go camping or rarely like a big trip
Speaker 3: to a city. I've invited my younger brother along with us,
Speaker 3: and even someone that I was romantically interested into these
Speaker 3: things because I just genuinely love these people so much.
Speaker 3: The one time I brought a guy that I was
Speaker 3: talking to to this outing, this friend made some uncomfortable
Speaker 3: jokes about some crude things to do with gay men.
Speaker 3: Wasn't directed towards us, but this person that I was
Speaker 3: interested in did end up feeling like he wasn't really
Speaker 3: welcome to stay. I ended up talking him down and
Speaker 3: he was pretty understanding, but someone else's girlfriend found it
Speaker 3: so rude and disgusting that she yelled and caused a
Speaker 3: whole scene, making the rest of the trip pretty uncomfortable
Speaker 3: when the four of us were in the same room.
Speaker 3: So I guess it's not really him directly causing a
Speaker 3: rift in our group dynamic, but the things he says
Speaker 3: and does can cause a chain reaction of problems. My
Speaker 3: younger brother has felt some discomfort too, and that makes
Speaker 3: me especially upset because I've always been protective of him.
Speaker 3: As well as this, he does make scenes in public
Speaker 3: and tends to pull in appropriate pranks on both our
Speaker 3: friends as well as innocent workers and stores, etc. For example,
Speaker 3: he'll pretend to not speak English when interacting with workers,
Speaker 3: but speak fake Spanish in a heavy American accent, making
Speaker 3: it clear he speaks English but toys with the worker's
Speaker 3: patience and intelligence. Or he'll tell waiters that a friend
Speaker 3: thinks they're attractive when they haven't even said anything about that.
Speaker 3: He's even done this to a friend who's engaged. And
Speaker 3: like I said earlier, I feel like this kind of
Speaker 3: behavior is spreading through the group a bit. Some of
Speaker 3: our friends are a bit younger, and I can tell
Speaker 3: that they try to impress this friend or just take
Speaker 3: on some of his jokes when they originally did an
Speaker 3: act like that when we first became acquainted.
Speaker 1: You know, as I'm listening to this, I am becoming
Speaker 1: aware of my response to the examples of this behavior.
Speaker 1: And it feels offensive to me to make fun of
Speaker 1: someone's language, to pick on strangers, to disrupt, you know,
Speaker 1: the group dynamics so much that you're now making uncomfortable
Speaker 1: jokes about someone's dating and.
Speaker 2: You know, just all of these things.
Speaker 1: And I hear you, you know, putting that situation on
Speaker 1: other part, Oh, well, this other person, they got upset
Speaker 1: and they caused this commotion with him. But it's like
Speaker 1: it sounds like she was tired of it to the
Speaker 1: point of, hey, somebody has to address this person. This
Speaker 1: needs to be handled now. Perhaps she didn't do it
Speaker 1: in the best way, but she did something. Laughing things
Speaker 1: off is a sign that we are uncomfortable with conversation,
Speaker 1: and so in many cases we will let people get
Speaker 1: away with saying terrible things, or making inappropriate gestures, or
Speaker 1: just doing all sorts of things.
Speaker 2: And our communication of.
Speaker 1: Is not sending the message that it's not okay, it
Speaker 1: is inappropriate. Now, that may not stop someone's behavior, but
Speaker 1: if you have someone who's making jokes about homosexuals and
Speaker 1: you just even a that's inappropriate? Why would you say
Speaker 1: that about a community that you know, I'm a part of?
Speaker 1: How do you think it? You know, may make someone
Speaker 1: feel to hear you say that about them.
Speaker 3: Stop.
Speaker 1: You know, there are so many different ways we can
Speaker 1: handle these situations, but laughing it off is not the
Speaker 1: appropriate response as a way to avoid some sort of offensiveness,
Speaker 1: because what happens is it encourages the inappropriate behavior.
Speaker 2: They're not even.
Speaker 1: Told hey, don't say that. And let's say that you're saying, like, man,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't say stuff like that. Even that tone is
Speaker 1: laughing it off. There needs to be some seriousness in
Speaker 1: the way that you say things to people.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of jokes about how parents would let
Speaker 1: you know that you're you know, this is serious. It
Speaker 1: could be a look, It could be a certain tone
Speaker 1: of the voice.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it was the way my mother called my name,
Speaker 1: you know, she said a full name is like oh attention, right,
Speaker 1: Like how how is this person able to distinguish between
Speaker 1: like joke and serious? In your discomfort, you are sort
Speaker 1: of participating and keeping it going. There's a saying one
Speaker 1: bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch. And as I think
Speaker 1: about this, I think about the strawberries and my refrigerator
Speaker 1: that I discover. You know, you find a little mold
Speaker 1: on one, and guess what, you come back the next
Speaker 1: day five are covered in mo You come back the
Speaker 1: next day, have to container, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: So maybe a bad apple doesn't spoil bunch, but some
Speaker 1: bad fruit in a bunch does spoil the whole basket.
Speaker 1: Him being in this situation with people of varying maturity levels,
Speaker 1: varying experiences. It is dangerous for a group dynamic because
Speaker 1: what happens is it creates the group culture. There are
Speaker 1: so there are so many you know, articles and books
Speaker 1: on this, Like group culture is really important. You think
Speaker 1: about in a workplace, if everybody is this grun told
Speaker 1: and a happy person comes in, eventually this happy person
Speaker 1: has to be less happy or they have to leave
Speaker 1: the space. They can't stand that environment because they have
Speaker 1: to be a part of the environment. So if you
Speaker 1: have someone infecting a group dynamic, yeah, everybody else kind
Speaker 1: of has to join in to be a part of that,
Speaker 1: or you will have people leaving because they don't want
Speaker 1: to be a part of it. I want to share
Speaker 1: a quote from the book The Art of Gathering. You
Speaker 1: will have begun to gather with purpose when you learn
Speaker 1: to exclude with purpose, when you learn.
Speaker 2: To close doors.
Speaker 1: Everyone cannot be a part of the gathering. They cannot
Speaker 1: be a part of the group, They cannot be a
Speaker 1: part of the clique. That's why we have the word group.
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have the word group if everybody could be
Speaker 1: in it, it would be called everybody. So this group,
Speaker 1: what is the tone of the group. What is the
Speaker 1: purpose of the group, What is the vibe of the group?
Speaker 1: If it's to gather, be respectful, have a great time,
Speaker 1: celebrate moments in life, how is this person.
Speaker 2: Contributing to the role of the group.
Speaker 1: It sounds like there is it's something.
Speaker 2: They're taken away from it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like a value add So it's not that,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't have a relationship with this person.
Speaker 2: But perhaps this.
Speaker 1: Person doesn't need to be in the group dynamic. Perhaps
Speaker 1: there is, you know, another setting and which you need
Speaker 1: to be involved. Maybe you can go hang out with
Speaker 1: this person in their group. Maybe there's a group of
Speaker 1: totally offensive people that they hang out with and you
Speaker 1: want to be a.
Speaker 2: Part of that group.
Speaker 1: But as for your group, it sounds like there is
Speaker 1: a mismatch and fit.
Speaker 3: This guy doesn't seem to understand that there's a time
Speaker 3: and place for things, and it's a bit embarrassing, especially
Speaker 3: because we're nearing thirty, starting families, et cetera. I want
Speaker 3: to preserve what the friendship is because it's a really
Speaker 3: special bond between us, But at the same time, I'm
Speaker 3: starting to think this is unacceptable and I don't really
Speaker 3: want to be closely associated with him and lose other
Speaker 3: friends and acquaintances as we age. If I could, I
Speaker 3: would probably break off the friendship with him, but it's
Speaker 3: just not my decision to make, and there are only
Speaker 3: one or two others who feel similarly to me about him.
Speaker 3: He'll always be around and at our functions and when
Speaker 3: we're talking one on one. He's actually a pretty smart
Speaker 3: and good guy, but it's impossible to get through out
Speaker 3: to him about his behavior when he's getting egged on
Speaker 3: or is excited, etc. I'm not sure how to preserve
Speaker 3: our friend group dynamic while at the same time not
Speaker 3: pushing away other people or having this gross mindset be
Speaker 3: all the groups about. Just wanted to try my shot
Speaker 3: at getting any advice. Thanks for any help you may have.
Speaker 1: I'm hearing more of a reason for a one on one.
Speaker 1: There are some people who just don't fit the tone
Speaker 1: of a setting, and it doesn't mean that they can't
Speaker 1: be in the setting, but you can't be in this group.
Speaker 1: We only want the best kickers on this team. So
Speaker 1: it sounds like you are good with hands, not feet.
Speaker 1: You know, it's okay to have a little bit of
Speaker 1: a value system for the groups that we're in or
Speaker 1: to have some similarities of people. That's what makes it
Speaker 1: a group. And if this person no longer fits into
Speaker 1: what the group is about, spend some time with them
Speaker 1: one on one, get to know them in a different setting.
Speaker 1: I want to say here that you know, I think
Speaker 1: sometimes the way that some folks social anxiety shows up
Speaker 1: is in the way of being overactive in a group dynamic,
Speaker 1: maybe having a little bit too much to drink and
Speaker 1: becoming like this funny, offensive person. Like that's the way
Speaker 1: that I know how to show up and be comfortable
Speaker 1: and just kind of sitting back and letting everybody talk
Speaker 1: and somebody else, you know, kind of manage the conversation.
Speaker 1: Can be a challenge. Now, I'm not giving this person
Speaker 1: an outer or man excuse. I'm just adding a reason, right, Like,
Speaker 1: there could be some other things going on, So he
Speaker 1: just might not be good in a group dynamic and
Speaker 1: might be a great guy. You'll have to find that
Speaker 1: out by building this one on one relationship with him.
Speaker 1: But what you will not do is come in and
Speaker 1: spoil the rest of my blueberries, because we have to
Speaker 1: pluck you out of here. We have to keep this
Speaker 1: whole curtain fresh, and so you've got to go. Now
Speaker 1: where you go, we can decide maybe, you know, there
Speaker 1: is some other space for us. Maybe there are you know,
Speaker 1: one or two people from this group, and then you
Speaker 1: start another group, or maybe it's just you and this
Speaker 1: fella and you figure out what the relationship is at
Speaker 1: this point. It is great to have historical relationships. I
Speaker 1: love them. I mean, I have a few friends I
Speaker 1: could call right now and we can have a our long,
Speaker 1: key key about Remember that time that girl drop that
Speaker 1: book off your desk and you said, oh my gosh, oh,
Speaker 1: I love a good historical friendship where we could just
Speaker 1: you know, we could talk about these things. Are these
Speaker 1: things that are in the past, nobody else understands. They're
Speaker 1: so funny to us, even you know, sometimes we'll try
Speaker 1: to pull other people into the story and it's just
Speaker 1: not funny to them.
Speaker 2: They were not there.
Speaker 1: They don't have context, so it's not the same. But
Speaker 1: I get it. You know, the stories and the situations
Speaker 1: you've been through with certain people. It is a huge
Speaker 1: part of the relationship. There is someone else, though, who
Speaker 1: holds that history, and if not, you may have to
Speaker 1: get into the retelling of some old stories because keeping
Speaker 1: this person because they know that nineteen year old, twenty
Speaker 1: year old version of you, and it's no longer a
Speaker 1: good fit for who you are at twenty eight. You know,
Speaker 1: it compose a challenge. You know, what happens when you
Speaker 1: all are thirty two, What happens when you're forty? What
Speaker 1: happens if someone has kids and you have to bring
Speaker 1: this person around who's saying ruda inappropriate? You know, like,
Speaker 1: I think it could get, you know, worse in some
Speaker 1: ways if it's not a situation that's really addressed head
Speaker 1: on the passive, you know, sort of, Oh, this is humor.
Speaker 1: I have a really good sense of humor. I mean
Speaker 1: from I watch all sorts of comedy, from the Office
Speaker 1: to Curb Your Enthusiasm to Kat Williams to Kevin Hart. Like,
Speaker 1: I love humor, and I think sometimes when we are
Speaker 1: in one on one conversations, we take mean comments as
Speaker 1: humor because we don't want to believe that this person
Speaker 1: is actually mean. I don't think that Kevin Hart is
Speaker 1: being mean to his friends and family, Like I think
Speaker 1: he's telling jokes, and he's probably telling them on stage,
Speaker 1: but he's not actually making comments about somebody's you know,
Speaker 1: I hope not, you know, because that's not a good joke.
Speaker 2: It's just me.
Speaker 1: It's not a good joke. And the humor in it
Speaker 1: is discomfort. It's like, because we do laugh when it's uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: it's like, what else do you do? Sometimes we just
Speaker 1: stand there, we stare at people. But there are other
Speaker 1: times where we laugh to sort of deflect. But that
Speaker 1: laughing is really like encouragement. Let's stop looking at mean
Speaker 1: comments as humor statements. There is a big difference. And
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be harmful and I'm trying to be funny.
Speaker 1: There are some things that people are saying that make
Speaker 1: us uncomfortable. We're unwilling to confront them, and so we
Speaker 1: try to laugh it off.
Speaker 2: There is.
Speaker 1: Space for us to have some uncomfortable conversations with people
Speaker 1: that might make us more uncomfortable. Right, we will be
Speaker 1: the person who's like, now we want to laugh because
Speaker 1: we're so uncomfortable. But it is necessary. We cannot avoid
Speaker 1: these hard topics with people because what happens is it's
Speaker 1: been nine years. It's turned into nine years of this
Speaker 1: person being a group offender. It has gone from oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, he's saying these things and we're teenagers and
Speaker 1: it's a little bit funny to wow, he is really
Speaker 1: offending people. You ended your letter with, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how to preserve our friend group dynamic while at the
Speaker 1: same time not pushing away other people or having this
Speaker 1: gross mindset be what all the group is about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1: Sure you'll be able to do both in this situation,
Speaker 1: preserve the group and have this person in it. It
Speaker 1: sounds like you've been doing that for nine years and
Speaker 1: it hasn't worked. And when something doesn't work, we are
Speaker 1: called to do a new thing, even when we don't
Speaker 1: want to do that new thing. It would be unwise
Speaker 1: of us to continue to do something in the same
Speaker 1: way expecting a different result.
Speaker 2: And sometimes we.
Speaker 1: Do that because doing anything just a little bit different
Speaker 1: is a huge discomfort. It is, you know, it's a
Speaker 1: huge discomfort to say every year we have this, you know,
Speaker 1: big Saint Patrick's blowout, and this year.
Speaker 2: We're not inviting him.
Speaker 1: Just this year, we're not sending him our location, we
Speaker 1: won't mention it, we will ghost the group chat.
Speaker 2: You know, like it will be.
Speaker 1: Uncomfortable, I'm sure, not just for you, but for everyone. Else,
Speaker 1: there will be questions around where's we're so and so,
Speaker 1: where so and so like it will happen, but over
Speaker 1: time it will be a much easier process. We have
Speaker 1: experienced so many uncomfortable things.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I have a very vivid memory of my first day
Speaker 1: of ninth grade. I obsessed over what to wearsessed over
Speaker 1: what to wear. I remember uncomfortable. This was a new
Speaker 1: school in a new neighborhood. It was ugh. I survived it.
Speaker 1: I am here to say that I did ninth grade,
Speaker 1: tenth grade, twelfth grade, and I went to college. You know,
Speaker 1: many new experiences. So you know I have a wealth
Speaker 1: of discomfort under my belt, and so do you. This
Speaker 1: is just another thing. You are well trained in discomfort,
Speaker 1: and it's something that you can manage. Even though it
Speaker 1: feels very overwhelming to do a new thing in this situation,
Speaker 1: it's something you can manage. I have full confidence that
Speaker 1: you know there's a way for you to preserve this
Speaker 1: relationship and continue on in a healthy group dynamic.
Speaker 2: You need to hear this.
Speaker 1: Perhaps the solution is not to cut someone off, but
Speaker 1: maybe there's a way to cut act on the relationship.
Speaker 1: We have to figure out a healthy rhythm of what
Speaker 1: works when we want to be in relationships with people
Speaker 1: that are no longer meeting our needs or with people
Speaker 1: who we have some challenges with but we deeply love.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that we can't have the relationship, but
Speaker 1: it is a question of how can I be in
Speaker 1: this relationship? You need to hear This is an iHeart
Speaker 1: production hosted by me Nedra Glover to wob Our executive
Speaker 1: producer is Joe L. Barnique. Our senior producer and editor
Speaker 1: is Mia don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with
Speaker 1: your questions about boundaries and relationships at you need to
Speaker 1: Hear This at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to
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Speaker 1: this episode with someone who needs to hear this. Talk
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