1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff. Mom never told you from house to 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: works not come hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And Caroline. I feel like I 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: should be wearing my high tops and my favorite striped 5 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: sweatshirt for this episode. Yeah, I should totally be in 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: my Is it Athleta the brand? Yeah? Yes, I should 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: be wearing my fancy athlete A sweatshirt. It's it's sweatshirt material. 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: It's very soft, but it has like an asymmetrical front, 9 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: so it's snazzy. I didn't realize. I went into athlete 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: at one time looking for sports bras, and as I 11 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: was walking around, I was like, whoa, they have clothes 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: like that I can wear outside and not have it 13 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: look like I'm just walking around in gym clothes. Yeah. 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: Athleta is a division of Gap, and They're clothes are 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: becoming more successful than Gaps I know. Well as about leisure, Yeah, 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: well Gap did just hire a new creative director. I 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: think so maybe they'll come stage to come back perhaps, 18 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: But can anything be as comfortable as that sweatshirt? I 19 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: submit to you that it cannot. Yeah, I am wearing 20 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: these pants that are kind of as close to yoga 21 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: pants as I could get wearing to the office. They're 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: like a thicker yoga pants, but I got a zip 23 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: in the back, y'all a little stretch. Yeah, they also 24 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: still feel slightly inappropriate for the office. But my gosh, 25 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: all of this spandex is just so comfortable. It's like 26 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: I'm not wearing pants at all, which is actually like 27 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: my nightmare about I've had that dream about myself. Not 28 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: you good good, Um. But we're talking about our high tops, 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: which I do own, and I do love them. They're 30 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: so warm. They're like ugs, but like better, you know, 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: because they keep more socially acceptable a little bit at 32 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: this point, Um, and all of our comfortable clothes because, 33 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: as you probably guess from the title of this podcast episode, 34 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about the ath leisure trend because it's here 35 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: to stay. And I argue that it says a lot 36 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: about perhaps where we are workplace culture is and some 37 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: some gender workplace and out of workplace culture. Wise, I 38 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: would say that it says a lot about the fact 39 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: that work life balance doesn't really it's not a thing anymore. 40 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: People talk about work life balance from a very like 41 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: eighties and nineties perspective, but in our changing economy, Kristen, 42 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: especially as we get more fancy tech companies that let 43 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: you bring your dog to work, that's not us by 44 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: the way. Uh, there's really no line between life and 45 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: work anymore. Yeah. And on the gendered side of it too, 46 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: it it's really not dressing for a male gaze. Like 47 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: wearing my high tops and sweatshirt. I am not turning 48 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: heads except other girls heads to be like, where did 49 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: you get them? High tops? Those are cute? It looks 50 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: so comfortable, sensible, and so it's it's really interesting to 51 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: think of high fashion now um, really colliding with what 52 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: was more of the lure fashion. But first, let's talk 53 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: about at leisure. What is this thing at leisure? This 54 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 1: portmanteau of athletic. It's like benefits leisure. Beneferis Ben and Jennifer. 55 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: Who was that? First it was been Athleck and j 56 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: Lo and then rest in peace Jennifer Garner. She's not dead. 57 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: I just mean they're getting a divorce, Caroline. Yeah, rest 58 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: in peace to that marriage. Sorry, back to sweatpants. Yeah. 59 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: At leisure is basically the concept of dressing for the gym. 60 00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: If you want to be really cute when you go 61 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: to a gym, but actually going to the gym is 62 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: so optional. Yeah, oh, trust me, I have there have 63 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: been days where I'm like, you know, I've been cleaning 64 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: my apartment all day. I really need to go to 65 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: the grocery store, but I am gross looking, and I'm 66 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: not wearing makeup and I'm not about to put makeup on. 67 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: How can I go to the grocery store looking like 68 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: this and have it be socially acceptable? I know this 69 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: has literally happened more than once. Often I will put 70 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: on I'll change out of my like gross cleaning clothes 71 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: and put on like cuter yoga specific clothes and tennis 72 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: shoes and socks and be like, see, I just I 73 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: just came from the gym. Maybe at leisure it works 74 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: on so many levels. Um Vogue reported in October that 75 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: roughly half of the people buying activewear these days, so 76 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: you yoga pants and sports bra, zias and such, they're 77 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: buying it for non active use, such as go into 78 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: the grocery store. Yeah, everything that Stacy London would preach against. 79 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: I know. Oh Stacy London, where are you? We have 80 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: so many questions for you? Do you have so many 81 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: questions mostly about the singular pant. Yeah, the sweat pant, 82 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: yoga pant, Yes, pant. But I loved this. So Women's 83 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: Health noted that in yoga participation was up four point 84 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: five percent, not must day, but yoga, where sales were 85 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: up percent. We have a whole wardrobe. And I will confess, Caroline, 86 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: that I am consistently one of the worst dressed in 87 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: yoga because I cannot. I just don't have the disposal 88 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: income to buy all sorts of things. And I you know, 89 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: I probably should buy newer sports bras, but it's all 90 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: like I am in like pattered rags. Comparatively Cinderella. Yeah, 91 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: do these these women who come in with very cute ensembles. 92 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: That's the same way I my whether I'm doing yoga 93 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: or running or whatever, my uniform is T shirt probably 94 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: from some event that I went to and kneel link 95 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: yoga pants and sneakers, um, and so I am also 96 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: I basically I don't look like I'm a professional yoga doer. 97 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: Speaking though, of T shirts, Caroline, I don't know about you, 98 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: but one of my favorites to wear in yoga class 99 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: or working out is my w W g D T shirt, 100 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: which is what would Glory do. Gloria's dynam it makes 101 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: me feel empowered a little bit. Well, I'm working out, 102 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: you know, Kristen. One of my favorite shirts to work 103 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: out in is the Hey Lady's shirt featuring none other 104 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: than yours truly and also yours truly pointing at you, 105 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: that you can buy on our spreadshirt store. Do people 106 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: ever do double takes when they notice that you're wearing 107 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: your face on your your boobs? No? No, because I 108 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: guess it's a cartoon rendering, so so it's not as 109 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: clear it's our caricature faces. We both have giant Moses 110 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: and jims unrecognizable. Um. Well, back to at leisure? Can 111 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: we just talk about our faces on shirts for another 112 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: half hour? Um? Back to at leisure. Though there were 113 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: lots of different terms for it before the industry kind 114 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: of begrudgingly settled on at leisure. It's been called performance lifestyle. 115 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal called it convertible dressing, and my favorite, 116 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: some bloggers tried to call it the cozy boy movement 117 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: for guys, and g Q also tried to make sports 118 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: core happen. But no, no, no, no leisure. I'm sure 119 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: the people who call it sports Core also go to 120 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: CVS and buy the shower poof that's made specifically for men, 121 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: which is like a dollar cheaper than the regular shower poofs. 122 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: I'm not mad sports Core. I did post about it 123 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: on my Instagram though. Um, but it's not like this 124 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: is cheap. It's not like thing out of mainstream fashion 125 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: and wearing your yoga pants to be sports core is 126 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: a cheaper lifestyle. All you have to do for evidence 127 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: is visit Tory Birch's athletes are offshoot called Tory Sport 128 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: for avant and opre sport clothes. I love that. I 129 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: did not see the price, but saw that it offers 130 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: some pearl encrusted sneakers. I can't believe my mother hasn't 131 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: tried to make me buy those yet. Oh maybe I'll 132 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: drop a little friendly hint for the holidays. Kelly, don't 133 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: answer the phone and Kristen calls um, and we are 134 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: buying this stuff up like hotcakes. Forbes magazine recently reported 135 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: that US consumers spent three billion dollars on apparel, footwear, 136 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,719 Speaker 1: and accessories in which is only up one percent from 137 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: the previous year, But that one percent is a two 138 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: billion dollars worth one percent, so nothing to sneeze at, 139 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: and that money has only grown since. Well, I was 140 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: interested to see that this. I just figured the word 141 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: ath leisure, and the concept was new relatively if anything 142 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: ever knew anymore, Caral, I'm figuring out that it's not. 143 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: I thought it was really interesting that Miriam Webster actually 144 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: traced the first use of the potmanteau ath leisure to 145 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: a nineteen seventy nine issue of Nation's Business. In that article, 146 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: John Gibauer, who was the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association's director 147 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: of Advertising and Promotion at the time, said the booming 148 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: popularity of fitness has given birth to a similar boom 149 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: in apparel and footwear design for those who actually participate 150 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: in sports and those who just want to look as 151 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: if they do. The whole ath leisure, a new term 152 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: that's popped up market, is in a state of tremendous growth. 153 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: So the more things change, Christen, the more things change, 154 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: the more things change, the more we just revert to sweatsuits. Yeah, well, 155 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: at least we're not doing that. We I mean collectively, 156 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: and this is idealistic, but at least we're not doing 157 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: the whole juicy on the butt thing anymore, right, please? 158 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, that trend that was a high 159 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: school era trend for us where I remember my mother 160 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: was outrage at the idea of young women wearing slogans 161 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: on their behind. Well, I just I just think that 162 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: wearing like a pink terry cloth jumpsuit is none too flattering. 163 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: I had some of those terry cloth pants caroline nothing 164 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: on the butt, but they were an unfortunate shade of orange. 165 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: But we've definitely seen this fashion trend even before nineteen 166 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: seventy nine, this whole interplay of of how do we 167 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: blend our sporting life with our everyday life life. And 168 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: Britt Peterson broke this down in a fantastic Austin Globe 169 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: column where she notes that sporting specific clothes first appeared 170 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: in the Middle Ages, with things like gauntlets for falconry 171 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: and writing boots for writing things. Um, and there were 172 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: status symbols, not surprisingly because if you could afford to 173 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: not only have time to have these hobbies and then 174 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: also have these special things that you would wear while 175 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: doing them, that takes some money, I mean, and falconry 176 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: just period. I mean, the cost of entry is astonishing. 177 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: Now I wear my sports falcon everywhere. Yes, Um, what's 178 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: your sports falcon's name? Jim, Jim, Yeah, oh Jim. But 179 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: as we see sports develop as a thing like team 180 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: sports start to develop, custom athletic where evolves along with it, 181 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: and specifically though for the aristocratic among us, because it's 182 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: signals that you have time to play sports and that 183 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: you have the money to invest in what at the time, 184 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: we're often custom out fits. I mean, think about it. 185 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: In the late nineteenth century, you're seeing this boom in cycling, 186 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: in tennis, and for tennis, Oh God help you if 187 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: you're not wearing your adorable tennis whites. Yeah. And and 188 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: women need to move around to do both of these things, um. 189 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: And there is a growing aversion to wearing corsets and 190 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: more restrictive clothing as a result of that. So you 191 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: see the rise of sporting dresses and of course Bloomers, 192 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: which we've mentioned it's so often on the podcast. Um 193 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: Peterson though in The Boston Globe described Bloomers as quote 194 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: the yoga pants of the eighteen nineties, which that alone 195 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: justifies us doing this episode. If we can link Amelia 196 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: Bloomer and reform dressed and first wave feminism to yoga 197 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: pants today perfect and Amelia Bloomers sentiments about the need 198 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: for this bifurcated garment um. And in case you aren't 199 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: familiar with Bloomers, they are so a midcalf hammer pants, 200 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: and they're like hammer pants, but you would wear still 201 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: a skirt over them, but it would be a shorter skirt, 202 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: more knee length or midcalf, because come on, the lots 203 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: of room to let your knees breathe. Yes, yes, but 204 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: we're still ladies. But Bloomer said around eighteen fifty quote 205 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: as soon as it became known that I was wearing 206 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: the new dress, letters came pouring in upon me by 207 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: the hundreds from women all over the country, making inquiries 208 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: about the dress and asking for patterns, showing how ready 209 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: and anxious women were to throw off the burden of long, 210 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: heavy skirts. And to me, that's so echoes the ath 211 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: leisure relief of saying, oh, I can wear hi tops 212 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: to the office or out to dinner if I want 213 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: to instead of heels. Fantastic. Let us throw off our 214 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: burdensome garments and put on a sports bra. And we 215 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: moved into the twentieth century sports and leisure because more 216 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: fashionable with help from people like Coco Chanel and other 217 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: famous designers who reinvented sportswear, which is not just sportswear. 218 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: It could be activewear that you're wearing to be active 219 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: and do active things. It could be passive and that 220 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: you are a spectator of something active, or it could 221 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: just mean that you're flitting about town or driving out 222 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: to the country to to look at your horses. Yeah, 223 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: sportswear is not really not like running shoes and shorts. 224 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: It's more like a Michael Core's ensembles. I never I 225 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: never understood that as someone who's consumed women's magazines my 226 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: entire life. Basically like seeing pictures of like the Spring 227 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: sports where I'm like, they're wearing blazers. You can't play 228 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: sports in that you can't play bad men in a blazer. Um. 229 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: But speaking of bloomers, it is just a degree of 230 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: separation away from at leisure. Again, I clearly I'm very 231 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: obsessed with this link between nineteenth century bloomers and my 232 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: yoga classes today because they were actually between the two 233 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: um yoga bloomers. It's just like fun fact I was 234 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: trying to find the origin of yoga pants, because obviously 235 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: yogi's of old did not wear Lulu women yoga pants 236 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: for any kind of like spandex garment um. In the 237 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies though apparently, uh yogis in the US usually 238 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: wore T shirts and yoga bloomers which kind of look 239 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: like oversized diapers their shorts. But the hem is gathered 240 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: so that when you are doing your poses, you are 241 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: not exposing your genitals to the rest of the class. 242 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: Just just a considerate thing. Although I mean, like a 243 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: lot of yogi's will you know, if you're like really 244 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: hardcore about it, you'll do that naked. Um. But well, 245 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: I think it's funny then though that the l A 246 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: Times read about in that the quote once disparate worlds 247 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: of fashion and athletics have been on a convergence course 248 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: because it's obviously not news. It's obviously been happening since 249 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: Amelia Bluemer exactly. Um, but why though, but why now, 250 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: why are we all essentially wearing yoga pants all of 251 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: the time. Well, it took off in just to give 252 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: you a sense of like how quickly this happened, and 253 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: you did have like a lot of celebrity lead collaborations 254 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: like uh, Alexander wag and h and M Beyonce and 255 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: top shops. So at least it was brought to the masses. 256 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: But there obviously were some some background factors to this. 257 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: First of all, in early we had norm core becoming 258 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: mainstream that I'm sorry that hit too close to home 259 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: because that is how my mother dressed. I'm like, why 260 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: does every freaking hipster look like Sally circ It's driving 261 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: me crazy. The white reebox give it up. Well, if 262 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: not all that Caroline, it's not all norm core, Okay. 263 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: There's also the influence of Silicon Valley. I mean it's 264 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: essentially the tech casual wardrobe influence because there is no 265 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: more demarcation between between work and life because work is life, 266 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: especially if you are in any kind of tech related, 267 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: creative related industry whatsoever, or if you're Mark Zuckerberg, or 268 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: if you're Mark Zuckerberg. I mean that's the thing. Like, 269 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: is Mark Zuckerberg the original ath leisure evangelists. I'm pretty 270 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: sure at night when he is going to bed in 271 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: hands dips this hoodie, he just has another one underneath. 272 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: It's just flannel for like the jama material um. And 273 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: this is also reflected in this whole rise of wearable 274 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: tech too. Of course we're like strapping things on ourselves 275 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: to monitor are our heartbeat and how well we're sleeping 276 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: and how many cheetahs we just ate and whatever. And 277 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: it's something that g Q talked about an article they wrote, 278 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: It's time to start thinking of the clothes you. We're 279 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: not as fashion, but as tech. They are intuitive, modular, 280 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: and way outside the cubicle tools that keep you moving 281 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: on a friction less path forward. So what Mark Zuckerberg 282 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: would call a hoodie, right, or or if you make 283 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: enough money you can call it a hoodie. I would think. Yeah. 284 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: But since we're dressing at least like we are going 285 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: to work out, maybe before work or after work, does 286 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: this mean that our actual fitness consciousness is rising. We're 287 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: going to talk about that when we come right back 288 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: from a quick break. So, as we note at the 289 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: top of the podcast, a lot of people are at 290 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 1: least dressing like they're going to go to the gym, yeah, 291 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, and look cute while they're at the gym. 292 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: They could take a selfie at the gym and like 293 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: be proud of what they see because they're like matched 294 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: and it's you know they're cool zig zags on your 295 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: sports bras now, Um, but does that mean we are 296 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: actually paying, you know, more attention to our bodies and 297 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: exercising more. No, no, not necessarily. At the same time 298 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: that all of this athletic apparel sales has been on 299 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: the rise in the past five years, we've seen actual 300 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: participation in individual racket and team sports falling, and outdoor 301 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: water and fitness sports were also flat. That's coming from 302 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: Fast Company. We've also got the thing too in terms 303 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: of like fashion and body image of like fits bo 304 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: being a thing, and like thin and toned being an 305 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: ideal versus the nineties like thin and waify. So we 306 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: are like striving for a certain image even if we're 307 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: not actually working out or playing racquetball. And I was 308 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: surprised actually to see those numbers because I live near 309 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: a Pure bar, for instance, and every Saturday it is 310 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: packed to the gills. And it is also catty corner 311 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: to a Lulu Lemon, which is I feel like, very intentional, um. 312 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: And also too you you know, we recently heard about 313 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: the Soul Cycle I p O where we have this 314 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: mega franchise, So I mean I just assumed that, yeah, 315 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: we're all working out all the time, right, Not really, 316 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: I guess not. I'm buying into it. I'm being duped. 317 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: This is the trickery that Don Karen was talking about, 318 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: having him boast about. Yeah, she was saying that she 319 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: thinks it's dressing the part of fitness, so people will 320 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: just assume you're living a fit lifestyle regardless of whether 321 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: you actually are. Yeah. And and she, by the way, 322 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: is a fashion psychologist, which is an occupation that makes 323 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: total sense that it exists. But I did not know 324 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: it was a thing. I got a lot of questions 325 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: for a fashion psychologists, specifically, what do my overalls really 326 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: say about me? Well, I mean, but this isn't a 327 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: new thing either. I mean this goes back to your 328 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties tennis whites too, of like, look how much 329 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: money I have that I'm able to pay for these 330 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: custom fancy clothes. True? Um, And I mean part of 331 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: the appeal, obviously too, is the comfort. As someone at 332 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: Forbes wrote, comfort is queen with ath leisure clothing, because 333 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's an excuse to to really dress as 334 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: comfortably as we want. Yet another thing, Kristen, It's Stacy 335 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: London would smack down forcefully, because I mean, how many 336 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: episodes of What Not to Wear were people She's like, 337 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: why are you wearing that? And they're like, well, it's comfortable. 338 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: She's shaking her fist at them. But I would be 339 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: so curious to know whether Stacy London it proves at 340 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: least of the comfort being somewhat fashion forward and well fitting, 341 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: unlike someone just wearing, you know, an old T shirt 342 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: and sweat. I do wonder. I did wonder, literally, I 343 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: really did. I did wonder if stay Cee London and 344 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: other like fashion industry type commenting people are changing their 345 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: tunes somewhat on athletic apparel and comfortable apparel. What I'm 346 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: seeing are the guides now of how to take your 347 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: athletiure look from the office to happy hour. So it's 348 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: usually wearing like a stretchy pant with a blazer and 349 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: heels and and like a wedge yeah, and necklace. And 350 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: I mean it's still very expensive. It's not like it's 351 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: not like it's easier to dress necessarily and cut to 352 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: the chase just by sequin leggings perfect, and then it's 353 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: appropriate for all occasions. I'm just imagining how annoying. It 354 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: would be for me to hear, just like every time 355 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: I walk in my thighs right together, it's just sequin chafing. Kristen, 356 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: If you want me to stop wearing my wind suit 357 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: to the office, all you have to do is ask. 358 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: It's just it's a minor request. But even Vogue is 359 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: saying that maybe this is a statement that fashion has 360 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: become too fussy, at which point I'm like, well, what 361 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: is holy anymore? What is sacred? Yeah? I mean, and 362 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: speaking about her Tory Sport new store, Tory Birch told 363 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: Vogue quote, it really seemed like a change in the 364 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: way women we were dressing. I started to think, how 365 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: do we make this stuff chic? Again? What a lot 366 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: of sports brands miss? It's femininity unless it's a garish 367 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: femininity in the form of exposed body parts and neon colors. Heavens. So, 368 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: I mean that's the thing, though, I mean, you have 369 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: designers who are basically plucking up, you know, the sweatpants 370 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:41,479 Speaker 1: and remaking them to be chic. Now I'm being reminded 371 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: of how Kanye West started leather of sweatpants. But that's 372 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: the conversation for another time. Um, But you know what 373 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: I mean, Like, it's uh, it's not necessarily that it 374 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: might be comfortable, it might be more comfortable, but it's 375 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: not necessarily more accessible. Yeah. And I mean for some designers, 376 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: not all as we'll talk about just a second, but 377 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: for some designers, like, hey, as long as you're still 378 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: like visibly feminine, it's okay to wear a sweat pant. Yeah, 379 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: I mean. And and the company obviously that made this 380 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: their bread and butter straight to the bank is Lulu Lemon, 381 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: which was founded by Canadian Chip Wilson in and his intention, 382 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: as reported on in The New Yorker, was to set 383 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: out to make yoga close stylish enough to wear all day. 384 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: And yes, this is the same Chip Wilson who in 385 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: December had to step down as Lulu chairman because he 386 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: had a had a fat shamy excuse for that little 387 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: incident when some of their yoga pants had transparent crotches. 388 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: Made your happy babies a little bit r rated. You're 389 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: happy babies, happy baby? Yeah, so you it's a yoga post. 390 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: You lay on your back and you grab your feet. 391 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: I was like, what do you call your for China, Kristen, 392 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: not my happy baby, not my Happy Baby Caroline. Well, 393 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: Lululemon has seen a sixteen percent growth and sailed overall 394 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: despite share price drops after that whole see through Happy 395 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: Baby incident. Website sales this year are thirty one percent. 396 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: And it's funny that their sizing focuses on feel rather 397 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: than body shape. So are the fits. The fits are 398 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: named Hugged, Naked, relaxed, tight, and held in. Yes. And 399 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: speaking of the hugged, they as of this podcast recording, uh, 400 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: they just launched like some new I don't know if 401 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: it's a new line or what, but they described these 402 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: pants as being engineered to feel like a friend giving 403 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: you a close hug. Get off, get off me. I 404 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: was like, hey, I'm not a hugger. No, and especially 405 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: don't be hugging my legs and my butt would get 406 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: out of there. Why why would my friend be hugging 407 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: my thighs? So strange. Yeah, that's so strange that it 408 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: was circulating on like the fashion in women's blogs being like, uh, 409 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: Lulu Lemon, no, thank you. I've been in a Lululemon 410 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: once and I went in again. It was the thing 411 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: of like, oh, I need some yoga pants, Like this 412 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: is great, I'll go in here, and I literally did 413 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: the thing where because I can't help myself. Sometimes I 414 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: picked up a pair of pants and just started laughing 415 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: because they're so expensive. Oh yeah, I can't go in 416 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: It's I I cannot afford Lululemon hands down. And then 417 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: I had like a seven foot tall man wearing a 418 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: man bun who weighed approximately seven pounds look at me 419 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: and be like can I help you? And I'm like no, 420 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: obviously you can't. And then he started hugging your thighs 421 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: and you were like, get me out of here. Um. 422 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: But you also see this in companies like Adidas and 423 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: Nike taking advantage of this trend. Nike specifically has been 424 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: blowing out its athletes are offerings for women, including things 425 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: called the arrow React shirt that detects when you're about 426 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: to sweat and it'll loosen up a little bit. And 427 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: that is kind of cool. It is cool and weird. Um, 428 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: but yeah. Nike also their sales were up ten percent 429 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: over the year before under armours were up. Nike also 430 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: had a really successful hashtag better for It digital campaign 431 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: that wood fans with everyday women models instead of professional models, 432 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: and they're very optimistic that they're going to keep this 433 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: momentum going. They estimate that they can grow their women's 434 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: sales by to seven billion dollars. And Nike CEO Mark 435 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: Parker is so confident in this that at Women's Innovation 436 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: Summit and wait for this innovation friends, he said, quote, 437 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 1: leggings are the new denim, not jaggings, leggings. And so 438 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: that's the question. Like some people are saying, like yoga 439 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: pants are the new gene or should I say yoga 440 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: pants or the new gene? I mean, I know, I 441 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: know people I guess who wear leggings all the time 442 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: as pants. I'm wearing them right now, Caroline, Well, but 443 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: your yours look more. Let's be honest, your legging pants 444 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: look more like pants than leggings just because they're stretching. 445 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: You're also wearing a blousey shirt. It's a buffalo check. 446 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: Your Beyonce would be so proud. Um. I also just 447 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: bought a plaid shirt the other day. We should wear 448 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: them on the same thing. Yeah, we often do. It's weird. Um, 449 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: It's like our plaids are sinking up. Um, But gaps 450 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: athleta pants are also nipping at sales of their genes. 451 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: According to Forbes. And like I said, I am that 452 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: person who has nearly switched over from Gap to Athleta, 453 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: mainly because Gap is just not that inspired anymore. I 454 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: don't think we've ever talked this much on the podcast 455 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: about how we dress. I wonder if listeners are like, 456 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: they wear what high top? Who unsubscribed? But the thing 457 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: is in the workplace at leisure could become the new 458 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: power suit? What shoulder pads? Yes? Uh no, No. This 459 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,479 Speaker 1: was something explored in a paper from the Harvard Business 460 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: School called the Red Sneakers Effect Inferring status and competence 461 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: from signals of non conformity. And basically what these researchers 462 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: found was that non conforming behavior such as wearing a 463 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: hoodie or a high top in a workplace environment can 464 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: signal higher status so long as it's done intentionally. And 465 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: this is what they call the red sneaker effect. So 466 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg, for instance, and his trademark hoodie does have 467 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: a red sneaker effect because he's like, hey, y'all, I'm 468 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: crazy successful and I'm just gonna wear a hoodie to 469 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: work because that's what I'm comfortable in. Yeah, it's it's 470 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: basically a prerequisite that you must be powerful. I'm confident 471 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,479 Speaker 1: this must be coming from a place so I not 472 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: only I give no hoots, but also that you have 473 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: the status and stature to back it up. It's a 474 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: type of conspicuous consumption. The author's right, and it's a 475 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,959 Speaker 1: status symbol among Silicon Valley executives well, and they use 476 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: the example two of going into a high end store 477 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: in say you're yoga pants and sneakers and actually getting 478 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: better service because of it, because it looks like, oh, 479 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: you just you know, you're just running errands about your day. 480 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: You know, it just came from the gym, so it 481 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: looks like an intentional kind of thing. Although I'm the opposite. 482 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: If I end up going into a store when I'm 483 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: fresh from a workout, I don't want anyone to talk 484 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: to me. And well, mainly because, as my mother pointed out, 485 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: my entire life, if I'm not wearing blusher, I look 486 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: a little dead. So I'm sure sales p boll tend 487 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: to avoid me because they're like, the zombie apocalypse is 488 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: begun and it's and it's wearing ath leisure. I'm just 489 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: imagining you with like the clown clown cheet crying and 490 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: I apply a wind suit. Um. But I wonder though, 491 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: in the real world whether the ath leisurely dressed dude 492 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: in the workplace would be judge the same as an 493 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: athlete's really dressed woman, or maybe I should put that opposite, like, 494 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: like do women would women benefit from that status bump 495 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: of dressing down versus dressing up? Because I mean, just 496 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: what it made me think of was a contrast between 497 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: and this might just be personal style, but the contrast 498 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: between Mark Zuckerberg hoodie and Cheryl Sandberg always in like 499 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: a very smart dress suit blouse. Well, that actually makes 500 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: me think of one particular job that will go and 501 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: name too that I used to have, um where extreme 502 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: like dedication that some coworkers had to dressing up for 503 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: work was more for each other. And I'm speaking of 504 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: women specifically, Like yeah, the guys work ties and button 505 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: up shirts whatever, but like the women that I worked 506 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: around were always like so impeccably dressed. I was not. 507 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: I didn't have the status to back up my nonconformity, 508 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: but but I was nonconforming. Um, And so I don't 509 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, because it's more like it seems like 510 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: women in the workplace or more dressing up for themselves 511 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: and each other. That's true. I catch myself doing that sometimes. 512 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I do have a desk next to you, 513 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: Caroline So, and you're like, how do I top the 514 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: wind suit that she wears? Tiny top hat? Done, Holly 515 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: of stuff you missed in history class does have a 516 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: tiny top hat. But she received from a listener. Oh 517 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: and it you can put per few minute. Yeah, handy, 518 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: I'll stand by the mailbox. Listeners will be waiting. Although 519 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: maybe instead of perfume, if it could just be a 520 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: snack power Yeah, yeah, I know you're on my wavelength. Congress, 521 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: We've got a couple of things in common. We both 522 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: love snacks and wind suits. But back to the wind 523 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: suits and gender, there's a question of whether this signals 524 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,959 Speaker 1: a fashion move away from binary gender because a lot 525 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: of these athleture styles are pretty unisex um. Ruth Laferla, 526 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: writing at New York Times, described how Spring Fashion Week 527 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: was marked by quote that deliberate erosion on the runways 528 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: of a once rigid demarcation between conventionally feminine and masculine clothes. Yeah. 529 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: I think they cited Kanye's stuff, right, Yeah, the easy 530 00:33:54,920 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: line is very loose, uh, monochromatic, and would look basically 531 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: the same on a guy or a girl. Yeah, so 532 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: there seems to be this trend in some sports where 533 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: obviously not things like Tory Birch, but in some sports 534 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: where that unisex is hit. Basically you're taking the gender 535 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: cues out of the merchandizing. Like literally some stores like 536 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: Don't Have You know, like this is the women's section 537 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: over here, um, and they're leaving it up to just 538 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: what the individual shopper wants to where and and to me, 539 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: this kind of almost makes sense. It's like when you 540 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: think about some of the younger fashion designers today, it's 541 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: like they're just art kids, you know, art school kids. 542 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: And I'm absolutely not saying that in a dismissive way. 543 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm saying this with full love and respect to the like, Yeah, 544 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: maybe there's just a wave of younger generation fashion designers 545 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: who were like, screw all of your gender norms, and 546 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: while we want you to pay for our clothes that 547 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: we made, like, screw all of this materialism that circulates 548 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: around these gender divisions that we just don't need. Well, 549 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: because how often too have we seen men's wear being 550 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: slightly recut for women to wear. I mean, I am, 551 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: I am essentially wearing men's wear right now. I'm wearing 552 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: an oversized buttoned down plaid shirt. My Beyonce actually asked 553 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: me Caroline if it was because he has a very similar, 554 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: similarly printed button down shirt. Kristen Conger, have you had 555 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: your engagement photos made yet? By any chance? I am 556 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: waiting for the day when we both walk out in 557 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: basically the identical shirt and he will hate it and 558 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: I will love it. Now my boyfriend I we both 559 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: wear gray V neck T shirts all the time. So yeah, 560 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: I mean like it's it's not like I mean, the 561 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: demarcation that's been there has basically been imposed by brands 562 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: and designers, probably to sell more clothes and also too 563 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 1: depending on the fit, so that will it will fit 564 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 1: out things like our boobs and hips and butts better. 565 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 1: But you're now seeing designers like Baja East and sixty 566 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: nine and stores entire stores like Acne and Assembly New 567 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: York that are making identical clothes for everybody, but maybe 568 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: just cutting them a little bit differently. So again you 569 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: can have more of a feminine fit if you want it. 570 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: But they also will have unisex sections. Well, so it's 571 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: athletes you're freeing us. Are we being liberated, Kristen? Can 572 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: we run out in the street and celebrate. I want 573 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: to say that we are being liberated, um to a degree, 574 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: But it's not like our wallets are being liberated. It's 575 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: not like the rules for dressing are going away, because 576 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: you still have so many designers telling us the right 577 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: way to wear our high tops. Yeah, and I'm still 578 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: on Pinterest, like I tell Kristin earlier, like how do 579 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: I put now fits together? I don't know? Humans do it? 580 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: How do they do it? Yeah? And this also reflects 581 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: to something that Amelia Bloomer of bloom or Fame once 582 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: said it. She said, quote, the costume of women should 583 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: be suited to her wants and necessities. It should conduce 584 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: at once to her health, comfort, and usefulness. And while 585 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: it should not fail also to conduce to her personal adornment, 586 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: it should make that end of secondary importance. So basically like, 587 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: let's wear clothes that allow us to live our lives. 588 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: And to an extent, I think that at leisure is 589 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: a sign of us doing it. But I mean, I 590 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: don't want to necessarily say that it's liberating because it's 591 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: still this massive industry that people are just grabbing money from, 592 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: So you wouldn't say it's like the modern version of 593 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: her form dress. I think that. I think yes and no. 594 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: I think there's a little bit of that. I think 595 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: it's a little too soon to tell, maybe because the 596 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: trend it still is new. I do think it's here 597 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: to stay for at least a while. But we're going 598 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: to swing back to more feminine cuts at some point 599 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: because that's how fashion is. That is how fashion is. 600 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: I mean, we're always going to want comfortable clothes that 601 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: has not changed, that will never change. Um. But you're right, 602 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: I think that you would be foolish to think that, 603 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: like suddenly, at leisure as a thing is going to 604 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: dominate fashion from here on out, forever and ever, and 605 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: then we're going to start wearing just like snuggies to 606 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: work every day, although our office is cold enough that 607 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind one. But I do think that it 608 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: is a shift away from dressing for male gaze to 609 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: dressing actually for more of a female gaze, because what 610 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: I see now in the way a girl's dressed, like 611 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: you said, in the case of your old co workers, 612 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: it's more to delight their girlfriends than to hunt for boyfriends. 613 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: And that means something different to different people. For that 614 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: particular group of women, the status and the being pleasing 615 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: to the eye and all of that stuff revolved around 616 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: a very certain set of clothes that were more on 617 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: like the pencil skirt end of the spectrum. And that's fine, 618 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: and they looked all they looked amazing. But I'm sure 619 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,919 Speaker 1: for another group of women at a different workplace where 620 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: there wasn't a dress code or as strict of address code. Um, 621 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: maybe not a snuggy workplace, but it would be different. 622 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: That would mean something different to those women. Yeah, I 623 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: mean the shift away from just overt sexiness and the 624 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: way that we usually think of it is interesting. And 625 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: this reminds me that, uh, one of my best friends 626 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: and my sister and I now all have the exact 627 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: same pair of Nike high tops and I love it. 628 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: It's like a little club. Yeah, well I love my 629 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: A six Caroline. No, No, they aren't Nike high tops. No, 630 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: how is it's Tiger? Is it on? Its supa? I 631 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: don't even know. I can't actually read. It's a real embarrassing. 632 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: I do like your a six. Well, now, what do 633 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: we want to know from listeners about Ethlet you share, Caroline, 634 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 1: do you wear it? Have you been shamed for it? 635 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: Do you feel less shamed for it recently? Yeah? My 636 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: plan is to take full advantage of the trend because 637 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,879 Speaker 1: also I'm a tall woman and I appreciate being quote 638 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: unquote allowed to wear flats out if I want to. 639 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: I used to catch flak for more fashionable friends of 640 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,839 Speaker 1: mine for not wearing heels all the time, partially because 641 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: I did not want to be six two and towering 642 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: over everyone else. Which time and place, it's great, Yes, 643 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: um so I like that. I like the comfort element. 644 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: Winter is coming, I can wear my sweatshirts. You're right, 645 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: game of trends is about to come back, that's true. 646 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: Um so yeah, I think I'm I'm kind of full 647 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: throttle at leisure, but to a limit. I'm not going 648 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,879 Speaker 1: to buy any pearl encrusted sneakers or anything like that. 649 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: I'll return just you wait, Sally might get you son, Caroline. 650 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be suppressed, but I am curious to know 651 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: from listeners to if it feels like we're dressing ourselves, 652 00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: especially as women in a more US centric kind of 653 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: way dressing for ourselves rather than especially to be sexy ladies. 654 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure part of it is dressing for ourselves. 655 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: And I love wearing that sweatshirt thing because it's so 656 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: soft and comfy and I can dress it mostly down. Uh, 657 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: But so much of it too is just people being like, oh, 658 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: this is a thing. Now I'm going to do this. 659 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,439 Speaker 1: Just like anything with fashion, there's gonna be people too 660 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: when super like feminine, close cut fitted outfits come back 661 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 1: around that are going to be like, oh, thank thank goodness, 662 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: I can be myself because everybody has a thing. Yeah. 663 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: I mean that's the one thing we definitely did not 664 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: get into is how you know body types with ath leisure, Like, 665 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,720 Speaker 1: I don't know that it is a trend for every body. 666 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 1: It does seem to be promoting a very specific beauty 667 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: ideal that is that more fits bo soul cycle, muscular. 668 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: But sure, and I mean I think it's just fashion 669 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: catching up to some people and leaving behind others. Mean, 670 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: I've worn I've had those a six forever, Like I've 671 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: always worn sneakers with jeans and stuff like that, um 672 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: into power suits and and my power suits. I mean 673 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: so many shoulder pads in my yoga clothes. Yeah, it's 674 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: just for you know, shoulder stand extra padding. Well, listeners, 675 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: send us your thoughts mom Stuff at house Stuff works 676 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,240 Speaker 1: dot Com is our email address. You can also tweet 677 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: us at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And 678 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,719 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you. 679 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: And we come right back from a quick break, Caroline. 680 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: We know that people will do whatever it takes to 681 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: make sure businesses run efficiently and constant trips to the 682 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: post office. That ain't the way to do it. But 683 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,760 Speaker 1: with stamps dot Com you'll be able to spend less 684 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: time at the old post office and more time growing 685 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: your business. Because with stamps dot com, mailing and shipping 686 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: is easy. Your own computer and printer can buy in 687 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: print official US postage for any letter and any package. 688 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: Stamps dot Com does all the thinking for you and 689 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: right now. If you sign up for stamps dot com 690 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 1: and use our promo code stuff, you get a special offer. 691 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: It's a four week trial plus a one dollar bonus 692 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: software that includes postage in a digital scale. So don't wait. 693 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: Got to stamps dot com before you do anything else. 694 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,280 Speaker 1: Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage 695 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: and type in stuff that's stamps dot com enter stuff 696 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 1: and now back to the show. Well, we have a 697 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: couple of letters here about our waitressing episode. This one's 698 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,359 Speaker 1: from Jackie. She says, thank you for your podcast about 699 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,359 Speaker 1: waitress thing. I am an actor slash actress and I 700 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: was on my supplementary job hunt again today. I kept 701 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: on wrestling with myself to apply as a server, to 702 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: go into places where the big tips are made and 703 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: get a quick cash kind of job. But it made 704 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 1: me feel a bit sad and sick. I couldn't really 705 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 1: explain it to myself. Sexism was on my mind, and 706 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: as I bicycled around Toronto, I felt so trapped by 707 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: the idealism of what I should be doing and the 708 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: reality I was faced with. The norm for someone in 709 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: my situation would be to make big tips at night 710 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: and audition for TV during the day. I thought of 711 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,600 Speaker 1: my old hosting hostessing job at a fancy French restaurant 712 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: where the uniform included red lipstick and flowing black skirts. 713 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 1: I had to justify to myself why I had needed 714 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 1: to quit. It took me time to remember how inadequate 715 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 1: and fake I had felt flirting with a wealthy clientele, 716 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 1: and how I flushed red when my boss called women girls. 717 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: We were trained to be craft like in our positions 718 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: and told that we would move up to be servers 719 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: or ten bar. We were very good at our jobs 720 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: and used our beautiful personalities. That's in quotes with success. 721 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 1: I only saw men tend the bar, and then I 722 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: saw newly employed men on bar, and none of us 723 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: girls hostessing were ever invited to be servers. The server 724 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,839 Speaker 1: assistance were all men bus boys. The men employed by 725 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 1: the restaurant were on average tend to fifteen years older 726 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: than the women slash girls. The job wasn't unbearable in 727 00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: its function, but the system made me uncomfortable. It was 728 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,839 Speaker 1: great to listen to your podcast. It helps me make 729 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: sense of things when I can understand my perceptions in 730 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: context with history and culture. The serving industry has been 731 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: something which seems so defined in a system that has 732 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,360 Speaker 1: remained so the same. I loved hearing about how the 733 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: stems of its culture in North America are from the 734 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 1: wild West. Thank you for your research and conversation, and 735 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: thank you for your letter. Jackie Well. I've got a 736 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 1: letter here from Kelly and she writes, I loved the 737 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 1: waitressing episode. I never thought about the history behind waitressing, 738 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: so I found a lot of this fascinating. Nor did 739 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,880 Speaker 1: I realize that there's so much controversy about the different 740 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: aspects of waitressing. One thing that definitely stuck out to 741 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: me was how people look down on waitresses. When I 742 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: was a freshman in college and my roommate was looking 743 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: for a job, her parents wouldn't let her get a 744 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: job as a waitress because they saw that as beneath 745 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 1: her as someone who had only worked in a restaurant. 746 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: I was shocked. A friend of mine chose not to 747 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: go to college and was waitressing part time at a 748 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: different restaurant than the one I worked in. Because it 749 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: was small, she could easily be the only waitress working 750 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: and would earn quite a bit and tips. As time 751 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,799 Speaker 1: went on, people began to ask her how long she 752 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: was going to work as a waitress. Feeling the negativity, 753 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,760 Speaker 1: she began working as a secretary in a doctor's office. 754 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,719 Speaker 1: She told me later that while it was nice to 755 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: dress up for work, she wasn't making as much money 756 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: in the office as she did as a waitress. The 757 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,400 Speaker 1: restaurant I worked at was not high end, but a 758 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 1: busy tourist location, and on a good night, waitresses could 759 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,440 Speaker 1: take home several hundred dollars on summer nights. As far 760 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 1: as harassment, even though I was never a waitress, I 761 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: was still told to smile, mostly by older men, which 762 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: was incredibly creepy. I look young for my age, so 763 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,799 Speaker 1: that was frequently a question. Probably the worst interaction I 764 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 1: had with a mail customer was when he asked me, 765 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 1: does your boyfriend think you're cute? I responded, I don't 766 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,760 Speaker 1: have a boyfriend, and then he wondered, well, what's wrong 767 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 1: with you? I think I asked him how it was 768 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: my fault, but I've never forgiven an awful question. I 769 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 1: hope to not need to waitress in my life or 770 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: cater anymore weddings, but if I need to, I certainly 771 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't mind. And all those years only instilled in me 772 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 1: how hard it can be to work in a restaurant 773 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: and that things sometimes just go wrong, and I've become 774 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: much more understanding about things that happen when I go 775 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: out to eat. So thanks Kelly, and thanks to all 776 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: of the present and past servers that we've been hearing from. 777 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:20,239 Speaker 1: Your stories have been rolling in and we appreciate them. 778 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,160 Speaker 1: We appreciate all of your letters Mom, Stuff and how 779 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,320 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot Com is where you can send them 780 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: and for links to all of our social media as 781 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including 782 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,279 Speaker 1: this one with links to our sources. So you can 783 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,400 Speaker 1: learn more about at leisure. Head on over to stuff 784 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:43,360 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for moralns and thousands 785 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: of other topics. 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