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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. This is

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Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And it's Saturday. I

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Speaker 1: guess it's Christmas Day. Maybe it is Christmas, Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so this this episode originally aired on December. It was

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Speaker 1: about a holiday associated inventions. Yeah, yeah, and you know, Joe,

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Speaker 1: Merry Christmas, Oh, Merry Christmas to you. Welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind production of My Heart Radio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say that it's almost Christmas time, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly what day this episode is going to be airing.

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Speaker 1: We haven't fully worked that out yet. So it's sometime

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Speaker 1: within a couple of weeks of Christmas, right, well Christmas Day,

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Speaker 1: but certain it falls within the month of December or

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Speaker 1: like the three month radius of surrounding December. So it's Christmas.

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Speaker 1: It's the holidays. Bells will be ringing, meaning doorbells with

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Speaker 1: deliveries because that's uh, that's the kind of Christmas that's

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Speaker 1: going on this year. Yep, yep. A supply chain straining

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Speaker 1: holiday season. Yes, um so, yeah, you wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about some Christmas related inventions, and I gotta say we

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Speaker 1: turned up some surprisingly weird and funny stuff on this subject.

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Speaker 1: I was pleasantly surprised with where this went. Yeah. Last

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Speaker 1: year in the Invention feed Back when Invention was its

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Speaker 1: own podcast, we focused on some popular toys, where they

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Speaker 1: came from, how they were invented, things that went under

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Speaker 1: the tree. This year, all of the inventions were discussing

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Speaker 1: are things that go on the tree? Which is uh

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Speaker 1: and and yeah these It turned out to be quite interesting.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a tree up right now, Joe? We do.

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Speaker 1: It is fake. It is made primarily of petroleum products.

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Speaker 1: So uh, what was once ancient organisms floating in the

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Speaker 1: seas have settled down and become oil and now they

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Speaker 1: are plastic and they're in my home and they make

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Speaker 1: it festive. Oh nice, Well, we too have our tree

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Speaker 1: up It is a a live tree, or at least

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Speaker 1: one that was was alive at some point and it

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Speaker 1: was cut free from the earth and uh so yeah,

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Speaker 1: now it is in my living room and I run

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Speaker 1: a hose in from outside to give it more water

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Speaker 1: every day or so were you always a live tree person?

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Speaker 1: Or was that a transition. I've just always been a

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Speaker 1: fake tree family my whole life. We were always a

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Speaker 1: live tree family, and we would do this thing. I

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Speaker 1: think this is something my family picked up in Canada

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Speaker 1: and then continued to do, and that is for a

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Speaker 1: for the the tree stand. Instead of having an actual

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Speaker 1: tree stand, we had a bucket of rocks. So you'd

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Speaker 1: put the tree stump in the bucket and then you

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Speaker 1: put big sizeable rocks around it, you know, to fill

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Speaker 1: it up, but there's still space for water, and then

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Speaker 1: we'd pour water are in and uh, I think we

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Speaker 1: did that till one year the tree tipped over and

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Speaker 1: rocks and water went everywhere, and then they decided, well,

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Speaker 1: let's let's see about getting an art official tree, and

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Speaker 1: then they made the switch. But uh, I've done both

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Speaker 1: here in my own household. Um. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a trade off, right because the there's a

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Speaker 1: nice smell to the to the fresh cut tree. Um,

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Speaker 1: But then you have to pick up the needles, you

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Speaker 1: have to inevitably do a little song on it to

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Speaker 1: make it function in your house. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: I can go either way. I think conceptually, I'm very

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Speaker 1: much a live tree person. I've just never in actuality

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Speaker 1: been one. That's that's the power of habit and the

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Speaker 1: power of family tradition. Right, Like, if you were to

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Speaker 1: present me these options afresh, as if you know I'd

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Speaker 1: never celebrated Christmas before, I would definitely go live tree.

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Speaker 1: But now I think I'm gonna be plastic to the grave.

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Speaker 1: I used to like the idea of doing a small

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Speaker 1: tree because if you do a small little tree, it's

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Speaker 1: less less work, right, But now we have all of

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Speaker 1: the is We've accumulated all of these these family heirloom decorations,

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Speaker 1: so you know, we've got to put those on the trees.

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Speaker 1: You gotta have a large enough tree to hold them.

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Speaker 1: That's a very good points as the ornaments that come

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Speaker 1: as Christmas gifts that people give you when they don't

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Speaker 1: know what else to give you for Christmas, as they

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Speaker 1: accumulate over the seasons, they really do start weighing down

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Speaker 1: those branches. Alright. So, like I said, everything that we're

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Speaker 1: discussing this episode, all the inventions are things that go

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Speaker 1: on a Christmas tree. So we really need to lay

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Speaker 1: the groundwork, especially for our first invention, Christmas tree lights,

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Speaker 1: electric Christmas tree lights. Now we always discussed what came before. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we have to talk about just the

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Speaker 1: origin of the Christmas tree as much as we understand it. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: if a couple of different ways to consider this. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can think about the the use of control fire

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Speaker 1: itself for ceremonial purposes. Uh, this has a role in

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Speaker 1: every culture. But here we're talking more specifically about the

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Speaker 1: use of illumination technology combined with the form of a

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Speaker 1: tree or an actual tree. Now, I know I read

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Speaker 1: a legendary account. Something tells me this this might not

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Speaker 1: be necessarily true, but a legendary account involving Martin Luther

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Speaker 1: and the origins of lighting up a Christmas tree. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: so this story, I guess would post date the invention

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Speaker 1: of the Christmas tree itself because it assumes there's already

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Speaker 1: a tree inside the house. But the story is that

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Speaker 1: Martin Luther is out wandering one night, you know, the

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Speaker 1: Protestant reformer Martin Luther. I'm sure he's uh, he's composing

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Speaker 1: in his mind some extremely scatological screed against the pope,

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Speaker 1: and then he's wandering and he sees trees, and he

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Speaker 1: sees the stars, behind the trees twinkling and shining through

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Speaker 1: the branches, and he's like, oh, how could I recreate

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Speaker 1: that at home? And the idea he comes up with is, well,

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Speaker 1: let's put a bunch of candles in the branches of

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Speaker 1: this evergreen. Yeah. It's a beautiful story, but as far

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Speaker 1: as I can tell, it's just a story, just made up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: much like another story, another myth concerning St. Boniface thwarting

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Speaker 1: a pagan ceremony and somehow turning it into a Christmas tree. Again.

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Speaker 1: You know, it makes for a cool origin story, but

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Speaker 1: there's nothing to it now. There's certainly you get into

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Speaker 1: the myth making about the origin of the Christmas tree.

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Speaker 1: Like Another thing to keep in mind is that we

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Speaker 1: have a lot of what you can think of as

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Speaker 1: auxiliary traditions. Uh. For instance, in England, prior to the

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Speaker 1: use of Christmas trees, there were fifteenth and sixteenth century

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Speaker 1: traditions involving bringing holly and ivy in during the winter

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Speaker 1: and doing things with holly and ivy. They are dreadic

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Speaker 1: traditions concerning mistletoe and we've explored those on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Before the winter may Pole tradition has also some similarities

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Speaker 1: according to historians. Yeah, the general ideas that you could

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Speaker 1: find something that was green in the wintertime, some kind

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Speaker 1: of evergreen branch, you know, if it was pine needles

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Speaker 1: or or holly or something, and you'd bring that into

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Speaker 1: the home around the winter solstice, and the green decoration

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Speaker 1: would help distress the family from the barren misery that

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Speaker 1: is winter time. But Christmas tree traditions themselves where you'd

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Speaker 1: actually cut down an evergreen tree and then bring it

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Speaker 1: inside the house or at least put it somewhere near

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Speaker 1: the house or in the barn or in the home. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That appears to begin among German speaking people's maybe around

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Speaker 1: the sixteenth century. That again, it's a little complicated because

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Speaker 1: that seems to emerge from similar older traditions. But but

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Speaker 1: the Christmas tree itself looks like it it comes around

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Speaker 1: the fifteen hundreds. And this was not the only Christmas

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Speaker 1: decoration tradition among German speaking people's at the time. Another

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Speaker 1: German classic was what came to be known as the

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Speaker 1: Christmas pyramid. Though this name comes after Napoleon's adventures in Egypt. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's not strictly a pyramid like the ones at Giza,

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Speaker 1: you've seen this before. It's sort of a tapering miniature

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Speaker 1: tower with platforms populated by angels with trumpets and other

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Speaker 1: critters of that stripe. It's a little I arama, okay,

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Speaker 1: I you know, I don't know that I've seen this.

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Speaker 1: I think I've seen pyramid type constructions where they use points,

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Speaker 1: setta plants and kind of arrange them like that. But

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Speaker 1: I think one thing you could do when you're building

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Speaker 1: your Christmas pyramid is put some evergreen branches on it,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of spruce it up and like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's maybe it's not winter. Here's something green. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: then of course U slay all the servants who helped

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Speaker 1: you erect it and placed them under the under the pyramid,

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Speaker 1: right scoop the brains out of the angels through the nose.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Oh man, you know, an an ancient Egyptian

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Speaker 1: themed Christmas tree would actually be quite lovely. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if you would put at the top, maybe a cyrus.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you could put in the sun disc. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's there's so much you could do. Now I want

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Speaker 1: to make one, except that I would not be permitted

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Speaker 1: to do that. Now I was looking more into the

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Speaker 1: the history here the tree, and you pointed to the

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Speaker 1: sixteenth century origins in Germany, and certainly that seems to

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Speaker 1: be when it was. We can really point to it

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Speaker 1: and say, like, here is the Christmas tree tradition in action.

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Speaker 1: But I was also reading from a book by Judith Flanders,

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Speaker 1: Christmas Say Biography. She's a historian and writer with a specialty.

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Speaker 1: Her main especially, I think, is Victorian history, and she

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Speaker 1: says that we can we can think of of many

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Speaker 1: of these earlier traditions as again precursors to the Christmas Tree,

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Speaker 1: and an association that had been forged between winter traditions

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Speaker 1: and the tree we're already growing around this time, especially

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Speaker 1: in Germany. The origins, she says, seemed to take us

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Speaker 1: back to the early fifteenth century. In Germany, there are

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Speaker 1: records of a fourteen nineteen decorated tree in Freiburg decorated

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Speaker 1: with apples, flower paste wafers, tinsel and gingerbread flower paste wafers.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, so Flanders points to documented traditions of paradise

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Speaker 1: plays performed at the time and performed around Christmas. They

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Speaker 1: use that would have used an evergreen fur with apples

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Speaker 1: tied to their branches in place of the Tree of

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Speaker 1: Knowledge a k a. The Tree of the Knowledge of

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Speaker 1: Good and Evil, which of course is important to Judeo

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Speaker 1: Christian traditions and tied to the world tree myths in general. Right,

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Speaker 1: So in the Paradise play, this would be reproducing the

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Speaker 1: the the myth of the Garden of Eden, where Eve

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Speaker 1: is tempted by the serpent to eat of the Tree

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Speaker 1: of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which Adam and

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Speaker 1: Eve have been forbidden from from partaking of. They can

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Speaker 1: eat of the Tree of life, and that you know,

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Speaker 1: live forever, but they can't know what's right and wrong.

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Speaker 1: And and once they eat of the fruit, then they

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Speaker 1: realize they're naked, and all kinds of bad stuff happens.

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Speaker 1: God gets very angry. Yeah, it's a it's a whole scene,

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Speaker 1: trust me. But at any rate that this would have

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Speaker 1: been a tree standing in to represent that mythic tree,

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Speaker 1: and the decorations would have included wool thread against straw apples,

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Speaker 1: things like nuts and pretzels and yeah, pretzels, which makes sense, right,

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Speaker 1: You can make things out of pretzels, make curious shapes

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Speaker 1: and all. It sounds good and also feels authentically German.

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Speaker 1: This brings up a question I was talking about with

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Speaker 1: Rachel recently, and something about this has me still a

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Speaker 1: little bit steaming. Are you not supposed to eat a

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Speaker 1: gingerbread house. I'm getting mixed signals about what the whole

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Speaker 1: deal with the gingerbread house is, because if you're not

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Speaker 1: supposed to eat it, why are you making it entirely

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Speaker 1: out of edible foods? Uh? I guess that's a redundancy

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Speaker 1: out of edible things. And if you are supposed to

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Speaker 1: eat it, why is it treated I don't know. I'm

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Speaker 1: very confused. Well, I guess part of it is that

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Speaker 1: it's not just you know, cookier cake, it's load bearing

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Speaker 1: cookier cake. Right. Um, yeah, I was always told you

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Speaker 1: were making a gingerbread house, but you can't eat it

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Speaker 1: because the gingerbread is obviously just sitting out on the

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Speaker 1: table and is not fit for consumption at this point.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you turn the lights off at night,

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Speaker 1: you go to bed and you nestle in, You nestle

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Speaker 1: in and get all cozy. The roaches come out. They

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Speaker 1: crawl all over the gingerbread house, so they eat little

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Speaker 1: bits off of it, and then they scurry away in

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Speaker 1: the morning. So if you go and take a bite,

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Speaker 1: just know who you're eating after exactly. Yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: all a good reason not to trust it, unless I

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Speaker 1: guess you're very controlling with your gingerbread house. It goes

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Speaker 1: into the refrigerator when you're not using it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I could see that as working, and that could be fun.

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Speaker 1: But otherwise, you don't eat the house. You eat the men.

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Speaker 1: You eat the gingerbread men. Voiced by Gary Busey. Yeah, alright,

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Speaker 1: So this tree is becomes popular, In fact, it becomes

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Speaker 1: so popular it outlasts the popularity of these paradise plays,

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Speaker 1: and it becomes this holiday tradition. It is the it

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Speaker 1: is the Christmas tree. It is the the vi Knox bomb.

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Speaker 1: So Flanders right, So the oldest Christmas tree market was

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Speaker 1: apparently in Strassburg, just over the current German border in

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Speaker 1: France in the seventeenth century, and Flanders points to the

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Speaker 1: first decorated indoor Christmas tree as being is being tied

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Speaker 1: to sixteen o five. Again, the decorations seemed to include

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Speaker 1: things like apples and sweets, and they became quite popular

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Speaker 1: in the straws Burg region with Actually there were fifteenth

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Speaker 1: century laws put in place at one point to limit

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Speaker 1: the number of trees per household. Oh, this is not

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Speaker 1: the last place we're going to encounter laws regulating Christmas trees. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean people, you know, they get upset about the

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Speaker 1: War on Christmas, but wars must be waged against Christmas

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Speaker 1: to keep it from getting out of control, because it will.

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Speaker 1: This is a centuries long tradition. Yeah. Now, speaking of

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Speaker 1: of the traditions though, uh, you know, we we often

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Speaker 1: especially here in the United States, uh, and and certainly

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Speaker 1: in England, you think of it as being you know,

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Speaker 1: firmly rooted in English speaking people's right, But the tradition

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Speaker 1: didn't actually travel from Germany to England un till the

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Speaker 1: final quarter of the eighteenth century. Flanders points to the

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Speaker 1: Gurton novel The Sorrows of Young Worther from seventeen seventy four,

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Speaker 1: which was translated into English and includes a description of

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Speaker 1: a tree not only with organic decorations, but with lights.

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Speaker 1: So I had to I had to look it up,

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Speaker 1: and you can find this text in full on the internet.

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Speaker 1: In but it here's the juicy part. Quote. He began

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Speaker 1: talking of the delight of the children and of that

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Speaker 1: age when the sudden appearance of the Christmas tree decorated

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Speaker 1: with fruits and sweetmeats and lighted up with wax candles

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Speaker 1: causes such transports of joy. The tree lighted up with

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Speaker 1: wax candles is going to cause such transports of something. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So another big thing that was involved in the transfer

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Speaker 1: of the Christmas tree tradition to England. In seventeen nine,

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Speaker 1: the German wife of George the third suggested they erect

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Speaker 1: quote an illuminated tree according to the German fashion, and

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Speaker 1: and so you see it making the leap over into England. Now,

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Speaker 1: as for the Christmas tree in North America, this is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Flanders writes that it may have been here in North

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Speaker 1: America as soon as seventeen eighty six. Quote in North

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Speaker 1: Carolina that year a member of the Morovian Brethren accused

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Speaker 1: an apprentice of cutting down a small pine tree Christmas Eve,

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Speaker 1: the day on which trees were customarily erected in Germany. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: And there's also evidence of one in Georgia in eighteen

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Speaker 1: o five. So this is this is interesting. We often

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Speaker 1: think of of of things sort of you know, establishing

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Speaker 1: themselves in England and then becoming a thing here in

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Speaker 1: the United States. Uh, you know, but of course there

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Speaker 1: were people from from various European countries coming into North America,

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Speaker 1: so it ultimately makes perfect sense that the Christmas tree

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Speaker 1: would arrive here around the same time or even a

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Speaker 1: little earlier. Well. Yeah, so, based on what I've reading,

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Speaker 1: it seems like Christmas trees really started making their way

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Speaker 1: to the United States, being brought with German immigrants, not

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Speaker 1: not so much coming directly from England. The few people

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Speaker 1: in England were trying to pick it up. Um, it

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Speaker 1: looks like the German immigrants would bring them in the

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Speaker 1: eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, but they weren't taken up as

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Speaker 1: readily among the general population as you might imagine, And

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Speaker 1: there was basically a history of religious discrimination against Christmas

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Speaker 1: trees and other types of Christmas celebrations. After all, many

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Speaker 1: of the early settlers of eastern the eastern North American

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Speaker 1: colonies were English Puritans, who, most of the time, we're

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Speaker 1: not fans of the sort of you know, beastie old

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Speaker 1: pagan implications of a hallowed tree. You know, they were thinking, like,

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna put a tree up in your house,

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Speaker 1: why not just celebrate Christmas by having a decapitation contest

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Speaker 1: green Night. Uh So, and a few examples of this.

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Speaker 1: William Bradford, you know, the King of the Puritans, the

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Speaker 1: pilgrim governor of the Plymouth Colony. Uh. He was famous

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Speaker 1: slash infamous, depending on your point of view. Apparently in

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Speaker 1: one instance, Bradford just went ballistic and chewed out a

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Speaker 1: bunch of people in the Plymouth Colony for trying to

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Speaker 1: take the day off on Christmas. So you know, Bob

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Speaker 1: Cratchit's out in the street hanging out on Christmas morning,

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Speaker 1: and Bradford sees him and just his eyes glow red. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so he's writing incredulously that instead of working, he

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Speaker 1: found people on Christmas Day, quote in the street at

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Speaker 1: play openly, some pitching the bar and some at stool

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Speaker 1: ball and such like sports. And he regarded these celebrations

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Speaker 1: of Christmas as some kind of quote, pagan mockery of

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Speaker 1: God and the spirit of Jesus. So I think Bradford's

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Speaker 1: idea of Christmas is you go to work and then

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Speaker 1: maybe you go to church. But you you you do

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Speaker 1: not decorate, you do not play, you do not take

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Speaker 1: the day off, you do not sing. That that is

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Speaker 1: all satanic mischief. Yeah, he really sounds like the grand here. Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: And there were some other examples that I found cited

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Speaker 1: in a in a history dot com article I was

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Speaker 1: reading called the History of Christmas Tree. So one of

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Speaker 1: them was about Oliver Cromwell, not in the colonies but

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Speaker 1: back in England, English Puritan leader, one of the victors

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Speaker 1: of the English Civil War and becoming Lord Protector. He

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Speaker 1: he did not like what he called the heathen traditions

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Speaker 1: of things like Christmas carols, or decoration of trees or

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Speaker 1: you know, running around acting Mary that that was all

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Speaker 1: kind of desecration of what he called the sacred event

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Speaker 1: of Christmas. Um And this article also says quote in

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Speaker 1: sixteen fifty nine, the General Court of Massachusetts enacted a

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Speaker 1: law making any observance of December twenty five other than

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Speaker 1: a church service a penal offense. People were fined for

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Speaker 1: hanging decorations. The Stern Solemnity continued until the nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: when the influx of German and Irish immigrants undermine the

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Speaker 1: Puritan legacy. Oh man, this this is rich again, especially

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Speaker 1: when you look at some of the like legitimate angst

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Speaker 1: that emerges around you know, so called wars on Christmas

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Speaker 1: and so today, Oh well, it's this is funny because

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Speaker 1: while I was reading about this, looking at for these

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Speaker 1: historical sources, I also just happened to stumble across like

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Speaker 1: fundamentalist Christian blogs called things like Christmas Tree Truth and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. They're still railing against Christmas trees as

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Speaker 1: a as a trap door into some kind of covert

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Speaker 1: satanic mass. It was, Yeah, that that's a whole corner

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Speaker 1: of the Internet that is worth exploring. Yeah, Christmas trees

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Speaker 1: are just a gateway to find joy and other satanic concepts. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But so by the mid to late eighteen hundreds, there

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Speaker 1: there had been a real transition. By the late eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: Christmas trees started becoming popular in homes throughout the United States,

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Speaker 1: not just among German immigrants and their descendants. Christmas became

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Speaker 1: a federally recognized national holiday in eighteen seventy I think

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Speaker 1: that was signed into law by Grant. And so, of course,

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Speaker 1: as Christmas and Christmas trees became more mainstream, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you're not necessarily part of an immigrant community who has

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Speaker 1: a centuries long tradition of how exactly to festoon the

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Speaker 1: branches you know, going back to your grandparents and all that,

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Speaker 1: the question is going to become, how do you decorate

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Speaker 1: this thing? Well, you know, we're talking about Christmas tree lights,

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Speaker 1: so the immediate predecessor to electric Christmas tree lights, it's

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Speaker 1: of course going to be candles accentuated. This is interesting.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about this, but accentuated by special

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Speaker 1: glass beads that were strung around the tree. Uh Flanders

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Speaker 1: mentioned this, pointing out that to check glassblowers specialized in

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Speaker 1: these not only were they beautiful, but there were there

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Speaker 1: were something they were actually something on the tree that

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Speaker 1: would not burn if things got out of control. Because

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Speaker 1: of course, fire is a big risk when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about decorating a tree with little candles, and it's it's actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, I knew this innately, like that's dangerous. That

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Speaker 1: sounds like an out of control fire waiting to happen,

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Speaker 1: But I hadn't really thought about all the various ways

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Speaker 1: in which it is dangerous. Uh Flanders points out that that,

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Speaker 1: first of all, with candle lights and hearth fires in general,

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Speaker 1: fire was just a much greater daily risk back then.

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Speaker 1: But then you had these little candles wired tied to

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Speaker 1: individual tree branches, which again in and of itself dangerous,

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Speaker 1: But then as the candles melt, their weight alters and

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Speaker 1: uh and so so that's going to alter the tilt

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Speaker 1: of the branch that they're fixed to. Um, and that's

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Speaker 1: you know, potentially move moving that little ball of fire

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Speaker 1: around and putting it in contact with other branches and

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Speaker 1: decorations and things. On top of that, wax is dripping

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Speaker 1: down from these candles onto lower branches, and uh and

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Speaker 1: and uh in increasing their weight as well. So the risks,

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Speaker 1: you know, go way beyond merely you know, a situation

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Speaker 1: of candles balanced in a dried out tree, it becomes

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Speaker 1: a moving system to contend with with with branches with

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Speaker 1: one candle slowly moving up branches beneath, slowly dipping down

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Speaker 1: with accumulating wax. Um. It's frightening, yeah, so Flanders writes quote.

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Speaker 1: A series of innovations and contrivances designed to hold each

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Speaker 1: candle in place with greater stability appeared over the years,

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Speaker 1: but a litt tree was never a safe tree. Many

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Speaker 1: households lit their candles only once on Christmas Eve, prudently

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Speaker 1: keeping the hand water and a stick with a sponge

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Speaker 1: on the end of it um, which sounds great, like

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Speaker 1: that that should be like a Christmas character, that should

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00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: be like have its own decoration like the the sponge

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Speaker 1: stick guy for putting out the tree fire calls to

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Speaker 1: mind weird associations with the crucifixion scene in the Sponge Yeah. Alright,

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00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 1: so obviously again this is terribly dangerous situation. But it

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Speaker 1: is the immediate predecessor to the electric Christmas tree lights,

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Speaker 1: So this we can basically look back to the late

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds on this one. In eighty two, the Edison

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Speaker 1: Illuminating Company built the world's first electrical power station, and

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Speaker 1: four months later they lit up a Christmas tree. It

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Speaker 1: consisted of eighty red, white, and blue bulbs and was

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Speaker 1: installed in the home of Edward H. John, an inventor

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00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: and Edison's business partner. But at this point electricity was

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Speaker 1: simply not established enough for regular folks to get in

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00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: on the action. This was a special tree, so it

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00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: was only for special events and places such as an

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Speaker 1: electric tree erected in the children's ward of the New

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Speaker 1: York City Hospital or in the White House put up

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Speaker 1: an electric tree. This would have been Grover Cleveland's White

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Speaker 1: House hundreds of multicolored electric bulbs. According to the Library

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Speaker 1: of Congress. Some historians credit this tree was spurring the

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Speaker 1: acceptance of indoor Christmas tree lights. But still you had

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Speaker 1: to be either rich or an electricity nut, or I

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00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: guess ideally both to have this sort of lighting set

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Speaker 1: up at that time. According to the Library of Congress,

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Speaker 1: a light uh to light an average Christmas tree with

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Speaker 1: electric lights before nineteen o three would have cost something

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Speaker 1: like two thousand dollars in today's dollars. But but then

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Speaker 1: at the turn of the century, General Electric buys out

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Speaker 1: at A and and in nineteen o three they begin

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Speaker 1: offering pre assembled kits of Christmas lights. Okay, sorry, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to imagine. So one of the things that pre

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Speaker 1: dated electric lighting indoors and homes was you would have

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Speaker 1: gas supplied lamps, right, so you'd actually kind of like

427
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: the wiring in today's home. You'd run gas pipes up

428
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: through the walls and they'd have a little output where

429
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: you could attach a lamp and that they would be

430
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: powered indoors. Could you have a gas powered Christmas tree?

431
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: So like the gas pipe runs up the trunk and

432
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: then it goes out through some of the branches, they're

433
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: just pipes around through them, and then they're just lamps

434
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 1: all up and down. I like this idea of an

435
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: unholy gas punk Christmas tree. Um I did not. She

436
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: does not mention it as being a reality. But man,

437
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: there's gotta be some wacky and inventor who who tried

438
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: it and exploded. If not, I really just doubt the

439
00:24:54,560 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: ambition of inventors in the eighteen eighties. Um So, anyway,

440
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: they put out this kit and Fleming quotes the brochure

441
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: that comes with it. It says, quote, miniature incandescent lamps

442
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: have perfectly adapted to Christmas tree lighting. The element of

443
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: danger I have a present with candles. It's entirely removed,

444
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: as well as the inconvenience of grease, smoke and dirt.

445
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: The lamps are all lighted at once by turning of

446
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: a switch, will burn as long as desired without attention,

447
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: and can be readily extinguished. No stick with a sponge required.

448
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: That sounds far preferable. Flanders details This is a string

449
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: of twenty eight one candle power miniature Edison lamps. It

450
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: costs twelve dollars and I believe that breaks down to

451
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: something like three fifty dollars in today's money, which, to

452
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: be clear, is is the sort of some people are

453
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: still paying and well beyond that for their various holiday decorations.

454
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: When you were growing up, was there anybody in the

455
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: town where you lived who was like the house that

456
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: everybody in town knew about it would just go bonkers

457
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: at Christmas and put up what looks like a million

458
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: dollars worth of Christmas decorations in the yard and everybody

459
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: dry by at night. Yeah. Yeah, there were several of

460
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: those grizzwoll households around you would have you would drive

461
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: out to see them. They were destinations. Of course. Now

462
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: we have so many inflatable decorations, which are cool, but

463
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: I feel like that takes takes away some It doesn't

464
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: take anything away from the decorations, obviously, but uh, there

465
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: are all these other exciting ways to decorate a house

466
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: for the holidays now that don't necessarily involve lights. But

467
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: at the time, even in nineteen o three, it sounds

468
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: like you had some pretty cool options. Flaming points, uh

469
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: to some Austrian produced strings of lights quote with bulbs

470
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: shaped like fruit flowers and animals or snowmen or Santa's

471
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: And the cool thing about these these were apparently battery

472
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: powered and could be used in houses that didn't have electricity,

473
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: which is which is again an interesting innovation because again

474
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: nineteen o three, Yeah, and by the start of War

475
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: War one, around nineteen fourteen, prices dropped to the affordable

476
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 1: range of a dollar seventy five, So it just became

477
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: you can just see the situation. More and more houses

478
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: are getting electricity, more and more households are cool with

479
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: the idea of having electricity in in the home on

480
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: the Christmas tree. I also understand that there was an

481
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: insurance boost to having electric lights in your tree as

482
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: opposed to candles, and then it just becomes more and

483
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: more affordable, so more and more people buy into this.

484
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: According to the Library of Congress, American Albert Sedaka also

485
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: helped popularize tree lights. His family owned a novelty lighting store,

486
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: so he was well positioned to cash in on this

487
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: as a teenager in nineteen seventeen, he reportedly realized the

488
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: demand and in nineteen twenty uh Albert and his brothers

489
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: organized the National Outfit Manufacturers Association, or NOMA, which became

490
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: the Noma Electric Company, and they ended up cornering the

491
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: Christmas light market until the nineteen sixties, and NOMA was

492
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: responsible for a number of key innovations during their reign

493
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: of Christmas terror, uh, including bubble lights. Do you remember

494
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: bubble lights, Joe? I don't know what that is now,

495
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: you know? Okay? I believe I had an aunt or

496
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: two even that still had these on their trees when

497
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: I was a kid. Uh. These were a nine innovation,

498
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: these were Uh. These consisted of liquid feel filled vials

499
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: of toxic methylene chloride, and methylene chloride has a very

500
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: low boiling point, so the heat of an electric bulb

501
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: is enough to make it bubble, which looks cool on

502
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 1: a Christmas tree. But again, toxic vials of bubbling liquid.

503
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: Methylene chloride is also known as di chloro methane and

504
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: it I think it is used as a paint thinner

505
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: or like a paint stripper. Yeah. So um, I'm I'm

506
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: not jealous that I don't have these in my house. Um.

507
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure there might be some more acceptable

508
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: form of bubble lights out there today, But I would

509
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: love to hear from anyone out there who has memories

510
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: of bubble lights uh or has some sort of updated

511
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: version of the technology now or just anybody who has

512
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: has memories of older models of Christmas tree lighting, because

513
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: of course nowadays it's all pretty much l ed. Uh.

514
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: They system seems to be pretty much refined, The technology

515
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: seems to be pretty stable, with just varying degrees of

516
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: like smart technology involved in how they function. Like I

517
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: think you can nowadays you can get an artificial tree

518
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,719
Speaker 1: with lighting still you know, already installed on it, and

519
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: you can just you can decide like the frequency of

520
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: the twinkle. You can decide like what the the colors

521
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: are gonna be, just you know, on the fly. Oh,

522
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: sorry to whip us back. I think I just remember

523
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: another use of dichlora methane, which I think it's the

524
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: liquid that's in the dippy bird. Oh oh oh yeah,

525
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: the the dippy bird, the the water drinking a bird automaton. Yeah,

526
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: well there you go. That makes sense. Well, anyway, I'm

527
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: gonna order some dangerous vintage bubble lights. I'm sure you

528
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: can get the money. Oh, be careful, please be careful

529
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: out there. Um. You know, I'd also love to hear

530
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: from anybody who still decorates at all with candles. Um.

531
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: I imagine some people still do this, at least for

532
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: that one lighting, But I just don't know. I don't

533
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: think I'm brave enough to try it, even if I

534
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: did have a sponge on a stick. Than okay, so

535
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: put down your sponge on the stick, because I want

536
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: you to picture another element of a classic Christmas tree picture,

537
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: like the vintage nineteen fifties American Christmas tree, the kind

538
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: of like you'd see in a Christmas story and that

539
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: kind of thing. But what do you see when you

540
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: picture that in your mind? Maybe these multicolored electric lights,

541
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: maybe big old ball shaped ornaments, kind of making the

542
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: branches all drooped down under their weight. And then there's

543
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: that other stuff, stuff that makes it look like the

544
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: tree is dripping shiny metallic gack like a cassette tape

545
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: has barfed silver pasta all over the festive branches. Yes,

546
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: and and over the floor and um and just over

547
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: the house in general. Uh. You're talking, of course, about

548
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: about Tinsel or I think when I was growing up

549
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: we called him icicle Us for some reason. But Tinsel, Yes.

550
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: So I've got to start off by saying, I don't

551
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: know how many people still actually use this stuff, but

552
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: I do know it still exists, you can buy it.

553
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: I looked it up, but I'm mainly associated with Christmas trees.

554
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: You would see an old polaroids from boomer childhood's. Yeah,

555
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: we we definitely used it. I was talking about tinsel

556
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: with my wife last night and in both of our

557
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: households growing up. Yeah, we just tinseled the hell out

558
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: of those trees, like it looked like somebody had and

559
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: just she lacked them with with with shiny metal drippings.

560
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: So what is tinsel and where did it come from

561
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: and where did it go? Well, so remember that the

562
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: tradition of the Christmas tree, it ties into even older traditions,

563
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: but it goes back at least as far as the

564
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: sixteenth century in Germany. Um So, so what came before

565
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: tinsel in this context apparently literal icicles, because one thing

566
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: I've read is that a common understanding of the purpose

567
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: of tinsel is to resemble ice sickles hanging from the

568
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: branches of an evergreen tree and glimmering in the sun. Now,

569
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: if the tree is inside your house, it will not

570
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: do to have icicles hanging from it, unless you have

571
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: a really really cold house or you don't mind having

572
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: a really wet floor after they melt. So this is

573
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: the next best thing, right, shiny glittering filaments that reflect

574
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 1: the firelight and make your tree twinkle with Christmas cheer. Absolutely,

575
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: and it's kind of an upgrading of those check beads

576
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: that we talked about earlier, right, right, those were glass beads, right, Uh,

577
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: so these are originally going to be very metal. I

578
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: was reading, um, not metal like metal music they've made

579
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: of metal. I was reading a Mental Floss article about

580
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: this by Michelle deb Chack about the history of of

581
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: tins along Christmas trees, and she puts out a few

582
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: interesting facts, one of which is that today tinsel is

583
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: very cheap, you know, I looked it up. You can

584
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: get it from Target for three dollars for a packet

585
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: or something. But it was once absolutely a luxury item,

586
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: much like Christmas lights themselves. In seventeenth century Germany, there

587
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: are records of trees being decorated with pressed strips made

588
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: from real silver. And remember, you know, one of the

589
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: classic appeals of silver and gold is the way they

590
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: could shine beautifully. They'd reflect the light in a way

591
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: that was pretty. And this was before the invention of

592
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: cheaper metal and plastic foils. So I was looking for

593
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: more on the history here of about tinsel, and I

594
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: found an interesting book by Bernd Brunner called Inventing the

595
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: Christmas Tree, published by Yale University Press in and Brunner

596
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: has some interesting things to point out here. Brunner says

597
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: that quote tinsel was probably inspired by the so called

598
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: Leonie drata, which he says was introduced by Huguenots. From Leon,

599
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: I think Leonisha drata means Leonese wire, and this would

600
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: be quote silver or gold plated copper wire that was

601
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: originally a byproduct of metal work. It is reminiscent of

602
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: the silver thread that was woven into church estimates in

603
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: the Middle Ages for a long time. Tinsel, also called

604
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: silver plated sauerkraut in colloquial German, was cut from tinfoil.

605
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: It is reminiscent of a thin icicle, but it could

606
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: just as well bring forth summary associations. And then he

607
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: quotes a German writer who's a like a German realist

608
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: author named Theodore Storm in a passage from eighteen eighty

609
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: four where he's describing some stuff going on around Christmas.

610
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: He says, quote on the Sunday before Christmas, my friend

611
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: Peterson brought a sack filled with a marvelous silver thread.

612
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: The tree wrapped in this fine silver thread looked like

613
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: a flying summer. But Brunner also notes that a variation

614
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: on the silver tinsel was known as angels hair, fairies hair,

615
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: or Baby Jesus's hair, and he says this was also

616
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: a type of fine metal thread. Ah, now that's that's Internet.

617
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: First of all, I mean, I just I'm picturing Jesus,

618
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: adult Jesus with like a full head and beard of

619
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: like straight up silver metal hair. But it also reminds

620
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: me um. I remember talking to some of them, the

621
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: Czech Republican They're talking about the tradition of the baby

622
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: Jesus lowering gifts down. I think kind of like a

623
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: golden or metallic string. So I wonder if that's connected

624
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: to this tradition, like Jesus with a fishing pole like

625
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: the man on the moon kind of, I guess I'm

626
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: down Baby Jesus from on high using like the silver

627
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: corn really like a space elevator. That's very good. But

628
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: so to come back to this the silver tinsil, So

629
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: there were a lot of problems with genuine silver tinseil.

630
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: One of the obvious ones I mentioned already is how

631
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: expensive it would have been. But also deb Check points

632
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: out another thing, which is that silver tarnishes very quickly,

633
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: so if you put it up on the Christmas tree,

634
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: it might tarnish before Christmas actually came around. Okay, So

635
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: but then again, if you're if you're putting up your

636
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: tree on the like the traditional German Christmas Eve erection night,

637
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: then it makes sense. I mean, they don't call it

638
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: erection night obviously, but I mean that is the night

639
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: that you erect the Christmas tree. Okay, Yeah, maybe I'm

640
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: not sure when exactly the tinsel would go up in

641
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: in what context. But but you know, there were problems

642
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: with it maintaining it's it's sheen for as long as

643
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: you would want it to, especially since it's expensive stuff.

644
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: So I mean, this might be problems with trying to

645
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: use it year after year. If it was nade of

646
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: actual silver, you would probably want to do that, right.

647
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: But in the early nineteen hundreds of manufacturers in the

648
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: United States were making tinsel out of cheaper and more

649
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: durable shiny metals like aluminum and copper, but there were

650
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: still some problems with the new models because aluminum paper

651
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: based tinsel was highly flammable. Again, this is going to

652
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: cause problems when you want to light up your tree, right.

653
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: But then also during World War One, copper was in

654
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: high demand for wartime production, and so that made it

655
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: a poor choice for you know, for of qlidies like

656
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: holiday decorations. So so what could come in to save

657
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: the day? What other medals could come in to be

658
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: your cuddle friend for Christmas time? Oh? I don't know, um,

659
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: I know, you know where I'm going with this. Not lead, yep, lead?

660
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: Uh So, to read from teb Jack's article here, quote

661
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: lead revive tinsel from obscurity, and soon it was embraced

662
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: as a standard Christmas component along with ornaments and electric lights.

663
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: It became so popular in the nineteen fifties and sixties

664
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 1: that tinsel is often thought of as a mid century

665
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: fad rather than a tradition that's been around as long

666
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: as Christmas trees themselves. With so many synthetic decorations becoming

667
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: available around Christmas time, tinsel made from metal was considered

668
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: one of the safer items to have in the home.

669
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: A nineteen fifty nine newspaper article on holiday safety reads

670
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: quote tinsel was fairly safe because even if the kiddies

671
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: decided to swallow it, it will not cause poisoning. Uh. Folks,

672
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,919
Speaker 1: you you probably should not use tinsel based on lead

673
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: at all, and you definitely should not let the kiddies

674
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: decide to swallow it. Um. And this became quite clear,

675
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: obviously by the end of the sixties. I mean, starting

676
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: in the mid sixties you had great scientists like Claire C. Patterson, Uh,

677
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, the Lord of Lead, who we've talked about before,

678
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: talking about the the dangers of lead in the environment

679
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: and dangers of lead being incorporated into the body. By

680
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: the early seventies, the message was really out and there was,

681
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: you know, widespread backlash against the total infiltration of lead

682
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: into every corner of our existence. I mean, this is

683
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: the era when you get like the banning of leaded

684
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: gasoline and things like that. Um. And of course, of course,

685
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: this eventually also lead to the discontinuation of lead in

686
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: many consumer goods, including tenseil. So if you buy tenseil today,

687
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: it's probably gonna be made out of milar or polyvinyl

688
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: chloride with the shiny finish. Uh. You know, you're gonna

689
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: get probably some kind of plastic product. But despite the

690
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: fact that you can still buy it, I have noticed

691
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: I don't really see it very much anymore. I mean,

692
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: obviously somebody still using it because you can still get it.

693
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: But like my question is what happened to tinsel? I

694
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: wonder if modern versions of it just have too many

695
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: associations with like the post war plastic boom kind of energy,

696
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: if it just seems too synthetic. Because Brunner writes of

697
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: a countervailing force against tinsel in all of its forms

698
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: in In one paragraph in his book, he says, quote

699
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: at the end of the eighteen seventies, there is documentation

700
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: from Corinthian gael Valley in southern Austria, that a thick spruce,

701
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: free of all decoration, was placed in the corner of

702
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: a farmstead as a sign of silent joy. On frosty

703
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 1: cold winter mornings. The tree, now covered with little icicles

704
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: and illuminated by the sun's rays, shimmered like a Christmas

705
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: tree covered in lights, without any tensil or fairi's hair.

706
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: The wild beauty of the tree suffice and this kind

707
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: of brings us back to what we were talking about

708
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: at the beginning, like the fake tree versus the real tree.

709
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel that real tree drive, even though

710
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: habits have prevented me from ever going there, and the

711
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,959
Speaker 1: real tree drive, I think feeds into a maybe maybe

712
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: a more total rejection of things that remind you of

713
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: synthetic industrial products when you're decorating for Christmas. Yeah, I

714
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: do admire those really organic trees you see sometimes where

715
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: they're they're using my strong popcorn around it, and and yeah,

716
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: maybe getting back to the use of apples and and

717
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: so forth. Uh, you know it's yeah, I do like

718
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: that the idea that you could basically just eat the

719
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: whole tree after after Christmas, just eat it up or

720
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: just I guess it's you know, completely compostable to some

721
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: degree as well, that let the fungus have it. Uh.

722
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: But there's one more passage I want to read before

723
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: we move on. This doesn't really have much to do

724
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: with tensil, but I was reading parts of this book,

725
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: Inventing the Christmas Tree by Burned Burner, and um I

726
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: came across one section where I met the hannibal lecter

727
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: of Christmas, just the most astonishingly anal retentive Christmas fanatic

728
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: in history. Do you mind if I read this just

729
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: because I thought it was let's let's do it, let's

730
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: lean into the holidays. Yeah, okay, okay, So this is Brunner,

731
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: This is Bruner himself writing this introduction to the passage.

732
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 1: Bruner says some specialists transformed decoration of the Christmas tree

733
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: into an exceptional skill. Among them was the German Hugo Elm, who,

734
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: in his eight seventy eight Golden Christmas Book made a

735
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 1: plea for quote a tasteful separation of the numerous decorations

736
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: on the tree. In order to avoid a bland hodgepodge.

737
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: He suggested the following steps, precisely designed for the anatomy

738
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: of the tree and the load capacity of its branches,

739
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: And here the quote begins. Decorations should begin with the

740
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: heaviest objects, which are best placed near the trunk and

741
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: in the middle of a branch. Next one should place

742
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 1: the nuts. Place silver and gold nuts, alternating about three

743
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: to four pieces on the longer and two to three

744
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: on the shorter branches, and on the top smallest branches

745
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: only one each. The golden and silver pine cones, in contrast,

746
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: should be placed farther forward. In the second third of

747
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: the branch, as calculated from the trunk outward. Marzipan and

748
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: sweets are best placed in between two nuts. Shiny glass balls,

749
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: fruits and the like are to be placed preferably on

750
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: the upper branches in order to enjoy the effect of

751
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: their refracting rays of light. Metal coils and tinsel are

752
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: spread out at the tips of the secondary branches, for

753
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: these are thinner and are more likely to sway than

754
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: the thicker main branches, and small baskets and nets made

755
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: of paper are placed on secondary branches. The individual stars

756
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: should be distributed evenly, while the strings of alternating nuts,

757
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: draw stars, paper and similar are to be wound around

758
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: the branches, and distributed paper bags should always be put

759
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 1: on the tips of the branches, ideally beneath the lights.

760
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: At the top of the tree, one customarily puts a

761
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 1: large star made of cardboard covered with golden paper, in

762
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: which one glues either a self made or bought Christmas angel,

763
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: a thick tone with golden fringe, and an old Gothic

764
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: script displaying the Sublime Christmas saying glory to God in

765
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: the high also looks magnificent. Once the lights have been

766
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: put on the tree. The tops of the branches can

767
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: be covered with loosely pulled cotton and these then affixed

768
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: with silver thread. This is my design. Okay, so here's

769
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 1: my idea. Actually, in the tradition of Batman versus Superman,

770
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: Freddie versus Jason, Godzilla versus King Kong, we've got to

771
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: have a big movie Christmas extravaganza. Hugo Elm versus William Bradford,

772
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: the Man who Hated Chrismus versus the Man who will

773
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: kill you if you put the nuts and the stars

774
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: in the wrong order. Oh wow, wow, Yeah, I love

775
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: that reading. It's just so um pedantic, so so tyrannical.

776
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: Concerning the decoration of the Christmas tree. Right there at

777
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: the end though, he mentioned the star, the angel, the

778
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: tree topper. Joe, what's what's your treetopper? Oh? Um, you know,

779
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer. I could go check right now.

780
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: Let me let me go check some waiting music in

781
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: the meantime. All right, I may have caught him in alive.

782
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 1: There may be no Christmas tree and he's not coming back.

783
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 1: Oh it's anticlimactic. The star, Yeah, the star and the

784
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: angel are are typical. You do see some other quirky

785
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: Christmas tree toppers. I I have some family members to

786
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: use a tartists at the top of their tree. They can.

787
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: They consider that the pinnacle um. But of course one

788
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: of the big ones is is either the star or

789
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: the Angel. So for our final section in this episode,

790
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about the angelic tree topper. So

791
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: remember when we discussed the Victorian Christmas tree. Apparently was

792
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: during this time that the angel really became popular as

793
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 1: a Christmas tree topper, and it remains a popular choice

794
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: to this day. Though for the most part, these are

795
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 1: generally the most boring sort of angelic depictions you could

796
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: ask for, never the fearsome or surreal angels that one

797
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: often finds another treatments and art and artistry, and even

798
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: in um sacred literature. Now, these are generally like little

799
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: dress up dolls with wings in a halo. This is

800
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: not the terrifying messenger who carves the seven Pas into

801
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: Dante's forehead, right right, which again I say missed opportunity there.

802
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from anyone who has a more

803
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: terrifying angel at the top of their tree. I guess

804
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: you could put. I know they have ornaments of the

805
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: what what are they? The weeping angels from doctor who?

806
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 1: So maybe some uh, some doctor who fans out there

807
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: have have those at the top. Oh, that's not a

808
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 1: bad idea, but uh, to discuss what came before this

809
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 1: this invention, basically reasoning, this is an excuse to talk

810
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: about angels and Christmas tree angels. Basically, the angel at

811
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: the top of the Christmas tree is there because the

812
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: Angel Gabriel factors into the Christmas story. Gabriel is the

813
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: Angel of annunciation, the messenger of the Almighty God that

814
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: informs Mary that she is pregnant with the Son of God.

815
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: And just to give you a taste of the the

816
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: original Bible literature here, this is from the King James

817
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 1: version uh Luke one six three, and in the sixth month,

818
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: the Angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city

819
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin in espouse, to

820
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: a man whose name was Joseph of the House of David,

821
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: and the virgin's name was Mary. I believe it's also

822
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: in the Gospel of Luke that the Angel later at

823
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: the birth of Jesus appears to the shepherds and tells

824
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 1: them the good news that I'm unto them. My savior

825
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: is born right, and I think that that if I'm

826
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: not mistaken. That angel is not named, but it's often

827
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: assumed that it might be the same angel, or I

828
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: guess maybe angels working for Gabriel. Uh, it's all a

829
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: little vague, but but Gabriel is often referred to as

830
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: the Harold a k A Harald Angel. You may have

831
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: heard of him. He's been heart the Herald Angel sings um.

832
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: But Gabriel is also sometimes referred to as the Angel

833
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: of Death or though the the one who will blow

834
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: the final trumpet before the end of time. He's also

835
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: sometimes described as a deathbad angel who eases people into

836
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: the next life. Yeah, the actual characteristics and individual identities

837
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: of the angels and their hierarchies are not really explored

838
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 1: in what's usually considered canonical biblical literature, but a lot

839
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: of sort of apocryphal and you know, extra canonical works.

840
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: Now here's a fun fact. According to Carol Rose, who

841
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: often refer to for various mythical and uh, you know,

842
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 1: fanciful creatures, Rose points out that the word angel derives

843
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: from the Greek anglos and would have been pronounced with

844
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: a hard G up until the end of the thirteenth century,

845
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: in line with Old English and Teutonic traditions, but then

846
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: the French influence softens it. That's interesting now when you

847
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: see the word angel appearing in like the Bible, that

848
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: comes from word that originally just means messenger, so like

849
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: the angels are the messengers of the divine realm. Yeah, yeah,

850
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 1: Sometimes that message takes the form of announcing a birth.

851
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's more than the destruction of an entire city,

852
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But I have to say, growing

853
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: up in Christianity, I often gravitated towards the weirdness of

854
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: angels because they were supernatural outsiders, demi god like travelers,

855
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: and there's of course a ton of interesting material built

856
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 1: up around them, from their depicture and throughout hard history,

857
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: to their place in occult magic, to their treatment in

858
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: modern popular culture, and also in the spiritual warfare fundamentalist

859
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: theology that was popular back in the ninety nineties, and

860
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: I guess it's probably still popular in some circles. But

861
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 1: you know, the angels were just this deeply weird concept

862
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 1: that was just an accepted aspect of religious reality. Well, yeah,

863
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: there is a funny irony and like the insistence of

864
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: the idea of monotheism, and yet there are these heavenly

865
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: beings called angels, and you might say, well, but they're

866
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: heavenly beings but not gods. And then you just get

867
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: into sort of like hair splitting over what the meaning

868
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: of God is because a lot of the things that

869
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 1: are called gods and what are openly acknowledged as polytheistic

870
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: religions actually in many ways are similar to what people

871
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: believe about angels. And say Christianity, Yeah, because if you're

872
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: if you were like like I was, sometimes, if you're

873
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: board in church and you pick up the Bible and

874
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: you're like, well, I'm gonna read some angel stories, uh,

875
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: You're to be a little disappointed because there's there's actually

876
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 1: not much angelic action in the Bible, just a handful

877
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: of occurrences, and there's nothing to explain why they exist.

878
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: There's no origin story or anything for the angels. Though,

879
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: if you want to get into stuff outside the biblical

880
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: canon about where the angels come from and all that,

881
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: you get some into some wild and awesome territory. Yeah,

882
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of great fan fiction

883
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: that it emerged throughout history about this reveal, like we

884
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: gotta explain these guys where they come from? Um so,

885
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: so I was looking into this a little bit for

886
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: for this episode, and I read the archangel Gabriel in

887
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: History and Tradition by Roxana Eleana yavashi Uh and you've

888
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: actually points out that the reason that angels are basically

889
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: taken for granted both in Judaic and Christian traditions is

890
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: that you did not need to explain them. They are

891
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: already part of our supernatural understanding of everyday reality in

892
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: the world. The author points out that Hebrew ideas of

893
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: angels were influenced by Babylonian angelology and and also by Zoroastrianism.

894
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: So the idea, as they explain it is that while

895
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: angelic beings, demi gods and you know, various intermediaries that

896
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: serve primarily as messengers are sometimes agents of another sort.

897
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: They certainly factor into various religious systems, including the polytheism

898
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: of ancient Egypt. You know they're there, But but while

899
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: they are, they factor into polytheistic um pantheons. They are

900
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: a necessity, they write for monotheistic religions, as the monotheistic

901
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 1: God is ultimately faceless, or at least does not reveal

902
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: its face to humans. So for a god of God's

903
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: to do human like things, it has to send a

904
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: human like messenger. Oh yeah, that's kind of interesting. Now,

905
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 1: I would say that the idea of the monotheistic God

906
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: is a like faceless, you know, disembodied kind of spirit

907
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: that has no form of its own. Is a much

908
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: later understanding of that. I mean, I think the earlier

909
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 1: visions of that God would give would give him a

910
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: body and give him much more recognizably humanlike features. Right, Yeah,

911
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: And as the author points out again, you have various

912
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: messengers and agents popping up in various polytheistic religions, And

913
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 1: of course I instantly thought about the avatars and Hinduism,

914
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: by which a single divine entity may take various forms,

915
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, some much more human than others. The author

916
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 1: points out though, that you know that this ultimately shows

917
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: the continued role of transcendence in religion. There's this increasing

918
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: distance in religious tradition between the world of the gods

919
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: in the world of humans. So if you look back

920
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 1: to Greek myths, uh, you know, there was a lot

921
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: of interplay between the gods and humans a lot of drama,

922
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: direct drama between gods and humans. You look to the

923
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: Egyptian model, and there's also this sense that this is

924
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: all happening in the same world in our world. But

925
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,959
Speaker 1: then there's this growing distance between the place where God

926
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: is and the place where humans reside, and it then

927
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: necessitates these holy intermediaries where stead of God showing up

928
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: and saying, hey, I'm a bit ticked at you over this,

929
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: and angels like, hey, um, God sent me. Yeah, yeah,

930
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: he's not really happy about this whole apple thing, or

931
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: he said to call off the whole sacrifice your kid thing. Yeah, yeah,

932
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,439
Speaker 1: I just got the message to middle management. Yes. Now,

933
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 1: just as angels don't really have a huge presence in

934
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: the Bible, uh, they're also rarely named. Gabriel is the

935
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: first angel mentioned in the Book of Daniel, and he

936
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a lot of peers. I mean mostly

937
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 1: it's just Michael, the archangel as the other named angel

938
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: um and as the author points out here, Gabriel winds

939
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: up doing quite a bit of the heavy lifting. He

940
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: interprets Daniel's visions in the Old Testament, he appears to

941
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: Zacharias and announces the birth of John the Baptist in

942
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: the New Testament, of course, appears to marry like we

943
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: already mentioned. And then in Islamic tradition he reveals the

944
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 1: Koran to the prophet Mohammed, and of course there he

945
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: has other adventures outside of these books as well, various

946
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: you know myths, legends, even you know pop cultural examples.

947
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: For instance, Uh, Gabriel shows up in various bits of

948
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: Jewish legend and lore, various bits of Islamic legend and lore,

949
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 1: so he's associated with the Moon and early Jewish writings

950
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 1: as well as in medieval Christian astrology. In Moroccan traditions,

951
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: he is a Sidna Jebri according to Carol Rose, and

952
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: is said to have delivered to Addam all the tools

953
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: that he needed to survive outside of Paradise, which kind

954
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: of makes him sound like a Prometheus figure. Oh yeah, totally.

955
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: Though also I would say in the Garden of Eden story,

956
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: the serpent itself is very much a Prometheus figure. That's right, Yeah,

957
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: I read that. In Northern English traditions, there's a We've

958
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: mentioned the wild hunt and various death dogs and hell

959
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: hounds on the show before. Uh. There are also the

960
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: Gabriel Hounds, which are you know, basically just death dogs

961
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: of the wild hunt. And then, of course we have

962
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: some very memorable performances from from recent film history in

963
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: which somebody plays Gabriel. Uh. Tilda Swinton played a ubl

964
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: Gabriel in two thousand fives Constantine, which um was maybe. Yeah,

965
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 1: I remember it as being fun. I haven't seen it

966
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: since it came out. It's a probably an imperfect adaptation

967
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: of the comic book character, but it has a lot

968
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: of fun weirdness in it. I mean, Tilda Swinton as

969
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: a rebel angel Um, oh god, what's his name? Plays

970
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,879
Speaker 1: the devil? Oh? He played what's his name? He played

971
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 1: Dino Velvet in Um eight millimeter? Hold on looking it up,

972
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: Vigo Mortenson. No, no, you're thinking of your thinking of

973
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: the next film we're going to talk about. Oh oh geez,

974
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: Sorry sorry sorry. Peter Stormar, Yes, yes, he plays a

975
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: wonderful kind of like coked up Satan in that film

976
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: We believe in Nothing Gabriel Nothing. Yeah. Yeah, he's a

977
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 1: lot of fun in that. And of course the other

978
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: big Gabriel performance that comes to mind, Christopher walk Can

979
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: as a rebel Gabriel in three out of five Prophecy

980
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: films with the with Vigo Mortenson as the devil in

981
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, the Vigo played the devil in the

982
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: first one, and um yeah, I think what who else

983
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: was in that? A number of actors showed up in

984
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: that franchise. Oh man, I'm seeing lots of names of

985
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: Virginia Madson of Highlander to fame, Eric Stolts, Eric Stults,

986
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 1: that's right, yeah, Elias Kotaus, Amanda plumber Well and for

987
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 1: a written and directed by the man who wrote Highlander,

988
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: So it has strong Highlander there. Yeah, that Cannon's I mean, well,

989
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's like like this, Like we've said before,

990
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: there's the idea that to understand the mythology, you have

991
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 1: to you have to accept all forms of the mytholo.

992
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: You have to include all forms of the myth So

993
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,720
Speaker 1: we ultimately have to incorporate um the Prophecy films into

994
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: our understanding of of angelic lore. I was just thinking

995
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: about something that this kind about maybe the sexually isn't

996
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: all that interesting, just let me put it together. So

997
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: in order to have a really good understanding of a

998
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:10,280
Speaker 1: mythological tradition, you need to know all of the versions

999
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: of the myth that you can and hold them all

1000
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: in your head at the same time, understand where they

1001
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: come from, how they fit together, and how the myth

1002
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: varies in in all of its different faces. But as

1003
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: we talked about last time, one way in which you

1004
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 1: have to just pick one version of the myth is

1005
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: if you're going to engage in storytelling, right, because you

1006
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: can't tell all versions of the story at the same time.

1007
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: That's not enjoyable as a story, So you have to

1008
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: pick one way there. But the other time when you

1009
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 1: really have to pick one version of the myth is

1010
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: if it's official dogma and people have to believe it.

1011
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: If people have to believe it, they have to believe

1012
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 1: it one way or another, in which case you also

1013
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: have to pick one version of the story. So I

1014
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: think that's kind of interesting that whether you are trying

1015
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: to keep a child entertained or whether you want to

1016
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: lay down the law, that's when you have to pick

1017
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: one version and ignore all the others. One exception of

1018
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: this that I like that you you see occurring in

1019
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: various treatments, but one of the most noteworthy is probably

1020
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 1: um that second Batman from from Christopher Nolan the one

1021
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: in which Heath Ledger plays the Joker. Uh, the Joker

1022
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: gives his own origin story what a couple or maybe

1023
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: three different times, and it's always different. It's a play

1024
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: on that. Some say they came from such and such,

1025
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: some say it was this, you know, establishing multiple possible

1026
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: mythologies behind a character, which which I kind of like, Well,

1027
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: I think that Joker is uh, that does sound really cool.

1028
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: I think that Heath Ledger Joker is supposed to embody

1029
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: chaos and canonical unity is order. Uh. You know what

1030
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: that really means is in order to understand the mythology

1031
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: you need to understand the chaos of canonical diversity. Yeah,

1032
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: all right, sounds good to me. Let's let's put that

1033
00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: on the tree, Chaos angel go right at the top

1034
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: um because again, yeah, I'd love to see some some

1035
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: Christmas Angel tree toppers that invoked some of these other ideas.

1036
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there's some really beautiful, weird visions of angels

1037
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: out there, and and certainly, you know, traditional artistic treatments,

1038
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: but also more modern stuff. I'm thinking about the various

1039
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: like the seraphims of of Michael W. Kluda. Um. Certainly

1040
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: you could put a Christopher walking up there at the top.

1041
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: I think that would be great. All right, Well, uh, Joe,

1042
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: I think we've completely decorated this Christmas tree for the year.

1043
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: The trimming is complete, and now it really it only

1044
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: remains for us to put some presents underneath this tree.

1045
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: And by that, I of course mean listener mail. We

1046
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: would love to hear from everyone out there if you

1047
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: have some sort of a Christmas tree or holiday decoration

1048
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: tradition that ties into what we've discussed here. We would

1049
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: love to hear from you about it. Uh. You know,

1050
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: it's certainly not just Christmas decorations. I'm oh, I'm very

1051
00:59:55,720 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: interested in very secular holiday decoration traditions, or some version

1052
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: of holiday traditions that also meld with other systems of

1053
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: faith or mythologies or fandoms. I think that's all on

1054
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: the table, and I want to hear about it. Does

1055
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: anybody decorate their tree according to the strict instructions of

1056
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: Hugo Elm with no deviations whatsoever? If so, I want

1057
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: to know about that. Oh, man, I want to see

1058
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: a Hugo Elm tree. Now, you know, it's it's basically

1059
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: like to come back to the Bible. It's like the

1060
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Speaker 1: the the instructions of how to build the tent that

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Speaker 1: houses the Ark of the Covenant. You know, it's so specific,

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Speaker 1: but surely somebody's recreated it. You shall decorate, as the

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Speaker 1: commandant says. All right. In the meantime, if you want

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Speaker 1: to check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind,

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Speaker 1: you can find is wherever you get your podcasts and

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Speaker 1: wherever that happens to be. We just ask that you rate,

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Speaker 1: review and subscribe. I think you can still go to

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Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com and that will

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Speaker 1: send you over to our I heart page and if

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Speaker 1: you go there, there's a place to click for our

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Speaker 1: store and you can buy sut or something with our

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Speaker 1: logo on it or a cool monster on it. There

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Speaker 1: are a couple of couple a couple of listener created

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Speaker 1: designs in the mix as well. They're pretty exciting. Huge

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Speaker 1: thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson.

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Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

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Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other suggest topic

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Speaker 1: for the future, just to say hello, you can email

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Speaker 1: us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of i heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart radio, this is the

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Speaker 1: i heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listening

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.