1 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Ben, I'm no, 2 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: and we are as always joined with our super producer 3 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: Alex Williams. Have we introduced Alex to the Ridiculous History 4 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: crowd yet? Ah? Yes, everyone, Alex Alex. Everyone. He doesn't 5 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: really talk. He only talks in our ears and dead 6 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes we get him to turn up 7 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: the high hats and we assure you he's very much real. 8 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: It's very much super. Now he's there, we're looking at him, 9 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: and he is a handsome toothsome young man. Um. Have 10 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: you seen the new Blade Runner movie? At been? I 11 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: have not seen the New Blade Runner yet. No. I 12 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: saw it last night at like ten o'clock. And I 13 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: do really badly with falling asleep at late movies. And 14 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: it's quite long, but I will tell you that it 15 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: moved along at such a It's a very languid movie, 16 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: but it actually has a pretty incredible clip of action 17 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: and activity that kind of kept me awake and alert 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: and I enjoyed every second of it. And it's a 19 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: it's somewhat of a slow bird, right if I'm having 20 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: a hard time expression because it is a slow burn 21 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: and it's a very languid kind of drone e movie. 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: It's got this amazing score that very much matches what 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: Van Gellis did on the original one, but this time 24 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: they've got Hans Zimmer doing it. He's doing his very 25 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: best Vangellis impersonation and it's great. But it's like, you know, 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: it's the kind of movie that used to maybe would 27 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: have put me to sleep watching it at ten o'clock 28 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: and it is three hours long. But I'm just I 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: think that says a lot. I don't want to give 30 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: anything away. Everyone should see it. It's really cool. This 31 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: has like literally nothing to do with what we're talking 32 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: about today. It kind of does, does it, yes, Because 33 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: because we're we're currently talking about the seventeen the new 34 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: Blea Runner film. In the previous Blade Runner film, one 35 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: of my favorite things about it watching watching it as 36 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: a wee Tyke was decort right the protagonists he is. 37 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: It seems like there are scenes where he is walking 38 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: by restaurants and stuff. Man, I totally just pulled this 39 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: out of nowhere, but it absolutely does connect because it 40 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: was the future depicted in the Blade Runner movies and 41 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: in this new one too. There's a definite Chinese influence. 42 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: See where I'm going, and you see where you're going, 43 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: and there are you know, restaurants on every corner. A 44 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: lot of the folks that make the manufacturer the bootleg 45 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: um replicant animals and different things like that, they're they're 46 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: from China, and everyone kind of also speaks Chinese. Yeah, 47 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: it seems like it's a second language. It's very important. 48 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: There's this implied subtext that whether economically or culturally, the 49 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: Chinese culture is making these in roads right on place 50 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: is where it formerly would never have existed. And in 51 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: the universe of at least the original Blade Runner, this 52 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: is a given. This is after the fact, after the 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: story begins. This is already happened. And what's strange about it, 54 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, there is always the argument that science fiction 55 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: is like prescient, right, it's predictive. In this case, what's 56 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: fascinating is that in the past we have to wonder 57 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: what the directors are drawing from, because in the real 58 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: life past and genuine American history, there was a time 59 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 1: where people were very threatened by this notion. Yeah, it's 60 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: kind of another really awful, embarrassing thing that we as 61 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: a country did. It's it's pretty awful. Um, this is 62 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: kind of a bit of a bummer of a topic, 63 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: but it's really fascinating and for obvious reasons, completely ridiculous. 64 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: But we're gonna be as sensitive as humanly possible about this. 65 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: But there are some kind of upsetting racial themes that 66 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: we're going to get into in talking about America's war 67 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: on Chinese restaurants in the early nineteen hundreds. Now, I know, 68 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: I know, I know how this sounds. We know how 69 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: this sounds when you're hearing it a war on what. 70 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: And of course it's not as if America as a 71 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: stranger to waging war on various things, various things that 72 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: aren't nations, right. Uh. And it's kind of hard to 73 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: believe today because we know that there are over forty 74 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: one thousand Chinese restaurants in the US. This is an institution. 75 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: You know, we always think of think of about how 76 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: ubiquity is some fast food places might be, but Chinese 77 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: restaurants are taking the cake. I believe there are about 78 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: three times as many Chinese restaurants as the number of 79 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: McDonald's and General so Is Chicken. I've always been concerned 80 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: about my pronunciation of that as a General so Yeah, Yeah, 81 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: like yes that I'm gonna go with general. So it's 82 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: uh one of the most ordered dishes online via grub 83 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: hub um in the nation. So it's like one of 84 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: the most popular takeout foods that we have. Um. So 85 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: let's just set the scene a little bit, the creepy 86 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: racist scene, if you will. In the early to mid 87 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, the um white establishment, which was made up 88 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: of like local governments and labor unions, and boy boy, 89 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: were the labor unions a big part of this problem, 90 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: which we'll get into you later, among other institutions in 91 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: the US, basically put out and supported these Jim Crow 92 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: laws and other regulations that were incredibly prohibitive specifically to 93 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: people of Asian descent. Right. And based on these regulations 94 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: and the underlying and open, we should say this, very 95 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: open racist ideology, this establishment waged a campaign trying to 96 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: drive the Chinese restaurants of the time out of business. 97 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: And a lot of the stuff that we're a lot 98 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff we're taking as inspiration in 99 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: this episode comes from a fantastic study written by Gabriel J. 100 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: Chin and John Ormand called the War against Chinese Restaurants. Yeah, 101 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: the paper goes into every possible angle of this and 102 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: it's it's more than we could hope to cover in 103 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: a in a thirty minute podcast, but um, it's it's 104 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: it's such an interesting microcosm for the history of racism 105 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: in America too, because it comes at it from all sides. Basically, 106 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: you have, you know, the idea of targeting a specific 107 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: race with mistreatment and trying to exclude them from earning 108 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: a living wage and being successful entrepreneurs in this country, 109 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: to you know, the boycotts and all of the things 110 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: that go along with that, and protests, to the whole 111 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: idea of the Chinese man being painted and portrayed as 112 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: some sort of insidious threat that would potentially woo unsuspecting 113 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: white women into their you know, underground opium layers, and 114 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: you know, just just the most awful, stereotypical kinds of 115 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: things you could think of. Uh, this paper really dissects 116 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: all of that and gets to the heart of what's 117 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: going on here. Yeah, and the heart of what's going 118 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: on is unfortunately all too familiar because it obeys some 119 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: of the same patterns we have seen in history before. 120 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: And then the strangest and craziest thing about it is. 121 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: The question did America wage war on Chinese restaurants sounds ridiculous, 122 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: and the answer is yes, absolutely and no. You mentioned 123 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: some some of the prongs of their argument here and 124 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: there there two sides, right, there's the econom um excite, 125 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: as South Park characters would say, they're taking our gerbs, right, Yeah, 126 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: I mean there was you know, a lot of Chinese 127 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: immigration happened in the early eighteen hundreds as a result 128 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: of their willingness to work for less money. And you know, 129 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,119 Speaker 1: we built the Transcontinal Railroad and that was a huge 130 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: part of that labor force. And you know, of course, 131 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: you leave your home and you come to the land 132 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: of opportunity and the hopes of making a better life 133 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: for yourself, and then surprise, you're treated like utter garbage 134 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: and paid nothing and given no protections because the unions 135 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: literally would not allow folks of Chinese descent to be 136 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: a member, right exactly. And you know, labor unions are 137 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: a complex thing in US history, so we're not demigrating 138 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: the idea of labor unions. Overall. This is not capital 139 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: l capital you labor unions the concept. This is about 140 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: the provable, disputable actions of labor unions in this time, 141 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: because you see, they thought that these restaurants for for 142 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: people who are able to literally through backbreaking work probably 143 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: no small amount of luck and endless determination. People who 144 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: started their own restaurants were being targeted because they were 145 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: seeing this competition for American restaurants and that they were 146 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: taking away jobs, right, good American jobs in this case 147 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: pretty much white people restaurant jobs. And the idea of 148 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: this threat was to them a to these labor unions. 149 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: It was not so much an act of aggression as 150 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: it was some sort of act of defense or survivalism. No, 151 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: you've already already mentioned the fear that these these strange 152 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: men would capture the white women and involved them in 153 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: slavery essentially for opium. And this also, I think shows 154 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: how how much of a dearth of education there was 155 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: regarding the history of the West China and opium, because 156 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: we we haven't talked about on this show, but in 157 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: the Opium Wars, one of the main reasons they occurred 158 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: is because the Chinese government said, please stop forcing opium 159 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: on our people when it was really happening. So it's 160 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: an interesting and heartbreaking switcheroo. As as you said, this 161 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: immigration had been in play since the eighteen fifties, and 162 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: as these as people who came over from China began 163 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 1: to prosper and save money, they started opening their own businesses. 164 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: American Dream right, textbook American Dream, so to quote from 165 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: um an email interview conducted with the author of that paper, 166 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: Gabriel Jack Chenum non Chinese American cooks and waiters and 167 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: restaurant owners really wanted the Chinese restaurants gone. But what 168 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: got the labor movement as a whole interested was restricting 169 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: immigration in general and keeping Asians out of the workforce entirely. Yeah. Absolutely. 170 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: And this this is a strange case because it begins 171 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: to enter legislation. This fearmongering and this prejudice led to 172 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: Congress passing laws that explicitly stopped, blocked, halted, cut off 173 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: Chinese immigration, starting with the Chinese Exclusion Act of eighteen 174 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: eighty two. And the thing is, when the earliest Chinese 175 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: restaurants started in the US, they were not billing themselves 176 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: as quote unquote Chinese restaurants. The restauranteurs were assimilating. They 177 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: were including American food, you know, like grilled steak of 178 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: roast chicken, you know, whatever is around too. I mean, 179 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: we also think about supply chains. In that time, they 180 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: were probably making foods that were easily made from surrounding areas, 181 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: right and agricultural resources. But this didn't stop the unions 182 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: from going after Chinese restaurants, and they use different tactics 183 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: to do this. In some communities, the white union members 184 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: would do what is almost a mafioso tactic. They would 185 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: go into the restaurant and they would say, well, you know, 186 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna give you just a warning here, be about 187 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: time to leave town. Wednesday is a good trip forever. Yeah, 188 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: I mean in that paper, there's a whole section on 189 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: some of these attempts to literally run these folks out 190 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: of town like on a rail. Yes, and this was 191 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: not the only arrow in the quiver of these labor unions. 192 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: They also organized boycotts, and a boycott would be you've 193 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: seen these in the modern day. Boycott in this instance 194 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: would be something like a group of people getting together 195 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: to maybe protests outside of a restaurant, to pass out 196 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: handbills talking about this this menace and to exhort friends, neighbors, 197 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: and loved ones not to go to this restaurant to 198 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: make it feel that it is somehow a civic responsibility 199 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: not to support this establishment. And when you bring it 200 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: back to the labor unions, it becomes basically like a 201 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: national boycott because they made a huge deal about not 202 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:35,119 Speaker 1: patronizing any businesses that weren't connected to the labor unions, 203 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: and they would not allow people of Asian descent um, 204 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: whether they are you know, even children of immigrants, to 205 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: join the unions um. Therefore, they were essentially telling all 206 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: of their members to have nothing to do with any 207 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: business that had any connection with you know, these these people. Yes, 208 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: so let's let's think about this in the human perspective. 209 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: I love that you point this out. So even if 210 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: you were born in the US, maybe your parents immigrated 211 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: and you were born in California, that law would still 212 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: apply to you. It's something more. It's the layer of 213 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: race instead of just the layer of citizenship. And let's 214 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: imagine for a second the other side of the argument. 215 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: Let's say that you are a labor union member and 216 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: you don't have a problem with these other restaurants. Heck, 217 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: once a week you go out for family dinner at 218 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: your favorite place and you order chop suey, which is 219 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: a whole different thing, right, but because you're in the Union, 220 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: you can. It's you're not only told not to do it, 221 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: but there will be consequences if you do, uh, go 222 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: to this restaurant. Yeah, And speaking of chop suey, that 223 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: was actually a kind of an Americanized Asian dish that became, 224 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: you know, a centerpiece for um. These restaurants that were 225 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: popping up all over the place, especially in California. They 226 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: are called chop suey house is And it was a 227 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: dish that was like a stir fried mix of meat 228 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: and vegetables and eggs over noodles. And I was looking 229 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: it up and apparently the origin of the fridly terms 230 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: chop suey comes from the idea of reusing leftovers, so 231 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: sort of like you know, whatever you have left in 232 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: the frid So it's not a specific set of ingredients, 233 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: it's just kind of like whatever's around. Um. But they 234 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: were really popular, and these restaurants were popping up all 235 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: over the place, and you know, the they were the 236 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: target of all kinds of racist animosity, um wherever they 237 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: were found, even though they were certainly also pretty popular, right, 238 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: people were people were obviously building restaurants to meet demand. Right. 239 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: If people didn't like this food, then these would these 240 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: restaurants wouldn't exist. That's just how this business would work. 241 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: When the boycotts didn't work, though, and when the threats 242 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: didn't work both to let's remember the people who owned 243 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: the restaurants and the people who already existed in labor unions. 244 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: There was another step, and a very serious step. This 245 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: is where a story takes an even darker turn. There 246 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: was a missionary named el Ci Siegel and she was 247 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: found murdered in nineteen o nine in a room above 248 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: a Chinese restaurant in New York City. And this, as 249 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: Marcavelli in cold and I would say evil as it sounds, 250 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: was the opportunity that these anti immigration forces have been 251 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: waiting for. Yeah, this became a really huge story, not 252 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: just in New York but all across the country. And 253 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: there's a really great article on the site of the 254 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: Tenement Museum, and it's got some great clips of the headlines. 255 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: One of them is fine miss Seagal dead in trunk. 256 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: Her body was found in a trunk, um strangled with 257 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: a rope around her neck, and she was actually the 258 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: granddaughter of a very well known Union general from the 259 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: Civil War. So this was a pretty big l One 260 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: of the other headlines was Chinese suspected of slaying white 261 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: girl is in custody. Yikes. It's like how much more 262 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: divisive can you get in the headline. It's like where 263 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: they were definitely trying to push an agenda here and 264 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: stir up hysteria and kind of like a panic you 265 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: know too, We've got to do something about this problem. 266 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: This the inherent threat that has now gone beyond. This 267 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: is me speaking hypothetically, the voice of these kind of 268 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: awful people. Um has gone beyond just threatening us monetarily, 269 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: but there is a legitimate threat to our children. Things 270 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: insidious menace, think of the children. We have a moral imperative. 271 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: And this propagandization, this this smear campaign reached a fever pitch. 272 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: It became a media tropes when when Elsie Seaguals death 273 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: triggered a new era of this. It came from a 274 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: pre existing thing, this white female victimization. In Chin's paper, 275 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: they cite an eight film called King of the Opium Ring, 276 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: and it features a clown who rescues a young white 277 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: woman in dire straits on the balcony of a Chinese restaurant. 278 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: This thing played around the country. People loved it. So 279 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't, you know, tabula raz It wasn't a blank 280 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: slate for the labor unions to exploit this stuff emotionally. 281 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: And the Seagull murder lad to lobbying for laws that 282 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: completely banned white women, exclusively white women, not just from 283 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: working at a Chinese restaurant, but from visiting one as 284 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: a customer. And now we have the benefit of history 285 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: when you think about the murder, Well, it's crazy too, 286 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: because I mean, the language and the legislation is just 287 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: absurdly Obviously it's racist, but it's really sexist that talks 288 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: about how women are somehow weak willed and you know, 289 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: appliable and easily you know, led astray, and just very 290 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: condescending stuff. But as it turns out, this case had 291 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: a pretty interesting conclusion. So it turns out that the 292 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: apartment where else where Elsie Siegel's body was discovered, belonged 293 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: to a man by the name of Leon Ling, whose 294 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: cousin owned the restaurant um underneath the apartment, and they 295 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: found a box with a whole lot of love letters 296 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: from Um miss Siegel to this man Leon Ling, and 297 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: apparently some of them sounded very as though she were 298 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:47,239 Speaker 1: pleading with him to not leave her or you know, 299 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: to to stay with her. And it also came out 300 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: that there was another player in the story. There was 301 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: a man Um who was seen as being a potential 302 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: jealous uh spurned lover of mis Seagull. And this man's 303 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: name was Chew Gain, and he admitted to Um also 304 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: being in a relationship with Elsie Uh, and that he 305 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: had received anonymous letters threatening her life. And then eventually 306 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: the police discovered another man by the name of Chew 307 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: Gain who admitted to of having having had a relationship 308 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: with Um Elsie and he received all these anonymous letters 309 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: threatening his life and her life if they didn't in 310 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: the relationship Um. Ultimately the cops arrested three people, and 311 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: um Ling eventually left the country and was never apprehended, 312 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 1: and the murders apparently an open case, you know, more 313 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: than a years later. But all of this stuff just 314 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: stirred up these wild rumors that things from like Elsie 315 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: had killed herself to you know, the Chinese community had 316 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 1: smuggled ling out of the country. So all of this 317 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: just served to pour fuel on this you know, racist 318 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: fire that was burning already, and because it was such 319 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: a sensational story, it kind of spread this, you know, 320 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: all over the country, and this this went city to city. 321 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: Now that's not to say that some conscientious local politicians 322 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: didn't fight against these bills, some airs vetoed them. But 323 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: there was a change there was There was this wave 324 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: of people who were convinced, convinced that the enemy was 325 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: within and the enemy was making delicious food as a 326 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: cover for some larger, perfidious motive opponents. Luckily, luckily for me, 327 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: the opponents were not successful in ridding cities of Chinese restaurants, 328 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: and eventually the good news is that the organized movement 329 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: against the restaurants started to fade out. One of the 330 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: reasons the Chin sites that have faded out is pretty ugly, 331 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: but it makes sense. It's the Immigration Act of nineteen 332 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: four which made things worse in terms of immigration because 333 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: it took the Chinese Exclusion Act that just banned Chinese laborers, 334 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: and then it expanded it to include any immigrant from 335 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: the Asian continent, which is insane. These laws, according to Chin, 336 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: gave the white power structure that Nolan I mentioned earlier, 337 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: a little bit of I guess you'd say reassurance, a 338 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: security blanket where they said, well, we don't have to 339 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: worry anymore about our jobs and our incomes being taken 340 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: quote unquote, and this and the popular mindset meant that 341 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: Asian Americans were not going to be a labor threat, 342 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: at least not as much as they were seen at 343 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: the time. Okay, So you that I felt like there 344 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,239 Speaker 1: was a silver lining coming there, Ben, and I just 345 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: I just I don't see it. Yeah, he basically you're 346 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,959 Speaker 1: saying like it got better because it got worse, you know. 347 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: I uh, yeah, I tell you know, I think I 348 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: think that might be the case. And I guess what 349 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: I'm getting at is it got better in terms of 350 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: there weren't there wasn't as much of a problem for 351 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: the folks that were doing horrible angry racist stuff. So 352 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: therefore some of the horrible angry racist stuff stopped, I guess. 353 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 1: But right, but it didn't. See that's the thing. It 354 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: didn't get better for this power structure because it never 355 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: got worse, you know what I mean, Like this this threat, 356 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: this this perspective of a threat is clearly based on 357 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: racist ideology. It's not based, it's it's not a solid 358 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: economical argument, you know what I mean. I think it 359 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: wasn't until the was it the forties that you that 360 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 1: the US lifted this ban on Chinese immigration or no, 361 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't on immigration, It was on Chinese people becoming 362 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: nash realized US citizens. So as as far as recently 363 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: as the forties, this was this was a concern. But 364 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: you know what's funny, like what always happens is what 365 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: really turned the popular mindset, um, you know in the 366 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 1: favor of some of these business owners, was you know, 367 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: celebrities doing stuff and uh, you know we've got like 368 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: Bob Hope and and Ronald Reagan were big fans of 369 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: a place in San Francisco called Charlie Lowe's Forbidden City, 370 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,239 Speaker 1: which is such a cool name place. Um, and it 371 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: was like a nightclub and a restaurant in San Francisco's Chinatown. Um. Yeah. 372 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: I was this guy named Larry Ching who was considered, uh, 373 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: the Chinese Sinatra, and I was writing this article in 374 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: San Francisco Gate. There was also like a Chinese Sophie Tucker, 375 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: a Chinese Fred Astaire, probably a Chinese Sammy Davis Jr. 376 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what have you, but they always had 377 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: to be couched, you know, as some American you know, 378 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: popular Chinese version of this exist. Um places like this 379 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: because of the appearance of acceptance from influencers like you know, 380 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: these movie stars and president presidents. Uh it's people started 381 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: to kind of like chill out about it a little bit. 382 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: So what changed? You know? We have these celebrity endorsements, 383 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: one of which, famously by Man would later go on 384 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: to serve as US President. But the wheels of legislation 385 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: often grind slow. And as we said, it was until 386 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: forty three that the specific ban on Chinese people naturalizing occurred. 387 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: But even after that point, immigration laws made it incredibly 388 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: difficult for people of Chinese origin to immigrate. And this 389 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: was in this lasted up until get this, nineteen sixty eight, 390 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: three years after the Immigration and Nationality Act of nineteen 391 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: sixty five was an acted into law, So three years 392 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: after it was supposed to happen, it happens pretty mind boggling. 393 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: And it's in the six takes so long to do 394 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: normal stuff in this country. I don't get it, um, 395 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: but you know, now here we are as we said 396 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: at the top of the show, they're just you know, 397 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 1: thousands and thousands and thousands of Chinese restaurants. It's like 398 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: a hugely popular family meal night takeaway, you know thing. 399 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: I love it, my kid loves it. It's very delicious, 400 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: you know, tasty food, and a lot of it like too. 401 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: This is it's such a such an amazing variety of 402 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: things too, like in like different styles between Sechuan and 403 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: Cantonese and all of the spices, and it's just I mean, 404 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a huge, huge fan of Chinese food. Yeah. 405 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: When we were looking at some of the research here, 406 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: my my question for some of my friends started becoming, 407 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 1: when's the last time you're eate Chinese food? Everybody, it seems, 408 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: had it in like the past month at some point, 409 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: you know, people are voting with their taste butts. But 410 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: the journey isn't over yet, because the authors say that 411 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: they see clear echoes of the early twentieth century today. 412 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: We've got a great quote from Chin who says there's 413 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: a long tradition in the United States of good things 414 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: being reserved for white folks and misguided economic race tinged xenophobia, 415 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: the waves of discrimination have always proved to be unnecessary 416 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: and counterproductive, and honestly, I agree because when we see 417 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: these sort of who wasn't Mark Twain said that history 418 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: doesn't repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes. I'm paraphrasing there, yea. 419 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: George Lucas always also said that about them, how brilliant 420 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: the Star Wars prequels were, Like it rhymes. I don't 421 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: know what he means by that, but the slight Red 422 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: Letter media that does these amazing kind of lampoons of 423 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: these Star Wars prequels, they're always using this clip of 424 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: George Lucas thing about everything rhyming. I am going to 425 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 1: check that out and tell you right now, I am 426 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: in the mood for some orange chicken because just doing 427 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: this this episode has made me so hungry, and I 428 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: feel so fortunate that we're able to go find Chinese restaurants. 429 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: I mean, what if this, what if this went the 430 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: other way? Man? What if they were non existent? That 431 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: would be a shame. That would be a crying shame. 432 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: I mean, one thing I really love about living in 433 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: Atlanta is that we have this amazing, um just explosion 434 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: of fantastic you know, culinary options on We've got a 435 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: place called Buford Highway where there are you know, everything 436 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: from Korean to Chinese to all kinds of Latin American food, 437 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: the Opian, whatever you want. And that's That's one thing 438 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: that's cool about living in the United States is that 439 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: you have access to all of this great stuff. And 440 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't have any other way. I think 441 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: that's kind of what makes uh makes this country special. 442 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: And this means that we are all fortunate. There's a 443 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: happy ending to this story. Of course, no story ever 444 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: really ends, so maybe it's better to say, at this 445 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: point in time, it feels very fortunate. And for now 446 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: that's where our episode ends, but not our show. We 447 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: will be back very soon with more ridiculous history. And 448 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: in the meantime, we'd like to hear from you, so yeah, 449 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: write us your ideas and tell us. You know what 450 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: a bummer this episode was. Spoiler alert, we know we're 451 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: bummed out too, but you know, you gotta learn from 452 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: this stuff and makes you appreciate where we are now. 453 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: I guess, oh sorry, I'm just it's a it is 454 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: a bummer because I'm starting to think about like we're 455 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: not that much better. It's like people are still awful, 456 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: and you know, there's just a whole another culture that 457 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: people are acting this way towards. You know, there's really 458 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: no silver lining at all here. I hate to sound 459 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: so depressed about it, but it's just kind of making 460 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: me realize, like this notion of like, oh, we've come 461 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: so far, and maybe some of us have, but I 462 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: don't know, like we've come so far in one regard 463 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: and devolved so far in another. You know, I wonder, 464 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: I wonder what other cycles like this exists. There's obviously 465 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: there's obviously modern day versions of this where maybe some 466 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: of the language has changed, but the intent is not. 467 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: I know, I guess. I mean, I just saw an 468 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: article the other day about like, you know, a Jewish 469 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: deli in New York being sent an envelope with like 470 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: a swastika on it and saying, you know, Jews get 471 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: out and things like that. So, you know, I mean, 472 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: this is I think this stuff is is informative and illuminating, 473 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: but it's like it's just a bummer to me because 474 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: it's like I don't feel like we've fixed it exactly. 475 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how do you fix something 476 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: like this that's so deep seated in certain people. I 477 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: guess it's not as widespread hopefully. I don't know. Well, 478 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: it's also it may be a downer, but it's very 479 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: very important to have knowledge of this out in the world. 480 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's true. I'm sorry, man, I'm sorry. This 481 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: is uh, this is so crushing to me. I just 482 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: kind of like had a moment where I started to 483 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: think about, you know, this is there's so many parallels 484 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: with this story. I guess that we're seeing now in particular. Um, 485 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: but you know, I think if if we just at 486 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: least educate ourselves, then we can speak out when we 487 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: see people acting like jerks and speaking and speaking out. 488 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: We'd like to hear from you. What do you think 489 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: about these sorts of cycles in history? Also, what's your 490 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: favorite Chinese food? I think I've thrown that one in 491 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: there because I'm hungry. You're into your the orange chicken guy. 492 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, it just came to me, 493 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: but it's always a game time decision when I'm in 494 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: front of the menu. I mean, when it comes to 495 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: like super americanized Chinese food. Huge fan of orange chicken especially. 496 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: I like, you know, the crappier, the better. I like 497 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: Mall Orange Chicken. There's a particular, you know, flavor that 498 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: Mall Orange Chicken has for me and a soft spot 499 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: in my heart, very nostalgia because I remember being a 500 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: kid and eating orange chicken at the mall. But when 501 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: it comes to more traditional stuff, like you've you've done 502 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: the dim something, Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. We've got a 503 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: great place on Bover Highway called Canton House. Been there, yeah, 504 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: which is Gratwin dim sum, also a lot of regional cuisine. 505 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: Big fan of se Juan and I can't wait to 506 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: get out there. Actually, I'm I'm gonna head out and 507 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: grab something to eat. Yeah. The dim sums so cool 508 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: because you literally don't know what you're getting. It's just 509 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: a mixed bag. It's like a surprise every and every bite, 510 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: and they're all like small bites. But now we're just 511 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: talking about delicious Chinese food and we've got to get 512 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: out of here, don't we been? Yes, yes, we do, 513 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: my friends. So speaking of speaking out and uh, speaking 514 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: of surprising things, speak out right to us, surprise us. 515 00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. Yeah, we're on this 516 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: social media. Just search for us on Facebook, um and 517 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: Instagram and you'll find us. You can also send us 518 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: an email at ridiculous at how stuff works dot com, 519 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: and we will be back with you very soon for 520 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: more ridiculous history, depending on how long it takes for 521 00:33:16,880 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: the Orange chickens