WEBVTT - Ep. 107: Saving the Everglades 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:17.680 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening. Don't eat podcast. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.520 You can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:36.760 stay longer. Oh all right, um A very special guest, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.440 Kelly Rawlston. Hello. My first question for you, it's like 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.720 a It's like a structural question. Do you think I 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:49.760 should ask you first to explain the A s A 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.040 or should I ask you first to explain the Everglades? Well? 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:57.040 A s A would be a lot easier, So maybe 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:01.240 we'll go with that one. Okay. So within that keep 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:07.800 Florida fishing like roll that into it. Okay. So I 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.880 am work for the American Sport Fishing Association. Where are 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.560 a trade association for the sport fishing industry, and so 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:22.039 our members range from UM tackle retailers, tackle manufacturers, UM clothing, 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:27.280 eye wear, boat manufacturers, pretty much anything associated with sport 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.920 fishing industry. Retailers UM are are our members um A. 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.319 S A also puts on eye Cast, which is the 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.319 world's largest sport fishing trade show every July here in Orlando. 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.440 So would welcome you all back to Florida if you 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:44.200 want to make another trip coming up this summer. UM. 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:48.160 Because of the importance of Florida to the sport fishing industry. 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.360 It's the most fishing estate right it is as the 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.680 fishing capital of the world, and so UM, you know, 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.320 we have our industry has a huge investment in this state, 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:59.840 and we wanted to make sure that we ensured that 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.840 for the industry moving forward. And so UM we started 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.800 the Key Florida Fishing Initiative. I guess about two and 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:09.680 a half years ago. It's about how long I've been 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.160 with a s A to really focus on Florida specific issues. 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:18.000 So our motto is um a bennet fisheries, clean water 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.600 and access to both for Florida anglers, UM and our industry. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.720 How many states get a how many states get to 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.560 keep X fishing? Well, you know, as special as Florida is, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:30.639 we are the only one at this point. We also 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.440 have to keep America Fishing Advocacy program that Florida was 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:38.440 so sort of important and so complex. Yeah, you guys 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.120 had a set up shop in Florida. Yeah, it's UM. 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.080 It's a nine point six billion dollar industry in the state, 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.080 thousand jobs and that's just within the state. So A 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.440 lot of our industry. UM. Their sales are really important here, 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.160 but manufacturing takes place across the country. So from a 0:02:54.240 --> 0:03:00.240 nationwide perspective for the sport fishing industry, Florida is extremely important. UM, 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.560 you're gonna hate this. Who are the like, who are 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.360 your enemies? Yeah, that's a that's like you're not gonna 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.560 want You're gonna reframe the question. But you know what 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.120 I'm saying, Like, so you have you have a like 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.080 and I'm not talking about on the Florida sens but 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.400 on the national scale, not your enemies. But what do 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.399 you when you look at if if the association looks 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:24.240 and says, okay, we want to like promote the industry, 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:29.040 promote fishing, where do you wind up having friction? Like, 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.079 where does the friction occur? Because because I think that 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:35.280 on the surface, everyone's gonna be like, yeah, of course, yeah, 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.720 of course I like fishing. UM. I would say it 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:43.520 really depends on the issue. UM. Different issues you're in 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.240 agreement with different folks on. UM. A lot of the 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.000 federal fisheries management issues, which is where we have been 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:56.680 focused primarily at the national level, tend to UM involve 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:01.160 environmental groups and commercial fishing, because it's all about dividing 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.520 up kind of the allocation that that you're given for 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.080 a particular fishery, particularly red snapper you may have heard 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.640 of UM, so that one's probably more controversial. But there 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.400 are other instances, uh California salmon, where we are actually 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:18.280 working closely with environmental groups to ensure UM that there's 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.520 enough available water for salmon in the state. And that's 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:25.720 more of like a farmer versus fish type set up 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.640 because waters in such sorts of short supply out there. 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.120 So when all of the just I'm just talking like 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:36.400 high level general one is a fisheries issue and all 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.160 of the stakeholders, that's the term you get here all 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.000 the time, all of the stakeholders come to the table. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:50.000 Recreational fishing is one of those, and oftentimes you will 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.680 find that also seated at the table would be commercial 0:04:53.920 --> 0:05:00.440 fishing industry in the environmental movement. Yeah, and I think 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.440 a lot of that goes back to how federal fisheries 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.040 management was established in this country with the Magnus and 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.159 Stevens Act, and that was originally intended well, first, it 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.479 was originally intended to deal with international fishing in UM 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:17.719 United States waters. But after that it morphed into addressing 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.000 over fishing in the commercial industry, and so that's where 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.279 a lot of the regulations that we have right now 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.240 UM are. They're they're focused on commercial fishing, which if 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:31.080 you think about it, it's really an entirely different activity 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.640 then recreational fishing. I mean, yes, you want to go 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:35.839 out and encounter a fish, which is what a commercial 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.200 person wants to do, but they need to encounter a 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.520 lot of them in a short period of time, and 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.719 they're trying to harvest everyone that they see. From a 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:48.960 recreational perspective, you know, it's more about relationships with people 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:50.800 that you're going out on the water with. It's more 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:55.360 about the experience of being out there and fishing. And so, yes, 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.360 there is some harvest involved UM for some species more 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.040 than others UM, but it's it's an entirely different approach. 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.200 And so the big issue for us at the federal 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:10.839 level has been trying to kind of modernize the way 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:16.840 UM recreational fishing is managed because the commercial paradigm does 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:21.360 not work well for saltwater recreational fishing. So fresh water 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.360 is a whole different story that one is typically very 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.440 well done, but the magazine stevens act Um because there's 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.320 not a huge commercial fishing footprint, and there's some you know, 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.599 obviously in some minor mountain the Great Lakes and some 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.760 of the Mississippi drainage, but really not like when I 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.720 think about that sort of that the two paradigms or 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:44.880 the two like the recreational commercial relationship, be like when 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.840 we're out fishing in our skiffs in southeast Alaska, right 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:49.880 and you're out fishing out of sport fishing license and 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.719 you're allowed whatever, you know, like a couple of salmon 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.279 or sometimes one sam or particular species, but you're honestly 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:02.600 fishing where you could converse right with per sayers, who 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:07.479 are you know, using a hydraulic winch to haula like 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:11.800 I feel very inadequate here. You compare like one of 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.960 their halls with your lifetime of bag limits and realize 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.640 that like if you if you got your limit every 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.920 day all season for your lifetime, you wouldn't achieve one 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.520 basketfull of fish. And you know, and I'm not trying, like, 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.240 I'm not trying to criticize what I'm saying, it winds 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.040 up being like it's like this funny juxtaposition to be 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.480 like sitting in a boat comparing the two, you know, 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.400 the footprints of each well. And I think that's that's true, 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.480 especially in certain fisheries where there is a very large 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.480 commercial element. In Alaska's a prime example of that. We 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.000 have a lot of mixed use fisheries, particularly down here 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:47.880 in the southeast, and then we have some that are 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:52.280 almost exclusively recreational. So it does skew both ways. UM. 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.280 But to kind of bring it back around to UM, 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:59.080 you know who's at the table, I think the commercial industry. UM, 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.240 it's very comfortable with the Magnusine Steven's Act where it is, 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.440 and rightfully so, it's done a really good job of 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.760 bringing back, UM a lot of fisheries that were in trouble, 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:09.760 and we're in a good place as far as our 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:14.520 fish stocks in most cases nationwide. UM. The issue comes 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.840 when you look at kind of the poster child of 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.360 federal fisheries management, which is Red Snopper, which is a 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.800 mixed fishery. It's almost fifty fifty split in the allocation 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:28.320 between commercial and recreational. So there's so in that case, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.880 there's a significant impact from from recreational fishing um. But 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.320 you look at it in the recreational private recreational anglers 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.120 had initially a three day season federal season last year. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.360 Now there's other factors that go into why that was 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.960 a three day season, like Joe blow or the fishing 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.360 license had a three day season if he wants to 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.440 go out fishing in federal waters, which is where the 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:52.080 larger snapper are. So what has happened is the states 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.120 have tried to compensate for some of that because they 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:58.000 have jurisdiction over their waters. So they've opened longer, progressively 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.560 longer and longer state seasons to compense state for the 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.800 increasingly shorter and shorter federal seasons. And we're actually we've 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.719 actually been a victim of our own success because as 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:11.040 red snapper have continue to rebound an increase in size 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.319 and in number, we meet the quota faster because we're 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:15.959 able to just go out and pick them out of 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.439 the water. Um. And so trying to look at ways 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.480 to balance that is one thing. But anyway, so back 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.040 to the issue, So that's what designates the state control 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.880 of water versus federal waters. So um, it's nine miles 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:33.280 out is state waters Gulf wide now um, and then 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.320 beyond that is the easy out to two miles which 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.320 is federal jurisdiction. So how does that work as like 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.320 leaving Florida's side? Just so people can understand, if you 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.520 just imagine it's sort of like the the Atlantic and 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:51.280 Pacific coasts, what is like just generally there, at what 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.280 point does state regulated water turn into federal regulated water? Um? 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:57.280 On the I know, I'm not sure about Pacific. I 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.520 would assume it's similar to the Atlantic, which is three 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:02.200 miles out. Once you take your boat three miles out, 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:06.439 you're in federal honors. Yep. So but anyway, back to 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:08.360 back to magazine. So it's been a really great job 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.560 on the commercial side addressing their issues. They're very comfortable 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.880 with it. From a recreational side, we have some challenges 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.319 and I think there needs to be some additional flexibility 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.960 in management there. And so that's been one of the 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.679 big issues that we have been UM. We have brought 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.120 to the table um and and Congress appears to be 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.679 interested and poised to take action. UM. So fingers crossed, 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.480 so we can see some significant changes. There's some other 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.640 things that they're working on in the Gulf UM that 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:38.880 no offisheries. UM is working on with the Gulf States 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.240 to actually look at state management, turning over management of 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.040 that nine the two miles over to the States and 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.719 seeing what they can do with it. They've they've just 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.400 um submitted each of the states has submitted exempted fishing 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.880 permits UM. And this goes beyond it's like red snapper, 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:57.240 which is so this this is exclusively for red snapper 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.199 kind of as a test trend UM and and see 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.480 how how they do with that UM because I think 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.800 I think the States, especially from a recreational perspective, have 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.240 a much closer relationship with anglers and there's a lot 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.880 more trust there UM. And they've actually done a really 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.240 great job managing their inshore fisheries. So UM, this will 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.040 kind of be a test run. And there's some amendments 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.400 going through count the Council, the Gulf Council to see 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:23.800 if there's there are ways to do it permanently. So 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.440 what are some other um And I want to I 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:27.880 do want to get back to what we're supposed to 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.760 talking about. But if you look, okay, so in the Gulf, 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.920 like if you follow sort of the news around fisheries, 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.040 you do hear a lot about sort of the context, 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.199 like a limited resource that has a lot of people 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.520 wanting to make sure they're getting their fair share of 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.360 it would be red or red snapper in the Gulf. 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:54.840 In the Pacific Northwest, people there's constant conflict around salmon resources. Okay, 0:11:54.920 --> 0:12:00.600 so tribal, commercial, recreational, like who make sure everybody jockeying 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.480 to get what they feels rightfully, there's what are other 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.920 besides those two sort of corners of the country. What 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.000 are other species that kind of like generate that same 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.480 those same kind of tensions. I quite honestly can't think 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.880 if any. We've had some issues in the South Atlantic 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:21.440 with Kobea recently mainly due to UM trying to come 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.480 up with better estimates of recreational harvest UM because a 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:29.840 lot of the commercial fisheries have UM reporting requirements in place, 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:33.400 and recreational fishermen are a little bit more challenging to 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.960 kind of pin down how much they're bringing in, like 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.600 how much there actually catching, yeah, UM. And so actually, 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.480 the South Atlantic Fishery Management Council is considering an amendment 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.480 that would similar to what we're talking about in the Gulf, 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.120 that would turnover management of kobia to the Atlantic States 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.760 Marine Fisheries Commission, which is from Florida all the way 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.400 up the coast. UM. And that's primarily because Kobea are 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.440 a state water species almost exclusively. So mean they're not 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:06.600 out far, not typically typically Okay, So that's the American 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:13.079 Sport Fishing Association built into that is key Florida fishing. UM. 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:17.560 Now you can't talk about Florida fishing without talking about 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.079 the Evergades, right. It's well, you know, it's funny when 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.200 I when I started this position, I thought I'll be 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.280 doing fisheries issues and UM. And then we had the 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:33.400 big rain event UM in January of s and I 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.000 was like, right, we still haven't fixed the Everglades danging 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:40.120 it um because it was a huge, huge deal. Um. 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:44.360 We had you know, guacamole six inch thick blue green 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.640 algae in um in our coastal estuaries as a result 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.800 of discharges from like cocachobee UM. That affected tourism, It 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:57.319 affected habitat, it affected fisheries not only in the estuaries, 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.920 but also um in Florida Bay down in the Keys. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.560 So it is a south it's really a central in 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.679 South Florida issue when you want to get down to it, 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:09.400 and that's so important to our industry here in the state. 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.360 So explain the rain event and then we'll back up 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.320 on top of just like everybodies in general. Yeah, but 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.520 but I'm aware of this, remember like it made national news, 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:22.120 international news, international news. So a ton of rainfalls in 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.200 the off season and the typically dry season. So we've 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:30.320 had issues with discharges from like Cochobi going back to 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:35.440 the eighties and the seventies. Um, but it really came 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:39.160 to a head that year because it was in January, 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.200 which is typically a really dry month down here, and 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.800 so all of the tourists that were down here, the 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:48.920 snowbirds that were down here, um, saw what happened, and 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.200 so it started out as freshwater discharges. I realized, I 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.560 gotta interrupted because I feel like people are not gonna 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:56.080 understand what we're talking about. So there's a wet season 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:57.720 in a dry season. Now I want to go back here, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.400 let me do let me do another thing for and 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.320 you check me where I'm wrong on this. So everybody 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:08.200 can picture the Florida Peninsula. There's a like kind of 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:10.680 in the middle up and down there's a big, huge 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.720 lake which everybody's heard the word. Most everybody's heard of 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.720 Lake Okeechobee, big huge lake. There are rivers that flow 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.520 There are a number of primary rivers right that flow 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:28.160 southward into Lake okeechobe Historically, when that lake would fill up, 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:35.600 it would flow southward from there, and that everything southward 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.720 from there. Where that overfill, where all that overspill would 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.200 historically go, is what we call the evergrades. Right. Yeah, 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.520 it actually really starts at Mickey Mouse if you really 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.480 want to get technical, So Orlando, Um, there's a chain 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.920 of lakes and the Kissimi River and all of that. 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.000 It used to be a big floodplain, but now it's 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.840 been very channelized, so the water comes in pretty quickly. 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.920 They're almost finished with restoring the Kissimi River because initially 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.720 the Army Corps of Engineers, who is kind of the 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:06.480 construction lead on all of this from start to finish, 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:08.320 I thought would be a good idea to straighten it 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.200 out because that would be a lot easier to get 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.960 to and from right Um, But then we found out 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.080 that the water was just coming in way too quickly, 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:20.160 um and causing even greater problems. So historically it would 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.520 kind of meander down this flow way of the Cassimi 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.360 River into shallow but huge like Cochobe. It's over seven 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.480 d square miles but about nine ft average depths, so 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.320 it's pretty shallow. Um. And you think of it kind 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.720 of like a really shallow bowl. When it would when 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.200 it would get filled up, the southern end of it 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.400 would just overflow and it would be this huge sheet 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:45.040 of water about six inches deep that would flow primarily south, 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.000 but really it hooks kind of tour It hooked historically 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:52.520 towards the gulf side. And then there was ye, yeah, 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.040 it was um. I want to say it was four 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.960 thousand square miles originally and right now we have about 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.320 half of that little bit less than half of that 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.199 that's remaining. UM. So there's been this huge development obviously 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:10.040 along the southeast coast of Florida, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Stuart, Florida. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.800 All of that has was historic Everglades as well, but 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.359 it was on a higher ridge. Um. And then we've 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:21.399 had agriculture south of the lake on the fertile muck 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.560 grounds that are down there, um as a result of 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.440 the flooding. But yeah, it would take almost a year 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.399 from the for the water to get from Lake Okochobe 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:34.760 to Florida Bay. It was that slow movie wants that. 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.880 Sorry I did not do it. I am not a hydrologist, 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.840 but that that's what I've been told. That would take 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.920 a year. So just like its way through, it's so 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.119 ultimate ultimate filter really um. And so then that freshwater 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.560 would go into Florida Bay, which is so important for 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:56.600 our marine nurseries UM and fisheries. You have everything from 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.800 lobster to tarpan down there, um. And that used the 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.480 shore areas of Florida Bay as as nurseries UM. So 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.359 it's a huge breeding ground um and really really important 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.560 for our fisheries. So that okay, So that's how the 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:14.200 system once functioned. I rose, I'm throwing you off. Some'm 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.520 changing how I want to do all, okay, because because 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.439 I feel like but but I want I want to 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:21.720 get to like what happens now when you get a 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:23.960 ton of rain, which is becoming more important because we 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.480 just had like a couple of crazy hurricanes too. So 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:32.680 what was the big huge flood in the twenties, right, 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.960 and it killed a bunch of people. Yeah, so well 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.240 so what happened there, so maybe step back a little 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.960 bit before that. So the development happened because of agriculture 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.399 and because of population. Right, people wanted to move to 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.360 South Florida. Henry Flagnol and his rail road huge component 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.679 of that. Let's bring them all south, drain out um, 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.240 you know, the swamp, and and have a great place 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:58.760 for people to come and visit and recreate. Um. And 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.840 so south of the lake was this fertile muck ground. 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.119 I think even the Seminole Indians when they were kind 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.400 of pushed into the Everglades, realized how fertile the land 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.640 was there and used it for farming land that would 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:16.280 periodically flood. Yes, yes, um. And so originally um, the 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.199 two rivers that now connect to Lake Okeechobe that go 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.159 to the east and the west, the Kloosa Hatchie's on 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.680 the west and the St. Lucy's on the east, were 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.520 not originally connected to Lake Cochechobee. And so that's how 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.760 you ended up with that straight southern will relatively straight. 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:32.679 That's what I was. That's why I wasn't clear on 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.760 as I look at it and read about it, I wasn't. 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.320 I was always wondering, like, how could one lake head 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.760 rivers that flowed in three directions? But it didn't know. 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.000 It just went south. So those rivers were this their 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:48.120 own minor they were their own minor drainages, not connected 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:53.240 to this primary flow exactly. And so um. So back 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.800 to the agriculture south of the lake. So people started 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.320 farming there and they built a really kind of small 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.119 earthen berm around the south side at the lake. And 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.160 huge hurricane, Um, they think it was, you know, Category 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:09.600 five hit and blew out that dyke and thousands of 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.359 people died south of the lake because they had built 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.280 that bern So they had founding a fertile they had 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:21.480 founded a fertile floodplain which was prone to periodic flooding. 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.760 Set up shop, they're moved in built communities. They're like, 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:28.720 let's protect it from any kind of to keep it dry. 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:32.080 We'll put this dyke up. And then all of a sudden, 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.280 when the dyke failed, the burn failed, So the core 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.359 stepped in and it killed thousands of thousands. Um. The 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.360 core stepped in and and built the Herbert Hoover dyke, 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.800 and it's still there today. Um, it's undergoing a rehabilitation. 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.520 In fact, there's still concerns about the stability of that dyke. 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.320 And that's why when we had Hurricane Irma this last fall, 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.880 UM Governor Scott ordered an evacuation of those communities south 0:20:57.920 --> 0:20:59.920 of the lake for fear because we weren't sure exact 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:01.840 where it was going to go. UM, you know in 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:03.439 the projections where all that it was going to go 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.560 straight up the middle of the cause it to fail. 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:11.080 So it's a dyke, which is like a a big 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.680 trench full of water or like a big canal and 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.040 there like a big hill of water. Yeah, it's more 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.439 like a big, huge, tall hill um that they've built. 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.119 And so they're going around um and to rehability and 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:24.800 so it's not it's not canal long there. It's just 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.200 like it's just a big it's an earthen burn you 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:29.160 see on the Mississippi River, like an earth and damn, 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:33.640 I got you, okay, just made out of piled up Yeah. 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:35.680 So when they say failed, just that it would have 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:39.280 rolled away waters. What you saw in Houston, UM with 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:41.240 I can't remember the name of it out there, but 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:43.560 there was one that you could just watch that failed. 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.200 UM as the waters rose. It was just too much pressure. 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.200 So the core starts to get concerned when water levels 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:52.640 in the lake go above fifteen feet, because that's kind 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:56.400 of their key cut off for Okay, if it goes 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.680 above this, we need to start watching out for the 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.119 dyke and and how stable it is and and is 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.720 it are we seeing any signs of failure there? So? 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:09.200 Is that was that Herbert Hoover dyke? Was that sort 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.800 of like the first major kind of strike against the 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:18.200 Everglades was interrupting the southerly flow of water that in 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.520 tammy Amy Trail. I would say, we're the major um 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.679 major factors to begin with. And then the connection of 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.440 the St. Lucy River and the Clissa Hatchie River, which 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:31.879 are the east west flowing rooms. Okay, so so we 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:36.600 have this lake that would traditionally flow south as this 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:40.040 massive sheet shallow sticks and sheet of water, and you 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.359 block that flow. And so someone comes up to the idea, 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:49.920 probably over generations, I imagine, let's dig in and send 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.480 that water east and west. Different river system. It's doing 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:55.840 exactly what it was designed to do. I mean that 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.919 the way the system was altered, UM was intentionally to 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:04.280 not send water south, and it was intentionally to send 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:07.280 it out the two rivers to the east and the west. 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:10.959 UM that was the whole rationale. And at the time 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:14.520 when the decision was made, I I wonder if people 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:19.119 even back then I would say, but hey, what about 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:22.600