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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and a PBS NPR mayrist Paul shows

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Speaker 1: that Trump's support among rural voters is declining. Can't imagine

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Speaker 1: why we have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Talking Points Memo's own Josh Marshall stops by to talk

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Speaker 1: about how Trump is failing to emulate Victor Orbond's playbook.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to Minority Whip Catherine Clark about how

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Speaker 1: Dems continue to try and fight back against Trump's agenda. Plus,

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Speaker 1: we have a special bonus from our YouTube channel with

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Speaker 1: the Bulwarks Great Willsomer on the Mega Media clown Show

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Speaker 1: being invited to the White House press room. But first the.

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Speaker 2: News Smiley, we got to see Trump's budget. When I

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Speaker 2: imagine the stupidity that awaits us each day, just the

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Speaker 2: sheer grazing over this thing. The stupidity exceeds my expectations,

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Speaker 2: which were are.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is your way of saying, there are five

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Speaker 1: ways in which Trump's budget will affect everyday Americans. Now

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Speaker 1: disclaimer here, high likelihood this budget will not get passed,

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Speaker 1: will not get passed in this way. But if it

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Speaker 1: were to get passed, it would fuck a lot of

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Speaker 1: the people for whom Trump is their mango tinted god king.

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Speaker 1: So I think this is really important that we go

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Speaker 1: through this for a minute, and we are going to start. Look,

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Speaker 1: this is all Project twenty twenty five. You'll remember Project

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Speaker 1: twenty five as them slashing domestic spending, and that's where

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Speaker 1: we are Trump enacting twenty twenty six. And so here

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Speaker 1: are the ways in which this budget will completely fuck

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Speaker 1: over our people, and especially people in red states. Number

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Speaker 1: one is education. You'll remember tends to be red states

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Speaker 1: have lower state taxes, and that means less money for

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Speaker 1: education from the state, which means more money for education

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Speaker 1: from the federal government. Well, guess what Trump's budget would

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Speaker 1: decrease funding for programs meant to increase equity and education.

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Speaker 1: By the way, equity means poor people, right, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean white people, It means poor people. So that means

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Speaker 1: forty nine million from the Education Department's Office of Civil Rights,

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Speaker 1: which would be about finding racial quality but also economical quality.

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Speaker 1: Funding underfunded schools, four point five billion for K to

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Speaker 1: twelve and Title I programs by the way title I

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Speaker 1: poor schools, schools where poor kids go, schools in red

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Speaker 1: states where poor kids go. I bet you a gazillion

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Speaker 1: dollars that many of those schools are in Trump districts.

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Speaker 1: So then there's health. The big picture of the proposal

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Speaker 1: would add five hundred million to Health and Human Services

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Speaker 1: under Robert F. Kennedy Junior, and then three point five

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Speaker 1: billion in cuts for the CDC. I'm going to say

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Speaker 1: that again because that is fucking humongous. Three point five

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Speaker 1: billion cuts to the CDC seventeen billion and cuts the

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Speaker 1: National Institute for Health, so twenty five reduction from the

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Speaker 1: past year. That means the cancer drug trials getting cut,

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Speaker 1: the Alzheimer's drug trials getting cut, the melanoma trials getting cut.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this will be huge, mangus. It will mean

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Speaker 1: there will be much less scientific research conducted in America,

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Speaker 1: and on and on and on. Another thing, which as

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Speaker 1: RFK Junior is supposedly sober, he's cutting a billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in substance abuse in mental health services. And then the veterans,

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Speaker 1: of course get the shaft, and why wouldn't they, and

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Speaker 1: Trump three point three billion in funding for veterans healthcare services,

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Speaker 1: cut two point one billion to move medical records. Cut,

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Speaker 1: cutting state rental assistance which would help poor people, cutting

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Speaker 1: low income home energy assistance which helps poor people pay

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Speaker 1: for heat, all the things you would think. And remember

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Speaker 1: this is being done to pay for Donald Trump's tax

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Speaker 1: cuts for very wealthy people. So if you are not enraged,

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Speaker 1: you are not paying attention.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of reasons to be enraged, Trump is calling

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Speaker 2: for Democrats to be removed from Congress over their calls

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Speaker 2: for impeachment of him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, Trump does not like it. He's

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Speaker 1: an autocrat, right, He's like Kim Jong, but not as

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Speaker 1: good looking, and so that's an incest. Jesus, Kim Jong

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Speaker 1: is a young and fit man in the prime of

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Speaker 1: his life and happens to be a cousin. This is

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Speaker 1: the same as that he doesn't like him. When people

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Speaker 1: say stuff he doesn't like, it makes him upset. This

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Speaker 1: is a case of that. So there's a Michigan Democrat

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Speaker 1: introduced seven articles of impeachment targeting Trump. Now, the reason

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Speaker 1: why no one in the Democratic Party in the House

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Speaker 1: of Representatives is trying to impeach Trump is because they

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Speaker 1: don't have the votes, right, They don't even have the

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Speaker 1: votes to make an impeachment go. So the idea of

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Speaker 1: doing this, and we've seen Algreen kept doing it in

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Speaker 1: Trump's first two years, from twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: he kept introducing articles of impeachment. But until you have

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Speaker 1: the numbers to get there, you don't have the numbers

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Speaker 1: to get there. So this is sort of a fool's

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Speaker 1: errand but Trump is still sensitive. He doesn't like being impeached.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't like the poor poll numbers. Maggie Haberman writes

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Speaker 1: about this really well this week. She wrote a lot

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Speaker 1: about it. You talked about NCN. Trump is bothered by

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Speaker 1: this stuff. He's an egomaniac, so he is not happy

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Speaker 1: with all of this negative stuff and he would like

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Speaker 1: to punish the people who criticize him. Thank god, we

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Speaker 1: do have a first Amendment and as much as Trump

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Speaker 1: doesn't like it, it still exists.

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Speaker 3: YEP.

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Speaker 2: So this week was rattled with the usual competence are

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Speaker 2: they in they out that comes with the Trump administration,

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Speaker 2: where we thought Mike Waltz was fired for a minute,

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Speaker 2: but now he is the investor at the UN It's said,

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Speaker 2: but one of the underdiscussed details was that in the

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Speaker 2: cabinet meeting. He was using a signaled knockoff.

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Speaker 1: In Israeli, a fake signal chat in Israeli company, which

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Speaker 1: is easier to spy on. So let us say that

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Speaker 1: it seems very likely that Israel is spying on Mike Walls.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a fair assessment. Mike Walls is a moron.

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Speaker 1: I think we can all agree that he is a moron.

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Speaker 1: He accidentally added Jeff Goldberg to a group chat. At

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Speaker 1: every point, my man has done the dumbest possible thing. Now,

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Speaker 1: Trump does not want to fire people like the last administration.

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Speaker 1: This is clearly what's happening here. Right. He keeps, you know,

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Speaker 1: saying you're not going to get a scalp. You're not

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Speaker 1: going to get his scalp. So now he's decided he's

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Speaker 1: just going to move him to the job he was

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Speaker 1: going to give to Stevanic. Now here's the thing about

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Speaker 1: this United Nations job. Trump doesn't care about it because

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Speaker 1: in New York, okay, But he also just doesn't really

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Speaker 1: care about how government works. So he's like, we tried

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Speaker 1: to give it to Stevonic. We can't give it to

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Speaker 1: Stevonic because we need her vote. So let's just put

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Speaker 1: walls in there. They're not the same job, right, It's

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Speaker 1: just he just doesn't want to fire walls because he

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Speaker 1: doesn't want it. He feels like firing walls will give

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Speaker 1: his critics his scalp. And so here we go. He's

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Speaker 1: going to put walls in this other job, which I

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Speaker 1: guess he thinks is less important. Again, I think this

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Speaker 1: all says more about Trump. Also, I just want to

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Speaker 1: add that he keeps not firing people, and then he

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Speaker 1: gave Rubio the job because Rubio seems like he's the

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Speaker 1: least incompetent, which could actually be true.

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Speaker 2: I think it actually is true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, can Rubio do all the jobs in the federal government? Maybe?

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Speaker 1: Uh well, we'll see Health and Human Services secretary is next.

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Speaker 2: Mister Trump. He always changes things around Washington. Let me

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Speaker 2: tell you, you know, these ambassadorships, they used to be

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Speaker 2: for big donors. Now it's like the consolation prize you

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Speaker 2: get when they make you lose a congressional district at

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Speaker 2: an election to save face.

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Speaker 1: It's good, good stuff, good stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure he learned this on the Apprentice. Anyway, So Trump,

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Speaker 2: another feature of his presidency is total lawless and stupid

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Speaker 2: executive orders that are crossing borders that he's not supposed

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Speaker 2: to cross. And here we have that with him saying

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Speaker 2: to cease federal funding to PBS and NPR.

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Speaker 1: All these executive orders are the dumbest use of anyone's

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Speaker 1: time because they keep getting overturned in court. You'll remember

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Speaker 1: Chris Krebs has been targeted by one Mark Elias. If

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Speaker 1: you're on this podcast, you basically get targeted by a

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Speaker 1: Trump executive order. It's kind of the present, no, I mean,

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Speaker 1: so here's one where he and again this goes back

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Speaker 1: to Trump not liking being criticized. Right, He's seen pieces

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Speaker 1: in NPR and PBS which tell the truth. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: like that, and so he wants to defund them. But again,

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Speaker 1: this is why, in a world filled with Columbia you

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Speaker 1: want to be at Harvard, is that this is not

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Speaker 1: going to work. Right, There's no world in which he's

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Speaker 1: going to be able to do this the way he

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Speaker 1: wants to do it, and it's going to be in

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Speaker 1: court forever, and by the time it gets through the court,

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Speaker 1: he'll have lost the House and Democrats will be impeaching him.

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Speaker 1: So again, like, I see that what he's trying to

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Speaker 1: do here, but it's not going to work. Josh Marshall

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Speaker 1: is the editor of Talking Points Memo. Welcome to Fast Politics, Josh.

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Speaker 4: Marshall, thank you, thanks for having me here.

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Speaker 1: We are day ten billion of Trump's second term discuss I.

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Speaker 4: Feel like sort of the fates are going to come

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Speaker 4: down on me, or at least a lot of my

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Speaker 4: readers or doomers are going to come down on me.

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Speaker 4: But I think we've actually seen some positive developments over

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Speaker 4: the last ten days or so. I did a post

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Speaker 4: just kind of sharing with readers my sense of the situation,

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Speaker 4: and I think that Trump is kind of already lost. Frankly,

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Speaker 4: Now that doesn't mean that like this is over. I

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Speaker 4: think it's going to get a lot worse.

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Speaker 1: Crashing the economy has maybe not.

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Speaker 4: On so many other things, on so many, so many things.

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Speaker 4: I mean it simply in this sense that Trump's plan

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Speaker 4: in this second season of the series is basically to

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Speaker 4: impose a Victor Orbon system on the United States. Victor

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Speaker 4: Orbon the longtime prime minister of Hungary. And I think

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Speaker 4: in that effort to impose that kind of system, or

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Speaker 4: even an Orbon like system, something not Batriconian Orbonic as

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Speaker 4: we see orbonic. Yes, yes, I think that game may

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Speaker 4: already be over. That's not to say again that it

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Speaker 4: won't get a lot worse, that there won't be a

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Speaker 4: lot more damage. But I don't think he's going to

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Speaker 4: succeed at that aim. So that is a positive thing

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Speaker 4: in my mind.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk through this because this is a very

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Speaker 1: good thing that I actually want to talk about. So

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Speaker 1: Republicans decide of Victor Orbon was a genius to be emulated.

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Speaker 1: There's a book called Erica First, all about how much

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Speaker 1: Republicans love dictators and how this has actually been like

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Speaker 1: that they've always loved dictators, and that like you can

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Speaker 1: trace their Republicans who loved Franco. You know that at

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Speaker 1: every point they've been like, these guys have great ideas.

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Speaker 1: So it makes sense. And they did bring Orbon to

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Speaker 1: sea pack they had him do little talks. But what

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Speaker 1: I think they didn't realize was that Orbon was ruling

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Speaker 1: over a country the size of New Jersey.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and that is a very big deal. And he's

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Speaker 4: also ruling over a country that has had a couple

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Speaker 4: brief periods of democratic governance, not lasting more than a

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Speaker 4: decade or two, and that's different. Now there's an argument

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Speaker 4: that you hear with some people saying, hey, we've been

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Speaker 4: at this for almost two hundred and fifty years. The

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Speaker 4: roots of democracy are super deep here. It's not like

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Speaker 4: other countries. And that's true, but that doesn't mean things

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Speaker 4: can happen. But that is a factor I think what

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Speaker 4: people don't think enough about. And again I'm not saying

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Speaker 4: it's a guarantee by any means. It's not that it

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Speaker 4: can't happen here. It can, but you need to understand

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Speaker 4: some of the reasons. And it's not just a matter

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Speaker 4: of that, oh, people follow the Constitution, because obviously you've

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Speaker 4: seen that doesn't necessarily apply anymore. And it's certainly not

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Speaker 4: like the norms of government. But something I've been thinking

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Speaker 4: a lot about recently is that they're One of the

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Speaker 4: things about American political culture is there's something really deeply rooted,

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Speaker 4: which is a basic I can say what I want, yeah, right,

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Speaker 4: And that is something you see across the political spectrum,

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Speaker 4: and you see it at what political scientists referred to

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Speaker 4: as articulate communities, and that we're not talking here about

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Speaker 4: like you know, what kind of the vernacular you use,

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Speaker 4: but people who speak in big speak right and talk

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Speaker 4: about the First Amendment and all this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 4: And it also applies to just people like, hey, no

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Speaker 4: one's going to tell me what to say. I can

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Speaker 4: say what I want and I can show up at

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Speaker 4: a town hall. And if you're right wing left wing,

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Speaker 4: that makes all of this more difficult. And paradoxically, it

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Speaker 4: tends to be elites that are a little more cowable.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: That's sort of the big law firm that brings in

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Speaker 4: billions of dollars and they're all kind of plugged into

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Speaker 4: the state apparatus and stuff that they've got a lot

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Speaker 4: on the line, and they can be calible. But average

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Speaker 4: people tend not to be as cowable. Now, everybody's different,

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Speaker 4: people have different places in society, but that basic impulse

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Speaker 4: and that basic unfamiliarity with the idea that you might

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Speaker 4: not be able to kind of sound off about what

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Speaker 4: you think is something that is pretty deeply rooted in

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Speaker 4: American political culture. And at a basic level, what Trump

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Speaker 4: is trying to do is to say, Okay, here's some

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Speaker 4: new red lines. You can go out to what restaurants

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Speaker 4: you want, You can do this, you can do that,

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Speaker 4: you can say I'm awesome, can root for different baseball

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Speaker 4: and football teams, but in the political sphere, aside from

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Speaker 4: saying I'm awesome, no, right, and that's a hard sell

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Speaker 4: in this country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I would say, like, if we're just

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Speaker 1: looking at where we are in this moment, it strikes

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Speaker 1: me law firms really did shit the bad in a

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Speaker 1: way that almost no one else did. That Law firms Columbia.

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Speaker 1: Those guys every day look like bigger and bigger cowards.

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Speaker 1: That's my take. People who've left the country because they're

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Speaker 1: scared this is Trump is a we can push back

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Speaker 1: in a peaceful way against it. And also these people

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Speaker 1: are morons.

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Speaker 4: I have always been on the skeptical end of the

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Speaker 4: spectrum about whether Trump can pull this off from before

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Speaker 4: the election and everything, but skeptical not saying it couldn't

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Speaker 4: happen by any means. And what has kind of pushed

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Speaker 4: me into this camp is, you know, to peace about this.

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Speaker 4: A few days ago, kind of making the point that

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Speaker 4: I've just made before that I think he's kind of

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Speaker 4: already lost that fight. And a reader wrote back to

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Speaker 4: me and was sort of saying, Oh, I've been thinking

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Speaker 4: along the same lines, and the reader managed to summarize

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Speaker 4: what I had said much more concisely than I had

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Speaker 4: which is that there's a way you could turn this

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Speaker 4: country into an autocracy. This ain't it. This is not

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Speaker 4: how you do it. You don't crash the economy. At

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Speaker 4: the same time, that's really basic. One other point, everybody

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Speaker 4: talks about the authoritarian playbook, right and how it gets imposed.

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Speaker 4: This is a thing that is out there in our

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Speaker 4: political discourse now, that playbook that exists, and it does exist.

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Speaker 4: But what doesn't get talked about a lot is there's

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Speaker 4: one chapter that clearly Trump didn't read, but also a

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Speaker 4: lot of the anti trumpers didn't read, and that is

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Speaker 4: you got to keep the economy moving nicely during the transition,

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Speaker 4: and you have to keep key constituencies onside. And those

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Speaker 4: constituencies are I mean as they as they used to

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Speaker 4: saying kind of in Eastern European or like Soviet Russian terms.

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Speaker 4: You keep the pensioners and the power ministries on side, right,

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Speaker 4: the old people who need to get their checks, and

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Speaker 4: the military and the security services. He's doing that with Ice,

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Speaker 4: but he's even antagonized what you know, our version of

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Speaker 4: the security services and the military, and he certainly antagonized

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Speaker 4: old people by like trying to blow up social Security.

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Speaker 4: So there's an aspect of this. You can't go to

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Speaker 4: war with everyone at once, right, you have to be

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Speaker 4: strategic about it. And so paradoxically he's actually doing domestically

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Speaker 4: what we are seeing is not working internationally, which is

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Speaker 4: that you might say, oh, okay, we're going to really,

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Speaker 4: you know, crack down on you folks in China, We're

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Speaker 4: going to put big tariffs and blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 4: But you need to have get other countries to go

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Speaker 4: along with that. And if you're doing it to every

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Speaker 4: other country at the same time, it's all going to

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Speaker 4: fall apart. And in a way, that's what he's doing domestically.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, if you were going to say there's one

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Speaker 1: moment where he really fucked himself, I think it's the

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Speaker 1: tariffs because you have people like Ken Griffin, right, Ken

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Speaker 1: Griffin the largest donor to Republican politics that isn't a

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Speaker 1: Trump donor, and he's on there going he's ruining the

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Speaker 1: American brand. Now, is he doing it because he's disappearing

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Speaker 1: grad students? I think so. But why Griffin is saying

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Speaker 1: that is because he's killing the economy. I mean, so

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Speaker 1: I do think he is on the fast track to

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Speaker 1: alienating many of his allies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he is.

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Speaker 4: And there's another kind of allies. And this goes to

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Speaker 4: kind of like don't tell me what I can say

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff that when you have people in parts

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Speaker 4: of the country who are very red parts of the country,

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Speaker 4: and they are very red sectors of society, rural America,

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Speaker 4: a lot of what remains of you know, manufacturing, you know,

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Speaker 4: the kind of the more male parts of the manufacturing economy,

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Speaker 4: fairly trumpy, in some cases, extremely trumpy. When when you

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Speaker 4: start kind of breaking those parts of the economy, you're

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Speaker 4: gonna quickly get down to that true true believers. And

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Speaker 4: there aren't that many true true believers. It's interesting you

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Speaker 4: see this as some of the Wall Street people, and

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Speaker 4: in some ways these are the most telling that you

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Speaker 4: get people saying, man, I do love Trump, but this

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Speaker 4: seems kind of messed up. But we sure about this,

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Speaker 4: you know, you see it in the sort of the

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Speaker 4: acman types. I mean, that guy is so all in

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Speaker 4: yet and he's like, uh, I love Trump and Trump

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Speaker 4: is a genius, but I feel like someone must be

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Speaker 4: giving him bad advice because you know, like, okay, good good,

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Speaker 4: good job Bill.

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Speaker 1: Are you ever sort of surprised at how were they

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Speaker 1: just a sleep for the last time he was president?

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Speaker 1: Because I seem to remember like Bill Ackman being like

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Speaker 1: what the fuck? Like, we've lived through twenty sixteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty and it every point there'd be moments where

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Speaker 1: we'd be like, nah, he's not gonna do that, that

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Speaker 1: would just be stupid, And at every point he has

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Speaker 1: in fact done that very thing.

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Speaker 4: I think if you were paying attention to politics in

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Speaker 4: the first term, and you were paying attention to things that, well,

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Speaker 4: if you're paying attention to politics at all, you know that.

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Speaker 4: But you've got a lot of these two things. You've

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Speaker 4: got a lot of these guys, like the whole kind

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Speaker 4: of crew around Elon Musk and guy or what is

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Speaker 4: his name?

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Speaker 1: It sucks, right, it sucks, But we can pretty much

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Speaker 1: say socks because a fucking guy. One thing you see,

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Speaker 1: is it not all venture capitalists are smart.

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Speaker 4: Yes, One thing you see is a lot of these

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Speaker 4: guys they found out about politics in like twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 4: And beyond what you and I may think about bad

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Speaker 4: views are wrong views. They're really ignorant about politics. They

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Speaker 4: don't know things that happened even a few years ago.

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Speaker 4: So that's one part of it. The other part of

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Speaker 4: it is, and I think this is something that liberals

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Speaker 4: and anti Trump people have not been cognizant enough of,

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Speaker 4: is that if you looked at the economy, Trump inherited

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Speaker 4: a good economy. He juiced it with a big tax cut.

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Speaker 4: Tax cuts have other bad things, but they do kind

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Speaker 4: of rev the economy. He didn't really interfere much in

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Speaker 4: the economy. I mean, he did do some things, but

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Speaker 4: nothing like this. And so I think if you're really

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Speaker 4: kind of on Wall Street and that's your world and

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Speaker 4: your view of politics is just are they in our

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Speaker 4: hair at all?

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Speaker 3: Didn't seem so bad.

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Speaker 4: Kind of like he basically just let the economy move along.

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Speaker 4: He did a lot of deregulations, formal and informal deregulation stuff.

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Speaker 4: And you know, there's a broader permutation of this, and

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Speaker 4: that is if you just turned off the news in

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Speaker 4: term one before COVID, right, if you just literally didn't

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Speaker 4: listen to the news, people like you or I might

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Speaker 4: be saying, oh my god, this is happening, Oh my god,

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Speaker 4: that's happening. But like if you were just living your

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Speaker 4: life absent the news, most things seem fine, right. I mean,

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Speaker 4: there are some sectors of the economy where things we

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Speaker 4: are of the country or communities we're thinks. But for

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Speaker 4: most people you could just sort of kind of yeah,

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Speaker 4: he's this kind of weird dude, and like whatever, not

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Speaker 4: my problem. That is different this time. I mean, things

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Speaker 4: are happening that you may never listen to the news,

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Speaker 4: but you know, you see the most striking thing you

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Speaker 4: see and it is a reality regardless of what happens

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Speaker 4: to the real economy. People are really worried about losing

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Speaker 4: their jobs right now, really worried about the economy, And

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Speaker 4: those are the kind of things when you get people

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Speaker 4: that worried, that takes on a reality of its own.

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Speaker 4: If everybody gets worried and stop spending money, that's a

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Speaker 4: recession right there, kind of regardless of what got you there.

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Speaker 4: That's political. People don't like being worried, and whoever they

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Speaker 4: blame for it can be in in you know, in

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Speaker 4: real trouble.

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Speaker 1: No, I know, and I think that's a real question.

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Speaker 1: We are out of time, unfortunately, but I hope you

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Speaker 1: will come back because this went by so fast.

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Speaker 4: I always love coming back. It's so much fun.

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Speaker 1: Catherine Clark is the Minority whip and represents Massachusetts fifth

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Speaker 1: Congressional District. Welcome to Fast Politics, Representative.

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Speaker 5: Clark, thank you, it is so good to be back

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Speaker 5: on the show with you.

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Speaker 1: First, we're going to start by debunking there was a

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Speaker 1: story in the Bulwark today that the Minority leader had

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Speaker 1: said that he didn't want people going El Salvador anymore.

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Speaker 1: This has been debunked already to me privately, but I'm

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Speaker 1: curious if you'd like to talk about that.

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Speaker 5: I have not seen that report. Tell you that. Listen,

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Speaker 5: we feel that we can do lots of things at once.

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Speaker 5: We can talk about the importance of the economy of

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Speaker 5: rise and costs for people, how they are being betrayed

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Speaker 5: by this administration and the Republicans here in Congress. And

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Speaker 5: we can stand up for rule of law in the

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Speaker 5: fact that when you are denying to process anyone that

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Speaker 5: impacts everyone. Those are the values that we hold and

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Speaker 5: that we have to meet the full spectrum of the

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Speaker 5: corruption and the unconstitutional behavior we are seeing from this

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Speaker 5: president and make sure we're talking about all of it

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Speaker 5: and that includes sometimes showing up in places to show

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Speaker 5: people that we care and that we're going to continue

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Speaker 5: not to forget about these people, because it all comes

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Speaker 5: back to what we're fighting for for families, and that's

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Speaker 5: a fair shot. And if you are giving up the

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Speaker 5: rule of law, if you are giving up their shot

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Speaker 5: at the economy, then then we are not doing our

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Speaker 5: job and speaking up against the many atrocities of this administration.

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Speaker 1: I really do, and I've argued this before, that the

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Speaker 1: Democrats can walk into gum. They can point out that

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Speaker 1: the tariffs are bad, and that not giving people to

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Speaker 1: process also bad, that it's not choice.

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Speaker 5: That's right. This is a whole American dream that is

433
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 5: at stake. And you know, these all are interconnected. So

434
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 5: we can't just say, oh, you know, we're not going

435
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 5: to talk about this piece, or we're not going to

436
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 5: emphasize this. We don't want to get sidetracked into deep

437
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 5: arguments over the Gulf of Mexico being renamed. But these

438
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 5: fundamentals to the safety and security of the American people,

439
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 5: you bet we're going to show up and talk about that.

440
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: A lot of the stuff now we are Trump is

441
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: a little more than one hundred days there were some

442
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: pretty devastating polls released that showed that he's pretty much

443
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: squandered any kind of mandate he had. Do you think

444
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: that this will make a Republicans stand up to him,

445
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 1: the fact that they are all up for reelection, at

446
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: least in the House in twenty six.

447
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 5: His approval rating in some polls is down around thirty

448
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 5: nine percent. If we want to give him a high,

449
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 5: it's at forty four percent. But he's underwater, and he

450
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 5: is the lowest at this point in his administration in

451
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 5: recorded history. So I certainly hope that that gives the

452
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 5: strength of conviction to some. We only need five at

453
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 5: this point, five Republicans to say none of this taking

454
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 5: away healthcare, veterans benefits, defunding public school, dismantling social Security,

455
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 5: taking away headstart food programs. One of this is good

456
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 5: for folks at home. None of this is good for

457
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 5: my voters, and none of this is going to be

458
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 5: good for my reelection. Because he is the one. Donald

459
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 5: Trump is the one who is leading their whip operation,

460
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 5: who's bringing on their votes. It is the power of

461
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 5: his personality. It is fear of him turning on them

462
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 5: that is driving this zombie like adherents to him and

463
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 5: these incredibly damaging and dangerous cuts that we are seeing

464
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 5: across the board. So I hope that as his political

465
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 5: power arose with the very voters who voted for him

466
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 5: in twenty four that this is going to finally give

467
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 5: a handful of them, because that's all we need, the

468
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 5: courage to stand up and do what's right.

469
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: Disappearing grad students, Well, you saw video Massachusetts of a

470
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: woman being disappeared by playing closed ice agents. There's this

471
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: Garcia case, but then there really are these grad students,

472
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: a lot of whom are locked up in Louisiana. I

473
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: know there was one released. Do you have an insight

474
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: into what's going on there?

475
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 5: This case of Ramesa Ostok Toughs is in my district.

476
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I thought.

477
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 5: She's a Fulbright scholar. She's studying the highly controversial topic

478
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 5: of early childhood development. She is studying the impact of

479
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 5: trauma on kids. She's kind of exactly who we want

480
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 5: coming to our country, taking part in academia and contributing back.

481
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 5: As far as we can tell, and people have looked

482
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 5: into her background, the only thing that could be at

483
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 5: the heart of this is that she co authored an

484
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 5: op ed piece on divesting for the Tough Student newspaper.

485
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 5: I mean, she does not even have a parking ticket.

486
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 5: And I think what is so powerful about it is

487
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 5: that we do have video and we can see that

488
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 5: this isn't a deportation process, This isn't exercising the state

489
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 5: department's rights over student visas. This was an abduction. She

490
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 5: has been disappeared off the streets of our country. And

491
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 5: as appalling as that is for her, if you can

492
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 5: watch that video and not have a chill down your

493
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 5: spine about where we are in this country, it is

494
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 5: the ramifications and the implications for every single American when

495
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 5: she has been sent to Louisiana, they've just gotten an

496
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 5: extension on having to return her to Vermont, where they

497
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 5: quickly moved her to avoid jurisdiction from a Massachusetts court.

498
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 5: But this has implications for every single American because we

499
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 5: have a president who is now also expelling American citizens

500
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 5: and has threatened to do this same process that we

501
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 5: saw in her case, that we saw with people sent

502
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 5: to Al Salvador to a facility that is basically a

503
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 5: torture camp without any due process. And I don't think

504
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 5: that Americans disagree that if you illegally are here, if

505
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 5: you did not go through an asylum process, if you're

506
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 5: not a legal resident here or a citizen, and you

507
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 5: have committed a serious crime, that you should be deported.

508
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 5: I think people agree around that, But what strikes them

509
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 5: as completely out of line, unfair, unconstitutional is deporting people

510
00:29:54,400 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 5: without any way of appealing return ticket, without any proof

511
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 5: that they are who he says he is. They may

512
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 5: be gang members or they may not. That's why we

513
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 5: have due process, so people have a day in qirk.

514
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 5: And when we start erooting it for people that we're

515
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 5: unsure of that we don't like their political opinions. We

516
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 5: don't like a student op ed peek is that somebody

517
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 5: wrote without any accountability. Then it gets very very dark quickly,

518
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 5: and it's really hard to say we are going to

519
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 5: stand up for American citizens, especially when Donald Trump is

520
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 5: promising their.

521
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: Next Oh giving me so bad.

522
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 5: I am no longer welcome at dinner party's.

523
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: Connelly has stepped off oversight. He is not well. He

524
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: is an incredible member, stalwart, very great man. Now you

525
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: have oversight, there is of race for ranking on oversight.

526
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: Oversight is an incredibly important committee because part of what

527
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: Oversight can do is get out what Democrats are doing,

528
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: get the message out right, because these hearings are really

529
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: they're televised, they're important, And I think a really good

530
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: example is the Doge hearing. We saw representative from New Mexico, Stansbury.

531
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: She did an absolutely great job on the Doage Committee.

532
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: And what happened was there was real virality for some

533
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: of those quotes and she was able to give as

534
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: good as she got when it came to Marjorie Taylor Green,

535
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: which is not nothing. So now we have Oversight, there's

536
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: going to be a question of who is ranking member.

537
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: There was a lot the public, not just me, feel

538
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: that the party is not doing enough to elevate young people,

539
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 1: not so much because they're young, but because of the

540
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: communication issues that younger people tend to be. And this

541
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: is not always true, but certainly on Oversight, the younger

542
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: people like AOC and also Jasmine Crockett are really capable

543
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: when it comes to social media in a way that

544
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: maybe some of the older members aren't. So what do

545
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: you say to Democrats who are frustrated that they feel

546
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: that there's not enough of an effort to elevate younger

547
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: people in these leadership positions. I think ultimately the big

548
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: question is really just who can get the message out

549
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: there louder, more than whether or not you know, sort

550
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: of anything else. But you know, it is this idea,

551
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: if we are in a democratic emergency, which I think

552
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: all of us feel, should there really be an emphasis

553
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: on trying to elevate people who can transmit that in

554
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: a public forum.

555
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 5: And so I'd love you to talk about that. Yeah, listen,

556
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 5: I would say that we agree. And part of what

557
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 5: I love about our caucus is that we really do

558
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 5: reflect the American peaceeople, and when I look across the aisle,

559
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 5: I don't see it. We are the most diverse caucus

560
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 5: in the history of Congress. We look like people look,

561
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 5: and we are of all ages, and I think there

562
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 5: is a role for all of it. But I think

563
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 5: you can look at we have internal elections for our

564
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 5: communications team, the folks members of Congress that are part

565
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 5: of the leadership team that really help us think about

566
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 5: better ways to innovate, communicate using new media. You know,

567
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 5: it's we are so beyond the newspaper cable news world.

568
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 5: We have to be on YouTube, on social media, on podcasts,

569
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 5: meeting people where they get their news. And that's why

570
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 5: we elected Maxwell Frost, that's why Lauren Underwood is there.

571
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 5: These new voices are very important, and those are just

572
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 5: two examples. You know, Robert Garcia another really critical voice

573
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 5: that sits on our leadership table, and Jasmine Crockett as well,

574
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 5: like these are voices that are so central to our success.

575
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 5: We want young people and we want every age, every

576
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 5: American to be able to look at Congress and see

577
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 5: themselves reflected back, not just in the policies, but because

578
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 5: they see people talking to them who share their life experience.

579
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 5: Because that's the idea that we come from different parts

580
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 5: of the country, different ideologies, and different life paths and

581
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 5: different glide paths, different ages, and we come together and

582
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 5: we make a better product. And that is something that

583
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 5: we take very seriously, and especially in these roles around communication.

584
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,919
Speaker 5: There has been a real elevation of those who who

585
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 5: are younger, who are just very comfortable and understand social

586
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 5: media and way that if you didn't grow up with

587
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 5: it is a different understanding. And frankly, we just have

588
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 5: some incredible political talents that happen to also be young members.

589
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 5: So let's elevate them. It doesn't mean there isn't room.

590
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 5: I am part of a leadership team that just moved

591
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 5: in and relaced a very long so I think the

592
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 5: Democratic Party is not only open to this, we're actively

593
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 5: using our younger members and promoting them and strategizing with them.

594
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Trump is crashing the economy. Tariffs are a real problem.

595
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: There are legislative blocks to Trump's tariffs. They have the

596
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: numbers in the Senate to block the tariffs. Do they

597
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: have the numbers in the House. I think they probably don't.

598
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: But I'm just curious if you think there's any sort

599
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: of hail mary on the tariffs.

600
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 5: There was a brief moment there when these years in

601
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 5: the stock market was in an absolute free fall. I

602
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 5: mean the fact that numbers came out today, our economy

603
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 5: is actually contracted, and we know that over eleven trillion

604
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 5: dollars has disappeared out of Americans pockets because of the

605
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 5: actions that Donald Trump has taken. But it's far more

606
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 5: than just the stock market going down. Even though that

607
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 5: impact on four to one kes like, I am not

608
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 5: under estimating that and that is a very real loss.

609
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 5: But it's when I talked to like the small and

610
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 5: micro businesses in my district that are so terrified to

611
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 5: watch everything they have built feel is just slipping through

612
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 5: their fingers. We did a round table last week with

613
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 5: Hispanic small business owners in my district and the story

614
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 5: is about the construction firms that have been built, but

615
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 5: now their bids don't make sense anymore. They're not profitable,

616
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 5: and they're locked in because the price of aluminum and

617
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 5: lumber has all gone up and the job they bid

618
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 5: is no longer going to make them money. Talking to

619
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 5: a local fashion designer about how she needs to not

620
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 5: only sell her beautiful designs, she needs to sell a

621
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 5: story that makes people want to invest in her clothes

622
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 5: instead of buying something mass produced. But when you are

623
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 5: spending all your money on the increase in her inputs,

624
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 5: in her fabrics, in the things she needs to make

625
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 5: her clothes, she doesn't have a marketing budget anymore, and

626
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 5: that is how she is able to sustain her business.

627
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 5: And so these these tariffs are having impacts on the

628
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 5: largest international companies that come and meet with me, but

629
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 5: it's also affecting our main street. And my real concern

630
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 5: is that with all of this, it is not an

631
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 5: on and off switch that we can say, well, wait

632
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 5: till Donald Trump is out of here, or wait till

633
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 5: we win the midterms, and then we'll just turn it

634
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 5: back on. One example, Molly from my district, I am

635
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 5: so fortunate to sit in this cradle of innovation. We're

636
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 5: the best in the world at taking ideas out of

637
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 5: the academic lab and putting them into the marketplace, and

638
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 5: that means delivering hope and cures for Alzheimer's, for cancer,

639
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 5: for diabetes, for als.

640
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: So you're affected by the NIH grants, the NIH friend.

641
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 5: And we are going to lose these scientists to other countries.

642
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: The NIH grants. From what I understand, Elon decided to

643
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: cap indirect funding at fifteen percent because he didn't like

644
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: the idea that these grant recipients were getting indirect funding

645
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: that could be as high as eighty percent of the

646
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: grant because he didn't maybe understand how grant funding works

647
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: and didn't understand that this indirect funding is for microscopes,

648
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: and you know the kind of people work in the

649
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: labs and upkeep of the labs, et cetera, et cetera.

650
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: Now a lot of doge has been reversed. People have

651
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: been rehired. Has that happened within AH funding or is

652
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: it just frozen or where is it?

653
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 5: Yeah? I mean that is an excellent question because a

654
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 5: lot of it is in limbo and we have these

655
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 5: champions historically on the other side of the aisle who've

656
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 5: just gone mute. I mean it has been Republicans on Appropriations,

657
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 5: which is committee I sat on for years before coming

658
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 5: into this leadership position, who really understood that those you

659
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 5: know we talk about indirect costs, they're really facility costs,

660
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 5: and they are part of what we have decided as

661
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 5: a federal government is good for making that investment and

662
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 5: fundamental research that then we can partner with private entities

663
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 5: and make sure that we are delivering cures, that we're

664
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 5: delivering hope and research and technology that then we sell globally.

665
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 5: So this is it's good for people, it's good for

666
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 5: families searching for some cure for their child's cancer diagnosis,

667
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 5: and it is good for our economy. Why would we

668
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 5: seed that? But this is exactly what DOGE did. They

669
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 5: came in, they broke things in order to rob you

670
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 5: of that funding, and there was an absolute carelessness and

671
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 5: casual cruelty to it all. That comes with people who

672
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 5: are insulated by great wealth from anything bad happening to

673
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 5: them or their family. And that the way they went

674
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 5: in not only into our private data, but just treated

675
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 5: things like clinical trials. We have heard stories of constituents

676
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 5: who were scheduled for surgeries that have been canceled. So

677
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 5: while they say, well, we're going to you know, this

678
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 5: funding is technically may come once this court case is resolved.

679
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 5: That surgery is over that trial. It's over those scientists.

680
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 5: And there was a poll today of sixteen hundred scientists

681
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 5: in Nature magazine. Seventy five percent of them are looking

682
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 5: to move abroad because they can't see the future here.

683
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 5: And that's what I mean by these impacts could be generational.

684
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 5: And why would we take that innovation economy that Americans

685
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 5: have always been at the cutting edge of and give

686
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 5: that just give that away for some you know, ill conceived,

687
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 5: not thought out, not data driven, set of hackers following

688
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 5: Elon Musk into our systems, into the programs that people

689
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 5: rely on. And this research and using research dollars as

690
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 5: a way to sort of get into a power struggle

691
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 5: with the universities around the country is just so misguided.

692
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 5: And the impact of all of this comes back to

693
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 5: people at home. To people at home are working hard

694
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 5: and they frankly don't feel like the system works for

695
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 5: them now, and they're looking for people to say we're

696
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 5: going to do better, but breaking everything, holding up research

697
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 5: dollars because you don't like a political opinion, abducting people

698
00:42:54,480 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 5: off our streets, taking away jobs, ruining contracts for agriculture,

699
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 5: and farmers facing great uncertainty. None of this is about

700
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 5: building the American dream, about creating opportunity, about creating efficiency

701
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 5: in the way we serve people. And it's just such

702
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 5: a cruel, calculated assessment. We're going to take this away

703
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 5: from you. We are going to create cynicism around government

704
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 5: programs because when they break, they don't work well, and

705
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 5: then we'll either privatize them or just cut them. And

706
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 5: who is the only one who benefits The very, very wealthiest,

707
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 5: the most powerful people. They'll be getting a tax cut

708
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 5: that the rest of you are going to pay for.

709
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 5: I mean, it's as dystopian as it comes. We have

710
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 5: to look at who we are, and we've got a

711
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 5: fight for this country, and we have to make sure

712
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 5: that everything we do is centered around folks at home.

713
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 5: You know, the ninety nine percent of us who work

714
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 5: for a living and who feel real frustration about they

715
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 5: work hard and they're not getting ahead. But they're certainly

716
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 5: not going to have better luck if they don't have healthcare,

717
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 5: if they don't have their veterans benefits, if social security

718
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 5: is dismantled, and all these fundamental needs that people have

719
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 5: to take it away in order to make the winner

720
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 5: circle so small in this country for those who already

721
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 5: have great wealth is so upside down in perverse and

722
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 5: we just every day we are showing up and fighting back.

723
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: Thank you, Representative Clark, thank you, thank you, thank you

724
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 1: for joining us. That was great.

725
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 3: Thank you.

726
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: Mollie will Sommer is a reporter at The Bulwark. Welcome

727
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics.

728
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 3: Will Sommer, Hey, thanks for having me.

729
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: We needed to talk about what the fuck is going

730
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: on because the maga media industrial complex is so in

731
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: the zeitgeist at this moment for a lot of even

732
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: more dysfunction than the usual dysfunction. So I would love

733
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: for you, I think of you as the guy who

734
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: knows about the mega media complex to explain to us

735
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: where are our favorite or in this case, least favorite players.

736
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: Where do we find them in twenty twenty.

737
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 3: Five, they're thriving for the most part. I mean, I

738
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 3: think they're enjoying more influence than we ever could have imagined.

739
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 3: I mean, the White House now this week has held

740
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 3: three influencer briefings where they kind of bring me three. Yeah,

741
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 3: and they're probably another one, you know, another one coming

742
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 3: this week. I mean it's like day to day and

743
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 3: so they'd bring in you know, sort of a sideshow

744
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 3: freak show.

745
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: If I could say as much, it's Sobiac, it's who else.

746
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 3: Well, they have a new cast every day, and they

747
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 3: have a new at least one of them will have

748
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 3: some sordid backstory, you know. Be They had a woman

749
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: on Monday who this Texas woman who is most famous

750
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 3: previously for thinking the moon disappeared. She had tweeted, anyone

751
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 3: seen the moon in a while? It went away? Yeah? Yeah,

752
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 3: we got Jack Pasobic. We've got c. J. Pearson, who's

753
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: kind of like a young Naga guy. We've got this

754
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 3: guy named Dom Luker who's like a conspiracy theorist who's

755
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 3: very popular on Twitter. He famously was banned from Twitter

756
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 3: for posting child porn. Uh you know that he got

757
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 3: back on. I mean it's it's a real it's a

758
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 3: real Rogues gallery.

759
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: So this crew they do the MAGA briefings. And are

760
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 1: they are the MAGA Briefings any different than the regular.

761
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say the tone is different. I mean

762
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 3: the you know, Caroline Lovitt acts like, you know, she's

763
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 3: going over to her best friend's house. I mean, she's

764
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 3: just she says, oh my gosh, I could go around

765
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 3: with you guys all day. We're having so much fun.

766
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 3: And then she poses for pictures with them, and they

767
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 3: asked these questions, like you know, the famously I think

768
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 3: the one a lot of people saw on social media

769
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 3: with link Lauren, who's kind of like an RFK crony.

770
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 3: He looks like Draco Malfoy, so he's got like the

771
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 3: like the platinum hair, and he got up there and

772
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 3: he said, you know, Caroline, like, you're such an inspiration

773
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 3: for American moms by comparison.

774
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw that.

775
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, so many parents were killing themselves under the Biden

776
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 3: administration because he was such a bad president. How do

777
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: you do it? It's a lot along those lines.

778
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: But they also have during the regular briefings, they have

779
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: a new media seat, which is a MAGA influencer seat

780
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: to explain what that is.

781
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the new media seat is this seat such

782
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: as it is that they made, and it's weird, right,

783
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 3: it's right by the press secretary. They claim it's to

784
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 3: you know, open things up. But traditionally or you know,

785
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,479
Speaker 3: what it's been so far is I would say eighty

786
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 3: to ninety percent maga, either from a right wing outlet

787
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: or you know, even you know, more ridiculously, just like

788
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 3: someone with a Twitter account or an Instagram account. And

789
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: then every so often they'll put in like they put

790
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 3: axios there the first day, they put the Philly Inquirer

791
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 3: a few days ago, the Fame like two hundred year

792
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 3: old newspaper. But like clearly they're trying to make it

793
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 3: not just all maga, so they have a little plausible deniability,

794
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 3: and so then those people ask questions like Timpoole famously

795
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 3: was in it last week and he said, you know,

796
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 3: wouldn't you say that, like, you know, the media is

797
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 3: a bunch of scumbacks essentially, and that they're they're so

798
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 3: rude to me and the rest of the new media crew.

799
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 3: So you know, this is what we're what the press

800
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 3: operation looks like at the White House.

801
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: These days, timpoole like he's clearly losing his hair. Just

802
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: we know the Beanie is not fooling anyone.

803
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 3: He's not the first guy to go bald. And you know,

804
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 3: it is fascinating that he's sticking with the beanie. I mean,

805
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 3: he wore it Tamara Lago to some like gala. So

806
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 3: he's wearing like a tux and a beanie and he

807
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 3: doesn't even have a formal beanie. It's like always the

808
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 3: same beanie.

809
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 1: So summer, I feel like the Beanie when it hits summer,

810
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: like you gotta there's no one else wearing a hat

811
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: a winter hat.

812
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 3: Right, I mean yeah, someone pointed out, like when he

813
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 3: was at the White House wearing the Beauty, the temperature

814
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 3: in DC was like eighty degree.

815
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: I mean, it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

816
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: So let's talk about what sort of where we are

817
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 1: with this crew. We have Laura Lumer, who is pretty

818
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: much in and out of this White House as far

819
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: as I can tell. Mike Walls, I don't know if

820
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: he got fired or if he left at his own volition,

821
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: but he is out as we tape this. Talk to

822
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: me about sort of Lumour's influence here.

823
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is an interesting one. I mean, so Laura

824
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 3: Lumer has been on this campaign for a month or

825
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 3: so to purge elements of the National Security Council. This

826
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 3: was this started a few days after Signal Gate kicked off,

827
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 3: and she was really successful and she got a bunch

828
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 3: of people fired. She maybe got the head of the

829
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 3: National Security Agency has also fired at the time. That's nice,

830
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 3: and I mean she met with Trump to do all

831
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 3: this stuff and then you know, and what's not saying

832
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 3: to me is like, this is someone who a few

833
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 3: years ago, even with Mago World, was like persona non grata.

834
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,720
Speaker 3: I mean, she chained herself to the door of Twitter.

835
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 3: She did all these really desperate stunts that even those

836
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 3: people were like, oh boy, I don't know, I want

837
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: to associate with this person. And now she's I don't know,

838
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 3: the most powerful person in the national security apparatus outside

839
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,919
Speaker 3: of government. I mean she so so today she got

840
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 3: well who's to say why. We don't really know yet

841
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 3: quite why Mike Waltz was fired, but his deputy now he.

842
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: Was fired or do we think he just laughed.

843
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 3: I don't think it's confirmed, but I think it's probably

844
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 3: fair to say that he was fired his deputy, Alex Wong,

845
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 3: who was Lumer's number one target, and so she tweeted Scalp.

846
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 3: So she, obviously, I think, is trying to take credit

847
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 3: at least for Wong getting fired. There's so much like

848
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 3: criminology that goes into what's going on here. I mean,

849
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 3: how much is she acting on behalf of like a

850
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 3: rival faction within the Trump administration? Are they digging up

851
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 3: this stuff? You know, it gets very complex, but we

852
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 3: have to speculate a lot. But I think, you know,

853
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 3: the idea that she has any sort of influence over

854
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 3: the administration, especially this much influence, is really wild.

855
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: It is wild.

856
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 5: Wild is the word.

857
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: So I just want you to kind of explain to

858
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: us there is this same group of media influencers. There's

859
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: a certain kind of trumpy. There's like a lot of

860
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: money making going on here too. Can you talk us

861
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,399
Speaker 1: through like meme coins. You know, there's a lot of

862
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 1: like Liberty I saw Liberty Financial has gotten involved again.

863
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: I remember them from Seapack. Like, it seems like a

864
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: lot of people are making money on this admin in

865
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: ways they maybe didn't the first administration.

866
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean the one that's

867
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 3: top of mind is The Times just has an article

868
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 3: now about how Trump coined the Abu Dabi government is

869
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 3: going to do a deal for two billion dollars involving

870
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 3: trump Coin, involving the cryptocurrency change finance at the Times

871
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 3: that like even in there's one and of course the

872
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 3: guy announcing this it's the fun though wit cough So

873
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 3: the Time says, you know, even within this sentence, there

874
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 3: are so many conflicts of interest in this one or

875
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 3: two lines that he said describing this deal. It's true.

876
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 3: I mean there's just every which way. I mean, it's

877
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 3: almost hard to keep your eye on all the conflicts

878
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 3: of interests and all the grips. But I agree with

879
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,720
Speaker 3: you that it seems, you know, in the first administration,

880
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 3: we were talking about like our foreign government buying rooms at

881
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 3: the Trump hotel, and so what is that bringing in

882
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of dollars? And now we're talking about

883
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: potentially billions of dollars.

884
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: It seems like a lot more money. And it also

885
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: seems like this crew is more embedded than they were

886
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: last time. Wonder if you could talk about that, Like

887
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, there was a maga media, but it

888
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: didn't have it was not as developed, and there still

889
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: was a mainstream media. I feel like now there isn't

890
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: as much mainstream media, and the mega media is so

891
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: developed that they don't it's almost like they don't need

892
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: the mainstream media anymore. So talk to us about that.

893
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 3: I think that's right. I mean, I think the Trump

894
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 3: White House is being very smart about giving a just

895
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 3: a huge amount of access to these right wing media figures.

896
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 3: You know, we mentioned the influencer briefing, but they're also

897
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 3: bringing them in, I think at least twice a month

898
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,720
Speaker 3: at this point, bring people in to just interview cabinet

899
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 3: secretaries and just do these kind of like very like

900
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 3: messaging type things with radio hosts, Instagram influencers, whatever. I

901
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 3: think the administration is sort of trying to edge out

902
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 3: the mainstream media and just sort of issue more pronouncements

903
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 3: through outlets that they control. And so you know, we're

904
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 3: seeing that also. I mean a lot of these people

905
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 3: literally in the government. You know, the FBI director Cash

906
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 3: Bettel was a big right wing media figure, Dan Bongino,

907
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 3: the deputy FBI director, I mean, Pete Eggsath, right, I

908
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 3: mean there's so many examples of this. I just had

909
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 3: a story today about Armie Dillon, who is sort of

910
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 3: famous as like a maga media legal figure who's now

911
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 3: the deputy of the or the head of the DOJ's

912
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 3: Civil Rights Division and seems to spend most of her

913
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 3: day just tweeting about you know, TWR followers about you know,

914
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 3: what she's up to. In a way, it's like these

915
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 3: right wing mediafigures are still in they're in the government,

916
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 3: but they seem to still see themselves as rightly media

917
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 3: figures with audience that they have to feed and stuff

918
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 3: like that.

919
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 1: I have two questions about Hamid Dylan and also Cash Patel.

920
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:21,280
Speaker 1: These guys were media people. Are they doing their jobs

921
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: now like it seems like Cash Patel seems I mean,

922
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,479
Speaker 1: we probably shouldn't say it is, because we're all gonna

923
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: end up in GIMO, but he seems awfully quiet.

924
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 3: Yes, he does well. Famously, he doesn't live in DC.

925
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 3: I believe he lives in Las Vegas, right and it's

926
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 3: sort of commuting such as it is. You know, a

927
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 3: lot of these people, I think they are they're doing

928
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 3: the eye did the job with kind of an eye

929
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 3: on the right wing audience and the MAGA base. You know,

930
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 3: I think about Pam Bondi handing out those Epstein binders

931
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 3: to the right wing influencers, supposedly because she felt like,

932
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 3: you know, she she hadn't wooed them enough, which you

933
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 3: know is like a legitimate concern for her. When we

934
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 3: see that Laura Lumer can kind of chop heads off

935
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 3: on the NSC, you know. Similarly, you know someone like

936
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 3: Dan bongee know, who is constantly posting like, you know,

937
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 3: stop bugging me. We're working on it, you know, just

938
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 3: around the corner, big results ahead. So you know, these

939
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 3: people are really like forward facing towards the public in

940
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 3: a way that you know, he told all the FBI

941
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 3: Field office directors that they need to get on social media,

942
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 3: and so now they're all all these like old white

943
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 3: guys in suits are recording like short form video content.

944
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: How much of this is the actual job? Media influencer

945
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: and the Civil Rights Division don't seem like a Venn

946
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: diagram with a lot of mutual.

947
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 3: You would think, I think traditionally, you know, I was

948
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: thinking about it, and I was like, well, how did

949
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 3: the previous heads of the Civil Rights Division act? And

950
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 3: obviously it's no one we've ever heard of.

951
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: Regrets.

952
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 3: But when you think about I mean, in Harmy Dillon's case,

953
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 3: I mean, she is turning this office into you know,

954
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 3: what was once about police brutality, voting rights, et cetera,

955
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 3: and now it's going to be about you know, focusing

956
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 3: on quote anti Christian discrimination, trans women in sports, this

957
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. And so you know, it's more right

958
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 3: wing culture war. That's why roughly half the lawyers are

959
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 3: expected to quit there. So I think, you know, if

960
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 3: you look at it from that perspective as like, how

961
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 3: can I get on Fox News? How can I do podcasts?

962
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 3: I mean that that all makes sense. She tweeted at

963
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,359
Speaker 3: one point, you know, okay, like first week on the job,

964
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 3: what podcast should I go on? You know, and and

965
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 3: a lot of her bands said, you know, hey, you're

966
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 3: supposed to be sending Hillary Clinton to Guantanamo Bay. What

967
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:23,959
Speaker 3: are you doing?

968
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does seem like there's a real tension there

969
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: between doing their job and delivering from MAGA. One of

970
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: the things we're talking about these Epstein binders. When Bondi

971
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: gave the Epstein binders to the influencers, some of them

972
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: were actually pretty disappointed about what was in them, So

973
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: talk us through that.

974
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right. I mean there is

975
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 3: a tension between they. I think the conservative base and

976
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 3: the audience, and these personalities as well has been raised

977
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,839
Speaker 3: and taught to that they can basically whatever they want,

978
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 3: and if they don't, it's because the deep state is

979
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 3: betraying them, or the rhinos are after them or whatever.

980
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 3: You know. We saw this in the in the twenty

981
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 3: twenty election, where Fox is saying, oh my gosh, you know,

982
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 3: we have to tell them the election was stolen because

983
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 3: our audience is so that they believe it is. And

984
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 3: so in this case, let's take the Epstein binders. I mean,

985
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 3: Pambondi claimed at one point the Epstein client list was

986
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 3: on her desk, but we're all getting ready to release it,

987
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 3: you know, everyone who's familiar with Epstein and step says, well, actually,

988
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 3: that client list probably is mythical, that doesn't really exist.

989
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 3: So instead she gets some documents they're kind of already

990
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 3: public or whatever. We can look at our Robert F. Kennedy,

991
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 3: who is obviously a big anti vaccine guy. Then suddenly

992
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 3: two children die in Texas of measles, and he has

993
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 3: to come out and say well, yeah, I guess you should.

994
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 3: You should take the measles vaccine, although he's now walking

995
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 3: that back and saying, well, you know, it's reasonable for

996
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 3: people not to want to take the vaccine, and you know,

997
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 3: we need to take care of them in other ways,

998
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 3: and maybe it's not that big a deal.

999
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: That's sort of where I'm getting too with this. I

1000
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: would love to get back to this just the Epstein stuff.

1001
00:57:59,720 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 3: First.

1002
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: There is no there there. I mean, there's there there,

1003
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: but there's no new information there right as far as

1004
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:07,439
Speaker 1: you can tell.

1005
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it's sort of like the

1006
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 3: JFK files. I think there's material that could come out

1007
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 3: that would be interesting. People who have followed the case

1008
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 3: really closely. It'say, oh, you know that that adds sort

1009
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 3: of a new detail we didn't know. But I think

1010
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 3: that that in terms of like yeah, right, I mean,

1011
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 3: they're expecting like Oprah and Tom Hanks and all these

1012
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 3: other people to be on this list. They expect like

1013
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 3: every prominent liberal to be on the list. And you know,

1014
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 3: so in Pam Bondi's case, I mean that means she

1015
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 3: has to you know, what's she going to do? I

1016
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 3: don't know. I mean I think she has tried to

1017
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 3: delay this as long as possible. You know. Recording from

1018
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 3: our reporting from our colleague Noah Shackman claims that the

1019
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 3: prosecutors in New York have basically all been detailed to

1020
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 3: redacting these files and getting them ready to release such

1021
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 3: as they are. You know, at the same time, we

1022
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 3: have someone like Anapoline a Luna and Congress the Republican

1023
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 3: putting pressure on and saying like, hey, Pam Bondi, it's

1024
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 3: time to put out the files. So, you know, I

1025
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 3: think Pam Bondi's in a tough spot there.

1026
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 1: And this is the RFK stuff. They're all in an

1027
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: impossible situation, right, RFK. Clearly we saw this today. They're

1028
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: making moves to try to go after vaccines. There's a

1029
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: new placebo testing way to test a vaccine, completely unnecessarily

1030
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: meant to make life harder for vaccine companies. It strikes

1031
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: me that that RFK Junior anything less than taking away

1032
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 1: vaccines will be a failure on his part, right, I

1033
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: think that's right.

1034
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I mean, the the people have been

1035
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 3: taught that vaccines are you know, killing people and all

1036
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 3: this stuff, and so then the government to say, well,

1037
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe we'll just make the vaccine development

1038
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 3: a little slower. But yeah, the poisons took about, I mean,

1039
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 3: it doesn't make any sense, you know. I've been reading,

1040
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 3: you know, these RFK supporters and how they're grappling with it,

1041
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 3: and one of these influencers was saying, you know, well,

1042
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 3: RFK maybe doesn't have the political cloud to ban ban vaccines,

1043
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 3: but maybe he can kind of nibble at it around

1044
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 3: the edges, which sort of makes sense, I guess. But

1045
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 3: at the same time, I mean, if this situation is

1046
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 3: as dire as they claim it as, you would think that,

1047
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 3: you know, they'd be more aggressive. I think a lot

1048
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,959
Speaker 3: of the anti vaccine people are also concerned that he's

1049
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 3: focused too much on these more palatable political goals like

1050
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 3: danning artificial dyes and foods, and from their perspective, like

1051
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 3: they couldn't care less about that. I mean, why did

1052
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 3: they care if you know, hot cheetos are a little

1053
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 3: less bright. I mean they think this is kind of

1054
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 3: this like huge struggle in terms of vaccines.

1055
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: Is there stuff getting accomplished on the foodside, the food

1056
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: die side.

1057
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 3: Well, it's very bigue. I mean, there's been a lot

1058
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 3: of you know, it's kind of a very Trumpian, you know.

1059
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 3: I think about the tariffs and that the oh we

1060
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 3: have a deal, No, we have a deal to discuss

1061
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 3: a deal, this kind of stuff, and so in the

1062
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 3: same way our case saying well, you know, I'm maybe

1063
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 3: meeting with these food companies and you know, meanwhile absolutely

1064
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 3: slashing the budget for researching and you know, finding out

1065
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 3: new medical cures and stuff like that.

1066
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, just tell me what you're watching at this minute

1067
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: in MAGA, the Megamedia Industrial Complex.

1068
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 3: I'm always inn in these influencers that the White House

1069
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 3: is elevating. I think that that's interesting. I feel like

1070
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 3: there's there's going to be an appetite for as clearly

1071
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 3: if Trump sticks with the terrorists, I think the administration

1072
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 3: is about to hit a really rough patch, and I'm

1073
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 3: looking out for if there's going to be a new

1074
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 3: q Andon type thing that really takes things from the

1075
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 3: from you know, kind of Fox Move talking points into

1076
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 3: like a realm of new reality where you know, we

1077
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 3: can say, well, the real reason Trump is failing is

1078
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 3: because of this sinister cabal or something like that. Because

1079
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 3: I think obviously Trump will lose supporters, but I think

1080
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 3: the kind of the hardcore base is going to look

1081
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 3: for something that is so crazy that they can just

1082
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 3: ignore what's going on. And so what that looks like,

1083
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I'm looking for it.

1084
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: So interesting.

1085
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 3: Thank you, Will somer Hey, thanks for having me no moment.

1086
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon, Molly Jungfest.

1087
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 2: So it's been a while since a profile really rocked

1088
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 2: the political world the way this one did today. Bed

1089
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 2: Terris first up, he's for New York magazine. Bed's a

1090
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 2: friend of the Pod.

1091
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 1: Of course, and used to be at the Washingbos.

1092
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 2: Yes, he did a profile where he talked to a

1093
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 2: lot of former John Fetterman staffers, and I have to

1094
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: say the tail it weaves does not sound good.

1095
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1096
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: Again, I don't know what's happening with John Fetterman. But

1097
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: what this story seems to talk about is how much

1098
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: he is just not himself, right. I think that's that

1099
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: he's not the person he was, and that he's just

1100
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: not back to normal in the way that I think

1101
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: a lot of us hoped he would be, and just

1102
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: that he's had a real personality shift since his stroke. Again,

1103
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: I I don't know what happens now. I don't know

1104
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: what the story there is we hope that he gets better.

1105
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: We hope that he doesn't hurt himself or anyone else.

1106
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Pollings. Tune in

1107
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best

1108
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

1109
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

1110
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.