Speaker 1: I've always looked at any sector that I've been interested
Speaker 1: in as how do I get in there and find
Speaker 1: my place in this space? Right? I think, especially for
Speaker 1: a lot of us that come from our communities, you
Speaker 1: don't see yourself in certain situations, so you think it's
Speaker 1: not for you, right or you think, oh, man, I
Speaker 1: don't have a background that matches what I've seen traditionally,
Speaker 1: So let me go look somewhere else. And where I've
Speaker 1: kind of always approached it like, well, if I don't
Speaker 1: see me in a certain area, that's an opportunity. Let
Speaker 1: me go in there and make a space for me,
Speaker 1: and I can bring other people with me. Now I
Speaker 1: can build to motor around what I do because nobody
Speaker 1: here can can can match my skill set. I'm Will
Speaker 1: Lucas and this is black Tech, green money. I want
Speaker 1: to answer this to some of the biggest names, some
Speaker 1: of the brightest minds and brilliant ideas. If you're black
Speaker 1: and building for simply using tech to secure your back.
Speaker 1: This podcast is Feeling Andrew Lawkins, a k A Hawk.
Speaker 1: It's a former NFL wide receiver, having played six season
Speaker 1: in the league with teams like the Bengals, the Browns,
Speaker 1: and the Patriots Today's the media personality and co founder
Speaker 1: of Status Pro, an athlete lead technology company which makes
Speaker 1: software for training and consumer entertainment. Status Pro has raised
Speaker 1: more than five million dollars in boast and enviable list
Speaker 1: of investors like Lebron James, theome Os, mav Card Drake
Speaker 1: and others. Horse Company is set to release NFL pro Era,
Speaker 1: a VR game from metal Quest and PlayStation, the first
Speaker 1: officially licensed NFL VR title. I talked with so many
Speaker 1: games becoming more lifelike. How important is real player data
Speaker 1: to the experience of gameplay? I think if we're going
Speaker 1: to drill in on what you know, authenticity looks like
Speaker 1: in a gaming environment, it is important, you know, for
Speaker 1: people to really experience the speed of certain things. Now,
Speaker 1: obviously we want to slow it down. People have fun.
Speaker 1: That's that's the chief goal of anything we do from
Speaker 1: a gaming product standpoint. But the ability to ramp up
Speaker 1: and really see how fast decisions need to be made.
Speaker 1: When you're talking about it immersing world like virtual reality,
Speaker 1: we think it's super important. Right, So we're gonna give
Speaker 1: you all the bells and whistles of the feeling you
Speaker 1: get in the tunnel when you're running out onto the
Speaker 1: field and all the hoopla and the kind of man,
Speaker 1: what if moments that people think about when they think
Speaker 1: of playing professional sports. But we're also going to give
Speaker 1: you the actual data on the other side of it too,
Speaker 1: And I think it just helps rope in the entire
Speaker 1: loop of authenticity that we kind of preach it status pro.
Speaker 1: Does that mean more than just the numbers, but also
Speaker 1: if if a QB is slower, then the player in
Speaker 1: the game will actually be slower too. Yes, what's something
Speaker 1: we'll build upon. I think, um, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think VR in itself is it's a it's a
Speaker 1: it's an emerging tech, and so we understand that our
Speaker 1: game maybe the first time a lot of people even
Speaker 1: experienced VR, right, and so we're trying to make sure
Speaker 1: the product mature is alongside the consumer. But to your point, yeah,
Speaker 1: that I mean, there's really an endless amount of of
Speaker 1: of data that we can put into our AI, which
Speaker 1: we've done so in a very pointed way, from you know,
Speaker 1: what plays a specific team would run, what kind of
Speaker 1: defense is there's a coach like the call right, And
Speaker 1: we've had the luxury of building that AI and machine
Speaker 1: learning in from the very beginning, and so it's gonna
Speaker 1: mature with the more data sets that are available, you know,
Speaker 1: and we use a number of those things, including players
Speaker 1: speeds and data. And to your point that you know,
Speaker 1: when you embody UH a player, eventually you will match
Speaker 1: the attributes that they are as a player. And this
Speaker 1: first version we've kind of really drove down on you
Speaker 1: as a quarterback, so you will be the quarterback of
Speaker 1: your favorite team as opposed to taking on the attributes
Speaker 1: of other players. But that's absolutely in the pipeline. So
Speaker 1: every couch quarterback believes they could have made that pass
Speaker 1: at the quarterback blue, you know, on Sunday Football or
Speaker 1: whatever Monday night football. Like, part of your effort, I
Speaker 1: believe is to help better understand what it takes to
Speaker 1: compete at the highest levels, you know, as you know,
Speaker 1: playing a first person UH game from a first person perspective,
Speaker 1: does this help solve that? Like, so all those people
Speaker 1: who believe, man, I could have made that, you know,
Speaker 1: does this help solve that problem for real athletes? I
Speaker 1: would say yes or no. I would say yes or no.
Speaker 1: I think we we used it on the on the
Speaker 1: training side, right, so we can see me like that
Speaker 1: decision making for an NFL quarterback and things will move
Speaker 1: almost one the one at the speed that you would
Speaker 1: see in an actual game. But if people had the
Speaker 1: ability to process information and make those decisions that way,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't need a v our game to fill what
Speaker 1: it's like to be NFL quarterback because you would be
Speaker 1: that right, And even by NFL quarterback standards, there are
Speaker 1: quarterbacks that are starting quarterbacks that can't make decisions and
Speaker 1: process as fast as Tom Brady, right, So it's it's
Speaker 1: definitely a sliding scale. And so you know, we can
Speaker 1: simulate that four elite level athletes to be able to
Speaker 1: get as close to a one to one experience um
Speaker 1: as we can get. But I think for the gaming
Speaker 1: side of things, man, I mean, we want to have
Speaker 1: it fun, Like I said, that is our chief goal
Speaker 1: with that, And yeah, it'll be intense. You'll definitely get
Speaker 1: the feel of all the different factors that go win
Speaker 1: on every single play, and you will probably have a
Speaker 1: higher respect for quarterbacks. But if you're not having fun,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna come back. So we we definitely slow
Speaker 1: it down a little bit so that we can keep
Speaker 1: you coming back for more because so I've heard you
Speaker 1: say this a couple of times. You know that you
Speaker 1: that you really want to help people get an understanding
Speaker 1: for how fast the game moves for people who won't
Speaker 1: will never have that experience of being on an NFL
Speaker 1: you know, Gridiron talk about if you can make it
Speaker 1: relatable to us, you know, how fast the game actually
Speaker 1: moves versus what we see sitting in the seats. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And like I said, man, I'm gonna keep drilling down
Speaker 1: on this, the speed of the game is ridiculous, man,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, it's I would say, in snap second.
Speaker 1: You have to make decisions, and it's honestly even faster
Speaker 1: than that. So that's why you practice so much. You
Speaker 1: practice so much in a professional sports environments that your
Speaker 1: instincts kick in and that way you can react even
Speaker 1: faster than it takes for you to cognitively think of
Speaker 1: what to do next. But in the gaming for everybody,
Speaker 1: I think the thing that you'll get most out of
Speaker 1: the experience that we're creating with NFL Pro Era is
Speaker 1: that you just really can see all the factors and
Speaker 1: it is very gratifying to make a play. It's gratifying
Speaker 1: to you know, complete a pass or throw a touchdown
Speaker 1: or get a first down when you consider all the
Speaker 1: different factors that are into a game, and so it
Speaker 1: won't be the speeds of an NFL game and you
Speaker 1: have the ability to ramp it up or ramp it down,
Speaker 1: but again, all the different factors that go into each
Speaker 1: and every game, and the experience of the screaming fans.
Speaker 1: You get the high points, you get the huge d
Speaker 1: n coming right at you, and that's scary ended of itself,
Speaker 1: so you have to think about what do I do
Speaker 1: now in the face of the most fearful looking human
Speaker 1: coming at me at car like speeds, right, And so
Speaker 1: that's the really cool part is that that hasn't been
Speaker 1: democratized before and us being able to us being former
Speaker 1: athletes and being able to put other people in those
Speaker 1: shoes is a really cool thing because you get to
Speaker 1: show people the experience that you have had your whole
Speaker 1: life and may even be a second nature to you
Speaker 1: just just talking about this leap you've because there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of athletes who make the leap from professional
Speaker 1: sports into high tech and so if you can give
Speaker 1: the bridge for us, like how you got here versus
Speaker 1: where you were and we're gonna talk about your your
Speaker 1: sports career, but I want to talk about how you
Speaker 1: made that leap. Well, I mean that's a great question,
Speaker 1: and I think they all kind of tieing together. And
Speaker 1: I would say, how I got to to tech, you know,
Speaker 1: high tech where I'm at from from my career was
Speaker 1: that I feel like in tech tech is you know,
Speaker 1: I talked about this democratizing and experience, and I think
Speaker 1: I've always looked at any sector that I've been interested
Speaker 1: in as how do I get in there and find
Speaker 1: my place in this space? Right? I think, especially for
Speaker 1: a lot of us that come from our communities, you
Speaker 1: don't see yourself in certain situations, so you think it's
Speaker 1: not for you, right or you think, oh, man, I
Speaker 1: don't have a background that matches what I've seen traditionally,
Speaker 1: So let me go look somewhere else. And where I've
Speaker 1: kind of always approached it like, well, if I don't
Speaker 1: see me in a certain area, that's an opportunity. Let
Speaker 1: me go in there and make a space for me,
Speaker 1: and I could bring other people with me. Number one
Speaker 1: and number two. Now I can build a motor around
Speaker 1: what I do because nobody here can can can match
Speaker 1: my skill set, and so you know, when I was playing,
Speaker 1: it was that same thing. It was like I saw
Speaker 1: an opportunity that you know, I felt like me being
Speaker 1: an athlete and wanting to work in sports business. Even
Speaker 1: prior to me playing professional football, there was no value
Speaker 1: add from the fact that I was an athlete. There
Speaker 1: was nothing to say like, well, what about your experience
Speaker 1: makes it special here? And so I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to create that. I'm gon have to create
Speaker 1: a way to value the expertise of somebody who was
Speaker 1: seeing this from the ground level, um, and build a
Speaker 1: company that way, you know. And and so that's what
Speaker 1: originally got me there, And as you would imagine, it
Speaker 1: was a long road of slowly putting the pieces together
Speaker 1: to get to where we are today. And I'm glad
Speaker 1: you said that, because you know, we've heard these horror
Speaker 1: stories of athletes who you know, make a bunch of
Speaker 1: money and then they got boys who want to start
Speaker 1: businesses and investing a whole bunch of real estate that
Speaker 1: don't get scoped out and do no due diligence and
Speaker 1: you know, rim shops and the whole thing. Um, So
Speaker 1: can you talk about how in you from your perspective
Speaker 1: how athletes are getting smarter, or maybe it's the people
Speaker 1: around them, so that they're making better decisions with their
Speaker 1: their capital and to deploy that for actual wealth generation
Speaker 1: when they're off the field. I think the norm has changed,
Speaker 1: and I think you know that that was always even
Speaker 1: my goal with what I was doing. I wanted to,
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully show other people that may be in
Speaker 1: a similar situation of mind to be like, well, if
Speaker 1: he can do that with his resources, or he can
Speaker 1: do that with his stature of like profile of athletes,
Speaker 1: imagine what I could do with mine, right, And I
Speaker 1: think you see in the shift where before it was
Speaker 1: we want our athletes just to be athletes. We want
Speaker 1: them to focus on football, focus on basketball, focus on baseball,
Speaker 1: track boxing, whatever it is, and that's what we That
Speaker 1: is the norm, and anybody who does anything outside of
Speaker 1: that was looked at sideways. Where I think now in
Speaker 1: this age of more than an athlete and a lot
Speaker 1: of the work that has been done and shown by
Speaker 1: athletes from them being activists, then being investors, then going
Speaker 1: back to school and all these things. Now you look
Speaker 1: at an athlete that only does their sport and you
Speaker 1: kind of look at them sideways, like, yo, what are
Speaker 1: you waiting on? You better get going. This window is closing.
Speaker 1: And I think you know that kind of maturation of
Speaker 1: what the norm is for an athlete has shifted a
Speaker 1: lot of things. Uh, for the industry. What's making the
Speaker 1: norm change? Is it just representation to people like you?
Speaker 1: I think everything develops. I think everything people get smarter
Speaker 1: in any scenario. So if you look at me right like,
Speaker 1: I think people sometimes think, oh man, this is a
Speaker 1: really smart guy because he was able to do certain things.
Speaker 1: And I am smart. I do believe that. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, I come from a family of athletes.
Speaker 1: I'm a third generation athlete, right. My My grandfather was
Speaker 1: a was a boxer. My dad played Division one football
Speaker 1: and sign D one. My older brother played ten years
Speaker 1: in the National Football and I got cousins. And so
Speaker 1: I've seen those horror stories you talked about. I've seen
Speaker 1: them up close and personal. And I always approached sport
Speaker 1: like a business, right, And I've seen where sport could
Speaker 1: use somebody up and there's nothing to show for it,
Speaker 1: you know. And so for me, when I went through
Speaker 1: my experience, it was like, well, I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 1: This way, and because I've seen somebody else make mistakes,
Speaker 1: I can kind of take those answers to the test
Speaker 1: and read crafted for myself and I think for everybody
Speaker 1: else it's much of the same. And now when you
Speaker 1: look at your peers, um, you can see the benefit
Speaker 1: of it. Like my goal after five years of playing,
Speaker 1: I'm coming up on five years of after retirement, I
Speaker 1: wanted to I wanted people to know me and not
Speaker 1: know that I played professional football. That was a goal
Speaker 1: that I had when I retired, you know. And it's
Speaker 1: really cool now for people to say that and see like,
Speaker 1: oh man, I didn't know he played in the NFL.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, right. That's because I'm hitting that goal. And
Speaker 1: I think for other players, they see that and they
Speaker 1: build upon it, right, And it's like what I want
Speaker 1: to be known for, something more than what people are
Speaker 1: defining or is my skill set or what people may
Speaker 1: have known before the start. The institutions around athletes when
Speaker 1: they come in the league young, um, and we've heard,
Speaker 1: you know, horror stories around like you know, player associations,
Speaker 1: and they weren't always set up to help people thrive
Speaker 1: outside of the field, outside of the court. Are they
Speaker 1: are player associations in your experience across all major sports,
Speaker 1: are they what's happening for them to do better to
Speaker 1: protect and help educate those young athletes who come in
Speaker 1: with little financial experience often and little, you know, familiar
Speaker 1: resources to protect them. Man, that's a great question. I think.
Speaker 1: I think more can always be done, right, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, as an athletes get smarter
Speaker 1: as the game changes, and right now it's the wild,
Speaker 1: wild West, man. I mean, you've got college athletes making
Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars in I l right, and
Speaker 1: signing for deals that you know, quite frankly, I barely
Speaker 1: made as a professional athlete, you know, And so it's
Speaker 1: happened earlier and earlier in the process. And so players
Speaker 1: associations or um anything set up to aid in an
Speaker 1: athletes development, they they have a lot of work to
Speaker 1: do to kind of catch up. And in that process,
Speaker 1: you know, I think for for young athletes, I always
Speaker 1: tell them they men, take your time. It took a
Speaker 1: very long time for you to make your money. I know,
Speaker 1: it seems like a nineteen or twenty two or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, the money came fast, but this is a
Speaker 1: lifelong process. You started playing basketball or football when you
Speaker 1: were eight years old. That's that's a that's a decade,
Speaker 1: you know, And so it would be silly to not
Speaker 1: try to put that same kind of work in how
Speaker 1: you should deploy that capital, how you should protect that capital, um,
Speaker 1: how you should spend that capital, or where you should
Speaker 1: develop your skills outside of it, to make sure you're
Speaker 1: making the most out of that capital or that opportunity.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, in sports, athletes are opportunities because they have
Speaker 1: the least amount of experience, um, but they have the
Speaker 1: most amount of money. And if you've ever tried to
Speaker 1: convince anybody to give you money, it's a hard process.
Speaker 1: And the easiest people to convince to give you money
Speaker 1: are people that don't know much as much about the
Speaker 1: value or haven't had the experience um of understanding how
Speaker 1: hard it really was for them to get that. And
Speaker 1: so to your point, there should be more up protection
Speaker 1: coming from people that are in this space, especially for
Speaker 1: a lot of the kids, like I said, that come
Speaker 1: from our communities, are black and brown faces that don't
Speaker 1: come from a lot of finances, you know. I think
Speaker 1: more things should be in place not only to protect
Speaker 1: but also teaching mature and and not make them choices.
Speaker 1: And it's tough to make people with a lot of
Speaker 1: money do certain things. But at the same time, it's
Speaker 1: so important in the overall and and longevity of their
Speaker 1: development and their protection of this incredible opportunity that is
Speaker 1: playing professional sports. Yeah. I mean I love that answer, UM,
Speaker 1: because I was I was gonna ask this question. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna ask it, but you just gave me a little
Speaker 1: slight twist to the question I'm gonna ask, um, because
Speaker 1: you've got this diamond list of investors who who put
Speaker 1: money in your own business, people like lebron Naomi Osaka
Speaker 1: Drake and Jimmy Ame av Carter, many many more. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's an all star list of investors. UM. And
Speaker 1: I would imagine because we have this conversation, the these
Speaker 1: people are more than just deep pockets, but there's some
Speaker 1: other use that they provide to the business. Because you
Speaker 1: can probably get money in a lot of places, but
Speaker 1: you want specific help. UM. So can you talk about
Speaker 1: how they may or may not be involved and helpful
Speaker 1: to the company into your mission? Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think they're they've been paramount to to the success is
Speaker 1: not only my company, I would even say me professionally
Speaker 1: a lot of those names because you know, like you said,
Speaker 1: these are people that are respected, um, business wise, and
Speaker 1: the moves they make and the things that they put
Speaker 1: their money and support behind, and so that standard approval
Speaker 1: that that carries weight when you're going into certain rooms,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, we had venture capital firms or
Speaker 1: investors or companies that we've tried to partner with early
Speaker 1: on that laughs out of the room, that are now
Speaker 1: sending us emails once a week trying to talk to
Speaker 1: us merely off the fact of who's involved now, and
Speaker 1: I want to chase what they're getting into because those
Speaker 1: people are successful, you know. And I think we were
Speaker 1: very tactical and strategic and in that way, um of
Speaker 1: just how we kind of approached them and understood how
Speaker 1: do you make one plus one equal three? How do
Speaker 1: you understand what people like that are looking where they're
Speaker 1: looking to go, and how you can aid in that thing.
Speaker 1: And again we are definitely the benefactors in that relationship. Um,
Speaker 1: But these are people that I've worked with for uh
Speaker 1: for years, and I think the reputation that that I
Speaker 1: had with them went a long way, and once it
Speaker 1: was time to do our thing, and we had an
Speaker 1: offering I didn't they didn't have. They didn't question, which
Speaker 1: is a big thing when you're investing, is well, how
Speaker 1: do you work? How how much time are you gonna
Speaker 1: put in? How serious are you? Because of what I
Speaker 1: had done for them and in those moments, in my
Speaker 1: previous um work responsibilities, that was out the gate. So
Speaker 1: now we could just look at the opportunity, and the
Speaker 1: opportunity in and of itself speaks for itself. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: let's talk about that because I'm interested, because there are
Speaker 1: so many people who would love to have and see
Speaker 1: strategically strategic reasons why a Drake on their cap table
Speaker 1: makes sense or nay, only so I can make sense
Speaker 1: for them. How do you position yourself to be successful
Speaker 1: when you're trying to approach a celebrity investor? If you're
Speaker 1: not a good question, If you're not, Um, how do
Speaker 1: you that's a good question, I would say, and I
Speaker 1: kind of alluded to it, the one, the one plus
Speaker 1: one equal in three. Right. Not every celebrity is going
Speaker 1: to be good for your business. Um, Not every celebrity
Speaker 1: is gonna be good for your business. Not every celebrity
Speaker 1: is gonna make sense for your business and and and
Speaker 1: vice versa. You're not gonna make sense for them, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, as all stars are roster is. We've had
Speaker 1: celebrities tell us no, not my thing. I'm good right,
Speaker 1: even though we see the strategic value, UM So, I
Speaker 1: think it's understanding and being very self aware in that
Speaker 1: way of how exactly this equation is going to come
Speaker 1: together and to your point, like making sure the value
Speaker 1: of whatever you're looking to get matches up well with
Speaker 1: what you already already have. We didn't approach any of
Speaker 1: those names first. They weren't the first people we went to,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think a lot of times when
Speaker 1: you're approaching people of of of high name value, there
Speaker 1: has to be an offering like their their name means something,
Speaker 1: and I think that's why you approach them in the
Speaker 1: first place. And so whatever the scenario is, the situation
Speaker 1: is that the opportunity is it has to make sense
Speaker 1: for where they are. And we were able to get
Speaker 1: some already really good investors. They didn't have to take
Speaker 1: on a brunt of um the public value and their
Speaker 1: namesake to just carry the company solely on their backs.
Speaker 1: And I think that matters you know, um, so it
Speaker 1: was I think it was getting the offering right first
Speaker 1: before we approached them was probably the best thing we
Speaker 1: could do. And in that it was the opportunity for
Speaker 1: you know, getting an NFL license. We had that opportunity
Speaker 1: coming up lined up, chasing it. Um. You know, we
Speaker 1: had discussions with some of the platforms in the VR
Speaker 1: companies who can kind of confirm like, hey, this is
Speaker 1: a big opportunity. We had other VC firms that were
Speaker 1: that were lined up incredible in the space, and so
Speaker 1: I think all those things factored in as landing where
Speaker 1: we ultimately did you know, I love that you said,
Speaker 1: you know, there's one plus one equaling three. I remember
Speaker 1: there's an interview math Car that had done with Magic Johnson,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you saw it, but he
Speaker 1: was talking. Magic was talking about like, you know, when
Speaker 1: you bring me a deal, it's got to be a
Speaker 1: big deal because for the amount of work I gotta
Speaker 1: put in to make something go from a hundred thousand
Speaker 1: to a million, I might as well go from a
Speaker 1: million to a billion. It's the same amount of work.
Speaker 1: So the deal size has to be big enough. And
Speaker 1: so I'm equating that with how you pitched you know,
Speaker 1: pro era and like status, Like, how do you do
Speaker 1: that when you're pitching a Drake who's got you know,
Speaker 1: enough money? Or is there such thing as enough money?
Speaker 1: Who's got a lot of money? Or Lebron he's got
Speaker 1: a lot of money? And you know a couple of
Speaker 1: zeroes don't move the needle for them. So how do
Speaker 1: you pitch the grand opportunity here to people who already
Speaker 1: have all they you know, could need. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: another great question. So I would say it in this way. Um,
Speaker 1: if you called me and say, hey, I want you
Speaker 1: to do my podcast for and I'm gonna give you
Speaker 1: a dollar right now, it's a deal. Now it's I'm
Speaker 1: gonna spend a certain amount of time doing your podcasts
Speaker 1: and you're gonna give me a dollar. I'm gonna say no,
Speaker 1: right because that's that the work doesn't seem to match
Speaker 1: what the dollar amount is. It's one dollar, right, I
Speaker 1: could do other things to get a dollar. If you said, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go do this podcast with somebody else, and
Speaker 1: when I do it, I'm gonna give you a dollar.
Speaker 1: If you give me, you know, ten cents, that sounds
Speaker 1: like it's worth it because I don't got to do
Speaker 1: much work for that dollar, right, it's on you. And
Speaker 1: if I think that you're gonna do this podcast, and
Speaker 1: you've got that podcast lined up, it's scheduled and it's
Speaker 1: going no matter what, and I don't have to do
Speaker 1: my uch that that's what it means to be an investor.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times people approach the athletes
Speaker 1: or the celebrities or the big time executives wanting them
Speaker 1: to put the amount of work into their product that
Speaker 1: a founder is doing. Now, there is going to be
Speaker 1: some over the top value, but there's value already in
Speaker 1: the namesake, because that's why you're approaching them in the
Speaker 1: first place, because that dollar is not the same as
Speaker 1: their dollar because they have a name value that also
Speaker 1: unlocks a lot of opportunities for you. So that ended
Speaker 1: up itself is worth the work, and you have to
Speaker 1: be able to know, um, the process and the plan
Speaker 1: for making that work for you. So I think with
Speaker 1: me and our investors specifically and my partner Troy, who
Speaker 1: is amazing, you know, I think that we are just
Speaker 1: two guys that we come from nothing. Um, we do
Speaker 1: everything ourselves. We don't expect much like the terms of
Speaker 1: engagement are pretty straightforward. We're going to do the work,
Speaker 1: and as long as an investor I feel like understands
Speaker 1: and sees that, then they get to see the opportunity
Speaker 1: because to to the example you use with magic, there's
Speaker 1: not that level of work that goes into it. We're
Speaker 1: going to do the work, um, and the moment we
Speaker 1: need you will give you a call, but they'll know that. Man,
Speaker 1: they're calling me. It's one of its. It's a situation
Speaker 1: that's going to only multiply what the opportunity is. Can
Speaker 1: you describe the timeline you know, between your enterprise product
Speaker 1: that you license with NFL teams for their actual training
Speaker 1: and then the consumer product that will come out soon um,
Speaker 1: and then the timeline alongside when those investors came in.
Speaker 1: So did the Lebrons and Naomi os Hawkers come in
Speaker 1: when they saw your enterprise product, Oh, this is fire,
Speaker 1: we gotta get it in the Cowboys locker room, we
Speaker 1: gotta get it in the Lions Lions locker room. Or
Speaker 1: they saw you had that and then they said there's
Speaker 1: consumer play here. Can you talk about how that lined up? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say they definitely came in for the opportunity
Speaker 1: for the consumer play, but it all ties together. So
Speaker 1: we we started off on the enterprise level working with
Speaker 1: NFL teams to preparing for NFL games, and you know
Speaker 1: that that gave us a base foundation for our technology
Speaker 1: and we just kind of continue to build that because
Speaker 1: that was something we knew so and so inherently from
Speaker 1: our experience of being athletes, of knowing exactly how a
Speaker 1: receiver could get better with this technology. Troy as a quarterback,
Speaker 1: knowing how quarterback can get better. You know, I've spent
Speaker 1: time as a coach as a scout for the Detroit Lions,
Speaker 1: like understanding how the technology could help organizations. It helped
Speaker 1: us build a foundation and then as the opportunities arise,
Speaker 1: we know which way we can kind of craft and
Speaker 1: use the foundation to go on other spaces. And on
Speaker 1: the consumer play, it was essentially players would get in
Speaker 1: the headset um and they wouldn't take it off, and
Speaker 1: they were like, Yo, this is fun. And that's not
Speaker 1: a statement you hear from a player that's typically watching film.
Speaker 1: This is fun and you're learning about what you're gonna
Speaker 1: see on a Sunday. So that was like the indicator
Speaker 1: for us that we knew we had something there because
Speaker 1: of a player who sees this scenario every day and
Speaker 1: has for fifteen years. It's saying that it's like it
Speaker 1: is on Sunday and it's fun. Imagine what a consumer
Speaker 1: will will place. And then you know, after that is
Speaker 1: when we started to communicate that and started to, uh,
Speaker 1: to show what the opportunity we felt was on the
Speaker 1: consumer side. And you know, it's been years in the making.
Speaker 1: Troy and I first connected, I want to say, in twenties,
Speaker 1: sixteen or seventeen, um, and here we are in two
Speaker 1: you know, so it's been it's been that long of
Speaker 1: a process, that that long of us thinking about this craft,
Speaker 1: this letting the market do what it does, and then
Speaker 1: also relying on a little bit of luck to to
Speaker 1: put us in the right position. So when you think
Speaker 1: about gamifying things, uh, let's talk about gaming and training,
Speaker 1: you know, even at the consumer level, Like, how do
Speaker 1: you think gamifying exercise and training? You know, when I'm
Speaker 1: if you're bringing up a kid to be, you know,
Speaker 1: an all star athlete, Um, how do you imagine gamifying
Speaker 1: that experience in working out and training might evolve for time?
Speaker 1: I think it becomes second nature a little bit and
Speaker 1: and there's a reason why we continue to drilling on
Speaker 1: the fun aspect of it because you know, I view
Speaker 1: our consumers early on in our consumer product which will
Speaker 1: be coming out and fall um, they're much like I
Speaker 1: have a ten year old son who is obsessed with
Speaker 1: the game of football, naturally, because again we come from
Speaker 1: a family of football players. But I am Anyone who
Speaker 1: knows me knows I am not to push somebody to
Speaker 1: go play football and do this and do that. It's
Speaker 1: not my thing. But what happened was, you know, first,
Speaker 1: you let him have fun with it. I don't. I'm
Speaker 1: not out there making them run through drills at seven
Speaker 1: years old and making them run stadium steps to say, hey,
Speaker 1: you got a legacy. It's not that you give him
Speaker 1: a ball and you let him play catch with his
Speaker 1: dad and he enjoys playing catch with his dad, and
Speaker 1: he's having fun. And because he has fun in it,
Speaker 1: it motivates him to get better. But he's passing the
Speaker 1: time by having fun, but he's naturally becoming better at
Speaker 1: what he's doing. So I think when I look when
Speaker 1: I look at the vr XR technology and specifically what
Speaker 1: we're doing in gaming and the training opportunity is play
Speaker 1: football in my whole life, it kept me in shape.
Speaker 1: As a thirty six year old man now who is
Speaker 1: not playing football every day, it is a lot harder
Speaker 1: for me to stay in shape and the focus on
Speaker 1: actually being in shape, I would love for a way
Speaker 1: for me to have fun in doing it. And so
Speaker 1: when you think about x are and training in that
Speaker 1: opportunity and getting better if gamifying it embeds the fund
Speaker 1: right in it, and by embedding the fund that becomes
Speaker 1: the chief focus. Anytime you're having fun, that's kind of
Speaker 1: where your mind goes to and you're not thinking about
Speaker 1: the calories you're burning, You're not thinking about how you're
Speaker 1: learning the sport, you're not thinking about how you're staying
Speaker 1: fit on a day to day because the game of
Speaker 1: it all is keeping your mind occupied, and then everything
Speaker 1: else becomes a value beyond that, you know. I kind
Speaker 1: of asked the question similar to this when we talked
Speaker 1: about you know, getting a Lebron's attention or Drake's attention.
Speaker 1: But there are people who believe that their tech is
Speaker 1: good enough to get licensed by major partners, like you know,
Speaker 1: sports teams were in any category, Um, what levers do
Speaker 1: you imagine are the fastest ways to success, to getting
Speaker 1: the meeting and also being taken seriously, Like what are
Speaker 1: the in rolls for people who are not getting not
Speaker 1: hawk you know? To how do you pick up the
Speaker 1: phone and call the Detroit Lions? Like how does that have?
Speaker 1: Like what happens there? Where do I need to be?
Speaker 1: What conference we need to go to? It's tough. It's tough.
Speaker 1: I would say a lot of it is learning, um
Speaker 1: learning the industry, right. So I would love to think
Speaker 1: that my name rings so many bells I could just
Speaker 1: pick up the phone and call somebody and make it happen.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately that wasn't the case. Like I said, I started
Speaker 1: interning with the Detroit Lions and two thousand and eight
Speaker 1: I was a scouting intern right and then beyond that
Speaker 1: I went and played in the Canadian Football League. And
Speaker 1: throughout this whole process, I'm shaking hands, I'm taking meetings,
Speaker 1: I'm telling people and I get done playing. I want
Speaker 1: to do X, Y and Z in the off season.
Speaker 1: I'm building out the marketing materials for my sports agency
Speaker 1: or from my from my agents sports agency for him.
Speaker 1: I'm his marketing lead as well. I am also you
Speaker 1: know applying to Octagon's internships. I'm doing under arms internships.
Speaker 1: I'm going to intern with Maverick Carter while I'm the
Speaker 1: number one receiver for the Cleveland Browns in an off season.
Speaker 1: And it's not just in nature like I'm I'm getting coffee.
Speaker 1: I'm it's people that I'm interning with. It takes them
Speaker 1: a month and a half to know that I play
Speaker 1: in the NFL because I'm I'm doing all the things
Speaker 1: naturally that an intern would do. I'm setting those ground sticks.
Speaker 1: I'm learning. I want to see how the process works.
Speaker 1: I want to shake the hands. I want to understand
Speaker 1: this thing and come up with the plan and strategy
Speaker 1: because in this business, specifically in the sports business, you
Speaker 1: really only get one opportunity at it, right, And so
Speaker 1: it's probably not the best just to pick up the
Speaker 1: phone and call the Detroit Lions, because now they're always
Speaker 1: gonna remember you just called the Detroit Lions. You had
Speaker 1: no idea what our process was, You don't know what
Speaker 1: our KPI s are, you don't know the right people
Speaker 1: to talk to. You didn't call it the scouting office
Speaker 1: trying to get a licensing deal, right, And so I
Speaker 1: would say engrossing yourself in the area that you're looking
Speaker 1: to get into and understand that it is very hard
Speaker 1: to make those calls and get those deals, and people
Speaker 1: are gonna want to see that you are a subject
Speaker 1: matter expert in the space that you're in. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what I've spent every minute that I wasn't
Speaker 1: on the field over the last decade. That's what I've
Speaker 1: been doing, and that's what my partner has been doing
Speaker 1: as well. And I think we've benefited greatly that it
Speaker 1: was time for us to do our thing. We had
Speaker 1: a track record, we had connections. We the people we
Speaker 1: connected with ten years ago are now in a position
Speaker 1: to make decisions or put us in the right place
Speaker 1: or confidently say, Yo, you should talk to Troy, you
Speaker 1: should talk to Hawk, because I've known them in their
Speaker 1: work for ten years and what they do and what
Speaker 1: they're about, and it's at least worth hearing them out
Speaker 1: so that I'm so I'm excited about this game. I
Speaker 1: want you to talk about it a little bit, and
Speaker 1: like what makes this Metal Quest and PlayStation VR game
Speaker 1: unlike other football arcade games, Like, you know, what's the difference.
Speaker 1: I mean, besides the fact that it's NFL license, which
Speaker 1: is the big one, right, Um, I would say the
Speaker 1: insights from it. I mean this is this is a
Speaker 1: direct brainch out of me and my partner, and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, with the things I do creatively or the
Speaker 1: things that I'm into creatively, I want that extra level
Speaker 1: of authenticity to it, you know, Like I want to
Speaker 1: see the film about Detroit from a Detroit director. I
Speaker 1: want somebody who is in there giving me that film, right,
Speaker 1: I want to see all those things. And in gaming
Speaker 1: and in sports specifically, that's what we were after. This
Speaker 1: is our life. This is I'm trying to explain. I remember,
Speaker 1: like the very first one we're pitching it, I'm telling
Speaker 1: people about what it feels like to walk out of
Speaker 1: a tunnel. It's one of the coolest experiences I've ever
Speaker 1: had as an athlete, is coming out to seventy thousand
Speaker 1: screaming fans, and in our game, we have the opportunity
Speaker 1: to bring that to life and show somebody that. And
Speaker 1: that's just the tip of the iceberg. So I think
Speaker 1: the little things like that that we're we're giving you
Speaker 1: real insights from things we've experienced and putting them in
Speaker 1: creatively are the things that will make it different. Our
Speaker 1: company in and of itself. I mean we are I
Speaker 1: think roughly forty five now, um, and of the forty five,
Speaker 1: I think twenty one of them are former athletes college
Speaker 1: are pro And that's from the systems engineer to the
Speaker 1: creative designer on the game, to the marketing to the
Speaker 1: business dad. I mean, it's permeated throughout the company. And
Speaker 1: the reason for that is we thought, like, yo, if
Speaker 1: we can typically athletes don't have a voice in sports anything,
Speaker 1: especially sports gaming anywhere. But imagine if we had that
Speaker 1: insight as well as the experts of gamers as well
Speaker 1: as the engineering expertise, as well as the marketing of
Speaker 1: all these places in one room where everyone has a voice,
Speaker 1: we can create something that is above the status quo.
Speaker 1: That was the whole impetus around the company, and I
Speaker 1: think in our experience that's what's going to make the
Speaker 1: difference and what people will feel when they take the
Speaker 1: headset off and say, dang, I do feel like I
Speaker 1: know what it's like to be in an NFL game now, right,
Speaker 1: And I mean that's that's our ultimate goal. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm interested, you know, because you've played at the professional
Speaker 1: level and how much on field tech there is, Like
Speaker 1: we see and we've heard, you know, they may mike
Speaker 1: somebody up, and so now we get the experience on
Speaker 1: hearing what it sounds like, you know, when you're on
Speaker 1: the field or on the court, but from the stuff
Speaker 1: that the fan will never see or may never see,
Speaker 1: how much like actual on your body and on field
Speaker 1: technology is happening to you know, measure how fast somebody
Speaker 1: is running or where they are on the field, or
Speaker 1: like what's happening that we don't get the chance to
Speaker 1: be exposed to. Yeah, there's a lot going on. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of prototyping. There's a lot of testing that
Speaker 1: that goes on in both a practice and the game environment. Um,
Speaker 1: the NFL is pretty innovative, I mean professional sports, NBA is,
Speaker 1: I mean they're extremely innovative as well. So and it's
Speaker 1: funny like that's kind of how I got my first
Speaker 1: foray in the tech. UM. I would consult while I
Speaker 1: was playing for sports analytics companies that would create this
Speaker 1: incredible tech, you know, but it was always a gap
Speaker 1: between the tech and the people who are applying it,
Speaker 1: meaning the coaches who are you know, it's just a
Speaker 1: very different world. They use a rabbit's foot more than
Speaker 1: they would use analytics in a game like this is
Speaker 1: my lucky underwear. That's what they use in the game environment, right,
Speaker 1: And so I would approach it like, okay, I can
Speaker 1: act as a bridge between understanding the technology and the
Speaker 1: people applying it. And I mean there is chips that
Speaker 1: every NFL player wears that measures their x y coordinates
Speaker 1: of where they are in the field, how fast they
Speaker 1: move their force from left to right, from right to left.
Speaker 1: I mean in a practice environment, we wear the same
Speaker 1: the same thing. There is cameras that also just are
Speaker 1: taking that footage and also gathering all that data. There
Speaker 1: is obviously the ability to do even more from a
Speaker 1: technology standpoint, but you want to make sure that the
Speaker 1: rules are still in place and uh fans are able
Speaker 1: to experience whatever it is they're doing. So all the
Speaker 1: things that they're testing and doing, even though they're not public,
Speaker 1: they will be eventually. It's just a slow rollout um
Speaker 1: for which acts actually possible. And I think that's the
Speaker 1: cool thing about what we're doing is because we do
Speaker 1: call ourselves the future of the field, because we're combining
Speaker 1: a lot of those things and again giving it to
Speaker 1: a fan. Um. That and that's a really cool thing.
Speaker 1: So when you're saying like there's chips on players, I mean,
Speaker 1: are you saying like glorified like Apple air tags or
Speaker 1: tiles are on players to measure these things. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: r f I D chips. Every player in their shoulder
Speaker 1: pads has a a dime sized chip that measures where
Speaker 1: they are at all times on the field. Um, and
Speaker 1: the speed of it. And you can take that data.
Speaker 1: And originally how we start as a company is we
Speaker 1: had access to that day there and just in the
Speaker 1: data alone, we were able to create three D simulated plays.
Speaker 1: So we didn't need any video, We didn't need to
Speaker 1: see what happened because we could just get the data
Speaker 1: from those chips and tell you exactly what's happening on
Speaker 1: the play. Wow, that's pretty cool. Um, how do you
Speaker 1: because you're doing you know media now, which I think
Speaker 1: is really interesting. You're a great social media presence. How
Speaker 1: are you leveraging media for business success? Because I imagine
Speaker 1: that may be a play because when Lebron moved to
Speaker 1: l A, people were talking about you know this is
Speaker 1: you know, he's on the downside of his career. So
Speaker 1: l A is a smart move because he wants to
Speaker 1: be a media and TV so it wasn't just an
Speaker 1: athletic decision. So I'm interested in the decisions you make
Speaker 1: and being on making TV shows or or online internet
Speaker 1: web shows. What's the play for an athlete like yourself
Speaker 1: and what are you shooting for? If I can just
Speaker 1: say it, yeah, I love that. So I think two
Speaker 1: part number one. What I'm doing now has always been
Speaker 1: my goal since I've been a kid. I wanted to
Speaker 1: do business. Um. I wanted to do business in an
Speaker 1: area that I felt like I was an expert at
Speaker 1: and that I knew more than anybody else. And I
Speaker 1: feel like sports is that thing. Um. So when I retired,
Speaker 1: I actually wasn't going to go in the media. My
Speaker 1: older brother went in the media. I wasn't really into it.
Speaker 1: Um At the time. There was a specific formula you
Speaker 1: had to follow to get an opportunity. You had to
Speaker 1: speak a certain way, look a certain way, do a
Speaker 1: certain thing. And not that I'm not a chamellion and
Speaker 1: I can't do that. I just didn't really have the
Speaker 1: energy that if I want to be one way one day,
Speaker 1: I wanted the ability to do that, so I wasn't
Speaker 1: going in the media um. When I retired, I walked
Speaker 1: right in to start working with Maverick Carter after having
Speaker 1: intern for them while I was playing, and an opportunity
Speaker 1: came along, and he was the one that was like, YO,
Speaker 1: you should do it because as someone who was knows
Speaker 1: a lot of former athletes, and I've gone through this
Speaker 1: with a lot of people, you might like it and
Speaker 1: you might be good at it, and ultimately it also
Speaker 1: helps you keep a face card, which is important when
Speaker 1: you're trying to make business move, which I know you
Speaker 1: inevitably want to do. So while I was playing in
Speaker 1: the NFL, I would take I would give game jerseys
Speaker 1: every year after the season and I would sign them
Speaker 1: and I would write handwritten letters to people that I
Speaker 1: wanted to connect with or that I was impressed by,
Speaker 1: and I would send it to him in the mail
Speaker 1: with an email like, YO, if you ever want to
Speaker 1: get coffee, let me know. And that was a networking
Speaker 1: thing for me because I thought I knew people thought
Speaker 1: it was cool. But you know, there's only two people
Speaker 1: that can say to the start receivers for the Cleveland Browns,
Speaker 1: just thirty thousand people that can say they're former players, right,
Speaker 1: So I'm like, well, let me do this now so
Speaker 1: that they'll remember when I was at my height where
Speaker 1: my mind was that and so when I need them
Speaker 1: and they're at their height, you know they'll they'll keep
Speaker 1: that relationship going. So I was doing that, and then
Speaker 1: the media thing for me, it was like, well, that
Speaker 1: gave me that same kind of face card. Right, It's
Speaker 1: cool to get an email from someone you've seen on
Speaker 1: television or when we're in a meeting and I might
Speaker 1: be on the background somewhere. That helps me at least
Speaker 1: get an email back. So even if I'm asking for
Speaker 1: something or I'm trying to do a deal, and even
Speaker 1: if it's a no, a fast no, it's helpful to me.
Speaker 1: You woul at least get me that courtesy because I
Speaker 1: have a certain face card to it. And so that's
Speaker 1: what my my my original goal around media was to
Speaker 1: use it to benefit my business career. And what I'm
Speaker 1: what we're doing now is that is pro um and
Speaker 1: I still think that's the same thing. And in that
Speaker 1: I just kind of made the decision that I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna be me wherever I decide that is from a
Speaker 1: media standpoint, eventually it will again just be projects that
Speaker 1: are close to my heart. Um that I think there's
Speaker 1: a need for that, I think there's a space for
Speaker 1: and that ultimately I never wanted to get into the
Speaker 1: media side of things too. Have to hang on it
Speaker 1: solely and completely. As a football player, you are hired
Speaker 1: and fired very very frequently, and you have no say
Speaker 1: so when your family picks up and moves. And so
Speaker 1: when I got into the media side, I was just
Speaker 1: very adamant that I didn't want that career to be
Speaker 1: that way. I wanted to have the freedom to say
Speaker 1: and do what I wanted when I wanted um, And
Speaker 1: so I passed up on a lot of great deals
Speaker 1: media wise because I don't want to get into the
Speaker 1: rat race of Hey, we love you today, tomorrow we
Speaker 1: don't like you anymore. Now you don't have a job,
Speaker 1: right So, UM, I want to dig one level deeper
Speaker 1: before we get out of here. And is you mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier that you know a dollar from Lebron James is
Speaker 1: not just a dollar because his name has value and
Speaker 1: that thing there I want to equate to what you
Speaker 1: just talked about with media and how you're leveraging that
Speaker 1: for a business success outside of media. There are so
Speaker 1: many folks who are building businesses, um, and it's all
Speaker 1: really comes down to storytelling. There's so many folks who
Speaker 1: are building businesses that if they could figure out how
Speaker 1: to leverage stories and personalities in social in on stage,
Speaker 1: in front of people, etcetera, um, that could help their business.
Speaker 1: And so if you could leave us with some wisdom
Speaker 1: on how people who might be funny, who might be
Speaker 1: good looking, who might be what charismatic, how they should
Speaker 1: see that as a value or find that value to
Speaker 1: add that to the puzzle of building a successful company. Absolutely, man,
Speaker 1: I think you you kind of nailed it right. Like
Speaker 1: you have to use all those things that are at
Speaker 1: your disposal um to get to where you are. And
Speaker 1: a lot of time, especially earlier on your company, is
Speaker 1: you that there there they are various anonymous people are
Speaker 1: going to follow those things. Or it's like an artist
Speaker 1: when you when you find an artist nobody has heard about,
Speaker 1: you like their story and you like where they come from.
Speaker 1: You right where they represent. You're telling everybody about the artists.
Speaker 1: You gotta check you gotta check her out, man, She's amazing,
Speaker 1: right or whatever that is. And eventually they hit mainstream
Speaker 1: and you know you, you probably are now looking for
Speaker 1: the next one. Right. Businesses are the same way. Right,
Speaker 1: They want to they want to connect with you and
Speaker 1: your story Number one. UM, but using your talents to
Speaker 1: hit those pillars are super important. I say for businesses,
Speaker 1: there's three things that you gotta hit UM to make
Speaker 1: yourself a home run. Number one is it do you
Speaker 1: have an incredible product? Is your product better than everybody else's? Right?
Speaker 1: Do you have something that is just a home run
Speaker 1: of a product that s aggress Number one? Number two
Speaker 1: is do you have an ability to get the deals done?
Speaker 1: And we've talked about all these things on this podcast
Speaker 1: so far, is do you understand the industry that you're in?
Speaker 1: Can you make those calls? Do you know the right
Speaker 1: people to talk to to keep continue to push that
Speaker 1: ball down the court because those things are important in
Speaker 1: those deals. And number three is your ability to amplify.
Speaker 1: Do you have an ability that when you say something,
Speaker 1: get it out in front of people right, because then
Speaker 1: those people are gonna follow the check marks of is
Speaker 1: your product great? And some people can be successful with
Speaker 1: two of those things. You've seen people with terrible products,
Speaker 1: but they got the right investors and the right amplication
Speaker 1: and they got the right deals. You see people with
Speaker 1: great deals, great product and nobody to amplify it, but
Speaker 1: eventually it bubbles up. If you have one of three,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be tough. You need at least two or three.
Speaker 1: And if you have three or three, you got the
Speaker 1: home running. When you use your talents for whether you're
Speaker 1: good looking, whether you have other talents, whether you're money
Speaker 1: to push through your product, that helps you in the
Speaker 1: amplification side of things. And it's a very davery important
Speaker 1: important pillar and that kind of determines its speed. I
Speaker 1: wish you scale or becomes ubiquitous. Black Tech Green Money
Speaker 1: is a production to Blackvity, afro Tech on the Black
Speaker 1: Effect podcast Network and I Hired Media. Is produced by
Speaker 1: Morgan Davon and me Well Lucas, with additional production supported
Speaker 1: by Love Beach and Rusa Lewis. Special thank you to
Speaker 1: Michael Davis, Jermaine hall if ne'ss Serrano. Learn more about
Speaker 1: my guests and other tective shoppers and innovators at afro
Speaker 1: tech dot com. The video version of this episode will
Speaker 1: drop the Black Tech Green Money on YouTube next week,
Speaker 1: So tap in enjoining black tech, green money. Leave us
Speaker 1: a five star rating on iTunes, Go get your money.
Speaker 1: Peace of Love a A A