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Speaker 1: The Armstrong and Getty show. The potential for escalation is

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Speaker 1: still very powerful on the Russian side. I had a

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Speaker 1: conversation with a couple of European differmass this weekend. There

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Speaker 1: are real concerns that they use one and possibly two

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Speaker 1: tactical nuclear weapons in the course of the next couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks within Ukraine, specifically targeted at those military supply lies,

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Speaker 1: and part of the reason he'd be willing to go there.

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Speaker 1: According to The New York Times in their article yesterday,

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Speaker 1: some military institute that studies these sorts of things said,

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Speaker 1: we're at a bloody stalemate. He's rue his country is

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Speaker 1: ruined financially and it is not coming back as long

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Speaker 1: as he's the leader of it. Not a chance. So

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Speaker 1: he's backed into a corner. He is the wounded animal

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Speaker 1: in a corner. Let's discuss with Major Mike Lions, retired

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Speaker 1: from the United States Military, where he served with distinction.

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Speaker 1: Respected analyst for a number of broadcast and cable networks. Mike,

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Speaker 1: how are you, sir? Taken morning? Guys, great to be

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Speaker 1: back tour. I think, hey, before we get to the

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Speaker 1: question of tactical nukes, can you describe for us what

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Speaker 1: you see as the situation in Ukraine, I mean the

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Speaker 1: it seems to be an all out barbaric slaughter the

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Speaker 1: likes of which we haven't seen in many many generations,

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Speaker 1: have no question, and the Ukraine military has now resorted

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Speaker 1: to guerrilla tactics. Um. The days of maneuver are over.

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Speaker 1: The Russians are digging their tanks in and defensive positions,

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Speaker 1: what it's called the hasty defense. Um. The Ukraine military

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Speaker 1: is deploying small units of eight to ten individuals. They're

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Speaker 1: loaded with javelins and stingers and all kinds of things

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Speaker 1: and creating havoc in guerrilla warfare style. Um, it's completely

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Speaker 1: a stalemate on the ground. Conventionally, it just goes to

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Speaker 1: show you that, you know, the military is and extension

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Speaker 1: of foreign policy looking to accomplish aims that diplomacy couldn't.

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Speaker 1: But at this point it doesn't look like that's happening,

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Speaker 1: and so there's not much more I don't think the

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Speaker 1: military to do on the ground conventionally just happens what

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Speaker 1: comes from the air and what the strategic weapons are

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Speaker 1: going to do. And it's going to continue to be

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Speaker 1: a pounding situation right now. I think the Ukraine military

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Speaker 1: is going to go after artillery units, um, those local

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Speaker 1: units that can affect the situation, but they don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of say in what comes from the sky.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I was gonna ask, is there anything

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Speaker 1: they can do about those missiles that come in and

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Speaker 1: take out the schools or apartment buildings or a mall

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Speaker 1: today in Keith? Is there any weapon that we can

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Speaker 1: give them or anything to do anything about that. So

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Speaker 1: they're trying. There's that's where those Essay three hundreds or

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Speaker 1: the Patriot missiles can do that. And and it's there

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Speaker 1: they're deploying the hypersonic missiles, which are much more difficult

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Speaker 1: for us to intercept them. But it's feels very difficult

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Speaker 1: to shoot a missile out of the sky. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of hitting the bullet that's going very fast, and

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Speaker 1: those hypersonic missiles go expused out, So it's it's very

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Speaker 1: difficult to do that. Now, the question is it's they

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Speaker 1: have some Essay three hundreds there they have been deployed.

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Speaker 1: It's the reason why the airspace is contested over Ukraine. However,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how we're going to get more in

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Speaker 1: and those they just don't. You just can't roll them

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Speaker 1: across the border. And all those systems also come with

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Speaker 1: radar equipment and fire direction centers and crews, and they

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Speaker 1: have to be deployed as well. The worst possible thing

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Speaker 1: happens is if the Ukraine military gets some of this equipment,

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Speaker 1: like let's say the US Patriot missile battery for example,

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Speaker 1: and not sure how it goes, they could potentially shoot

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Speaker 1: a Ukraine aircraft out of the sky. So it is

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Speaker 1: um these are strategic, challenging, crew served weapons that are

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Speaker 1: just not easy to get into country right now. So

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Speaker 1: on the clip that we played just a little bit ago,

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Speaker 1: the idea of Putin using one to two tactical nukes

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Speaker 1: over the next couple of weeks. What the heck is

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Speaker 1: a tactical nuke? What would it do if he used one?

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Speaker 1: And what do you think the reaction of NATO or

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Speaker 1: the United States would be. So tactical nuke is defined

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Speaker 1: by delivery mechanism, and in this case it would be

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Speaker 1: likely artillery round um that is approximately anywhere from twenty

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Speaker 1: miles away and it has a low kiloton yieldage that

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Speaker 1: that doesn't replicate anything that we saw, for example in

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Speaker 1: Hiroshima or or or the like. But it could cause

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Speaker 1: enough damage where it um you know, it multiplies the

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Speaker 1: impact of a normal artillery battery, so uh. Plus it

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Speaker 1: leads radiation, It leads that there's a you know, the

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Speaker 1: cloud that goes with it. There, there's it is a

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Speaker 1: high bank for your buck type weapons system. We have

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Speaker 1: tactical nukes on our side as well. Um, we deploy

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Speaker 1: them as something I was in charge of when I

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Speaker 1: was in the military, um full time, and it they're

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Speaker 1: highly effective and they're used in most cases in the

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Speaker 1: defense to to kind of stop an enemy from coming

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Speaker 1: through something. Now to use them offensively is um something

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Speaker 1: that we don't we would do doctrinally. But if they're

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Speaker 1: going to do it, if all they'll do is cause

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Speaker 1: tremendous destruction, because any sing within you know, let's say

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Speaker 1: five square miles, six square miles, maybe even ten square

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Speaker 1: miles will be completely obliterated. Really, anything within ten square

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Speaker 1: miles would be completely obliterated. Wow. Well, it certainly seems

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Speaker 1: to us that Putin has shown zero hesitation to slaughter

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Speaker 1: civilian populations. Are we just being naive about the way

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Speaker 1: most warfare unfolds or is this particularly callous. I think

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Speaker 1: this is warfare, and this is just something we haven't

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Speaker 1: seen since World War Two because the world has been

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Speaker 1: peaceful since then and m and in some ways it's

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Speaker 1: still happening only on a regional scale. It's not we

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Speaker 1: don't see millions of people killed yet at this point,

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Speaker 1: I know, I'm trying to keep this in perspective, but

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Speaker 1: Russia is a country that lost twenty million people during

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Speaker 1: World War two, and and so we just we're not

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Speaker 1: used to it. We're not used to seeing it. And

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Speaker 1: then it's unfolding on television every night, it's unfolding in

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Speaker 1: TikTok videos, that's unfolding out there. Uh. And it's obviously

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Speaker 1: very personalized to a lot of us. But this is

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Speaker 1: the competive, the capabilities that these sides have have and

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Speaker 1: they can do but I don't. There's nothing, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure still what we could do to stop it on

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Speaker 1: the other side right now as well. Um, we can't

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Speaker 1: find Latimer Prutin, we can't bomb him. That there's an

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Speaker 1: expression about you know, bombing for example. You can vombit,

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Speaker 1: you can do everything you want, but it's still at

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Speaker 1: some point you have to hold it and Russia is

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Speaker 1: not going to be able to proving to be holding

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Speaker 1: the ground in Ukraine that they currently have. So back

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Speaker 1: to the tactical nukes thing. The other question I had

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Speaker 1: was what do you think the reaction would be by

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Speaker 1: NATO if he if he crossed that line into using nukes.

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Speaker 1: I still don't think that's the red line. The red

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Speaker 1: line remains the border. The red lines the border if

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Speaker 1: if he decides so. I think he's concerned about by accident,

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Speaker 1: shooting a cruise missile over across the border into those

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Speaker 1: supply lines into Poland, into Romania. I think that is

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Speaker 1: the that's the red line. But inside of the sandbox

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Speaker 1: of Ukraine right now is as harsh as it sounds.

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Speaker 1: Um NATOS still will not respond because what what's the response?

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Speaker 1: There's no there's nothing we can do that will deter

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Speaker 1: him from doing that again, and it could also cause

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Speaker 1: him to fire that same nuclear weapon across the border.

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Speaker 1: Then then Dendom, what do you do if he decides

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Speaker 1: to go after Poland, decides to go after Romani with

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Speaker 1: a larger go to Warsaw. I mean, could you imagine

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Speaker 1: fire nuclear weapon at Warsaw. That's that's on the table. Yikes.

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Speaker 1: Major my clients on the line, Mike, my final question anyway. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I realized this is a little outside your your

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Speaker 1: your field. But um, some are are encouraging President Biden

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Speaker 1: on his trip to Poland to just go ahead, go

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Speaker 1: next door, go see Vladimir Zelenski in Kiev announced an

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Speaker 1: advanced city. American president is going to be in Kiev.

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Speaker 1: How crazy an idea is? That? It's crazy. It's on

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Speaker 1: the it's a hundred on the crazy meter. I can't

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Speaker 1: even imagineer proposed that. I mean, I can't even we

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Speaker 1: please the risk that would go with that. It's just

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Speaker 1: not worth any potential reward. Um, you know, Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: is not the spring of the chickens to be in

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Speaker 1: a situation where something had to happen and he had

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Speaker 1: to move quickly. Let's say he's not doing it. So

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Speaker 1: I know that that's not a good idea. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I you know, it's not He's not the right guy.

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Speaker 1: All the things are wrong. He's not the right guy.

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Speaker 1: That's a really dangerous place. We've got a really bad enemy.

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Speaker 1: You do the math on that, and you double underlining,

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Speaker 1: you say probability of success in that his zero. So

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Speaker 1: I think I saw that and I wasn't think Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think one on the crazy meter pretty much summarized

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Speaker 1: your view, well, said Major Mike Clients. Mike, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for the analysis. Let's talk again soon. Great, Gus,

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Speaker 1: thanks for so so. He's a military expert. That's what

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Speaker 1: he knows as well as anybody in America. That's why

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Speaker 1: we talked to him on the media public opinion question, though,

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Speaker 1: which is something I know more about. I was watching

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Speaker 1: MSNBC this morning. Joe Scarborough, who has the ear of

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Speaker 1: a lot of the Democratic Party in this country, said

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Speaker 1: there's no way Americans and Europeans put up with the

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Speaker 1: use of nukes on the European continent, and the politicians

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Speaker 1: would be pushed so hard to react to that, even

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Speaker 1: even if so even if militarily, As my clients said,

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Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? It's a bad idea, It's

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Speaker 1: not a red line, boy. I think public opinion wise, WHOA,

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Speaker 1: I think it would be huge. I could explain to

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Speaker 1: why it shouldn't be, but you know, at a certain

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Speaker 1: point that doesn't matter. It's nuclear energy is an energy source,

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Speaker 1: and those bombs are very, very different. The tactical nukes

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Speaker 1: we're talking about are very, very different from a major

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Speaker 1: nuclear weapon. Oh yeah, but how about the idea of

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Speaker 1: wiping out Imagine what those videos look like if it

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Speaker 1: completely obliterated ten square miles. What the hell would those

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Speaker 1: videos look like? Oh my god, And the public opinion

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Speaker 1: in the United States, I think would would run way

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Speaker 1: toward we need to do more. Imagine what it would

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Speaker 1: be in Europe that same journalists. You just heard Katie

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Speaker 1: Turo and I've heard David Ignatius to the Washington Post

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Speaker 1: talking about traveling around Europe. He said, you can't believe

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Speaker 1: the fever pitch of support for Ukraine there is in

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Speaker 1: Europe right now. Imagine if he uses a nuke. Well,

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Speaker 1: and I wonder what those echoes would be in Beijing

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Speaker 1: as well. As they're they're desperately and pathetically trying to

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Speaker 1: defend the indefensible, and we have some of those clips

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Speaker 1: and they'll just make you squirm in your seat. But

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Speaker 1: can you imagine if if it got even more horrific

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Speaker 1: and indefensible, what sort of recalculations might happen in Beijing?

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Speaker 1: There is I hope I never find out. I hope

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Speaker 1: we don't find out any of this stuff. But it

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Speaker 1: is not just you know, wild talk radio speculation. This

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Speaker 1: is absolutely on the table over the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: The fact that Putin decides to use a tactical nuke,

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Speaker 1: Europe says, no, you're not. And you know, we we

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Speaker 1: don't make all the decisions in NATO. NATO decides we're

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Speaker 1: responding to this full on we're at war with Russia. Now,

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Speaker 1: you do not use nukes that close to NATO countries,

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Speaker 1: and yet we're at war with the biggest nuclear power

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Speaker 1: in the world. You know, you make a good point.

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Speaker 1: Radiation floats with the wind, so that is that, that

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Speaker 1: is the red line. You have now in effect attacked

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Speaker 1: Poland for instance, or Romania or wherever. People have said

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Speaker 1: previously are still say that the likelihood of this, you know,

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Speaker 1: spreading toward the United States, I think I think they're

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Speaker 1: being way too sanguine about the idea of a full

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Speaker 1: on US versus Russia war. I hope it doesn't happen

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Speaker 1: NATO versus Russia. Please. As an American, I'm mostly worried

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Speaker 1: about the the U s angle of UM. I think

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Speaker 1: I think if Putin uses a tactical nuke and I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is completely out of my high nand I don't

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Speaker 1: know what he's thinking is, but I gotta believe that

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Speaker 1: that's like at least a fifty fifty chance over the

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Speaker 1: next couple of weeks, given how backed into a corner

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Speaker 1: he is, what are his other options? Well, this one

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do him any good. I mean, in the long term,

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Speaker 1: it would do enormous harm. But that's the problem. None

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Speaker 1: of this is doing him any good. Bombing that mall

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Speaker 1: earlier today, killing who knows how many hundreds of people

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Speaker 1: didn't do him any good. None of this is doing

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Speaker 1: him any good. He's doomed. He might as well put

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Speaker 1: a gun in his mouth today. He is over. Can

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Speaker 1: we have a vote on that one? That proposal? I

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Speaker 1: love that idea. Well, how many you know this is

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Speaker 1: getting really really grim, I realized, But it's a grim topic.

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Speaker 1: How many times do you see the situation where it's

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Speaker 1: usually a guy you know, I'm taking you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm angry at the boss, I'm angry at the family,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is they're going with me before I put

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Speaker 1: the gun in my mouth. Happens all the time. Putin

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Speaker 1: might be that guy. He just it's gonna be nukes

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Speaker 1: on the world stage. Well, yep, Graham is Right's but

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Speaker 1: completely I think one a real possibility. God dang it,

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Speaker 1: these next couple of weeks are going to be dicey.

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Speaker 1: But like you said earlier, there's there's no there's no

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Speaker 1: letting him out of the corner. He can't back down

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Speaker 1: from the guy. No, But all you can do is,

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Speaker 1: to paraphrase Winston Churchill, is to face it and deal

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Speaker 1: with it quickly. Don't turn your back because you will

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Speaker 1: double the danger. Um. So wow, we'll watch that now.

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Speaker 1: On a more inspirational note, I don't know from David Beckham,

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Speaker 1: the giant soccer star. I understand he could bend it.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't know him if he walked into the studio

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Speaker 1: and kicked me with his super powerful socker leg right

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Speaker 1: in the junk. But he did something incredibly beautiful this

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Speaker 1: past week. I want to tell you about, Okay, fantastic,

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Speaker 1: that's good stuff. I do need to talk about how

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Speaker 1: my kid uh did in that kid way. He was

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Speaker 1: pretty damaging to me, you know. And then the way

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Speaker 1: that kids are super honest, Oh no, not honest, too honest.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you got that for a bunch of other stuff,

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Speaker 1: and you can text us any thoughts on that conversation

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Speaker 1: four nine five k f tc Barn strong and yetty