1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: The skies opened here above Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The angels played 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: their harps, the choirs began singing, and Paul Schemes was 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: bequeathed to our city. 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: All right, here we go. 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 3: We've got Dayan kovid Chevitch joining us for the first 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 3: time on the show. Hopefully I nailed the pronunciation, but 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 3: he'll tell me in a moment, he writes for DK 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 3: Pittsburgh Sports and Dan, great to have you on the show. 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 3: First of all, we're very excited to dive into this article. 10 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 3: You did an insane amount of homework on the finances 11 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 3: of the Pirates. So how are you and do you 12 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 3: feel like you're capable of running this team now? 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. A couple of things to say. First, 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: hello to a couple of former buccos over there. You 15 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: don't think we don't remember who it is that we 16 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: cover over the years. And the other is I couldn't 17 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: agree more strongly about Opening Day in Cincinnati. I actually 18 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: tell the writers on my staff the only time you 19 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: ever capitalize Opening Day, the O and the D is 20 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: when you're in Cincinnati, because it's the only place where 21 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: it's an actual holiday. It's an amazing scene going up 22 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: through downtown Cincinnati into Fountain Square and all that stuff. 23 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: Just beautiful. What it is that they do, kids get 24 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: the day off school, that there's nothing like it. You 25 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: guys are going to absolutely love it. I know I'm 26 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: preaching the choir, especially with Todd there on that one 27 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: since he left through it in many years. There's just 28 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: nothing like it. Am I ready to run the team? No? 29 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: I can tell you that we went into this process 30 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: five months ago looking to try to figure out basically, 31 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, everybody's been accusing Bob Nutting and the ownership 32 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: for years, myself included of you know, profiteering, of taking 33 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: money and just you know, running off to the hills 34 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 1: with it or in his case where his ski lifts 35 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: are to the east of Pittsburgh. And so, you know, 36 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: we go into it. We're digging, We're finding these numbers, 37 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: and as of about a month ago, we start looking 38 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: at him and going, wait a second, what's going on here? 39 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: This doesn't add up at all, Like not that we 40 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: were not finding major profit margins, we weren't finding any. 41 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: And so finally, the way these things go is you 42 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: go to the team. Last, you go to whoever it 43 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: is that you're investigating last and we go to the 44 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: pirates and like, you're losing money, aren't you? Well do 45 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: dot Okay, so you're like, well, wait a second, no, 46 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: you're losing money. We've heard that you've taken not one, 47 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: not two, but three loans through MLB's m MO ability 48 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: has as a kind of a credit union. You guys 49 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: probably are aware of it. That came out of the 50 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: COVID period and there's still some teams in it. The 51 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: Braves just lost forty four million at least, you know, 52 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: that's what they put on the paper, so the like 53 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: are you in this? Are you do? And because I 54 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: don't think they wanted, they were actually more embarrassed, if 55 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: that's the right word for it, by having any law 56 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: at all. Then they were, you know, when people were 57 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: telling them that they were making a fifty sixty million 58 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: dollar profit. So that was what we put out to 59 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: everybody yesterday and to the fan base. I got to 60 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: tell you, I'm surprised the reaction has been mostly oh really, gee, 61 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: maybe we got to think about this all over again. 62 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: So it's it's a it's been a strange forty eight 63 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: hours in that regard. There's obviously some people that aren't 64 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: going to believe it, because it's hard, especially in the 65 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: current social climate, for anybody to ever admit that they're 66 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: wrong about anything. But that's kind of what's happened here, 67 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: and you know, how does it happen. There's a lot 68 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: of specifics to that. There's a lot of intricate stuff, 69 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: but i'll tell you what. The story's been out for 70 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: forty eight hours and there is nobody. There's nobody down 71 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: here at one fifteen Federal Street on the North Shore 72 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: that's that's denying it or rejecting it. And they can't 73 00:03:58,160 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: because they already confirmed it for us. 74 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 4: You said the Braves lost mine? Did you mean the 75 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 4: race just before we get on to the rest of 76 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 4: the pirates, Because the Braves are a publicly traded company, 77 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 4: and I thought it should. 78 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 3: Got it forty mil profit for twenty twenty five. 79 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: Forty Oh all right, then I have that backward in 80 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: my head here. The other thing about the Braves. You're right, 81 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: you're right, Eric, the publicly traded company. But what happens 82 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: with the Braves is they also have you guys have 83 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: been there. That whole battery park or whatever, everything that's 84 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: around the stadium is all part of their books and 85 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: part of everything else, so it gets kind of confusing 86 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: with that stuff. But yeah, I saw I saw a 87 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: set of brackets in a set of a minus. 88 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 89 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 4: No, anyway, so let's let's get back to the pirates. 90 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 4: Does this make them look inept? Does this make them 91 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 4: look like they can't run a team like because they 92 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 4: lost a few million dollars? Or are they because it'll 93 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 4: kind of get to my next question after after you 94 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 4: answer this one. 95 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: Well, it does. I think this is just me now 96 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: in this sense that here's how I see this. The 97 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: Skies opened here above Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The angels played their harps, 98 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: the choirs began singing, and Paul Skeens was bequeathed to 99 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:15,559 Speaker 1: our city. 100 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: All right. 101 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: I don't think they did anything right to get skiings. 102 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: I think thirty out of thirty general managers draft schemes, 103 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: and you can't make money, Like you can't build up 104 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: your season ticket base, you can't get your ballpark even 105 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: to sell out when Skimes is pitching. Look over the 106 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: individual numbers for their attendance figures in twenty twenty four. Sorry, 107 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: we heard from people who were coming to Pittsburgh from 108 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: other cities from sometimes from Canada, just to see him pitch. 109 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: This should be treated here in our city like a 110 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: rock concert when he pitches. Now, I know it's not 111 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: the same because you can't set the date automatically and everything, 112 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: you know, because you don't know exactly when it's going 113 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: to be his turn. But people were buying two three 114 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: games and you can't sell this out. There's such distrust 115 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: between you and the public that you can't build up revenues. 116 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: And Eric, that was the main point that we were 117 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: making in this and that I made near the end 118 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: of the piece, which is you have to build that up. 119 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: You have to build up that positivity between you and 120 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: your community, something Clint Hurdle used to refer to as 121 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: rebonding with the city that the pirates need to do. 122 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: There's no trust. There's no trust here the way there 123 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: is with the Steelers and the Penguins. There's no trust 124 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: here between the public and the pirates, and yet they 125 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: have schemes. They have to figure this out. They have 126 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: to start being honest with people. It can't be me 127 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: going in and banging down their door to find out 128 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: what's going on. 129 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 3: Ft fam Arena Club is the modern way to collect 130 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 3: cards or buy or sell, or or even grade. And 131 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: we're highlighting slab packs because this is the new way 132 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 3: to rip open a pack and get a really good card. 133 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 3: Aj But also if you're not into the card, like 134 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: I know you pulled a Bob Gibson card recently, you 135 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: can get an offer of ninety percent of the estimated 136 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: value and just accept it on the spot and give 137 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 3: it right back and maybe try again with another slab pack. 138 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 5: I ain't getting rid of my Bob Gibson autographed card. 139 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 5: Bob Gibson ain't card signing cards anytime soon, so I'm 140 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 5: keeping this one. It gets graded for you. There's no mess. 141 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 5: The only thing I wish they had bubblegum. Can they 142 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 5: virtually send me some bubble gumps cut? Other than that, 143 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 5: it's awesome. You can buy sell cards, they grate them 144 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 5: instantly for you, and physically you can also get the 145 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 5: cards if you want them. So I'm all for this. 146 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: This is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. 147 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, those cards are in your showroom in the app, 148 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 3: and then of course you can get the card physically 149 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 3: sent to you. So right now you can get twenty 150 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 3: percent off your first slab pack or card purchase by 151 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 3: going to Arena club dot com slash foul. That's Arena 152 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: club dot com slash foul code foul for twenty percent 153 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 3: off your first purchase. 154 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 6: Well, it's funny all this is coming out, like you 155 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 6: think just the regular fans like, oh, that every team's 156 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 6: got to be making money, Like what you know, they're 157 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 6: making profit this team, even the worst teams are making profit. Now, 158 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 6: my question to you is they're so in the red 159 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 6: like Bob Nutting, Like, why wouldn't he try and sell 160 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,119 Speaker 6: the team if they're not making any money? 161 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: You know? 162 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: That's actually, you know what's funny, Todd. That's actually been 163 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: the most common question that we've gotten after this, which 164 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: has surprised me a little bit because I didn't necessarily 165 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: see the link. I could get technical and I could 166 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: say something like, listen, when you buy a team, I'm sorry. 167 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: When a team is bought, one of the things that 168 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: happens invariably is that whoever buys it buys up all 169 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: your debt, so you don't really sweat it much. You know, 170 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 1: the Celtics sold yesterday for was it six point one billion? Yeah, 171 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: I guarantee you guarantee you the Celtics aren't walking away 172 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: with any debt, meaning the people who sold the team. Okay, 173 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: So on one hand, you don't sweat it much. On 174 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 1: the other hand, I'm going to share something here here 175 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: with you guys. It's more about Bob Bob nutting than 176 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: it is about the Pirates themselves. He wants to see 177 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: baseball move toward a salary cap system, okay. He wants 178 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: to see a system that's similar to what the Steelers 179 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: and the Penguins enjoy in their leagues in the NFL 180 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: and the NHL, which are both tight cap systems and 181 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: full revenue sharing. And by the way, people hear the 182 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: word salary cap and they get it wrong all the time. 183 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: A salary cap system has a ceiling as a floor. 184 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: It's automatic, you never have to say it. It also 185 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: comes with a greatly expanded revenue sharing so that everybody 186 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: can afford to be in that range whatever it is, 187 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: it's usually around twenty or thirty million, is pretty tight. 188 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: He wants that, he sees the future, especially if that 189 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: happens as being really bright. So Todd, He's got no 190 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: interest in getting out of that now when it might 191 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: just get good. You know what, I'm saying, Also, the 192 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: debt that we're talking about here, by every accounting that 193 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: we had in and what they came back with is 194 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: not something that's super serious. Is not where you go, 195 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: Oh no, I got to get rid of this, you 196 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. 197 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, I definitely follow what you're saying, and I'm gonna 198 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 4: come from a player's point of view. You buy a 199 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 4: sports team to win championships. You buy a sports team 200 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 4: to sell your stinking newspapers, which he's run other newspaper 201 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 4: companies into the ground. So if he's profitably losing money 202 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 4: for this team, it's pretty much on point from where 203 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 4: he's been. And yet somehow Bob Nutting continues to grow 204 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 4: out of these companies that he quote unquote I read 205 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 4: an article runs into the ground or gets rid of. 206 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 4: But he knows the profitable side of this. So to me, 207 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 4: you buy a sports team, how are you like You're 208 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 4: not buying it solely for a monetary gain, You're buying 209 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 4: it for the victories in the city. And then all 210 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 4: of a sudden, all of Pittsburgh wants to go to 211 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 4: Seven Springs on vacation. Because that's the pirates connection, which 212 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 4: you had mentioned before. About his ski slope. 213 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can tell you've been up there. 214 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And. 215 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 4: He's very generous to his players to be able to 216 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 4: go there for a weekend on the All Star break. 217 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 2: And anyway, that's a whole nother story of excitement. 218 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: That's actually a good one. You need to tell it 219 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: on the show someday. I'm aware of that one when 220 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: you're talking about what it is that he's looking at 221 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: from that standpoint. The number one criticism that I've had 222 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: of him, and you guys should know that, I did 223 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: an article last a column really last October, that called 224 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: for him to sell the team, just publicly. Just get 225 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: out of here, go away. Okay. The Pirates, the Pittsburgh 226 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: Baseball club, the franchise of Roberto Clemente, Willie Stargel, and 227 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: Hanness Wagner, would be better off without you as the owner. 228 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: This is one hundred and forty forty years now. We 229 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: were talking about the Reds and their tradition. Pirates aren't 230 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: far from that, Okay, one hundred and forty fourth opener 231 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: next Thursday in Miami for the Pirates. This is a 232 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: civic institution around here. This isn't some expansion club. And 233 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: to have a steward who does do exactly what you 234 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: just said there, Eric, He prioritizes something other than winning. 235 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: He prioritizes excessive caution. He is risk averse to the extreme. 236 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: And when you're linking it to his other businesses that 237 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 1: you just did, that's the commonality. It's not that they 238 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: lose money, it's not that they profiteer or anything like that. 239 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: It's that he's just afraid of his own shadow. And 240 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: when you have I'm going to say this again, you sign, 241 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: which they did to their credit. Brian Reynolds got a 242 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: big contract. Okay, Mitch Keller got a big contract. Brian Hayes, 243 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: if he can ever keep that back healthy at third base, 244 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: he also got a big contract. These guys were all retained. 245 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: These are young pieces that you want to see teams 246 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: like the Pirates retaining. They did that right. Okay, here 247 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: comes Skeens and you know what he does. He messes 248 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: up the whole vibe. He just does schemes, puts them 249 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: in a position where they go, oh, geez, this is different. 250 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: What do we do with this one? Well, I'm not 251 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: even talking about signing him. They own his rights for 252 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: six years, you know that. 253 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 2: Or five. 254 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: Actually, with the way the arbitration thing goes now, it's 255 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: that he forces them to think differently. Every year that 256 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: Schemes is here is a year that you should be 257 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: pursuing everything. Okay, because you have him here at this 258 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: crazy bargain rate. Think about what he's going to make 259 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: on the open market, right, and you should be putting 260 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: everything that you have into this. He won't. He will 261 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: spend what he seas in front of him. He won't 262 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:52,239 Speaker 1: spend further. 263 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 3: Right, And that's the thing to win in this game. 264 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 3: You need to invest in your product that has not 265 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 3: been done for such a long time. And as I 266 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 3: always like to say, it's a smack in the face 267 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 3: to your fans. They're not expecting you to do this 268 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 3: every single year. But when you tank for a long 269 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 3: period of time and you don't reinvest at that time, 270 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 3: you are going to pay the price financially. That's the 271 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 3: thing that I always find so stupid. You think you're 272 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 3: just going to wake up and the money's going to 273 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 3: come through. I know you put it in your article 274 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 3: how the Phillies are making so much more money at 275 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 3: their ballpark than the Pirates. Is their ballpark triple the 276 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 3: size of Pittsburgh. Will Pittsburgh not support the team like that? 277 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 3: I know it's a different market size, but my point 278 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 3: is if the Pirates had a powerhouse, would they not 279 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: be making much more money from the gate concessions? Jersey 280 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 3: sales go down the line. The other thing I just 281 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 3: wanted to point out is, and I loved your homework, 282 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 3: I read every morsel of it, right, I do know 283 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 3: there are also little bonuses that come through every once 284 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 3: in a while, like the sale of BAM, which got 285 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 3: each owner about fifty million dollars. Was that reinvested into 286 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 3: the team at the time. No, they could have put 287 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 3: that in the bank and freaking had an extra ten 288 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 3: million dollars a year to spend if they had their 289 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 3: losses Here The risk averse part is what's holding this 290 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 3: team back. They haven't rebuilt, you know, an instant like 291 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 3: Orioles type of playoff contender either in a division that's 292 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 3: not great. So my point is, again, how come they 293 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 3: feel like they can operate like this and just wake 294 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 3: up and it's all going to be better? Are they 295 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: waiting for a CBA to change? Because I read your 296 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 3: story and for me, I didn't feel any differently at 297 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 3: the end, I felt like, cool, this validates everything for me. 298 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: If you came out and said, oh, they're losing fifty 299 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 3: million bucks, I would have been like, whoa, whoa. I 300 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 3: got to go back and call my sources and do 301 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: my homework again. I'm like, they're basically breaking even from 302 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 3: the stuff that we know. 303 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: The one thing that I think both Todd and Eric 304 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: I'm confident can speak to. And Todd wasn't here for 305 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: very long, but he played at PNC Park. He played 306 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: at P and C Park as an opponent as well. 307 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: And when you see what the Pirates did in twenty 308 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: thirteen to twenty fifteen in their playoff years. So if 309 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: you remember the unbelievable game that we still call the 310 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: blackout because Andrew McCutcheon wanted everybody to wear black against 311 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: the Reds, You'll be hard pressed to mention any baseball 312 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: scene anywhere in North America over the last twenty years 313 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: that would top that event. Okay, it was a generational thing. 314 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: You had children bringing their grandfathers who'd never seen the 315 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: Pirates win. Okay, I'm gonna say this again. This is 316 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty four years the Pirates course through 317 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: this city's veins. 318 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: Okay, there's no. 319 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: Amount of losing even forty years of this now that 320 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: stops that. Neil Huntington, to the former GM once said 321 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: to me, he said, this just feels the whole thing 322 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: feels like this big sleeping giant here. And so there's 323 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: no doubt that in one of the smallest ballparks in 324 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: America that you will see absolute maximizing. But they haven't 325 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: made that happen. Bob Nutting hasn't made that happen. But 326 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: there's a disconnect, a divide in trust, and there's there's 327 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: people that just openly brag about how long they've been 328 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: boycotting the pirates. That's a common thing here. Oh yeah, 329 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: well I'm in my seventh year. Oh yeah, i've been. 330 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,239 Speaker 1: I haven't been there since you know, Brian Giles hit 331 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: that home run against Billy Wagner twenty five years ago. 332 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: And it's like that, that's how these conversations go. That 333 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: has to change, and the only person who's empowered to 334 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: do that is Nutting. But I'll ask you guys back, 335 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: and I actually don't have this answer. So this isn't rhetorical. 336 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: How does he do that? Because one of the things 337 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: about him is that he's under capitalized. Do you guys 338 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: talk about what he owns and you talk about newspapers. 339 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: This isn't exactly the rising stock in the business world. Okay, 340 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: where does he get that money from? Does he go 341 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: and take more loans? Does he say, you know, heck 342 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,239 Speaker 1: with it, We're just going to go into you know, 343 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: all kinds of crazy debt. Or does he do what 344 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: his actual approaches, and that is he opens up a 345 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: restaurant and he says, hey, my food kind of sucks 346 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: right now, but if you come and eat here, oh man, 347 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna get the best chef. Okay, you guys just 348 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,959 Speaker 1: have to come and eat here and eat our crappy 349 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: food more often. 350 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 2: No, that, well, that's not gonna happen. 351 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 4: And I'll tell you the only way that Bob Nutting 352 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 4: brings a championship with his with his mindset, it would 353 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 4: have to be a complete, life changing, life altering mindset. 354 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 4: The only way he brings a championship to Pittsburgh or 355 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 4: a consistent winning team selling s E L LL sell. 356 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: It has to be winning. And there's it goes even 357 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: beyond that. It can go into baseball stuff too, which 358 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: is you have to have a sense of accountability. You 359 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: have a management team here right now that has done 360 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: some really awful things, okay with a major league roster 361 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: with the drafts. Other than the guys that have been 362 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: you know, the ones coming through the clouds, you're not 363 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: you're not seeing the results that you need to see. 364 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: They fired their Latin American scouting director after seven years 365 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 1: of absolutely nothing from that part of the world. This 366 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: is stuff that people never talk about, but this is 367 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: stuff that you know, you guys mentioned some of the 368 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: better teams that that that get results, that don't have 369 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 1: as much revenues. Where do they get in that talent from. 370 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: Look at what happened in Cleveland. Cleveland's no different than Pittsburgh. 371 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: I think we can agree on that. In a market, Yeah, stadium, 372 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: whole thing right there. 373 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 3: Now, that's we asked him about it about a month ago. 374 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 3: We're like, what I saw it? 375 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 2: Terrific. 376 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: It was a terrific show. Yeah, Neil, Neil let it 377 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: all out, which is not very Neil like I saw it. 378 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: And for you know, when you look at Cleveland and 379 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: you look at the guys they're bringing up one after another, 380 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: you know, Latin American guy you know here comes a 381 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: Dominican here comes to Venezuelan. You look at the Pirates lineup. 382 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: You know how many guys they've had come out out 383 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: of the Latin America. They've made an impact in the 384 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: last ten years. I'll give you a hint. He's still 385 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: playing and he's really good. Start Martine, Well, where's from? 386 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: Cruise came from the Dodger system. Oh right, I'm talking 387 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: about guys they got. They traded out Tony Watson to 388 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: LA for him. Uh, Starling came. I actually met him 389 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: as an eighteen year old down there. I went down 390 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: there to do a story because wow, look at this kid. 391 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: You can tell right away you know the whole athletic 392 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: build and everything. Right, that's it. In ten years, I'd 393 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: say again the franchise of Clemente. You can't walk around 394 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: anywhere in Latin America without seeing Pirates hats. 395 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: You guys know that, am I right? Damn? 396 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 4: I can't, like we can keep you on for three 397 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 4: hours here because there's so much being in the organization 398 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 4: and also being part of players union that I saw. 399 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 2: You're talking about, not not building. 400 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 4: Up the d R like they put of that bad money, 401 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 4: of that of that they put this huge, beautiful campus 402 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 4: down there, so they could build Dominican Republic system that 403 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 4: would just pump out craters and they get zero players 404 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 4: out of it. 405 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: That's not an exaggeration. Zero players from there. The one 406 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: actually the one who's in the majors right now other 407 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: than Marte, I should be respectful. Here is Luis Ortiz, 408 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: who they just he's now in Cleveland. It's part of that. 409 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 2: They just shipped them Outland Cland this year. 410 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, because Cleveland, because Cleveland oneted a one of a 411 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 4: starting pitcher, which they've been elite with producing starting pitching, 412 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 4: and so they're like, oh, well here's one from the 413 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 4: pirates organization that we could just poach. 414 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is this is your point. Dan, we gotta 415 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 3: jump because we're keeping Kenny ballgame. Rosenthal waiting to but 416 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 3: this was awesome. Really appreciate this. And also to the 417 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 3: point too, is for everyone that's watching and listening right now, 418 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 3: you can get the article. You're not paying anything for it. 419 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 3: Go online and check out this article and give it 420 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 3: a good read. But the last point, we're not asking 421 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 3: them to be the Dodgers. We're asking them to be 422 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 3: the guardians. But that's what we're really learning here too, 423 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 3: is it's not impossible to do this, and even the Guardians, 424 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 3: you can definitely pick up things there too. But the 425 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 3: fact that you know the Guardians, we say, hey, they 426 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 3: should push chips in a little more when they're here. 427 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 3: Alc us here, pirates, we're still we're still in the 428 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 3: Stone Age when we're talking about what's happening. So Dan, 429 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 3: thank you so much for joining us. We'll definitely have 430 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 3: you back this season too. Okay, this was great. 431 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: All right, guys, good to see you about the old 432 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: buckos over there. Good to see you